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Don't Bow To God's Bullies

By Rev. Jim Rigby, Huffington Post. Posted June 15, 2006.


If you want to know why Americans are so frightened and why we attack anything that challenges our dominance over others, read the Bible.
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Whereas American theology was born out of a hope for democracy, much of it is wedded to a picture of Christ as a benevolent dictator. Should we be surprised that a hierarchical cosmology would produce hierarchical churches and nations? Should we be surprised that religious nations that picture Christ as a loving dictator have produced conquistadors, inquisitors and crusaders?  

What else could they produce? As the tree is, so shall be the fruit.   The word "Lord" was not in the original Bible. It is an English word from feudal times. Whereas the Greek word kurios had a range of meanings, from a title of respect to a title of leadership to a name for the sacred, the English translation "Lord" refers specifically to a male European land baron. Many people have softened that interpretation in their own minds, but in times of great stress, such nuance falls away and many Christians seek a white male king. He may be called "Pope" he may be called "the decider President," he may be called "televangelist," but the title only masks what he is, a benevolent (or not so benevolent) dictator.  

Neither Calvin nor Luther spoke English, but they helped the Popes lay the groundwork for the view of God as a cosmic dictator. From Popes, Luther and Calvin we have some of the ugliest slurs ever recorded against women, intellectuals and those who refused the church's message. How did Christians hold slaves, oppress women and slaughter nonbelievers? Perhaps they could not see Christ in non-male, non-European, and non-Christian people because they were limited by their theology. Their "Christ" was merely a glorification of the most powerful member of their own culture.  

To picture God in terms of power is also one of the great bait-and-switch gimmicks of all time. People within the power hierarchy proclaim that God is the ultimate authority, and then appoint themselves as God's interpreters and enforcers. They are God's humble bullies. It has been one of the most successful con games of all time.  

The real Jesus was born illegitimately. He called himself "the human one." Just like Buddha, his authority came from truth, not power. He taught whoever has love has God. He said those who work for the common good are his church.  

The real Jesus was an anarchist. He spent his life refusing to claim power over anyone. He said that God is understood in terms of love not power. We add nothing to the majesty of "the human one" by adding a throne or a crown. If he did not want to rule over others in life, why should he want it in death? That is why Jesus is called "lamb of God"; he spoke not as the king of the universe, but from its heart.  

If you want to know why Americans are so frightened and why we are attacking anything that would challenge our dominance over others, read the Bible. Like Cain we have murdered members of our human family. Even when we silence our victims, the ground beneath our feet cries out against us.  

Today's church lifts its arms to praise Christ wearing liturgical garments woven in sweatshops. So called "Christian America" is still a nation built on the work of slaves. We do not see them because they toil invisibly in other countries. Today's church doles out bits of charity from booty stolen from God's powerless people the world over. Anyone who claims to believe in a just God, or even in justice itself, has to know at some level that the prayers for liberation coming from third world countries will be heard and answered. At some level, people of faith have to know that unless America repents of the sin of empire we are a doomed nation.  

Whatever prophetic voices survive in the church must take a message to the mainstream denominations. "We are guilty of our leaders' crimes. Just because we are silent and passive does not mean that we are innocent. If we have any status in the power hierarchy, we are partially responsible for its misdeeds."  

I realize that most of the church consists of wonderful and compassionate people, but that does not matter if we turn over our power to those less charitable. The moderate mainstream church is helpless against fundamentalism because it is built on a nuanced version of the same cracked foundation of a theology of power.  

Whether or not we can change America in time to avoid a political and ecological apocalypse, it is never too late to do the right thing. All of us can begin to plant seeds of a better future for our children's children. For Christians today, that means suffering the consequences of refusing to bow to the dictator Christ of this culture.    

Digg!

The Rev. Jim Rigby is pastor of St. Andrew's Presbyterian Church in Austin, Tex. He can be reached at jrigby0000@aol.com.

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View:
what a bizarre Christ
Posted by: Scooterx99 on Jun 15, 2006 3:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a pastor in the United Church of Christ, I have been frustrated by the popular images of Jesus as subduer. Fortunately our polity allows us to cast him as a liberator who then allows us freedom to try and fix things, mess up, and try again with absolution. No dictatorship. Lots of love, compassion, justice, mercy. See 1 Cor 13.
I agree that the churches in america have their share of fessing up to do about the bizarre Christ they profess. I confess I don't understand their position...except as one of fear mongering...the antithesis of my take on faith. I would encourage you to check out the UCC at ucc.org to discover that not all churches are spitting the same venom.
The UCC is a non hierarchical denomination that trusts the Spirit to lead local churches to make their own decisions within a common covenant with other churches. The national body offers resources, but it is up to local affiliates to opt in, or not. Perhaps the Presbyterian church is not the pulpit you can be standing in anymore. If that is the case, check us out. You speak with a passion many in our denomination embrace.
Aloha,
rev. Scooter

» RE: what a bizarre Christ Posted by: Dale Dressler
» RE: what a bizarre Christ Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: what a bizarre Christ Posted by: aebartle
» RE: what a bizarre Christ Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: what a bizarre Christ Posted by: aonghus36
» Look in your mirror Posted by: YogiBear
» Kudos, UCC Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: what a bizarre Christ sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
Bushie fundamentalists
Posted by: rsaxto on Jun 15, 2006 4:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bushie fundamentalists are the ones who worship a bizarre Christ who is unrecognizable to real Christians. Be careful who you worship and who you believe for you may be doing more harm than good.

» RE: Molech Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Bushie fundamentalists Posted by: rhinojos
» RE: Bushie fundamentalists Posted by: Somedaysoon
Nicely put
Posted by: whyoung on Jun 15, 2006 4:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Being a bright, and having a naturalistic view of the world, I have to commend the good Reverend on a well written and to the point description of the misguided beliefs so many of his fellow Christians hold as truth. If only more of you were as rationally minded the world and humankind would be much better for it.

» RE: Nicely put Posted by: BJT
» RE: Nicely put Posted by: eastcoker
» On being A BRIGHT Posted by: ssegallmd
» RE: On being A BRIGHT Posted by: celticsweetgrass
» RE: On being A BRIGHT Posted by: griggsy
» RE: On being A BRIGHT Posted by: mrcentrist
» RE: On being A BRIGHT Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: On being A BRIGHT Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: On being A BRIGHT Posted by: ssegallmd
» RE: On being A BRIGHT Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: On being A BRIGHT Posted by: Tholos
» RE: On being A BRIGHT Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: On being A BRIGHT Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: On being A BRIGHT Posted by: 1984NOW!!!
» RE: On being A BRIGHT Posted by: davewuxi
griggs1947
Posted by: griggsy on Jun 15, 2006 4:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeshua is what ever one wants to paint him!Neither the reveren d's nor nor Fallwell.s portrait is wrong.We have only biased sources about him[See"Misquoting Jesus']. And I find the man a source of logicide and authoriatarianism . How can one seriously maintain that he was an anarchist when he stated give u nto Ceasar... SeeWalter Kaufmann's two books on religion to see how people project themselves on to Yeshua .All exegesis is eisegesis. If you want morality ,refer to Arthur Caplan ,Paul Kurtz or Michael Martin,not Yeshua .

» RE: griggs1947 Posted by: BJT
» RE: griggs1947 Posted by: griggsy
» On evidence and reasoning Posted by: Kanefire
» RE: griggs1947 Posted by: Uncle Tupelo
» RE: griggs1947 Posted by: ceti
» about Caesar Posted by: aumfish
Re: GOD'S BULLIES
Posted by: shangrilalad on Jun 15, 2006 4:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"People within the power hierarchy proclaim that God is the ultimate authority, and then appoint themselves as God's interpreters and enforcers."

Beware of God's self-appointed interpreters and enforcers, they don his mantle to enslave you.

» RE: e: GOD'S BULLIES Posted by: resistance6
» RE: e: GOD'S BULLIES sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: e: GOD'S BULLIES Posted by: tracymacl
And the beat goes on . . .
Posted by: ssegallmd on Jun 15, 2006 5:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"To picture God in terms of power is also one of the great bait-and-switch gimmicks of all time. People within the power hierarchy proclaim that God is the ultimate authority, and then appoint themselves as God's interpreters and enforcers. They are God's humble bullies. It has been one of the most successful con games of all time. "

3500 years ago:

Moses:
God gave me these Ten Commandments in private up there out of sight behind the bushes, and told me to tell you that he orders you to obey them or else! How do I know it was Him? The bush just started burning on its own. There's your proof. Do you doubt the word of the Lord?

2000 years ago:

John (in Revelations):
The Lord told me in a dream to tell you that if you don't get with His program in time and do as He has told us to tell you to do, he'll come for everybody who did and you will get left behind to be tortured. Do you doubt the word of the Lord?

Today:

Fallwell:
God told me that he is angry with "abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians . . . the ACLU . . . all of them who have tried to secularize America." Therefore it is just to persecute and wage holy war against them as well as anyone else whom I tell you that God said that he doesn't approve. Do you doubt the word of the Lord?

Robertson: God has told be to tell you that, "[t]he feminist agenda . . . encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians". Therefore he intends for us men to dominate them and for you gals to be feminine and submit. Hey, it's not my idea, it's God's. Do you doubt the word of the Lord?

Bush: God has anointed me to deliver his imperial will for America to the people of America and the earth, and he has instructed me to invade Iraq. Since I'm the decider, that's what we're doing. Are you with me and God or with the lib'ruls and terr'ists? Do not question my au-thor-i-tay!

» Um... Posted by: BJT
» RE: Another lesson for R6. Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: Um... Posted by: ssegallmd
» RE: Um... Posted by: benpaul
» RE: Um... Posted by: ssegallmd
» RE: Um... Posted by: LPB
» RE: Um... Posted by: blingnet88
» RE: Um... Thanks for the sanity! Posted by: billfaster
» Sanity??? Posted by: Steven Wanzell
» RE: And the beat goes on . . . Posted by: ingeniousidea
» RE: And the beat goes on . . . Posted by: george233
» RE: And the beat goes on . . . Posted by: Somedaysoon
The punitive god of empire is a false god
Posted by: wawa on Jun 15, 2006 5:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
During Pentecost week, 2005, the ex-Roman Catholic Father Fox posted a new 95 theses to the same church door in Wittenburg where Martin Luther had nailed the original 95 to 500 years before.


"A NEW REFORMATION" -by Matther Fox
Is for those who intuit God as Mother-Father God of Divine Wisdom and understand that the earth herself is to be tended and her health is just as much a moral imperative upon us all as our human relationships.

The Western Punitive Father god in NOT God; but a god made over in the minds of men who seek control, power and domination.

Nature is God’s primary temple and WAR is the greatest abomination.


Read more from the org. known as WeAreWideAwake in:

Chapter 2: The Revolution has started now...

» RE: The punitive god? NOT!! Posted by: dcr386az
» RE: The punitive god? NOT!! Posted by: SeverelyJaded
» RE: The punitive god? NOT!!/ Posted by: dcr386az
» RE: The punitive god? NOT!! Posted by: billfaster
» ALL GODS ARE FALSE! Posted by: Steven Wanzell
» RE: ALL GODS ARE FALSE! Posted by: aonghus36
» More empty claims. Posted by: Steven Wanzell
From the lips of a Presbyterian yet
Posted by: Urstrly on Jun 15, 2006 5:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So maybe William Sloan Coffin does have an heir in the Presbyterian Church. It is refreshing to hear a mainline Protestant denounce the politics of God the Terminator. Matthew Fox has called for a new Reformation in the Roman Catholic Church, but Protestants could use one as well. We progressives must not give up on the transformational power of good religion.

» From a secularist Posted by: ssegallmd
» RE: From a secularist Posted by: Urstrly
Children, children…
Posted by: Arvy on Jun 15, 2006 5:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To a child their parents are gods. We never grow up,we (or more accurately - most of you) still seem to need the idea of a big, benevolent daddy who lives 'up there' and is watching us all in case we break the rules.

Time to grow up, frankly, there is no divine, omnipotent, bearded bloke up there. Take responsibility for yourselves. What if you had been born 5 thousand years before Christ? Were all those people damned because there was no Hebrew god to believe in?

No.

Would I become a drug crazed, murderous thug if there were no Christians to show me the way?

No.

The native americans who were slaughtered by the Christians were 1000 times more Christian than those pious idiots you guys watch on tv and send your wages to so they can build another holiday home.

When Salladdin re-took Jerusalem from the Christians he ordered his men NOT to touch their women, their churches, their livestock. His reason: "We are not Christians", was a reference to the barbarism displayed by the westerners who butchered anything that moved when they, previously, took the city.

I think Christ was a real person but he's been hijacked. He spoke about levels of consciousness which we never explore because we're too busy building up an image of ourselves rather than facing truth.

But if the bearded bloke does exist then those of you who proclaim to be perfect christians, those of you who can't wait for 'the rapture', are all screwed: "Those who put themselves first shall be last…"

» RE: Children, children… Posted by: weiwuwei
» RE: Children, children… Posted by: ebliso
» An alternative explanation Posted by: doctorsquared
» RE: An alternative explanation Posted by: billfaster
» RE: Children, children… Posted by: dcr386az
» RE: Children, children… Posted by: Lindie
» RE: Children, children… Posted by: resistance6
» RE: Children, children… Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: Children, children… Posted by: resistance6
» RE: Children, children… Posted by: dcr386az
» RE: Children, children… Posted by: resistance6
» RE: Children, children… Posted by: dcr386az
» RE: Children, children… Posted by: aussidawg
» Check Mate. Posted by: Steven Wanzell
Authority and power addiction
Posted by: BPCBob on Jun 15, 2006 6:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article points to the obvious, there is a strong authoritarian impulse inherent in institutional Christianity. It is no accident that Christianity became the state religion of Rome after they outlawed the Gnostic texts and practices of early Christians and vested all power in Jesus, the Church and the Bishops.

Beyond Belief, The Gospel of Thomas, by Elaine Pagels, describes this early history of Christianity beautifully. The Gospel of Thomas preached that the goal of the practice of Cristianity was to become the spiritual twin of Jesus. The implication is that you can be as Jesus is in your own experience. This level of individual empowerment was not a good foundation for the development of a powerful church which needed to centralize authority in it's self, so they branded direct individual experience of spirit as invalid and substituted belief in Jesus, church & bishop.

Part of the power grab is to say God is Good, we have an exclusive relationship to God, you are inherently Bad, you need to submit to being controlled by us-God, to become Good. Human goodness is not the property of any institution, saint, or person, it is owned by the individual who lives it in relationship with others.

The power grabbing authoritarian part of Christianity is encated by leaders with strong needs to exercise authority over others. This makes them a natural partner for the part of the business lobby that also has a strong authoritarian streak. It is this authoritarian power grab encated through our democracy that we must oppose.

The Republican "Free" market, big business types who have aligned with authoritarian, fundamentalist, Christians (not all Christians) are not really interested in free as a human value. The only "free" that itnerests them is "free for me", which really means free from interference caused by the needs of anyone else. At the heart of our corporate psyche there is an authoritarian impulse, it's mine, I rule absolutely in my domain.

The disturbance we see in the alignment of both groups is an addiction to power over others. This is not a sound foundation for a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

» RE: Authority and power addiction Posted by: LeDiablePlaisant
» RE: Authority and power addiction Posted by: Steven Wanzell
Hurray for Rev. Rigby!
Posted by: timhooker on Jun 15, 2006 6:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Every Sunday morning, I read scripture to patients in a local mental health unit. Without comment or interpretation, I read the 23rd and 38th Psalms, I Corinthians 13, and the Sermon on the Mount. Trust me; several who think they are Christians are living lightyears away from the Sermon on the Mount. But, then, if you deify Jesus Christ loud enough and long enough, you don't have to pay any attention to his teachings. It reminds me of the part where he says that many in that day shall say, "Lord, Lord . . ."

» RE: Hurray for Rev. Rigby! Posted by: rhinojos
» "Captive" Audience? Posted by: Steven Wanzell
MORALITY IS NOT THE SAME AS OBEDIENCE TO AUTHORITY
Posted by: ssegallmd on Jun 15, 2006 6:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Today's church lifts its arms to praise Christ wearing liturgical garments woven in sweatshops. So called "Christian America" is still a nation built on the work of slaves. We do not see them because they toil invisibly in other countries. Today's church doles out bits of charity from booty stolen from God's powerless people the world over."

It's remarkable how many Christians speak and act as if Christianity implies morality and that there is no morality outside of Christianity. Wrong and wrong again.

First, the church does not teach morality for this is done by example with or without verbal supplements. For the church, it's pretty much "do as I say, not as I do" as the quote cited above well attests. If you don't walk the walk, you won't teach with just the talk. Would Christ have had any followers if he had been flagrantly hypocritical like the church?

Second, mature adult morality comes from a voice within which cannot be ignored except at the risk of the pain of guilt and inner turmoil. Such people do not behave morally because they are afraid that somebody is watching who will punish them for wrong action (hell for sinners) but will reward them for the opposite (heaven). This carrot and stick from above kind of morality is not morality at all, it is merely obedience and ethical behaviorr, although it is granted that this is better than misbehavior. It is crowd control.

Typically, liberals are driven by compassion and a well developed sense of justice. These come from within and are functions of the mature and secure superego. When such people fail themselves, they feel private guilt and disappointment with themselves

Conservative, in general and much moreso than lefties, are unimpeded by any inner voice. They have no inner reason to give or do more than what is demanded of them, and they little need to be inclusive or to make sacrifices for others.

They tend to be driven by self-centered, reptilian urges (comfort), and their behavior is limited only by the consequences of being caught: prison, disgrace or damnation. When they are shown to have failed to meet the standards expected of them, whether to the public or to their deity, they tend to feel shame, not guilt.

» On that "Mysterious Name"... Posted by: aussidawg
» Brilliant, as usual! Posted by: Steven Wanzell
» RE: Brilliant, as usual! Posted by: ssegallmd
GOD'S BULLIES
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jun 15, 2006 6:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People wanting to control and bully others is no mystery to me. Those who volunteer to be mistreated in the name of some god are a puzzle to me. Growing numbers of women and children in the USA are nothing more than property. This is done in the name of some god and always "according the bible". The followers have always been a mystery to me. They don't question anything or anybody. I wonder why? This is not about God. Thanks, ANNA

» RE: GOD'S BULLIES Posted by: LeDiablePlaisant
» "God"? Posted by: Steven Wanzell
» RE: GOD'S BULLIES Posted by: aussidawg
» Historical "Dumbing-Down" Posted by: Steven Wanzell
» RE: Historical "Dumbing-Down" Posted by: aussidawg
good article
Posted by: LeDiablePlaisant on Jun 15, 2006 7:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought this article was a nice surprise. It should be called "Western War Porn" however, in my not-so-humble opinion, as the Greek word "kurios" can connote yes, many such things, but at it's colloquial (read: common people) heart, it is an expression of God's VOYEURISM, his unwillingness to take part in affairs basically apart from his domain. As humans we claim his province for him, and tell each other that we wage wars for just reasons and that God is on our side. But in any serious theological sense, God is on all sides. Hence, from the Greek, "mercureal," which can mean shape-shifting, but also means endlessly curious, and therefore, ultimately, an unbiased affirmation.

I think your article is at it's strongest here:

To picture God in terms of power is also one of the great bait-and-switch gimmicks of all time. People within the power hierarchy proclaim that God is the ultimate authority, and then appoint themselves as God's interpreters and enforcers. They are God's humble bullies. It has been one of the most successful con games of all time.

Where you point out that those in positions of power are aware of this "bait-and-switch" aspect of the Godhead, and try and mimmick it no-end to their own-ends. So to speak.

The view that Jesus was an anarchist may be ignoring a bit of the complexity of John the Baptist and Mary Magdalene, &c. But point taken.

All in all this could be developed more because its themes are hearty. A welcome change from the daily droll.

» RE: good article Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: good article Posted by: ZPaul
Ominous signs and portents
Posted by: ceti on Jun 15, 2006 7:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can even venture to say that the contemporary American Christian super churches, are in fact anti-christian in their theology of power and domination as exemplified by Pat Robertson's support for dictators and fellow evangelicals Charles Taylor and Rios Montt. With the infusion of Southern slave-master theology and the settler mentality, you have the twin evils of America's birth, slavery and genocide, affirmed by the new "Christian" warmongers who revel in their roles as the chief priests of the latter day iteration of the Roman Empire.

Gives a long-overdue
Posted by: Mutternich on Jun 15, 2006 7:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
new meaning to "bully pulpit." Down with the pulpit bullies.

THIS ARTICLE IS PURE RUBBISH BY A WOLF IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING
Posted by: resistance6 on Jun 15, 2006 7:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's two gods -- the Almighty Creator God who is acknowledged in the Bill of Rights, the one who gives the unalianable rights, which our government is supposed to PROTECT. The God who made us is perfectly just, holy, righteous, almighty, and the judge of this world.

There's another "god" -- Satan. He is the one who came to lie, kill and destroy. He is the one who the international gangsters, the Illuminati, worship. He is the one who is behind the New World Order.

I am a Christian. I don't understand some wolf in sheep's clothing like the author of this piece of garbage on AlterNet this morning -- I don't understand such a person speaking against our Holy and righteous God and those who follow Him.

Catholicism is not Christianity. Catholicism came about when the spread of Christianity could not be stopped by persecution, when the more the Christians were persecuted the more Christianity spread. The Catholic church is an invention of Satan to control Christianity. The Greek and Roman gods were just given new names and the pagan religions of Greece and Rome were proclaimed to be "Christianity."

The wolf in sheep's clothing who wrote this silly article may not like the idea that he is powerless before the Almighty Creator God of the Universe, but he's not the one to make the rules. If he wants to fight against God, he's as much of a fool as Satan was when he declared war on God.

Jesus came the first time to suffer and die for man, that we might have a means of being justified for our wickedness, our evil sins, when we repent and turn to God. When he cames again at the end of the Tribulation, the Antichrist and all his followers who will take his mark and kiss his feet will be destroyed.

Anybody who tries to stand against God is a fool. In fact, Scripture says, The FOOL has said in his heart, there is no God.

» There ya go again. Posted by: Mutternich
» THE SINS OF THE DEITY Posted by: ssegallmd
» RE: THE SINS OF THE DEITY Posted by: resistance6
» RE: Xtian propaganda Posted by: BlueTigress
» Elite Aren't We Posted by: Conservativation
» Religion is your MASTER!!! Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: eligion is your MASTER!!! Posted by: resistance6
» RE: eligion is your MASTER!!! Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: eligion is your MASTER!!! Posted by: resistance6
who reads Bible ?
Posted by: Willhartig on Jun 15, 2006 8:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been to all types of churches and learned to a tee no one reads or has read the whole bible....... american church goers like to do works for local church, look to its pastor to teach them , but talk to the people and you find they dont know whats in Bible . And if you say the Bible says this or that you will get run out and call hatefull for not doing as pastor says..... me and wife are part of growing group of unchurched Christians who love Christ and his Truth but not man made RULES ,,, COME SOON LORD JESUS

» RE: who reads Bible ? Posted by: ebliso
» RE: who reads Bible ? Posted by: skater314159
» RE: who reads Bible ? Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: who reads Bible ? Posted by: Veryclassylady
» RE: who reads Bible ? Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: who reads Bible ? Posted by: Veryclassylady
» RE: who reads Bible ? Posted by: Doubtom
Examine the cosmology ....
Posted by: antirightwing on Jun 15, 2006 8:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I found Reverend Rigby commentary very insightful.

How things are semantically framed benefit those controlling the conversation not only to hijack politics and history but even theology itself is something we must all keep in mind.

Reverend Rigby wrote: "Should we be surprised that a hierarchical cosmology would produce hierarchical churches and nations? Should we be surprised that religious nations that picture Christ as a loving dictator have produced conquistadors, inquisitors and crusaders?"

Reverend Rigby , you hit it on the rhetorical nail with "... a hierarchical cosmology would produce hierarchical churches and nations?"

Examine the cosmology of a culture, people, nation and it will reveal the strong undercurrents that are virtually unconscious by its participants.

I say to the "Christian Right" (and what a misnomer it is), those who consider their path superior are condescending and further from spiritual truth.

Visit my blog: People For progress

» RE: xamine the cosmology .... Posted by: Conservativation
Metaphor Vs History,
Posted by: specialcowboy on Jun 15, 2006 8:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The difficulty here and in general with christianity arises when people can't tell the difference between metaphor and history. When you take and try to apply literally the myths of a people who are removed from you by 6,000 years of development to your life you're going to get in some trouble. It seems to me that most fundementalist (whatever that means) christians are more concerned with what they believe to be an instant literal apocolypse than what Jesus actually said (E.G. The kingdom will not come by expectation, it will come like a thief in the night.)
That being said I think that Jesus was an incredibly important political and spiritual philosopher, I don't think that he was literally the son of god (unless we all are) but his teachings have value, I just wish that the so called christians would follow them once in a while instead of picketing funerals.

"REVERAND RIGBY" ON JESUS THE ENEVOLENT DICATOR"
Posted by: resistance6 on Jun 15, 2006 8:30 AM   
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"Should we be surprised that religious nations that picture Christ as a loving dictator have produced conquistadors, inquisitors and crusaders?"

Mr. "Reverand" -- I can't help but notice how you hog the pompous titles of the clergy while at the same time you try tries to smash the foundations of Christianity.

Mr. Wolf in Sheep's Clothing, your statement above is pure bigotry and lies.

Who pictures Jesus as a "loving dictator?" Maybe you do, because you seem to hate the idea of being in submission to God at all. You think you're smarter than God? You think people should be able to steal, lie, murder, dishonor their parents, live in greed and covetousness and envy? You think the world would be a better place if we did not have these rules given to us by God who you say Christianity pictures as a "loving dictator?"

Those who are NOT Christians may picture God as a dictator. Those who believe in God see Him as our King, our God, our Saviour, our Source, our Comforter, our help in time of need, our friend who sticks closer than a brother, our advocate, our defender, our Rock.

You would prefer maybe that the Ten Commandments would be Ten Suggestions?

Christians have no quarrel with God's rules. We are in agreement with his rules and laws. We love his laws and his rules because we can see that they are good as God is good.

The Bible says woe unto those who call good evil and evil good.

Sounds like you are in a lot of trouble, Mr. "Reverand" Rigby.

» Reality Alert! Posted by: Steven Wanzell
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chrispy
Posted by: cpatton on Jun 15, 2006 8:35 AM   
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As the descendant of Presbyterians, including missionaries, I was encouraged to read this article. There is much in it that bears the core of truth from the perspective of this world and how the name, person and teachings of Jesus have been hijacked by political operatives. We live in an oppressive and increasingly globalized system of economic imbalance and spiritual confusion. The creation is even under attack by the greedy materialistic economic juggernauts we know as multi-, trans- and international corporations. The UN and globalism will not bring solutions to these problems either. The power of the people is incapable of performance without corruption.

One technical point: the Hebrew is plain that the God of Israel and His Son are indeed kings, albeit not the "lairds" of our western cultural heritage. True spiritual hierachy is not corrupt. That is the one thing about the genuine manifestation of the Holy Spirit in the lives of true believers: He/She/It cannot be corrupted from the pure essence of love, which is the inherent nature of the Father. The world is lost in the spirituality that manifests itself as an indivisible mixture of good and evil, as presented in Eden's Tree of Knowledge. This is the spirit of antichrist that blinds so many who believe they are Christian. It also blinds many who believe they are spiritual.

Yeshua/Jesus did not advocate war by His disciples for any kingdom of this age, yet He did not deny his hierachal position as King. That twist came later with the Romans and particularly with Emperor Constatine's co-option of the majority of the bishops assembled at Nicea in AD 325. The Roman Empire's acquisition of the official church as an ally in the cultural manipulation of the people became classically expressed during the Middle Ages through what came to be called the catholic and orthodox branches of Christianity. The twist in Yeshua/Jesus' teachings was written into church canon by Augustine and others. Those who believe that the Kingdom of God is the church on earth are consistent to fight for it through the nation-state system politically and militarily, but they are wrong.

The problem is that this is not what Jesus taught. He told Pilate that His Kingdom was not of this world or age or His servants would fight! (John 18:36-37) Yeshua is King of Israel and King of the kings of the nations, but He has not returned to claim His crowns. He came the first time to deal with individual sins according to one's faith. He comes again soon to deal with the societal sins by overturning the god of this age, Satan, and destroying the babylonish political states that rule with oppression and war with deceit in fulfillment of the Destroyer's desires.

Woe to those who teach economic oprression of the poor and war! Judgment will probably come sooner than later. For more articles along this line of reasoning go to: http://www.apocalypse2008-2015.com/articles_index.html and particluarly to "The God of Israel Loves Arabs and All Peoples" at: http://www.apocalypse2008-2015.com/God_Loves_Arabs.html.

There are Christians & Christ Followers
Posted by: NoPCZone on Jun 15, 2006 8:49 AM   
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Jesus warned his followers that people would come into the church to use it for their personal and selfish desires and purposes. Much of the evil done in the name of God is due to these people and those who blindly follow them.

There are others who follow the teachings not as a list of do's and don'ts, but as illustrations of the need to live peacefully, mercifully and gracefully among others. Please do not lump us all together.

From Matthew 5
3 "God blesses those who realize their need for him, for the Kingdom of Heaven is given to them.
4 God blesses those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
5 God blesses those who are gentle and lowly,for the whole earth will belong to them.
6 God blesses those who are hungry and thirsty for justice, for they will receive it in full.
7 God blesses those who are merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
8 God blesses those whose hearts are pure, for they will see God.
9 God blesses those who work for peace, for they will be called the children of God.
10 God blesses those who are persecuted because they live for God, for the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs.
11 "God blesses you when you are mocked and persecuted and lied about because you are my followers.
12 Be happy about it! Be very glad! For a great reward awaits you in heaven. And remember, the ancient prophets were persecuted, too."

43 "You have heard that the law of Moses says, `Love your neighbor'[n] and hate your enemy.
44 But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you!
45 In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and on the unjust, too.
46 If you love only those who love you, what good is that?
Even corrupt tax collectors do that much.
47 If you are kind only to your friends,[p] how are you different from anyone else? Even pagans do that.
48 But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect."

From Matthew 7
1 "Stop judging others, and you will not be judged.
2 For others will treat you as you treat them. Whatever measure you use in judging others, it will be used to measure how you are judged..

From Matthew 23
23"How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest part of your income, but you ignore the important things of the law--justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but you should not leave undone the more important things."

From Galatians 5
22 But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives, he will produce this kind of fruit in us: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, and self-control. Here there is no conflict with the law.


New Living Translation
Peace to all

» Thanks for the new translation Posted by: Sojourner
THE SCREWTAPE LETTERS
Posted by: Arvy on Jun 15, 2006 8:52 AM   
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I urge anyone interested in these issues to read "The Screwtape Letters", by CS Lewis.

This is a story about a trainee demon given the task of guiding a c