COMMENTS: 184
The Down Side of Slashdot
April 12, 2006 |
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But is it dickish biology or dickish culture that creates a problem like Slashdot?
Among geeks, Slashdot has played the role of a New York Times-style news source for almost a decade -- it's the blog of record for techies, reporting and making "news for nerds." Everyone reads it, even if they sort of hate it or think it's stupid. So many people visit Slashdot that when its editors link to something, occasionally the servers hosting the referenced site go down or at least slow to a crawl -- this is known as the "Slashdot effect."
So, of course, any tech or science writer whose stuff goes on the Web (including yours truly) is at least a little bit invested in the idea of getting Slashdotted once in a while. It's sort of like being included in the Readings section of Harper's Magazine -- you automatically get a wider audience, and also the implicit approval of a venerable media institution.
Except if you're a woman. A few months ago, an article of mine was Slashdotted. But instead of resulting in a lively debate about technology and social justice, it instead produced a popular thread in the "comments" area about whether I was too fat to be considered attractive. At that point, I vowed to stop reading Slashdot. What the fuck? Why should I give a shit about those morons? I would read other geek culture blogs like BoingBoing, where the male editors are feminists and Xeni Jardin knows why it sucks that some creeps care more about her ass than the political op-ed she just wrote for the Los Angeles Times.
But, like I said, Slashdot is like the New York Times. No matter how infuriating and stupid its editorial policies, the site still breaks interesting news that everybody talks about. So I started peeking at my Slashdot feed again once in a while, then visiting the site, then actually poring over it daily as I used to do. Until my most recent Slashdotting, in which a guy linked to one of my more satirical columns and described me as a "gorgeous nerd" rather than a journalist or writer or columnist or even just plain "nerd."
You can imagine the comment threads that followed. Was I really gorgeous, or was I ugly? Wasn't it OK to evaluate my looks because my column wasn't really "professional," but rather "humorous"? (As if I haven't been writing this column seriously and professionally for six and a half goddamned years.) And, my favorite, wasn't it OK to talk about my looks because I write about sex? (This comment was followed by links to several articles I'd published about technology and sex, as if writing about vibrators somehow meant I was "asking for it.")
My friends said, "Ignore it." They said, "Those guys are morons." They said, "Let's just read and write things in other places where men aren't dicks."
Yet slowly I began to feel the same way about their comments that I feel when a right-winger tells me that if I want to promote socialism, I should just move to another country. The problem is, I love my country. It fucking rocks. And I love Slashdot too. I don't want to run away. This is my home, and I want to stay here and fight for justice. I want women to get excited by all the cool articles on Slashdot and not get driven away by a community that values them for their bodies instead of their thoughts.
So I went back and began rereading the comments on Slashdot about my article. At least half of them were written by outraged readers who asked why my looks were relevant. A woman had posted about how this kind of treatment was exactly why so few women are in the tech industry. It wasn't a solid wall of sexism -- there was a debate going on. And for every sexist dick, there was at least one feminist dick talking back to him. Even the guy who'd written the post sent me an e-mail apologizing for having used the word gorgeous, explaining that his English was really bad and he hadn't intended to inspire the kinds of comments he had.
I wasn't seeing biologically entrenched male domination at all. I was seeing a slow cultural evolution. The action on Slashdot is like a social version of that "missing link" fish with legs that some paleontologists just discovered. Maybe these guys don't have their gender equality land legs yet, but they've got the beginnings of feet growing inside their flippers.
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COMMENTS ( 184 )
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Comments are closed-
slashdot, or generally internet
Posted by: helix on Apr 12, 2006 1:24 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: helix on Apr 12, 2006 1:24 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've read slashdot for a while, but can't say i ever noticed the sexism. Then again i don't read all the comments. What made me stop reading it on a regular basis was the mix of silliness and actual news. Half of the stuff appearing is rumors of rumors of weird science.
But I do sympathise, because what's being described here is what happens everywhere on the net : a proportion of the more vocal internet users seem to be horny males (teenagers?). You start hiding your gender, because you know even the slightest suggestion could start an avalanche of sleaze. Better to be 'one of the boys'.
But I do sympathise, because what's being described here is what happens everywhere on the net : a proportion of the more vocal internet users seem to be horny males (teenagers?). You start hiding your gender, because you know even the slightest suggestion could start an avalanche of sleaze. Better to be 'one of the boys'.
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» RE: slashdot, or generally internet
Posted by: ttmrichter
» RE: slashdot, or generally internet
Posted by: surrealsunshine
» RE: slashdot, or generally internet...or any "male" enclave
Posted by: Kym525
» RE: slashdot, or generally internet...or any "male" enclave
Posted by: Armafied
» RE: slashdot, or generally internet...or any "male" enclave
Posted by: Kym525
» In defense of D&D
Posted by: scryberwitch
» RE: In defense of D&D
Posted by: nergohs
» RE: In defense of D&D
Posted by: Kym525
» RE: In defense of D&D
Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: In defense of D&D
Posted by: Kym525
» RE: In defense of D&D
Posted by: Kym525
» RE: In defense of D&D
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: In defense of D&D
Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: In defense of D&D
Posted by: Kym525
Comments are closed-
Media Figure
Posted by: Louisa on Apr 12, 2006 2:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Louisa on Apr 12, 2006 2:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You are a media figure. Why should people ignore what is out there about you? These are interesting links:
"Annalee Newitz, will you marry me?"
http://tinyurl.com/mldr9
Misc pictures
http://tinyurl.com/nl826
http://tinyurl.com/s24fb
http://tinyurl.com/q2fwh
"Annalee Newitz, will you marry me?"
http://tinyurl.com/mldr9
Misc pictures
http://tinyurl.com/nl826
http://tinyurl.com/s24fb
http://tinyurl.com/q2fwh
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» RE: Media Figure
Posted by: nergohs
Comments are closed-
Slashdot Sexism
Posted by: BobS on Apr 12, 2006 2:37 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: BobS on Apr 12, 2006 2:37 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a guy who spent 4 years in high school shop class when only guys took shop, I know the male dominated Slashdot culture well.
I remember when Annalee's story appeared and the reactions people had. It showed that men are a pretty diverse group and that some of us don't like the nasty defensive sexism that always seem to arise when a smart woman has something to say.
Annalee, I'm glad you are sticking with Slashdot. It's never going to be a "nice" neighborhood. But it sure doesn't have to be a sexist one.
Bob Simpson
Another Slashdotter
I remember when Annalee's story appeared and the reactions people had. It showed that men are a pretty diverse group and that some of us don't like the nasty defensive sexism that always seem to arise when a smart woman has something to say.
Annalee, I'm glad you are sticking with Slashdot. It's never going to be a "nice" neighborhood. But it sure doesn't have to be a sexist one.
Bob Simpson
Another Slashdotter
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» RE: Slashdot Sexism
Posted by: BobS
» RE: Slashdot Sexism?
Posted by: Legs
Comments are closed-
Slashdot
Posted by: tcx2 on Apr 12, 2006 3:09 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: tcx2 on Apr 12, 2006 3:09 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I stopped reading /. the day Rob put in that stupid user registration. Until then, the comments were fairly rational and calm. And I guess there were a couple hundred thousand less readers too...
Slashdot used to be a mostly Linux/free software (GNU) site, but has over time become a wasteland of arrogant know-it-alls and hate. Even the news just doesn't appeal to me now.
Slashdot used to be a mostly Linux/free software (GNU) site, but has over time become a wasteland of arrogant know-it-alls and hate. Even the news just doesn't appeal to me now.
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What A Miserable Person
Posted by: MediaSex on Apr 12, 2006 4:15 AM
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Posted by: MediaSex on Apr 12, 2006 4:15 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is the point of this male-bashing drivel appearing on a site like this one? No one wants to listen to someone wallow in their own self-proclaimed Victimhood.
Thousands and thousands of people read, post, flame, and get flammed on Slashdot and other forums on the Net every day. And they manage to cope just fine.
They're called grown-ups Annalee...
Thousands and thousands of people read, post, flame, and get flammed on Slashdot and other forums on the Net every day. And they manage to cope just fine.
They're called grown-ups Annalee...
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» RE: What A Miserable Person
Posted by: Aran
» RE: What A Miserable Person
Posted by: MediaSex
» RE: What A Miserable Person
Posted by: evilroygato
» RE: What A Miserable Person
Posted by: Armafied
» RE: What A Miserable Person
Posted by: Phenix
Comments are closed-
It's not just on technical websites...
Posted by: Caro on Apr 12, 2006 4:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Caro on Apr 12, 2006 4:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... that we find mysogyny. It's available on some liberal blogs and message groups, as well.
Back to the 50s. Oh, did we never leave them?
http://www.democrats.com/node/8154
Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com
Back to the 50s. Oh, did we never leave them?
http://www.democrats.com/node/8154
Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com
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» RE: It's not just on technical websites...
Posted by: surrealsunshine
» It's not just men either
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Oh the agony . . .
Posted by: Moonray on Apr 12, 2006 4:44 AM
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Posted by: Moonray on Apr 12, 2006 4:44 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why do you blame a website for the comments left by its readers? That hardly seems fair. Would you prefer that the site evaluate all the comments according to your criteria and censor out those remarks you deem offensive? That would be a huge burden.
Of course, as a modern woman, you feel obliged to claim victim status and scream it from the rooftops instead of ignoring the morons as a reasonable person would. And in the process you link yourself to Slashdot again, in effect having it both ways, as usual.
Of course, as a modern woman, you feel obliged to claim victim status and scream it from the rooftops instead of ignoring the morons as a reasonable person would. And in the process you link yourself to Slashdot again, in effect having it both ways, as usual.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Oh the agony . . .
Posted by: evilroygato
» RE: Oh the agony . . .
Posted by: Armafied
» RE: Oh the agony . . .
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Oh the agony . . .
Posted by: mistshadow2k4
» RE: Oh the agony . . .
Posted by: Phonelady
» RE: Oh the agony . . .
Posted by: munpfazy
Comments are closed-
when did Leftist Activists Stop Attacking the OverClass and Start Attacking Everyday Males?
Posted by: cry0fan on Apr 12, 2006 4:52 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: cry0fan on Apr 12, 2006 4:52 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Umm...I thought the Left was all about fighting for the little person. I thought the Left was supposed to be all about attacking the power of aggregated capital and monopoly power. I thought the Left was supposed to be all about uniting the bulk of the population together and organizing in order to get universal healhcare, progressive taxation, and a strong welfare state?
You know, like they have in Europe.
What Happened? If you look at the articles on Alternet and other Leftist websites, you have divisive identity politics mostly. Look at the percentages of the types of articles here on Alternet and on other left websites.
So why is our American Left all about attacking males, attacking the evil South and its evil "redneck", all about women's and minority rights, all about the environment, all about saving spotted owls?
When did ordinary, everyday racism become the paramount evil to extinguish, and when did the Overclass's grip on us become something to forget about?
The story of the American left is like watching the movie Invasion of the BodySnatchers! What happened to our Left?!
Now we have a false left obessed with race and gender and obsessed wirh attacking everyday, ordinary people and their everyday impulses and thoughts! Look, people are the way they are. All people are racist and sexist. Oh, but especially white males! You aint gonna change that.....
How about the Left instead concentrate on economic issues that affect everyone, like universal healthcare, progressive taxation, the welfare state, and getting us cheap broadband for the big cities, so we can end the elite-centered ideological hegemony that grips america via talk radio and the TV?
Alternet is a perfect example of the American left. It is not unusual in that respect. It represents the American left very well.
THe reason that the American Left will not do these things is the Amercan Left is the product of decades of money paid by the overclass, the rich and the corporations via nonprofit foundations. The Overclass started pumping money into these foundations after WW2. It actually started even before that when Rockefeller started philanthropy almost one hundred years ago. And his confidante expressed the idea that Rockefeller's money could be used via nonprofts to further Rockefeller's political goals.
After WW2 the anti-leftist machinations of the CIA and the FBI were channeled into the nonprofits and were used to divert leftists into "less harmful pursuits" according to Richard Bissel, who went from CIA honcho to Ford Foundattion honcho. The FBI was Gloria Steinem's first political benefactor.
So generations of plutocrat money was used to turn the left against the very segment of society that should have been the core constituency of the left--the white male. Witness who was rioting over economic issues this past month in France--WHITE MALES were THE BULK of them. That was not some immigrant uprising over there. Those French rioting in France for leftist economic issues France were WHITE MALES. That could NEVER happen here because white males have been pushed away from the Left, alienated from the Left by the Left's own attacks on THEM.
In Europe, the Left LOVES WHITE MALES. THey are the largest political bloc there. The natural energy and aggressiveness of males is the core of any real and true Left. The left NEEDS THE WHITE MALES. THere is no Left in America unless the white males make up its core. THe whites are 70% of American voters.
But in AMerica, the left here was turned against white males. Makes it real easy for the elite when the Left attacks its natural constituency.
No accident, that.
And Slashdot is a site that is mostly white males. And here the left is attacking them again.
No accident, that....
You know, like they have in Europe.
What Happened? If you look at the articles on Alternet and other Leftist websites, you have divisive identity politics mostly. Look at the percentages of the types of articles here on Alternet and on other left websites.
So why is our American Left all about attacking males, attacking the evil South and its evil "redneck", all about women's and minority rights, all about the environment, all about saving spotted owls?
When did ordinary, everyday racism become the paramount evil to extinguish, and when did the Overclass's grip on us become something to forget about?
The story of the American left is like watching the movie Invasion of the BodySnatchers! What happened to our Left?!
Now we have a false left obessed with race and gender and obsessed wirh attacking everyday, ordinary people and their everyday impulses and thoughts! Look, people are the way they are. All people are racist and sexist. Oh, but especially white males! You aint gonna change that.....
How about the Left instead concentrate on economic issues that affect everyone, like universal healthcare, progressive taxation, the welfare state, and getting us cheap broadband for the big cities, so we can end the elite-centered ideological hegemony that grips america via talk radio and the TV?
Alternet is a perfect example of the American left. It is not unusual in that respect. It represents the American left very well.
THe reason that the American Left will not do these things is the Amercan Left is the product of decades of money paid by the overclass, the rich and the corporations via nonprofit foundations. The Overclass started pumping money into these foundations after WW2. It actually started even before that when Rockefeller started philanthropy almost one hundred years ago. And his confidante expressed the idea that Rockefeller's money could be used via nonprofts to further Rockefeller's political goals.
After WW2 the anti-leftist machinations of the CIA and the FBI were channeled into the nonprofits and were used to divert leftists into "less harmful pursuits" according to Richard Bissel, who went from CIA honcho to Ford Foundattion honcho. The FBI was Gloria Steinem's first political benefactor.
So generations of plutocrat money was used to turn the left against the very segment of society that should have been the core constituency of the left--the white male. Witness who was rioting over economic issues this past month in France--WHITE MALES were THE BULK of them. That was not some immigrant uprising over there. Those French rioting in France for leftist economic issues France were WHITE MALES. That could NEVER happen here because white males have been pushed away from the Left, alienated from the Left by the Left's own attacks on THEM.
In Europe, the Left LOVES WHITE MALES. THey are the largest political bloc there. The natural energy and aggressiveness of males is the core of any real and true Left. The left NEEDS THE WHITE MALES. THere is no Left in America unless the white males make up its core. THe whites are 70% of American voters.
But in AMerica, the left here was turned against white males. Makes it real easy for the elite when the Left attacks its natural constituency.
No accident, that.
And Slashdot is a site that is mostly white males. And here the left is attacking them again.
No accident, that....
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» blah blah blah
Posted by: Allison
» New Left vs Old Left
Posted by: medstudgeek
» Monkey-see Monkey-Do Cargo Cultism (was RE: when did Leftist Activists Stop Attacking the OverClass
Posted by: cry0fan
» Hey Cryofan
Posted by: medstudgeek
» Roger that
Posted by: gpm
» RE: oger that
Posted by: medstudgeek
» dissent and the trend
Posted by: cry0fan
» RE: dissent and the trend
Posted by: gpm
» "It's the economy,stupid --same same as "it's the white males, stupid"
Posted by: cry0fan
» Fair argument.
Posted by: gpm
» RE: "It's the economy,stupid --same same as "it's the white males, stupid"
Posted by: Phonelady
» Conservatism as identity politics
Posted by: DavidByron
» DLW
Posted by: sausage
» No, he has a beef about the focus of the left.
Posted by: medstudgeek
» The guy's a right wing troll, period.
Posted by: sausage
» as the FauxLeft has defined "rightwing", you are absolutely correct!
Posted by: cry0fan
» Y'know what disturbs me about your florid posts...
Posted by: sausage
» Hmmm...
Posted by: medstudgeek
» Like I said,
Posted by: gpm
» Actually I didn't attack him personally
Posted by: sausage
» RE: Actually I didn't attack him personally
Posted by: gpm
» O.K. I did attack him personally
Posted by: sausage
» RE: O.K. I did attack him personally
Posted by: gpm
» I've got it
Posted by: McJulie
» RE: O.K. I did attack him personally
Posted by: YogiBear
» If you didn't intend to attack him personally
Posted by: DavidByron
» I'm a glad I'm not like you!
Posted by: sausage
» RE: I'm a glad I'm not like you!
Posted by: cry0fan
» RE: I'm a glad I'm not like you!
Posted by: writethiss
» Please be careful with this
Posted by: gpm
» ...so many people all in the same device
Posted by: writethiss
» RE: ...so many people all in the same device
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: ...so many people all in the same device
Posted by: writethiss
» RE: ...so many people all in the same device
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: ...so many people all in the same device
Posted by: gpm
» RE: ...so many people all in the same device
Posted by: writethiss
» RE: ...so many people all in the same device
Posted by: gpm
» RE: I'm a glad I'm not like you!
Posted by: Doug1956
» And if you were to recommend just one of those books?
Posted by: DavidByron
» RE: sausage feels confident it is OK to attack me personally. Why? (was RE: DLW)
Posted by: Asmodeus
» I take issue with cryOfan's gender poltics
Posted by: timebomb734
» RE: I take issue with cryOfan's gender poltics
Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: sausage feels confident it is OK to attack me personally. Why? (was RE: DLW)
Posted by: Phonelady
» Attacking prejudicial attitudes are central to the lefty view
Posted by: DavidByron
» RE: when did Leftist Activists Stop Attacking the OverClass and Start Attacking Everyday Males?
Posted by: Jim Pivonka
Comments are closed-
White males
Posted by: mandiwrite on Apr 12, 2006 5:14 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: mandiwrite on Apr 12, 2006 5:14 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm posting a new comment instead of a reply because for some reason, I don't click thru on reply.
In Europe the left loves white males? Oh no, you've got that one wrong. In Europe, white males love the left. And although there are still plenty of sexist males in Europe, Europe has, on the whole, moved further than the USA away from sexism. I speak as an observer, by the way - I live in the developing world, where raw sexism is still very real. And because of that, I know that until we are all free, none of us are free. From my own country's experience, I can tell you this: if you've been part of an oppressive group, don't expect to be loved. Tough tackie if you were always really a nice guy; you've got to change yourself. And some, at least, of Europe's men have done that, from what I see.
In Europe the left loves white males? Oh no, you've got that one wrong. In Europe, white males love the left. And although there are still plenty of sexist males in Europe, Europe has, on the whole, moved further than the USA away from sexism. I speak as an observer, by the way - I live in the developing world, where raw sexism is still very real. And because of that, I know that until we are all free, none of us are free. From my own country's experience, I can tell you this: if you've been part of an oppressive group, don't expect to be loved. Tough tackie if you were always really a nice guy; you've got to change yourself. And some, at least, of Europe's men have done that, from what I see.
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Slashdot is not the New York Times
Posted by: drouse on Apr 12, 2006 5:31 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: drouse on Apr 12, 2006 5:31 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Slashdot is no more the New York Times than Fark.com is, and it has no pretensions of being the Times. The website is simply Rob Malda's blog about technology and "stuff."
The site is, in fact, much closer to Fark.com than the Times -- consider the sarcastic headlines, the high school to freshman college atmosphere (not just sexism), and the duplicate articles - spelling mistakes - horrible grammar. The site also does very little original reporting, another difference between it and the Times - Slashdot is an aggregator, again, like Fark.com
Amd I certainly don't think a serious news source would have gone for a "OMG Ponies" theme for April Fool's Day. I surprised you didn't mention that, by the way, since it wasn't just sexist but showed a profound ignorance of women and how they think and behave.
Slashdot is the talk radio of tech news, with Linux replacing the Republican party as the favorite sacred cowl.
To me, ArsTechnica is a much better technical site. It has actual articles with real technical content and doesn't require the discussion boards to make it entertaining.
The site is, in fact, much closer to Fark.com than the Times -- consider the sarcastic headlines, the high school to freshman college atmosphere (not just sexism), and the duplicate articles - spelling mistakes - horrible grammar. The site also does very little original reporting, another difference between it and the Times - Slashdot is an aggregator, again, like Fark.com
Amd I certainly don't think a serious news source would have gone for a "OMG Ponies" theme for April Fool's Day. I surprised you didn't mention that, by the way, since it wasn't just sexist but showed a profound ignorance of women and how they think and behave.
Slashdot is the talk radio of tech news, with Linux replacing the Republican party as the favorite sacred cowl.
To me, ArsTechnica is a much better technical site. It has actual articles with real technical content and doesn't require the discussion boards to make it entertaining.
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» Fark.com
Posted by: Allison
Comments are closed-
Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: medstudgeek on Apr 12, 2006 5:51 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: medstudgeek on Apr 12, 2006 5:51 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm going to respond to this because it's something I've been thinking about for a while...
The real problem is that nerds don't get enough sex. (Or relationships.) No, really. Girls won't give us the time of day in junior high or later and it tends to create a certain bitterness. 'A lack of understanding about the way women work'? Well, um, yeah, we don't get girlfriends until we're 20, so naturally we don't understand how women are.
Is it any surprise that any woman in technology story is inevitably accompanied by immature comments about whether she is single or not? We all wish more women like that existed, but they don't, and I have come to the sad conclusion (after years of thinking otherwise) that they never will.
Besides, objectifying as it may seem to be referred to as a 'geek girl' rather than as a 'media geek' who happens to be female, you have to realize that they are at least somewhat interested in the contents of your cortex (or else they'd just be looking for the latest bimbo, right?).
Hey, look, if we were football fans, we'd be hurling insults and driving you away.
The real problem is that nerds don't get enough sex. (Or relationships.) No, really. Girls won't give us the time of day in junior high or later and it tends to create a certain bitterness. 'A lack of understanding about the way women work'? Well, um, yeah, we don't get girlfriends until we're 20, so naturally we don't understand how women are.
Is it any surprise that any woman in technology story is inevitably accompanied by immature comments about whether she is single or not? We all wish more women like that existed, but they don't, and I have come to the sad conclusion (after years of thinking otherwise) that they never will.
Besides, objectifying as it may seem to be referred to as a 'geek girl' rather than as a 'media geek' who happens to be female, you have to realize that they are at least somewhat interested in the contents of your cortex (or else they'd just be looking for the latest bimbo, right?).
Hey, look, if we were football fans, we'd be hurling insults and driving you away.
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» RE: Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: ttmrichter
» RE: Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: churchofone
» RE: Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: klaatukev
» RE: Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: pomes
» Speaking as a former "nice guy"
Posted by: RobG
» RE: Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: surrealsunshine
» RE: It kind of cuts both ways
Posted by: Pseudo Morals
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I thought the article was great
Posted by: klaatukev on Apr 12, 2006 6:13 AM
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Posted by: klaatukev on Apr 12, 2006 6:13 AM
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I laughed my white, male, feminist ass off when I read the original article. Comments about your looks should obviously be taken with a grain of salt (especially on Slashdot), although I will say that there are many men who find that intelligence and wit contribute more to "hotness" or "gorgeousness" than physical appearance alone.
For instance, Janeane Garofolo had and still has legions of male feminist fans who think she is beautiful both on the inside and outside. In fact, my fiancee sometimes gets irritated because my attraction patterns gravitate more toward biting sarcasm and intelligence than raw physical looks. She claims that she would be less worried if I would just drool over Jessica Simpson and Britney Spears like most other guys.
Maureen Dowd, the columnist for the New York Times, probably has suffered from the same sort of battles between knuckle-dragging men who resent her intelligence and feminist men who resent that they are often painted with the same brush as the knuckle-draggers.
Ms. Newitz, you are an insightful and humorous writer (The DRM comment which seemed to elude many of the Slashdotters nearly knocked me out of my chair in laughter). Admittedly, your looks should not be a factor in determining whether or not you have a fanbase or credibility.
But, I must say that I also feel bad for the gentleman who felt he needed to apologize for saying you were "gorgeous." It's not his fault that there are ignorant dumbasses out there who would judge you and your work solely on the basis of appearance. Your indignation should be directed at those who would insult you from that ignorance, and those who would only compliment you because of your looks; not at everyone who would discuss that particular topic at all.
Regardless, if you keep writing, I'll do my best to keep reading.
Shameless blog plug: In Need of Therapy
For instance, Janeane Garofolo had and still has legions of male feminist fans who think she is beautiful both on the inside and outside. In fact, my fiancee sometimes gets irritated because my attraction patterns gravitate more toward biting sarcasm and intelligence than raw physical looks. She claims that she would be less worried if I would just drool over Jessica Simpson and Britney Spears like most other guys.
Maureen Dowd, the columnist for the New York Times, probably has suffered from the same sort of battles between knuckle-dragging men who resent her intelligence and feminist men who resent that they are often painted with the same brush as the knuckle-draggers.
Ms. Newitz, you are an insightful and humorous writer (The DRM comment which seemed to elude many of the Slashdotters nearly knocked me out of my chair in laughter). Admittedly, your looks should not be a factor in determining whether or not you have a fanbase or credibility.
But, I must say that I also feel bad for the gentleman who felt he needed to apologize for saying you were "gorgeous." It's not his fault that there are ignorant dumbasses out there who would judge you and your work solely on the basis of appearance. Your indignation should be directed at those who would insult you from that ignorance, and those who would only compliment you because of your looks; not at everyone who would discuss that particular topic at all.
Regardless, if you keep writing, I'll do my best to keep reading.
Shameless blog plug: In Need of Therapy
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» Time for me to get yelled at
Posted by: medstudgeek
» Roger this post.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: I thought the article was great
Posted by: BlueTigress
» Janeane Garofolo
Posted by: YogiBear
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Who's Sexist?
Posted by: smedrick on Apr 12, 2006 6:30 AM
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Posted by: smedrick on Apr 12, 2006 6:30 AM
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Isn't it also sexist to claim this is behavior dominated by males? People (both male and female) are fascinated by sex...it dominates our lives. You can't blame anyone for following their own natural impulses to fixate on looks and sexual desires.
As far as Slashdot is concerned, I think most of the registered regulars there are very arrogant, mostly intelligent, and rarely PC. They're not afraid of offending anyone because tech nerds aren't concerned with such trivial constructs. When there's a beefy topic, they'll beat the dead horse with expertise and fanaticism. When the article is void of any form of intellectual heft, they turn their attention elsewhere. This article you cited as an example is a case of the latter. There was nothing of interest in the article to discuss, so they fixated on the author.
A more secure person would have taken the "gorgeous" comment as a compliment and brushed the rest off. Instead you chastize a group of people for participating in a conversation we all have on a daily basis. The only people keeping sexism alive today are those who claim to rally against it.
As far as Slashdot is concerned, I think most of the registered regulars there are very arrogant, mostly intelligent, and rarely PC. They're not afraid of offending anyone because tech nerds aren't concerned with such trivial constructs. When there's a beefy topic, they'll beat the dead horse with expertise and fanaticism. When the article is void of any form of intellectual heft, they turn their attention elsewhere. This article you cited as an example is a case of the latter. There was nothing of interest in the article to discuss, so they fixated on the author.
A more secure person would have taken the "gorgeous" comment as a compliment and brushed the rest off. Instead you chastize a group of people for participating in a conversation we all have on a daily basis. The only people keeping sexism alive today are those who claim to rally against it.
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» RE: Who's Sexist?
Posted by: Pseudo Morals
» RE: Who's Sexist?
Posted by: chomsky
» RE: Who's Sexist?
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
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Nerds & Misogyny
Posted by: supercrisp on Apr 12, 2006 7:23 AM
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Posted by: supercrisp on Apr 12, 2006 7:23 AM
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In my experience nerds tend to be just as misogynist as other men and even more so. Another poster points out the economy involved: men want women, nerds are unattractive, sour grapes. Men are taught a crazy sense of entitlement. Did anyone else see the moron in the news “striking” up on the roof of his house because his wife wouldn’t screw him.
I track this back to what I believe is the fact that Americans are the biggest babies, most spoiled, bratty people on the face of our planet. Our sense of entitlement presently and in the past extended to a continent or to the entire life of another human being (slavery, capital punishment), to the government of foreign nations, to those nations’ produce, etc. So it’s no surprise that almost all men here think they have part ownership in all womens’ cooches. It’s part of our propaganda, in the same way that “Baby on board” often translates to “Get the hell out the way.”
On the other hand, it annoys me when I speak to a woman and she thinks I’m trying to get into her pants. But it’s no real biggy, after all, that’s what most men are doing to women most of the time. It must get pretty damn old. I mean, I’m annoyed because I can talk to another person who just happens to have a vagina without my motives being questioned, yet women face this same issue all the time: when, they must wonder, does someone really give a damn about me and not my sex?
I think we’d all do a damn sight better to acknowledge our desires as our own and not demand that others gratify them for us.
I track this back to what I believe is the fact that Americans are the biggest babies, most spoiled, bratty people on the face of our planet. Our sense of entitlement presently and in the past extended to a continent or to the entire life of another human being (slavery, capital punishment), to the government of foreign nations, to those nations’ produce, etc. So it’s no surprise that almost all men here think they have part ownership in all womens’ cooches. It’s part of our propaganda, in the same way that “Baby on board” often translates to “Get the hell out the way.”
On the other hand, it annoys me when I speak to a woman and she thinks I’m trying to get into her pants. But it’s no real biggy, after all, that’s what most men are doing to women most of the time. It must get pretty damn old. I mean, I’m annoyed because I can talk to another person who just happens to have a vagina without my motives being questioned, yet women face this same issue all the time: when, they must wonder, does someone really give a damn about me and not my sex?
I think we’d all do a damn sight better to acknowledge our desires as our own and not demand that others gratify them for us.
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» RE: Husband on strike
Posted by: BlueTigress
» Alternet's leftist collectivism is all about demanding that others gratify one's desires
Posted by: Torgo
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geeks not knowing what to make of smart women? no surprise there
Posted by: bshaurette on Apr 12, 2006 8:15 AM
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Posted by: bshaurette on Apr 12, 2006 8:15 AM
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As a female programmer, I sympathize - it's a challenge being a woman in a male-dominated industry. I'm a regular Slashdot reader, and it definitely bothers me to see the conversations take such a misogynistic turn every once in a while. But I don't know if I would take it so personally - I think a lot of the guys at the core of tech culture, the guys that make up the bulk of the Slashdot audience, are still those socially inept geeks who haven't learned to respect smart women. They don't know what to make of us, so they fall back to sexism. It used to bother me a lot, but there are more and more women entering tech fields every day. Our time is coming, it's just not here quite yet.
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» RE: geeks not knowing what to make of smart women? no surprise there
Posted by: YogiBear
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Slashdot...
Posted by: algorithm_x on Apr 12, 2006 8:17 AM
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Posted by: algorithm_x on Apr 12, 2006 8:17 AM
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Has become a parody of itself. Next time you read an article, watch for the tin-man (Uberg33k, more 1337 than you) the cowardly lion (appologist, usually passive agressive, always dressed tough)and the scarecrow (he'll opine over the lack of linux posts, and condemn people for posting duplicates).
I use it purely to get news, and not very much at that, as google does a nice job of rounding up news articles. Oh of course I'm here a lot as well.
I use it purely to get news, and not very much at that, as google does a nice job of rounding up news articles. Oh of course I'm here a lot as well.
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mommyfirst
Posted by: pushing50 on Apr 12, 2006 8:34 AM
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Posted by: pushing50 on Apr 12, 2006 8:34 AM
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As a newcomer to the internet, I have not yet read slashdot, and until I can get my computer to work a little better ( I think there are too many antivirus/antispyware thingies trying to run at the same time), I am unlikely to do so. However, I have a couple of general thoughts about the male/techie phenomenon.
First, it is in the enlightened self interest of the industry to make it easy and comfortable for the female 51% of the world's population to use high technology resources. More customers means more money, right? The people who lead the high tech industry should be fostering a female friendly environment for the accessing of all computer-related stuff as fast and effectively as they can.
Secondly, as a long time dater (before marriage) of the most extreme geeks and nerds (because smart is sexy, of course) I can attest that geeks/nerds are no different from other males in their minute by minute obsession with s*x. The change these days is that there now exist all these fora for the written recording of this inevitable obsession. We seem to be newly privy to sexually fixated fantasies and musings which in prior decades would have been confided to a diary, a confessor, or the uncaring silence of one's room. I maintain that all fellows think this way about women and sex, and always have, but the bloggers now put their ideas into writing for us to be appalled at. That doesn't make it right or good, but it helps to place it in perspective for me. The intellectual gifts of the female they are considering is entirely irrelevant when the hormones are in action. In the words of my favorite man on the passage through his field of vision of an oddly dressed but well endowed female; "She had clothes on?".
Women who are tech savvy are a great inspiration and all power to you! To the author of this article, don't lose heart, keep up the good work, laugh at the guys and be glad we are not slaves to our gonads to this extent!
First, it is in the enlightened self interest of the industry to make it easy and comfortable for the female 51% of the world's population to use high technology resources. More customers means more money, right? The people who lead the high tech industry should be fostering a female friendly environment for the accessing of all computer-related stuff as fast and effectively as they can.
Secondly, as a long time dater (before marriage) of the most extreme geeks and nerds (because smart is sexy, of course) I can attest that geeks/nerds are no different from other males in their minute by minute obsession with s*x. The change these days is that there now exist all these fora for the written recording of this inevitable obsession. We seem to be newly privy to sexually fixated fantasies and musings which in prior decades would have been confided to a diary, a confessor, or the uncaring silence of one's room. I maintain that all fellows think this way about women and sex, and always have, but the bloggers now put their ideas into writing for us to be appalled at. That doesn't make it right or good, but it helps to place it in perspective for me. The intellectual gifts of the female they are considering is entirely irrelevant when the hormones are in action. In the words of my favorite man on the passage through his field of vision of an oddly dressed but well endowed female; "She had clothes on?".
Women who are tech savvy are a great inspiration and all power to you! To the author of this article, don't lose heart, keep up the good work, laugh at the guys and be glad we are not slaves to our gonads to this extent!
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the best response
Posted by: lorijh on Apr 12, 2006 8:35 AM
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Posted by: lorijh on Apr 12, 2006 8:35 AM
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The IT world has always been a male bastion (even though women have been right there all along, of course). Part of the appeal of your columns and articles since you first came on the scene -- besides displaying your savvy intellect and wicked humor -- is your perspective and voice as a woman. The reason this is so effective is precisely because you're in an industry that is so predominantly male.
Despite all of our technological and social advances, it's disappointing to see such clear evidence that some age-old sexist dynamics persist. I guess there will always be men (boys?) who seem to think they are absolutely entitled to pass judgment on a woman's physical characteristics as though that is the ultimate benchmark of credibility. Your choice to take a step back as a professional journalist and consider all of this in a sociological light, then write about it rather than take offense, is absolutely the best response.
Despite all of our technological and social advances, it's disappointing to see such clear evidence that some age-old sexist dynamics persist. I guess there will always be men (boys?) who seem to think they are absolutely entitled to pass judgment on a woman's physical characteristics as though that is the ultimate benchmark of credibility. Your choice to take a step back as a professional journalist and consider all of this in a sociological light, then write about it rather than take offense, is absolutely the best response.
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» I wonder ....
Posted by: gpm
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why am i crazy?
Posted by: cry0fan on Apr 12, 2006 8:45 AM
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Posted by: cry0fan on Apr 12, 2006 8:45 AM
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cuz i don't adhere to one of the two prepackaged, divisive faux-ideologies handed down to us from on high?
gimme some thorazine, baby!
gimme some thorazine, baby!
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» RE: why am i crazy?
Posted by: cry0fan
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why am i crazy?
Posted by: cry0fan on Apr 12, 2006 8:45 AM
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Posted by: cry0fan on Apr 12, 2006 8:45 AM
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cuz i don't adhere to one of the two prepackaged, divisive faux-ideologies handed down to us from on high?
gimme some thorazine, baby!
gimme some thorazine, baby!
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Improper word usage
Posted by: surrealsunshine on Apr 12, 2006 8:50 AM
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Posted by: surrealsunshine on Apr 12, 2006 8:50 AM
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http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sexism
Sexism does not include things such as commenting on someone's appearance even though they really, reall want you to comment on their acticle instead. Cheapening the meaning of words in the hopes of making a point is not a good road to start down. Harrasment and sexism are practically meaningless at this point because they're thrown around to describe any sort of behaviour that is "unacceptable." Did slashdot say not to post if you're female? Did anyone say that nothing you wrote is valid because you're female? Or did your feelings get hurt (which is perfectly normal when random strangers are evaluating your appearance in a public forum) and you became defensive?
It's good to see (mostly) rational debate on social topics, but lets be realistic about what qualifies as a real issue.
Sexism does not include things such as commenting on someone's appearance even though they really, reall want you to comment on their acticle instead. Cheapening the meaning of words in the hopes of making a point is not a good road to start down. Harrasment and sexism are practically meaningless at this point because they're thrown around to describe any sort of behaviour that is "unacceptable." Did slashdot say not to post if you're female? Did anyone say that nothing you wrote is valid because you're female? Or did your feelings get hurt (which is perfectly normal when random strangers are evaluating your appearance in a public forum) and you became defensive?
It's good to see (mostly) rational debate on social topics, but lets be realistic about what qualifies as a real issue.
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one kernel of truth in cry0fan's rant- dismantling of empathy
Posted by: thistleblower on Apr 12, 2006 8:50 AM
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Posted by: thistleblower on Apr 12, 2006 8:50 AM
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one truth stated in cry0fan's rant is the idea that the people have been turned against each other in order to nullify their influence. It's documented and if you look around, very real, and the one thing that is keeping the left from gaining a foothold with average people. I am a leftie living among conservative types in a working class neighborhood in a small city in the midwest. their perception of lefties is (1) they're communists (and the corollary that communism is tantamount to satanism), (2) they're anti-american values (not true, by far the opposite in my opinion) and (3) they are smug elitist bookworm city slickers who like to patronize plain folk and dress them down with their crazy ideas. I think there is some truth to that belief. My own family is composed of "plain folk" and I have been called a "city slicker," literally, on a couple occasions. I have been snobs to them on occasion because I get tired of their conventional thinking and their xenophobia. Still, I do what I can to build commonalities (with my neighbors- my family is another issue entirely), and we find we agree on issues in many ways. We all think more jobs should be kept in America, for instance. Interestingly, we all agree on buying local when possible, somthing I would have never guessed had I not asked. Truly meaningful, lasting change will not occur in this country until we all do the same.
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» Cry0fan has a lot of good points.
Posted by: medstudgeek
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SO do youhave issues with your looks?
Posted by: popsicle67 on Apr 12, 2006 9:16 AM
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Posted by: popsicle67 on Apr 12, 2006 9:16 AM
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That is what I wonder. Just because somebody recognizes that you have that quality called attractiveness does not mean everything else about you means nothing to him. You are going to have a rotten life expecting men to only see your skills as a writer.
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» Would you ask this question
Posted by: gpm
» RE: SO do youhave issues with your looks?
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
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slashdot is...slashdot
Posted by: jessicalh on Apr 12, 2006 9:18 AM
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Posted by: jessicalh on Apr 12, 2006 9:18 AM
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I can't say that as a queer person with lefty leanings I have ever found slashdot comfortable or "on" -- in fact, I can pretty much count on its comment rating system to elevate people who value the local consensus and whose politics are what would be expected at almost any IT water cooler. That said I learned a lot from slashdot about how a rating moderated system (I'm sure there's a correct term which I'm not using) can work, its strengths and weakness. DailyKos and Slashdot together present a fascinating picture of what happens when the posts are moderated by ratings or recommendations and there are more posts than web real estate. Slashdot is _fascinating_ sometimes, but I don't expect community there, or any uncomfortable recognition of other people's realities.
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The Majority Report
Posted by: Orwells_nightmare on Apr 12, 2006 9:35 AM
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Posted by: Orwells_nightmare on Apr 12, 2006 9:35 AM
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A similar thing happens to Janeane Garofalo over on the Majority Report. Last time I read it, she had a core of fans who visited the blog and basically spent the whole show discussing how fine she was. They were answered by the detractors who thought she was the original dog-faced girl. Neither of them have much to do with the blog.
I suppose it's perpetuated by a tacit assumption that the said blogger should be flattered by the attention and take it as a compliment. I think the odd frivolous comment like 'gorgeous nerd'(incidentally, sounds like a good nic' to me =) are basically harmless, but when they swallow up the whole thread, it's just dull, repetitive and off-topic.
I suppose it's perpetuated by a tacit assumption that the said blogger should be flattered by the attention and take it as a compliment. I think the odd frivolous comment like 'gorgeous nerd'(incidentally, sounds like a good nic' to me =) are basically harmless, but when they swallow up the whole thread, it's just dull, repetitive and off-topic.
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What a silly article
Posted by: hockeysk8 on Apr 12, 2006 10:13 AM
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Posted by: hockeysk8 on Apr 12, 2006 10:13 AM
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I read AlterNet for its very well presented arguments but this article is worse than most comments that are posted on Slashdot! I can't believe that the AlterNet editors allowed this poorly written piece on their site ... so poorly written I don't even know where to begin.
Nevertheless, referring to all males as "dicks" isn't going to win you much sympothy, Annalee. And are you serious? You are upset over comments on one of the most popular open forums on the Internet? Did you know that ANYONE can comment on Slashdot and most often somewhat anonymously?!? This is hardly the halls of academia!
With that being said, I read Slashdot and enjoy it. However, I put the comment filter on the highest threshold which usually does a pretty good job of weeding out the less than intelligent comments. Reading the comments in this fashion I find the Slashdot crowd to be quite liberal and their viewpoints refreshingly enlightened.
Nevertheless, referring to all males as "dicks" isn't going to win you much sympothy, Annalee. And are you serious? You are upset over comments on one of the most popular open forums on the Internet? Did you know that ANYONE can comment on Slashdot and most often somewhat anonymously?!? This is hardly the halls of academia!
With that being said, I read Slashdot and enjoy it. However, I put the comment filter on the highest threshold which usually does a pretty good job of weeding out the less than intelligent comments. Reading the comments in this fashion I find the Slashdot crowd to be quite liberal and their viewpoints refreshingly enlightened.
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Leftism in the USA
Posted by: squattyroo on Apr 12, 2006 10:26 AM
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Posted by: squattyroo on Apr 12, 2006 10:26 AM
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One clear distinction between left movements in the US & in Europe is that the US is NOT Europe. Thus, the appeal of leftist political thought, parties, movements to white males in Europe arises from a different cultural/social matrix as this appeal would have to white American males. To put it bluntly, in the US, class IS race.
Until fairly recently, European socities have been relatively homogeneous: race & ethnicity were not the dragons they have been in the US, at least until the wogs started moving to the metropole in large numbers. As a previous poster noted, leftism (by which we mean some sort of egalitarianism)appeals to white European males in ways that threaten white American males' sense of identity & stauts. Even a cursory examination of US history tells us that white males have always resisted class solidarity with non-whites, from the Populist movment on out. The New Dealers, in fact, had to de-racinate their program in order for it to become effective. There has never been a "Labor" party in the US--unlike in most European states--, nor even a convincingly "Liberal" party; up until 5 minutes ago the Democrats were the party of segregation in the South & lily white unions in the North.
So, "identity politics" has ALWAYS been practiced in the USA; for the oppressed, "identity politics" was the way to power. That the american left should be steeped in identity politics is as natural as springtime, tho springtime eventually turns to other seasons.
That said, white European males--so beloved of one of the previous posters--have never had to affirm their status in the racial/ethnic slop that is US culture. The conflation of race & class in the American mind therefore gives rise to all kinds of barbarous chauvinisms, as evidenced by the rantings of the poster above.
Until fairly recently, European socities have been relatively homogeneous: race & ethnicity were not the dragons they have been in the US, at least until the wogs started moving to the metropole in large numbers. As a previous poster noted, leftism (by which we mean some sort of egalitarianism)appeals to white European males in ways that threaten white American males' sense of identity & stauts. Even a cursory examination of US history tells us that white males have always resisted class solidarity with non-whites, from the Populist movment on out. The New Dealers, in fact, had to de-racinate their program in order for it to become effective. There has never been a "Labor" party in the US--unlike in most European states--, nor even a convincingly "Liberal" party; up until 5 minutes ago the Democrats were the party of segregation in the South & lily white unions in the North.
So, "identity politics" has ALWAYS been practiced in the USA; for the oppressed, "identity politics" was the way to power. That the american left should be steeped in identity politics is as natural as springtime, tho springtime eventually turns to other seasons.
That said, white European males--so beloved of one of the previous posters--have never had to affirm their status in the racial/ethnic slop that is US culture. The conflation of race & class in the American mind therefore gives rise to all kinds of barbarous chauvinisms, as evidenced by the rantings of the poster above.
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» RE: Leftism in the USA
Posted by: Seabrook
» To what extent was the racism manufactured?
Posted by: DavidByron
» RE: To what extent was the racism manufactured?
Posted by: squattyroo
» Manufacturing Consent...
Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: Manufacturing Consent...
Posted by: squattyroo
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And Now For Some Solutions
Posted by: trapplean on Apr 12, 2006 10:44 AM
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Posted by: trapplean on Apr 12, 2006 10:44 AM
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Annalee, I am glad you wrote this article, and that AlterNet published it.
I agree with medstudgeek above - a lack of intimate knowledge of and experience with women does encourage this sort of behavior from geek men. Sure, we could point fingers at boys or girls, in high school or college, whether they are popular or geeky/nerdy or not...but I think we can all agree the problem exists. We can also probably agree that a logical solution is to increase the real life experience the geek guys have with women. I'm not a big fan of problems. I'd rather solve them than bemoan them, so I offer some suggestions below.
Annalee mentions smart women (and men) getting in the blogging face of men who perpetuate these behaviors in places such as Slashdot. This sends the message that the sexist behavior is not acceptable, and the message is an important one. Of course, this also merely treats the symptom, and does nothing to eliminate the source of the behavior.
Now, rather than point fingers at the various guilty parties, as an intelligent female geek, I'm going to do what is in my power to solve the problem. First and foremost, I encourage other women and girls to develop and pride themselves on their intelligence over their looks. Physical beauty is great--I'm an attractive woman, and my looks certainly do open doors for me, opportunities that I use my intelligence to take advantage of--but it is transitory, and by itself, it is ultimately of little value. As a child, I did not know if I would be pretty when I grew up, but I knew that I alone had the power to make myself smart.
My goal has always been to push my intellectual limits at every turn, and now I seek to encourage other girls to do the same, including (especially) my two daughters. Because any woman can get an MRS degree, but then really, what does she have, if her entire identity is tied up in the man who married her for her fleeting good lucks? I've dated both men and women, and in either case, intelligent partners make better partners. Add good looks and well all the better, but in the long term, I care a whole lot more about what is inside the person's head. More women need to realize that smart is the sexiest of all, and I'm on a mission to help them see this. ;)
So what of the men? They need help, so I'm trying to help them. My husband and I are producing a podcast, called Intellectual Icebergs. It's a podcast for geeks, by geeks, covering both hard and soft science and tech topics. One of my pet areas, and an area I'm devoting numerous segments to, is dating tips for geeks. I've spent over a year now researching the dating problems geeks (more so the men, but also the women) encounter, and providing solutions to these problems. A few geeks at a time, I'm trying to make a difference, to modify behaviors and help create relationship opportunities for a group of people who on the average, have social skills that were left behind in their pursuit of their intellectual endeavors.
We're smart, though, we geeks, and we're often very internally driven to excel. Given the tools, given some encouragement and a little caring advice, we can and do change. It just takes a few of us to recognize the need, stop pointing fingers, and start creating solutions.
~ Tiffany Rapplean
www.intellectualicebergs.org
I agree with medstudgeek above - a lack of intimate knowledge of and experience with women does encourage this sort of behavior from geek men. Sure, we could point fingers at boys or girls, in high school or college, whether they are popular or geeky/nerdy or not...but I think we can all agree the problem exists. We can also probably agree that a logical solution is to increase the real life experience the geek guys have with women. I'm not a big fan of problems. I'd rather solve them than bemoan them, so I offer some suggestions below.
Annalee mentions smart women (and men) getting in the blogging face of men who perpetuate these behaviors in places such as Slashdot. This sends the message that the sexist behavior is not acceptable, and the message is an important one. Of course, this also merely treats the symptom, and does nothing to eliminate the source of the behavior.
Now, rather than point fingers at the various guilty parties, as an intelligent female geek, I'm going to do what is in my power to solve the problem. First and foremost, I encourage other women and girls to develop and pride themselves on their intelligence over their looks. Physical beauty is great--I'm an attractive woman, and my looks certainly do open doors for me, opportunities that I use my intelligence to take advantage of--but it is transitory, and by itself, it is ultimately of little value. As a child, I did not know if I would be pretty when I grew up, but I knew that I alone had the power to make myself smart.
My goal has always been to push my intellectual limits at every turn, and now I seek to encourage other girls to do the same, including (especially) my two daughters. Because any woman can get an MRS degree, but then really, what does she have, if her entire identity is tied up in the man who married her for her fleeting good lucks? I've dated both men and women, and in either case, intelligent partners make better partners. Add good looks and well all the better, but in the long term, I care a whole lot more about what is inside the person's head. More women need to realize that smart is the sexiest of all, and I'm on a mission to help them see this. ;)
So what of the men? They need help, so I'm trying to help them. My husband and I are producing a podcast, called Intellectual Icebergs. It's a podcast for geeks, by geeks, covering both hard and soft science and tech topics. One of my pet areas, and an area I'm devoting numerous segments to, is dating tips for geeks. I've spent over a year now researching the dating problems geeks (more so the men, but also the women) encounter, and providing solutions to these problems. A few geeks at a time, I'm trying to make a difference, to modify behaviors and help create relationship opportunities for a group of people who on the average, have social skills that were left behind in their pursuit of their intellectual endeavors.
We're smart, though, we geeks, and we're often very internally driven to excel. Given the tools, given some encouragement and a little caring advice, we can and do change. It just takes a few of us to recognize the need, stop pointing fingers, and start creating solutions.
~ Tiffany Rapplean
www.intellectualicebergs.org
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» RE: And Now For Some Solutions
Posted by: MediaSex
» RE: And Now For Some Solutions
Posted by: trapplean
» RE: And Now For Some Solutions
Posted by: Kym525
» ???
Posted by: gpm
Comments are closed-
Fight evil where you find it
Posted by: writethiss on Apr 12, 2006 10:57 AM
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Posted by: writethiss on Apr 12, 2006 10:57 AM
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The overclass in this country/era is corporate -- their interest is in stripping the rights and power from individuals to ensure greater profitability. (ie. The destruction of democracy would suit them nicely.) That is a very real threat, probably the greatest threat of our time, and sure it would be cool to enlist the support of a vast powerful demographic – white guys. But here's the rub: all government agencies and most corporate hierarchies are controlled by white guys. And they’re feathering their nests by demolishing democracy. But that's not all: many of these same white guys are also actively working to secure their white guy interests by restricting the rights and opportunities of anyone who is not a white guy: ban abortion so women are again hostages of unwanted pregnancies and forced into greater dependency; abolish affirmative action so white guy's kids get to stay on top, etc... The effects of sexism and racism are real: they are poverty and powerlessness -- welcome to the underclass you're so hip to. The problem with the underclass relying on white males to help bolster the left is kind of like the inmates in a prison asking the guards to help them start a riot. What the hell's in it for them?
For the left, there really is just one solution: Fight evil where you find it.
For the left, there really is just one solution: Fight evil where you find it.
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» Frontman fallacy, Prejudicial nonsense
Posted by: DavidByron
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Always Consider the source dear
Posted by: saywhat? on Apr 12, 2006 12:19 PM
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Posted by: saywhat? on Apr 12, 2006 12:19 PM
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Are these the kind of nerds with horned rim glasses and in love with sodapop and mcdonalds? eeeewwwwwwuuggggggg..........demand a picture with each dis!!!!
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» RE: Always Consider the source dear
Posted by: pomes
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feminist dogma run amok
Posted by: defiant on Apr 12, 2006 1:43 PM
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Posted by: defiant on Apr 12, 2006 1:43 PM
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So, a few geeks online have gone too far when they issue an opinion a woman wouldn't like? The hyper-feminists we have to endure in nearly every aspect of our newspeak world now want to castrate internet geeks, too? I guess freedom of speech only applies to women like you who are bashing men - everything else is unfortunately slow "cultural evolution". Whatever.
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Boingboing less sexist than /.?
Posted by: Praxis on Apr 12, 2006 1:56 PM
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Posted by: Praxis on Apr 12, 2006 1:56 PM
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I would read other geek culture blogs like BoingBoing, where the male editors are feminists and Xeni Jardin knows why it sucks that some creeps care more about her ass than the political op-ed she just wrote for the Los Angeles Times.
I'd never heard of the site, but figured I'd check it out since I generally enjoy Annalee Newitz's schtick and she gave it her imprimatur. I saw coverage of a mathematical equation for the perfect female ass (the formula is (S+C) x (B+F)/T = V, by the way), lots of references to using marshmellow "peeps" to hid taboo body parts (with pictures of appropriately accoutered nekkid wymyn), and a blurb about a female at the recent French protests undressed up like the bare-bosomed subject of Eugène Delacroix's "Liberty Leading the People." Personally, I thought the site was reasonably entertaining and wasn't offended by any of it, but I searched the entire page for a reference to 'Linux' and wasn't able to get past 'lin' before Firefox beeped at me. I bookmarked it, but it isn't going to replace Slashdot for my daily dose of geek news & commentary.
Frankly, I am pretty impressed by the quality of much of the commentary on Slashdot. Most of the entries, even by Anonymous Cowards, are funny or interesting or both. But apparently the readership is 98.3% male, at least according to April Fool's edition where they tried to gussy up the site in pink with bullets like " OMG Ponies!" to "widen our appeal to these less active demographics." Now that was sexist and puerile (and funny to me).
We might wish it were different, but many hetero-sexual males are curious about what female writers they read look like, for whatever reason. That doesn't mean we HAVE to make disparaging or offensive references to writers' appearances, but I've probably 'Google Imaged' most of the female commentators on Alternet (and FWIW I think Annalee, Lakshmi & Molly are HOT!)
I'd never heard of the site, but figured I'd check it out since I generally enjoy Annalee Newitz's schtick and she gave it her imprimatur. I saw coverage of a mathematical equation for the perfect female ass (the formula is (S+C) x (B+F)/T = V, by the way), lots of references to using marshmellow "peeps" to hid taboo body parts (with pictures of appropriately accoutered nekkid wymyn), and a blurb about a female at the recent French protests undressed up like the bare-bosomed subject of Eugène Delacroix's "Liberty Leading the People." Personally, I thought the site was reasonably entertaining and wasn't offended by any of it, but I searched the entire page for a reference to 'Linux' and wasn't able to get past 'lin' before Firefox beeped at me. I bookmarked it, but it isn't going to replace Slashdot for my daily dose of geek news & commentary.
Frankly, I am pretty impressed by the quality of much of the commentary on Slashdot. Most of the entries, even by Anonymous Cowards, are funny or interesting or both. But apparently the readership is 98.3% male, at least according to April Fool's edition where they tried to gussy up the site in pink with bullets like " OMG Ponies!" to "widen our appeal to these less active demographics." Now that was sexist and puerile (and funny to me).
We might wish it were different, but many hetero-sexual males are curious about what female writers they read look like, for whatever reason. That doesn't mean we HAVE to make disparaging or offensive references to writers' appearances, but I've probably 'Google Imaged' most of the female commentators on Alternet (and FWIW I think Annalee, Lakshmi & Molly are HOT!)
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Options
Posted by: plover on Apr 12, 2006 2:36 PM
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Posted by: plover on Apr 12, 2006 2:36 PM
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You get bent out of shape by /. trolls? You have a couple of choices that I can see:
1. Leave. Obviously you don't want to do that because you believe /. to be the nerve center of geekdom. But every other option will require you to toughen up a bit.
2. Reply. Sink to the level of the trolls. Defend yourself, call the trolls out, flames on, whatever. But watch out, you could spend your whole life doing this -- there are always more trolls. And remember the warning: "Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics: even if you win, you're still a retard." Cruel, but true.
3. Ignore them. It hurts, though, to watch yourself get dragged through mud on a frequent basis. You can also foe the troll and everyone who feeds him. Publicise your foe list in your journal and the reasons why trolls make it onto your list.
4. Hide. "On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog." Create a non-gendered nickname. Don't announce anything about yourself, lie, claim to have a sex change operation, you could do any number of things. Lord knows the trolls do this all the time. Perhaps just keep it low-key. Starting a post with "As a woman, I think X about the subject" is a great way to inject off-topic sexism into any discussion. It invites sexist replies, while probably not adding anything to your original point.
5. Rant. This story is a good start -- now, if you can get it posted to the front page of /. maybe more people will start thinking about their callous behavior. More people might recognize the trolls. And the more people befoe the trolls, the less power they have.
6. Some of the above. Create multiple accounts, one to bait the trolls, one to present your professional face, and one to rant.
Finally, don't be afraid to cop the "don't take it too seriously, it's just /." attitude. If people call you on it and say "why didn't you reply to that sexist pig?" you could also tell them "he's a troll, he's wasting valuable oxygen that we could use to better the world. I'm not wasting mine on him."
1. Leave. Obviously you don't want to do that because you believe /. to be the nerve center of geekdom. But every other option will require you to toughen up a bit.
2. Reply. Sink to the level of the trolls. Defend yourself, call the trolls out, flames on, whatever. But watch out, you could spend your whole life doing this -- there are always more trolls. And remember the warning: "Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics: even if you win, you're still a retard." Cruel, but true.
3. Ignore them. It hurts, though, to watch yourself get dragged through mud on a frequent basis. You can also foe the troll and everyone who feeds him. Publicise your foe list in your journal and the reasons why trolls make it onto your list.
4. Hide. "On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog." Create a non-gendered nickname. Don't announce anything about yourself, lie, claim to have a sex change operation, you could do any number of things. Lord knows the trolls do this all the time. Perhaps just keep it low-key. Starting a post with "As a woman, I think X about the subject" is a great way to inject off-topic sexism into any discussion. It invites sexist replies, while probably not adding anything to your original point.
5. Rant. This story is a good start -- now, if you can get it posted to the front page of /. maybe more people will start thinking about their callous behavior. More people might recognize the trolls. And the more people befoe the trolls, the less power they have.
6. Some of the above. Create multiple accounts, one to bait the trolls, one to present your professional face, and one to rant.
Finally, don't be afraid to cop the "don't take it too seriously, it's just /." attitude. If people call you on it and say "why didn't you reply to that sexist pig?" you could also tell them "he's a troll, he's wasting valuable oxygen that we could use to better the world. I'm not wasting mine on him."
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» RE: Options
Posted by: YogiBear
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Thanks for this Annalee
Posted by: itripn on Apr 12, 2006 4:07 PM
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Posted by: itripn on Apr 12, 2006 4:07 PM
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As a man with a Wife, Daughter and Mother, and numerous other important women in my life, I thank you for this article. It is well written.
I did find out about you from the /. article you mentioned, and for that I am thankful, because you write wonderfully and about great topics.
Thanks again.
Ron
I did find out about you from the /. article you mentioned, and for that I am thankful, because you write wonderfully and about great topics.
Thanks again.
Ron
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I have never noticed this type of thing on Slashdot
Posted by: russellcole38 on Apr 12, 2006 4:15 PM
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Posted by: russellcole38 on Apr 12, 2006 4:15 PM
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Your article suprises me. I have never noticed any discursive thread comparable in content and considerations to the communications you describe. I have been reading it for a year now, as well as, Digg, and I must say that matters of sexuality have escaped me. Nevertheless, I applaud the fact that you possessed the ability to revise your interpretation of the type of dialogue the site engenders. The tech industry is still predominately male, so I suppose it is not shocking that it fosters the type of sexism you describe. The only thing that troubles me is your conceptualization of human culture as some kind of process of maturation, through which people develop the social-interactive skills to operate according to the standards you envoke. Cultural feminists have long advocated, at least some of them, a seperatist agenda, which procures cultural spaces free of male hegemony, where women would be provided the autonomy necessary to develop a positively valued identities and cultural forms that satisfy women's aesthetic preferences. Therefore, just in passing, you should think in terms of proliferating diversity with respect to culture, where everybody can find a home, rather than attempting to force other identities to conform to your own proclivities.
Russell
Russell
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Please submit picture.
Posted by: douglashoyt on Apr 12, 2006 7:03 PM
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Posted by: douglashoyt on Apr 12, 2006 7:03 PM
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I would like to judge if your ass is too big.
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» RE: Please submit picture.
Posted by: jesme
» You can find it on the internet.
Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: Please submit picture, posted by Douglashoyt.
Posted by: pushing50
» Great question! I'd like to see this debated (perhaps on slashdot?)
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Men are boors --- YAWN!
Posted by: Legs on Apr 13, 2006 4:13 AM
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Posted by: Legs on Apr 13, 2006 4:13 AM
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There are a lot of semi-socialized boys and men on Slashdot. This is news? Hell, I thought that the fact that the U.S. was toying with nuking Iran was news. Silly me.
"It appears our long national journey towards complete idiocy is over. We've arrived."
-- http://billmon.org/archives/002375.html
"It appears our long national journey towards complete idiocy is over. We've arrived."
-- http://billmon.org/archives/002375.html
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Roomba Cockfighting?
Posted by: steve-a-saurus on Apr 13, 2006 12:54 PM
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Posted by: steve-a-saurus on Apr 13, 2006 12:54 PM
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How come the Roomba Cockfighting article didn't get this much response? Fighting appliances is far more relevant to life in America...
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there's always digg!
Posted by: presta on Apr 13, 2006 3:05 PM
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Posted by: presta on Apr 13, 2006 3:05 PM
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Judging by the comments, I'd say this got Slashdotted (or something else), but I'll still just throw in that there's always digg, Analee. If you watch diggnation, you know that the kids over there are just plain cool.
Also, as a native of Campbell raised on the Metro, thanks for always having something to look forward to once I'd finished 'Life is Hell,' and Cecil's 'Straight Dope.' You helped turn me into the undergrad (feminist) geek I am today.
-steve
Also, as a native of Campbell raised on the Metro, thanks for always having something to look forward to once I'd finished 'Life is Hell,' and Cecil's 'Straight Dope.' You helped turn me into the undergrad (feminist) geek I am today.
-steve
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Your looks may not be relevant, your sexism is
Posted by: DavidByron on Apr 13, 2006 6:13 PM
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Posted by: DavidByron on Apr 13, 2006 6:13 PM
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If you want to fight for justice you might start by reducing your own prejudices. Your entire article reeks of sexism and anti-male stereotyping. Instead of spending so much time figuring out why men are "dicks", ("is it dickish biology or dickish culture"), I suggest you figure out why you feel the need to insult men in the first place.
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I suppose
Posted by: richardpmendola on Apr 14, 2006 8:43 AM
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Posted by: richardpmendola on Apr 14, 2006 8:43 AM
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You have to have something to write about. I expect, however, that your means of expression and what you express are related. You write like a potty mouth. Wow, cool .
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Building a Class-Based Left
Posted by: medstudgeek on Apr 14, 2006 11:27 AM
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Posted by: medstudgeek on Apr 14, 2006 11:27 AM
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This may be a little offtopic but I see this topic coming up over and over again on recent Alternet discussions (even ones ostensibly about sexism on Internet bulletin boards). I'd like to open a thread for anyone who wants to discuss the idea that the left's race- and gender-based politics have been counterproductive recently (even if historically justified) and that a focus on class would be more productive. Anyone care to join me?
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» RE: Building a Class-Based Left
Posted by: cry0fan
» RE: Building a Class-Based Left
Posted by: Jim Pivonka
Comments are closed-
Relax
Posted by: lamar on Apr 14, 2006 1:00 PM
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Posted by: lamar on Apr 14, 2006 1:00 PM
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Your attractiveness doesn't "get in the way" of your articles. Your attractiveness is a function of how badass your articles are, and our collective interpolation of how cool or uncool your life must be based on photos and your opinions. Trust me, if you wrote shitty articles, nobody would profess their love for you. Boo hoo. Further, you have three things technology, pop culture, and sex. Now that I wrote the word sex, I forget what my whole point was. Thanks.
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Big Yawn
Posted by: chomsky on Apr 14, 2006 4:51 PM
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Posted by: chomsky on Apr 14, 2006 4:51 PM
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I logged in with bugmenot so god knows what nic I will be using now (ps. comment registration sucks) but
a) you put up your picture (and possibly others) on the internet, an eminently public place
b) slashdot is visited by doctors, engineers, Really Smart People (tm) and basement-dwelling lower lifeforms alike
c) any high-traffic site on the internet will have its percentage of morons aged 9-99 who will not refrain from spouting their mind
so what is your point? Do you think women don't know that yes, there are idiots on the internet? Hordes of them?
a) you put up your picture (and possibly others) on the internet, an eminently public place
b) slashdot is visited by doctors, engineers, Really Smart People (tm) and basement-dwelling lower lifeforms alike
c) any high-traffic site on the internet will have its percentage of morons aged 9-99 who will not refrain from spouting their mind
so what is your point? Do you think women don't know that yes, there are idiots on the internet? Hordes of them?
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» RE: Big Yawn
Posted by: chomsky
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slashdot's unreliable narration
Posted by: chomsky on Apr 14, 2006 5:26 PM
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Posted by: chomsky on Apr 14, 2006 5:26 PM
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All slashdot comments should be taken with a grain of salt, if not a healthy pinch of it.
Trolling is endemic on slashdot. I'd wager that a rather large proportion of the comments directed toward your appearance were, in fact, bait set by trolls.
Trolling is endemic on slashdot. I'd wager that a rather large proportion of the comments directed toward your appearance were, in fact, bait set by trolls.
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Wow. Ms. Negative Newitz you are
Posted by: acidrain69 on Apr 14, 2006 9:34 PM
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Posted by: acidrain69 on Apr 14, 2006 9:34 PM
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You know, as a male and a slashdot reader, I was happy to see you get airtime on Slashdot. I find your articles provoking at times, entertaining, and intelligent. I thought to myself, "Wow, good for her, she deserves the exposure". But you focus on a few lowly trolls, who are usually the loudest when an argument erupts (all too frequently on Slashdot).
Free advice, which I think you already realize: Don't feed the trolls. Don't even look at the trolls, you just feed them more by looking at them. Are you turning your back on a problem? Possibly. But don't forget that all anyone has on a blog such as slashdot is their communication, and acknowledging them just gives them something to respond to. You aren't going to change them all. Most of them will grow out of it, some of them will just continue being republican, etc.
Moral: Just be happy several hundred thousand people who have similar interests as you now know you exist. You are a writer, and you also need acknowledgement. Maybe it isn't the acknowledgement you wanted, but you are basically a public figure in a sense, and don't have the luxury of choosing.
Don't get too bent out of shape about it, and keep up the good work, ok?
Free advice, which I think you already realize: Don't feed the trolls. Don't even look at the trolls, you just feed them more by looking at them. Are you turning your back on a problem? Possibly. But don't forget that all anyone has on a blog such as slashdot is their communication, and acknowledging them just gives them something to respond to. You aren't going to change them all. Most of them will grow out of it, some of them will just continue being republican, etc.
Moral: Just be happy several hundred thousand people who have similar interests as you now know you exist. You are a writer, and you also need acknowledgement. Maybe it isn't the acknowledgement you wanted, but you are basically a public figure in a sense, and don't have the luxury of choosing.
Don't get too bent out of shape about it, and keep up the good work, ok?
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bitch=woman
Posted by: chomsky on Apr 15, 2006 1:18 PM
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Posted by: chomsky on Apr 15, 2006 1:18 PM
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Bla
Okay all you looser women reading this...if you want to play with us boys and be taken as equals you must put up with our antics. I mean come on...I looked up Annalee Newitz on google and she/you did not come off as a "seriously and professionally" person to me...more of some type of emo needy geek grrrl that is into manga/computer and crap.
So maybe if you want to be taken more "seriously and professionally" you will play the part...and not just bitch.
Now please leave the room.
Frank Spencer
Okay all you looser women reading this...if you want to play with us boys and be taken as equals you must put up with our antics. I mean come on...I looked up Annalee Newitz on google and she/you did not come off as a "seriously and professionally" person to me...more of some type of emo needy geek grrrl that is into manga/computer and crap.
So maybe if you want to be taken more "seriously and professionally" you will play the part...and not just bitch.
Now please leave the room.
Frank Spencer
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» RE: bitch=woman
Posted by: saywhat?
» RE: bitch=woman
Posted by: Jim Pivonka
» RE: bitch=woman
Posted by: Elmowilcox
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Sexyism is not sexual hairy-assment...I don't think...
Posted by: mallowdoggy on Apr 16, 2006 4:07 AM
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Posted by: mallowdoggy on Apr 16, 2006 4:07 AM
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The wonderful truth is that we are first sexual, second everything else. Not Mr./Ms.potatoheads with interchangeable genitalia, or "professionals" before sex objects. We are all potentially sex objects to someone. The stale oyster of the '70's feminist anti-erotic movement, that "objectifying" women was somehow depriving them of power was deeply misguided. In fact, erotica is mostly idolatry of women; it is the women who are the big stars in sex; it's more akin to the Venus worship cults in ancient times.
This feminist detour against "objectifying" females is more a product of our puritan past, where sexuality became shameful and derogatory, and women began to be concerned about their "reps."
My girlfriend was reading a book by a woman about French culture, and she describes that there are classes in France for female executives who are going to the U.S. to work, in which they are warned not to feel disliked because workmates don't make passes at them, or ask them out to lunch or dinner, because we have a thing in the U.S. called "Sexual Harassment" which is a serious offence in which men can lose their jobs.
Bewildered French female execs in France apparently expect flirting on site as friendly ackowledgement, and don't understand why this doesn't occur stateside. There are equivalent classes for American men who go over, in which they are instructed that it is RUDE not to comment on EVERY woman's looks (favorably of course), and it is customary on starting a new job to ask out EVERY woman in the office, no matter how young or old, so that no one feels left out. So I think it's clearly cultural.
If someone online feels ok to call you "gorgeous", why be offended? And yes, /. is a nerd haven full of guys who aren't getting laid enough, no surprises there. The point is, Women's sexuality can be a form of power, not a handicap. Of course, no one likes persistent advances by someone who is undesirable; gay guys and lesbians cringe at the advances of opposite sex come-ons, as straight people can react to the advances of same-sex come-ons, etc.
But in a verbal discourse, and one where people develop on-line personas, especially when sexuality is part of the celebrity profile (sex toy reviews etc.) Why not encourage what seems to be genuine affection? The angry jerks who truly are sexists deserve their rebukes, and you might find you have more sympathetic males out there to call them on their BS.
This feminist detour against "objectifying" females is more a product of our puritan past, where sexuality became shameful and derogatory, and women began to be concerned about their "reps."
My girlfriend was reading a book by a woman about French culture, and she describes that there are classes in France for female executives who are going to the U.S. to work, in which they are warned not to feel disliked because workmates don't make passes at them, or ask them out to lunch or dinner, because we have a thing in the U.S. called "Sexual Harassment" which is a serious offence in which men can lose their jobs.
Bewildered French female execs in France apparently expect flirting on site as friendly ackowledgement, and don't understand why this doesn't occur stateside. There are equivalent classes for American men who go over, in which they are instructed that it is RUDE not to comment on EVERY woman's looks (favorably of course), and it is customary on starting a new job to ask out EVERY woman in the office, no matter how young or old, so that no one feels left out. So I think it's clearly cultural.
If someone online feels ok to call you "gorgeous", why be offended? And yes, /. is a nerd haven full of guys who aren't getting laid enough, no surprises there. The point is, Women's sexuality can be a form of power, not a handicap. Of course, no one likes persistent advances by someone who is undesirable; gay guys and lesbians cringe at the advances of opposite sex come-ons, as straight people can react to the advances of same-sex come-ons, etc.
But in a verbal discourse, and one where people develop on-line personas, especially when sexuality is part of the celebrity profile (sex toy reviews etc.) Why not encourage what seems to be genuine affection? The angry jerks who truly are sexists deserve their rebukes, and you might find you have more sympathetic males out there to call them on their BS.
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» RE: Sexyism is not sexual hairy-assment...I don't think...
Posted by: Bwesley
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Just a thought
Posted by: Elmowilcox on Apr 16, 2006 11:41 AM
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Posted by: Elmowilcox on Apr 16, 2006 11:41 AM
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You remember bad things that happen in your life, while anything good or just not-bad typically goes unnoticed(exceptions exist of course). With that said, I've noticed that "problems in society" are generally the acts of the one tenth of one percentile portion of the population. Most people are normal, statistically speaking. Keep in mind there are 250 million in this country alone, and we aren't even the only ones on the net. Almost all guys have the traits outlined in this article ingrained into their biology, but the greater majority also knows how to act like respectable human beings. So for people to take the actions of some idiots on the internet as a sign of the times, well, is kind of a sign of the times in itself, in my opinion. I would say that people worried about what someone else says about what they posted, or even worse someone worried about being personally attacked, have too much time on their hands or way too much emotion invested in internet websites. Why are women so damn emotional about what some jackass in Chicago said about their post? I'm a male and I post things, and guys inevitably respond with abrasive, scathing remarks that don't necessarily have a damn thing to do with what I wrote, see me crying? I'll leave it with this comment, among men there are arseholes, and woman have their biotches. Everyone in between should just ignore the irrational, emotional statements they make and get over it.
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Political views of slashdot
Posted by: medstudgeek on Apr 16, 2006 1:22 PM
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Posted by: medstudgeek on Apr 16, 2006 1:22 PM
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Actually, slashdot's becoming increasingly progressive as their jobs get sent to India, they used to be libertarian but now capitalism has turned on them. You know how a liberal is a conservative who's out of work?
Also most political discussions eventually bring up European social democracy as an alternative. Cry0fan's posted on there and was actually pretty enlightening for me.
They're not chauvinist so much as sex-starved.
Also most political discussions eventually bring up European social democracy as an alternative. Cry0fan's posted on there and was actually pretty enlightening for me.
They're not chauvinist so much as sex-starved.
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"Info-tainment"
Posted by: Steven Wanzell on Apr 16, 2006 6:09 PM
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Posted by: Steven Wanzell on Apr 16, 2006 6:09 PM
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Like so much material deemed "news", I think Slashdot (some might prefer to call it "Slipshod") fits well within the realm of info-tainment.
In terms of its being sexist, we must keep in mind the obvious: that the entire world is (still) dominated by males, and, unfortunately, most women still prefer it that way, or buy the absurd myth that male supremacy is the "natural order". Personally, I think women make better leaders than men, if we consider "leadership" to be an activity of organization and administration, rather than one of conquest.
Women can't be Barbie, AND be politically and economically equal to men. Their fate as a collective entity IS in their own (over-manicured) hands. It's very much like the gay rights movement. Now that it seems to be fighting seriously for equal representation under the law, rather than the "right to cross-dress", those rights are becoming a legal reality. Their redefinition of self has led them to fight for what really matters.
Similarly, only when the majority of women themselves no longer accept and make excuses for their willing misteatment, marginalization and subjugation, will the two sexes exist on an equal par.
Steven Wanzell,
artist/activist/ex-American
www.wanzellarts.com.ar
In terms of its being sexist, we must keep in mind the obvious: that the entire world is (still) dominated by males, and, unfortunately, most women still prefer it that way, or buy the absurd myth that male supremacy is the "natural order". Personally, I think women make better leaders than men, if we consider "leadership" to be an activity of organization and administration, rather than one of conquest.
Women can't be Barbie, AND be politically and economically equal to men. Their fate as a collective entity IS in their own (over-manicured) hands. It's very much like the gay rights movement. Now that it seems to be fighting seriously for equal representation under the law, rather than the "right to cross-dress", those rights are becoming a legal reality. Their redefinition of self has led them to fight for what really matters.
Similarly, only when the majority of women themselves no longer accept and make excuses for their willing misteatment, marginalization and subjugation, will the two sexes exist on an equal par.
Steven Wanzell,
artist/activist/ex-American
www.wanzellarts.com.ar
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For a real victim see Violet Blue
Posted by: gnash on Apr 16, 2006 10:05 PM
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Posted by: gnash on Apr 16, 2006 10:05 PM
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Filled with all the good stuff accusations of "misogynist" to writing about his corpse f***ing fantasies about Xeni and Violet... everyday. Too bad they are all lies, but it's ok no one will know (middle of page).
They may not know, but they are confused and un-impressed.
Thought on this: One of the best ways to be seen on equal footing and not have your work be judged on your gender is to not play the gender card when one doesn't like criticisms. On a general journalistic 101 tip - it is also a good idea not to fabricate events in your story in an attempt to get back at the critic. I know this (like Annalee and Xeni) but at least one just doesn't get it (Violet Blue).
They may not know, but they are confused and un-impressed.
Thought on this: One of the best ways to be seen on equal footing and not have your work be judged on your gender is to not play the gender card when one doesn't like criticisms. On a general journalistic 101 tip - it is also a good idea not to fabricate events in your story in an attempt to get back at the critic. I know this (like Annalee and Xeni) but at least one just doesn't get it (Violet Blue).
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» RE: For a real victim see Violet Blue
Posted by: gnash
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For those who don't realize that techgeekdom is dominated by guys...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Apr 18, 2006 10:37 AM
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Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Apr 18, 2006 10:37 AM
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You should each make a pilgrimage to the MIT flea market held third sunday of the month April through Sept (I think).
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Maybe this will shed some light on things
Posted by: bithead on Apr 19, 2006 11:11 AM
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Posted by: bithead on Apr 19, 2006 11:11 AM
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Nothing for you to see here...
Posted by: eneva on Jul 17, 2006 12:24 PM
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Posted by: eneva on Jul 17, 2006 12:24 PM
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Slashdot is the way it is because its audience consists mostly of young men who behave accordingly. Like it or leave it, really. A great majority of people are idiots anyway, and when you twist some statistic like gender distribution, you get a corresponding change in the quality of stupidity. Trust me, women have their own oddities -- communities of women tend to degenerate into backstabbing catfights, for example. At least guys just drink their beer and gawk at girls, and if there's a conflict, it's a fair fistfight.
I am not particularly impressed by the fact that feminists are always declaring war on behaviour which is probably as old as the human race itself. One IS free to just move along. And no, I will not stop calling a gorgeous nerd a gorgeous nerd when I see one... I would be just simply stating facts! If women on the net won't call the (rare?) nerd hunk a hunk, it's their problem entirely; they're the ones who won't be dating that guy for sure. Instead, they will become bitter old maids who spend the rest of their lives alone, posting on alternet about what asses men are...
I am not particularly impressed by the fact that feminists are always declaring war on behaviour which is probably as old as the human race itself. One IS free to just move along. And no, I will not stop calling a gorgeous nerd a gorgeous nerd when I see one... I would be just simply stating facts! If women on the net won't call the (rare?) nerd hunk a hunk, it's their problem entirely; they're the ones who won't be dating that guy for sure. Instead, they will become bitter old maids who spend the rest of their lives alone, posting on alternet about what asses men are...
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slashdot, or generally internet
Posted by: helix on Apr 12, 2006 1:24 AM
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Posted by: helix on Apr 12, 2006 1:24 AM
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I've read slashdot for a while, but can't say i ever noticed the sexism. Then again i don't read all the comments. What made me stop reading it on a regular basis was the mix of silliness and actual news. Half of the stuff appearing is rumors of rumors of weird science.
But I do sympathise, because what's being described here is what happens everywhere on the net : a proportion of the more vocal internet users seem to be horny males (teenagers?). You start hiding your gender, because you know even the slightest suggestion could start an avalanche of sleaze. Better to be 'one of the boys'.
But I do sympathise, because what's being described here is what happens everywhere on the net : a proportion of the more vocal internet users seem to be horny males (teenagers?). You start hiding your gender, because you know even the slightest suggestion could start an avalanche of sleaze. Better to be 'one of the boys'.
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» In defense of D&D
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Media Figure
Posted by: Louisa on Apr 12, 2006 2:33 AM
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Posted by: Louisa on Apr 12, 2006 2:33 AM
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You are a media figure. Why should people ignore what is out there about you? These are interesting links:
"Annalee Newitz, will you marry me?"
http://tinyurl.com/mldr9
Misc pictures
http://tinyurl.com/nl826
http://tinyurl.com/s24fb
http://tinyurl.com/q2fwh
"Annalee Newitz, will you marry me?"
http://tinyurl.com/mldr9
Misc pictures
http://tinyurl.com/nl826
http://tinyurl.com/s24fb
http://tinyurl.com/q2fwh
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» RE: Media Figure
Posted by: nergohs
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Slashdot Sexism
Posted by: BobS on Apr 12, 2006 2:37 AM
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Posted by: BobS on Apr 12, 2006 2:37 AM
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As a guy who spent 4 years in high school shop class when only guys took shop, I know the male dominated Slashdot culture well.
I remember when Annalee's story appeared and the reactions people had. It showed that men are a pretty diverse group and that some of us don't like the nasty defensive sexism that always seem to arise when a smart woman has something to say.
Annalee, I'm glad you are sticking with Slashdot. It's never going to be a "nice" neighborhood. But it sure doesn't have to be a sexist one.
Bob Simpson
Another Slashdotter
I remember when Annalee's story appeared and the reactions people had. It showed that men are a pretty diverse group and that some of us don't like the nasty defensive sexism that always seem to arise when a smart woman has something to say.
Annalee, I'm glad you are sticking with Slashdot. It's never going to be a "nice" neighborhood. But it sure doesn't have to be a sexist one.
Bob Simpson
Another Slashdotter
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» RE: Slashdot Sexism
Posted by: BobS
» RE: Slashdot Sexism?
Posted by: Legs
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Slashdot
Posted by: tcx2 on Apr 12, 2006 3:09 AM
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Posted by: tcx2 on Apr 12, 2006 3:09 AM
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I stopped reading /. the day Rob put in that stupid user registration. Until then, the comments were fairly rational and calm. And I guess there were a couple hundred thousand less readers too...
Slashdot used to be a mostly Linux/free software (GNU) site, but has over time become a wasteland of arrogant know-it-alls and hate. Even the news just doesn't appeal to me now.
Slashdot used to be a mostly Linux/free software (GNU) site, but has over time become a wasteland of arrogant know-it-alls and hate. Even the news just doesn't appeal to me now.
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What A Miserable Person
Posted by: MediaSex on Apr 12, 2006 4:15 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: MediaSex on Apr 12, 2006 4:15 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is the point of this male-bashing drivel appearing on a site like this one? No one wants to listen to someone wallow in their own self-proclaimed Victimhood.
Thousands and thousands of people read, post, flame, and get flammed on Slashdot and other forums on the Net every day. And they manage to cope just fine.
They're called grown-ups Annalee...
Thousands and thousands of people read, post, flame, and get flammed on Slashdot and other forums on the Net every day. And they manage to cope just fine.
They're called grown-ups Annalee...
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» RE: What A Miserable Person
Posted by: Aran
» RE: What A Miserable Person
Posted by: MediaSex
» RE: What A Miserable Person
Posted by: evilroygato
» RE: What A Miserable Person
Posted by: Armafied
» RE: What A Miserable Person
Posted by: Phenix
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It's not just on technical websites...
Posted by: Caro on Apr 12, 2006 4:26 AM
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Posted by: Caro on Apr 12, 2006 4:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... that we find mysogyny. It's available on some liberal blogs and message groups, as well.
Back to the 50s. Oh, did we never leave them?
http://www.democrats.com/node/8154
Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com
Back to the 50s. Oh, did we never leave them?
http://www.democrats.com/node/8154
Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com
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» RE: It's not just on technical websites...
Posted by: surrealsunshine
» It's not just men either
Posted by: YogiBear
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Oh the agony . . .
Posted by: Moonray on Apr 12, 2006 4:44 AM
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Posted by: Moonray on Apr 12, 2006 4:44 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why do you blame a website for the comments left by its readers? That hardly seems fair. Would you prefer that the site evaluate all the comments according to your criteria and censor out those remarks you deem offensive? That would be a huge burden.
Of course, as a modern woman, you feel obliged to claim victim status and scream it from the rooftops instead of ignoring the morons as a reasonable person would. And in the process you link yourself to Slashdot again, in effect having it both ways, as usual.
Of course, as a modern woman, you feel obliged to claim victim status and scream it from the rooftops instead of ignoring the morons as a reasonable person would. And in the process you link yourself to Slashdot again, in effect having it both ways, as usual.
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» RE: Oh the agony . . .
Posted by: evilroygato
» RE: Oh the agony . . .
Posted by: Armafied
» RE: Oh the agony . . .
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Oh the agony . . .
Posted by: mistshadow2k4
» RE: Oh the agony . . .
Posted by: Phonelady
» RE: Oh the agony . . .
Posted by: munpfazy
Comments are closed-
when did Leftist Activists Stop Attacking the OverClass and Start Attacking Everyday Males?
Posted by: cry0fan on Apr 12, 2006 4:52 AM
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Posted by: cry0fan on Apr 12, 2006 4:52 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Umm...I thought the Left was all about fighting for the little person. I thought the Left was supposed to be all about attacking the power of aggregated capital and monopoly power. I thought the Left was supposed to be all about uniting the bulk of the population together and organizing in order to get universal healhcare, progressive taxation, and a strong welfare state?
You know, like they have in Europe.
What Happened? If you look at the articles on Alternet and other Leftist websites, you have divisive identity politics mostly. Look at the percentages of the types of articles here on Alternet and on other left websites.
So why is our American Left all about attacking males, attacking the evil South and its evil "redneck", all about women's and minority rights, all about the environment, all about saving spotted owls?
When did ordinary, everyday racism become the paramount evil to extinguish, and when did the Overclass's grip on us become something to forget about?
The story of the American left is like watching the movie Invasion of the BodySnatchers! What happened to our Left?!
Now we have a false left obessed with race and gender and obsessed wirh attacking everyday, ordinary people and their everyday impulses and thoughts! Look, people are the way they are. All people are racist and sexist. Oh, but especially white males! You aint gonna change that.....
How about the Left instead concentrate on economic issues that affect everyone, like universal healthcare, progressive taxation, the welfare state, and getting us cheap broadband for the big cities, so we can end the elite-centered ideological hegemony that grips america via talk radio and the TV?
Alternet is a perfect example of the American left. It is not unusual in that respect. It represents the American left very well.
THe reason that the American Left will not do these things is the Amercan Left is the product of decades of money paid by the overclass, the rich and the corporations via nonprofit foundations. The Overclass started pumping money into these foundations after WW2. It actually started even before that when Rockefeller started philanthropy almost one hundred years ago. And his confidante expressed the idea that Rockefeller's money could be used via nonprofts to further Rockefeller's political goals.
After WW2 the anti-leftist machinations of the CIA and the FBI were channeled into the nonprofits and were used to divert leftists into "less harmful pursuits" according to Richard Bissel, who went from CIA honcho to Ford Foundattion honcho. The FBI was Gloria Steinem's first political benefactor.
So generations of plutocrat money was used to turn the left against the very segment of society that should have been the core constituency of the left--the white male. Witness who was rioting over economic issues this past month in France--WHITE MALES were THE BULK of them. That was not some immigrant uprising over there. Those French rioting in France for leftist economic issues France were WHITE MALES. That could NEVER happen here because white males have been pushed away from the Left, alienated from the Left by the Left's own attacks on THEM.
In Europe, the Left LOVES WHITE MALES. THey are the largest political bloc there. The natural energy and aggressiveness of males is the core of any real and true Left. The left NEEDS THE WHITE MALES. THere is no Left in America unless the white males make up its core. THe whites are 70% of American voters.
But in AMerica, the left here was turned against white males. Makes it real easy for the elite when the Left attacks its natural constituency.
No accident, that.
And Slashdot is a site that is mostly white males. And here the left is attacking them again.
No accident, that....
You know, like they have in Europe.
What Happened? If you look at the articles on Alternet and other Leftist websites, you have divisive identity politics mostly. Look at the percentages of the types of articles here on Alternet and on other left websites.
So why is our American Left all about attacking males, attacking the evil South and its evil "redneck", all about women's and minority rights, all about the environment, all about saving spotted owls?
When did ordinary, everyday racism become the paramount evil to extinguish, and when did the Overclass's grip on us become something to forget about?
The story of the American left is like watching the movie Invasion of the BodySnatchers! What happened to our Left?!
Now we have a false left obessed with race and gender and obsessed wirh attacking everyday, ordinary people and their everyday impulses and thoughts! Look, people are the way they are. All people are racist and sexist. Oh, but especially white males! You aint gonna change that.....
How about the Left instead concentrate on economic issues that affect everyone, like universal healthcare, progressive taxation, the welfare state, and getting us cheap broadband for the big cities, so we can end the elite-centered ideological hegemony that grips america via talk radio and the TV?
Alternet is a perfect example of the American left. It is not unusual in that respect. It represents the American left very well.
THe reason that the American Left will not do these things is the Amercan Left is the product of decades of money paid by the overclass, the rich and the corporations via nonprofit foundations. The Overclass started pumping money into these foundations after WW2. It actually started even before that when Rockefeller started philanthropy almost one hundred years ago. And his confidante expressed the idea that Rockefeller's money could be used via nonprofts to further Rockefeller's political goals.
After WW2 the anti-leftist machinations of the CIA and the FBI were channeled into the nonprofits and were used to divert leftists into "less harmful pursuits" according to Richard Bissel, who went from CIA honcho to Ford Foundattion honcho. The FBI was Gloria Steinem's first political benefactor.
So generations of plutocrat money was used to turn the left against the very segment of society that should have been the core constituency of the left--the white male. Witness who was rioting over economic issues this past month in France--WHITE MALES were THE BULK of them. That was not some immigrant uprising over there. Those French rioting in France for leftist economic issues France were WHITE MALES. That could NEVER happen here because white males have been pushed away from the Left, alienated from the Left by the Left's own attacks on THEM.
In Europe, the Left LOVES WHITE MALES. THey are the largest political bloc there. The natural energy and aggressiveness of males is the core of any real and true Left. The left NEEDS THE WHITE MALES. THere is no Left in America unless the white males make up its core. THe whites are 70% of American voters.
But in AMerica, the left here was turned against white males. Makes it real easy for the elite when the Left attacks its natural constituency.
No accident, that.
And Slashdot is a site that is mostly white males. And here the left is attacking them again.
No accident, that....
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» blah blah blah
Posted by: Allison
» New Left vs Old Left
Posted by: medstudgeek
» Monkey-see Monkey-Do Cargo Cultism (was RE: when did Leftist Activists Stop Attacking the OverClass
Posted by: cry0fan
» Hey Cryofan
Posted by: medstudgeek
» Roger that
Posted by: gpm
» RE: oger that
Posted by: medstudgeek
» dissent and the trend
Posted by: cry0fan
» RE: dissent and the trend
Posted by: gpm
» "It's the economy,stupid --same same as "it's the white males, stupid"
Posted by: cry0fan
» Fair argument.
Posted by: gpm
» RE: "It's the economy,stupid --same same as "it's the white males, stupid"
Posted by: Phonelady
» Conservatism as identity politics
Posted by: DavidByron
» DLW
Posted by: sausage
» No, he has a beef about the focus of the left.
Posted by: medstudgeek
» The guy's a right wing troll, period.
Posted by: sausage
» as the FauxLeft has defined "rightwing", you are absolutely correct!
Posted by: cry0fan
» Y'know what disturbs me about your florid posts...
Posted by: sausage
» Hmmm...
Posted by: medstudgeek
» Like I said,
Posted by: gpm
» Actually I didn't attack him personally
Posted by: sausage
» RE: Actually I didn't attack him personally
Posted by: gpm
» O.K. I did attack him personally
Posted by: sausage
» RE: O.K. I did attack him personally
Posted by: gpm
» I've got it
Posted by: McJulie
» RE: O.K. I did attack him personally
Posted by: YogiBear
» If you didn't intend to attack him personally
Posted by: DavidByron
» I'm a glad I'm not like you!
Posted by: sausage
» RE: I'm a glad I'm not like you!
Posted by: cry0fan
» RE: I'm a glad I'm not like you!
Posted by: writethiss
» Please be careful with this
Posted by: gpm
» ...so many people all in the same device
Posted by: writethiss
» RE: ...so many people all in the same device
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: ...so many people all in the same device
Posted by: writethiss
» RE: ...so many people all in the same device
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: ...so many people all in the same device
Posted by: gpm
» RE: ...so many people all in the same device
Posted by: writethiss
» RE: ...so many people all in the same device
Posted by: gpm
» RE: I'm a glad I'm not like you!
Posted by: Doug1956
» And if you were to recommend just one of those books?
Posted by: DavidByron
» RE: sausage feels confident it is OK to attack me personally. Why? (was RE: DLW)
Posted by: Asmodeus
» I take issue with cryOfan's gender poltics
Posted by: timebomb734
» RE: I take issue with cryOfan's gender poltics
Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: sausage feels confident it is OK to attack me personally. Why? (was RE: DLW)
Posted by: Phonelady
» Attacking prejudicial attitudes are central to the lefty view
Posted by: DavidByron
» RE: when did Leftist Activists Stop Attacking the OverClass and Start Attacking Everyday Males?
Posted by: Jim Pivonka
Comments are closed-
White males
Posted by: mandiwrite on Apr 12, 2006 5:14 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: mandiwrite on Apr 12, 2006 5:14 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm posting a new comment instead of a reply because for some reason, I don't click thru on reply.
In Europe the left loves white males? Oh no, you've got that one wrong. In Europe, white males love the left. And although there are still plenty of sexist males in Europe, Europe has, on the whole, moved further than the USA away from sexism. I speak as an observer, by the way - I live in the developing world, where raw sexism is still very real. And because of that, I know that until we are all free, none of us are free. From my own country's experience, I can tell you this: if you've been part of an oppressive group, don't expect to be loved. Tough tackie if you were always really a nice guy; you've got to change yourself. And some, at least, of Europe's men have done that, from what I see.
In Europe the left loves white males? Oh no, you've got that one wrong. In Europe, white males love the left. And although there are still plenty of sexist males in Europe, Europe has, on the whole, moved further than the USA away from sexism. I speak as an observer, by the way - I live in the developing world, where raw sexism is still very real. And because of that, I know that until we are all free, none of us are free. From my own country's experience, I can tell you this: if you've been part of an oppressive group, don't expect to be loved. Tough tackie if you were always really a nice guy; you've got to change yourself. And some, at least, of Europe's men have done that, from what I see.
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Slashdot is not the New York Times
Posted by: drouse on Apr 12, 2006 5:31 AM
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Posted by: drouse on Apr 12, 2006 5:31 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Slashdot is no more the New York Times than Fark.com is, and it has no pretensions of being the Times. The website is simply Rob Malda's blog about technology and "stuff."
The site is, in fact, much closer to Fark.com than the Times -- consider the sarcastic headlines, the high school to freshman college atmosphere (not just sexism), and the duplicate articles - spelling mistakes - horrible grammar. The site also does very little original reporting, another difference between it and the Times - Slashdot is an aggregator, again, like Fark.com
Amd I certainly don't think a serious news source would have gone for a "OMG Ponies" theme for April Fool's Day. I surprised you didn't mention that, by the way, since it wasn't just sexist but showed a profound ignorance of women and how they think and behave.
Slashdot is the talk radio of tech news, with Linux replacing the Republican party as the favorite sacred cowl.
To me, ArsTechnica is a much better technical site. It has actual articles with real technical content and doesn't require the discussion boards to make it entertaining.
The site is, in fact, much closer to Fark.com than the Times -- consider the sarcastic headlines, the high school to freshman college atmosphere (not just sexism), and the duplicate articles - spelling mistakes - horrible grammar. The site also does very little original reporting, another difference between it and the Times - Slashdot is an aggregator, again, like Fark.com
Amd I certainly don't think a serious news source would have gone for a "OMG Ponies" theme for April Fool's Day. I surprised you didn't mention that, by the way, since it wasn't just sexist but showed a profound ignorance of women and how they think and behave.
Slashdot is the talk radio of tech news, with Linux replacing the Republican party as the favorite sacred cowl.
To me, ArsTechnica is a much better technical site. It has actual articles with real technical content and doesn't require the discussion boards to make it entertaining.
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» Fark.com
Posted by: Allison
Comments are closed-
Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: medstudgeek on Apr 12, 2006 5:51 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: medstudgeek on Apr 12, 2006 5:51 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm going to respond to this because it's something I've been thinking about for a while...
The real problem is that nerds don't get enough sex. (Or relationships.) No, really. Girls won't give us the time of day in junior high or later and it tends to create a certain bitterness. 'A lack of understanding about the way women work'? Well, um, yeah, we don't get girlfriends until we're 20, so naturally we don't understand how women are.
Is it any surprise that any woman in technology story is inevitably accompanied by immature comments about whether she is single or not? We all wish more women like that existed, but they don't, and I have come to the sad conclusion (after years of thinking otherwise) that they never will.
Besides, objectifying as it may seem to be referred to as a 'geek girl' rather than as a 'media geek' who happens to be female, you have to realize that they are at least somewhat interested in the contents of your cortex (or else they'd just be looking for the latest bimbo, right?).
Hey, look, if we were football fans, we'd be hurling insults and driving you away.
The real problem is that nerds don't get enough sex. (Or relationships.) No, really. Girls won't give us the time of day in junior high or later and it tends to create a certain bitterness. 'A lack of understanding about the way women work'? Well, um, yeah, we don't get girlfriends until we're 20, so naturally we don't understand how women are.
Is it any surprise that any woman in technology story is inevitably accompanied by immature comments about whether she is single or not? We all wish more women like that existed, but they don't, and I have come to the sad conclusion (after years of thinking otherwise) that they never will.
Besides, objectifying as it may seem to be referred to as a 'geek girl' rather than as a 'media geek' who happens to be female, you have to realize that they are at least somewhat interested in the contents of your cortex (or else they'd just be looking for the latest bimbo, right?).
Hey, look, if we were football fans, we'd be hurling insults and driving you away.
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» RE: Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: ttmrichter
» RE: Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: churchofone
» RE: Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: klaatukev
» RE: Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: pomes
» Speaking as a former "nice guy"
Posted by: RobG
» RE: Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: Sexism, Slashdot, and nerds
Posted by: surrealsunshine
» RE: It kind of cuts both ways
Posted by: Pseudo Morals
Comments are closed-
I thought the article was great
Posted by: klaatukev on Apr 12, 2006 6:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: klaatukev on Apr 12, 2006 6:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I laughed my white, male, feminist ass off when I read the original article. Comments about your looks should obviously be taken with a grain of salt (especially on Slashdot), although I will say that there are many men who find that intelligence and wit contribute more to "hotness" or "gorgeousness" than physical appearance alone.
For instance, Janeane Garofolo had and still has legions of male feminist fans who think she is beautiful both on the inside and outside. In fact, my fiancee sometimes gets irritated because my attraction patterns gravitate more toward biting sarcasm and intelligence than raw physical looks. She claims that she would be less worried if I would just drool over Jessica Simpson and Britney Spears like most other guys.
Maureen Dowd, the columnist for the New York Times, probably has suffered from the same sort of battles between knuckle-dragging men who resent her intelligence and feminist men who resent that they are often painted with the same brush as the knuckle-draggers.
Ms. Newitz, you are an insightful and humorous writer (The DRM comment which seemed to elude many of the Slashdotters nearly knocked me out of my chair in laughter). Admittedly, your looks should not be a factor in determining whether or not you have a fanbase or credibility.
But, I must say that I also feel bad for the gentleman who felt he needed to apologize for saying you were "gorgeous." It's not his fault that there are ignorant dumbasses out there who would judge you and your work solely on the basis of appearance. Your indignation should be directed at those who would insult you from that ignorance, and those who would only compliment you because of your looks; not at everyone who would discuss that particular topic at all.
Regardless, if you keep writing, I'll do my best to keep reading.
Shameless blog plug: In Need of Therapy
For instance, Janeane Garofolo had and still has legions of male feminist fans who think she is beautiful both on the inside and outside. In fact, my fiancee sometimes gets irritated because my attraction patterns gravitate more toward biting sarcasm and intelligence than raw physical looks. She claims that she would be less worried if I would just drool over Jessica Simpson and Britney Spears like most other guys.
Maureen Dowd, the columnist for the New York Times, probably has suffered from the same sort of battles between knuckle-dragging men who resent her intelligence and feminist men who resent that they are often painted with the same brush as the knuckle-draggers.
Ms. Newitz, you are an insightful and humorous writer (The DRM comment which seemed to elude many of the Slashdotters nearly knocked me out of my chair in laughter). Admittedly, your looks should not be a factor in determining whether or not you have a fanbase or credibility.
But, I must say that I also feel bad for the gentleman who felt he needed to apologize for saying you were "gorgeous." It's not his fault that there are ignorant dumbasses out there who would judge you and your work solely on the basis of appearance. Your indignation should be directed at those who would insult you from that ignorance, and those who would only compliment you because of your looks; not at everyone who would discuss that particular topic at all.
Regardless, if you keep writing, I'll do my best to keep reading.
Shameless blog plug: In Need of Therapy
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» Time for me to get yelled at
Posted by: medstudgeek
» Roger this post.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: I thought the article was great
Posted by: BlueTigress
» Janeane Garofolo
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Who's Sexist?
Posted by: smedrick on Apr 12, 2006 6:30 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: smedrick on Apr 12, 2006 6:30 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isn't it also sexist to claim this is behavior dominated by males? People (both male and female) are fascinated by sex...it dominates our lives. You can't blame anyone for following their own natural impulses to fixate on looks and sexual desires.
As far as Slashdot is concerned, I think most of the registered regulars there are very arrogant, mostly intelligent, and rarely PC. They're not afraid of offending anyone because tech nerds aren't concerned with such trivial constructs. When there's a beefy topic, they'll beat the dead horse with expertise and fanaticism. When the article is void of any form of intellectual heft, they turn their attention elsewhere. This article you cited as an example is a case of the latter. There was nothing of interest in the article to discuss, so they fixated on the author.
A more secure person would have taken the "gorgeous" comment as a compliment and brushed the rest off. Instead you chastize a group of people for participating in a conversation we all have on a daily basis. The only people keeping sexism alive today are those who claim to rally against it.
As far as Slashdot is concerned, I think most of the registered regulars there are very arrogant, mostly intelligent, and rarely PC. They're not afraid of offending anyone because tech nerds aren't concerned with such trivial constructs. When there's a beefy topic, they'll beat the dead horse with expertise and fanaticism. When the article is void of any form of intellectual heft, they turn their attention elsewhere. This article you cited as an example is a case of the latter. There was nothing of interest in the article to discuss, so they fixated on the author.
A more secure person would have taken the "gorgeous" comment as a compliment and brushed the rest off. Instead you chastize a group of people for participating in a conversation we all have on a daily basis. The only people keeping sexism alive today are those who claim to rally against it.
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» RE: Who's Sexist?
Posted by: Pseudo Morals
» RE: Who's Sexist?
Posted by: chomsky
» RE: Who's Sexist?
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
Comments are closed-
Nerds & Misogyny
Posted by: supercrisp on Apr 12, 2006 7:23 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: supercrisp on Apr 12, 2006 7:23 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In my experience nerds tend to be just as misogynist as other men and even more so. Another poster points out the economy involved: men want women, nerds are unattractive, sour grapes. Men are taught a crazy sense of entitlement. Did anyone else see the moron in the news “striking” up on the roof of his house because his wife wouldn’t screw him.
I track this back to what I believe is the fact that Americans are the biggest babies, most spoiled, bratty people on the face of our planet. Our sense of entitlement presently and in the past extended to a continent or to the entire life of another human being (slavery, capital punishment), to the government of foreign nations, to those nations’ produce, etc. So it’s no surprise that almost all men here think they have part ownership in all womens’ cooches. It’s part of our propaganda, in the same way that “Baby on board” often translates to “Get the hell out the way.”
On the other hand, it annoys me when I speak to a woman and she thinks I’m trying to get into her pants. But it’s no real biggy, after all, that’s what most men are doing to women most of the time. It must get pretty damn old. I mean, I’m annoyed because I can talk to another person who just happens to have a vagina without my motives being questioned, yet women face this same issue all the time: when, they must wonder, does someone really give a damn about me and not my sex?
I think we’d all do a damn sight better to acknowledge our desires as our own and not demand that others gratify them for us.
I track this back to what I believe is the fact that Americans are the biggest babies, most spoiled, bratty people on the face of our planet. Our sense of entitlement presently and in the past extended to a continent or to the entire life of another human being (slavery, capital punishment), to the government of foreign nations, to those nations’ produce, etc. So it’s no surprise that almost all men here think they have part ownership in all womens’ cooches. It’s part of our propaganda, in the same way that “Baby on board” often translates to “Get the hell out the way.”
On the other hand, it annoys me when I speak to a woman and she thinks I’m trying to get into her pants. But it’s no real biggy, after all, that’s what most men are doing to women most of the time. It must get pretty damn old. I mean, I’m annoyed because I can talk to another person who just happens to have a vagina without my motives being questioned, yet women face this same issue all the time: when, they must wonder, does someone really give a damn about me and not my sex?
I think we’d all do a damn sight better to acknowledge our desires as our own and not demand that others gratify them for us.
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» RE: Husband on strike
Posted by: BlueTigress
» Alternet's leftist collectivism is all about demanding that others gratify one's desires
Posted by: Torgo
Comments are closed-
geeks not knowing what to make of smart women? no surprise there
Posted by: bshaurette on Apr 12, 2006 8:15 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: bshaurette on Apr 12, 2006 8:15 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a female programmer, I sympathize - it's a challenge being a woman in a male-dominated industry. I'm a regular Slashdot reader, and it definitely bothers me to see the conversations take such a misogynistic turn every once in a while. But I don't know if I would take it so personally - I think a lot of the guys at the core of tech culture, the guys that make up the bulk of the Slashdot audience, are still those socially inept geeks who haven't learned to respect smart women. They don't know what to make of us, so they fall back to sexism. It used to bother me a lot, but there are more and more women entering tech fields every day. Our time is coming, it's just not here quite yet.
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» RE: geeks not knowing what to make of smart women? no surprise there
Posted by: YogiBear
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Slashdot...
Posted by: algorithm_x on Apr 12, 2006 8:17 AM
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Posted by: algorithm_x on Apr 12, 2006 8:17 AM
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Has become a parody of itself. Next time you read an article, watch for the tin-man (Uberg33k, more 1337 than you) the cowardly lion (appologist, usually passive agressive, always dressed tough)and the scarecrow (he'll opine over the lack of linux posts, and condemn people for posting duplicates).
I use it purely to get news, and not very much at that, as google does a nice job of rounding up news articles. Oh of course I'm here a lot as well.
I use it purely to get news, and not very much at that, as google does a nice job of rounding up news articles. Oh of course I'm here a lot as well.
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mommyfirst
Posted by: pushing50 on Apr 12, 2006 8:34 AM
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Posted by: pushing50 on Apr 12, 2006 8:34 AM
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As a newcomer to the internet, I have not yet read slashdot, and until I can get my computer to work a little better ( I think there are too many antivirus/antispyware thingies trying to run at the same time), I am unlikely to do so. However, I have a couple of general thoughts about the male/techie phenomenon.
First, it is in the enlightened self interest of the industry to make it easy and comfortable for the female 51% of the world's population to use high technology resources. More customers means more money, right? The people who lead the high tech industry should be fostering a female friendly environment for the accessing of all computer-related stuff as fast and effectively as they can.
Secondly, as a long time dater (before marriage) of the most extreme geeks and nerds (because smart is sexy, of course) I can attest that geeks/nerds are no different from other males in their minute by minute obsession with s*x. The change these days is that there now exist all these fora for the written recording of this inevitable obsession. We seem to be newly privy to sexually fixated fantasies and musings which in prior decades would have been confided to a diary, a confessor, or the uncaring silence of one's room. I maintain that all fellows think this way about women and sex, and always have, but the bloggers now put their ideas into writing for us to be appalled at. That doesn't make it right or good, but it helps to place it in perspective for me. The intellectual gifts of the female they are considering is entirely irrelevant when the hormones are in action. In the words of my favorite man on the passage through his field of vision of an oddly dressed but well endowed female; "She had clothes on?".
Women who are tech savvy are a great inspiration and all power to you! To the author of this article, don't lose heart, keep up the good work, laugh at the guys and be glad we are not slaves to our gonads to this extent!
First, it is in the enlightened self interest of the industry to make it easy and comfortable for the female 51% of the world's population to use high technology resources. More customers means more money, right? The people who lead the high tech industry should be fostering a female friendly environment for the accessing of all computer-related stuff as fast and effectively as they can.
Secondly, as a long time dater (before marriage) of the most extreme geeks and nerds (because smart is sexy, of course) I can attest that geeks/nerds are no different from other males in their minute by minute obsession with s*x. The change these days is that there now exist all these fora for the written recording of this inevitable obsession. We seem to be newly privy to sexually fixated fantasies and musings which in prior decades would have been confided to a diary, a confessor, or the uncaring silence of one's room. I maintain that all fellows think this way about women and sex, and always have, but the bloggers now put their ideas into writing for us to be appalled at. That doesn't make it right or good, but it helps to place it in perspective for me. The intellectual gifts of the female they are considering is entirely irrelevant when the hormones are in action. In the words of my favorite man on the passage through his field of vision of an oddly dressed but well endowed female; "She had clothes on?".
Women who are tech savvy are a great inspiration and all power to you! To the author of this article, don't lose heart, keep up the good work, laugh at the guys and be glad we are not slaves to our gonads to this extent!
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the best response
Posted by: lorijh on Apr 12, 2006 8:35 AM
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Posted by: lorijh on Apr 12, 2006 8:35 AM
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The IT world has always been a male bastion (even though women have been right there all along, of course). Part of the appeal of your columns and articles since you first came on the scene -- besides displaying your savvy intellect and wicked humor -- is your perspective and voice as a woman. The reason this is so effective is precisely because you're in an industry that is so predominantly male.
Despite all of our technological and social advances, it's disappointing to see such clear evidence that some age-old sexist dynamics persist. I guess there will always be men (boys?) who seem to think they are absolutely entitled to pass judgment on a woman's physical characteristics as though that is the ultimate benchmark of credibility. Your choice to take a step back as a professional journalist and consider all of this in a sociological light, then write about it rather than take offense, is absolutely the best response.
Despite all of our technological and social advances, it's disappointing to see such clear evidence that some age-old sexist dynamics persist. I guess there will always be men (boys?) who seem to think they are absolutely entitled to pass judgment on a woman's physical characteristics as though that is the ultimate benchmark of credibility. Your choice to take a step back as a professional journalist and consider all of this in a sociological light, then write about it rather than take offense, is absolutely the best response.
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» I wonder ....
Posted by: gpm
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why am i crazy?
Posted by: cry0fan on Apr 12, 2006 8:45 AM
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Posted by: cry0fan on Apr 12, 2006 8:45 AM
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cuz i don't adhere to one of the two prepackaged, divisive faux-ideologies handed down to us from on high?
gimme some thorazine, baby!
gimme some thorazine, baby!
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» RE: why am i crazy?
Posted by: cry0fan
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why am i crazy?
Posted by: cry0fan on Apr 12, 2006 8:45 AM
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Posted by: cry0fan on Apr 12, 2006 8:45 AM
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cuz i don't adhere to one of the two prepackaged, divisive faux-ideologies handed down to us from on high?
gimme some thorazine, baby!
gimme some thorazine, baby!
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Improper word usage
Posted by: surrealsunshine on Apr 12, 2006 8:50 AM
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Posted by: surrealsunshine on Apr 12, 2006 8:50 AM
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http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sexism
Sexism does not include things such as commenting on someone's appearance even though they really, reall want you to comment on their acticle instead. Cheapening the meaning of words in the hopes of making a point is not a good road to start down. Harrasment and sexism are practically meaningless at this point because they're thrown around to describe any sort of behaviour that is "unacceptable." Did slashdot say not to post if you're female? Did anyone say that nothing you wrote is valid because you're female? Or did your feelings get hurt (which is perfectly normal when random strangers are evaluating your appearance in a public forum) and you became defensive?
It's good to see (mostly) rational debate on social topics, but lets be realistic about what qualifies as a real issue.
Sexism does not include things such as commenting on someone's appearance even though they really, reall want you to comment on their acticle instead. Cheapening the meaning of words in the hopes of making a point is not a good road to start down. Harrasment and sexism are practically meaningless at this point because they're thrown around to describe any sort of behaviour that is "unacceptable." Did slashdot say not to post if you're female? Did anyone say that nothing you wrote is valid because you're female? Or did your feelings get hurt (which is perfectly normal when random strangers are evaluating your appearance in a public forum) and you became defensive?
It's good to see (mostly) rational debate on social topics, but lets be realistic about what qualifies as a real issue.
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one kernel of truth in cry0fan's rant- dismantling of empathy
Posted by: thistleblower on Apr 12, 2006 8:50 AM
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Posted by: thistleblower on Apr 12, 2006 8:50 AM
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one truth stated in cry0fan's rant is the idea that the people have been turned against each other in order to nullify their influence. It's documented and if you look around, very real, and the one thing that is keeping the left from gaining a foothold with average people. I am a leftie living among conservative types in a working class neighborhood in a small city in the midwest. their perception of lefties is (1) they're communists (and the corollary that communism is tantamount to satanism), (2) they're anti-american values (not true, by far the opposite in my opinion) and (3) they are smug elitist bookworm city slickers who like to patronize plain folk and dress them down with their crazy ideas. I think there is some truth to that belief. My own family is composed of "plain folk" and I have been called a "city slicker," literally, on a couple occasions. I have been snobs to them on occasion because I get tired of their conventional thinking and their xenophobia. Still, I do what I can to build commonalities (with my neighbors- my family is another issue entirely), and we find we agree on issues in many ways. We all think more jobs should be kept in America, for instance. Interestingly, we all agree on buying local when possible, somthing I would have never guessed had I not asked. Truly meaningful, lasting change will not occur in this country until we all do the same.
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» Cry0fan has a lot of good points.
Posted by: medstudgeek
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SO do youhave issues with your looks?
Posted by: popsicle67 on Apr 12, 2006 9:16 AM
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Posted by: popsicle67 on Apr 12, 2006 9:16 AM
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That is what I wonder. Just because somebody recognizes that you have that quality called attractiveness does not mean everything else about you means nothing to him. You are going to have a rotten life expecting men to only see your skills as a writer.
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» Would you ask this question
Posted by: gpm
» RE: SO do youhave issues with your looks?
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
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slashdot is...slashdot
Posted by: jessicalh on Apr 12, 2006 9:18 AM
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Posted by: jessicalh on Apr 12, 2006 9:18 AM
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I can't say that as a queer person with lefty leanings I have ever found slashdot comfortable or "on" -- in fact, I can pretty much count on its comment rating system to elevate people who value the local consensus and whose politics are what would be expected at almost any IT water cooler. That said I learned a lot from slashdot about how a rating moderated system (I'm sure there's a correct term which I'm not using) can work, its strengths and weakness. DailyKos and Slashdot together present a fascinating picture of what happens when the posts are moderated by ratings or recommendations and there are more posts than web real estate. Slashdot is _fascinating_ sometimes, but I don't expect community there, or any uncomfortable recognition of other people's realities.
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The Majority Report
Posted by: Orwells_nightmare on Apr 12, 2006 9:35 AM
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Posted by: Orwells_nightmare on Apr 12, 2006 9:35 AM
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A similar thing happens to Janeane Garofalo over on the Majority Report. Last time I read it, she had a core of fans who visited the blog and basically spent the whole show discussing how fine she was. They were answered by the detractors who thought she was the original dog-faced girl. Neither of them have much to do with the blog.
I suppose it's perpetuated by a tacit assumption that the said blogger should be flattered by the attention and take it as a compliment. I think the odd frivolous comment like 'gorgeous nerd'(incidentally, sounds like a good nic' to me =) are basically harmless, but when they swallow up the whole thread, it's just dull, repetitive and off-topic.
I suppose it's perpetuated by a tacit assumption that the said blogger should be flattered by the attention and take it as a compliment. I think the odd frivolous comment like 'gorgeous nerd'(incidentally, sounds like a good nic' to me =) are basically harmless, but when they swallow up the whole thread, it's just dull, repetitive and off-topic.
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What a silly article
Posted by: hockeysk8 on Apr 12, 2006 10:13 AM
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Posted by: hockeysk8 on Apr 12, 2006 10:13 AM
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I read AlterNet for its very well presented arguments but this article is worse than most comments that are posted on Slashdot! I can't believe that the AlterNet editors allowed this poorly written piece on their site ... so poorly written I don't even know where to begin.
Nevertheless, referring to all males as "dicks" isn't going to win you much sympothy, Annalee. And are you serious? You are upset over comments on one of the most popular open forums on the Internet? Did you know that ANYONE can comment on Slashdot and most often somewhat anonymously?!? This is hardly the halls of academia!
With that being said, I read Slashdot and enjoy it. However, I put the comment filter on the highest threshold which usually does a pretty good job of weeding out the less than intelligent comments. Reading the comments in this fashion I find the Slashdot crowd to be quite liberal and their viewpoints refreshingly enlightened.
Nevertheless, referring to all males as "dicks" isn't going to win you much sympothy, Annalee. And are you serious? You are upset over comments on one of the most popular open forums on the Internet? Did you know that ANYONE can comment on Slashdot and most often somewhat anonymously?!? This is hardly the halls of academia!
With that being said, I read Slashdot and enjoy it. However, I put the comment filter on the highest threshold which usually does a pretty good job of weeding out the less than intelligent comments. Reading the comments in this fashion I find the Slashdot crowd to be quite liberal and their viewpoints refreshingly enlightened.
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Leftism in the USA
Posted by: squattyroo on Apr 12, 2006 10:26 AM
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Posted by: squattyroo on Apr 12, 2006 10:26 AM
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One clear distinction between left movements in the US & in Europe is that the US is NOT Europe. Thus, the appeal of leftist political thought, parties, movements to white males in Europe arises from a different cultural/social matrix as this appeal would have to white American males. To put it bluntly, in the US, class IS race.
Until fairly recently, European socities have been relatively homogeneous: race & ethnicity were not the dragons they have been in the US, at least until the wogs started moving to the metropole in large numbers. As a previous poster noted, leftism (by which we mean some sort of egalitarianism)appeals to white European males in ways that threaten white American males' sense of identity & stauts. Even a cursory examination of US history tells us that white males have always resisted class solidarity with non-whites, from the Populist movment on out. The New Dealers, in fact, had to de-racinate their program in order for it to become effective. There has never been a "Labor" party in the US--unlike in most European states--, nor even a convincingly "Liberal" party; up until 5 minutes ago the Democrats were the party of segregation in the South & lily white unions in the North.
So, "identity politics" has ALWAYS been practiced in the USA; for the oppressed, "identity politics" was the way to power. That the american left should be steeped in identity politics is as natural as springtime, tho springtime eventually turns to other seasons.
That said, white European males--so beloved of one of the previous posters--have never had to affirm their status in the racial/ethnic slop that is US culture. The conflation of race & class in the American mind therefore gives rise to all kinds of barbarous chauvinisms, as evidenced by the rantings of the poster above.
Until fairly recently, European socities have been relatively homogeneous: race & ethnicity were not the dragons they have been in the US, at least until the wogs started moving to the metropole in large numbers. As a previous poster noted, leftism (by which we mean some sort of egalitarianism)appeals to white European males in ways that threaten white American males' sense of identity & stauts. Even a cursory examination of US history tells us that white males have always resisted class solidarity with non-whites, from the Populist movment on out. The New Dealers, in fact, had to de-racinate their program in order for it to become effective. There has never been a "Labor" party in the US--unlike in most European states--, nor even a convincingly "Liberal" party; up until 5 minutes ago the Democrats were the party of segregation in the South & lily white unions in the North.
So, "identity politics" has ALWAYS been practiced in the USA; for the oppressed, "identity politics" was the way to power. That the american left should be steeped in identity politics is as natural as springtime, tho springtime eventually turns to other seasons.
That said, white European males--so beloved of one of the previous posters--have never had to affirm their status in the racial/ethnic slop that is US culture. The conflation of race & class in the American mind therefore gives rise to all kinds of barbarous chauvinisms, as evidenced by the rantings of the poster above.
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» RE: Leftism in the USA
Posted by: Seabrook
» To what extent was the racism manufactured?
Posted by: DavidByron
» RE: To what extent was the racism manufactured?
Posted by: squattyroo
» Manufacturing Consent...
Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: Manufacturing Consent...
Posted by: squattyroo
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And Now For Some Solutions
Posted by: trapplean on Apr 12, 2006 10:44 AM
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Posted by: trapplean on Apr 12, 2006 10:44 AM
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Annalee, I am glad you wrote this article, and that AlterNet published it.
I agree with medstudgeek above - a lack of intimate knowledge of and experience with women does encourage this sort of behavior from geek men. Sure, we could point fingers at boys or girls, in high school or college, whether they are popular or geeky/nerdy or not...but I think we can all agree the problem exists. We can also probably agree that a logical solution is to increase the real life experience the geek guys have with women. I'm not a big fan of problems. I'd rather solve them than bemoan them, so I offer some suggestions below.
Annalee mentions smart women (and men) getting in the blogging face of men who perpetuate these behaviors in places such as Slashdot. This sends the message that the sexist behavior is not acceptable, and the message is an important one. Of course, this also merely treats the symptom, and does nothing to eliminate the source of the behavior.
Now, rather than point fingers at the various guilty parties, as an intelligent female geek, I'm going to do what is in my power to solve the problem. First and foremost, I encourage other women and girls to develop and pride themselves on their intelligence over their looks. Physical beauty is great--I'm an attractive woman, and my looks certainly do open doors for me, opportunities that I use my intelligence to take advantage of--but it is transitory, and by itself, it is ultimately of little value. As a child, I did not know if I would be pretty when I grew up, but I knew that I alone had the power to make myself smart.
My goal has always been to push my intellectual limits at every turn, and now I seek to encourage other girls to do the same, including (especially) my two daughters. Because any woman can get an MRS degree, but then really, what does she have, if her entire identity is tied up in the man who married her for her fleeting good lucks? I've dated both men and women, and in either case, intelligent partners make better partners. Add good looks and well all the better, but in the long term, I care a whole lot more about what is inside the person's head. More women need to realize that smart is the sexiest of all, and I'm on a mission to help them see this. ;)
So what of the men? They need help, so I'm trying to help them. My husband and I are producing a podcast, called Intellectual Icebergs. It's a podcast for geeks, by geeks, covering both hard and soft science and tech topics. One of my pet areas, and an area I'm devoting numerous segments to, is dating tips for geeks. I've spent over a year now researching the dating problems geeks (more so the men, but also the women) encounter, and providing solutions to these problems. A few geeks at a time, I'm trying to make a difference, to modify behaviors and help create relationship opportunities for a group of people who on the average, have social skills that were left behind in their pursuit of their intellectual endeavors.
We're smart, though, we geeks, and we're often very internally driven to excel. Given the tools, given some encouragement and a little caring advice, we can and do change. It just takes a few of us to recognize the need, stop pointing fingers, and start creating solutions.
~ Tiffany Rapplean
www.intellectualicebergs.org
I agree with medstudgeek above - a lack of intimate knowledge of and experience with women does encourage this sort of behavior from geek men. Sure, we could point fingers at boys or girls, in high school or college, whether they are popular or geeky/nerdy or not...but I think we can all agree the problem exists. We can also probably agree that a logical solution is to increase the real life experience the geek guys have with women. I'm not a big fan of problems. I'd rather solve them than bemoan them, so I offer some suggestions below.
Annalee mentions smart women (and men) getting in the blogging face of men who perpetuate these behaviors in places such as Slashdot. This sends the message that the sexist behavior is not acceptable, and the message is an important one. Of course, this also merely treats the symptom, and does nothing to eliminate the source of the behavior.
Now, rather than point fingers at the various guilty parties, as an intelligent female geek, I'm going to do what is in my power to solve the problem. First and foremost, I encourage other women and girls to develop and pride themselves on their intelligence over their looks. Physical beauty is great--I'm an attractive woman, and my looks certainly do open doors for me, opportunities that I use my intelligence to take advantage of--but it is transitory, and by itself, it is ultimately of little value. As a child, I did not know if I would be pretty when I grew up, but I knew that I alone had the power to make myself smart.
My goal has always been to push my intellectual limits at every turn, and now I seek to encourage other girls to do the same, including (especially) my two daughters. Because any woman can get an MRS degree, but then really, what does she have, if her entire identity is tied up in the man who married her for her fleeting good lucks? I've dated both men and women, and in either case, intelligent partners make better partners. Add good looks and well all the better, but in the long term, I care a whole lot more about what is inside the person's head. More women need to realize that smart is the sexiest of all, and I'm on a mission to help them see this. ;)
So what of the men? They need help, so I'm trying to help them. My husband and I are producing a podcast, called Intellectual Icebergs. It's a podcast for geeks, by geeks, covering both hard and soft science and tech topics. One of my pet areas, and an area I'm devoting numerous segments to, is dating tips for geeks. I've spent over a year now researching the dating problems geeks (more so the men, but also the women) encounter, and providing solutions to these problems. A few geeks at a time, I'm trying to make a difference, to modify behaviors and help create relationship opportunities for a group of people who on the average, have social skills that were left behind in their pursuit of their intellectual endeavors.
We're smart, though, we geeks, and we're often very internally driven to excel. Given the tools, given some encouragement and a little caring advice, we can and do change. It just takes a few of us to recognize the need, stop pointing fingers, and start creating solutions.
~ Tiffany Rapplean
www.intellectualicebergs.org
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» RE: And Now For Some Solutions
Posted by: MediaSex
» RE: And Now For Some Solutions
Posted by: trapplean
» RE: And Now For Some Solutions
Posted by: Kym525
» ???
Posted by: gpm
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Fight evil where you find it
Posted by: writethiss on Apr 12, 2006 10:57 AM
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Posted by: writethiss on Apr 12, 2006 10:57 AM
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The overclass in this country/era is corporate -- their interest is in stripping the rights and power from individuals to ensure greater profitability. (ie. The destruction of democracy would suit them nicely.) That is a very real threat, probably the greatest threat of our time, and sure it would be cool to enlist the support of a vast powerful demographic – white guys. But here's the rub: all government agencies and most corporate hierarchies are controlled by white guys. And they’re feathering their nests by demolishing democracy. But that's not all: many of these same white guys are also actively working to secure their white guy interests by restricting the rights and opportunities of anyone who is not a white guy: ban abortion so women are again hostages of unwanted pregnancies and forced into greater dependency; abolish affirmative action so white guy's kids get to stay on top, etc... The effects of sexism and racism are real: they are poverty and powerlessness -- welcome to the underclass you're so hip to. The problem with the underclass relying on white males to help bolster the left is kind of like the inmates in a prison asking the guards to help them start a riot. What the hell's in it for them?
For the left, there really is just one solution: Fight evil where you find it.
For the left, there really is just one solution: Fight evil where you find it.
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» Frontman fallacy, Prejudicial nonsense
Posted by: DavidByron
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Always Consider the source dear
Posted by: saywhat? on Apr 12, 2006 12:19 PM
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Posted by: saywhat? on Apr 12, 2006 12:19 PM
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Are these the kind of nerds with horned rim glasses and in love with sodapop and mcdonalds? eeeewwwwwwuuggggggg..........demand a picture with each dis!!!!
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» RE: Always Consider the source dear
Posted by: pomes
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feminist dogma run amok
Posted by: defiant on Apr 12, 2006 1:43 PM
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Posted by: defiant on Apr 12, 2006 1:43 PM
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So, a few geeks online have gone too far when they issue an opinion a woman wouldn't like? The hyper-feminists we have to endure in nearly every aspect of our newspeak world now want to castrate internet geeks, too? I guess freedom of speech only applies to women like you who are bashing men - everything else is unfortunately slow "cultural evolution". Whatever.
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Boingboing less sexist than /.?
Posted by: Praxis on Apr 12, 2006 1:56 PM
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Posted by: Praxis on Apr 12, 2006 1:56 PM
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I would read other geek culture blogs like BoingBoing, where the male editors are feminists and Xeni Jardin knows why it sucks that some creeps care more about her ass than the political op-ed she just wrote for the Los Angeles Times.
I'd never heard of the site, but figured I'd check it out since I generally enjoy Annalee Newitz's schtick and she gave it her imprimatur. I saw coverage of a mathematical equation for the perfect female ass (the formula is (S+C) x (B+F)/T = V, by the way), lots of references to using marshmellow "peeps" to hid taboo body parts (with pictures of appropriately accoutered nekkid wymyn), and a blurb about a female at the recent French protests undressed up like the bare-bosomed subject of Eugène Delacroix's "Liberty Leading the People." Personally, I thought the site was reasonably entertaining and wasn't offended by any of it, but I searched the entire page for a reference to 'Linux' and wasn't able to get past 'lin' before Firefox beeped at me. I bookmarked it, but it isn't going to replace Slashdot for my daily dose of geek news & commentary.
Frankly, I am pretty impressed by the quality of much of the commentary on Slashdot. Most of the entries, even by Anonymous Cowards, are funny or interesting or both. But apparently the readership is 98.3% male, at least according to April Fool's edition where they tried to gussy up the site in pink with bullets like " OMG Ponies!" to "widen our appeal to these less active demographics." Now that was sexist and puerile (and funny to me).
We might wish it were different, but many hetero-sexual males are curious about what female writers they read look like, for whatever reason. That doesn't mean we HAVE to make disparaging or offensive references to writers' appearances, but I've probably 'Google Imaged' most of the female commentators on Alternet (and FWIW I think Annalee, Lakshmi & Molly are HOT!)
I'd never heard of the site, but figured I'd check it out since I generally enjoy Annalee Newitz's schtick and she gave it her imprimatur. I saw coverage of a mathematical equation for the perfect female ass (the formula is (S+C) x (B+F)/T = V, by the way), lots of references to using marshmellow "peeps" to hid taboo body parts (with pictures of appropriately accoutered nekkid wymyn), and a blurb about a female at the recent French protests undressed up like the bare-bosomed subject of Eugène Delacroix's "Liberty Leading the People." Personally, I thought the site was reasonably entertaining and wasn't offended by any of it, but I searched the entire page for a reference to 'Linux' and wasn't able to get past 'lin' before Firefox beeped at me. I bookmarked it, but it isn't going to replace Slashdot for my daily dose of geek news & commentary.
Frankly, I am pretty impressed by the quality of much of the commentary on Slashdot. Most of the entries, even by Anonymous Cowards, are funny or interesting or both. But apparently the readership is 98.3% male, at least according to April Fool's edition where they tried to gussy up the site in pink with bullets like " OMG Ponies!" to "widen our appeal to these less active demographics." Now that was sexist and puerile (and funny to me).
We might wish it were different, but many hetero-sexual males are curious about what female writers they read look like, for whatever reason. That doesn't mean we HAVE to make disparaging or offensive references to writers' appearances, but I've probably 'Google Imaged' most of the female commentators on Alternet (and FWIW I think Annalee, Lakshmi & Molly are HOT!)
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Options
Posted by: plover on Apr 12, 2006 2:36 PM
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Posted by: plover on Apr 12, 2006 2:36 PM
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You get bent out of shape by /. trolls? You have a couple of choices that I can see:
1. Leave. Obviously you don't want to do that because you believe /. to be the nerve center of geekdom. But every other option will require you to toughen up a bit.
2. Reply. Sink to the level of the trolls. Defend yourself, call the trolls out, flames on, whatever. But watch out, you could spend your whole life doing this -- there are always more trolls. And remember the warning: "Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics: even if you win, you're still a retard." Cruel, but true.
3. Ignore them. It hurts, though, to watch yourself get dragged through mud on a frequent basis. You can also foe the troll and everyone who feeds him. Publicise your foe list in your journal and the reasons why trolls make it onto your list.
4. Hide. "On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog." Create a non-gendered nickname. Don't announce anything about yourself, lie, claim to have a sex change operation, you could do any number of things. Lord knows the trolls do this all the time. Perhaps just keep it low-key. Starting a post with "As a woman, I think X about the subject" is a great way to inject off-topic sexism into any discussion. It invites sexist replies, while probably not adding anything to your original point.
5. Rant. This story is a good start -- now, if you can get it posted to the front page of /. maybe more people will start thinking about their callous behavior. More people might recognize the trolls. And the more people befoe the trolls, the less power they have.
6. Some of the above. Create multiple accounts, one to bait the trolls, one to present your professional face, and one to rant.
Finally, don't be afraid to cop the "don't take it too seriously, it's just /." attitude. If people call you on it and say "why didn't you reply to that sexist pig?" you could also tell them "he's a troll, he's wasting valuable oxygen that we could use to better the world. I'm not wasting mine on him."
1. Leave. Obviously you don't want to do that because you believe /. to be the nerve center of geekdom. But every other option will require you to toughen up a bit.
2. Reply. Sink to the level of the trolls. Defend yourself, call the trolls out, flames on, whatever. But watch out, you could spend your whole life doing this -- there are always more trolls. And remember the warning: "Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics: even if you win, you're still a retard." Cruel, but true.
3. Ignore them. It hurts, though, to watch yourself get dragged through mud on a frequent basis. You can also foe the troll and everyone who feeds him. Publicise your foe list in your journal and the reasons why trolls make it onto your list.
4. Hide. "On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog." Create a non-gendered nickname. Don't announce anything about yourself, lie, claim to have a sex change operation, you could do any number of things. Lord knows the trolls do this all the time. Perhaps just keep it low-key. Starting a post with "As a woman, I think X about the subject" is a great way to inject off-topic sexism into any discussion. It invites sexist replies, while probably not adding anything to your original point.
5. Rant. This story is a good start -- now, if you can get it posted to the front page of /. maybe more people will start thinking about their callous behavior. More people might recognize the trolls. And the more people befoe the trolls, the less power they have.
6. Some of the above. Create multiple accounts, one to bait the trolls, one to present your professional face, and one to rant.
Finally, don't be afraid to cop the "don't take it too seriously, it's just /." attitude. If people call you on it and say "why didn't you reply to that sexist pig?" you could also tell them "he's a troll, he's wasting valuable oxygen that we could use to better the world. I'm not wasting mine on him."
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» RE: Options
Posted by: YogiBear
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Thanks for this Annalee
Posted by: itripn on Apr 12, 2006 4:07 PM
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Posted by: itripn on Apr 12, 2006 4:07 PM
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As a man with a Wife, Daughter and Mother, and numerous other important women in my life, I thank you for this article. It is well written.
I did find out about you from the /. article you mentioned, and for that I am thankful, because you write wonderfully and about great topics.
Thanks again.
Ron
I did find out about you from the /. article you mentioned, and for that I am thankful, because you write wonderfully and about great topics.
Thanks again.
Ron
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I have never noticed this type of thing on Slashdot
Posted by: russellcole38 on Apr 12, 2006 4:15 PM
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Posted by: russellcole38 on Apr 12, 2006 4:15 PM
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Your article suprises me. I have never noticed any discursive thread comparable in content and considerations to the communications you describe. I have been reading it for a year now, as well as, Digg, and I must say that matters of sexuality have escaped me. Nevertheless, I applaud the fact that you possessed the ability to revise your interpretation of the type of dialogue the site engenders. The tech industry is still predominately male, so I suppose it is not shocking that it fosters the type of sexism you describe. The only thing that troubles me is your conceptualization of human culture as some kind of process of maturation, through which people develop the social-interactive skills to operate according to the standards you envoke. Cultural feminists have long advocated, at least some of them, a seperatist agenda, which procures cultural spaces free of male hegemony, where women would be provided the autonomy necessary to develop a positively valued identities and cultural forms that satisfy women's aesthetic preferences. Therefore, just in passing, you should think in terms of proliferating diversity with respect to culture, where everybody can find a home, rather than attempting to force other identities to conform to your own proclivities.
Russell
Russell
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Please submit picture.
Posted by: douglashoyt on Apr 12, 2006 7:03 PM
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Posted by: douglashoyt on Apr 12, 2006 7:03 PM
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I would like to judge if your ass is too big.
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» RE: Please submit picture.
Posted by: jesme
» You can find it on the internet.
Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: Please submit picture, posted by Douglashoyt.
Posted by: pushing50
» Great question! I'd like to see this debated (perhaps on slashdot?)
Posted by: YogiBear
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Men are boors --- YAWN!
Posted by: Legs on Apr 13, 2006 4:13 AM
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Posted by: Legs on Apr 13, 2006 4:13 AM
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There are a lot of semi-socialized boys and men on Slashdot. This is news? Hell, I thought that the fact that the U.S. was toying with nuking Iran was news. Silly me.
"It appears our long national journey towards complete idiocy is over. We've arrived."
-- http://billmon.org/archives/002375.html
"It appears our long national journey towards complete idiocy is over. We've arrived."
-- http://billmon.org/archives/002375.html
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Roomba Cockfighting?
Posted by: steve-a-saurus on Apr 13, 2006 12:54 PM
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Posted by: steve-a-saurus on Apr 13, 2006 12:54 PM
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How come the Roomba Cockfighting article didn't get this much response? Fighting appliances is far more relevant to life in America...
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there's always digg!
Posted by: presta on Apr 13, 2006 3:05 PM
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Posted by: presta on Apr 13, 2006 3:05 PM
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Judging by the comments, I'd say this got Slashdotted (or something else), but I'll still just throw in that there's always digg, Analee. If you watch diggnation, you know that the kids over there are just plain cool.
Also, as a native of Campbell raised on the Metro, thanks for always having something to look forward to once I'd finished 'Life is Hell,' and Cecil's 'Straight Dope.' You helped turn me into the undergrad (feminist) geek I am today.
-steve
Also, as a native of Campbell raised on the Metro, thanks for always having something to look forward to once I'd finished 'Life is Hell,' and Cecil's 'Straight Dope.' You helped turn me into the undergrad (feminist) geek I am today.
-steve
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Your looks may not be relevant, your sexism is
Posted by: DavidByron on Apr 13, 2006 6:13 PM
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Posted by: DavidByron on Apr 13, 2006 6:13 PM
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If you want to fight for justice you might start by reducing your own prejudices. Your entire article reeks of sexism and anti-male stereotyping. Instead of spending so much time figuring out why men are "dicks", ("is it dickish biology or dickish culture"), I suggest you figure out why you feel the need to insult men in the first place.
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I suppose
Posted by: richardpmendola on Apr 14, 2006 8:43 AM
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Posted by: richardpmendola on Apr 14, 2006 8:43 AM
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You have to have something to write about. I expect, however, that your means of expression and what you express are related. You write like a potty mouth. Wow, cool .
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Building a Class-Based Left
Posted by: medstudgeek on Apr 14, 2006 11:27 AM
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Posted by: medstudgeek on Apr 14, 2006 11:27 AM
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This may be a little offtopic but I see this topic coming up over and over again on recent Alternet discussions (even ones ostensibly about sexism on Internet bulletin boards). I'd like to open a thread for anyone who wants to discuss the idea that the left's race- and gender-based politics have been counterproductive recently (even if historically justified) and that a focus on class would be more productive. Anyone care to join me?
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» RE: Building a Class-Based Left
Posted by: cry0fan
» RE: Building a Class-Based Left
Posted by: Jim Pivonka
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Relax
Posted by: lamar on Apr 14, 2006 1:00 PM
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Posted by: lamar on Apr 14, 2006 1:00 PM
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Your attractiveness doesn't "get in the way" of your articles. Your attractiveness is a function of how badass your articles are, and our collective interpolation of how cool or uncool your life must be based on photos and your opinions. Trust me, if you wrote shitty articles, nobody would profess their love for you. Boo hoo. Further, you have three things technology, pop culture, and sex. Now that I wrote the word sex, I forget what my whole point was. Thanks.
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Big Yawn
Posted by: chomsky on Apr 14, 2006 4:51 PM
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Posted by: chomsky on Apr 14, 2006 4:51 PM
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I logged in with bugmenot so god knows what nic I will be using now (ps. comment registration sucks) but
a) you put up your picture (and possibly others) on the internet, an eminently public place
b) slashdot is visited by doctors, engineers, Really Smart People (tm) and basement-dwelling lower lifeforms alike
c) any high-traffic site on the internet will have its percentage of morons aged 9-99 who will not refrain from spouting their mind
so what is your point? Do you think women don't know that yes, there are idiots on the internet? Hordes of them?
a) you put up your picture (and possibly others) on the internet, an eminently public place
b) slashdot is visited by doctors, engineers, Really Smart People (tm) and basement-dwelling lower lifeforms alike
c) any high-traffic site on the internet will have its percentage of morons aged 9-99 who will not refrain from spouting their mind
so what is your point? Do you think women don't know that yes, there are idiots on the internet? Hordes of them?
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» RE: Big Yawn
Posted by: chomsky
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slashdot's unreliable narration
Posted by: chomsky on Apr 14, 2006 5:26 PM
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Posted by: chomsky on Apr 14, 2006 5:26 PM
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All slashdot comments should be taken with a grain of salt, if not a healthy pinch of it.
Trolling is endemic on slashdot. I'd wager that a rather large proportion of the comments directed toward your appearance were, in fact, bait set by trolls.
Trolling is endemic on slashdot. I'd wager that a rather large proportion of the comments directed toward your appearance were, in fact, bait set by trolls.
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Wow. Ms. Negative Newitz you are
Posted by: acidrain69 on Apr 14, 2006 9:34 PM
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Posted by: acidrain69 on Apr 14, 2006 9:34 PM
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You know, as a male and a slashdot reader, I was happy to see you get airtime on Slashdot. I find your articles provoking at times, entertaining, and intelligent. I thought to myself, "Wow, good for her, she deserves the exposure". But you focus on a few lowly trolls, who are usually the loudest when an argument erupts (all too frequently on Slashdot).
Free advice, which I think you already realize: Don't feed the trolls. Don't even look at the trolls, you just feed them more by looking at them. Are you turning your back on a problem? Possibly. But don't forget that all anyone has on a blog such as slashdot is their communication, and acknowledging them just gives them something to respond to. You aren't going to change them all. Most of them will grow out of it, some of them will just continue being republican, etc.
Moral: Just be happy several hundred thousand people who have similar interests as you now know you exist. You are a writer, and you also need acknowledgement. Maybe it isn't the acknowledgement you wanted, but you are basically a public figure in a sense, and don't have the luxury of choosing.
Don't get too bent out of shape about it, and keep up the good work, ok?
Free advice, which I think you already realize: Don't feed the trolls. Don't even look at the trolls, you just feed them more by looking at them. Are you turning your back on a problem? Possibly. But don't forget that all anyone has on a blog such as slashdot is their communication, and acknowledging them just gives them something to respond to. You aren't going to change them all. Most of them will grow out of it, some of them will just continue being republican, etc.
Moral: Just be happy several hundred thousand people who have similar interests as you now know you exist. You are a writer, and you also need acknowledgement. Maybe it isn't the acknowledgement you wanted, but you are basically a public figure in a sense, and don't have the luxury of choosing.
Don't get too bent out of shape about it, and keep up the good work, ok?
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bitch=woman
Posted by: chomsky on Apr 15, 2006 1:18 PM
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Posted by: chomsky on Apr 15, 2006 1:18 PM
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Bla
Okay all you looser women reading this...if you want to play with us boys and be taken as equals you must put up with our antics. I mean come on...I looked up Annalee Newitz on google and she/you did not come off as a "seriously and professionally" person to me...more of some type of emo needy geek grrrl that is into manga/computer and crap.
So maybe if you want to be taken more "seriously and professionally" you will play the part...and not just bitch.
Now please leave the room.
Frank Spencer
Okay all you looser women reading this...if you want to play with us boys and be taken as equals you must put up with our antics. I mean come on...I looked up Annalee Newitz on google and she/you did not come off as a "seriously and professionally" person to me...more of some type of emo needy geek grrrl that is into manga/computer and crap.
So maybe if you want to be taken more "seriously and professionally" you will play the part...and not just bitch.
Now please leave the room.
Frank Spencer
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» RE: bitch=woman
Posted by: saywhat?
» RE: bitch=woman
Posted by: Jim Pivonka
» RE: bitch=woman
Posted by: Elmowilcox
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Sexyism is not sexual hairy-assment...I don't think...
Posted by: mallowdoggy on Apr 16, 2006 4:07 AM
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Posted by: mallowdoggy on Apr 16, 2006 4:07 AM
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The wonderful truth is that we are first sexual, second everything else. Not Mr./Ms.potatoheads with interchangeable genitalia, or "professionals" before sex objects. We are all potentially sex objects to someone. The stale oyster of the '70's feminist anti-erotic movement, that "objectifying" women was somehow depriving them of power was deeply misguided. In fact, erotica is mostly idolatry of women; it is the women who are the big stars in sex; it's more akin to the Venus worship cults in ancient times.
This feminist detour against "objectifying" females is more a product of our puritan past, where sexuality became shameful and derogatory, and women began to be concerned about their "reps."
My girlfriend was reading a book by a woman about French culture, and she describes that there are classes in France for female executives who are going to the U.S. to work, in which they are warned not to feel disliked because workmates don't make passes at them, or ask them out to lunch or dinner, because we have a thing in the U.S. called "Sexual Harassment" which is a serious offence in which men can lose their jobs.
Bewildered French female execs in France apparently expect flirting on site as friendly ackowledgement, and don't understand why this doesn't occur stateside. There are equivalent classes for American men who go over, in which they are instructed that it is RUDE not to comment on EVERY woman's looks (favorably of course), and it is customary on starting a new job to ask out EVERY woman in the office, no matter how young or old, so that no one feels left out. So I think it's clearly cultural.
If someone online feels ok to call you "gorgeous", why be offended? And yes, /. is a nerd haven full of guys who aren't getting laid enough, no surprises there. The point is, Women's sexuality can be a form of power, not a handicap. Of course, no one likes persistent advances by someone who is undesirable; gay guys and lesbians cringe at the advances of opposite sex come-ons, as straight people can react to the advances of same-sex come-ons, etc.
But in a verbal discourse, and one where people develop on-line personas, especially when sexuality is part of the celebrity profile (sex toy reviews etc.) Why not encourage what seems to be genuine affection? The angry jerks who truly are sexists deserve their rebukes, and you might find you have more sympathetic males out there to call them on their BS.
This feminist detour against "objectifying" females is more a product of our puritan past, where sexuality became shameful and derogatory, and women began to be concerned about their "reps."
My girlfriend was reading a book by a woman about French culture, and she describes that there are classes in France for female executives who are going to the U.S. to work, in which they are warned not to feel disliked because workmates don't make passes at them, or ask them out to lunch or dinner, because we have a thing in the U.S. called "Sexual Harassment" which is a serious offence in which men can lose their jobs.
Bewildered French female execs in France apparently expect flirting on site as friendly ackowledgement, and don't understand why this doesn't occur stateside. There are equivalent classes for American men who go over, in which they are instructed that it is RUDE not to comment on EVERY woman's looks (favorably of course), and it is customary on starting a new job to ask out EVERY woman in the office, no matter how young or old, so that no one feels left out. So I think it's clearly cultural.
If someone online feels ok to call you "gorgeous", why be offended? And yes, /. is a nerd haven full of guys who aren't getting laid enough, no surprises there. The point is, Women's sexuality can be a form of power, not a handicap. Of course, no one likes persistent advances by someone who is undesirable; gay guys and lesbians cringe at the advances of opposite sex come-ons, as straight people can react to the advances of same-sex come-ons, etc.
But in a verbal discourse, and one where people develop on-line personas, especially when sexuality is part of the celebrity profile (sex toy reviews etc.) Why not encourage what seems to be genuine affection? The angry jerks who truly are sexists deserve their rebukes, and you might find you have more sympathetic males out there to call them on their BS.
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» RE: Sexyism is not sexual hairy-assment...I don't think...
Posted by: Bwesley
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Just a thought
Posted by: Elmowilcox on Apr 16, 2006 11:41 AM
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Posted by: Elmowilcox on Apr 16, 2006 11:41 AM
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You remember bad things that happen in your life, while anything good or just not-bad typically goes unnoticed(exceptions exist of course). With that said, I've noticed that "problems in society" are generally the acts of the one tenth of one percentile portion of the population. Most people are normal, statistically speaking. Keep in mind there are 250 million in this country alone, and we aren't even the only ones on the net. Almost all guys have the traits outlined in this article ingrained into their biology, but the greater majority also knows how to act like respectable human beings. So for people to take the actions of some idiots on the internet as a sign of the times, well, is kind of a sign of the times in itself, in my opinion. I would say that people worried about what someone else says about what they posted, or even worse someone worried about being personally attacked, have too much time on their hands or way too much emotion invested in internet websites. Why are women so damn emotional about what some jackass in Chicago said about their post? I'm a male and I post things, and guys inevitably respond with abrasive, scathing remarks that don't necessarily have a damn thing to do with what I wrote, see me crying? I'll leave it with this comment, among men there are arseholes, and woman have their biotches. Everyone in between should just ignore the irrational, emotional statements they make and get over it.
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Political views of slashdot
Posted by: medstudgeek on Apr 16, 2006 1:22 PM
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Posted by: medstudgeek on Apr 16, 2006 1:22 PM
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Actually, slashdot's becoming increasingly progressive as their jobs get sent to India, they used to be libertarian but now capitalism has turned on them. You know how a liberal is a conservative who's out of work?
Also most political discussions eventually bring up European social democracy as an alternative. Cry0fan's posted on there and was actually pretty enlightening for me.
They're not chauvinist so much as sex-starved.
Also most political discussions eventually bring up European social democracy as an alternative. Cry0fan's posted on there and was actually pretty enlightening for me.
They're not chauvinist so much as sex-starved.
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"Info-tainment"
Posted by: Steven Wanzell on Apr 16, 2006 6:09 PM
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Posted by: Steven Wanzell on Apr 16, 2006 6:09 PM
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Like so much material deemed "news", I think Slashdot (some might prefer to call it "Slipshod") fits well within the realm of info-tainment.
In terms of its being sexist, we must keep in mind the obvious: that the entire world is (still) dominated by males, and, unfortunately, most women still prefer it that way, or buy the absurd myth that male supremacy is the "natural order". Personally, I think women make better leaders than men, if we consider "leadership" to be an activity of organization and administration, rather than one of conquest.
Women can't be Barbie, AND be politically and economically equal to men. Their fate as a collective entity IS in their own (over-manicured) hands. It's very much like the gay rights movement. Now that it seems to be fighting seriously for equal representation under the law, rather than the "right to cross-dress", those rights are becoming a legal reality. Their redefinition of self has led them to fight for what really matters.
Similarly, only when the majority of women themselves no longer accept and make excuses for their willing misteatment, marginalization and subjugation, will the two sexes exist on an equal par.
Steven Wanzell,
artist/activist/ex-American
www.wanzellarts.com.ar
In terms of its being sexist, we must keep in mind the obvious: that the entire world is (still) dominated by males, and, unfortunately, most women still prefer it that way, or buy the absurd myth that male supremacy is the "natural order". Personally, I think women make better leaders than men, if we consider "leadership" to be an activity of organization and administration, rather than one of conquest.
Women can't be Barbie, AND be politically and economically equal to men. Their fate as a collective entity IS in their own (over-manicured) hands. It's very much like the gay rights movement. Now that it seems to be fighting seriously for equal representation under the law, rather than the "right to cross-dress", those rights are becoming a legal reality. Their redefinition of self has led them to fight for what really matters.
Similarly, only when the majority of women themselves no longer accept and make excuses for their willing misteatment, marginalization and subjugation, will the two sexes exist on an equal par.
Steven Wanzell,
artist/activist/ex-American
www.wanzellarts.com.ar
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For a real victim see Violet Blue
Posted by: gnash on Apr 16, 2006 10:05 PM
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Posted by: gnash on Apr 16, 2006 10:05 PM
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Filled with all the good stuff accusations of "misogynist" to writing about his corpse f***ing fantasies about Xeni and Violet... everyday. Too bad they are all lies, but it's ok no one will know (middle of page).
They may not know, but they are confused and un-impressed.
Thought on this: One of the best ways to be seen on equal footing and not have your work be judged on your gender is to not play the gender card when one doesn't like criticisms. On a general journalistic 101 tip - it is also a good idea not to fabricate events in your story in an attempt to get back at the critic. I know this (like Annalee and Xeni) but at least one just doesn't get it (Violet Blue).
They may not know, but they are confused and un-impressed.
Thought on this: One of the best ways to be seen on equal footing and not have your work be judged on your gender is to not play the gender card when one doesn't like criticisms. On a general journalistic 101 tip - it is also a good idea not to fabricate events in your story in an attempt to get back at the critic. I know this (like Annalee and Xeni) but at least one just doesn't get it (Violet Blue).
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» RE: For a real victim see Violet Blue
Posted by: gnash
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For those who don't realize that techgeekdom is dominated by guys...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Apr 18, 2006 10:37 AM
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Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Apr 18, 2006 10:37 AM
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You should each make a pilgrimage to the MIT flea market held third sunday of the month April through Sept (I think).
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Maybe this will shed some light on things
Posted by: bithead on Apr 19, 2006 11:11 AM
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Posted by: bithead on Apr 19, 2006 11:11 AM
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Nothing for you to see here...
Posted by: eneva on Jul 17, 2006 12:24 PM
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Posted by: eneva on Jul 17, 2006 12:24 PM
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Slashdot is the way it is because its audience consists mostly of young men who behave accordingly. Like it or leave it, really. A great majority of people are idiots anyway, and when you twist some statistic like gender distribution, you get a corresponding change in the quality of stupidity. Trust me, women have their own oddities -- communities of women tend to degenerate into backstabbing catfights, for example. At least guys just drink their beer and gawk at girls, and if there's a conflict, it's a fair fistfight.
I am not particularly impressed by the fact that feminists are always declaring war on behaviour which is probably as old as the human race itself. One IS free to just move along. And no, I will not stop calling a gorgeous nerd a gorgeous nerd when I see one... I would be just simply stating facts! If women on the net won't call the (rare?) nerd hunk a hunk, it's their problem entirely; they're the ones who won't be dating that guy for sure. Instead, they will become bitter old maids who spend the rest of their lives alone, posting on alternet about what asses men are...
I am not particularly impressed by the fact that feminists are always declaring war on behaviour which is probably as old as the human race itself. One IS free to just move along. And no, I will not stop calling a gorgeous nerd a gorgeous nerd when I see one... I would be just simply stating facts! If women on the net won't call the (rare?) nerd hunk a hunk, it's their problem entirely; they're the ones who won't be dating that guy for sure. Instead, they will become bitter old maids who spend the rest of their lives alone, posting on alternet about what asses men are...
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