comments_imageCOMMENTS: 45

Howard Zinn on Fixing What's Wrong

'People think there must be some magical tactic, beyond the traditional ones -- protests, demonstrations, vigils, civil disobedience -- but there is no magical panacea, only persistence.'
May 17, 2006  |  
 
 
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Shelly R. Fredman's work has appeared in Best Jewish Writing, First Harvest, the Chicago Tribune Magazine, and the Forward.
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Marian Wright Edelman for President? Yes, but should she represent a Decadent Party?
Posted by: ZPaul on May 17, 2006 1:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
True, the Democrats are ties to corporate wealth. So if Marian Wright Edelman should run for President instead of conservative Hillary Clinton, why should it be on the Democratic ticket? Is it an impossible dream to form a new political party that actually represents the PEOPLE for a change?

Zinn himself says:
The Left hasn't reached out to people with a clear, coherent, and emotional message. The Left often does not know how to talk to other people.

I´ll say it again: Is it an impossible dream to form a new political party that actually represents the PEOPLE for a change?

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Another Renaissance
Posted by: ChristopherLL on May 17, 2006 3:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree that theories such as Marxism should be resurrected to help plan and implement better strategies for economic development. I also believe others theories such as Psychosexual (beginning with Freud) should be reintroduced into this culture. The two most potent unconscious forces, sexuality and aggression, to me are obviously out of balance in this country. We are now in what I believe to be a form of the Dark Ages when all forms of human endeavor were subordinated by rigid and punitive religious fundamentalism. The state has once again used the Bible as a fascist document. Technology has detached us from nature (mostly our own nature) and leads to militarism (as it has). Only by a type of renaissance by which we can read, understand and incoporate into our culture those who had a better insight into reality and humanity than we do now.

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wrong and right
Posted by: rsaxto on May 17, 2006 4:16 AM   
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The prime function of the Bushies seems to be: this is how to do it wrong and other folks should figure how to do it right. When there are so many good and intelligent people in the USA why did the Bushies choose to put scum in power? It is a mystery easily explained by noting that their real GOD is graft, money and baloney. The solution is quite simple: only choose public servants who are not addicted to graft, money and lies. Is that so hard for Republicans and Democrats to do? Is Hillary now one of those nasty people who are addicted to graft, money and baloney?

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» RE: wrong and right Posted by: Kanefire
» RE: wrong and right Posted by: Longdream

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PERSISTENCE and SYNCRINICITY
Posted by: brendastarr on May 17, 2006 4:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last night I wrote the following and posted it on the WAWA BLOG:
http://www.wearewideawake.org

May 17, 2006

Today is the first day of Tikkun's second conference for spiritual progrressives. I will be receiving my first PRESS Credentials and hopefully within the next few days I will be interviewing John Dear, Johnathon Granoff, Matthew Fox and Jim Wallis.

With me I have 100 DVD's of "30 Minutes with Vanunu"* and will be delivering them to Congress on May 18th along with my letter above.**

"FREEDOM of the press depends on the energy and persistence of people in developing their own newspapers, magazines, pamplets, [Editor note: and blogs] to say things that will not appear in the mainstream press."-Howard Zinn


**The Letter to Senator Clinton, and all members of Congress was posted on the blog May 14.

The DVD*
30 Minutes with Vanunu

DID NOT go through Israeli Military Censors as is required by all media.

The media has yet to followup on his historic FREEDOM OF SPEECH trial in the ethnocracy of Israel.

Zinn understands-as do I-we only have our liberties if we TAKE them and freedom of speech doesn't mean jack, unless we have something to say and say it without FEAR of the consequences.

"You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free."
- John 8:32


"If enough Christians followed the gospel, they could bring any state to its knees." -Father Philip Francis Berrigan

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What the Left doesn't know
Posted by: hagwind on May 17, 2006 4:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Howard Zinn said: "The Left hasn't reached out to people with a clear, coherent, and emotional message. The Left often does not know how to talk to other people."

One might add that the Left does not know how to talk to itself either. I spent some time yesterday morning watching the high-speed train wreck that followed the posting of Sam Harris's essay about atheism and religion. Just in case you thought that the religious fundamentalists have a monopoly on closed minds . . .

Several exasperated posters faulted AlterNet for posting the essay. The gist of their argument was, I think, that the discussion was distracting us from more important issues. (I caught a whiff of the same thing when Professor Zinn made a distinction between "spiritual values" and "how are people living and dying." As if the one isn't inextricably bound up with the other?) I understand their concern, but where does it lead? How many issues have to be taken off the table in order to prevent meltdown on the Left?

"Talking to other people" starts with listening. How much listening takes place when one starts yelling and squelching as soon as one hears something disagreeable?

Maybe we're forgetting how much is at stake. I believe that the effectiveness and credibility of the Democratic Party depend on the effectiveness and credibility of both the Left and the feminist movement, both of which have long since come adrift from their grass roots. We could take a lesson from the radical right here: look what it managed to do to the Republican Party. (Remember when! Some of the congressional heroes of the anti-Vietnam War movement were Republicans.)

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» RE: What the Left doesn't know Posted by: Kanefire

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There is no American Left, only a PseudoLeft created by the Overclass
Posted by: cry0fan on May 17, 2006 5:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]


The Democratic Party is pitiful. Not only are they not articulating a spiritual message, as Lerner says, they don't even have a political message. The Democrats are tied to corporate wealth. And they are incompetent when it comes to understanding how to win elections. By the time Kerry ran, the public had actually shifted. Fifty percent were against the war. The Democrats should have been saying they would end the war, and make those dollars available for healthcare.


The problem with the democrats is that they have been ideologically coopted by the PseudoLeft, which has been created by the overclass via nonprofit foundations and think tanks that have generated years of propaganda used to shift the focus of Leftism in America towards Identity Politics.

This Identity Politics Leftism has focused on social issues oriented specifically towards race and gender, and it has a core element of thought that whites, especially white males are inherently evil.
This has alienated white males from leftism. Whites make up 70% of All Americans.

So this has crippled leftism in America.

Also, Zinn states the conventional wisdom in American PseudoLeftism, that "the poor" and minorities should be the focus of leftism. Quite wrong. THe working class Americans should be the focus of Leftism. THey are the majority. Any leftism that does not have the majority as its core client demographic is doomed.

Again, this is JUST the kind of Leftism that the overclass wants. What better choice than to be able to create your own enemy?

THe american left is fragmented and weak, you say? Gee, I wonder why.........

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» Case in point Posted by: Kanefire

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Protest and Resistance
Posted by: Lincoln fan on May 17, 2006 6:10 AM   
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"but there is no magical panacea, only persistence in continuing and escalating the usual tactics of protest and resistance."

While this is certainly true, the usual tactics of protest and resistance can be used in a new and different way; in a more efficient way.

Protest can be more than carrying a sign. Taking to the streets is inefficient. To be effective it has to be covered by the press. Without media coverage the people in power won't hear the protest.

In the long run, most protests are against the control of our government by the corporate establishment. And this group owns the mainstream media. They aren't anxious to publicize protests against themselves,

The establisment controls our government through both political parties which they finance and lobby. Therefore the targets of our protests should be the leadership of both parties. The easiest and most efficient way to give them the message is directly. That is to write letters directly to the parties' leaders voicing our issues. While it may be hard for them to ignore a million man march that lasts a few hours, it would be even harder for them to ignore 10,000 letters a day flooding their mailrooms for 100 days.

Resistance at demonstrations is mainly symbolic. Usually it boils down to refusal to disperse. This order is then enforced by the police. The police are paid by the taxes of the protesters for this service to the establishment. Ironic? Yes, but not a very potent resistance.

The target of the resistance should also be the leaders of both parties. Their main job is to get candidates elected. The biggest threat that they can get is a threat to not vote for their candidates. This threat is resistance with muscle.

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bicyclebarron
Posted by: Bicyclebarron on May 17, 2006 6:28 AM   
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One other point that should be made about many of the folks in power today is the disconnect from the poor. Spend some time in the South Bronx or upstate communities like Malone in NY and you find many lives decimated by the economic policies that have been in place since 1980. It is incredible to me to work in these communites and then listen to politicans talk about the wonderful economy. The very poor in this country have no voice in the federal government and little representation at the state level as well.

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» RE: bicyclebarron Posted by: Lincoln fan

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PAUL WILLIAMS paul.williams@yahoo.com
Posted by: november man on May 17, 2006 9:51 AM   
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IN ORDER TO COMMUNICATE TO AMERICANS YOU MUST UNDERSTAND: the problem can be solved if you think of how to present the reality in everyday UNDERSTANDABLE terms--every time you mention an issue, you must teach people how to count (or they won't count) and understand the PROPORTION of issues, e.g. we spend $500,000,000 on ONE b-2 bomber=sending every kid in the country to junior college for that same ONE b-2 bomber--we have squadrons of them; the watts fires cost $100,000,000--the plane AF1 that bush sr flew in on costs 20 (WATTS FIRES) x$100,000,000 = $2 billion FOR AIR FORCE ONE... we could rebuild Watts 20 times for $2 billion.

YOU NEED A SERIES OF EQUIVALENTS: NUMBERS AND A CONCRETE DRAMATIC IMAGE to speak on all issues to the american people; just do your research of COSTS and find the PROPORTIONAL POPULIST IMAGE!!!

LET'S NOT ARGUE ABOUT SPIRITUAL VALUES--JUST LET'S TALK ABOUT THE RULES OF THE GAME, MONEY RATHER THAN GOD--A FAIR DEAL--LEARN HOW TO COUNT AND YOU WILL COUNT!

Always stress WHEN YOU WRITE that individuals are not alone responsible for their plight, they may be captain of their own ships but the tide that rises the ships of the wealthy LOWERS the tide of their own individual ship--people want to be responsible but they must be told they are fighting upstream, a stream that is being manipulated by corporate wealth!

Stress that the individual can not succeed in this economic game, because it is fixed against the poorer players--abner doubleday made up the rules of baseball and every ball player tries to get hits and runs, but 3 strikes and your out, 90 feet to first base are the rules of the game=you try to do well but the wealthy have made you run 180 feet to first base, 1 strike and your out... etc THE BALL PLAYER IS A MICRO ECONOMIC PLAYER, but RICH OLD ABNER DOUBLEDAY MAKES THE RULES OF THE GAME (MACROECONOMICS)... FOR HIS OWN BENEFIT, NOT YOURS, YOU are just poor sheep in abner's eyes!

As, just for the record, Jesus said, we are our brothers' keepers.

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What would Jesus do?
Posted by: coacher on May 17, 2006 10:56 AM   
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Concerning religion, the right's primary issues seem to be banning gay marriage, banning abortion, school vouchers, and the Ten Commandments. Kurt Vonnegut is fond of saying something along the lines of the Sermon on the Mount being the basis for liberal causes. It seems to me, the Sermon on the Mount could be the basis for an entire political philosophy of the left. I'm not terribly familiar with it, but I can see a foreign policy based on expanding soft power and using aid programs in an effort to make diplomacy a tool again after the Bush Administration is gone. Domestically, healthcare, education, and social security could probably find support in it. What would Jesus do if he were President? Would he bomb Iraq? Or would he be more likely to use that money to make sure everyone has access to healthcare and higher education?

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All things are born first in spirit
Posted by: Kanefire on May 17, 2006 11:35 AM   
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I like what master zinn has to say. I am a big fan. One point that I would like to make is that when Zinn says,
"My differences with Lerner, though, reside in the proportion of attention he pays to spiritual values. These are important, but they're not the critical issue. The issue is how are people living and dying. People are dying in Iraq and our wealth is being squandered on war and the military budget."
I would say that although on surface level he is right, however, when one looks deeper, one will see that all things are born first in spirit. Look at any indigeounous belief system, even the bible. The spirit of America is why the people are living and dying the way they are. Our spirit is why we are squandering our wealth. Commercialism is the root of our nations spirit. This commercialism is born of fear. Fear of not having enough. The root fear.
I would further like to say that publicly (as opposed to personally) Lerner has taken on the torch of spirituality, therefore Zinn is free to ponder the politics, but since he made the spirituality/political comment, I felt it needed to be addressed.

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what an odd comment on spirituality
Posted by: Michelle on May 17, 2006 11:49 AM   
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I find it odd and significant that Zinn disconnects material reality (how people are living and dying) from "spiritual."

I guess it's a hallmark of a culture in which religion/spirituality is individualistic and strongly disconnectd from collective ways of life, land relationships and the day to day.

No, wait, that's not precisely true -- underlying spiritual perspectives of Christianity, for example, strongly shape how people in the United States live and the whole "how people are living and dying" situation right now, globally. And supposed alternatives in the U.S. (including rationalism and New Age) reflect and promote the same enacted values of individualism and disconnection.

Spirituality -- good or bad -- is always inextricably tied to the material realities in a recipirocal relationship. For example, spirituality is part of cultural systems of specific peoples, and the cultural system guides how specific peoples relate in action to the land we live on, and shapes our collectively/materially enacted ignorance or understanding of our place in the larger ecosystem.

I know fans of Marx have a problem with "too much" attention to spirit, but I think that Marxists miss the mark on this point. It is all part of the same thing. Just because Western/white/European approaches are based on individualism and disconnection doesn't mean that this is the reality of the relationship between the material and the spiritual.

Of course, I find Michael Lerner's take pretty assimilated/annoying, so I don't think his perspective is a good counterpoint here.

I prefer Vine Deloria, Jr's perspective, myself. (e.g., God Is Red)

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Zinn is my hero
Posted by: redjenny on May 17, 2006 12:01 PM   
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He has his head screwed on straight. I think this article was definitely worth a read - it is grounding.

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Could this be the year . . ?
Posted by: Baranga on May 17, 2006 1:44 PM   
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Given the overwhelming impotence and clumsiness of the Democratic party and the Republican party's increasingly apparent psychotic break with reality, doesn't anyone think it's high time we began fielding some grounded, honest and disconnected (by that I mean coming from outside the incestuous political loop) 3rd and 4th party candidates? God forbid we actually elect some candidates who give a fuck about trivial things like the environment, balancing the budget, and dare I say it, UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE? That's for you Cry0.

Maybe we could even elect some people who would advocate pulling our silly asses out of Iraq and not bombing Iran . . . Wishful thinking - maybe, but I don't think Dems or Repukes are the answer anymore. Come on let's throw these A-holes out on their heads and bring in some truly fresh thinkers.

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» What do you mean "we"? Posted by: Longdream

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The Hands of the People.
Posted by: Longdream on May 19, 2006 9:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Zinn has always taken a classical Marxist approach to religion--that God and his partner, violence, are the refuge of the profoundly alienated--the opiate of the people, 21st Century Style. He even admonishes radical liberation theologists like me to pay close attention to the insidious and very terrible powers of the Church.

Dan Berrigan, SJ, sorely missed Father Phil Berrigan, and Miss Dorothy Day, with all of whom I found my political legs, would say that the social teachings of the Church--the REAL social teachings, call for a non-violent life, and a dedication to the poor. They worked their whole lives fighting racism, war, injustice and poverty. For them, it was necessary not only to be political, but to feed the poor with their own hands.

They are the people who define the terms Left, Liberal and Progressive for me. I don't understand any of those terms without a relationship to the disenfranchised in our society, and wonder how someone can be progressive and forget the hungry and the desperate.

Zinn insists that this era of Government by the Bible sprung out of the hordes of people left behind by Reagonomics and Clintonian Big Business, in which there was a boom, but not for low-income earners, or the poor. What we get with a country left behind is religion and guns. All that was needed was an opportunistic government to harness both to its advantage, and an unbreakable conglomerate was formed.

Fundamentalists Christians comprise only about twenty-five percent of the population, but only fifty percent of Americans vote at any given time. If they're given their marching orders from the pulpit, and people with progressive values don't have an equally galvanizing enthusiasm, can't get out of the trivia and can't even stop arguing over how bad-to-worse the Democratic candidates are, we aren't going to make it.

I was absolutely astounded that the huge population of Latino immigrants who turned out in the streets for their human rights were not joined by millions of African-Americans, Italian-Americans, Chinese-Americans, Irish-Americans, and Korean-Americans, in solidarity with not only the present issue, but with their fathers and grandfathers who knew what it was to be unemployed and spat upon.

At the risk of echoing Crybaby, I don't think it's only the Democrats who are toothless. It's a privileged class of progressives who can't get out of our own way until everything is perfect--the right candidate with no flaws who never lost an election, the march for the right cause, the right slogans being shouted in the right language, the one Holy and Absolute solution to the complexities of the immigration problem.

We can't eliminate doubt. We are all operating on incomplete and often false information. There is no perfection in anyone or anything that is going to save us. Coming together on the side of the poorest in our nation, and extending that arm to include the poorest in the world will save us. If we do that, everything else falls into place.

The Church is in the hands of the People. Believe it.

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I'd take Zinn a little more seriously...
Posted by: Burton on May 21, 2006 9:56 PM   
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...if he hadn't gotten involved in the "Anyone But Bush" campaign. But it's endemic on the left. Every time there is a real movement which might have a chance of winning, the left finds some reason to self-destruct.

The movement built up from 1999 Seattle, the Nader campaign, the antiwar protests, Michael Moore, et alia, was all dissipated when the left threw itself behind Kerry and the Dems in 2004. And what did the left get in return?

Not a durned thing.

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Alternet Comments:

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Marian Wright Edelman for President? Yes, but should she represent a Decadent Party?
Posted by: ZPaul on May 17, 2006 1:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
True, the Democrats are ties to corporate wealth. So if Marian Wright Edelman should run for President instead of conservative Hillary Clinton, why should it be on the Democratic ticket? Is it an impossible dream to form a new political party that actually represents the PEOPLE for a change?

Zinn himself says:
The Left hasn't reached out to people with a clear, coherent, and emotional message. The Left often does not know how to talk to other people.

I´ll say it again: Is it an impossible dream to form a new political party that actually represents the PEOPLE for a change?

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Another Renaissance
Posted by: ChristopherLL on May 17, 2006 3:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree that theories such as Marxism should be resurrected to help plan and implement better strategies for economic development. I also believe others theories such as Psychosexual (beginning with Freud) should be reintroduced into this culture. The two most potent unconscious forces, sexuality and aggression, to me are obviously out of balance in this country. We are now in what I believe to be a form of the Dark Ages when all forms of human endeavor were subordinated by rigid and punitive religious fundamentalism. The state has once again used the Bible as a fascist document. Technology has detached us from nature (mostly our own nature) and leads to militarism (as it has). Only by a type of renaissance by which we can read, understand and incoporate into our culture those who had a better insight into reality and humanity than we do now.

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wrong and right
Posted by: rsaxto on May 17, 2006 4:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The prime function of the Bushies seems to be: this is how to do it wrong and other folks should figure how to do it right. When there are so many good and intelligent people in the USA why did the Bushies choose to put scum in power? It is a mystery easily explained by noting that their real GOD is graft, money and baloney. The solution is quite simple: only choose public servants who are not addicted to graft, money and lies. Is that so hard for Republicans and Democrats to do? Is Hillary now one of those nasty people who are addicted to graft, money and baloney?

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» RE: wrong and right Posted by: Kanefire
» RE: wrong and right Posted by: Longdream

Comments are closed-

PERSISTENCE and SYNCRINICITY
Posted by: brendastarr on May 17, 2006 4:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last night I wrote the following and posted it on the WAWA BLOG:
http://www.wearewideawake.org

May 17, 2006

Today is the first day of Tikkun's second conference for spiritual progrressives. I will be receiving my first PRESS Credentials and hopefully within the next few days I will be interviewing John Dear, Johnathon Granoff, Matthew Fox and Jim Wallis.

With me I have 100 DVD's of "30 Minutes with Vanunu"* and will be delivering them to Congress on May 18th along with my letter above.**

"FREEDOM of the press depends on the energy and persistence of people in developing their own newspapers, magazines, pamplets, [Editor note: and blogs] to say things that will not appear in the mainstream press."-Howard Zinn


**The Letter to Senator Clinton, and all members of Congress was posted on the blog May 14.

The DVD*
30 Minutes with Vanunu

DID NOT go through Israeli Military Censors as is required by all media.

The media has yet to followup on his historic FREEDOM OF SPEECH trial in the ethnocracy of Israel.

Zinn understands-as do I-we only have our liberties if we TAKE them and freedom of speech doesn't mean jack, unless we have something to say and say it without FEAR of the consequences.

"You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free."
- John 8:32


"If enough Christians followed the gospel, they could bring any state to its knees." -Father Philip Francis Berrigan

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What the Left doesn't know
Posted by: hagwind on May 17, 2006 4:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Howard Zinn said: "The Left hasn't reached out to people with a clear, coherent, and emotional message. The Left often does not know how to talk to other people."

One might add that the Left does not know how to talk to itself either. I spent some time yesterday morning watching the high-speed train wreck that followed the posting of Sam Harris's essay about atheism and religion. Just in case you thought that the religious fundamentalists have a monopoly on closed minds . . .

Several exasperated posters faulted AlterNet for posting the essay. The gist of their argument was, I think, that the discussion was distracting us from more important issues. (I caught a whiff of the same thing when Professor Zinn made a distinction between "spiritual values" and "how are people living and dying." As if the one isn't inextricably bound up with the other?) I understand their concern, but where does it lead? How many issues have to be taken off the table in order to prevent meltdown on the Left?

"Talking to other people" starts with listening. How much listening takes place when one starts yelling and squelching as soon as one hears something disagreeable?

Maybe we're forgetting how much is at stake. I believe that the effectiveness and credibility of the Democratic Party depend on the effectiveness and credibility of both the Left and the feminist movement, both of which have long since come adrift from their grass roots. We could take a lesson from the radical right here: look what it managed to do to the Republican Party. (Remember when! Some of the congressional heroes of the anti-Vietnam War movement were Republicans.)

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» RE: What the Left doesn't know Posted by: Kanefire

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There is no American Left, only a PseudoLeft created by the Overclass
Posted by: cry0fan on May 17, 2006 5:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]


The Democratic Party is pitiful. Not only are they not articulating a spiritual message, as Lerner says, they don't even have a political message. The Democrats are tied to corporate wealth. And they are incompetent when it comes to understanding how to win elections. By the time Kerry ran, the public had actually shifted. Fifty percent were against the war. The Democrats should have been saying they would end the war, and make those dollars available for healthcare.


The problem with the democrats is that they have been ideologically coopted by the PseudoLeft, which has been created by the overclass via nonprofit foundations and think tanks that have generated years of propaganda used to shift the focus of Leftism in America towards Identity Politics.

This Identity Politics Leftism has focused on social issues oriented specifically towards race and gender, and it has a core element of thought that whites, especially white males are inherently evil.
This has alienated white males from leftism. Whites make up 70% of All Americans.

So this has crippled leftism in America.

Also, Zinn states the conventional wisdom in American PseudoLeftism, that "the poor" and minorities should be the focus of leftism. Quite wrong. THe working class Americans should be the focus of Leftism. THey are the majority. Any leftism that does not have the majority as its core client demographic is doomed.

Again, this is JUST the kind of Leftism that the overclass wants. What better choice than to be able to create your own enemy?

THe american left is fragmented and weak, you say? Gee, I wonder why.........

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» Case in point Posted by: Kanefire

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Protest and Resistance
Posted by: Lincoln fan on May 17, 2006 6:10 AM   
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"but there is no magical panacea, only persistence in continuing and escalating the usual tactics of protest and resistance."

While this is certainly true, the usual tactics of protest and resistance can be used in a new and different way; in a more efficient way.

Protest can be more than carrying a sign. Taking to the streets is inefficient. To be effective it has to be covered by the press. Without media coverage the people in power won't hear the protest.

In the long run, most protests are against the control of our government by the corporate establishment. And this group owns the mainstream media. They aren't anxious to publicize protests against themselves,

The establisment controls our government through both political parties which they finance and lobby. Therefore the targets of our protests should be the leadership of both parties. The easiest and most efficient way to give them the message is directly. That is to write letters directly to the parties' leaders voicing our issues. While it may be hard for them to ignore a million man march that lasts a few hours, it would be even harder for them to ignore 10,000 letters a day flooding their mailrooms for 100 days.

Resistance at demonstrations is mainly symbolic. Usually it boils down to refusal to disperse. This order is then enforced by the police. The police are paid by the taxes of the protesters for this service to the establishment. Ironic? Yes, but not a very potent resistance.

The target of the resistance should also be the leaders of both parties. Their main job is to get candidates elected. The biggest threat that they can get is a threat to not vote for their candidates. This threat is resistance with muscle.

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bicyclebarron
Posted by: Bicyclebarron on May 17, 2006 6:28 AM   
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One other point that should be made about many of the folks in power today is the disconnect from the poor. Spend some time in the South Bronx or upstate communities like Malone in NY and you find many lives decimated by the economic policies that have been in place since 1980. It is incredible to me to work in these communites and then listen to politicans talk about the wonderful economy. The very poor in this country have no voice in the federal government and little representation at the state level as well.

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» RE: bicyclebarron Posted by: Lincoln fan

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PAUL WILLIAMS paul.williams@yahoo.com
Posted by: november man on May 17, 2006 9:51 AM   
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IN ORDER TO COMMUNICATE TO AMERICANS YOU MUST UNDERSTAND: the problem can be solved if you think of how to present the reality in everyday UNDERSTANDABLE terms--every time you mention an issue, you must teach people how to count (or they won't count) and understand the PROPORTION of issues, e.g. we spend $500,000,000 on ONE b-2 bomber=sending every kid in the country to junior college for that same ONE b-2 bomber--we have squadrons of them; the watts fires cost $100,000,000--the plane AF1 that bush sr flew in on costs 20 (WATTS FIRES) x$100,000,000 = $2 billion FOR AIR FORCE ONE... we could rebuild Watts 20 times for $2 billion.

YOU NEED A SERIES OF EQUIVALENTS: NUMBERS AND A CONCRETE DRAMATIC IMAGE to speak on all issues to the american people; just do your research of COSTS and find the PROPORTIONAL POPULIST IMAGE!!!

LET'S NOT ARGUE ABOUT SPIRITUAL VALUES--JUST LET'S TALK ABOUT THE RULES OF THE GAME, MONEY RATHER THAN GOD--A FAIR DEAL--LEARN HOW TO COUNT AND YOU WILL COUNT!

Always stress WHEN YOU WRITE that individuals are not alone responsible for their plight, they may be captain of their own ships but the tide that rises the ships of the wealthy LOWERS the tide of their own individual ship--people want to be responsible but they must be told they are fighting upstream, a stream that is being manipulated by corporate wealth!

Stress that the individual can not succeed in this economic game, because it is fixed against the poorer players--abner doubleday made up the rules of baseball and every ball player tries to get hits and runs, but 3 strikes and your out, 90 feet to first base are the rules of the game=you try to do well but the wealthy have made you run 180 feet to first base, 1 strike and your out... etc THE BALL PLAYER IS A MICRO ECONOMIC PLAYER, but RICH OLD ABNER DOUBLEDAY MAKES THE RULES OF THE GAME (MACROECONOMICS)... FOR HIS OWN BENEFIT, NOT YOURS, YOU are just poor sheep in abner's eyes!

As, just for the record, Jesus said, we are our brothers' keepers.

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What would Jesus do?
Posted by: coacher on May 17, 2006 10:56 AM   
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Concerning religion, the right's primary issues seem to be banning gay marriage, banning abortion, school vouchers, and the Ten Commandments. Kurt Vonnegut is fond of saying something along the lines of the Sermon on the Mount being the basis for liberal causes. It seems to me, the Sermon on the Mount could be the basis for an entire political philosophy of the left. I'm not terribly familiar with it, but I can see a foreign policy based on expanding soft power and using aid programs in an effort to make diplomacy a tool again after the Bush Administration is gone. Domestically, healthcare, education, and social security could probably find support in it. What would Jesus do if he were President? Would he bomb Iraq? Or would he be more likely to use that money to make sure everyone has access to healthcare and higher education?

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All things are born first in spirit
Posted by: Kanefire on May 17, 2006 11:35 AM   
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I like what master zinn has to say. I am a big fan. One point that I would like to make is that when Zinn says,
"My differences with Lerner, though, reside in the proportion of attention he pays to spiritual values. These are important, but they're not the critical issue. The issue is how are people living and dying. People are dying in Iraq and our wealth is being squandered on war and the military budget."
I would say that although on surface level he is right, however, when one looks deeper, one will see that all things are born first in spirit. Look at any indigeounous belief system, even the bible. The spirit of America is why the people are living and dying the way they are. Our spirit is why we are squandering our wealth. Commercialism is the root of our nations spirit. This commercialism is born of fear. Fear of not having enough. The root fear.
I would further like to say that publicly (as opposed to personally) Lerner has taken on the torch of spirituality, therefore Zinn is free to ponder the politics, but since he made the spirituality/political comment, I felt it needed to be addressed.

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what an odd comment on spirituality
Posted by: Michelle on May 17, 2006 11:49 AM   
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I find it odd and significant that Zinn disconnects material reality (how people are living and dying) from "spiritual."

I guess it's a hallmark of a culture in which religion/spirituality is individualistic and strongly disconnectd from collective ways of life, land relationships and the day to day.

No, wait, that's not precisely true -- underlying spiritual perspectives of Christianity, for example, strongly shape how people in the United States live and the whole "how people are living and dying" situation right now, globally. And supposed alternatives in the U.S. (including rationalism and New Age) reflect and promote the same enacted values of individualism and disconnection.

Spirituality -- good or bad -- is always inextricably tied to the material realities in a recipirocal relationship. For example, spirituality is part of cultural systems of specific peoples, and the cultural system guides how specific peoples relate in action to the land we live on, and shapes our collectively/materially enacted ignorance or understanding of our place in the larger ecosystem.

I know fans of Marx have a problem with "too much" attention to spirit, but I think that Marxists miss the mark on this point. It is all part of the same thing. Just because Western/white/European approaches are based on individualism and disconnection doesn't mean that this is the reality of the relationship between the material and the spiritual.

Of course, I find Michael Lerner's take pretty assimilated/annoying, so I don't think his perspective is a good counterpoint here.

I prefer Vine Deloria, Jr's perspective, myself. (e.g., God Is Red)

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Zinn is my hero
Posted by: redjenny on May 17, 2006 12:01 PM   
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He has his head screwed on straight. I think this article was definitely worth a read - it is grounding.

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Could this be the year . . ?
Posted by: Baranga on May 17, 2006 1:44 PM   
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Given the overwhelming impotence and clumsiness of the Democratic party and the Republican party's increasingly apparent psychotic break with reality, doesn't anyone think it's high time we began fielding some grounded, honest and disconnected (by that I mean coming from outside the incestuous political loop) 3rd and 4th party candidates? God forbid we actually elect some candidates who give a fuck about trivial things like the environment, balancing the budget, and dare I say it, UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE? That's for you Cry0.

Maybe we could even elect some people who would advocate pulling our silly asses out of Iraq and not bombing Iran . . . Wishful thinking - maybe, but I don't think Dems or Repukes are the answer anymore. Come on let's throw these A-holes out on their heads and bring in some truly fresh thinkers.

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» What do you mean "we"? Posted by: Longdream

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The Hands of the People.
Posted by: Longdream on May 19, 2006 9:54 AM   
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Zinn has always taken a classical Marxist approach to religion--that God and his partner, violence, are the refuge of the profoundly alienated--the opiate of the people, 21st Century Style. He even admonishes radical liberation theologists like me to pay close attention to the insidious and very terrible powers of the Church.

Dan Berrigan, SJ, sorely missed Father Phil Berrigan, and Miss Dorothy Day, with all of whom I found my political legs, would say that the social teachings of the Church--the REAL social teachings, call for a non-violent life, and a dedication to the poor. They worked their whole lives fighting racism, war, injustice and poverty. For them, it was necessary not only to be political, but to feed the poor with their own hands.

They are the people who define the terms Left, Liberal and Progressive for me. I don't understand any of those terms without a relationship to the disenfranchised in our society, and wonder how someone can be progressive and forget the hungry and the desperate.

Zinn insists that this era of Government by the Bible sprung out of the hordes of people left behind by Reagonomics and Clintonian Big Business, in which there was a boom, but not for low-income earners, or the poor. What we get with a country left behind is religion and guns. All that was needed was an opportunistic government to harness both to its advantage, and an unbreakable conglomerate was formed.

Fundamentalists Christians comprise only about twenty-five percent of the population, but only fifty percent of Americans vote at any given time. If they're given their marching orders from the pulpit, and people with progressive values don't have an equally galvanizing enthusiasm, can't get out of the trivia and can't even stop arguing over how bad-to-worse the Democratic candidates are, we aren't going to make it.

I was absolutely astounded that the huge population of Latino immigrants who turned out in the streets for their human rights were not joined by millions of African-Americans, Italian-Americans, Chinese-Americans, Irish-Americans, and Korean-Americans, in solidarity with not only the present issue, but with their fathers and grandfathers who knew what it was to be unemployed and spat upon.

At the risk of echoing Crybaby, I don't think it's only the Democrats who are toothless. It's a privileged class of progressives who can't get out of our own way until everything is perfect--the right candidate with no flaws who never lost an election, the march for the right cause, the right slogans being shouted in the right language, the one Holy and Absolute solution to the complexities of the immigration problem.

We can't eliminate doubt. We are all operating on incomplete and often false information. There is no perfection in anyone or anything that is going to save us. Coming together on the side of the poorest in our nation, and extending that arm to include the poorest in the world will save us. If we do that, everything else falls into place.

The Church is in the hands of the People. Believe it.

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I'd take Zinn a little more seriously...
Posted by: Burton on May 21, 2006 9:56 PM   
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...if he hadn't gotten involved in the "Anyone But Bush" campaign. But it's endemic on the left. Every time there is a real movement which might have a chance of winning, the left finds some reason to self-destruct.

The movement built up from 1999 Seattle, the Nader campaign, the antiwar protests, Michael Moore, et alia, was all dissipated when the left threw itself behind Kerry and the Dems in 2004. And what did the left get in return?

Not a durned thing.

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