Nice. Christian basic training camps. Der kinder are all fresh and scrubbed, and becoming well indoctrinated in a political agenda like little Manchurian candidates getting ready to be deployed against the secular world.

Christians are making it clear that they don't intend to tolerate secularism or non-Christians. "Good" Christians will be expected to subject their children to these youth camps or face accusations of being less than committed to their deity. It will become increasingly difficult to coexist with them and their agenda to transform America into a theocracy.

These people are as stealthy, angry and aggressive as any paramilitary or white supremacy faction, and they are better organized and better funded. If David Koresh and the Branch Davidians were the lunatic fringe of theis movement, then the politicized evangelicals are the lunatic core.

Watch out for the political Christians.

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The assumption that the left is agnostic does not come from the Democratic Party. Frankly, I think it comes from evangelicals like Wallis who cannot curb their missionary zeal. It then gets picked up as a talking point by people on the left who bow low before the presumed authenticity of the common man, whom they understand in very reductive and patronizing ways.

If evangelicals are smart enough to figure out that Bush is a false idol, they can be humble enough to join a political movement whose goals more closely approximate their values without insisting that these goals be reframed as Christian.

It is, after all, possible to be an American AND a Christian. That is what the Framers intended when they attached the First Amendment to the Constitution: respect for all religions, representation by none.

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This article shifted its focus about midway through, from the camps to evangelicals in America.

I expect better writing.

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Stalin and Hitler both knew the power of indoctrinating the very young into the "proper" way of thinking. Brainwashing holds better if someone is young and not exposed to a different way of thinking.

This article actually makes the sign I used to shake my head at in front of a local (southern) church much more ominous. It was for "Christian Soldiers Day Care".

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Is it just me or was this a horribly written piece? Somehow the thesis in the opening didn't match the conclusions at the end. Was something cut? If not, please find some better writers. This was just plain pitiful as composition goes.

On top of the bad writing I'm so tired of hearing how everyone else must put their rights aside and make nice with the evangelicals. I don't care if they are starting to believe in environmental issues... they're still overwhelmingly dedicated to stripping individual rights and freedoms from everyone else.

Likewise, if they want to "reduce abortions" I'd suggest they stop laying around in the streets or harassing people trying to get medical care and adopt some kids. While they're at it, they can also stop whining about Plan B, contraception, and abstinence. It's all so much hooey. As someone recently said: "If the fetus you're protecting grows up to be gay, will you still fight for its rights?"

I think we all know the answer to that one. Come on AlterNet you can get better writers and better articles than this one.

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You think this is bad? Wait till the Inquisition really gets rolling. Abu Garaib sp and Gitmo were just a starter, now they are ready to go.

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The first major corruption of Christ's message was when Augustine penned the "Just War Theory"

Up until then, it was understood that to be a Christian one would be a NONVIOLENT RESISTER,
even when being nailed to a cross as many social justice radical revolutionary Palestinian Jews [and pagans]
were who upset the status quo by confronting the empire in defense of the poor and oppressed.

Up until Emperor Constantine legitamized Christianity
NO Christian ever served in the military!

One hundred years after Constantine ALL Roman soldiers we required to be baptized.


100 years BEFORE Christ walked the earth a man, Rabbi Hillel,

knew that the Hebrew understanding of Hokema; Holy Wisdom

was the same as the Greek understanding of The Logos:
The Word.

Paul and John understood

The Word was good and

The Word was The Logos

The Word is The Christ

John Lennon on Rubber Soul, intuitively knew:

"The Word is just The Way and The Word is Love"

Use your imagination and you can see that before Christ walked the earth a man,

He was already a She: Hokema, Holy Wisdom; the Feminine Divinity

Now that's GOOD NEWS!!!


MUCH more on WAWA BLOG

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Is this the "abomination of desolation" standing where it ought not to stand, in our children? The Christ told us to keep our own counsel, and He meant with God, each man himself with God, not with a religion.
We know who gives "born again" feelings and has others "speak in tongues". It's the "LA, LA" god. He works hand in hand with Jehovah, the god of war of destruction.
Jenny Miner for Delamer Duverus

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A neighbor of mine revealed to me how these faux "Christians" and GOP "conservatives" in the state legislature get together to find ways to brainwash the young ones into believing in tax increases against the farmers. Can you imagine being a farmer putting up with spoiled children blabbering to the farmer "Fees are good for you !" ?

As for the parents that do their children's homework, this is nothing new. When I was in elementary school, these so-called "science fairs" were always about parents doing the kids' work and look where it got us all. When parents, children, and teachers engage in the kind of social loafing, the faux "religious" scumbags like Robertson, FARTwell, Dobson, etc ... win.

This article also confirms Lakoff's warning that when "conservatives" control the debate and the future, this is what you can expect !

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I all but stood up and cheered when I read this:
"But it might be worth questioning the conventional wisdom that the 100 million Americans who call themselves evangelicals all march to the same beat."
Thankyou! Thank you for allowing the possibility that just because some Christians are as crazy as the Jesus Camp crowd, not all are. I've grown up as a Christian, and made my decision at age 5, but it was not like the Jesus Camp. 5 year olds are simply not old enough for concepts like speaking in tongues and martyrdom. What are they thinking?

As for jessebucksc's comment, "I don't care if they are starting to believe in environmental issues... they're still overwhelmingly dedicated to stripping individual rights and freedoms from everyone else," please don't tar everyone with the same brush. If you want us to tolerate your views, you should tolerate ours without resorting to inflammatory rhetoric. Besides, I probably agree with you on some things that might surprise you.

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The more appropriate term for people such as these would be jihadists for Jesus or christians against Christ. They teach a uniquely mystical dogma that has it's roots in America. Speaking in tongues must have a translator and there is no prayer language. Most of what is taught is made up. I've been in groups such as these from adolesence to young adulthood and am still trying to recover after 23 years. It is a brainwashing of hate and dominionism that is nothing less than what occurs with cults, crusades and war mongering tyrants from the early christian church which was extraordinarily un-Christ like that plundered all that they could see and destroyed anything that was outside of a very narrowly defined view of what should be.

To get a good idea of what is happening in our country now, please go to http:/theocracywatch.org . All of the latest information regarding this movement is also listed on this site.

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These people follow Satan and should be alerted to that fact.

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Those Christian soldier camps aren't any different from the 'revolutionary Islamic schools' that sprung up in Pakistan and Afghanistan, or the Khmer Rouge indoctrination programs for youth, or the Hitler Youth training camps - all relied on indoctrination of the young into a movement - very reminescent of the child soldiers of Sierra Leone.

There is a lot of information available on the standard techniques all these groups employ - for example,

Propaganda, Indoctrination, Psyops and Advertising:

"Nazism, the myth of Germanic racial superiority, is an interesting look at a common historical occurrence. Hitler provided the skeleton, but Goebbels and the Propaganda Ministry put flesh on the bones. Use of constant reinforcement, triggering an amazing number of cultural responses such as 'noble sacrifice' and 'total commitment,' use of the 'elite chosen by God' metaphor, indoctrination of the young, all were a masterful implementation by a natural talent."

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As a non-militant atheist, nothing will militarize me more than putting down non believers as less moral. We are just as moral and sometimes more moral than the religious leaders out there.

This is one of many reasons why I won't ever vote for Joe Lieberman. Not because he is an orthodox Jew, but because he has said that morality comes from religion.

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So... Americans have thier own terrorist training camps, complete with religious teachings and calls to "defend the faith... with your life!". Just like in Afganistan, the ole Koran and Kalashnikov schools.

The only difference is, American kids live richley and without violence while muslim kids in, say, Palestine, live with watching thier family get blown to pieces in the latest Israeli bombings.

What does this say about America? That they live in a fantasy world at war with the real world.

I recon.

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Apropo of nothing above or below except we would all like to see Bush get what's coming to him Truthout says since May 10 there has been a case # for Rove. I wonder why we are not hearing about it from our ever alert press? Bet your boots we would hear if it were a Democrat. Pray, raise all the hell you can, just don't let him get away with it.

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Can anyone tell me what is the difference between these
Christian and the Hitler Jugend camps? We have all seen how
high you can rise coming from either.

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People here are complaining because the article, far from being the usual alarmist Alternet screed, is written by somebody who understands that religious America is a hugely diverse environment where you'll find all kinds of oddball stuff going on. Anyone who could look at the stuff described in the documentary, and believe it to be anything like an ordinary day in the evangelical world, has no idea what's actually going on out there.

But some people are actually denouncing the article because of its nuanced understanding of American religion. They want a flame-throwing denunciation of all things Christian, and don't want to read that people like the ones running the camp are actually quite a small sliver of American Christianity. You'd think people would be happy about that. But no--some readers actually want to believe that millions of their fellow citizens are hate-crazed theocrats. It just isn't so, but they want to think so, for reasons that leave me mystified.

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I think the author intended to reach to our deepest fears about fundamentalist fanatics -- christian soldiers in the making -- and then present an alternative view of the Christian community in this country. His writing like others, suggest that religion and the religious in the United States are much more complex than we care to acknowledge.

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Arthur C. Clarke said "One of the greatest tragedies in human history was the hijacking of morality by religion." Most religious folks have been well indoctrinated and are firm believers in "the greatest story ever sold." The trend toward theocracy doesn't bother the rich as the right-wing fundamentalists are all in favor of greed, militarism and to hell with what Jesus would do.

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I have been around for some six decades and have long since become convinced that Christianity is synonomous with hypocrisy. In anycase, the American Taliban reigns free.

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I am a long time liberal and a fairly recent Christian. When I was "born again" about 2 years ago, at first I was finding it a bit difficult to reconcile my political beliefs with Christianity. However, after doing a bit of research (like reading the Bible and books like "God's Politics -- which I am in the middle of now), I came to realize that the core Christian teachings are much more in line with American liberalism than with the present day conservatism.

In actuality, what I understand about the Christian fait can be boiled down to, "Love the lord your God and love your neighbor as yourself." I don't see a lot of love of neighbor coming from the so-called Christian right, and I do not identify with most of their beliefs. The church I go to is very open, and we believe whole-heartedly in Jesus and try to be more like Him. According to my research, Jesus spent a lot of His time with the sinners of the world to try to make their lives better. That is how I want to practice Christianity.

And, before you ask, I do consider homosexuality and abortion sins. However, so are greed and killing innocent civilians in the name of war. The Bible is much more focused on overcoming poverty than preaching against homosexuality. Read the book of Amos sometime for an eyeopener. Also, I would never try to discriminate against a homosexual just like I wouldn't try to discriminate against a greedy person. I would never kill and abortion doctor or support any group that would. As Wallis puts it, we Christians need to be about a life agenda all the way through a person's life, not just before they are born.

Many on the so-called Christian right also forget about the freedom of choice that God gave each one of his children. It is not up to me to decide for someone whether they are going to sin or not. I may try to lovingly influence him or her to change or modify their actions, but in no way will I interfere in their choice. If God chooses not to interfere in that way, then who am I to take on that awesome responsibility.

Sorry if this is a bit rambling. I sometimes don't know when to stop, so I will stop ehre.

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Well, it's pretty obvious to me that white evangelicals are willing to throw in their lot with Republicans because many of them are still stuck in the pre-Civil Rights mindset. You all know what that is - us "Nee-groes" and "Coloreds" stayed in our place and didn't complain about being second-class citizens?

Hmm, seems to me black evangelicals are too busy dealing with real issues that matter to the community such as crime, poverty and economic disparity. Maybe white evanglicals need to stop waiting for the rapture and get their feet back down here to earth!

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It is part of the narrow mindset if aren't with us in lockstep, you are against us

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Since history has been recorded, religion, the total immersion of self in all aspects of religion completely devoid of reality or reason, has been the cause of all warfare. Fundamentalists and fanatics rally their bases with their righteous cries that instigate violence in god's name to sanctify their cause of obliterating any who have contrary beliefs than their one and only "truth". We see the Muslim fundamentalists as less than human since their religious practices offend our sensibilities. We wouldn't behead our enemies, deny women rights to education or make them wear burkhas, impose everyone to worship, with such fervor, a Koran we deem to encourage hatred. Not us - right? Our homegrown fundamentalists are enjoying more power than ever before because they've got their Elmer Gantry in W. He fuels their religious pride by anointing himself as the one who speaks to and for their savior. Yes, his every action taken has been heavenly approved. The majority of jihadists have been trained at their madrasses from very early ages. They learn little else of the modern world into which they were born therefore their fanatical views shape their consciousness completely. The majority of wingnut Christianity perverters were probably brainwashed as children by their own tainted parents and they obligingly pass down their warped philosophy, completing the cycle. These schools are just a natural progression since you can go just so far home schooling the hatred. If enough Wallises finally find their tongues and expose this truly anti-Christ agenda of these hyporites, maybe, just maybe, enlightenment will again envelop our country. Progressive liberals need not pander to those already too far gone for reason but should never cede one iota and allow them to portray us as morally inferior and anti-religion. The truly high moral ground is liberalism. Even Jesus was one!

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I don't think I want to find out, do you? Look at the situation right now. Lamebrain goes to church-with or without someone else. Spends an hour or two half-listening to the charlatan on the pulpit proclaiming what a worm you are if you don't think & believe what he says is true, and then asking his suckers to pay for the performance. Lamebrain leaves the house of hypocrisy & humbug just as stupid,ignorant, hateful, and intolerant as ever, having had all the wrong things implanted in his puny mind reinforced. How much worse can it get than that?

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I have only been a Christian since 1969. I rally don't know that much. I am just a guy who survived the 60's because I received Christ at the House Of Miricales, an out reach of the California Jesus Movement in Phoenix, AZ.

Some of the comments say the camp is akin to a Muslim terrorist camp. The article forgot to mention what explosives the kids were taught to use for suicide bombs. No mention was made of their firearms training. Where is the shooting range located? The ammo dump?

One or more stated that you can be moral and not be Chistian. That is true. But what kind of eternal assurance do you have? Jesus said we must be born again. Why? When asked what good work one must do Jesus said the work of God is to beleive on Him Whom God has sent. That is where true Christianity starts, with Jesus Christ, the One the Father sent.

Some back lash and neg. comments against Christians is deserved. Moral lapses by Christian leaders, so called Christians blowing up clinics...ect. But I think most of the neg. hurled at Christians is because: John 3:16-20 "For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son, that whoever will believe on Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved. He that beleives on Him is not condemned: but he that beleives not is condemned already, because he has not beleived in the Name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light has come into the world, and men have loved darkness rather than Light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the Light, neither comes to the Light, lest their deeds be reproved."

The article says the yougsters are asked if they are ready to die for their belief. What kind of 'death'? suicide bombs or the like were not mentioned. I was taught to take up my cross daily and death to self (which is basically any thing that would lead us to break one of the 10 commandments... There are New Testament coralaries for all but Saturday worship). We are not to murder ourselves or others. (Suicide bombs are out.) When confronted with martyrdom, like in the Roman arena, we must be ready to love not our life even if means we are physically killed. But if some one breaks into my home...

I suppose it's that the children are being 'programmed' to be Christians that raised the hackels of the author. Not many want to be called sinners, but according to the Bible we all are.

By the way, I agree with the opening paragraph. And I agree there is room for improvement in the Christian community. But there are no valid reasons for the bias against and the movement to exclude Christians from any legitimate arena, like politics, creation/evoulution, abortion, the removal of historical Christian symbols...The USA was founded on Biblical principles by men who mostly beleived in God and the Bible. What is the fruit in our schools from kicking God out? Over all they are a mess! Our founders are the ones who fought, killed and died for independance from England. Wanna go back?

There were military converts in Jesus day. Ask John the Baptist. He told them how to live.

Just a shout form the nosebleed section!

Sam Fox, aka medMUser

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In order to be a true Christian, one must love God, neighbor and self quietly. Since the only so-called Christians that are heard from cannot be Christians at all, I don't think other faiths need to worry about losing their followers.

It is oximoronic to brain wash children to be "Christian soldiers." Even the bowdlerized version of the New Testament that has been passed down to us never advocates fighting under any circumstances; ergo, why would there be any need for soldiers?

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I relate to the type of Christian this writer describes. I get Jim Wallis's newsletter. I am an evangelical who strongly opposes war, that cares for Darfur, the environment and the poor. There are many evangelical's within my sphere that believe this way too. We want an alternative to Bush. Jesus has called us to love! That is his greatest commandment. I have been reading Alternet for almost 2 years now and it almost always makes me sad. So many people have a burning hatred for evangelicals on this site. I wish I could speak with them face to face so I could hear their concerns. People should know that the true Christian God is one of love, forgiveness, beauty and most of all Justice. Everyone, even non-Christians, can be assured the God will give us justice! I guess I am asking the people of this site to cheer up! Yes, the world is a horrible place. But God is good and Jesus came to heal us and bring us justice. Jesus is calling ALL people to love one another, no matter what they believe or do to us.

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what if this division between an evangelical right & "agnostic" left is just the progress of an already existing division (just the plain old division of "left" & "right"). better yet, what if this division is intentional, i mean after all, what better way to disguise your own power grab than by getting people to busy themselves w/ debating non-issues? kind of like stage magic, "now watch my right hand closely..." or, "divide and conquer." i don't know. i must just be ignorant, maybe two gay men wanting to get married really is my business....ouch, my little head hurts. hey, wouldn't it be neat, speaking of pentacostals, if the reason why no one can interpret the tongues they speak in, is because it isn't hebrew or greek or latin, but sanskrit? hah!

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very funny. everyone actually thinks you can completely brainwash children to be completely faithful to their religion without interjecting any meaninful and mindful intellecutal stimulation.

Boy Scouts, Hitler Youth, Behavior Camps...Brainwashing all wears off when reality serves to make people realize that their nice little apple pie world is not how the rest of the world lives. Try and reconcile good, right, noble with poverty, pain, injustice and hate. No more brainwashing.

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Christianity is an offshoot of an ordinary cannibal cult that is also from the harsh Desert environment.

As a youngster everyday I would go to mass before school and eat the body and drink the blood of a little cannibal cult kid from Jerusalem. The Blood that we drank and the body that we ate belonged to a 33 year old Jewish lad who lived with his mother and drank wine. This may be why some people claim that he was actually Irish.

Yet upon reflection, can you imagine how the Jews must feel about this. No wonder that they are nervous about falling into the hands of the Christian right. Everyday before school practicing eating the body and drinking the blood of a Jew!

The "Master" class takes our money to finance this religious activity. Basically a forced taking of wealth to Foster "Mindless" behavior, some of these groups produce people who tend to be very dangerous in everyday life situations, though most are harmless enough.

This mind controlled group can find ways to trick their minds into accepting all sorts of things that can be very adverse to other humans.

.

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Even many who actually feel as you do go to churches that teach them otherwise. After a few sessions, the reasonable person suddenly becomes an unreasonable fundie. I've watched it happen.

I have a friend that is Baptist (yes, yes, you can believe it!). We have had many a conversation on many a subject. Her real beliefs fall more in line with Wallis...when she's not attending a church, that is. When she goes to church several weeks in a row, her entire opinion not only changes, she thinks that's what she's always believed! When she stops going to church for awhile, she reverts back to her original opinions. She never even realizes those opinions changed. It's freaking weird to be on the outside and seeing this!

My sister is this way, too. I consider her a true Christian and she truly does try to live the way Jesus taught. Here again, though, church gets in the way. One time she, who is now an evangelical Nazarene, asked me if I had ever read about the Catholic beliefs. She declared, "those people are evil!" She meant it, too. She went on to tell me just how evil Catholics are. I sat staring at her in open mouthed astonishment. When she was finished her diatribe, I reminded her that we were raised Catholic and our mother was still Catholic. "Are you trying to tell me Mom is evil?" I asked in total disbelief. (my mother was a damned good woman and a better Christian than anyone else I've ever known).

The look on my sister's face was amazing. The expression said, "Oh! I forgot about that!" Yes, folks, this graduate of Catholic parochial school FORGOT she was Catholic for all of her young life.

Who needs camps? The churches are doing a bangup job of brainwashing the masses. That's why they're so adamant about getting the young people into the churches. Just as Hitler and Stalin knew, if you can start the brainwashing early enough, it will hold throughout a person's life.

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Lock up your daughters the NeoTaliban are coming.
Perhaps the rest of the world should just lock out the USA.
Sorry guys ; you are just an embarrasment to civilization.
Is there anyone big enough over there to give the country a big shake? Wake up!

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Moral distress points to something bringing it about. Perhaps thinking about what it is that's bringing these reactions to the surface would be a more worthwhile endeavor for adult citizens of a constitutional state. These are dangerous times, and strong adult reflection is desperately needed. It's a very small minority that is guiding and constructing this world of ours; and it's not for anyone else but themselves.

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As a Christian I can say that I would much rather allign myself with a morally sound atheist than a fellow christian who supports war, death penalties, and oppression.

These posts all convey a hostility in one way or another about religious beliefs. As a Christian I am horrified by the Right Wing use of the Bible to condemn gays, or anybody else whose sin differs from the Right Wing's. Their neglect of the poor and the sick, and their hypocrasy of calling themselves Pro-Life while they cheer the perversions of GITMO and Abu Ghraib is spiritually sickening. But they soothe their spirits through the materialistic therapy WalMart and Target offer them.

When I attend meetings or attempt to share ideas online I am barraged by fellow progressives who make hateful attacks on a religion that I am apart of. People, you are not going to run me away from this fight with your elitist satire of Christianity and all who follow. The Civil Rights movement began in church, while social and labor movements were creating fascism in Russia and Eastern Europe. Any good ideology can become corrupt for wanting of power.

While thousands of innocents are being slaughtered, we have the luxury of taking the bait again and again over religious bickering. You know, it wouldnt take somebody well versed in the Bible to challenge the Repuke definition of morality. Week in and out I hear Bill Maher and others ridicule something I believe in with all my being. A belief that the creator wants us all to love one another, and to treat those who are poor, sick, elderly, or persecuted with dignity and respect. Im sorry that people have distorted the words of Christ, that is something that has made me an outcast at times within my own family. I dont apologize for being Christian, nor do I apologize for the compassion and mercy that He speaks of.

People who believe in inclusion, should offer a little tolerance to people of Christian faith. If you ever want to win an election you are going to have to reach out, that's just mathematics.

The root of our moral crisis is this market place, dog-eat-dog way of life. Me First. Look out for #1. Until we as progressives show people that we dont have to live that immoral lifestyle, the definiton of morality will stand uncontested and we will continue our school yard name calling. So in the meantime I promise I will never judge any of you for your religious beliefs, try to stop insulting me for mine. Its just another form of self-righteous condemnation of others.

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How classy.

I do LOVE the way the fundy loonies in the US condemn other people and other countries for being obsessive, for brain-washing children, for being fundamentalists who will stop at nothing, etc, etc, and yet it's ok for them to do EXACTLY THE SAME THING!

USSA - PLEASE build a big wall around yourselves and don't come out.

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I find it rather annoying to see so many people assuming that all our problems would be solved if we would all just move under Christianity's umbrella. Yes, there is a difference between militant fundamentalists and more 'civilized' believers -- in every religion this is true -- but sociomoral prejudices are still defended as traditional and sanctioned, as there is little voice given to what one might truly call the "Religious Left". If we are being asked to discern between an extreme form of orthodox monotheism and a more-moderate form and choose the moderate as the better alternative, it's still being pressured to buy into a religious system that demands absolute devotion and obedience, emphasizes social conformity, punishes deviancy, and wants to have the whole world under its proprietary banner.

Follow Christ if that's the teacher you believe in, but don't assume that "Christianity for everyone" will save the world. It certainly hasn't worked too well in history so far, especially with all the schism and fractures and holy wars. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Communism and Capitalism have all tried the same thing in their turn, and it's never been a particularly well-handled project, to try to enforce uniformity of belief/worship/practice. Just look up Aldous Huxley or Eric Hoffer on that matter -- it's a human drive, but one of the least rational or defensible ones still remaining in us.

NO absolute "religion" (including anti-religion) will ever work for all individuals. Unless people come (or return, or renew) of themselves to a spiritual path that they feel is theirs--regardless of what others believe for themselves--it cannot be authentic, and the attempts of ideological mass entities to claim all minds/souls to themselves are fated to result in tragedy.

To use the Catholic jargon, I believe that aggressive proselytizing is a mortal sin. And I see little difference between one major religion and another within the article above, except that the American Christianists haven't been given weapons yet. They'll learn to use them in the U.S. military, anticipatedly under the auspices of the anointed successor(s) to their present Commander-in-Chief. See the advantages of having your religion already sponsored as nationalistic?

(More at my blog)

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I think most of you who thought it was poorly written are just disappointed, because you were all excited about another opportunity to rant and rave about the "evil evangelicals".

All Christians are not bad, or even most of them. These are just the only ones you hear about, because it makes good copy.

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The Children's Crusade
Questionable medieval records suggest children go on a crusade to liberate the Holy Land but get sold into slavery instead.
As medieval knights couldn't seem to conquer and keep the Holy Land, in 1212 a precocious youngster from France named Stephen of Cloyes decided that maybe children could. Hey, if full-grown men with armor and swords couldn't do it, who better to dispatch the infidel Turks from Jerusalem than a rabble of defenseless, runny-nosed brats? Stephen managed to convince 25,000, or maybe 30,000, "of whom none were more than twelve years of age", to go with him. They were supposed to march to the Mediterranean, it was supposed to part for them, and they were supposed to walk into the Holy Land like they owned the place. Did 30,000 French children and German - Alberic, historian Peter Raedts suggests, appears to have blended them together. really think that they could take Jerusalem by storm, only to get tragic and hilarious comeuppance? Certainly not. It's too bad, really: we love to hear about the suffering of upright, snotty children just as much as anybody else.

You can imagine their chagrin when they arrived to the rolling waves of the Mediterranean, which was not parting for anybody. One envisions thirty thousand children crying and throwing tantrums on the beach.

Into this melancholy scene, chronicler Alberic of Troisfontaines recounts, arrived wealthy merchants Hugo Ferreus and William Porcus, who beneficently offered free passage to the Crusaders. They got seven boats together, crammed them to the rafters with children, and everyone was off. After the boats disappeared from sight, nobody heard from them for eighteen long years, at which point one of the kids returned with a sorry tale:
Two ships were supposedly wrecked off the coast of Sardinia, killing everyone aboard. Not long afterwards the remaining five ships landed east of Algiers and their human cargo promptly sold into slavery to the infidels. "Was it for this," they asked, "that we have taken the Cross and enlisted in the army of Christ? Is it thus the soldiers of the holy cause are rewarded?" Looks that way. As a final piece of christian propaganda,

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Anyone who links the face of the President of the United States to that of Jesus, in my mind, is a fascist. That's what we call such a merger of the state with the divine. Unfortunately, these filmmakers, like much of secular America, appear to be unsophisticated in their ability to make distinctions among religious people. Not all Christians are evangelicals, not all evangelicals are Pentecostals, and not all Pentecostals are fascists. Regrettably, the left turns a deaf ear to religion—whether it's Christianity or Judiasm or Islam or those of the East. When the left addresses the spiritual emptiness of our greed-driven consumer culture, people will see the face of God as one of love and compassion rather than fear and xenophobia.

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The most horrible sin this country is commiting now is its unquenchable ANGER.

It permeates society. Terrorists, mexicans, people driving too slow in the fast lane, liberals, 9/11 widows.... so much to be angry about.

With all of the horror going on in our world, where did we find time for hating all of these Mexicans, all of the sudden? Whether they like it or not, the Children's Army is going to have to be bilingual.

A majority of church people have been lead away by the stranger. They no longer heed the voice of the Shepherd.
The greatest threat to Christianity is is christians. At some point it may be too late to look back.

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The only cult leader I had the misfortune to encounter was David Berg, a.k.a. Moses David of the Children of God back in '69. I found virtually all of his followers were doing so quite willingly. Those who are coerced into involvement in organised religion while they are quite young by their parents, often come to their senses by the time they reach the age of majority.
I'm not about to waste time peruading others they on a blind road that will only end in oblivion that Audie Murphy and Jim Morrison called, "the big sleep."
I've "cancelled my subscription to the resurrection." What you do, is up to you!

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Look, this big issue is this - most evangelicals - in fact most Christians - are NOT the type of knee-jerk reactionaries mentioned in this article, holding 'Jesus Camps' and trying to indoctrinate the young. I KNOW - having been raised in the church and I consider myself a gnostic Christian.

However, I don't sit and whine about articles like this. I don't pitch a tizzy fit and try to come off as a 'poor beleagered and persecuted Christian', especially because I have friends who practice non-traditional beliefs such as Wicca and Buddhism and I've seen firsthand the kind of hate and intolerance THEY go through - from having their cars vandalized because they have a pentacle sticker on the bumper, to their kids being singled out at school because their parents don't attend megachurches like Saddleback or The Rock.

Articles like this remind me that as a Christian, I and my fellow Christians have a LONG way to go to practice what we preach. Articles like this should remind all of us that we should be wresting the healing nd compassionate gospel of Jesus from zealots and hatemongers who are currupting his word for their own egotistical ends.

If you really want to do something, how about the next time the Klan has a rally and tries to use God's Word as their rallying cry for racial hatred, how about you get in their faces and tell them they're NOT CHRISTIANS! Or going into urban neighborhoods to bring food or volunteer as a tutor. How about working the Shanti Project or other AIDS-related organizations to bring hope and comfort to those stricken with HIV/AIDS?

Can you do THAT rather than complain about being singled out for your faith?

Peace...
Kym

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It's not so many years ago;when the Iraq invasion was about to start, I think! that Billy Graham, whilst inspecting new army recruits with GW Bush, voiced that "This is Gods Army!"
Says it all does it not? Off the wall religious evangelical/born again/do it by the "book" idiots will be the death of too many innocent people.No different to the Taliban.

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As a follower of the Messiah, I am appalled at this kind of training. Yeshua/Jesus did not advocate war for any kingdom of this age. That came later with the Romans and particularly with Emperor Constatine's co-option of the majority of the bishops assembled at Nicea in AD 325. The Roman Empire's acquisition of what came to be called the catholic and orthodox branches of Christianity was written into church canon by Augustine and others. Those who believe that the Kingdom of God is the church are consistent to fight for it through the nation-state system politically and militarily.

The problem is that this is not what Jesus taught. He told Pilate that His Kingdom was not of this world or age or His servants would fight! (John 18:36-37) Yeshua is King of Israel and King of the kings of the nations, but He has not returned to claim His crowns. He came the first time to deal with individual sins according to one's faith. He comes again soon to deal with the societal sins by overturning the god of this age, Satan, and destroying the babylonish political states that rule with oppression and war with deceit in fulfillment of the Destroyer's desires.

Woe to those who teach children to sin so abominably as to war! Judgment will probably come sooner than later. For more articles along this line of reasoning go to: http://www.apocalypse2008-2015.com/articles_index.html and particluarly to "The God of Israel Loves Arabs and All Peoples" at: http://www.apocalypse2008-2015.com/God_Loves_Arabs.html.

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Just because a person calls themselves Christian doesn't actually make them Christians. The old saying "actions speak louder than words" describes many professed Christians. To know who is a genuine Christian, watch what they do and listen to what the say, then judge for yourself. GWB is a prime example. Would a true Christian wreak such hell on a people to line his own pockets and those of his greedy friends, lie about everything he does and his reasons for doing it, take away everything from the poor to give to the rich, gut childrens' programs etc? Remember what Jesus said about both the poor and little children, AND rich men.

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Long before there was a Hitler Youth or Reds we had our little fascists being raised as stormtroopers.
They are the Boy Scouts!

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Teaching kids violence is a lousy thing to do. It borders on child abuse in my opinion. So where is the FBI, (these camps do draw in kids from other states don't they?), or Child Services, or the local police?

How come these people can get away with this as long as they call themselves Christians but when the Panthers tried it in Oakland they were all slaughtered or sent to the the gulag permanently?

The cops should start doing their job rather than just collecting paychecks and sitting on their butts on the freeway waiting for a Volvo with California plates to go by.

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I am appalled at the thought of children so young having their lives committed to bigotry.We might as well move to China because I don't see this country getting better any time soon.
Why do we still have these parochial wastes of skin around?
I mean there is freedom of speech but does that not stop when speech turns hurtful. When did religion turn into this fight for survival anyhow. Nobody has a belief that has enough facts to back it up anyhow so they all fight over who has more faith and whose invisible man has the bigger belt buckle or whatever. It's all a bunch of damn nonsense but up until a few years ago they were pretty inoccuous. I think the problem may stem from too many preachers trying to fleece a smaller and smaller flock, just like lawyers getting to be too dense for the population. It takes a lot less work to sell satan to dimwits then get them to pay for protection than to find a real job. Hell I think I'll start a religious cult and retire.

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