Home
Archive
Columnists
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Register to Vote: Rock the Vote, powered by Working Assets Wireless
Advertisement
  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Say Yes to Citizenship, No to Guest Workers

By Roberto Lovato, New America Media. Posted May 1, 2006.


Some Latino leaders feel today's immigrant rights boycott is too extreme, but they may have forgotten the extreme conditions of immigrant guest workers across the country.

Share and save this post:
Digg iconDelicious iconReddit iconFark iconYahoo! iconNewsvine! iconFacebook iconNewsTrust icon

Also in Top Stories

Sleeping Around Craigslist
Anna Reed, Lily Penza, East Bay Express

Bush's Secret Army of Snoops and Snitches
Matthew Rothschild, The Progressive

Michael Pollan on What's Wrong with Environmentalism
Kate Cheney Davidson, Yale Environment 360

A Peak Oil Prophet Imagines Life in America After Wal-Mart
Michelle Nijhuis, Grist.org

Sci-Fi Heroes Take on the System
Roya Rastegar, ColorLines

Billionaires Are Gouging Your Grandparents
Brave New Films, Brave New Films

Online Activists Keep the Pressure on Obama
Ari Melber, TheNation.com

More stories by Roberto Lovato

Get AlterNet in
your mailbox!

 
Advertisement

If anyone has everything to lose by participating in the May 1 boycott called by some immigrants' rights activists, it's Jesus Nunez Vela. Despite the risk of losing his job as an agricultural worker on a farm in North Carolina, the 57-year-old "guest worker" is not going to work on Monday and will instead hop on a bus headed to a march against punitive immigration proposals in Washington, D.C.

I met Vela as he was getting off another bus -- for the 15th time -- in rural Vass, N.C. He had just finished an 18-hour ride from Nayarit, Mexico, when I met him in the offices of the North Carolina Growers Association (NCGA). Vela has, since 1991, come to the United States as a temporary guest worker to pick tomatoes, yams and the most painful crop, tobacco, which forces workers to bend over for more than 10 hours a day in fields filled with pesticides. After the harvest ends, Vela returns to his home in Durango, Mexico. Though he is grateful to be making more than the 50 pesos (approximately $5) per day he made back home, he does not recommend the life of the H-2, or "guest worker," to anyone.

"I've been temporary for more than 15 years and I'd like it to stop," says Vela. "I'm doing this because I have a wife and four kids who depend on me. They (the U.S. government and politicos) keep us under the ilusion that we will one day get our papers." As he says this he sits and waits to get processed in the NCGA office before reporting once again to his employer on the farm.

Vela's situation reminds me of my cousins from El Salvador who have toiled under the tyranny of temporary status as maids and housekeepers in cities like San Francisco. When I think about my cousin Maria, who had not seen her now-mustachioed son since he was 3 years old, I have a hard time understanding how we can afford not to boycott.

Under the little used H-2 program (only about 120,000 Mexican workers are covered in the entire country), Vela and other workers are allowed to enter the United States to work for a specific employer, and must leave soon after the picking season ends each year. He and boycott organizers are marching, stopping work and organizing other activities to discourage President Bush and Congress from extending such temporary programs to the more than 12 million undocumented rural and urban workers. He and all immigrants rights advocates want a path to citizenship as a solution to the plight of the undocumented like Vela who have worked in the United States for years. "I'm going to Washington to remind them we're still waiting," he says.

But not all immigrants rights advocates agree with Vela and boycott organizers about stopping work or student walkouts called for this Monday. Critics like some of my friends at the National Council of La Raza (NCLR) National Capital Immigration Coalition and other nonprofit immigrants rights advocates believe that the risks to immigrant workers are "too high," that such measures as work stoppages and school walkouts are "too extreme." I don't agree.

After spending time in the labor camps with Jesus and other workers organized by the Farm Labor Organizing Committee (FLOC), and after more than eight years of heading up an immigrants rights organization, I think that the treatment of Vela and other undocumented and temporary workers is "too extreme." I think that the perpetual fear sowed by Immigration and Customs enforcement raids like those conducted recently are "too extreme."

In search of a good answer for those who fear or don't support a boycott, I asked FLOC's leader Baldemar Velasquez, who is a visionary leader on par with Cesar Chavez, whom he knew well and worked with, how and why FLOC is mobilizing five busloads of undocumented and temporary farm workers. In response, he shared what was told to him by Martin Luther King Jr. during the Poor People's Campaign in 1967. "When you impact the rich man's ability to make money, anything is negotiable," he says.

Such a perspective is lacking among too many Latino politicos, "community leaders" and media representatives. After yelling, "We support immigrants rights -- but don't boycott," many of these same "leaders" will be toasting "Hispanic heritage" at tequila-shooting, taquito-stuffed, popular and posh Cinco de Mayo celebrations in Washington and across the country. Meanwhile Jesus Vela will be returning to the tobacco fields to start another cycle of temporary work.

Digg!

Roberto Lovato is a Los Angeles-based writer.

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from AlterNet! Sign up now »


Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
Bravo!
Posted by: nbrown on May 1, 2006 12:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alternet finally gets it right! Sticking up for human rights, no wishy-washy politics. Just plain, simple human rights.

Great story. BUY NOTHING TODAY!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Bravo! Posted by: rinpochet
I say NO to immigrants getting a free pass
Posted by: thinkverybig on May 1, 2006 1:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I really don't fault the immigrants.... I fault the U.S. and Mexican governments for allowing this to escalate and do nothing. All because of GREED and Corruption.

If you're hear illegally, you don't deserve a chance of citizenship. Why put those ahead of the one's who came here legally. Immigrants.... protest your own government. You're only making regular American citizens ANGRY.

I would like to see All Americans stand up and protest our elected and corrupted leaders to make a change in our country. No more private campaigns, No more lobbyists bribing our officials, No more corporations getting tax breaks while the common people suffer etc. It's time for a change. It's time for a REVOLUTION.


Coming soon.... "WeMustChange.org"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

A strike at the very least
Posted by: l3ilani on May 1, 2006 4:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Currently I live in Australia, but originally I am from Compton, California. I return to America often for visits and I am always surprised at the "invisible class". In my opinion Latin Americans keep the US functioning. The park your cars, mow your grass, cook your food and tend your families. Thier work is essential to the functioning of the country. So lets reconise this. Lets thank them. Lets all strike, walk out or at least the next time water arrives at your table, stop your conversation look up and say THANK YOU.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: A strike at the very least Posted by: VisionQuest
» I thought Australia... Posted by: Kelly
I say YES to all immigrants in this country
Posted by: AmeriPole on May 1, 2006 4:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This country is made by immigrants. We need to reform the immigration system and legalize people that have lived here for years, paid taxes, owned properties and worked hard for every dollar they have.

Today is great opportunity to say YES! Join the marches to push the Government to do the right thing.

See you around.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The Overclass has one primary goal--continuing to flood the labor supply with illegal scab labor
Posted by: cry0fan on May 1, 2006 5:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
this is why wages for low end jobs are what they were 10 years ago. This is how the overclass buys their SUVs and second homes. Beware the overclass manipulations through the pseudoPopulist rightwing talk radio and through the PseudoLeft alternative media.

The PseudoPopulist Right diverts attention from the economic aspects of mass immigration by focusing attention on cultural aspects of mass immigration of illegal scab labor. They talk about how they are invading our country. This is aimed at rural and suburban whites who tend to vote GOP.

The PseudoLeft pushes the "you are a racist if you oppose mass immigration" button. This is aimed at urban whites who tend to vote Democrat.

Both are distractors. Focus on how this mass immigration is driving down wages by flooding the labor supply market.

Notice how PseudoLeft media outlet like alternet, DKOS, DU, Mother Jones, Salon, Slate, etc NEVER make the labor supply and demand aspect a primary focus of all these articles they are writing about.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Hello to the American of the future!
Posted by: JPHickey on May 1, 2006 5:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And goodbye to the American way of life for America's workers!

I just wonder what will happen to the American working class as they are being supplanted by an invasion of foreign non-citizens. Working people with a rapidly sinking standard of living won't even be able to afford to hire illegal aliens to take care of garden chores.

American workers lack of backbone astonishes me, as they've focused on getting by with little or no representation. Now even the educated middle class may be noticing that their jobs are being outsourced to India, but they have almost no representation.

The illegal alien invasion is just part of the bigger picture. The United States has passed its prime!

Now, just suppose that peak oil is part of this "perfect storm", the days of cheap oil are already past, and an world-wide economic decline ensuse, we'll all be learning how to make do with less.

The competiton for survival at the bottom will become quite intense, even if mere home-owners tighten their belts and cut down on hiring illegal alien gardeners.

Lack of vision is the name of this game! Have we all become so complacent that we just suppose that this time it will be different, that the laws of economics no longer apply. Perhaps this country is a nation in denial, despite the fact that the handwriting is on the wall!

Like I've pointed out, what will happen to these illegals even if they get the rights they demand, when this country cannot afford their services, not to mention the services of our own poor, working, and middle classes. Indeed, have a nice day! Just remember, this too shall pass.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

MR
Posted by: derfb1 on May 1, 2006 6:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My wife and I are gong to the grocery store today and stock up. We are filling up both cars with gasoline. And we are going to a fancy eating establishment tonight.

The so called "Guest Workers" are not our guests. They broke the law to get here. So spend today everyone--spend!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

hmmmm
Posted by: janakiblum on May 1, 2006 6:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is instructive to hear people, whose immigrant forebears had no qualms about displacing and pauperising the existing native American population, and later taking "rightful" precedence over US-born Blacks, vilifying other immigrants.

Another question: If history (as reported in the Bible) is used to support immigration to Israel, then don't Mexicans, at least, have some claim to immigrate to lands that were once Mexico (California, Texas etc.?).

Are only citizens of the USA worth treating well? Have others, by dint of not being "USAans" forfeited a right to humanity, as if the USA is the alpha & omega of civilization?

The so-called "laws of economics" are man made. It is not pure supply and demand that applies, but also the ideolody of those manipulating these laws. There is no "imperative" to outsource or to import cheap labor, it is more a case of those manipulators trying to make a bigger fast buck than before. A short-sighted cultural ideology that says that there should be no limit on the money one person can make, also helps.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: hmmmm Posted by: dlf
» Welcome to Amway Posted by: Kelly
» RE: hmmmm Posted by: JPHickey
» RE: hmmmm Posted by: rinpochet
» RE: hmmmm Posted by: VisionQuest
» RE: hmmmm Posted by: doremi
» RE: hmmmm Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: hmmmm Posted by: VisionQuest
» RE: hmmmm Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: hmmmm Posted by: VisionQuest
Citizen
Posted by: Troymaples on May 1, 2006 6:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jesus Vela is like most illegal immigrants, they think the world revolves around their wants. If the illegal Mexicans in the U. S. would band together in their home country and demand their share of the Mexican national wealth then they would not even have to think about having to come here and put such a burden on the U.S. Their costs to our country far out weigh their contribution especially when you factor in the lowering of the base wage rate caused by them. This hurts every U.S. citizen's wages tremendously.

Mexico is not a third world country. There is plenty of wealth there to provide a good life for all of their citizens, but the extremely corrupt Fox government keeps them in poverty. Mexicans need to fight for their rights at home and quit breaking our laws.

Troy Maples

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Citizen Posted by: LaSirena
» RE: Citizen Posted by: doremi
» RE: Citizen Posted by: Ratskii
EXACTLY! US needs citizens. NO to corporate "guest" workers.
Posted by: jreinhart1 on May 1, 2006 7:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have believed this since Carter couldn't figure out what to do. All people that work in the US should have all the rights and privileges that are afforded to us being a citizen. I see no reason why areas similar to Ellis Island could not be opened up and fully staffed along our border. The US needs citizens, not guest workers! The immigrants that came to this country were not "guest" workers one hundred years or more ago. We should not have "guest" workers now.

The real "bad" guys in all of this are corporations that don't what to have to abide by any of the laws in order to increase profits at the expense of converting the working conditions of country to that of a third world nation. The emloyers are more often than not, unconsionable in their act to migrant workers.

The value of what immigrant workers perform is worth more than how they are treated, especially if they get hurt on the job or women carrying the next generation of Americans.

We Americans have enjoyed under valued products from sweat shops and migrant farm workers for too long. The price of food would go up, but then, so should the minimum wage. This would be the largest infusion of money into local economies creating jobs for small business owners that we have seen for years. Small Business would get a shot in the arm as many of the people that are new citizens are natural entreprenuers. As a collective, they might even have the grassroots power to force congress into killing legislation that is passed without a thought or a clue, that protects big business against any competiton from agressive small and mid sized businesses that are more in tune to what people want, rather than what the people are told they should want.

This is a good start but a plan needs to be made for immigration, such as fully staffed and funded immigration facilities. The plan must also be executed well to make sure the process goes smoothly. It is obvious that the US needs workers. It is an important point that the new workers become citizens.

Good article!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Once again, you're ignorant
Posted by: geming on May 1, 2006 7:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am so sick of reading this xenophobic, ignorant bullshit on Alternet like the asshole who thinks illegal immigrants (and no person is illegal jerk) don't "deserve to be here".

Let's do some U.S. history 101--you're legal ass who "deserves" to be here, is here after our "forefather" literally stole this land from not only "Native Americans" but a third of the land which BELONGED TO MEXICO. It's ironic.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Once again, you're ignorant Posted by: rinpochet
» RE: Once again, you're ignorant Posted by: rinpochet
White Computeristas Outta Get Out More
Posted by: StuartH on May 1, 2006 8:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When people say that illegal immigrants are breaking laws and vengeance of some sort should be wreaked upon them,
this is a very short-sighted view by people who no doubt have not ever gone the least bit out of their way to find out what is really going on.

Look, these people didn't just pop into existence at the border.
What causes this situation is partly at least under the control of Congress and the President, and to a major degree is under the control of the banks and multinational corporations.
The person walking north through all kinds of hazards is the person with the least control.

If people really want to see the flood of immigration slow, they ought to look at the true control points.

Your hamburger was probably a product of farmland taken away from peasant subsistence farmers, who can't complain lest they and their families suffer various forms of reprisal.

Your cheap bananas are the same way.

It may seem too easy, but trying to buy Fair Trade coffee and other products actually is a step in the right direction. This is because the large coffee corporations pay the lowest price to the farmer. Fair Trade buying was set up to pay a higher price deliberately so that farmers could stay in business and not have to leave their communities.

There is a "supply side" to the motivation of those leaving, if the "demand side" can be said to be the wages in the US people are attracted to.

If we look at the history of US government involvement in using the military to support corporate interests south of the border, we see a lot of destructive interference. We have overthrown governments and created a climate in which the US is pretty well hated.

What we ought to do is consider this a teaching moment and really look at the whole bowl of spaghetti.

Congress ought to to retool NAFTA and the other agreements to include labor protections and other measures that would help alleviate the stress caused by ignoring those concerns.

Americans concerned about immigration should put their money where there mouth is and buy Fair Trade.

The President and Congress ought to work together to look at the business practices of corporations and banks in order to influence the situation in favor of the peasants of Latin and South America instead of the oligarchies.

Wake up people. You are being provoked and antagonized on purpose to focus on scapegoating the "illegals" instead of on the people who are the source of the problem. You are being manipulated and appear to be liking it because it appeals to the Eurocentric racism inherent in this issue.

Think about it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Rev.
Posted by: Jerry on May 1, 2006 8:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Si, se puede!" I wish to inform the world that Immigrants in Mississippi have stood up and been counted. April 10 over 700 Latino immigrants marched for justice. On April 12 another rally was held at the state capitol in Jackson, over 500 were there. The Mississippi immigrant Rights Alliance (MIRA) sponsored these. Today, in Laurel MS, home of Sanderson Farms, a march for justice will take place. We have over 100,000 immigrants in MS. Further "The people united cannot be divided!" MIRA is a union of African American and Latino and other groups. The black-brown and white coalition is united with one voice. "We demand fair immigration policy!"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: ev. Posted by: rinpochet
If You Don't Like Our Laws
Posted by: NoPCZone on May 1, 2006 8:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Go Home.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: If You Don't Like Our Laws Posted by: zap2scott
» RE: If You Don't Like Our Laws Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: If You Don't Like Our Laws Posted by: zap2scott
Go Home Yourself
Posted by: StuartH on May 1, 2006 9:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who do you think you are addressing? Do you
think people who work as hard as the people
under discussion here work have computers or
the time to fool around discussing the issue with
people who won't look at their own complicity in
the exploitation system that more or less forces
people out of their own communities to come to
the US to struggle for existence?

How nice to have such a luxury without paying
for it even at the price of thinking about it.

"If you don't like our laws..."

Reality for peasants is about the two faces of
the law. One says, "there is a process and the
law abiding must follow it." The other says,
you have no choice if you want to live with any
dignity. You must submit to unbelievable
humiliation and survive a lot of hostility and
walk hundreds of miles. Then you will reap the
true reward of being exploited by Republicans
who talk against immigration but really want
your cheap labor. You will be victimized by
all sorts of racists, but this is the job. For
this you will be paid in survival and insecurity
for the rest of your life. Come hither and be
seduced."

There's the rules and there's the real rules.

About time we learned to look at how the
real rules work and stand up to the big money
interests instead of looking to punish the
victim. That is oh, so easy. Sit in your chair
and type thoughtlessly into your keyboard.

Go Home Yourself. Your ancestors most
likely had to survive some sort of terrible
ordeal as well, and it most likely involved
some illegality. Now it can be forgotten
because centuries and oceans are behind
us all, but the closer you look, the more
there are similarities.

Justice involves looking at the whole picture
and having the moral courage to look at
the powers-that-be and their hypocrisy and
holding them accountable as the true cause
and the true "illegals."

Until people start doing that, nothing will
change. This whole situation is the result
of willful ignorance and purposely keeping
the old blinders on.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Go Home Yourself Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: Go Home Yourself Posted by: AmeriPole
10 million new registered democrats, whoopee!
Posted by: gerdhansel on May 1, 2006 10:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I get it. Ten million new registered Democrats instead of ten million guest workers.

That should tip the scales in swing states like Nevada come 2008. Might as well come right out and say, "We want Hillary" and show your true colors.

Then all you need to do is treat Hispanics condescendingly, like you already treat blacks. Who else are they gonna vote for, the Republicans? Sorry Pedro. Bush, he no like you. We may not respect you, but don't worry, the mommy state will take care of you.

And did I mention this would make it easier to start unions in corporations like WalMart and Target? Pad the union rolls too.

Of course once these immigrants are legal, the corporations won't want them anymore. Can't treat you like slaves, don't apply here. Oh, well there's plenty more illegals where you came from. Right Vicente Fox?

So the new "citizens" will join the ranks of blacks and poor white trash who've already lost their jobs to the untermensch slave labor force.

Ideal voting base for the Democrats. Great politics.

How very kind (and clever) of you.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I am also sick of hearing people complain about immigrants
Posted by: rclord on May 1, 2006 11:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To these folks: I would love to know if you've ever cleaned people's house and picked fruit and vegetables. I wouldn't be surprised if you're more well-to-do than that. These immigrants do all these things and lots of other "menial" tasks for wages you would never work for. What would you do if they stopped?

Also, who do you think HIRES illegal immigrants? Big corporations look for cheap labor, and rich people in affluent neighborhoods looking for domestic help. If you're really worried about union-busting and wages being lowered, why don't you ever bitch at them?? They're responsible for the illegal immigrants being here.

Face it, the illegal immigrants are not to be blamed for this situation. They're only here because they need to make a living. Many of them don't even like working in the United States. They are protesting today because they've seen how native-born American workers get health benefits, etc., and they want to be legal and thus treated the same. They don't want to be exploited.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Wasn't the 1986 Amnesty S'pozed to Be The Last?
Posted by: fairleft on May 1, 2006 11:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's what America was promised. 1 million illegals (it turned out to be 3 million) got amnestied then 'never again' the politicians cried.

Now the 12 million (it will turn out to be 20-30 million) gonna get amnestied, and there are NO promises this is the last time. It's just the beginning of the race-to-the-bottomization of the USA.

Stand with America's working poor, enforce employer sanctions, and get the union-buster wage-busters back across the border.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Nothing will change...
Posted by: alterhead on May 1, 2006 2:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...this has been going on for 100 years. Nothing will change AS LONG AS EMPLOYERS FEL NO PAIN. Fine employers of illigals...second fine, prison. That's THE ONLY WAY this will change.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Nothing will change... Posted by: Ratskii
All people that work in the US should have all the rights & privileges that are afforded US citizens
Posted by: stuck on May 1, 2006 3:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This quote from one of the posts above was the most intelligent thing I've read on this thread: "All people that work in the US should have all the rights and privileges that are afforded to us being a citizen." I am 100% on the side of humane treatment of all immigrants, legal and "illegal", being a second-generation half-Mexican, half-Polish gal myself, but we all need to wake up and understand that the "guest worker" program as proposed by Bush is not the answer.

This list from People's Weekly World sums the issue up quite nicely. Here's an excerpt:

"If a guest worker program is going to be imposed here are things to fight for:

• All guest workers must have easy access to permanent legal residency, which must not depend on the goodwill of the employer.

• Guest worker visas must be transferable from one job to another with a reasonable time leeway. Guest workers must be eligible for unemployment and workers’ compensation and pay into Social Security and Medicare.

• All guest workers must have the right to bring their families with them, or to start families here, and to participate in community life without restriction or discrimination.

• Housing, health and education programs for guest workers must be paid for by employers.

• Guest workers and their families must be allowed to move freely back and forth between the country of origin and the U.S., without restrictions.

• U.S. labor law must be applicable to guest workers, with compliance monitoring. Guest workers must have access to all legal remedies against employers that are available to other workers.

• U.S. unions must have full and confidential access to all guest workers, from before the worker leaves the country of origin. As many as possible should come through union hiring halls.

• Employers seeking to hire guest workers must advertise the jobs for U.S. workers at wage or salary levels that correspond to “prevailing wage.” Simultaneously the minimum wage must be raised, especially in agriculture.

• No employer with an active labor dispute, or with a poor record on labor relations and labor law compliance, should be allowed to participate in any guest worker program.

• All civil rights should be guaranteed to guest workers, e.g. laws preventing racial profiling and discrimination in accommodations, etc.

• Guest workers should have full recourse to the courts, and not just the immigration courts, for matters dealing with their status in the country and their situation at work and in the community.

Business will say that all this would undermine the whole point of such programs by giving guest workers the same rights as other workers. But they told us that the reason they want guest workers is because they can’t find U.S. workers to do the jobs, not that they needed workers with fewer rights! Which is it? "

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Bravo Posted by: Ratskii
progressssssssive:
Posted by: deboer on May 1, 2006 5:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It would seem the only possible thing that needs to be done is establish Ellis Island like registration stations in all corners of America so everyone can register and be run through a sensible process with lots of questions. Some would not qualify so will be sent home, and the rest can work toward citizenship like every other immigrant from every other country.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Some Questions
Posted by: Ratskii on May 1, 2006 8:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think this debate needs more facts. I'm not extremely good at net surfing yet so I welcome suggestions as to where to get them. The information that might help to resolve some of the discord is:

1) What is the estimated illegal immigration per year and how many per year return or are deported?
2) What estimates are available as to the cost and efficiency of a concerted roundup of undocumented workers.
3) Depending on the answer to #2, what would be the effect on the economy of doing so and how much do they pay in taxes and soc. sec.?
4) What would be the cost of a 700 mile (or 2000 mile) fence along our southern border with Mexico.
5) Are there any estimates as to the efficency of such a fence?
6) Has anyone ever polled the House or Senate to find out how many of our representatives would be willing to vote for a law with criminal sanctions against employers of illegals -- that is a law the was structured in such a way that it would actually be enforced?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» # 6 was on www.numbersusa.com Posted by: plantland
Weapons of Mass Distraction
Posted by: jolo on May 2, 2006 9:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is amazing how the Corporate/Political manipulates people to be blinded to the truth. So many times those who are exploited blame the others who are being exploited as the richest and most powerful successfully distract people from seeing who the true enemy is.
This is in summation:

The Mexican illegal aliens, and the American workers who are pissed off at the illegal alients are both victims and are being expoited by the same people and institutions..

THINK !! Who benefits by the the fact that Mexican citizens live in a country where the majority cannot earn a living wage and the government does nothing to provide basic services for them? Those in the United States must realize if the situations were reversed, we would do anything to cross the borders as well.

Anyone who thinks that superior humans, because we are born in the U.S. and blames the illegals for their plight are ignorant and pushovers from the propaganda that is being thrown at them from the Corporate owned media and Corporate bought Politicians THINK, why could it possiblyh be good for U.S. citizens to stay ignorant and not question authority

WHY is it that the totally corrupt government of Mexico, with it's leader, Vincente the Fox, NEVER gets brought into this ?? Why is it that SO many Mexicans stay poor, don't have economic opportunities, good educational systems, strong worker unions ? Who wants the Mexican masses to stay poor? Who does it benefit? As corrupt as the U.S. government is and is getting worse, the Mexican government is bought and sold, mostly by U.S. Corporate interests and by those who make millions in transporting of illegal drugs. Why doesn't the Mexican government do something to make the lives better for its citizens ?? It is not the people's fault, they have NO political or economic power.

The hiring of illegal aliens by dirty Companies, small and large, especially large like Wal Mart in the U.S. and those involved with NAFTA who make sure that Mexicans stay poor are the ones to blame in this.
Remember when Wal-Mart in San Diego got caught when they were exploited all those illegal aliens by paying them $1.60 per hour and shutting them inside of their store all night? The hiring of illegal aliens is a serious violation of human rights. And of course it reduces American wages and reduces job opportunies, allows Corporations to get away with nopt paying taxes, in the same way the horrific offshoring of American jobs does.

Yes, we need to close our border, BUT, it is not going to happen, because the lack of law enforcement is sponsored by Corporations and the corrupt politicians on both sides of the border who's interests they are paid to protect.
We need to work together with Mexicans to free ourselves from the influence of those who are exploiting both of us. We both need some of the political and economic power to make lives better American and Mexican workers. Through our vote (making sure it is fair), rid ourselves of BOTH the American and Mexican administration. Check out the politicians who are the prostitutes for the Corporate power brokers and VOTE THEM OUT !!.

The enemy is NOT the illegals and it is not the American workers who wages are lower, have basic government provied servies like a decent educational system and basic health care keeps worsoning.
Anyone on both sides of the globe who support NAFTA and CAFTA are enemies of Americans and Latins. NAFTA is the biggest reason that traffic has increased geometrically across the U.S. and American border. Guess what, those Corporate trucks are also bringing drugs into the U.S. as well.

Jon

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Mark
Posted by: mdf1960 on May 3, 2006 10:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's interesting that if a person from Central America comes to the U.S. and gets a job that pays more than he/she was making down there, the employer is villified because he/she isn't paying $80,000 a year with full benefits.

The left has long had a love/hate relationship with immigrants. On the one hand, immigrants tend to vote more liberal, but on the other hand more competition for certain jobs can make it more diificult to sustain above market union wages. Cesar Chavez was, at least at one time, as rabidly against illegal immigration as Pat Buchanan and the far right. We still see a lot of that attitude on the left. Strange bedfellows.

From the perspective of an illegal immigrant, why should he/she give a flying leap about an arbitrary political border? Most just want to improve their lives, not ruin anyone else's. Why do elements the left see the world as one worker pitted against another? Aren't we all in this together? Comments like "the immigrants should be sent back to their $1 an hour jobs in Mexico and they should petition President Fox" are pretty insensitive.

I say welcome anyone to this country who isn't planning on being on the welfare rolls.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]