COMMENTS: 233
When AWOL Is the Only Way Out
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"We was going along the Euphrates River," says Joshua Key, a 27-year-old former U.S. soldier from Oklahoma, detailing a recurring nightmare -- a scene he stumbled on shortly after the U.S. invasion of Iraq in March 2003. "It's a road right in the city of Ramadi. We turned a real sharp right and all I seen was decapitated bodies. The heads laying over here and the bodies over here and U.S. troops in between them. I'm thinking, 'Oh my God, what in the hell happened here? What's caused this? Why in the hell did this happen?' We get out and somebody was screaming, 'We fucking lost it here!' I'm thinking, 'Oh, yes, somebody definitely lost it here.'"
Joshua says he was ordered to look around for evidence of a firefight, for something to rationalize the beheaded Iraqis. "I look around just for a few seconds and I don't see anything." But then he noticed the sight that now triggers his nightmares. "I see two soldiers kicking the heads around like a soccer ball. I just shut my mouth, walked back, got inside the tank, shut the door, and it was like, I can't be no part of this. This is crazy. I came here to fight and be prepared for war but this is outrageous. Why did it happen? That's just my question: Why did that happen?"
He's convinced there was no firefight that led to the beheading orgy -- there were no spent shells to indicate a battle. "A lot of my friends stayed on the ground, looking to see if there was any shells. There was never no shells, except for what we shot. I'm thinking, Okay, so they just did that because they wanted to do it. They got trigger happy and they did it. That's what made me mad in Iraq. You can take human lives at a fast rate and all you have to say is, say, 'Oh, I thought they threw a grenade. I thought I seen this, I thought I seen that.' You could mow down 20 people each time and nobody's going to ask you, 'Are you sure?' They're going to give you a high five and tell you that you was doing a good job."
He still cannot get the scene out of his head. "You just see heads everywhere," he says. "You wake up, you'll just be sitting there, like you're in a foxhole. I can still see Iraq just as clearly as it was the day I was there. You'll just be on the side of a little river running through the city, trash piled up, filled with dead. Heads and stuff like that. I don't sleep that much, you might say. I don't sleep that much."
His wife, Brandi, nods in agreement and says he cries in his sleep.
We're sitting in the waning summer light on the back porch of the Toronto house where Joshua and his wife and their four little children have been living in exile since Joshua deserted to Canada. They've settled in a rent-free basement apartment, courtesy of a landlord sympathetic to their plight. Joshua smokes cigarettes and drinks coffee while we talk. He's wearing a T-shirt promoting a 2002 peace rally in Raleigh, North Carolina. There's a scraggly beard on his still-boyish face; his eyes look weary.
Sleep deprivation while on duty, first in Kuwait and then in Iraq, was routine, Joshua says, and he thinks exhaustion was generated intentionally by his commanders. "You'll do whatever the hell they say just to get that sleep. That's the way they controlled us. You ain't had no sleep and you got shitty food all the time. I got to call my wife once every month, maybe once every two weeks if I was lucky. Mail, shitty, if it even came." Food and water were inadequate, he says.
"When we first got to Kuwait we were rationed to two bottles of water a day and one MRE [meals ready to eat]. In the middle of the desert, you're supposed to have six bottles of water a day and three MREs. They tell us they don't have it. I'm thinking 'How in the hell can the most powerfullest nation, the most powerfullest military in the world, be in the middle of a damn desert and they don't even have no food to feed us?'"
Joshua rejects the U.S. government line that the Iraqis fighting the occupation are terrorists. "I'm thinking: What the hell? I mean, that's not a terrorist. That's the man's home we killed. That's his son, that's the father, that's the mother, that's the sister. Houses are destroyed. Husbands are detained and wives don't even know where they're at. I mean, them are pissed-off people, and they have a reason to be pissed off. I would never wish this upon myself or my family, so why would I do it upon them?"
Pulling security duty in the Iraqi streets, Joshua found himself talking to the locals. He was surprised by how many spoke English, and he was frustrated by the military regulations that forbade his accepting dinner invitations to join Iraqis for social evenings in their homes. "I'm not your perfect killing machine," he admits. "That's where I broke the rules. I broke the rules by having a conscience."
And the conscience developed further the more time he spent in Iraq. "I was trained to be a total killer. I was trained in booby-traps, explosives, landmines, and how to counterresolve everything." He pauses. "Hell, if you want to get technical about it, I was made to be an American terrorist. I was trained in everything a terrorist is trained to do." In case I might have missed his point, he says it again. "I mean terrorist."
Deserting to Canada seemed the only viable alternative, Joshua says. He did it, he insists, because he was lied to "by my president." Iraq -- it was obvious to him -- was no threat to the United States. He says he followed his orders while he was in Iraq, and so no one can call him a coward for deserting. "I was not a piece of shit. I always did everything I was told and I did it to the highest standards. They can never say, 'Oh, he was a piece of shit soldier.' No bullshit."
Joshua doesn't mind telling his war stories again and again. He readily agrees to talk about the horrors he experienced in Iraq, his life AWOL and underground in the States, and his new life as a deserter in Canada.
Telling the stories helps him deal with his post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), he says, and he apologizes in advance if his narrative is not linear or if he has trouble expressing himself. In fact, his scattered approach to his timeline and his machine gun-like delivery set the scene for his troubled memories -- there is nothing smooth or simple or easy to understand here.
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Jun 2, 2006 12:41 AM
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I was a soldier once and am ashamed of our country- not only of the scheming morons who got us into this mess, but for the people who knew better and went along for the ride.
I'm mad that our media has largely turned out to be a lapdog instead of a watchdog-- all they are doing now is piling on the bandwagon. I'm ashamed that there are not massive demonstrations in every city and campus in our country against this war.
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» RE: A Bottomless Black Hole
Posted by: nonaste
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Posted by: ZPaul on Jun 2, 2006 1:18 AM
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Understandably, even somebody they counted on to be docile, being the highest representative of the Iraqi people, cannot remain silent if he has a conscience, and it´s clear that these things are happening.
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Posted by: famouspipeliner on Jun 2, 2006 1:36 AM
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» RE: The Law
Posted by: carrie
» RE: The Law
Posted by: babs
» Who are the real heroes?
Posted by: Vandelez
» RE: Who are the real heroes?
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Who are the real heroes?
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Who are the real heroes?
Posted by: dreamerseye
» RE: Who are the real heroes?
Posted by: dreamerseye
» RE: Who are the real heroes?
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Who are the real heroes?
Posted by: aussidawg
» Tell your MP!
Posted by: Vandelez
» RE: The Law
Posted by: trickeychick
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Posted by: Arvy on Jun 2, 2006 1:42 AM
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I have to visit this site to remind myself that America is actually full of people with valid, intelligent things to say and a conscience to boot!
Thanks for that, perhaps some of you could add some comments to the bbc website just to show those who don't know about alternet that there's more to America than blind nationalism. Sorry if this sounds patronising but I'm sure that you'll all feel as angry as me when you read some of those comments!
Cheers!
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» RE: arv
Posted by: bg41
» RE: arv
Posted by: Arvy
» RE: arv
Posted by: jbloggz
» RE: arv
Posted by: babs
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Posted by: jonwilson on Jun 2, 2006 2:03 AM
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Why didn't Joshua make a stink about this before he wanted to get rich off his book?
What are the names of the soldiers who cut the heads off/kicked the heads around?
Did he report the incident?
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» RE: Joshua Key = lying fraud?
Posted by: bg41
» RE: Joshua Key = lying fraud?
Posted by: alterme
» RE: Joshua Key = lying fraud?
Posted by: divanne
» RE: Joshua Key = lying fraud?
Posted by: Whistler
» RE: Joshua Key = lying fraud?
Posted by: johnecolby
» and you ignore the US soldiers using their heads for soccor practice???
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Joshua Key = lying fraud?
Posted by: rhinojos
» RE: Joshua Key = lying fraud?
Posted by: zombi
» RE: Jon Wilson = dumb coward
Posted by: babs
» RE: Jonwilson = scum_of_the_earth
Posted by: blitzmesser
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Posted by: mokidugway on Jun 2, 2006 2:52 AM
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For me, that moment came quite early on, after reading one of Robert Fisk's reports during the siege of Baghdad. He said that one morning Marines had shot an old man as he approached one of the bridges they were guarding. Who knows why that civilian was there. All I could think was that somewhere in the city of Baghdad, an old woman had made coffee and was peering anxiously through the window, waiting for her husband to come home. That image kept me up, night after night.
Ever since then, I have had no faith in the United States. I go through the motions, and I try to care, and I maintain some semblance of civic responsibility because I know that is the right thing to do, but the force that had been previously compelling me to effect change--to believe in the possibility of change--is gone.
I suspect the same is true for many on the left, and that is the real reason Bush won the election in 2004, because it was a lot easier to attack a demoralized candidate like Kerry than to muster the enthusiasm it would have taken to defeat Bush. It is hard to have a positive vision when one is mourning the loss of national credibility and integrity.
Someone is going to respond to this post by saying that the United States lacked that credibility to begin with. Spare me the history lesson. I went to college in the late 70s. I studied with the Marxists who organized the sit ins who were later denied tenure. I know the drill.
Nevertheless, the fact that we openly attacked a defenseless country for strategic reasons that we dared to portray as altruistic, simply BECAUSE WE COULD--it seems that there is no atoning for a crime of that magnitude.
I know that someday Americans will look back on the invasion of Iraq as one of our darkest moments. But that moment will come too late for me, for the Iraqi citizens whose lives have been irrevocably damaged, and for soldiers like Joshua Key.
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» RE: one person's opinion
Posted by: audreyvest
» RE: one person's opinion
Posted by: monkeywrench
» RE: one person's opinion
Posted by: kwms
» RE: one person's opinion
Posted by: YogiBear
» I don't understand
Posted by: Michelle
» RE: I don't understand
Posted by: mokidugway
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Posted by: cry0fan on Jun 2, 2006 3:39 AM
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And universal healthcare paid for my progressive taxation is the one issue that could most dramatically affect the lives of the most working class Americans. This is the core of the left platform that could really open Americans' eyes to see that liberalism is something other than what Rush Limbaugh says it is--just a bunch of politically correct mandarins who can do nothing to improve the lives of ordinary Americans.
America is alone among the western nations in its regressive taxation and lack of universal healthcare.
You know that, right? Have you ever asked yourself "why"?
The answer is staring you right in the face. Alternet is a very standard, typical American Leftist/Liberal wesbite. And its stories are taken right from and reflect the core of the American left-liberal issues.
And day after day after day, not even ONE story dealing primarily with these bedrock issues of liberalism. Now we know WHY America stands alone among the western nations in its lack of universal healthcare paid for by a progressive taxation base. Because our American Left has other issues that concern it more. And why is that?
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» RE: Yet another day-Alternet has not even ONE story about universal healthcare & progressive taxation
Posted by: bg41
» RE: First Things First
Posted by: ZPaul
» RE: Yet another day-Alternet has not even ONE story about universal healthcare & progressive taxation
Posted by: solrev
» quit crying
Posted by: repo
» RE: Yet another day-Alternet has not even ONE story about universal healthcare & progressive taxation
Posted by: fenix
» too long a road
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: YO! Cry0Fan: PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH!
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Yet another day-Alternet has not even ONE story about universal healthcare & progressive taxation
Posted by: Xynyx
» cryOfanatic
Posted by: redragyn
» They say the "stuck pig squeals the loudest". Just listen to them PseudoLefties SSQQQUEEEAALLLL!!
Posted by: cry0fan
» RE: They say the "stuck pig squeals the loudest". Just listen to them PseudoLefties SSQQQUEEEAALLLL!
Posted by: babs
» RE: Yet another day-Alternet has not even ONE story about universal healthcare & progressive taxation
Posted by: the poet
» RE: Yet another day-Alternet has not even ONE story about universal healthcare & progressive taxation
Posted by: peacefulaim
» RE: Yet another day-Alternet has not even ONE story about universal healthcare & progressive taxation
Posted by: Aim
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Posted by: kgs1947 on Jun 2, 2006 3:40 AM
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» RE: Hippie = Problem! Military = Solution
Posted by: peacefulaim
» RE: Hippie = Problem! Military = Solution
Posted by: Aim
» RE: The story of horror unfolds
Posted by: bansidh@citlink.net
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Posted by: kgs1947 on Jun 2, 2006 3:40 AM
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» RE: The story of horror unfolds
Posted by: shobusun
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Jun 2, 2006 4:02 AM
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The only thing to do is to admit it, cut our losses and get the heck out of there as quickly and as orderly as possible - if "order" is even an option anymore. The far right's rationalization for this obscenity of a war from day one has been this: "Do you think the world would be better off were Saddam Hussein still in power"??? Good question. Here's my answer: "Yes"!!!! Obviously Iraq was at the very least functional before March of 2003! Saddam was a hideous bastard, no question about it. But the average Iraqi citizen could at least get through the day without the fear of being killed. All he or she had to do is behave him or her self. Am I right? Do I exaggerate?
These fucking, murderous bastards: Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, Wolfowitz and one hideous bitch (everyone's favorite House Nigger): Condi Rice - have created a deplorable situation that will take centuries to remedy. This war was never about weopons of mass destruction. It was never about democracy. Do you think for one minute that an administration that stole two elections gives a rat's ass about freedom? There was never a shred of noble purpose behind it. It was all about the oil. It was all about the fortune that a few White House insiders and their corporate connections could make off of that oil.
If you believe otherwise, you're only kidding yourself.
Pray for peace.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
hppt://tomdegan.blogspot.com/
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» RE: It's Over! but not yet
Posted by: solrev
» RE: It's Over! but not yet
Posted by: jbloggz
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: kryptx
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: rinthy
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: kryptx
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: Rod from Canada
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: kryptx
» erm
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: babs
» not entirely true
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» sorry, but i gotta say
Posted by: dissidentpoet
» RE: sorry but i gotta say
Posted by: sainthomer
» dissidentpoet, I agree and thank you for bringing this up!
Posted by: Michelle
» RE: dissidentpoet, I agree and thank you for bringing this up!
Posted by: Tom Degan
» To DISSIDENTPOET
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: repubforlife
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: babs
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: ShoShenQ
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: Aim
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Posted by: rsaxto on Jun 2, 2006 4:36 AM
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» RE: VERYONE
Posted by: solrev
» RE: VERYONE
Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: VERYONE
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: VERYONE
Posted by: oneMan
» RE: VERYONE
Posted by: badkitty
» RE: VERYONE
Posted by: babs
» RE: VERYONE
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: VERYONE
Posted by: woodford54
» PS:
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: VERYONE
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: VERYONE
Posted by: woodford54
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Posted by: Zemiti on Jun 2, 2006 5:22 AM
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» RE: ...and it gets murkier and murkierrr....Yes, and what is the agenda?
Posted by: Prophit
» What is the agenda? It's the Project for the New American Century.
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
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Posted by: medstudgeek on Jun 2, 2006 5:52 AM
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Let's quit talking about how awful American troops are compared to everyone else's and just GET THE FUCK OUT.
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» RE: What do you expect, in a WAR?
Posted by: ArtemInox
» That's why starting a war is the last thing to do rather than the first.
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: robmikejas on Jun 2, 2006 5:54 AM
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» RE: War Crimes
Posted by: StacyintheSky
» RE: War Crimes
Posted by: the poet
» RE: War Crimes
Posted by: mymarkx
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Posted by: Arvy on Jun 2, 2006 6:09 AM
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This isn't some unique, American thing. We Brits did it for a couple of hundred years (inventing concentration camps while we were at it), the Ottomans did it. The Germans, the French the Romans the Ancient Greeks…etc.
It's what 'power' does.
Here's an example (from Chomsky).
"In the 1940s, US planners recognized that (in their words) Gulf energy resources are "a stupendous source of strategic power" and "one of the greatest material prizes in world history." Naturally, they intended to control it -- though for many years they did not make much use of it themselves, and in the future, according to US intelligence, the US itself will rely on more stable Atlantic Basin resources (West Africa and the Western hemisphere). Nevertheless, it remains a very high priority to control the Gulf resources, which are expected to provide 2/3 of world energy needs for some time to come. Quite apart from yielding "profits beyond the dreams of avarice," as one leading history of the oil industry puts the matter, the region still remains "a stupendous source of strategic power," a lever of world control. Control over Gulf energy reserves provides "veto power" over the actions of rivals, as the leading planner George Kennan pointed out half a century ago. Europe and Asia understand very well, and have long been seeking independent access to energy resources. Much of the jockeying for power in the Middle East and Central Asia has to do with these issues. The populations of the region are regarded as incidental, as long as they are passive and obedient. Few know this as well as the Kurds, at least if they remember their own history."
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» RE: facts
Posted by: aussidawg
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Posted by: Arvy on Jun 2, 2006 6:14 AM
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So you have to come up with an excuse: e.g. fighting 'communism' or 'terrorism'. If you study history then you'll see that the world's greatest powers have always portrayed themselves as being under threat from some tiny, powerless nation that happens to have what they want.
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» yup
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: facts2
Posted by: Elliander
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Posted by: utatke on Jun 2, 2006 6:22 AM
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As it stands, if the new immigration law passes, there will be 66 million more immigrants in this country by 2026; Hell, the US is becoming a third world country as it is, and it is only going to get worse! What about those of us that were born here? We are supposed to keep footing the bill and paying for services that illegals and legals alike can take full advantage of, without paying their fair sharel....It is a hell of a sad commentary, and I am not optimistic about what the future holds for us!
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» RE: In sad agreement
Posted by: starvinmarvy
» um, you feel the same way?
Posted by: Michelle
» RE: In sad agreement
Posted by: montana freeman
» RE: In sad agreement
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: I'm ashamed of you, too
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: I'm ashamed of you, too
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: I'm ashamed of you, too
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: In sad agreement
Posted by: Aussie Kim
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Posted by: Shama on Jun 2, 2006 6:59 AM
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» RE: No Glory
Posted by: zipper696
» RE: No Glory
Posted by: Shama
» RE: No Glory
Posted by: montims
» RE: No Glory
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: You hate America
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: You hate America
Posted by: woodford54
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maddy on Jun 2, 2006 7:06 AM
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Consider the logic of your complaint: We should spend our time discussing only those issues that YOU have decided are important. So, universal healthcare for Americans is "worthy," while discussing the SLAUGHTER of innocent Iraqis is not. Isn't that typical of the "God bless America" = "Screw the rest of the world" mindset?
If you're so upset about what Alternet's not covering, why not get to work on your own submission? You know, actual research, rather than bluster? If you're too busy for that, why not provide Alternet with links to other websites that are addressing tax issues and universal healthcare? And, ya know what, many of them are also explicitly left-wing websites. Zmag, for example, comes to mind immediately.
An obvious point you've failed to consider: perhaps the contributions to Alternet represent the collaborative work of many many people who engage with many conflicting and complex issues in American politics and culture. Your demand for only those issues that affect you personally speaks to the collective spoiling and ignorance of many American citizens. It speaks to collective immaturity, if not collective narcissism.
And, as usual, an utter lack of empathy. "If this issue doesn't concern me, I shouldn't have to hear about it." It reminds me of a male student I had once who insisted--in a class on the HISTORY of the 1960s!!!--that he shouldn't have to learn the section on the Feminist Movement because he's male. Apparently, that student had no mother, girlfriends, female friends, sisters, etc....
Newsflash: it's not always about you. Try telling the families of those beheaded Iraqis that your healthcare costs are more important than their issues of security and survival. Last I checked, most Americans do not have to fear troops entering their home and executing them in cold blood.
A final point about logic: using a term as a point of dismissal is argumentatively weak. Calling Alternet a left/liberal website is making an obvious point, but you seem to think that by calling something "liberal" that you have effectively dismissed it in its entirety. Ridiculous. And Alternet's readership know better.
But, I apparently, I don't...as I'm wasting time feeding a troll.
Cheers.
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» RE: enough already
Posted by: Arvy
» RE: enough already - Not so.......
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: enough already - Not so.......
Posted by: Arvy
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Posted by: Jesse on Jun 2, 2006 7:52 AM
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1. What unit was Mr. Key in? Who was his CO?
2. how did he get to Canada? (This is more than a quibble, it goes a long way to authenticating the story--did he desert while intthe US or a third country? It may be there and I missed it).
3. He said he found no evidence of a firefight. OK--I'd be curious to know if he thinks the marines beheaded the Iraquis -- the implication is that he does-- and if so, how would they do it? (Beheading with a bayonet is no easy task).
I do not think he is lying, but such details would make a huge differnce. Especially naming his CO.
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» RE: A couple of things that would help
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: Arvy on Jun 2, 2006 8:06 AM
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(Had to split the link to allow it to be posted!)
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/
joe_trippi/2006/06/trippi_trippi.html
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» RE: democracy by the people
Posted by: Boronia
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Posted by: fenix on Jun 2, 2006 8:18 AM
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The sad thing, illegal workers in the us are treated better. Why because we need their labor, not their minds.
But now, we have a new story (immigration of illegal workers) to get the smoke screen going and take everyone's minds off of the the stinking, rotten, corpse; which belongs in everyones living rooms.
How about that! Every American should have to see every day pictures of the children under 5 that have been executed and killed (by the US military) all in the name of terrorism.
Think about Wounded Knee, small pox laden blankets, and thousands of woman and children that once lived on this land.
Has anything Changed???
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» RE: Soldiers are treated worse than our illegal workers
Posted by: gonzoskismet
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Posted by: debmcd on Jun 2, 2006 9:44 AM
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» RE: Deb
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Freethink7 is mentally ravaged--No, you are!
Posted by: molotov
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jun 2, 2006 3:22 PM
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Posted by: vivachavez on Jun 2, 2006 3:48 PM
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Despite the copious amount of evidence and eyetwitness accounts of the innumerable American atrocities in Iraq, I still encounter regular people on the streets who still claim that America is THE bastion of democracy and human rights. Where do I begin with these people? At my university, there is a campus columnist who continues to proudly proclaim his support for the war and nostalgically reminds his readers of how proud he felt when the invasion began. My basic perceptions of reality are undermined when I encounter such drivel and government indoctrination. This guy has clearly become intoxicated by the government Kool-Aid. I tried to argue with this guy but he sees military invasion as the only responsible thing for the U.S. to do. He still claims that the U.S. empire is benevolnet and benign. He welcomes U.S. empire. Am I looking into the eyes of evil here or what?
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» RE: Good Read
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» RE: Don't tread on me
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» RE: Don't tread on me
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Don't tread on me
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» RE: I know your type
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Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Jun 2, 2006 4:16 PM
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Yes, that's one irony of being a soldier. You're trained to follow orders until one day, you tell yourself you've had enough.
So how does a soldier plan an exit from the battlefield? It's never that easy. There's no "EXIT" sign in sight, so you fight on, hoping to survive another day.
During the battle of Stalingrad, German soldiers wanted to surrender, knowing the winter's icy grip and Hitler's bravado-and the merciless Soviet counterattack-prevented the Wehrmacht from finding the exit sign. Needless to say the German Sixth Army was nearly vanquished.
In today's armed conflicts, wars are fought mainly by airplanes, technological gadgets, smart bombs and ships who pound targets from thousands of feet away and the pilots and sailors might never see the destruction caused by a 500-pound bomb. They don't hear the cries of the innocent trapped underneath the rubble as people were in New York City five years ago.
For the foot soldier, however, death is seconds away. We've heard the news about the Marines using Iraqi civilians as target practice for their large guns, watching, as their bullets pulverize Iraqi flesh. They have to kill in order to make it home.
Since desertion is verboten, it does make sense for a soldier to escape such madness. What ever happened to "Thou shalt not kill"?
A piece of paper says it's alright to die, to kill someone in the name of whatever.
When you become a soldier, check your beliefs at the door. You're trained to kill. A soldier is nothing but a government-issued terrorist. A bullet is waiting for you on the other side of the world. You may survive a battle, get wounded, but is it REALLY worth it? Don't you have nightmares of seeing what your guns has done to a person's head? How can you live with yourself?
But it was your decision. A soldier becomes government property- a pawn in the chess game.
There's no glory in death, destruction, getting wounded, and sometimes the scars never heal. And when the soldier comes home his world is foreign to him/her and they still have another war to fight: a return to what was once before. So forget all those wartime Hollywood movies.
Now there's no end to it. The exit sign can be found inside a flag-draped coffin.
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» RE: Where's the exit??
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» Spanky69, you are a fucking disgrace.
Posted by: molotov
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Posted by: gonzoskismet on Jun 2, 2006 4:25 PM
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It's kinda like Ripley in the Alien Movies. When ya get back, you don't trust anybody. You can't talk to any of them about how you've been living. Hell, they wouldn't believe you anyway. They think all this shit has been for 'Democracy' and the Good of America. If you tell them you've committed murder to stay alive, they'll just say you were fighting Communism or terrorism or any other fucking ism to justify what you've done.
I'm glad you made it out, dude. And God, at least understands what you went through. You'll cry a lot of tears. You'll have a lot of bad nights. It took me ten years, a lot of drugs and alcohol and a REALLY GOOD WOMAN to pull my shit outta the fire but IT CAN HAPPEN, my brother. Just hang in there. it can get better. Just don't expect the bastards that sent you into this shit or the people who supported them to understand.
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» RE: A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood....
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» RE: A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood....
Posted by: hotlipsin61
» RE: A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood....
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» RE: A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood....
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Posted by: mozkill on Jun 2, 2006 5:06 PM
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» RE: doesn't anyone care about "who" cut peoples heads off?
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: doesn't anyone care about "who" cut peoples heads off?
Posted by: sasha40
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Posted by: DennisEoin on Jun 3, 2006 4:56 AM
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The status of ‘Conscientious Objector’ may be dismissed out of hand for one whom is completely unwilling to sign on to Military Service, or simply an unknown option. But against one who Has served, and is no longer willing to serve because of nights filled with dreams of mankind’s horrific de-humanizing of our fellow Homo Sapiens. Isn’t that a circumstance of relevance to be argued with reasonable doubt?
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» RE: Conscientious Objector
Posted by: kc10ken
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Posted by: mistery509 on Jun 3, 2006 9:11 AM
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1) sad
2) unhappy
3) angry
4) frustrated
5) furious
Remember if you fight back you become a terrorist, or insurgent and will be hunted down and killed or tortured.
Imagine if this was reversed and was happening in America.
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» Mark my words, coming soon to a neighborhood near you......
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Mark my words, coming soon to a neighborhood near you......
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: how would you feel...
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: how would you feel...
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: how would you feel...
Posted by: woodford54
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Posted by: nor cal surfer on Jun 3, 2006 10:47 AM
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the 'War on Terra' (sic) would end in about 14 minutes.
or less.
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Posted by: nonaste on Jun 3, 2006 2:20 PM
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» RE: I do what I can
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» RE: love it
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» RE: Ohhhhh, Spank Me
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Posted by: thorlives on Jun 3, 2006 6:08 PM
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» RE: thorlives
Posted by: armybrat8
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Posted by: Reader11722 on Jun 3, 2006 11:42 PM
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Also, another good book I read (that is obviously stirring up the 'powers that be' because they had it removed from Amazon despite brisk sales) called "America Deceived" by E.A. Blayre III is worth reading. Some racy stuff about Foxnews anchors probably was the reason for its removal. Here's a link:
http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/
book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0
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Posted by: SaveOurTroops on Jun 4, 2006 4:28 AM
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"Support Our Troops" is a failed idea and was only used to prop up the Republican Party national elections. Families of soldiers fell for the ruse. It's time for a change-- "Save Our Troops!". Educate your fellow drivers!
And don't you hate Bush's favorite speech phrase "American people"? Everytime he says it it sounds like he's referring to dollar signs- $$ - "American People" - Profit Potential!
Meantime, more American People are quietly becoming destitute and displaced while the fat US regime pats its horrid stomach and picks its teeth.
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Posted by: mossad on Jun 4, 2006 4:34 AM
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Its like teaching our kid not to lie and then minutes later asking the Kid to answer the phone and say Dad/Mom arenot at home . The Armed Forces are full of such people , and they use uniform , medals and decoration with ranks to attain a false sense of pride , honour and integrity , when it does not exist on the core level.
Nothing is a secret in this world, some things take more time than others to surface and I think people forget while taking action that sooner or later , time will catch up with them.
Its not really about America , its about all those people who project themselves to be above board and incongruently are living the life exactly opposite of what they speak.
America has been an icon of freedom and ethics till now and as things are showing the rot has set in long back and if nothing is done , USA will convert into a third world country with a repressed and socially unviable population . It looks inevitable by the actions in Iraq and by the failure to accept the mistakes .
The worlds biggest disease is not AIDs . It is self denial and living in a false hope that noone will find out anything!!!!
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» RE: Are Honour and Integrity Simply Spoken Words Now!
Posted by: mossad
» RE: Are Honour and Integrity Simply Spoken Words Now!
Posted by: mossad
» RE: Libs just don't understand.
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Open your eyes
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» RE: Open your eyes
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» RE: Open your eyes
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» RE: Open your eyes
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» RE: Open your eyes
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Posted by: Meremark on Jun 4, 2006 8:27 AM
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the Prez Duncey is Texas National Guard AWOL, and Nat'l Guard doesn't care.
-
the Prez Duncy is Nat'l Guard - D E S E R T E R RIGHT NOW Today ! ! and nobody cares.
- Follow the leader - Go A W O L --- -- - -- - - -
-
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» So fu*king sue me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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» RE: Sofa King - GAWD, Spankypoo!!
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» RE: Sofa King
Posted by: Aim
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Posted by: aussidawg on Jun 4, 2006 12:42 PM
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» Because your military and counterintel which means your brain washed.....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Winning an Argument on Alternet
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» RE: Winning an Argument on Alternet
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» RE: Winning an Argument on Alternet
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» RE: Winning an Argument on Alternet
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» RE: Winning an Argument on Alternet
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» RE: Winning an Argument on Alternet
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» RE: Winning an Argument on Alternet
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» RE: Winning an Argument on Alternet
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Posted by: kc10ken on Jun 5, 2006 5:24 AM
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He looked at me like I was an alien that just stepped off a UFO! He then told me "I can't put that down as an official reason why you're not reenlisting" and I told him to write it down word for word. Three years later, everything I said and predicted would happen in Iraq, happened EXACTLY the way I said it would. Two weeks after I left the Air Force, the DOD kicked in a stop loss (preventing ANYONE irregardless of status) from leaving the service. Three weeks after that the we invaded Iraq and they mobilized my unit and sent them to the middle east. You should hear what my former fellow service members are saying now about my move and revelations back in February of 2003!
I'd like to remind everyone out there.....PLEASE don't lay ALL the blame for these atrocities that are taking place on our forces. They are stressed beyond reckognition in an impossible situation where just staying alive for another day is the name of the game. Their mission is ill defined, they are ill equipped, they've been involuntarily activated, mobilized, tours extended 3 times and stop lossed into oblivion and are FED THE HELL UP!
Put the blame where it belongs......at the White House Door step!
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» RE: THIS COMBAT VET REFUSED TO REENLIST............
Posted by: mossad
» Same Problem with IAF
Posted by: mossad
» RE: THIS COMBAT VET REFUSED TO REENLIST............
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» RE: THIS COMBAT VET REFUSED TO REENLIST............
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: THIS COMBAT VET REFUSED TO REENLIST............
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» RE: elief efforts
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» RE: elief efforts
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» RE: THIS COMBAT VET REFUSED TO REENLIST............
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» RE: THIS COMBAT VET REFUSED TO REENLIST............
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: THIS COMBAT VET REFUSED TO REENLIST............
Posted by: Aim
» RE: Libs blame troops
Posted by: Aim
» RE: Libs blame troops
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Libs blame troops
Posted by: woodford54
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Posted by: Chuck Norris on Jun 5, 2006 8:18 PM
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It takes courage to admit "defeat".
I was intuitive enough to know that this war was bad news and that thewy were fighting for oil when it began in 2003. We must also remember that Iraq WAS a threat to SOMEONE ELSE...namely that horrible little terrorist "nation"...named Israel...I sure as hell wouldn't die for Israel. You'd have to kill me and ship my body across the ocean to go over there.
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» RE: Sound Piece of Advice
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Hillary and John Stewart are calling you
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» RE: Sound Piece of Advice
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Posted by: gacaiola on Jun 7, 2006 8:28 AM
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» RE: sophia
Posted by: Elliander
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Posted by: Elliander on Jun 7, 2006 4:43 PM
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To validate some of his claims about the poor treatment, I would like to point out that a few months ago on C-Span I watched something come up about poor treatment of Soldiers. Apparently, the company responsibly for bringing them water, was instead using river water downstream of sewage dump that was treated only by being drained through gravel. Multiple soldiers came forward with Parasites after the fact. It was not used for drinking, but it was used in camps for washing, shaving, showers, etc. They claimed it was safe, but in America such water treatment is only acceptable if you are using it as part of a septic system to replace ground water. They used the excuse that there is no direct link, but if someone goes in healthy and leaves with an exotic parasite and this happens to many soldiers, you know something is wrong.
But it isn't even just the physicle care.. the phychological... our troops are being killed slowly on the inside. It is really sad to see and hear about.
Those of us who oppose the war often get the tried and true speech "Support our troops" but the only one who fails to support our troops are the very people who send them there.
Currently, they are not allowed to leave even if their contract ends. The contract is one way. Once in, you have no guarentee of getting out.
I think, at the very least, the way troops are treated needs to change.
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» RE: Our complaints are mostly about the way we're portrayed
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Our complaints are mostly about the way we're portrayed
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» RE: Compromise
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» RE: Compromise
Posted by: mossad
» RE: Spanky needs Spanky
Posted by: mossad
» RE: Spanky needs Spanky
Posted by: woodford54
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Posted by: mossad on Jun 10, 2006 10:40 PM
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There is need to weed out the mindset of men in uniform like Spanky who bring collective bad name to the services by their individual actions.
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» RE: Too bad you're a coward
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» RE: The American Soldier
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: The American Soldier
Posted by: mossad
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Posted by: mossad on Jun 17, 2006 2:15 AM
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http://tinyurl.com/prugv
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Jun 2, 2006 12:41 AM
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I was a soldier once and am ashamed of our country- not only of the scheming morons who got us into this mess, but for the people who knew better and went along for the ride.
I'm mad that our media has largely turned out to be a lapdog instead of a watchdog-- all they are doing now is piling on the bandwagon. I'm ashamed that there are not massive demonstrations in every city and campus in our country against this war.
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» RE: A Bottomless Black Hole
Posted by: nonaste
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Posted by: ZPaul on Jun 2, 2006 1:18 AM
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Understandably, even somebody they counted on to be docile, being the highest representative of the Iraqi people, cannot remain silent if he has a conscience, and it´s clear that these things are happening.
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Posted by: famouspipeliner on Jun 2, 2006 1:36 AM
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» RE: The Law
Posted by: carrie
» RE: The Law
Posted by: babs
» Who are the real heroes?
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» RE: Who are the real heroes?
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» RE: Who are the real heroes?
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» RE: Who are the real heroes?
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» RE: Who are the real heroes?
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» RE: Who are the real heroes?
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» RE: Who are the real heroes?
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» Tell your MP!
Posted by: Vandelez
» RE: The Law
Posted by: trickeychick
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Posted by: Arvy on Jun 2, 2006 1:42 AM
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I have to visit this site to remind myself that America is actually full of people with valid, intelligent things to say and a conscience to boot!
Thanks for that, perhaps some of you could add some comments to the bbc website just to show those who don't know about alternet that there's more to America than blind nationalism. Sorry if this sounds patronising but I'm sure that you'll all feel as angry as me when you read some of those comments!
Cheers!
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» RE: arv
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» RE: arv
Posted by: jbloggz
» RE: arv
Posted by: babs
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Posted by: jonwilson on Jun 2, 2006 2:03 AM
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Why didn't Joshua make a stink about this before he wanted to get rich off his book?
What are the names of the soldiers who cut the heads off/kicked the heads around?
Did he report the incident?
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» RE: Joshua Key = lying fraud?
Posted by: bg41
» RE: Joshua Key = lying fraud?
Posted by: alterme
» RE: Joshua Key = lying fraud?
Posted by: divanne
» RE: Joshua Key = lying fraud?
Posted by: Whistler
» RE: Joshua Key = lying fraud?
Posted by: johnecolby
» and you ignore the US soldiers using their heads for soccor practice???
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Joshua Key = lying fraud?
Posted by: rhinojos
» RE: Joshua Key = lying fraud?
Posted by: zombi
» RE: Jon Wilson = dumb coward
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» RE: Jonwilson = scum_of_the_earth
Posted by: blitzmesser
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Posted by: mokidugway on Jun 2, 2006 2:52 AM
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For me, that moment came quite early on, after reading one of Robert Fisk's reports during the siege of Baghdad. He said that one morning Marines had shot an old man as he approached one of the bridges they were guarding. Who knows why that civilian was there. All I could think was that somewhere in the city of Baghdad, an old woman had made coffee and was peering anxiously through the window, waiting for her husband to come home. That image kept me up, night after night.
Ever since then, I have had no faith in the United States. I go through the motions, and I try to care, and I maintain some semblance of civic responsibility because I know that is the right thing to do, but the force that had been previously compelling me to effect change--to believe in the possibility of change--is gone.
I suspect the same is true for many on the left, and that is the real reason Bush won the election in 2004, because it was a lot easier to attack a demoralized candidate like Kerry than to muster the enthusiasm it would have taken to defeat Bush. It is hard to have a positive vision when one is mourning the loss of national credibility and integrity.
Someone is going to respond to this post by saying that the United States lacked that credibility to begin with. Spare me the history lesson. I went to college in the late 70s. I studied with the Marxists who organized the sit ins who were later denied tenure. I know the drill.
Nevertheless, the fact that we openly attacked a defenseless country for strategic reasons that we dared to portray as altruistic, simply BECAUSE WE COULD--it seems that there is no atoning for a crime of that magnitude.
I know that someday Americans will look back on the invasion of Iraq as one of our darkest moments. But that moment will come too late for me, for the Iraqi citizens whose lives have been irrevocably damaged, and for soldiers like Joshua Key.
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» RE: one person's opinion
Posted by: audreyvest
» RE: one person's opinion
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» RE: one person's opinion
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» RE: one person's opinion
Posted by: YogiBear
» I don't understand
Posted by: Michelle
» RE: I don't understand
Posted by: mokidugway
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Posted by: cry0fan on Jun 2, 2006 3:39 AM
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And universal healthcare paid for my progressive taxation is the one issue that could most dramatically affect the lives of the most working class Americans. This is the core of the left platform that could really open Americans' eyes to see that liberalism is something other than what Rush Limbaugh says it is--just a bunch of politically correct mandarins who can do nothing to improve the lives of ordinary Americans.
America is alone among the western nations in its regressive taxation and lack of universal healthcare.
You know that, right? Have you ever asked yourself "why"?
The answer is staring you right in the face. Alternet is a very standard, typical American Leftist/Liberal wesbite. And its stories are taken right from and reflect the core of the American left-liberal issues.
And day after day after day, not even ONE story dealing primarily with these bedrock issues of liberalism. Now we know WHY America stands alone among the western nations in its lack of universal healthcare paid for by a progressive taxation base. Because our American Left has other issues that concern it more. And why is that?
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» RE: Yet another day-Alternet has not even ONE story about universal healthcare & progressive taxation
Posted by: bg41
» RE: First Things First
Posted by: ZPaul
» RE: Yet another day-Alternet has not even ONE story about universal healthcare & progressive taxation
Posted by: solrev
» quit crying
Posted by: repo
» RE: Yet another day-Alternet has not even ONE story about universal healthcare & progressive taxation
Posted by: fenix
» too long a road
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: YO! Cry0Fan: PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH!
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Yet another day-Alternet has not even ONE story about universal healthcare & progressive taxation
Posted by: Xynyx
» cryOfanatic
Posted by: redragyn
» They say the "stuck pig squeals the loudest". Just listen to them PseudoLefties SSQQQUEEEAALLLL!!
Posted by: cry0fan
» RE: They say the "stuck pig squeals the loudest". Just listen to them PseudoLefties SSQQQUEEEAALLLL!
Posted by: babs
» RE: Yet another day-Alternet has not even ONE story about universal healthcare & progressive taxation
Posted by: the poet
» RE: Yet another day-Alternet has not even ONE story about universal healthcare & progressive taxation
Posted by: peacefulaim
» RE: Yet another day-Alternet has not even ONE story about universal healthcare & progressive taxation
Posted by: Aim
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Posted by: kgs1947 on Jun 2, 2006 3:40 AM
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» RE: Hippie = Problem! Military = Solution
Posted by: peacefulaim
» RE: Hippie = Problem! Military = Solution
Posted by: Aim
» RE: The story of horror unfolds
Posted by: bansidh@citlink.net
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Posted by: kgs1947 on Jun 2, 2006 3:40 AM
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» RE: The story of horror unfolds
Posted by: shobusun
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Jun 2, 2006 4:02 AM
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The only thing to do is to admit it, cut our losses and get the heck out of there as quickly and as orderly as possible - if "order" is even an option anymore. The far right's rationalization for this obscenity of a war from day one has been this: "Do you think the world would be better off were Saddam Hussein still in power"??? Good question. Here's my answer: "Yes"!!!! Obviously Iraq was at the very least functional before March of 2003! Saddam was a hideous bastard, no question about it. But the average Iraqi citizen could at least get through the day without the fear of being killed. All he or she had to do is behave him or her self. Am I right? Do I exaggerate?
These fucking, murderous bastards: Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, Wolfowitz and one hideous bitch (everyone's favorite House Nigger): Condi Rice - have created a deplorable situation that will take centuries to remedy. This war was never about weopons of mass destruction. It was never about democracy. Do you think for one minute that an administration that stole two elections gives a rat's ass about freedom? There was never a shred of noble purpose behind it. It was all about the oil. It was all about the fortune that a few White House insiders and their corporate connections could make off of that oil.
If you believe otherwise, you're only kidding yourself.
Pray for peace.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
hppt://tomdegan.blogspot.com/
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» RE: It's Over! but not yet
Posted by: solrev
» RE: It's Over! but not yet
Posted by: jbloggz
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: kryptx
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: rinthy
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: kryptx
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: Rod from Canada
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: kryptx
» erm
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: babs
» not entirely true
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» sorry, but i gotta say
Posted by: dissidentpoet
» RE: sorry but i gotta say
Posted by: sainthomer
» dissidentpoet, I agree and thank you for bringing this up!
Posted by: Michelle
» RE: dissidentpoet, I agree and thank you for bringing this up!
Posted by: Tom Degan
» To DISSIDENTPOET
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: repubforlife
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: babs
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: ShoShenQ
» RE: It's Over!
Posted by: Aim
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rsaxto on Jun 2, 2006 4:36 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: VERYONE
Posted by: solrev
» RE: VERYONE
Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: VERYONE
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: VERYONE
Posted by: oneMan
» RE: VERYONE
Posted by: badkitty
» RE: VERYONE
Posted by: babs
» RE: VERYONE
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: VERYONE
Posted by: woodford54
» PS:
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: VERYONE
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: VERYONE
Posted by: woodford54
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Zemiti on Jun 2, 2006 5:22 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: ...and it gets murkier and murkierrr....Yes, and what is the agenda?
Posted by: Prophit
» What is the agenda? It's the Project for the New American Century.
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
Comments are closed-
Posted by: medstudgeek on Jun 2, 2006 5:52 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's quit talking about how awful American troops are compared to everyone else's and just GET THE FUCK OUT.
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» RE: What do you expect, in a WAR?
Posted by: ArtemInox
» That's why starting a war is the last thing to do rather than the first.
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: robmikejas on Jun 2, 2006 5:54 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: War Crimes
Posted by: StacyintheSky
» RE: War Crimes
Posted by: the poet
» RE: War Crimes
Posted by: mymarkx
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Arvy on Jun 2, 2006 6:09 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This isn't some unique, American thing. We Brits did it for a couple of hundred years (inventing concentration camps while we were at it), the Ottomans did it. The Germans, the French the Romans the Ancient Greeks…etc.
It's what 'power' does.
Here's an example (from Chomsky).
"In the 1940s, US planners recognized that (in their words) Gulf energy resources are "a stupendous source of strategic power" and "one of the greatest material prizes in world history." Naturally, they intended to control it -- though for many years they did not make much use of it themselves, and in the future, according to US intelligence, the US itself will rely on more stable Atlantic Basin resources (West Africa and the Western hemisphere). Nevertheless, it remains a very high priority to control the Gulf resources, which are expected to provide 2/3 of world energy needs for some time to come. Quite apart from yielding "profits beyond the dreams of avarice," as one leading history of the oil industry puts the matter, the region still remains "a stupendous source of strategic power," a lever of world control. Control over Gulf energy reserves provides "veto power" over the actions of rivals, as the leading planner George Kennan pointed out half a century ago. Europe and Asia understand very well, and have long been seeking independent access to energy resources. Much of the jockeying for power in the Middle East and Central Asia has to do with these issues. The populations of the region are regarded as incidental, as long as they are passive and obedient. Few know this as well as the Kurds, at least if they remember their own history."
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» RE: facts
Posted by: aussidawg
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Arvy on Jun 2, 2006 6:14 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So you have to come up with an excuse: e.g. fighting 'communism' or 'terrorism'. If you study history then you'll see that the world's greatest powers have always portrayed themselves as being under threat from some tiny, powerless nation that happens to have what they want.
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» yup
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: facts2
Posted by: Elliander
Comments are closed-
Posted by: utatke on Jun 2, 2006 6:22 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As it stands, if the new immigration law passes, there will be 66 million more immigrants in this country by 2026; Hell, the US is becoming a third world country as it is, and it is only going to get worse! What about those of us that were born here? We are supposed to keep footing the bill and paying for services that illegals and legals alike can take full advantage of, without paying their fair sharel....It is a hell of a sad commentary, and I am not optimistic about what the future holds for us!
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» RE: In sad agreement
Posted by: starvinmarvy
» um, you feel the same way?
Posted by: Michelle
» RE: In sad agreement
Posted by: montana freeman
» RE: In sad agreement
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: I'm ashamed of you, too
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: I'm ashamed of you, too
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: I'm ashamed of you, too
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: In sad agreement
Posted by: Aussie Kim
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Shama on Jun 2, 2006 6:59 AM
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» RE: No Glory
Posted by: zipper696
» RE: No Glory
Posted by: Shama
» RE: No Glory
Posted by: montims
» RE: No Glory
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: You hate America
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: You hate America
Posted by: woodford54
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maddy on Jun 2, 2006 7:06 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Consider the logic of your complaint: We should spend our time discussing only those issues that YOU have decided are important. So, universal healthcare for Americans is "worthy," while discussing the SLAUGHTER of innocent Iraqis is not. Isn't that typical of the "God bless America" = "Screw the rest of the world" mindset?
If you're so upset about what Alternet's not covering, why not get to work on your own submission? You know, actual research, rather than bluster? If you're too busy for that, why not provide Alternet with links to other websites that are addressing tax issues and universal healthcare? And, ya know what, many of them are also explicitly left-wing websites. Zmag, for example, comes to mind immediately.
An obvious point you've failed to consider: perhaps the contributions to Alternet represent the collaborative work of many many people who engage with many conflicting and complex issues in American politics and culture. Your demand for only those issues that affect you personally speaks to the collective spoiling and ignorance of many American citizens. It speaks to collective immaturity, if not collective narcissism.
And, as usual, an utter lack of empathy. "If this issue doesn't concern me, I shouldn't have to hear about it." It reminds me of a male student I had once who insisted--in a class on the HISTORY of the 1960s!!!--that he shouldn't have to learn the section on the Feminist Movement because he's male. Apparently, that student had no mother, girlfriends, female friends, sisters, etc....
Newsflash: it's not always about you. Try telling the families of those beheaded Iraqis that your healthcare costs are more important than their issues of security and survival. Last I checked, most Americans do not have to fear troops entering their home and executing them in cold blood.
A final point about logic: using a term as a point of dismissal is argumentatively weak. Calling Alternet a left/liberal website is making an obvious point, but you seem to think that by calling something "liberal" that you have effectively dismissed it in its entirety. Ridiculous. And Alternet's readership know better.
But, I apparently, I don't...as I'm wasting time feeding a troll.
Cheers.
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» RE: enough already
Posted by: Arvy
» RE: enough already - Not so.......
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: enough already - Not so.......
Posted by: Arvy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Jesse on Jun 2, 2006 7:52 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. What unit was Mr. Key in? Who was his CO?
2. how did he get to Canada? (This is more than a quibble, it goes a long way to authenticating the story--did he desert while intthe US or a third country? It may be there and I missed it).
3. He said he found no evidence of a firefight. OK--I'd be curious to know if he thinks the marines beheaded the Iraquis -- the implication is that he does-- and if so, how would they do it? (Beheading with a bayonet is no easy task).
I do not think he is lying, but such details would make a huge differnce. Especially naming his CO.
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» RE: A couple of things that would help
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Arvy on Jun 2, 2006 8:06 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(Had to split the link to allow it to be posted!)
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/
joe_trippi/2006/06/trippi_trippi.html
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» RE: democracy by the people
Posted by: Boronia
Comments are closed-
Posted by: fenix on Jun 2, 2006 8:18 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The sad thing, illegal workers in the us are treated better. Why because we need their labor, not their minds.
But now, we have a new story (immigration of illegal workers) to get the smoke screen going and take everyone's minds off of the the stinking, rotten, corpse; which belongs in everyones living rooms.
How about that! Every American should have to see every day pictures of the children under 5 that have been executed and killed (by the US military) all in the name of terrorism.
Think about Wounded Knee, small pox laden blankets, and thousands of woman and children that once lived on this land.
Has anything Changed???
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» RE: Soldiers are treated worse than our illegal workers
Posted by: gonzoskismet
Comments are closed-
Posted by: debmcd on Jun 2, 2006 9:44 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Deb
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Freethink7 is mentally ravaged--No, you are!
Posted by: molotov
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jun 2, 2006 3:22 PM
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Posted by: vivachavez on Jun 2, 2006 3:48 PM
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Despite the copious amount of evidence and eyetwitness accounts of the innumerable American atrocities in Iraq, I still encounter regular people on the streets who still claim that America is THE bastion of democracy and human rights. Where do I begin with these people? At my university, there is a campus columnist who continues to proudly proclaim his support for the war and nostalgically reminds his readers of how proud he felt when the invasion began. My basic perceptions of reality are undermined when I encounter such drivel and government indoctrination. This guy has clearly become intoxicated by the government Kool-Aid. I tried to argue with this guy but he sees military invasion as the only responsible thing for the U.S. to do. He still claims that the U.S. empire is benevolnet and benign. He welcomes U.S. empire. Am I looking into the eyes of evil here or what?
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» RE: Good Read
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Don't tread on me
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Don't tread on me
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Don't tread on me
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: I know your type
Posted by: woodford54
Comments are closed-
Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Jun 2, 2006 4:16 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, that's one irony of being a soldier. You're trained to follow orders until one day, you tell yourself you've had enough.
So how does a soldier plan an exit from the battlefield? It's never that easy. There's no "EXIT" sign in sight, so you fight on, hoping to survive another day.
During the battle of Stalingrad, German soldiers wanted to surrender, knowing the winter's icy grip and Hitler's bravado-and the merciless Soviet counterattack-prevented the Wehrmacht from finding the exit sign. Needless to say the German Sixth Army was nearly vanquished.
In today's armed conflicts, wars are fought mainly by airplanes, technological gadgets, smart bombs and ships who pound targets from thousands of feet away and the pilots and sailors might never see the destruction caused by a 500-pound bomb. They don't hear the cries of the innocent trapped underneath the rubble as people were in New York City five years ago.
For the foot soldier, however, death is seconds away. We've heard the news about the Marines using Iraqi civilians as target practice for their large guns, watching, as their bullets pulverize Iraqi flesh. They have to kill in order to make it home.
Since desertion is verboten, it does make sense for a soldier to escape such madness. What ever happened to "Thou shalt not kill"?
A piece of paper says it's alright to die, to kill someone in the name of whatever.
When you become a soldier, check your beliefs at the door. You're trained to kill. A soldier is nothing but a government-issued terrorist. A bullet is waiting for you on the other side of the world. You may survive a battle, get wounded, but is it REALLY worth it? Don't you have nightmares of seeing what your guns has done to a person's head? How can you live with yourself?
But it was your decision. A soldier becomes government property- a pawn in the chess game.
There's no glory in death, destruction, getting wounded, and sometimes the scars never heal. And when the soldier comes home his world is foreign to him/her and they still have another war to fight: a return to what was once before. So forget all those wartime Hollywood movies.
Now there's no end to it. The exit sign can be found inside a flag-draped coffin.
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» RE: Where's the exit??
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» Spanky69, you are a fucking disgrace.
Posted by: molotov
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gonzoskismet on Jun 2, 2006 4:25 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's kinda like Ripley in the Alien Movies. When ya get back, you don't trust anybody. You can't talk to any of them about how you've been living. Hell, they wouldn't believe you anyway. They think all this shit has been for 'Democracy' and the Good of America. If you tell them you've committed murder to stay alive, they'll just say you were fighting Communism or terrorism or any other fucking ism to justify what you've done.
I'm glad you made it out, dude. And God, at least understands what you went through. You'll cry a lot of tears. You'll have a lot of bad nights. It took me ten years, a lot of drugs and alcohol and a REALLY GOOD WOMAN to pull my shit outta the fire but IT CAN HAPPEN, my brother. Just hang in there. it can get better. Just don't expect the bastards that sent you into this shit or the people who supported them to understand.
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» RE: A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood....
Posted by: starvinmarvy
» RE: A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood....
Posted by: hotlipsin61
» RE: A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood....
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood....
Posted by: hotlipsin61
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mozkill on Jun 2, 2006 5:06 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: doesn't anyone care about "who" cut peoples heads off?
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: doesn't anyone care about "who" cut peoples heads off?
Posted by: sasha40
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DennisEoin on Jun 3, 2006 4:56 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The status of ‘Conscientious Objector’ may be dismissed out of hand for one whom is completely unwilling to sign on to Military Service, or simply an unknown option. But against one who Has served, and is no longer willing to serve because of nights filled with dreams of mankind’s horrific de-humanizing of our fellow Homo Sapiens. Isn’t that a circumstance of relevance to be argued with reasonable doubt?
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» RE: Conscientious Objector
Posted by: kc10ken
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Posted by: mistery509 on Jun 3, 2006 9:11 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) sad
2) unhappy
3) angry
4) frustrated
5) furious
Remember if you fight back you become a terrorist, or insurgent and will be hunted down and killed or tortured.
Imagine if this was reversed and was happening in America.
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» Mark my words, coming soon to a neighborhood near you......
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Mark my words, coming soon to a neighborhood near you......
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: how would you feel...
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: how would you feel...
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: how would you feel...
Posted by: woodford54
Comments are closed-
Posted by: nor cal surfer on Jun 3, 2006 10:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the 'War on Terra' (sic) would end in about 14 minutes.
or less.
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Posted by: nonaste on Jun 3, 2006 2:20 PM
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» RE: I do what I can
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: I do what I can
Posted by: Aim
» RE: I do what you can't!
Posted by: Aim
» RE: love it
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Ohhhhh, Spank Me
Posted by: woodford54
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thorlives on Jun 3, 2006 6:08 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: thorlives
Posted by: armybrat8
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Posted by: Reader11722 on Jun 3, 2006 11:42 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also, another good book I read (that is obviously stirring up the 'powers that be' because they had it removed from Amazon despite brisk sales) called "America Deceived" by E.A. Blayre III is worth reading. Some racy stuff about Foxnews anchors probably was the reason for its removal. Here's a link:
http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/
book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0
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Posted by: SaveOurTroops on Jun 4, 2006 4:28 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Support Our Troops" is a failed idea and was only used to prop up the Republican Party national elections. Families of soldiers fell for the ruse. It's time for a change-- "Save Our Troops!". Educate your fellow drivers!
And don't you hate Bush's favorite speech phrase "American people"? Everytime he says it it sounds like he's referring to dollar signs- $$ - "American People" - Profit Potential!
Meantime, more American People are quietly becoming destitute and displaced while the fat US regime pats its horrid stomach and picks its teeth.
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Posted by: mossad on Jun 4, 2006 4:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its like teaching our kid not to lie and then minutes later asking the Kid to answer the phone and say Dad/Mom arenot at home . The Armed Forces are full of such people , and they use uniform , medals and decoration with ranks to attain a false sense of pride , honour and integrity , when it does not exist on the core level.
Nothing is a secret in this world, some things take more time than others to surface and I think people forget while taking action that sooner or later , time will catch up with them.
Its not really about America , its about all those people who project themselves to be above board and incongruently are living the life exactly opposite of what they speak.
America has been an icon of freedom and ethics till now and as things are showing the rot has set in long back and if nothing is done , USA will convert into a third world country with a repressed and socially unviable population . It looks inevitable by the actions in Iraq and by the failure to accept the mistakes .
The worlds biggest disease is not AIDs . It is self denial and living in a false hope that noone will find out anything!!!!
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» RE: Are Honour and Integrity Simply Spoken Words Now!
Posted by: mossad
» RE: Are Honour and Integrity Simply Spoken Words Now!
Posted by: mossad
» RE: Libs just don't understand.
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Open your eyes
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Open your eyes
Posted by: mossad
» RE: Open your eyes
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Open your eyes
Posted by: mossad
» RE: Open your eyes
Posted by: woodford54
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Meremark on Jun 4, 2006 8:27 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the Prez Duncey is Texas National Guard AWOL, and Nat'l Guard doesn't care.
-
the Prez Duncy is Nat'l Guard - D E S E R T E R RIGHT NOW Today ! ! and nobody cares.
- Follow the leader - Go A W O L --- -- - -- - - -
-
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» So fu*king sue me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Sofa King - GAWD, Spankypoo!!
Posted by: Aim
» RE: Sofa King
Posted by: Aim
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aussidawg on Jun 4, 2006 12:42 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Because your military and counterintel which means your brain washed.....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Winning an Argument on Alternet
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: Winning an Argument on Alternet
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: Winning an Argument on Alternet
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Winning an Argument on Alternet
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Winning an Argument on Alternet
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Winning an Argument on Alternet
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Winning an Argument on Alternet
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Winning an Argument on Alternet
Posted by: woodford54
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kc10ken on Jun 5, 2006 5:24 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He looked at me like I was an alien that just stepped off a UFO! He then told me "I can't put that down as an official reason why you're not reenlisting" and I told him to write it down word for word. Three years later, everything I said and predicted would happen in Iraq, happened EXACTLY the way I said it would. Two weeks after I left the Air Force, the DOD kicked in a stop loss (preventing ANYONE irregardless of status) from leaving the service. Three weeks after that the we invaded Iraq and they mobilized my unit and sent them to the middle east. You should hear what my former fellow service members are saying now about my move and revelations back in February of 2003!
I'd like to remind everyone out there.....PLEASE don't lay ALL the blame for these atrocities that are taking place on our forces. They are stressed beyond reckognition in an impossible situation where just staying alive for another day is the name of the game. Their mission is ill defined, they are ill equipped, they've been involuntarily activated, mobilized, tours extended 3 times and stop lossed into oblivion and are FED THE HELL UP!
Put the blame where it belongs......at the White House Door step!
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» RE: THIS COMBAT VET REFUSED TO REENLIST............
Posted by: mossad
» Same Problem with IAF
Posted by: mossad
» RE: THIS COMBAT VET REFUSED TO REENLIST............
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: THIS COMBAT VET REFUSED TO REENLIST............
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: THIS COMBAT VET REFUSED TO REENLIST............
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: elief efforts
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: elief efforts
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: THIS COMBAT VET REFUSED TO REENLIST............
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: THIS COMBAT VET REFUSED TO REENLIST............
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: THIS COMBAT VET REFUSED TO REENLIST............
Posted by: Aim
» RE: Libs blame troops
Posted by: Aim
» RE: Libs blame troops
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Libs blame troops
Posted by: woodford54
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Chuck Norris on Jun 5, 2006 8:18 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It takes courage to admit "defeat".
I was intuitive enough to know that this war was bad news and that thewy were fighting for oil when it began in 2003. We must also remember that Iraq WAS a threat to SOMEONE ELSE...namely that horrible little terrorist "nation"...named Israel...I sure as hell wouldn't die for Israel. You'd have to kill me and ship my body across the ocean to go over there.
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» RE: Sound Piece of Advice
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Hillary and John Stewart are calling you
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Sound Piece of Advice
Posted by: woodford54
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gacaiola on Jun 7, 2006 8:28 AM
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» RE: sophia
Posted by: Elliander
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Posted by: Elliander on Jun 7, 2006 4:43 PM
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To validate some of his claims about the poor treatment, I would like to point out that a few months ago on C-Span I watched something come up about poor treatment of Soldiers. Apparently, the company responsibly for bringing them water, was instead using river water downstream of sewage dump that was treated only by being drained through gravel. Multiple soldiers came forward with Parasites after the fact. It was not used for drinking, but it was used in camps for washing, shaving, showers, etc. They claimed it was safe, but in America such water treatment is only acceptable if you are using it as part of a septic system to replace ground water. They used the excuse that there is no direct link, but if someone goes in healthy and leaves with an exotic parasite and this happens to many soldiers, you know something is wrong.
But it isn't even just the physicle care.. the phychological... our troops are being killed slowly on the inside. It is really sad to see and hear about.
Those of us who oppose the war often get the tried and true speech "Support our troops" but the only one who fails to support our troops are the very people who send them there.
Currently, they are not allowed to leave even if their contract ends. The contract is one way. Once in, you have no guarentee of getting out.
I think, at the very least, the way troops are treated needs to change.
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» RE: Our complaints are mostly about the way we're portrayed
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Our complaints are mostly about the way we're portrayed
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Compromise
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: Compromise
Posted by: mossad
» RE: Spanky needs Spanky
Posted by: mossad
» RE: Spanky needs Spanky
Posted by: woodford54
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Posted by: mossad on Jun 10, 2006 10:40 PM
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There is need to weed out the mindset of men in uniform like Spanky who bring collective bad name to the services by their individual actions.
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» RE: Too bad you're a coward
Posted by: mossad
» RE: The American Soldier
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: The American Soldier
Posted by: mossad
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Posted by: mossad on Jun 17, 2006 2:15 AM
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http://tinyurl.com/prugv
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