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On Being Black at a Latino March

By Van Jones, Huffington Post. Posted May 5, 2006.


Just as non-blacks supported our freedom movement in the last century, I am determined to give my passionate support to this righteous cause.

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At Monday's "Dia Sin Inmigrantes/Day Without Immigrants" march in San Francisco, I saw a beautiful, exciting and hopeful vision of the future of this country. I also caught a glimpse of a familiar past, fading away. And I shed a few tears for both.  

From the moment I boarded the BART car, I knew this May Day march and rally would differ from the Bay Area's usual protest fare. The trains headed into downtown San Francisco were filled with working-class Latinos, all wearing white; most had kids in tow. There were few protest signs or banners, but the stars and stripes were everywhere. One tyke on my train kept trying to poke his cousin with a little American flag.  

Some of the teeniest kids were wearing their older sibling's white T-shirts with their shirt hems hanging down past their knees. The children were all well-scrubbed and happy ... and very proud.  

So were their parents. They knew they were part of something new, and big, and promising.  

The bright mood contrasted starkly with the dreary atmosphere that chokes most protests nowadays. On this march, I saw no resigned shuffling of already defeated feet. No sea of scowls. No pierced tongues, screaming. Nor could I spy a single person dragging behind her the weighty conviction that resistance -- though obligatory -- was futile.

To the contrary. Beaming, brown-skinned families walked off those trains with their heads held high. Sure, they may have been poor, facing tough challenges in the near term. But they stepped like they were marching into a future of limitless promise and potential.  

Their optimism brought tears to my eyes. And not only for the obvious reasons.  

Deep inside, I was grieving for my own people. I wished that my beloved African-American community had managed, somehow, to retain our own sparkling sense of faith in a magnificent future. There was once a time when we, too, marched forward together, filled with utter confidence in the new day dawning.  There was a time when we, too, believed that America's tomorrow held something bright for us ... and for our children.  

But those dreams have been eaten away by the AIDS virus, laid off by down-sizers, locked out by smiling bigots, shot up by gang-bangers and buried in a corporate-run prison yard. Now we cling to Black History Month for validation or inspiration. That's because Black Present Moment is so depressing -- with worse, almost certainly, on the way.  

When Katrina's floodwaters washed our problems back onto the front pages, the once-mighty Black Freedom Movement could not rise even to that occasion. Our legendary "movement" has collapsed, fallen apart. It is now a hollowed-out shell -- with our "spokespersons," both young and old, trying somehow to live off our past glories.  

Meanwhile, the white-shirted future was pouring itself down Market Street, chanting "Si, se puede!"  

My feelings of solidarity quickly trumped my sorrows. Thousands of people were standing up, here and across the United States, for their right to live and work in dignity in this country. Deep in my bones, I felt their pain, knew their hopes and affirmed their dreams. And just as non-blacks had supported our freedom movement in the last century, I was determined, as a non-immigrant, to give my passionate support to this righteous cause.  

So I joined the crowds in the street, trying to add my voice to the thunderous chants. But I quickly discovered that, good intentions notwithstanding, political solidarity is sometimes more easily felt than expressed.

My fellow marchers started roaring out: "Zapata! Vive! La lucha! Sigue!"  
I was like, Huh? What?
 
"Zapata! Vive! La lucha! Sigue!"
 
Say what?
 
Then louder, faster: "LaLuchaSigueSigue! ZapataViveVive! LaLuchaSigueSigue! ZapataViveVive!"  

Bewildered, but undeterred, I got myself a "chant sheet." I figured that I could use one of the official written guides to keep me in the know and on track. Sure enough, the handy leaflet spelled everything out very clearly: "Las Calles Son Del Pueblo! El Pueblo Donde Esta? El Pueblo Esta En Las Calles, Exigiendo Libertad!"  

Unfortunately, those words looked precisely like alphabet soup to me. I found myself desperately trying to remember back to 11th grade, wondering what sound an "x" makes in Spanish.  

Finally, I had to face the sad truth: I had B.S.-ed my way through all my high school and college language requirements. I had to admit that Mrs. Savage (from fourth-period Espanol) had been right, after all: I really hadn't cheated anyone but myself.  

Now I had to accept the miserable results: as an utterly monolingual English speaker, I wasn't even knowledgeable enough about the Spanish language to shout out simple phrases, during most of the protest.  

Okay, I told myself. Fine. I decided instead to just walk cheerfully along, clapping in time with the drummers. But even some of the Latin rhythms were unfamiliar, strangely syncopated. I couldn't always find the beat, despite my best efforts. (Suddenly, I was filled with love and sympathy for all those arhythmic white folks whom I used to make fun of at black rallies, parties and churches. I am so sorry, y'all!)  

Well, needless to say, I was on the verge of giving up. Then I found a solution: I would simply listen for any chant that had the word "Viva!" in it. For some reason, there were lots of chants with that word in it. And then, whenever appropriate, I would just raise my fist and shout "Viva!" along with the crowd, as loud as I could.  

And that was pretty much all I could do. I did it for a few hours, then went home. I hope it was enough. Because, despite feeling somewhat out of place, I was absolutely thrilled to see my sisters and brothers taking the future into their own hands. By simply standing up for their own kids and grandparents -- for their own dignity and futures -- activist Latinos today are pulling the nation to a higher level of fairness and inclusion.  

They are posing a simple and devastating question: should U.S. society continue to profit from the labor of 11 million people -- many of whom pick our fruit, nurse our children, clean our workplaces -- without embracing them fully, without honoring their work, without extending to them the same rights and respect we would want for ourselves?  

Can we countenance or tolerate a Jim Crow system -- in brown-face -- with a shunned tier of second-class workers, enriching society but lacking legal status and protections?  

Or are we willing to change our laws, and change our hearts, to embrace those upon whom our economy has come to rest? This is a simple moral challenge. The right answers are not easy, but they are obvious.  
I know there will be a backlash (there always is when people push for fairness), even coming from some black folks. But I also know that the Latino-led struggle for justice and inclusion offers hope to all of us. A national conversation about the true meaning of dignity, equality, opportunity and fair play in the modern economy can ultimately benefit every American community.  

I am confident that it will. Because during the two prior centuries, it was the African-American community that performed this service for the country. And we paid a high and awful cost in blood and martyrs. Unfortunately, we did not achieve all of our aims. But we did tear apartheid from pages of U.S. law books. And in the course of that struggle, we improved the lot of all Americans; expanding social programs, democratic rights and social tolerance for all people. And our efforts opened the doors for today's equality struggles. Our marching feet moved the whole nation forward.  

I cannot help but mourn the loss of a black community strong enough to put this nation on its back, and carry it forward, step by step, toward justice ... as we once did. But my pain only amplifies and underscores my joy that this marvelous new force has arisen, one that is capable -- in this tough, new era -- of deepening and extending the struggle to transform and redeem.  
Strong brown hands have grabbed hold of the U.S. flag. They are pulling it away from those who have monopolized it, from bullies who have abused the nation's symbols for their violent and illegitimate ends.  

I am glad. Because only a mass movement with broad shoulders -- and rough hands -- will have the power to win the coming tug-of-war for the heart and soul of this country. The Latino community has birthed just such a movement. If history is any guide, as Latinos and other immigrant communities raise core questions about their children's access to education, health care, jobs and safety, every American community will benefit hugely from their efforts. Including my own.  

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Van Jones is executive director of the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights in Oakland, California.

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Geez...
Posted by: doremi on May 5, 2006 12:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This smarmy little schmooze-fest has just gotta warm up GB's white ass like nothing else lately.

When are you folks gonna learn that the power driving this 'movement' is the world corporate greed interests, that these bastards can market anything and that includes a movement that looks good on the outside but is really about free-trade zones and third-world conditions here? When are you idiots gonna learn that whatever happens to America's borders and ideals can be exported AGAINST every other country in this world? When America ceases to be so will Mexico and Central America and South America and their rights to autonomy and self-determination. Every country in this world stands to lose their national identities, their cultural heritages and everything that has made any and all of us unique will be nothing more than a perverse Disneylandness that can be packaged and sold back to us as a perversion of 'who we are'.

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» RE: Geez... Posted by: tkwilson
» RE: Geez... Posted by: buffeliscious
re: a black at the Latino march
Posted by: fred_53_99 on May 5, 2006 5:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have watched blacks folks over the years simply get tired of the struggle. We have allowed the weakest amoung us dictate our image in the larger world. Worst many of us ar preoccupied dealing with the results of low sefl esteem , poverty, drugs , family disenigration, a ghettoized youth culture and just plain stupidty. Racism is at teh core of all this but if a man drops you into a hole ; don't expect him to pull you out. You have to do it your self. So for the moment we can look at Latinos and think " once we were like that" Perhaps we will once again.

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Many Latino/as are Black
Posted by: Celina on May 5, 2006 5:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you so much for your words. Your perspective is especially needed during this time. I just wanted to add, many Latino/as are Black--which I think many African Americans, and Americans in general, forget.

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African Americans Latinos are not mutually exclusive
Posted by: jleo on May 5, 2006 5:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As I read all the articles and listen to the rants on the radio, I see the emergence of this Mantra: Blacks and Latinos are exclusive! Who created this? Answer the GOP did. Reason is simple. A united front of African Americans and Latinos would represent a majority of voters in Texas and California and be a significant voting block in several other states.
As for this "mutual exclusiveness", let me quote a joke told to me by a friend from Barbados. "Same Boat, different Port"
When African Americans speak of the "Middle Passage" that passage includes places like Cuba, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, Panama, Venezuela, Brazil and even the coast of Mexico. Yes, the slave ships went there too! On this day Cinch de Mayo, how many African Americans are aware that the Alamo was about "Slavery". Yes Santa Anna's army, made up of Mexico Indians, who had been slaves under the Spanish, did not want slaver in their territory. They were fighting the good fight then, and their are fighting it now. The Immigrant rights moment is about human rights and basic standards of decency they we all benefit from! The right to a decent wage, to healthcare, to join a union and collective bargain, the opposite to the imperialist war in Iraq!
Many good folks (including many African Americans) are concerned about jobs and low wages. These fears are real but the immigrants are not driving wages down. Trade policies and anti union laws are doing that. Get real folks, look around and see all the potential allies you have! Freedom is in the Trying - Winton Marsalis

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Immigrants and Social Movements
Posted by: BobS on May 5, 2006 5:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of the reasons why the USA lags behind much of the industrialized world in terms of working class living standards is because of our complex racial and ethnic caste system.

Competition sounds great in an economic textbook, but any redblooded American capitalist will tell you that the best way to deal with the competition is to beat them senseless in the marketplace and create a monopoly.

While that approach has resulted in some great fortunes(and many failed small companies), it doesn't work so well for us working stiff types. In the eternal war between capital and labor, us non-capitalists should all be on the same team. Instead, we're divided along racial and ethnic lines and we're so busy brawling with each other that Capital runs away with the ball.

It's all of course a nasty legacy of our slavery and conquest history. It is interesting that there is a virtual media blackout on the efforts of the American labor movement to overcome this blot on our nation. For all of its weaknesses and shortcomings, the labor movement at least preaches the gospel of inter-racial unity and even practices it a surprising amount of the time.

Oh wait, our large media companies are large capitalist enterprises, why would they even want to help working class people overcome racial divisions? Duh...I think I get it now.

Anyway, here in Chicagoland, there was very little African American participation in La Marcha. On the other hand, there were not mass rallies of Black people demanding that these usurping furriners be sent back to whatever hellhole they came from.

In 1965, Martin Luther King had rocks thrown at him for trying to racially integrate Chicago's apartheid style neighborhoods.In 1969, a young Chicagoan named Fred Hampton was assassinated for the crime of advocating a Rainbow Coalition of Chicago's working class. In the 1980's, Chicago was called "Beruit on the Lake" because Harold Washington took that dream and tried to make it a political reality. None of these people checked the citizenship papers of those in their movement.

Today groups like Jobs with Justice continue that legacy.

Somehow, some people cling to the notion that racism and ethnic division is a curse not a blessing, and persist in the face of the considerable odds against them.

An immigrant named Tom Paine gave us the written inspiration for the American Revolution. Immigrants were an important part of the anti-slavery movement and the labor movement.

Today's immigrants help to remind us that social movements are one of the best things about America.

Bob Simpson (Grandson of Scottish immigrants)

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» RE: Immigrants and Social Movements Posted by: Asses of Evil
Thanks
Posted by: geming on May 5, 2006 6:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a refreshing perspective that has been hard to come by in the black community. Jesse Jackson wrote an amazing article "Si Se Puede" Means "We SHall Overcome" that all should read. I would like to add, however, that this movement is much greater than the Latino community. While there has been more organizing, outreach, and education in the Latino community (which is easier b/c it's one language), Asian, African, Carribean, and even European folks have been marching and demonstrating all over the county, and the much smaller activist community has been putting in triple time to make that happen.

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now, push those race-guilt buttons right!
Posted by: cry0fan on May 5, 2006 6:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and push 'em again.

Well, no, now, you are not really PUSHING the race guilt buttons. No, you are CREATING them. The politicians and pundits PUSH them via the news media.

The white PseudoLiberal voters are controlled by race guilt buttons and the PseudoPopulist Rightwinger voters are controlled by fear buttons (used to be fear of da commies, but now it's fear of dem "terraists" (gotta change with da times!)).

A filk for thou:
to be sung to the tune of "Play That Funky Music!"


Yeah, once I was a pro-pa-gan-dist....
writing in a Pseu-do-Lib-er-al rag

I never had no problems, yeah…
creating those race gult buttons

And everything around me, yeah…
got to start to feelin' so low

And I decided quickly [yes, I did]…
to disco down and check out the show

Yeah, they were dancin' and singin'
and movin' to the propaganda'

And just when it hit me
somebody turned around and shouted
"Push those Race Guilt buttons, white boy!"
"Push those Race Guilt buttons right!"

"Push those Race Guilt buttons, white boy!
Lay down that Propaganda
and psuh those race guilt buttons till you die…
(hey,hey) till you die…yeah, yeah"

Well, I tried to understand this…Yeah, huh,
I thought that they were out of their minds

How could they be so foolish,
So still I kept on writin'...

Yeah, they were dancin' and singin'
and movin' to the propaganda
And just when it hit me
somebody turned around and shouted
"Play that Propaganda, white boy...."



Well, anyway, you get the drift, and if you don't, here is the Cliff Notes version: one of the ways that the American Left has been subverted is that it has been focused on race and gender identity politics. That way the rich people don't have to worry about American politics being focused on economics like Europe is. IF we were not coaxed and propagandized into making race and gender a major focus of politics, then the rich people would be taxed a lot more, and we would have universal healthcare and a stronger welfare state, which empowers workers and disempowers capital.

So the rich people fund these nonprofits to create a new focus for American Leftism--race and gender. You can read more about this via google. Try Brandt's essay on nonprofits, multiculturalism, etc. Also read reviews of Roelofs' book, The Mask of Pluralism.
Also, this identity politics agenda is used to create race guilt buttons in white liberals that are pushed to manufacture consent for neoliberal policies like mass immigration, which is used by the overclass to push down wages.

Oh, and I realize that the author of the article is black. But hey, the lyrics work anyway....

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Good luck with the "no more bosses" thing.
Posted by: Longdream on May 5, 2006 6:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: tkwilson on May 5, 2006 5:30 AM:

"........when there are no more bosses, then will we have a shot at becoming fully human. Until then, we are all slaves."

Not trying to pick on you, tj, but the tired anarchist rhetoric is only any good when a Catholic Worker is putting it into practice at the other end, feeding the people.

The fact is that if there are two worms within a square foot of dirt, one of them is going to be the boss, or die trying. We'll never eliminate the bosses. But we have proven over and over again that if we can't force their hearts and minds to feel justice, we can force their hands to dispense it.

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This was telling . . .
Posted by: Baranga on May 5, 2006 6:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As someone who lives and breathes the Spanish language on a daily basis, albeit a somewhat different dialect known as Castellano, I have to say that I absolutely love the language along with all other Romance Languages. However I was struck by one paragraph in particular in this rambling essay:

"Now I had to accept the miserable results: as an utterly monolingual English speaker, I wasn't even knowledgeable enough about the Spanish language to shout out simple phrases, during most of the protest."

I don't agree with what is happening regarding amnesty, or however you want to phrase it, for many reasons but I have resigned myself to accepting that America is going to "adopt" 11-12 million people. This was not all that hard to reconcile myself with but the fact that this women is lamenting her lack of familiarity with Spanish troubling. I understand she just wants to speak Spanish and feels guilty for not speaking it but therein lies the problem. Theoretically I would stand to benefit from the influx of Spanish speakers as this certainly makes me a much more attractive employee someday but have we also made the decision to discard the English language altogether?? I don't know if that struck anyone else but when did the world reject the notion that one should adopt the local language when entering another country? I have lived in 4 foreign countries in my life, all of them using a language different than English and I always managed to get by, even in Czech and I can tell you that was not easy!! Most foreigners, even Americans, make a strong effort to learn the local language no matter if they master it or not.

Americans are always criticized for a prodigious lack of language skills, and to some extent I agree but are we not creating a new generation of Americans who are monolingual just like the rest? I can tell you that a language is a VERY unifying factor in a country and it would behoove everyone entering the US to learn English but as many of us know, many Latinos show a disdain for learning English. By all rights why should they? They can reside in entirely Spanish speaking neighborhoods and frequent Spanish speaking stores, restaurants and churches. Americans may be lacking in the language department but it is still their choice whether to learn a foreign language or not. America is an English speaking country with over 82% of its inhabitants using the language and that small consideration should be given to the country and its residents.

I'll preempt all those who are about to call me the following: racist, klansman, bigot, heathen, neo-con, hatemonger and repuke. I doubt those of you who don't speak Spanish (and being able to say"buenos dias" and conjugate the verb "ser" doesn't make you fluent either) are really going to appreciate being forced to learn Spanish on someone else's terms after having spoken English all your life. Let's not forget that there are plenty of older Americans who will simply not be able to learn the language anyway. It can still be done but I can tell you by watching the 65 and older crowd down here in BsAs fumble with it that for many it is an impossibilty and they deserve to be given that respect IMHO.

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» RE: This was telling . . . Posted by: Baranga
» RE: This was telling . . . Posted by: Longdream
» RE: This was telling . . . Posted by: VisionQuest
» RE: This was telling . . . Posted by: Longdream
» RE: This was telling . . . Posted by: Baranga
» RE: This was telling . . . Posted by: Longdream
» RE: This was telling . . . Posted by: Baranga
» RE: This was telling . . . Posted by: Longdream
» RE: This was telling . . . Posted by: Baranga
» RE: This was telling . . . Posted by: Longdream
» RE: This was telling . . . Posted by: Baranga
» RE: This was telling . . . Posted by: Longdream
» bilingual Posted by: Lauren
» RE: bilingual Posted by: Baranga
» RE: bilingual Posted by: rg
» RE: bilingual Posted by: Baranga
» RE: bilingual Posted by: Longdream
» RE: This was telling . . . Posted by: Asses of Evil
» RE: This was telling . . . Posted by: Baranga
» RE: This was telling . . . Posted by: Asses of Evil
» RE: This was telling . . . Posted by: Baranga
» RE: This was telling . . . Posted by: Asses of Evil
» RE: This was telling . . . Posted by: baviaan
» that was funny! Posted by: Michelle
» RE: that was funny! Posted by: Baranga
Troy Maples
Posted by: Troymaples on May 5, 2006 7:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Van Jones is sooo naive. He is falling into the corporate trap who's whole agenda is CHEAP labor. No one can blame the Mexican people for wanting a better life, but their future, as is all the people of the earth, is in their home country. They need to take their enthusiasm and bright hope of the future to Mexico. Mexico is not a third world country. There is plenty of wealth there if it was allowed to be shared with all the people. The corrupt Mexican oligarcy (who have absolute control of the government) simply want to dump their country's problems on the USA. Corporate America, who controls our government, wants to maintain a large surplus of labor so as to surpress wages. Folks, IT IS WORKING FOR THEM. Real wages here(purchasing power) are steadly declining. So the only answer for Americans is that the Mexican illegals MUST go home. No matter how great their need, our need comes first. Millions of people around the world have great needs, but we can't allow them to come here and trash our country because of it. I love my children and grand children too much to allow this to happen.

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» YOU are also naive Posted by: soosano
» RE: YOU are also naive Posted by: Asses of Evil
a luta continua
Posted by: squattyroo on May 5, 2006 8:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The struggle for multi-ethnic democracy IN the United States and in oppostion to neo-nativist , exclusionary & me-first policy must be supported by anyone with even vague pretensions of progressivism. "This is MY country", "I dont wanna learn another language", "Deport em all", "They taking all the strawberry-picking jobs!", "Sweden is better", &c as reasons to resist the democratic desires of a (generally)nonwhite, exploited population sounds uncomfortably like the knee-jerk spasms of the Buchanans & Malkins of the world.

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I still don't get it...
Posted by: cmaciain on May 5, 2006 8:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am all for immigrant rights. I am not for allowing illegal aliens the right to citizenship, benefits, etc. If they have overstayed their visas, try the legal way and get them extended. Also, go for Corporate America and punish the companies, not the workers, by taking everything made with illegal alien help. Can any of us go to a foreign country illegally and demand citizenship and pardon for illegal acts?

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» RE: I still don't get it... Posted by: ezilla
» RE: I still don't get it... Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: I still don't get it... Posted by: Longdream
» RE: I still don't get it... Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: I still don't get it... Posted by: Longdream
» RE: I still don't get it... Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: I still don't get it... Posted by: Longdream
» RE: I still don't get it... Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: I still don't get it... Posted by: Backstocker
» RE: I still don't get it... Posted by: cmaciain
» No, you sure don't. Posted by: ezilla
» RE: No, you sure don't. Posted by: Michelle
» RE: How cute!! Posted by: Baranga
» corrections Posted by: Michelle
» RE: Michelle's beliefs. Posted by: Baranga
» Well at least you're not in denial Posted by: Asses of Evil
» I can't speak for progressives Posted by: Michelle
» I think I can Posted by: YogiBear
» Go, Michelle! Posted by: Longdream
We should all fight together!
Posted by: Mrs. Denton-Jackson on May 5, 2006 9:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No matter what the color of our skin or ethics of our bakground no should be able tell us we have to go back where we come from. They one reason why they are trying to send them (Latino) back because they feel that they are taking all the jobs. They work hard just as we do, but even hader. I wacth on T.V. and seen how black people stood out there and said: Go back to where you came from. That Hurts! We should look back on how the white people said the same thing about us when we came over (they were the one that bought us here) . So we all should stand together fight for one another.

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What Is Eating You Folks!?
Posted by: davidt on May 5, 2006 1:26 PM   
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What is really striking about the bulk of the replies to Van Jones' article is the cynical, intemperate and stereotypical attitudes displayed for all to see. And remember, these are supposed to be enllightened ALTERNATIVE readers.

1. This RAMBLING essay is chock full of humanity. Van is telling you about feelings from the heart. He is a thoughful & compassionate author. Something that many of those that posted comments could add a lilttle to their demeanors.

2. I have seen & heard the phenomena of whites participating at a civil rights affair trying to follow the rhythmical patterns of the music being played and failing miserably. So damn what! The same folks, of all ages & nationalities who berate them would summon up the same "white images" if they weren't at attendance. i. e. Oh, they are to busy playinig golf, or tennis or being white and enjoying their money. These folks are plain old "dislikers" period. All races have them. So what if it is a little SMARMY to bring it up. Look at it another way and smarm turns to charm.

3. What was missing in the main thrust of the comments was a palatable sense of solidarity. Look, Native Americans, African-Americans, Yellow-Americans, Spanish-Americans which could then be distilled even further to veterans, students, women, parents, seniors and children are being assaulted by the Right & the Left--remember the Dumbdems who supported the tax cuts & the bankruptcy & the partial-birth abortion ban bills?

4. This leaves us with EACH other to try and form bonds that can form a machine with longevity that can combat this War Against The Others that has been carried out on a wide scale by the Bush Regime & their foot soldiers. If we don't make these overtures to, I believe, folks that are just looking for a partner, then the alternative I am ready to listen to.

5. People of all stripes are ready for a change, and they are also ready to participate in that change--Howard Dean proved it & that made him DANGEROUS, enough so that the Democratic Establishment aka DLC did their level best to assassinate him. The specially edited "scream video" was just one tool that this COALITION used.

I can only gather from most of the comments on this article that the corporate mind-traps that have been set so expertly & expansively have worked to change America for the worse. All hail Horowitz, Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, Malkin, Boortz, Reed, Bauer, Dobson et al...they have won. NOT!

It is up to each one of us to show some backbone, self-sacrifice and do whatever we can on whatever level that we can. Common Sense and Thomas Paine was not so long ago in our history that we can only find the easiest way out--just give up and piss on other's efforts. If you don't like what is being proposed then make your own proposal. Be you citizen or cynic?

World's full of critics, but not many Creators.

David T Gray
Claremont, NH

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» RE: What Is Eating You Folks!? Posted by: Samantha Vimes
» RE: What Is Eating You Folks!? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: What Is Eating You Folks!? Posted by: squattyroo
» RE: What Is Eating You Folks!? Posted by: Asses of Evil
» RE: What Is Eating You Folks!? Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: What Is Eating You Folks!? Posted by: Asses of Evil
» RE: What Is Eating You Folks!? Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: What Is Eating You Folks!? Posted by: Asses of Evil
» RE: What Is Eating You Folks!? Posted by: YogiBear
Thank you Van
Posted by: Lauren on May 5, 2006 1:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your discription of the people, their hope and enthusiam was so beautiful that it made me cry to read it.

I think that they know about something, the plan for the future that a lot of the readers here dont quite savvy.

I am so glad you joined the march and told us about it. Wonderful. Thank you.

Today is the one year anniversy of World Religious Freedom Day, 555. We aren't free yet, but we are getting closer.

Today I'd like to offer the view of a respected old Indian man as reported by Ohiyesa in 'The Wisdom of the Native Americans'. (Ohiyesa was born in 1858. His father recognizing the need for Indians to learn about the white man sent him off to white schools saying, "it is the same as if I sent you on your first warpath. I shall expect you to conquer.) Here are the man's words about christianity,

"I have come to the conclusion Jesus was an Indian. He was opposed to material acquisition and to great possessions. He was inclined to peace. He was as unpractical as any Indian and set no price upon his labor of love. These are not the principals upon which the white man has founded his civilization. It is strange that he could not rise to these simple principles which were so commonly observed amoung our people."

Native American religion is a buried gem that has been cast away. I found it, I encourage others to take up the search. It is well worthwhile to become a hunter or a warrior.

I checked Borders again, I am very grieved that they are still discriminating against Native American religions by excluding them from the religion section, keeping us in history.

Perhaps their problem is determining what is history and what is religion, you can not really seperate the two because with real Indians, everything is religion. Lot's of people have a really hard time understanding that so they say the religion doesn't really exist.

They should actully move the whole Native American studies section over to the religion section. That would be the right thing to do to honor the Native American religions. It would also be kind of a relief to distance ourselves from the other American history.

Excluding us is of course simple religious discrimination against Indians, not unlike the immigration/language discrimination these same people get at the other borders. It is time for a statue of liberty to face south.

Native American religion is so simple and so beautiful, and like nature it's all around us. It is really powerful too, you'll see. Peace.

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African-Americans vs Illegal Immigrant
Posted by: YANIRA06_66 on May 5, 2006 2:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I want to clear up the nonsense that the Civil Rights fight of African-Americans are the same fight of Illegal Immigrants.

There was never any doubt that African-Americans were U.S. citizens. The problem was African-Americans were treated as "Second Class" citizens in all aspects of American life.

On the other hand, Illegal Immigrants ARE NOT U.S. citizens and only have to arrive in-country vis-a-vis the Immigration process to enjoy most rights of U.S. citizens. In fact, most Hispanic/Latinos are classified by the U.S. government as "White" and that in itself is a plus.

Unfortunately, there are those that entered the country illegally and now choose to demonstrate for U.S. citizen rights. That is a no-no!

The House of Representative got it right and the Senate is lagging behind the sentiments of the majority of Americans. The First Priority is protecting U.S. citizens and that means securing the borders. Let's call "illegal" exactly what it infers - a crime, and don't pretend illegal immigrants don't know what they must do to satisfied legal requirements to remain in the U.S.

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» Protect me from what? Posted by: ezilla
A forum for Personal Accounts of Harm
Posted by: ezilla on May 5, 2006 2:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This was my response to the previous post which stated: "The First Priority is protecting U.S. citizens and that means securing the borders."

While I disagree that I need "protection" from immigrants and believe that there is a difference between "illegal" and "harmful". I would, like to open up a forum for PERSONAL, not theoretical, accounts of how an illegal immigrants have "harmed" the good, law-abiding citizens of the United States.

Have we any takers?

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» Just Curious Posted by: Baranga
Frankly speaking...
Posted by: fafnir on May 5, 2006 5:08 PM   
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I was put-off by the May 1st protests sponsored by the corporate open-border lobby. In my view, the protests were an attempt to extort the privileges of American citizenship for illegal aliens on their terms, irrespective of process or sovereignty.

Moreover, I am deeply offended by the illegal alien movement’s sense of entitlement to claim the legacy of the black civil rights movement.

The movement was a struggle for existence, human dignity and the fulfillment of freedom’s justice denied to an oppressed citizenry; it is not a doormat for circumvention of American immigration laws.

Dishonestly framing the illegal alien movement as "immigrants rights" or “civil rights” doesn't make the cause just or the struggle righteous.

Ultimately, the US cannot continue legalizing millions of illegals every few years. The US job market does not have limitless capacity to absorb millions of foreign workers when US citizens do not enjoy near-full employment.

Why would the US add 11 to 20 million more workers to the working-class job market (construction, hospitality, and retail) that has 10-percent unemployment among natives (18-64) who compete for work in that market?

It doesn’t make sense.

Black young men suffer 37-percent unemployment in the same job market, where they face discrimination based on stereotypical social pathologies. Steven Camarota, Center for Immigration Studies Research Director, commented recently on C-SPAN that “When the mics are turned off, employers will tell you that they’d rather hire illegals than hire blacks.” Although this discriminatory practice predates contemporary competition with legal and illegal immigrants, an influx of 11 to 20 million needless workers perpetuates this historical barrier to opportunity, the further erosion of wages, and the expansion of poverty.

A righteous cause -- and a real solution -- would be for the citizens of Mexico to advocate solidarity with American workers in a shared struggle to fight corporate “free” trade and the corrupt Mexican oligarchs who enrich themselves and impoverish their country.

The outstanding organizing and media prowess demonstrated by the open-border lobby could be harnessed to exert pressure on the Mexican government to serve the interests of its citizens, and not on Americans who owe the illegals nothing.

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¡Feliz Cinco de Mayo cada uno!
Posted by: Longdream on May 6, 2006 6:56 PM   
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A la salud nuestros amigos mexicanos, dondequiera que vivan.

¡Viva Mexico!

*levanta el cristal*

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Bottom Line
Posted by: doremi on May 6, 2006 10:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ir de nuevo a México

It's wrong to reward or expect a reward for illegal behavior.

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» RE: Bottom Line Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Bottom Line Posted by: doremi
» RE: Bottom Line Posted by: rg
» RE: Bottom Line Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Bottom Line Posted by: doremi
» RE: Bottom Line Posted by: Longdream
Y'all just don't understand economics, see?
Posted by: kmeyer on May 7, 2006 12:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The debate about immigration is so hypocritical. People complain about them on the one hand, but they like to get fresh produce for a buck. They like having their house painted for cheap, or their houses cleaned. Whether or not undocs cost federal and local treasuries money (which is very debatable, since many pay in with forged docs but receive no services), they lower the cost of living. Capitalism demands cheap labor, so as long as it is available, even if illicit, it will be found. We can build all the walls we want but competition mixed with self-interest will circumvent them.

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On being black, red, green and gold...
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on May 7, 2006 7:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you actually look closely at any two individuals you will always find a slight difference in skin color - unless you are talking to identical twins.

Nevertheless, the social identities remain, and a lot of the 'differences' are just due to fear of the other. Nice that the author of this piece was able to go beyond that and show a little support.

At the end of the day, the color of our blood is more important then the color of our skin. America is the home of the mutt - and if you've ever spent much time with dogs, you'll know a simple truth: mutts are smarter. And dog breeders are fascists.

Looking at the above comments I see that 'racial' issues are still highly emotional. Now consider: would Rove & Bush rather have a 2006 election on race and immigration, or would they rather have an election on domestic spying and Iraqi bloodbaths? Don't be distracted.

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as a general retort to the overclass wannabes/pseudoliberals here
Posted by: cry0fan on May 7, 2006 5:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I give you the writings of Brad Carson, former Dem congressman:
from www.realclearpolitics.com
excerpts below:


May 02, 2006
Democrats Must Fight Illegal Immigration
By Brad Carson


A few years ago, I was invited to attend a dinner party in Washington, D.C. Present at the dinner were several prominent journalists, think-tank heads, and politicians, including one who is likely to run for President of the United States in 2008. Not surprisingly, given the policy orientation of the dinner guests, the conversation quickly turned to the pressing matters of the day, specifically globalization's contribution to rising economic inequality. Largely liberal, the dinner guests all expressed grave concern over the growing gap between rich and poor in the nation. But few offered any real solutions.

Rather than debate possible reforms, everyone at the dinner party uttered the familiar globalization litany. The integration of markets is irresistible, all averred. Nothing can be done to shape, much less forestall, globalization; the only debate is about what palliative policies should be enacted. For the Democrats present that night, education was the critical policy response to globalization. With better education and opportunities for retraining, young people can avoid the nitty-gritty of the tradable sector and make their careers in high value-added, nontradable services. Older workers displaced by globalization can find entirely new careers. Or so it was argued. Over the last fifteen years, this argument has been made repeatedly, and education-as-panacea has become axiomatic for Democrats.


Reflecting on that evening, I was struck by the fact that no one at the party brought up illegal immigration, which is of course one form of globalization, and its lamentable effect on income distribution. After all, most economists - even redoubtable liberals like Paul Krugman -- have concluded that the vast increase in low-skilled immigration over the last forty years has depressed the wages of low-skilled citizens. There is some debate about the magnitude of immigration's effects on the labor market, but not much about the direction of that effect.

But then again, I really shouldn't have been so surprised, as nearly everyone at the party was part of what the writer Michael Lind calls the overclass, educated at the best universities and earning hundreds of thousands of dollars each year. Their children attended private schools. Everyone had a fine retirement package and subsidized health care, and each was immune to the vicissitudes of middle-class economic life. From their cloistered positions, the solution to nearly all perceived problems - from globalization to crime -- is education, which was their own personal visa into the merit-obsessed overclass. For this group of people, immigration is not about inequality in America, but instead all about a cheap nanny, inexpensive lawn care, or proof of multicultural bona fides. Even to bring up the subject of immigration is to seem impolite, if not crass.

...
continued below

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US Workers Need Bargaining Power, Alternet's Against That
Posted by: fairleft on May 7, 2006 8:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To start, though Alternet tries its hardest to push race into the debate, this issue has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the marchers or non-marchers, except unfortunately my anti-illegal immigration crowd needs to point out the obvious: the people most hurt by illegal immigrants are people without high school diplomas and young high school graduates. These people are much more likely to be brown or black than the US average. These are the folks the anti-illegal movement is fighting for: we're fighting to better their wages, benefits and working conditions by forcing their illegal competitors out, for me simply because these are our US sister and brother workers most in need. The change in supply in demand would have the obvious effect, as it always does, of forcing employers to offer better wages to those US workers. This is what the pro-illegal immigration movement is fighting _against_ and yet they call themselves the _left_!

In sum, just to get their interests off the ground US workers need bargaining power. With that they can unionize and negotiate better wages and conditions. You get bargaining power through good labor law (realistically not gonna happen) or labor shortages (could happen in real world if left joins right on immigration issue). Mass labor immigration willing to work for less in poor conditions with no benefits destroys American workers' bargaining power. End of the _real_ story.

When the 'left' like Alternet refuses to recognize the real conditions (including competition from illegal immigrants) that US workers live in, you know that's corporate money talking not the left. This whole pseudo-movement just reminds me that the left doesn't actually exist in this country, or that it only exists when the issue is convenient for the money people.

The people protesting illegal immigration that takes jobs away from the working poor are the place to look for a beginning of a real left, they certainly have their hearts in the right place, but the 'official left' blanket condemns them (whatever their ethnicity) as redneck racists. The 'Alternet left' is snobbishly disgusted by the people who would be the heart of a real left in this country.

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» AMNESTY FOR AMERICANS FIRST Posted by: doremi
Don't Get it Twisted!
Posted by: 1whoknows on May 9, 2006 7:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm for fairness and all that....but whether they contribute by working or not they are still illegal and undocumented workers. Immigration is handled pretty much the same in most every other country in the World. Why does America supposedly owe them anything for giving them the privilege and opportunity to work in this country in the first place? And as far as solidarity goes let it resound clearly that they want NONE with us blacks! They show resentment on a day to day basis for the hard won affluence and Political gains enjoyed today by blacks. They hate the fact that we are saturated in to the mainstream of America as far as Politics, Entertainment and Professional Merits go. They are sick and tired of seeing us in the forefront of everything from Sports to television and Arts and when i say sick I mean with a Sickness! Blacks need to stop being so accomodating to hispanics and start taking on a defensive stance. Both They and the Bush Republicans seek to disenfranchise Our Black Asses! Wake UP Blacks!

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I Never Thought I'd See The Day...
Posted by: doremi on May 9, 2006 6:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...when breaking federal law, forging identity papers, using fradulent social security numbers, driving without a license or insurance and using health, education & social services intended for others and just generally setting yourself above all others & the law would be a 'civil right'.

I guess only in the new corporate America.

But hey, what do I know, I'm just one of the slaves stuck with paying for it.

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I am illegal
Posted by: Mariat on May 10, 2006 12:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you for your sympathy and support. I was in the March in San Francisco also. And I was there not because a corporation told me to do that, I was there because I wanted to be there with my people, united together looking for hope and justice; to show the people of the US that we are not invisible anymore. To remember them that we are here, because looks like everybody forgot who we are.
I wish all the American citizens would have compassion and heart to understand our cause, like you, but is very very difficult to make people to understand. Why? Because they are not in our shoes. Simply as that.
It is very easy to say: “go home”, to say that we don’t deserve justice and legal residence, it is very easy to say that when you were born in this beautiful country, when your ancestors came here from Europe and you were very fortunate to be born here in this land of opportunities. It is easy to say that we don’t deserve rights, to say that we are criminals, when you are not from a poor third world country and have to be here illegally because your son or daughter has a congenital disease and you don’t have the money to pay for her treatment.
When you are not in the shoes of the illegal people in the US, it is very difficult to understand their position. It’s very difficult to understand when you are not “brown” like they call us. You need to read about us, to get informed to know that Mexican people can’t live here by the rules of the game, because they don’t let us play the game.
We have to come here illegally because the government does not give us visas to come here legally.
For Mexicans is very very difficult if not imposible to get a visa to come here legally. We have to be a celebrity, a sports star; the government want us to be high educated people speaking 100% English . Of course if I have all those requirements, I wouldn’t work in the hotels or in restaurants.
We are here because there are jobs for us, because people hire us, because US need us.
That’s why we are here, if there is no work to do, we would not be here.
I don’t understand why people hate us, if they go to eat out at the restaurants where we work, they go shopping where we are behind doors working so hard. They will find clean toilets is because we are working day and night to keep them clean.
American citizens send their grandparents to residences where we clean them, we take care of them, we are their friends in that place where nobody offer them an smile, a hand, a kiss. We do that for all of you, American Citizens.
We don’t want to take your jobs, you just don’t want to do it because is hard work, is dangerous work.
We don’t want amnesty , we just want a law that , people like me, who is hard worker, who doesn’t have criminal record, pay taxes, contribute to the economy, who speaks, write and read English, and have been for long time here; can have legalization . Of course, that we have to pay fines because we broke the law like all of you say, we can do that, why don’t have a reform to the immigration laws?

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» RE: I am illegal Posted by: mdf1960
» RE: I am illegal Posted by: Longdream
» Dance Of The Sock Puppets Posted by: doremi
» Captain Privilege rides again! Posted by: Michelle
» RE: I am illegal Posted by: YANIRA06_66
» RE: I am illegal Posted by: Mariat
Spoken Like A Dumbass White Kid
Posted by: Longdream on May 11, 2006 5:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
who never commits the crime of thinking while writing.

Yes and for every 'Maria' ......blatherblatherdribbledrool ....American Way to the American Dream oooh look at my ending it's so forceful and full of ennui......


Anytime precious John or sweet little Mary want to pack meat, pick crops, work the killing floor, work the cannery, wash dishes, carry bricks or clean houses, I'm sure there's an American employer who will oblige. Fifteen minutes for lunch, no breaks.

America-for-Americans are fond of saying it's a myth that undocumented workers do jobs that Americans don't want, but those are the jobs they do. And those are the jobs they keep doing, year after year. No raises, no internships, no education allowance, no promotions, no future, no nothing.

Is this what we want for our African-American youth? Is this what an African-American family strives for?

Last time YOU checked, need wasn't an excuse to break the law? So what is an excuse to break the law? Smoking a little dope, maybe? Everybody knows that law is ridiculous, and smoking doesn't hurt anybody. Speeding? Everybody does it. Driving after you've had a few? Yeah, we know. You have control of the car at all times.

You little hypocrite. You throw around words and ideas without a single molecule of insight as to what the hell you're saying. My guess--you still live off your mama.

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Either of you...
Posted by: doremi on May 12, 2006 1:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...jerkoffs do any real work lately? If you're so hot on making this happen how about giving up YOUR place at the pig trough and getting the hell outta here? You're big on talk but I'll bet you're both too overfed & lazy to walk the walk. Noooo, you're the ones happy to sit on your fat asses and tell everyone else how it should be and what they should do.

You hypocritical morons.

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» RE:Either of you... Posted by: Longdream
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