COMMENTS: 197
The Mystery of the Marine Massacre in Iraq - Updated
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In November, a roadside bomb killed Marine Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas, a 20-year-old Texan, on a road not far from Haditha. According to Time magazine, "The next day a Marine communique from Camp Blue Diamond in Ramadi reported that Terrazas and 15 Iraqi civilians were killed by the blast and that 'gunmen attacked the convoy with small-arms fire,' prompting the Marines to return fire, killing eight insurgents." Another military official later said the military command in Baghdad "knew of no civilian deaths in the engagement."
Marine officials have now confirmed that those accounts were false. What really happened, according to reports confirmed by the Pentagon, was this: A group of enraged Marines entered several homes in Haditha and murdered their occupants, including children, in cold blood. A video of the aftermath -- showing that the residents were unarmed when they were shot at point-blank range -- was obtained by Time. Some were still in their nightclothes.
Five Iraqis in a taxi were also killed. It remains unclear whether they were trying to flee on foot, or drive away from the scene, and the chronology of events hasn't been established. The military is conducting two separate investigations into the events that day.
According to MSNBC, the video was confirmed by the Marines' own investigation: "Military officials say Marine Corps photos taken immediately after the incident show many of the victims were shot at close range, in the head and chest, execution-style." Women and children were among the 24 civilians murdered: "One photo shows a mother and young child bent over on the floor as if in prayer, shot dead, said the officials. ..."
The scene was so grim, the two Marines who took the after-action photos are reportedly suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.
Last week, Rep. Jack Murtha, D-Pa., told reporters that "sources within the military" told him that "there was no firefight, there was no IED that killed these innocent people. Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood."
According to the Marine Corps Times, up to a dozen soldiers face possible court-martial. Three officers were relieved of duty in April.
The Associated Press reported that Military officials expect Haditha to become a major scandal. On Saturday, Marine Gen. Michael W. Hagee, the top Marine official, headed to Iraq to admonish his troops to use deadly force "only when justified, proportional and, most importantly, lawful."
The media, hectored by the administration's charges that they don't report the illusory "good news" from Iraq, showed little stomach for the story until Murtha until Murtha's statement last week. Most of the reporting has focused on the Congressman, a former hawk who has become a vocal opponent of the war. It's a tidy storyline that reduces the horrific images of innocent children being blown away by vengeful Marines to a palpable and familiar partisan squabble.
But there's more going on than just the usual simplistic he said/she said reporting; the media's uncritical acceptance of the Iraq hawks' spin in the months leading up to the invasion -- with notable exceptions like Knight-Ridder's Washington Bureau -- makes them complicit in crimes like those alleged in Haditha. They promised America a clean war; smart bombs would spare the innocent, a high-tech military would be finished in a fortnight and casualties on both sides would be limited. Now, the editors at places like the Washington Post and the New York Times have little interest in turning Haditha into the Iraq war's My Lai and exposing the lie behind their clean war narrative.
The storyline has provoked the expected reaction from the war's dwindling number of supporters. As writer Steve Benen, perusing the right-wing blogs, noted:
Some are calling Murtha "dishonorable." Others labeled him a 'traitor' and recommended that he be sent to "jail." Another added, "Murtha has no honor left, no dignity, and will never be considered as a Marine except by his liberal buddies, who would hate him for wearing that uniform in the first place."The other wholly predictable reaction was voiced by Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, who told reporters that the Haditha massacre was a case of a few bad apples, an isolated incident -- just as he had said after the abuses at Abu Ghraib were revealed. "I don't want the actions of one squad in one city on one morning to be used to symbolize or characterize or tar the actions of our great troops," he said.
But the truth is that the story is unique only in that the evidence that a terrible crime took place appears to be too great for "plausible deniability."
Consider just a few reports:
- A team of eight Amnesty International staffers reported on a host of abuses by coalition forces, including the killing of two unarmed kids -- one 12 years old -- during house to house searches. "Many of the coalition soldiers and military police engaged in law enforcement do not have basic skills and tools in civilian policing," Curt Goering, a member of the Amnesty team in Iraq, noted.
- The Associated Press reported that "Iraq's U.N. ambassador accused U.S. Marines of killing his unarmed young cousin in what appeared to be 'cold blood'" during another house search in Anbar province. The ambassador, Samir Sumaidaie, wrote that the troops had smiled after the "killing of an unarmed innocent civilian." He believed it was "a crime that may be repeated up and down Al-Anbar."
- In early 2004, senior British commanders condemned "American military tactics in Iraq as heavy-handed and disproportionate." One officer told reporters "the view of the British chain of command is that the Americans' use of violence is not proportionate and is over-responsive to the threat they are facing. They don't see the Iraqi people the way we see them. They view them as untermenschen." (The Brits have been accused of their own share of crimes in Iraq.)
- In April of 2004, there were widespread reports -- in the foreign press -- that civilians were targeted during the "Siege of Fallujah." The Pentagon was outraged when journalists reported the number of civilians killed in the city. One report quoted Dr. Rafa Hayad al-Issawi, director of the city's main hospital, saying "the dead mostly included women, children and elderly." The Iraqi minister of health, Khudair Abbas, confirmed that U.S. forces had shot at ambulances -- in Fallujah and elsewhere -- and condemned the acts as possible war crimes. Snipers who served in Fallujah told the Los Angeles Times that "there might not have been such a 'target-rich' battlefield" since the World War II battle for Stalingrad.
- In March, Knight-Ridder reported that senior Iraqi police officials had accused U.S. soldiers of executing 11 Iraqi civilians, including four children and a 6-month-old baby, in a raid near the city of Balad. The local police chief, Col. Farouq Hussein, said that the civilians had all been shot in the head. "It's a clear and perfect crime," he said.
Journalists like Dahr Jamail and Robert Fisk have all reported on other instances of civilians caught in the sites of American gunners. And those stories don't capture the "collateral damage" done by bombs and missiles. Jamail wrote: "while the media spotlight shines squarely on the Haditha massacre, countless atrocities continue daily, conveniently out of the awareness of the general public."
Incidents like those alleged in Haditha, Ramallah and Fallujah are entirely predictable. And while there's no excuse for the actions of the troops in Haditha -- according to military officials the atrocities were "methodically" carried out in an operation that lasted several hours -- ultimately, these crimes originated in the decision to go to war in the first place. These are, after all, members of the most highly trained military in the world who have been put into a situation where they're under constant threat in an environment where it's hard to tell the good guys from the bad. They've seen 20,000 of their buddies killed or injured, and, according to a recent poll almost 9 out of 10 soldiers think the war in Iraq is "retaliation for Saddam's role in 9/11." It's no surprise that there are itchy trigger-fingers among them.
Ultimately, after Iraq's civilian population, those troops will pay the price for this war. Paul Rockwell, who interviewed a number of U.S. soldiers who claim to have committed atrocities in Iraq for the book Ten Excellent Reasons Not To Join The Military, wrote that American troops are not only "expected to follow unlawful orders, they are also expected to bear life-long burdens of shame, guilt, and legal culpability for the arrogance of their own commanders -- who dispense life and death from an office computer."
The real moral tragedy is that while some number of soldiers may face prosecution, the real culprits won't be punished. There are just too many of them.
They include not only the Bush administration's hardliners who conjured up this war, but also the Democratic hawks that enabled them and the media that spun their glorious war narrative and convinced so many ordinary citizens to jump on board. It's the Tom Friedmans and Kenneth Pollacks and Peter Beinarts, who only realized this war was a mistake when its execution proved disastrous.
Those of us who said that the war would be hell on the Iraqis were called "pacifists" and "appeasers." The hawks got their war and now we know that it's not a video game and it's not just glowing green explosions on CNN; it's a bloody and uncontrolled mess and civilians are paying the price, as they always do.
This article has been updated to include new facts and reporting released since the article was first published.
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Posted by: fairywearsboots on May 27, 2006 12:59 PM
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"...and according to a recent poll, almost nine out of 10 believe the war in Iraq is "retaliation for Saddam's role in 9/11."
After three years of this miserable war they still believe this Bushshit? That's downright frightening, to say the very least.
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» RE: Most highly trained military in the world?
Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» No they don't
Posted by: lawstudent08
» RE: No they don't
Posted by: nbrown
» Yeah, attack the soldiers and ignore the ones who sent them there?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Yeah, attack the soldiers and ignore the ones who sent them there?...but!
Posted by: Captainmagic
» RE: Most highly trained military in the world?
Posted by: Abushite
» RE: Most highly trained military in the world?
Posted by: Samantha Vimes
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Moonray on May 27, 2006 1:07 PM
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As bad as this latest atrocity is, it will serve some purpose if it causes more Americans to realize what is being done in their name.
But don't look to George W., Donald Rumsfeld or any other top Bushie for a display of genuine concern for the countless thousands being killed in Iraq. Bush, Rummy and the others invariably reply to such questions with a shrug, as if to say, "Well, that's the way it goes." Of course, none of them has ever heard a shot fired in anger, much less the anguished wails of a mother whose child has been killed in crossfire.
Of course, the MSM will have to be shamed by the blogosphere into covering this atrocity story even minimally. The MSM doesn't like unpleasant stories about Our Beloved Military Forces.
The really sad thing is that not just these latest murdered folks will have died in vain; it's likely that all of those killed there in the past three years died for nothing as well.
Let's not forget to remind Bush, Rummy & Co. about those deaths in the years to come.
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» When the only way we can feel good about ourselves is to make life a horror for everyone else...
Posted by: Sojourner
» The fighting continues for those with nothing to loose.
Posted by: jreinhart1
» A simple 'Amen' to that
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: The Bushies need their noses rubbed in it
Posted by: glorybe
» RE: The Bushies need their noses rubbed in it
Posted by: douglashoyt
Comments are closed-
Posted by: cry0fan on May 27, 2006 2:23 PM
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Why not put this Iraq war in historical context with respect to how those at the top manipulated the media and public prior to the start of the war, and compare that to past wars?
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» RE: Finally some historical context, but for the crimes of the overclass, only for those of the grun
Posted by: Blanktivist
» In a democracy, we're all to blame. Not to choose is still to have made a choice.
Posted by: Sojourner
» A wise statement
Posted by: jreinhart1
» RE: Another wise statement
Posted by: Smiggsy
» Armchair journalist strikes again!
Posted by: churchofone
Comments are closed-
Posted by: day0527 on May 27, 2006 2:28 PM
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Retired Vietnam Vet
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» The pentagon is killing our soldiers.
Posted by: jreinhart1
» RE: day0527
Posted by: feller
» RE: day0527
Posted by: day0527
» RE: day0527
Posted by: peacefulaim
» RE: day0527
Posted by: babs
Comments are closed-
Posted by: StuartH on May 27, 2006 4:09 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I happen to have designed a website for a photographer who was a combat medic in Vietnam. His experience there caused him to create a career out of documenting human situations crying out for justice. But recently he and a freelance writer from Los Angeles raised money to rescue a little girl from
the Anbar province. One little girl amidst all the carnage.
But if you read the blog from late last year carefully, what comes across is the experience in a landscape where the US military seems to be targeting residential neighborhoods and killing a lot of women and children. In the town where the little girl came from, a sniper's nest is set up on a high point and the victims are clearly visible pregnant women, children and old people as well as livestock.
http://www.documentaryphotographs.com
The whole landscape seems to be a killing field. My sense is that we need to pull out of there like yesterday.
We are not only not exactly winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people. We are fostering a whole generation of future terrorists whose lives will never be healed after their childhood friends were killed at a birthday party or some similarly incongruous visitation by battlefield death into childhood's happiness.
Apparently the right wing has gone insane and the media cannot face the morality questions. How can a soldier who comes back from duty as a sniper shooting innocent civilians like fish in a barrel be a normal adult? What are we doing to ourselves? What are we doing to people just like us in the Middle East?
Good Germans were those who had faith in their country and their leaders and turned their thoughts anywhere else but towards the questions they needed to ask.
Is the "Good German" syndrome what is happening here?
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» Great post.
Posted by: jreinhart1
» Both great posts.
Posted by: the poet
» it's not about all human beings
Posted by: Michelle
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Posted by: Somedaysoon on May 27, 2006 4:20 PM
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» RE: Murtha the Truthor
Posted by: cold2touch
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Posted by: kooz on May 27, 2006 4:47 PM
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» RE: Support the Troops?
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: Support the Troops?
Posted by: kooz
» RE: Support the Troops?
Posted by: kryptx
» RE: Support the Troops?
Posted by: FastEddy
» RE: Support the Troops?
Posted by: kryptx
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Boronia on May 27, 2006 5:21 PM
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» RE: we never mean to kill good people
Posted by: nbrown
» So, "Opps" pretty well covers it?
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: So, "Opps" pretty well covers it?
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: So, "Opps" pretty well covers it?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: So, "Opps" pretty well covers it?
Posted by: brunowe
» You believe you can just "opt out" of responsibility for our government's actions?
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: You believe you can just "opt out" of responsibility for our government's actions?
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: So, "Opps" pretty well covers it?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: So, "Opps" pretty well covers it?
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: well...
Posted by: radnar
» RE: we never mean to kill good people
Posted by: feller
Comments are closed-
Posted by: owleyes on May 27, 2006 7:12 PM
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» Nah, nah, I can be more radical than you?
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Nah, nah, I can be more radical than you?
Posted by: owleyes
» I used to be an NPR fan.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: I used to be an NPR fan.
Posted by: owleyes
» RE: Okay. . .
Posted by: the poet
» RE: Okay. . .
Posted by: owleyes
Comments are closed-
Posted by: clp1024 on May 27, 2006 11:07 PM
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That statement is a downright bold faced lie, the pentagon has never confirmed that the civilians were killed in cold blood. The investigation is still under way and the pentagon has never released an official comment on this incident other than "still under investigation". Since we now know the author is willing to lie to incite the Bush-haters, why would you believe anything he say from this point forward?
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» RE: More of the same.
Posted by: insulafortune
» RE: More of the same...indeed!
Posted by: Jonnikhan
» We did not create bin-Laden
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: More of the same.
Posted by: day0527
» RE: More of the same.
Posted by: Brown's mule
» RE: Now that it is clear that there was official confirmation....
Posted by: ZPaul
» Lame "gotcha" attempt
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Lame "gotcha" attempt
Posted by: kryptx
» RE: Lame "gotcha" attempt
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Lame "gotcha" attempt
Posted by: kryptx
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jreinhart1 on May 28, 2006 6:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Harry Milgram (LOOK UP HIS RESEARCH) proved that Americans would make good killers as 100% of the test group followed authorities and went all the way to killing innocent people when following orders. The Stanford psychological studies showed that even people that knew each other, when one group was allowed to act as guards, would become torturers within a few weeks without any guidance to do so on people they knew that were the inmates of this test.
Americans would make great SS men and fascists and that is exactly what is happening in places of high stress, in America but especially in war. My Lia was NOT AN ISOLATED INCIDENT!
Another UGLY FACT that these blogs leave out is the creation, funding and training of US death squads. The torture and razing of entire villages and towns is nothing new to US covert activities.
I find that the most disgusting part of this whole incident is that the American people are surprised! America cannot be a legitimate representative republic based on democratic ideals if the people are uninformed. To say that the US is anywhere near the country that we think we are is absurd, considering that Americans have lived in an information vacuum for the last 115 years which is reaching ever greater highs of propaganda the greater the technology becomes to inform. Our history is one of propaganda that would make Joseph Goebbels proud. Ironically, the CIA was created around the German propaganda machine and the people that the US snuck out of Germany to help create our NSA and CIA covert operations such as Klaus Barbie. Speaking of which, the US runs the majority of the distribution and money laundering of drug money around the world. For more information, read about Ralph McGehee and his CIABase of American activities abroad on his 25 years with the CIA and death squads and drug protection and distribution, or Katheran Austin Fits of Solari investments and her experience with the dark side of destroying our own communities to pad 401Ks through the drug trade. Sibel Edmonds has to keep quiet about just how bad the flow of money has become from illegal sources and the willingness of covert operations to get it.
Incredibly, the BBC has many documentaries on our behavior such as the four part documentary of US propaganda since WWI; Happiness Machines, The Engineering of Consent, There is a Policeman Inside All Our Heads, and Eight People Sipping Wine in Kettering. This is just one of hundreds of films and documentaries of American activities of which less than a dozen are from the US.
Tell’em what they want to hear is the motto of almost every thing in the US anymore. Packaged products as a result of focus groups and are little more than reinforcement for good behavior. People “choose” the products which they are nothing more than a target market for including our “leadership”. Many Americans are living a life of slogans, cliches and talking points that have been created just for them. From TV ads for children to political ads for voters, it’s much all the same.
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» RE: There is much much more beyond this story.
Posted by: feller
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ghoster on May 28, 2006 6:49 AM
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What choices do these kids have in reality? College funds, what a load of crap, how many actually get to college after something like this? Nope, continuing to do the same thing, is going to get you the same outcome, time after time. 90% believe that they are fighting for something that happened to us on 9/11? Yeh, there is intelligent critical thinking. If you want to get scared, imagine that the high school down the street issued machine guns to those kids and told them to go out and patrol the area around the school. What do you think would happen? In the service they learn how to clean, care for their weapons. And use them against anyone in front of them that threatens them. Their goal is to get their ass home in one piece, and their buddies too. Nothing more, not defending freedom or any other BS that is sold to the american dumbasses watching the tube daily. Nope, dumbed down, and run on down to sign up for the tour of Iraq, coming soon Iran on the list. Get rid of all incumbents in Nov, and we might have a chance. Otherwise saddle up and get your war gear, this is going to last a long time.
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Posted by: Sojourner on May 28, 2006 7:37 AM
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Once people stop paying attention, the military takes care of its own. It's the same in all bureaucracies.
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Posted by: queerpower.blogspot.com on May 28, 2006 8:59 AM
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Abu Ghraib, as mentioned in the article, was a previous incident which the U.S. government minimized as an "isolated incident".
Our cowardly corporate media decided to take the administration's stance word for word. One only hopes that now with dangerously low approval ratings across the board for Republicans, the media will be a bit more challenging.
For some reason, I'm not too encouraged that they will be more challenging. If not the mainstream media, the blogosphere must serve as an inadequate substitute. Let's face it, blogs have not replaced the media.
How can we exact pressure on media companies to become more independent and critical? That is the question beyond this current crisis, and it is a question that absolutely must be addressed.
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Posted by: TDyl on May 28, 2006 9:34 AM
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If all these worthless specimens get is the loss of a rank/stripe, several months in gaol and then multi-million dollar book and movie deals then I guess I will give up any hope I had for the future of our planet. We only have "enemies" because our politicians can't get on - we are all the same species for God's sake. Only several thousand people actually run the planet while the remaining 6 billion of us just want to try and get on with life without being trampled on by the pillocks that think they know what to do. We have seen them kow-tow to "big business" and start a chain reaction that may, according to James Lovelock, kill almost 85% of the population by the end of this century. It IS time to end this madness. I don't think Galloway was right when he was asked by a journalist about whether or not it would morally justifiable to assassinate bliar (sorry, Blair, for those of you not used to my emails); what is morally unjustifiable is NOT assassinating bliar and shrubbie.
I've run out of steam now. These issues get me so mad that all I really feel left able to do is commit gross acts of violence upon those that seek to control and manipulate us in the name of their "greater good" ideas/ideals; when that happens I just reach a point where words no longer make any sense and I want to lash out.
Thank you for listening. Rant ends.
Chris/TDyl
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» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: TDyl
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: IanA
» Our enemy wins when we behave as he does.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Our enemy wins when we behave as he does.
Posted by: IanA
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: feller
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: dave236412
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: feller
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: dave236412
» US does not deliberately kill civilians-another Liberal Lie
Posted by: feller
» RE: US does not deliberately kill civilians-another Liberal Lie
Posted by: dave236412
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: dave236412
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: IanA
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: dave236412
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: brunowe
» Part 1
Posted by: dave236412
» Part 2
Posted by: dave236412
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: IanA
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SALLY EVANS on May 28, 2006 2:25 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» US has abused use of force since WW II
Posted by: jreinhart1
» RE: US has abused use of force since WW II
Posted by: dave236412
» RE: "SUCKER BAIT " FOR GEORGE W. BUSH
Posted by: feller
» RE: "SUCKER BAIT " FOR GEORGE W. BUSH
Posted by: IanA
» RE: "SUCKER BAIT " FOR GEORGE W. BUSH
Posted by: feller
» RE: "SUCKER BAIT " FOR GEORGE W. BUSH
Posted by: IanA
» posh on the people
Posted by: feller
» RE: "SUCKER BAIT " FOR GEORGE W. BUSH.....yep
Posted by: Captainmagic
» RE: "SUCKER BAIT " FOR GEORGE W. BUSH.....yep
Posted by: feller
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Erik1968 on May 28, 2006 2:29 PM
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Anyone who believes that only 600 people were killed in Fallujah, a city of 200,000 that was reduced to rubble, is insane.
And that's the "truth" we're celebrating getting out. Wonderful.
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» RE: sigh.
Posted by: Erik1968
» Fallujah is a forgotten atrocity in the US
Posted by: jreinhart1
» RE: sigh.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» sigh: we should have nuked em
Posted by: feller
» RE: sigh: we should have nuked em
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Relax, you are probably winning!
Posted by: feller
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dave236412 on May 28, 2006 3:44 PM
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Every American soldier or marine involved in these crimes is personally responsible. It doesn't matter that they were acting on orders, or that they were not responsible for being sent to Iraq in the first place, or that they were misinformed. You have an obligation to disobey orders that are unlawful and immoral. You have an obligation to inform yourself as well as possible. If we don't hold individuals accountable for their actions, we will create a culture of impunity. That being said, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, and the rest of the gang need also be held accountable. There are domestic laws under which they can be charged and receive a severe penalty, and they ought to. And the rest of the American people ought to acknowledge their complicity, and feel a sense of shame and humility.
"The worst crimes were dared by a few, willed by more and tolerated by all." - Tacitus
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» In South Africa they sang, "Senzenina" 'What have we done."
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: Tom Degan on May 29, 2006 12:53 AM
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The 2000 vote can be attributed to ingnorance. By 2004 it was obvious to anyone with half a brain where this this maniacal little Hitler-wannabe was going. If you voted for Bush the second time around, you are as guilty as he is for the war crimes that are now being visited down, in your name, without a shred of mercy, apon the men, women and little children of Iraq. You could have put a stop to it but you insisted on being a good little German...I mean, American.
One of my greatest fears is going to hell. I've tried to be a good human being, a good Christian and a good Catholic all of my life but in some respects I have failed. And yet I beleve that on judgement day I will at least be secure in knowing that, when it really counted, I refused to have anything to do with the corrupt and muderous agenda of the "selected" officials of my country and that I did everything humanly possible to stop it.
Pray for peace - like your life depended on it because just maybe it does.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
tomdegan@frontiernet.net
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Posted by: Nigelthebriton on May 29, 2006 1:50 AM
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» RE: When soldiers behave in this way...
Posted by: Tom Degan
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Posted by: American Reflections on May 29, 2006 7:58 AM
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American troops can't tell the good guys from the bad? They perceive a six month old infant as a threat?
And this is the most "highly trained" military in the world? Trained for WHAT? To kill anything that moves? Women, children, the elderly, even livestock?
Part of the tragedy of this illegal war in Iraq is that good soldiers, decent men and women who would never fire a gun at an unarmed citizen, much less a child, will carry with them the shame of those murderous few who allow themselves to rampage through a country and murder at will simply because they can. And so will the rest of us.
With apologies to whoever wrote the following, whose name I don't remember, who said in "A Message to America:"
"You have the grit and the guts, I know,
You are ready to anwer blow for blow,
You are virile, combative, stubborn, hard,
But your honor ends with your own backyard;
Each man intent on his private goal,
You have no feeling for the whole;
What singly none would tolerate
You let unpunished hit the state,
Unmindful that each man must share
The stain he lets his country wear.
That is a harsh indictment, but can we deny it? And if we can't, God help us.
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on May 29, 2006 10:53 AM
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The numbers are eerily similar in Iraq: one dead soldier, 24 dead civilians. This is what happens when you invade and occupy a country - when you think you are going to use the military as the local cops. Policing a community and engaging the enemy are very different activities, as anyone but a ranking idiot would know. The military PR team is run by Rumsfeld - no guesses there. He has adjuncts , like the above quote: Duncan Hunter, R-Calif: "I don't want the actions of one squad in one city on one morning to be used to symbolize or characterize or tar the actions of our great troops," he said. This is an attempt to frame the issue - really, Bush is to blame, not the troops.
The only solution is to get the military out of Iraq in a series of staggered withdrawals. The National Guard should be taken out first. Murtha has the right idea. He's also right about the reasons for the slaughter - 18 year old troops under pressure are likely to respond this way. This isn't the only incident by far, Isahaqi Film Link shows another one... probably.
Meanwhile, life goes on in the American dreamland as ever - SUVs roll down the roads, shoppers run around Home Depot and Walmart, and the soldiers return to this weird Disneyland - looking around through changed eyes, struggling with massive 'cognitive dissonance'... no ticker tape parades, just a vast silence, an avoidance, a desire 'not to know' on the part of their families and friends. Smiling soccer moms thanking them for their 'services'... yeah.
"oh man - the shit piled up so fast in Vietnam you needed wings to stay above it" - Apocalypse Now.
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» "Thanks for the memories" -- Bob Hope
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: MagmaReport on May 29, 2006 11:17 AM
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The military post-Cold War doctrine, post-MAD, is called `full-spectrum force'. And Bush's wars are so closely linked to the functioning of the mass-media that TV must be considered to belong to the `full-spectrum' of military force. On the far end of the spectrum of force is full-scale warfare, including massive invasion and the tactical use of WMDs.
In the middle of the new power spectrum are policing and peace-keeping operations.
At the opposite end from full-scale invasion is permanent surveillance.
The question is: Since TV is part of the full-spectrum force, how will the Military use it in order to neutralize to disastrous effect of the massacres' images?
Read more on the http://MagmaReport.Net
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» the easy way out isnt always the truthful way out
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: Betsy L. Angert on May 29, 2006 9:32 PM
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I thank you for writing of a topic I find quite troubling. Just as you say here, there is so much more to this story. The name-calling we are witnessing is sadly, conventional, as is war. For me, what would be novel is a worldwide promoting of peace. While I do not [yet] have the power or influence to offer that, I will bestow my missive on the topic.
In this treatise, I draw no conclusion other than a desire for peace. I invite you and your readers to reflect and reply to the dilemma this revelation presents.
MARINES KILL INNOCENT IRAQI FAMILY. VERDICT “NOT GUILTY”? ©
May your life be full and fulfilling. May [spiritual, emotional, intellectual, and conjointly physical] abundance be yours . . . Betsy
Be-Think
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» Leftists: Read this post to see how you can criticize with heart and not your behinds.
Posted by: feller
» RE: Leftists: Read this post to see how you can criticize with heart and not your behinds.
Posted by: Betsy L. Angert
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Posted by: rsaxto on May 30, 2006 4:51 AM
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» maybe you'd be right if you told the truth
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: Prophit on May 30, 2006 6:44 AM
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Having said that, I believe the day will come and I have written the editors of the NY Times to tell them , that Nuremberg type trials will be held where they must be tried for their part in "Crimes against Humanity" and tried for treason against the American people.
Those are the things we need to begin to say loud and clear and to act in accordance with that idea. The commanders in the Military who have sent these troops to 'occupy' civilian populations should also be tried and hung for their part in all of this.
Those are my two goals. The political slimes who created this should also see the gallows as well. KICK OUT ALL INCUMBANTS AND LET THE TRIALS BEGIN.
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» RE: 2 Points: 1. Media leaders should be tried as War criminals, and 2.
Posted by: cry0fan
» La Guillotine a la gauche
Posted by: feller
» whoa! the ny times! well, that'll get action.
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: pheephee on May 30, 2006 7:59 AM
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War is hell, stress, and will result in events such as this when humans are sent into chaos over and over again. It was true in Vietnam and it is true in Iraq.
What will it take for the American people to finally stand up and tell the fascist who are in power that we have had enough? Your wages are not moving, the middle class is being eliminated, the dollar is falling, we have no international credibility, and we are committing war crimes against a population that happen to live on top of the oil we want for our oversized SUV's. So, what will it take?
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» Do It Right This Time:NO survivors
Posted by: feller
» Whoa... dude...
Posted by: CanuckKid
» it's never anyone's fault but the USA or "kick me, i'm an american"
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: solrev on May 30, 2006 10:26 AM
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» RE: War is Hell or should be
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: hotlipsin61 on May 30, 2006 11:41 AM
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Nearly every war has featured some kind of massacre of civilians, such as Leningrad, Vietnam, Crecy, Lidice, Czechoslovakia, the Crusades, etc. and the story line's the same: unarmed civilans are blown away.
It's no surprise, then, that American troops have committed atrocities in Iraq. So what ever happened to all those embedded reporters? See what happened after they all left?
The killing is easy because American troops can't distinguish between an "insurgent" and a civilian. The enemy isn't wearing a uniform.
As long as the world continues to wage war we will hear of these stories until we get sick of the killing. Diplomacy is a lost art long forgotten in American foreign policy. War is the American Way now.
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» RE: War is sanctioned murder
Posted by: feller
» RE: War is sanctioned murder
Posted by: CanuckKid
» you guys would call jefferson and paine nazis
Posted by: feller
» Jefferson and Paine were heroes, mate...
Posted by: CanuckKid
» Get Real:It's Unpleasant, but that's Life
Posted by: feller
» War is the way period; hint, always has been.
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: newf on May 30, 2006 12:51 PM
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But there is something wrong with your nation. If you have children - how can you not empathize with the grief caused by these murders described? I can't even write the words...
YOU live in the Evil Empire. You live amongst evildoers. Put a stop to these atrocities - PLEASE DO SOMETHING!
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Posted by: newf on May 30, 2006 12:51 PM
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But there is something wrong with your nation. If you have children - how can you not empathize with the grief caused by these murders described? I can't even write the words...
YOU live in the Evil Empire. You live amongst evildoers. Put a stop to these atrocities - PLEASE DO SOMETHING!
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» RE: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU WIMP?
Posted by: feller
» RE: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU WIMP?
Posted by: IanA
» RE: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU WIMP?
Posted by: feller
» RE: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU WIMP?
Posted by: Aussie Kim
» RE: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU WIMP?
Posted by: newf
» Canadians will kick ass too
Posted by: feller
» hey newf
Posted by: Michelle
» RE: hey newf
Posted by: newf
» RE: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU WIMP?
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» you are so full of luuuuuv
Posted by: feller
» God doesn't have a House; Gd is Nothing/Everything/Who Knows?
Posted by: feller
» RE: Get help. . .
Posted by: peacefulaim
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Posted by: MagmaReport on May 30, 2006 1:13 PM
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The massive broadcasting of the massacres of innocent Iraqi civilians--"worse than Abu Ghraib"--and of the ensuing cover-up, will threaten the will to win the Iraq War like nothing else before, because TV diffusion of violent images has the power to neutralize the legitimacy of the US government and its Army.
The military post-Cold War doctrine, post-MAD, is called 'full-spectrum force'. After the Cold War, the explicit aim of the US government mentioned in documents on foreign and military policy is 'domination.'
And Bush's wars are so closely linked to the functioning of the mass-media that TV must be considered part of the 'full-spectrum' of military force. On the far end of the spectrum of force is full-scale warfare, including massive invasion and the tactical use of WMDs.
In the middle of the new power spectrum are policing and peace-keeping operations.
At the opposite end from full-scale invasion is permanent surveillance.
Now my question is: Since TV is part of the full-spectrum force, how will the Military use it to neutralize the disastrous effect of the massacres' images?
More on the MagMa Report
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Posted by: Jersey Devil on May 30, 2006 5:34 PM
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» RE: Our Glorious Commander-in-Chief
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: sidewinder on May 30, 2006 8:45 PM
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» Who said? Hard to tell anymore "who" is the liar and who is the good guy!
Posted by: Prophit
» You are an ass ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» you're right but they don't care
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: Stardust on May 30, 2006 10:55 PM
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I truly wonder what would happen if America judged her actions with the same yardstick that she judges Iraqi insurgents, Taliban nutcases and the like? I figure that Georgie would probably be in the dock next to Saddam.
Maybe they could share a cell. Cause Saddam was an actual soldier (didn't go AWOL) I figure he a better scrapper. George would probably be his b**ch , if you know what I mean.
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» No, it ain't
Posted by: feller
» Hey, Peter Pan, your brainwashing is showing. LOL
Posted by: Prophit
» Burden of Proof rests with the charging party: that's you Sherlock.
Posted by: feller
» RE: Burden of Proof rests with the charging party: that's you Sherlock.
Posted by: Stardust
» RE: No, it ain't
Posted by: Aussie Kim
» Surivival: It's that you gotta do what you gotta do
Posted by: feller
» RE: Surivival: It's that you gotta do what you gotta do
Posted by: Stardust
» RE: No, it ain't
Posted by: Stardust
» Yeah, and given what has been reported lately, Bush would enjoy that!
Posted by: Prophit
» No it isn't. Not the way I figure it.
Posted by: feller
» RE: No it isn't. Not the way I figure it.
Posted by: Stardust
» Clean Up, Shape UP
Posted by: feller
» RE: Clean Up, Shape UP
Posted by: Stardust
» RE: Clean Up, Shape UP
Posted by: peacefulaim
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Posted by: yellow on May 31, 2006 12:21 AM
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» RE: We Own This!...come on (feller)..
Posted by: Captainmagic
» Buy a Style Book
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: feller on May 31, 2006 10:29 AM
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Posted by: ravin on May 31, 2006 4:11 PM
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» RE: truth is spelled t r u t h
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: Betsy L. Angert on May 31, 2006 8:17 PM
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I too have updated my missive; actually, I penned another that might be of interest to you and your readers.
THE MARINE CORPS, “HONORABLE PEOPLE” KILL HADITHA FAMILIES ©
In my first treatise on the topic, I drew no conclusions. I only offered my desire for peace. I invite you and your readers to reflect and respond to either. This is a growing dilemma.
MARINES KILL INNOCENT IRAQI FAMILY. VERDICT “NOT GUILTY”? ©
May your life be full and fulfilling. May [spiritual, emotional, intellectual, and conjointly physical] abundance be yours . . . Betsy
Be-Think
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Posted by: tmwright on Jun 1, 2006 11:26 AM
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It is just now come out that the killing of the villagers under the bridge during the Korean war was not an isolated incident but rather official policy.
Perhaps something similar is manifesting in Iraq. The killing of civilians sends a message that cooperating with the insurgents comes with a terrible price. These people in all likelihood knew who set the roadside bomb and could have warned the marines. Of course, if they did warn the marines, they probably would be targeted by the insurgents. Seems like Iraqi civilians are caught between a rock and a hard place.
A lot of our soldiers are going to come back from this war haunted by what they saw or did -- not unlike Vietnam.
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» RE: Perhaps we are witnessing a systematic policy
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: thorlives on Jun 1, 2006 5:11 PM
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Posted by: ZPaul on Jun 2, 2006 2:01 AM
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» Haditha is It
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: Zemiti on Jun 2, 2006 5:55 AM
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» To the Underground: Come out, it's safe.
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: Estoborian on Jun 2, 2006 3:44 PM
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What do they expect of a human being who is on his third posting to Iraq? The U.S. is going to have to leave Iraq eventually in total defeat. They should pull out now and save any more massacres of this nature. Where is the outrage in the U.S? Where are all the holier than thou Democrats, like Hillary Clinton who still think the war in Iraq is 'winnable.'?Give me a Break!
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Posted by: fairywearsboots on May 27, 2006 12:59 PM
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"...and according to a recent poll, almost nine out of 10 believe the war in Iraq is "retaliation for Saddam's role in 9/11."
After three years of this miserable war they still believe this Bushshit? That's downright frightening, to say the very least.
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» RE: Most highly trained military in the world?
Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» No they don't
Posted by: lawstudent08
» RE: No they don't
Posted by: nbrown
» Yeah, attack the soldiers and ignore the ones who sent them there?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Yeah, attack the soldiers and ignore the ones who sent them there?...but!
Posted by: Captainmagic
» RE: Most highly trained military in the world?
Posted by: Abushite
» RE: Most highly trained military in the world?
Posted by: Samantha Vimes
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Posted by: Moonray on May 27, 2006 1:07 PM
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As bad as this latest atrocity is, it will serve some purpose if it causes more Americans to realize what is being done in their name.
But don't look to George W., Donald Rumsfeld or any other top Bushie for a display of genuine concern for the countless thousands being killed in Iraq. Bush, Rummy and the others invariably reply to such questions with a shrug, as if to say, "Well, that's the way it goes." Of course, none of them has ever heard a shot fired in anger, much less the anguished wails of a mother whose child has been killed in crossfire.
Of course, the MSM will have to be shamed by the blogosphere into covering this atrocity story even minimally. The MSM doesn't like unpleasant stories about Our Beloved Military Forces.
The really sad thing is that not just these latest murdered folks will have died in vain; it's likely that all of those killed there in the past three years died for nothing as well.
Let's not forget to remind Bush, Rummy & Co. about those deaths in the years to come.
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» When the only way we can feel good about ourselves is to make life a horror for everyone else...
Posted by: Sojourner
» The fighting continues for those with nothing to loose.
Posted by: jreinhart1
» A simple 'Amen' to that
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: The Bushies need their noses rubbed in it
Posted by: glorybe
» RE: The Bushies need their noses rubbed in it
Posted by: douglashoyt
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Posted by: cry0fan on May 27, 2006 2:23 PM
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Why not put this Iraq war in historical context with respect to how those at the top manipulated the media and public prior to the start of the war, and compare that to past wars?
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» RE: Finally some historical context, but for the crimes of the overclass, only for those of the grun
Posted by: Blanktivist
» In a democracy, we're all to blame. Not to choose is still to have made a choice.
Posted by: Sojourner
» A wise statement
Posted by: jreinhart1
» RE: Another wise statement
Posted by: Smiggsy
» Armchair journalist strikes again!
Posted by: churchofone
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Posted by: day0527 on May 27, 2006 2:28 PM
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Retired Vietnam Vet
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» The pentagon is killing our soldiers.
Posted by: jreinhart1
» RE: day0527
Posted by: feller
» RE: day0527
Posted by: day0527
» RE: day0527
Posted by: peacefulaim
» RE: day0527
Posted by: babs
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Posted by: StuartH on May 27, 2006 4:09 PM
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I happen to have designed a website for a photographer who was a combat medic in Vietnam. His experience there caused him to create a career out of documenting human situations crying out for justice. But recently he and a freelance writer from Los Angeles raised money to rescue a little girl from
the Anbar province. One little girl amidst all the carnage.
But if you read the blog from late last year carefully, what comes across is the experience in a landscape where the US military seems to be targeting residential neighborhoods and killing a lot of women and children. In the town where the little girl came from, a sniper's nest is set up on a high point and the victims are clearly visible pregnant women, children and old people as well as livestock.
http://www.documentaryphotographs.com
The whole landscape seems to be a killing field. My sense is that we need to pull out of there like yesterday.
We are not only not exactly winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people. We are fostering a whole generation of future terrorists whose lives will never be healed after their childhood friends were killed at a birthday party or some similarly incongruous visitation by battlefield death into childhood's happiness.
Apparently the right wing has gone insane and the media cannot face the morality questions. How can a soldier who comes back from duty as a sniper shooting innocent civilians like fish in a barrel be a normal adult? What are we doing to ourselves? What are we doing to people just like us in the Middle East?
Good Germans were those who had faith in their country and their leaders and turned their thoughts anywhere else but towards the questions they needed to ask.
Is the "Good German" syndrome what is happening here?
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» Great post.
Posted by: jreinhart1
» Both great posts.
Posted by: the poet
» it's not about all human beings
Posted by: Michelle
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Posted by: Somedaysoon on May 27, 2006 4:20 PM
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» RE: Murtha the Truthor
Posted by: cold2touch
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Posted by: kooz on May 27, 2006 4:47 PM
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» RE: Support the Troops?
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: Support the Troops?
Posted by: kooz
» RE: Support the Troops?
Posted by: kryptx
» RE: Support the Troops?
Posted by: FastEddy
» RE: Support the Troops?
Posted by: kryptx
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Posted by: Boronia on May 27, 2006 5:21 PM
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» RE: we never mean to kill good people
Posted by: nbrown
» So, "Opps" pretty well covers it?
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: So, "Opps" pretty well covers it?
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: So, "Opps" pretty well covers it?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: So, "Opps" pretty well covers it?
Posted by: brunowe
» You believe you can just "opt out" of responsibility for our government's actions?
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: You believe you can just "opt out" of responsibility for our government's actions?
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: So, "Opps" pretty well covers it?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: So, "Opps" pretty well covers it?
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: well...
Posted by: radnar
» RE: we never mean to kill good people
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: owleyes on May 27, 2006 7:12 PM
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» Nah, nah, I can be more radical than you?
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Nah, nah, I can be more radical than you?
Posted by: owleyes
» I used to be an NPR fan.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: I used to be an NPR fan.
Posted by: owleyes
» RE: Okay. . .
Posted by: the poet
» RE: Okay. . .
Posted by: owleyes
Comments are closed-
Posted by: clp1024 on May 27, 2006 11:07 PM
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That statement is a downright bold faced lie, the pentagon has never confirmed that the civilians were killed in cold blood. The investigation is still under way and the pentagon has never released an official comment on this incident other than "still under investigation". Since we now know the author is willing to lie to incite the Bush-haters, why would you believe anything he say from this point forward?
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» RE: More of the same.
Posted by: insulafortune
» RE: More of the same...indeed!
Posted by: Jonnikhan
» We did not create bin-Laden
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: More of the same.
Posted by: day0527
» RE: More of the same.
Posted by: Brown's mule
» RE: Now that it is clear that there was official confirmation....
Posted by: ZPaul
» Lame "gotcha" attempt
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Lame "gotcha" attempt
Posted by: kryptx
» RE: Lame "gotcha" attempt
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Lame "gotcha" attempt
Posted by: kryptx
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jreinhart1 on May 28, 2006 6:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Harry Milgram (LOOK UP HIS RESEARCH) proved that Americans would make good killers as 100% of the test group followed authorities and went all the way to killing innocent people when following orders. The Stanford psychological studies showed that even people that knew each other, when one group was allowed to act as guards, would become torturers within a few weeks without any guidance to do so on people they knew that were the inmates of this test.
Americans would make great SS men and fascists and that is exactly what is happening in places of high stress, in America but especially in war. My Lia was NOT AN ISOLATED INCIDENT!
Another UGLY FACT that these blogs leave out is the creation, funding and training of US death squads. The torture and razing of entire villages and towns is nothing new to US covert activities.
I find that the most disgusting part of this whole incident is that the American people are surprised! America cannot be a legitimate representative republic based on democratic ideals if the people are uninformed. To say that the US is anywhere near the country that we think we are is absurd, considering that Americans have lived in an information vacuum for the last 115 years which is reaching ever greater highs of propaganda the greater the technology becomes to inform. Our history is one of propaganda that would make Joseph Goebbels proud. Ironically, the CIA was created around the German propaganda machine and the people that the US snuck out of Germany to help create our NSA and CIA covert operations such as Klaus Barbie. Speaking of which, the US runs the majority of the distribution and money laundering of drug money around the world. For more information, read about Ralph McGehee and his CIABase of American activities abroad on his 25 years with the CIA and death squads and drug protection and distribution, or Katheran Austin Fits of Solari investments and her experience with the dark side of destroying our own communities to pad 401Ks through the drug trade. Sibel Edmonds has to keep quiet about just how bad the flow of money has become from illegal sources and the willingness of covert operations to get it.
Incredibly, the BBC has many documentaries on our behavior such as the four part documentary of US propaganda since WWI; Happiness Machines, The Engineering of Consent, There is a Policeman Inside All Our Heads, and Eight People Sipping Wine in Kettering. This is just one of hundreds of films and documentaries of American activities of which less than a dozen are from the US.
Tell’em what they want to hear is the motto of almost every thing in the US anymore. Packaged products as a result of focus groups and are little more than reinforcement for good behavior. People “choose” the products which they are nothing more than a target market for including our “leadership”. Many Americans are living a life of slogans, cliches and talking points that have been created just for them. From TV ads for children to political ads for voters, it’s much all the same.
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» RE: There is much much more beyond this story.
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: ghoster on May 28, 2006 6:49 AM
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What choices do these kids have in reality? College funds, what a load of crap, how many actually get to college after something like this? Nope, continuing to do the same thing, is going to get you the same outcome, time after time. 90% believe that they are fighting for something that happened to us on 9/11? Yeh, there is intelligent critical thinking. If you want to get scared, imagine that the high school down the street issued machine guns to those kids and told them to go out and patrol the area around the school. What do you think would happen? In the service they learn how to clean, care for their weapons. And use them against anyone in front of them that threatens them. Their goal is to get their ass home in one piece, and their buddies too. Nothing more, not defending freedom or any other BS that is sold to the american dumbasses watching the tube daily. Nope, dumbed down, and run on down to sign up for the tour of Iraq, coming soon Iran on the list. Get rid of all incumbents in Nov, and we might have a chance. Otherwise saddle up and get your war gear, this is going to last a long time.
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Posted by: Sojourner on May 28, 2006 7:37 AM
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Once people stop paying attention, the military takes care of its own. It's the same in all bureaucracies.
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Posted by: queerpower.blogspot.com on May 28, 2006 8:59 AM
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Abu Ghraib, as mentioned in the article, was a previous incident which the U.S. government minimized as an "isolated incident".
Our cowardly corporate media decided to take the administration's stance word for word. One only hopes that now with dangerously low approval ratings across the board for Republicans, the media will be a bit more challenging.
For some reason, I'm not too encouraged that they will be more challenging. If not the mainstream media, the blogosphere must serve as an inadequate substitute. Let's face it, blogs have not replaced the media.
How can we exact pressure on media companies to become more independent and critical? That is the question beyond this current crisis, and it is a question that absolutely must be addressed.
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Posted by: TDyl on May 28, 2006 9:34 AM
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If all these worthless specimens get is the loss of a rank/stripe, several months in gaol and then multi-million dollar book and movie deals then I guess I will give up any hope I had for the future of our planet. We only have "enemies" because our politicians can't get on - we are all the same species for God's sake. Only several thousand people actually run the planet while the remaining 6 billion of us just want to try and get on with life without being trampled on by the pillocks that think they know what to do. We have seen them kow-tow to "big business" and start a chain reaction that may, according to James Lovelock, kill almost 85% of the population by the end of this century. It IS time to end this madness. I don't think Galloway was right when he was asked by a journalist about whether or not it would morally justifiable to assassinate bliar (sorry, Blair, for those of you not used to my emails); what is morally unjustifiable is NOT assassinating bliar and shrubbie.
I've run out of steam now. These issues get me so mad that all I really feel left able to do is commit gross acts of violence upon those that seek to control and manipulate us in the name of their "greater good" ideas/ideals; when that happens I just reach a point where words no longer make any sense and I want to lash out.
Thank you for listening. Rant ends.
Chris/TDyl
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» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: TDyl
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: IanA
» Our enemy wins when we behave as he does.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Our enemy wins when we behave as he does.
Posted by: IanA
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: feller
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: dave236412
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: feller
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: dave236412
» US does not deliberately kill civilians-another Liberal Lie
Posted by: feller
» RE: US does not deliberately kill civilians-another Liberal Lie
Posted by: dave236412
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: dave236412
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: IanA
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: dave236412
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: brunowe
» Part 1
Posted by: dave236412
» Part 2
Posted by: dave236412
» RE: An email I sent to friends and family
Posted by: IanA
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Posted by: SALLY EVANS on May 28, 2006 2:25 PM
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» US has abused use of force since WW II
Posted by: jreinhart1
» RE: US has abused use of force since WW II
Posted by: dave236412
» RE: "SUCKER BAIT " FOR GEORGE W. BUSH
Posted by: feller
» RE: "SUCKER BAIT " FOR GEORGE W. BUSH
Posted by: IanA
» RE: "SUCKER BAIT " FOR GEORGE W. BUSH
Posted by: feller
» RE: "SUCKER BAIT " FOR GEORGE W. BUSH
Posted by: IanA
» posh on the people
Posted by: feller
» RE: "SUCKER BAIT " FOR GEORGE W. BUSH.....yep
Posted by: Captainmagic
» RE: "SUCKER BAIT " FOR GEORGE W. BUSH.....yep
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: Erik1968 on May 28, 2006 2:29 PM
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Anyone who believes that only 600 people were killed in Fallujah, a city of 200,000 that was reduced to rubble, is insane.
And that's the "truth" we're celebrating getting out. Wonderful.
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» RE: sigh.
Posted by: Erik1968
» Fallujah is a forgotten atrocity in the US
Posted by: jreinhart1
» RE: sigh.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» sigh: we should have nuked em
Posted by: feller
» RE: sigh: we should have nuked em
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Relax, you are probably winning!
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: dave236412 on May 28, 2006 3:44 PM
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Every American soldier or marine involved in these crimes is personally responsible. It doesn't matter that they were acting on orders, or that they were not responsible for being sent to Iraq in the first place, or that they were misinformed. You have an obligation to disobey orders that are unlawful and immoral. You have an obligation to inform yourself as well as possible. If we don't hold individuals accountable for their actions, we will create a culture of impunity. That being said, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, and the rest of the gang need also be held accountable. There are domestic laws under which they can be charged and receive a severe penalty, and they ought to. And the rest of the American people ought to acknowledge their complicity, and feel a sense of shame and humility.
"The worst crimes were dared by a few, willed by more and tolerated by all." - Tacitus
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» In South Africa they sang, "Senzenina" 'What have we done."
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: Tom Degan on May 29, 2006 12:53 AM
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The 2000 vote can be attributed to ingnorance. By 2004 it was obvious to anyone with half a brain where this this maniacal little Hitler-wannabe was going. If you voted for Bush the second time around, you are as guilty as he is for the war crimes that are now being visited down, in your name, without a shred of mercy, apon the men, women and little children of Iraq. You could have put a stop to it but you insisted on being a good little German...I mean, American.
One of my greatest fears is going to hell. I've tried to be a good human being, a good Christian and a good Catholic all of my life but in some respects I have failed. And yet I beleve that on judgement day I will at least be secure in knowing that, when it really counted, I refused to have anything to do with the corrupt and muderous agenda of the "selected" officials of my country and that I did everything humanly possible to stop it.
Pray for peace - like your life depended on it because just maybe it does.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
tomdegan@frontiernet.net
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Posted by: Nigelthebriton on May 29, 2006 1:50 AM
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» RE: When soldiers behave in this way...
Posted by: Tom Degan
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Posted by: American Reflections on May 29, 2006 7:58 AM
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American troops can't tell the good guys from the bad? They perceive a six month old infant as a threat?
And this is the most "highly trained" military in the world? Trained for WHAT? To kill anything that moves? Women, children, the elderly, even livestock?
Part of the tragedy of this illegal war in Iraq is that good soldiers, decent men and women who would never fire a gun at an unarmed citizen, much less a child, will carry with them the shame of those murderous few who allow themselves to rampage through a country and murder at will simply because they can. And so will the rest of us.
With apologies to whoever wrote the following, whose name I don't remember, who said in "A Message to America:"
"You have the grit and the guts, I know,
You are ready to anwer blow for blow,
You are virile, combative, stubborn, hard,
But your honor ends with your own backyard;
Each man intent on his private goal,
You have no feeling for the whole;
What singly none would tolerate
You let unpunished hit the state,
Unmindful that each man must share
The stain he lets his country wear.
That is a harsh indictment, but can we deny it? And if we can't, God help us.
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on May 29, 2006 10:53 AM
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The numbers are eerily similar in Iraq: one dead soldier, 24 dead civilians. This is what happens when you invade and occupy a country - when you think you are going to use the military as the local cops. Policing a community and engaging the enemy are very different activities, as anyone but a ranking idiot would know. The military PR team is run by Rumsfeld - no guesses there. He has adjuncts , like the above quote: Duncan Hunter, R-Calif: "I don't want the actions of one squad in one city on one morning to be used to symbolize or characterize or tar the actions of our great troops," he said. This is an attempt to frame the issue - really, Bush is to blame, not the troops.
The only solution is to get the military out of Iraq in a series of staggered withdrawals. The National Guard should be taken out first. Murtha has the right idea. He's also right about the reasons for the slaughter - 18 year old troops under pressure are likely to respond this way. This isn't the only incident by far, Isahaqi Film Link shows another one... probably.
Meanwhile, life goes on in the American dreamland as ever - SUVs roll down the roads, shoppers run around Home Depot and Walmart, and the soldiers return to this weird Disneyland - looking around through changed eyes, struggling with massive 'cognitive dissonance'... no ticker tape parades, just a vast silence, an avoidance, a desire 'not to know' on the part of their families and friends. Smiling soccer moms thanking them for their 'services'... yeah.
"oh man - the shit piled up so fast in Vietnam you needed wings to stay above it" - Apocalypse Now.
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» "Thanks for the memories" -- Bob Hope
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: MagmaReport on May 29, 2006 11:17 AM
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The military post-Cold War doctrine, post-MAD, is called `full-spectrum force'. And Bush's wars are so closely linked to the functioning of the mass-media that TV must be considered to belong to the `full-spectrum' of military force. On the far end of the spectrum of force is full-scale warfare, including massive invasion and the tactical use of WMDs.
In the middle of the new power spectrum are policing and peace-keeping operations.
At the opposite end from full-scale invasion is permanent surveillance.
The question is: Since TV is part of the full-spectrum force, how will the Military use it in order to neutralize to disastrous effect of the massacres' images?
Read more on the http://MagmaReport.Net
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» the easy way out isnt always the truthful way out
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: Betsy L. Angert on May 29, 2006 9:32 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thank you for writing of a topic I find quite troubling. Just as you say here, there is so much more to this story. The name-calling we are witnessing is sadly, conventional, as is war. For me, what would be novel is a worldwide promoting of peace. While I do not [yet] have the power or influence to offer that, I will bestow my missive on the topic.
In this treatise, I draw no conclusion other than a desire for peace. I invite you and your readers to reflect and reply to the dilemma this revelation presents.
MARINES KILL INNOCENT IRAQI FAMILY. VERDICT “NOT GUILTY”? ©
May your life be full and fulfilling. May [spiritual, emotional, intellectual, and conjointly physical] abundance be yours . . . Betsy
Be-Think
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» Leftists: Read this post to see how you can criticize with heart and not your behinds.
Posted by: feller
» RE: Leftists: Read this post to see how you can criticize with heart and not your behinds.
Posted by: Betsy L. Angert
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Posted by: rsaxto on May 30, 2006 4:51 AM
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» maybe you'd be right if you told the truth
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: Prophit on May 30, 2006 6:44 AM
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Having said that, I believe the day will come and I have written the editors of the NY Times to tell them , that Nuremberg type trials will be held where they must be tried for their part in "Crimes against Humanity" and tried for treason against the American people.
Those are the things we need to begin to say loud and clear and to act in accordance with that idea. The commanders in the Military who have sent these troops to 'occupy' civilian populations should also be tried and hung for their part in all of this.
Those are my two goals. The political slimes who created this should also see the gallows as well. KICK OUT ALL INCUMBANTS AND LET THE TRIALS BEGIN.
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» RE: 2 Points: 1. Media leaders should be tried as War criminals, and 2.
Posted by: cry0fan
» La Guillotine a la gauche
Posted by: feller
» whoa! the ny times! well, that'll get action.
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: pheephee on May 30, 2006 7:59 AM
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War is hell, stress, and will result in events such as this when humans are sent into chaos over and over again. It was true in Vietnam and it is true in Iraq.
What will it take for the American people to finally stand up and tell the fascist who are in power that we have had enough? Your wages are not moving, the middle class is being eliminated, the dollar is falling, we have no international credibility, and we are committing war crimes against a population that happen to live on top of the oil we want for our oversized SUV's. So, what will it take?
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» Do It Right This Time:NO survivors
Posted by: feller
» Whoa... dude...
Posted by: CanuckKid
» it's never anyone's fault but the USA or "kick me, i'm an american"
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: solrev on May 30, 2006 10:26 AM
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» RE: War is Hell or should be
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: hotlipsin61 on May 30, 2006 11:41 AM
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Nearly every war has featured some kind of massacre of civilians, such as Leningrad, Vietnam, Crecy, Lidice, Czechoslovakia, the Crusades, etc. and the story line's the same: unarmed civilans are blown away.
It's no surprise, then, that American troops have committed atrocities in Iraq. So what ever happened to all those embedded reporters? See what happened after they all left?
The killing is easy because American troops can't distinguish between an "insurgent" and a civilian. The enemy isn't wearing a uniform.
As long as the world continues to wage war we will hear of these stories until we get sick of the killing. Diplomacy is a lost art long forgotten in American foreign policy. War is the American Way now.
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» RE: War is sanctioned murder
Posted by: feller
» RE: War is sanctioned murder
Posted by: CanuckKid
» you guys would call jefferson and paine nazis
Posted by: feller
» Jefferson and Paine were heroes, mate...
Posted by: CanuckKid
» Get Real:It's Unpleasant, but that's Life
Posted by: feller
» War is the way period; hint, always has been.
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: newf on May 30, 2006 12:51 PM
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But there is something wrong with your nation. If you have children - how can you not empathize with the grief caused by these murders described? I can't even write the words...
YOU live in the Evil Empire. You live amongst evildoers. Put a stop to these atrocities - PLEASE DO SOMETHING!
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Posted by: newf on May 30, 2006 12:51 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But there is something wrong with your nation. If you have children - how can you not empathize with the grief caused by these murders described? I can't even write the words...
YOU live in the Evil Empire. You live amongst evildoers. Put a stop to these atrocities - PLEASE DO SOMETHING!
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» RE: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU WIMP?
Posted by: feller
» RE: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU WIMP?
Posted by: IanA
» RE: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU WIMP?
Posted by: feller
» RE: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU WIMP?
Posted by: Aussie Kim
» RE: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU WIMP?
Posted by: newf
» Canadians will kick ass too
Posted by: feller
» hey newf
Posted by: Michelle
» RE: hey newf
Posted by: newf
» RE: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU WIMP?
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» you are so full of luuuuuv
Posted by: feller
» God doesn't have a House; Gd is Nothing/Everything/Who Knows?
Posted by: feller
» RE: Get help. . .
Posted by: peacefulaim
Comments are closed-
Posted by: MagmaReport on May 30, 2006 1:13 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The massive broadcasting of the massacres of innocent Iraqi civilians--"worse than Abu Ghraib"--and of the ensuing cover-up, will threaten the will to win the Iraq War like nothing else before, because TV diffusion of violent images has the power to neutralize the legitimacy of the US government and its Army.
The military post-Cold War doctrine, post-MAD, is called 'full-spectrum force'. After the Cold War, the explicit aim of the US government mentioned in documents on foreign and military policy is 'domination.'
And Bush's wars are so closely linked to the functioning of the mass-media that TV must be considered part of the 'full-spectrum' of military force. On the far end of the spectrum of force is full-scale warfare, including massive invasion and the tactical use of WMDs.
In the middle of the new power spectrum are policing and peace-keeping operations.
At the opposite end from full-scale invasion is permanent surveillance.
Now my question is: Since TV is part of the full-spectrum force, how will the Military use it to neutralize the disastrous effect of the massacres' images?
More on the MagMa Report
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Posted by: Jersey Devil on May 30, 2006 5:34 PM
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» RE: Our Glorious Commander-in-Chief
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: sidewinder on May 30, 2006 8:45 PM
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» Who said? Hard to tell anymore "who" is the liar and who is the good guy!
Posted by: Prophit
» You are an ass ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» you're right but they don't care
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: Stardust on May 30, 2006 10:55 PM
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I truly wonder what would happen if America judged her actions with the same yardstick that she judges Iraqi insurgents, Taliban nutcases and the like? I figure that Georgie would probably be in the dock next to Saddam.
Maybe they could share a cell. Cause Saddam was an actual soldier (didn't go AWOL) I figure he a better scrapper. George would probably be his b**ch , if you know what I mean.
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» No, it ain't
Posted by: feller
» Hey, Peter Pan, your brainwashing is showing. LOL
Posted by: Prophit
» Burden of Proof rests with the charging party: that's you Sherlock.
Posted by: feller
» RE: Burden of Proof rests with the charging party: that's you Sherlock.
Posted by: Stardust
» RE: No, it ain't
Posted by: Aussie Kim
» Surivival: It's that you gotta do what you gotta do
Posted by: feller
» RE: Surivival: It's that you gotta do what you gotta do
Posted by: Stardust
» RE: No, it ain't
Posted by: Stardust
» Yeah, and given what has been reported lately, Bush would enjoy that!
Posted by: Prophit
» No it isn't. Not the way I figure it.
Posted by: feller
» RE: No it isn't. Not the way I figure it.
Posted by: Stardust
» Clean Up, Shape UP
Posted by: feller
» RE: Clean Up, Shape UP
Posted by: Stardust
» RE: Clean Up, Shape UP
Posted by: peacefulaim
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Posted by: yellow on May 31, 2006 12:21 AM
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» RE: We Own This!...come on (feller)..
Posted by: Captainmagic
» Buy a Style Book
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: feller on May 31, 2006 10:29 AM
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Posted by: ravin on May 31, 2006 4:11 PM
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» RE: truth is spelled t r u t h
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: Betsy L. Angert on May 31, 2006 8:17 PM
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I too have updated my missive; actually, I penned another that might be of interest to you and your readers.
THE MARINE CORPS, “HONORABLE PEOPLE” KILL HADITHA FAMILIES ©
In my first treatise on the topic, I drew no conclusions. I only offered my desire for peace. I invite you and your readers to reflect and respond to either. This is a growing dilemma.
MARINES KILL INNOCENT IRAQI FAMILY. VERDICT “NOT GUILTY”? ©
May your life be full and fulfilling. May [spiritual, emotional, intellectual, and conjointly physical] abundance be yours . . . Betsy
Be-Think
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Posted by: tmwright on Jun 1, 2006 11:26 AM
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It is just now come out that the killing of the villagers under the bridge during the Korean war was not an isolated incident but rather official policy.
Perhaps something similar is manifesting in Iraq. The killing of civilians sends a message that cooperating with the insurgents comes with a terrible price. These people in all likelihood knew who set the roadside bomb and could have warned the marines. Of course, if they did warn the marines, they probably would be targeted by the insurgents. Seems like Iraqi civilians are caught between a rock and a hard place.
A lot of our soldiers are going to come back from this war haunted by what they saw or did -- not unlike Vietnam.
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» RE: Perhaps we are witnessing a systematic policy
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: thorlives on Jun 1, 2006 5:11 PM
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Posted by: ZPaul on Jun 2, 2006 2:01 AM
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» Haditha is It
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: Zemiti on Jun 2, 2006 5:55 AM
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» To the Underground: Come out, it's safe.
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: Estoborian on Jun 2, 2006 3:44 PM
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What do they expect of a human being who is on his third posting to Iraq? The U.S. is going to have to leave Iraq eventually in total defeat. They should pull out now and save any more massacres of this nature. Where is the outrage in the U.S? Where are all the holier than thou Democrats, like Hillary Clinton who still think the war in Iraq is 'winnable.'?Give me a Break!
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