COMMENTS: 132
Again With the 'Jewish Conspiracy'
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Sometime in the late-18th century, a cabal of powerful Jewish elders sat around a table and hatched a plot to take over the world. If you get that, you get the gist of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. All the rest, as the rabbis say, is commentary.
Shortly after 9/11, a young Egyptian cabdriver assured filmmaker Marc Levin that no Jews had perished in the World Trade Center because, he explained, all the Jews had been "warned in advance." It's all in that book, the driver told him, written 100 years ago. No matter that "the book" has been debunked a half a dozen times since the Times of London first exposed it as a forgery in 1921.
Levin was surprised by the stubborn prevalence of the 9/11 rumor and alarmed by the penetration of the discredited Protocols, so he set out to explore the history and the current status of its fictions. In a personal, sometimes courageous, but ultimately sloppy journey, his film "Protocols of Zion" engages Arabs, Muslims, Jews, white supremacists and scholars on the Protocols, Israel and 9/11 in an attempt, apparently, to understand the lure of the book's message. The film premieres Tuesday, April 11 on Cinemax.
The Protocols were fabricated by order of the Russian czar in the early years of the 19th century in a classic attempt to rustle up a scapegoat as he began to fear that a revolution was fomenting. Ironically, once the revolution did take place a century later, the Jewish plot once contrived to divert revolutionary energy was subsequently blamed for it. Later, as the communist regime took an ugly turn, Jews would once again make convenient scapegoats and were persecuted accordingly.
The book reached the shores of America when Henry Ford began giving away free copies to anyone who purchased his anti-Semitic classic, The International Jew.
To Levin's credit he walks into some harrowing situations neither faltering nor, for the most part, judging his subjects. In front of a bookseller on 6th Avenue who sheepishly admits that the book has been very popular of late, Levin confronts a black man ranting about the Jewish ownership of the city of New York. The man points to the mayor, Bloooomberg, he says, to achieve maximum Jewification of the name.
When Levin responds that Giuliani was mayor for eight years before Bloomberg, the man stops and thinks for a minute before enunciating, with equal fervor, the previous mayor's name: Jewwwwww-liani.
"Jewliani?" replies Levin, "Listen to what you're saying!"
But you needn't go to the street to find a copy. Until September 2004 the Protocols were available at Wal-Mart (whose review of the book -- We neither support nor deny its message. We simply make it available for those who wish a copy -- was more open-minded than its employee benefits policies). Levin also finds copies on the internet and at a white supremacist compound (though they're sold out during his visit).
Interwoven with Levin's conversations with Protocols proponents are clips from an old audio production depicting Jews as subterranean power players hatching nefarious plots to rule the world, and scenes from a TV miniseries. One scene reenacts the ritualistic murder of a screaming Christian child whose blood has been rumored, over the centuries, to be a key ingredient in the preparation of Passover matzoth.
The most interesting moments in the film come when Levin explores the reasons why a person or a group of people might be attracted to the pernicious lies served up by the Protocols.
Author Doug Rushkoff's take is that the Protocols believers have it partly right; Jews are a "corrosive force." He writes:
"[T]he thing that makes Judaism dangerous to everybody, to every race, to every nation, to every idea; is that we smash things that aren't true. We don't believe in the boundaries of the nation-state, we don't believe in the ideas of these individual gods that protect individual groups of people, these are all artificial constructions and Judaism really teaches us how to see that."While that's the Judaism I believe in, and while I suspect there's some validity to this explanation, it strikes me as just a bit too glossy to provide the whole story. The elephant in the room is Israel, a topic Levin eventually gets to, just but not extensively enough, in my opinion.
At a parade he gives the mic to a young right-wing Jew who says of the Arab/Muslim world:
"From the minute they're born and they can talk, they're brainwashed to hate Jews, to hate Christians, to hate America, to hate hate hate. Now if you want peace with people like that who are programmed -- that's insanity, that's suicide … you wanna embrace these people and treat them with all this peace and love, your head's gonna be rolllin'… rollin' in the street … rollin' on the internet for all to watch. That's what's gonna happen to all these peace lovers that they think that peace is the answer. Peace is great in a perfect world, but these people don't want peace."Another says: "Yeah, I'll criticize Israel; they're not right-wing enough."
It begins to play out like a microcosm of the Israel/Palestine mess, with fanatics on both sides grabbing the headlines. Hamas, now the elected representatives of the Palestinian people, has an official charter containing a reference to the Protocols:
"The Zionist plan is limitless. After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."A clip from an Egyptian TV program shows a 3-year-old girl, clearly coached by adults, calling Jews "apes and pigs."
At the heart of the desire to believe in the Protocols is the desire for some other to blame for our misfortunes. It's the same driving force behind any conspiracy theory; find some discrete group to blame for the world's and tragedies or an individual's own pain and desperation.
But there's another side, one seldom discussed in polite company. It's the difference between responsibility and blame. While Jews certainly aren't to blame for the despicable beliefs advanced by the Protocols, we are responsible for our actions and our attitudes. At the heart of Levin's film is a muted call for Jews -- for all of us -- to acknowledge the role we've played in increasing the Protocols' attractiveness and power.
As Levin notes: "In much of the world today because of their support for Israel, the new Jews are Americans." Just because opponents of Israel resort to anti-Semitic tracts and repugnant rhetoric to bolster their case, doesn't mean we shouldn't hold Israel to a high standard of justice. As Americans we may not be to blame for our leadership and for every pernicious rumor running about, but we most certainly are responsible for the policies enacted in our names.
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Posted by: dainin on Apr 11, 2006 12:31 PM
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Is it anything like the "dark-skinned demons (who just happen to live on the last remaining oil-rich land) want to steal our freedoms" conspiracy theory that most Americans advocate?
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Posted by: daniel1982 on Apr 11, 2006 1:36 PM
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Thats what they want you to think.
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» Who are they?
Posted by: PEEK
» RE: right
Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: right
Posted by: yellow
» RE: right
Posted by: ggma
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Posted by: TorontoCanada on Apr 11, 2006 3:21 PM
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Protocol of the elders of SION (not Zion)
has NOTHING to do with Judaism or Jews
it comes from the "Prieure de Sion"
which in the 1800's was simply a french branch of
these secret society networks, knights of Malta,
Knights Templar ect...
Grand Masters of the Prieure de Sion have included
Victor Hugo & Isaac Newton.
They had a plan to control world populations by making people fight each other, making people fearfull have the eventual goal of a world government, run by them of course. All done by misleading the public, a la today's mass media.
They can be traced from the Prieure de Sion, Knights Templar, to the Rockefellers, to the Nazi's & Hitler's rise, Bush's Grandfather(who supported the nazi's) and on to this very day. They are doing quite well these days actually, in case you were wondering how things have become so messed up.
This is very clearly described by many courageous people
such as Dr. Leonard Horowitz, Alex Jones.
Check out what they have to say with an open mind, look at the facts, & don't allow yourself to manipulated by the dozens of posts below, ridiculing me.
" If the Fool does not laugh aloud, then it is NOT the Way."
taoist proverb
This above article is a whitewash & merely confuses the facts.
Peace !
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» RE: protocol of the elders of SION
Posted by: TorontoCanada
» RE: protocol of the elders of SION
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: protocol of the elders of SION
Posted by: RobbieUMD
» I agree that people get Zionism mixed up with Jews!
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: I agree that people get Zionism mixed up with Jews!
Posted by: aonghus36
» Ashkenazi vs. Sephardic
Posted by: RobbieUMD
» Nonsense
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Nonsense
Posted by: RobbieUMD
» RE: Nonsense
Posted by: RobbieUMD
» RE: protocol of the elders of HALLIBURTON
Posted by: cold2touch
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Posted by: mythbuster on Apr 11, 2006 3:29 PM
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Second, "Arabs" (meaning Palestinians, I suppose) are not raised to "hate." I know that many express hatred for Zionism or the Israeli Occupation, but the use of "hate" in that context is misleading, and, frankly, inappropriate. With few exceptions, we all hate totalitarianism, Nazism, and racist ideologies. However, that "hate" is healthy, and grounded in the belief that those ideologies are pernicious and dehumanizing, and, often, genocidal. When Palestinians raise their children to "hate" the Occupation, they are teaching their children to hate an injustice, a murderous, racist belief system (e.g., the "dream" of Eretz Israel), and probably on the only "respectable" form of ethnic cleansing in the world (e.g., the "settlements"). To condemn that rejection as "hate" is akin to equating resistence to the forced removal of the Cherokees by Andrew Jackson as "hate." So, I say, let's make some closer distinctions.
Third, the timing of a discussion of the Protocols seems pretty bad form right now. We are engaged in more pre-emptive action: We want our shrill racism to trump theirs. Surely, you have seen that some American Jewish organizations are begining to run adds calling for military action against Iran. The web is full of truly hateful websites with phony pro-democracy sounding names all baying for Iranian blood. To speak about anti-Semitism in this time is just another form of racial dismissiveness. It's like a middle class white guy claiming that he faces discrimination in America. Yeah, maybe, but not at all like an African-American.
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» Mythbuster....Ain't
Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: Mythbuster....Ain't
Posted by: mythbuster
» RE: Mythbuster....Ain't
Posted by: mikespindell
» And the winner is...
Posted by: chuckville
» RE: And the winner is...Chuck
Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: ead Conor Cruise O'Brien
Posted by: hocrus
» RE: ead Conor Cruise O'Brien
Posted by: mythbuster
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Posted by: Jeffersonista on Apr 11, 2006 3:48 PM
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How many men have they murdered under thier policy of proactive assasination? As long as thier is oil, the great beast/satan will use the jews as an excuse to steal the oil from under the feet of the true owners.
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» RE: Judge them by thier actions
Posted by: BigPoppa
» RE: Judge them by thier actions
Posted by: mythbuster
» RE: Judge them by thier actions
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: Judge them by thier actions
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Judge them by thier actions
Posted by: mythbuster
» "Them?" "Jewry?"
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: "Them?" "Jewry?"
Posted by: mythbuster
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Posted by: mikespindell on Apr 11, 2006 5:06 PM
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>Just because opponents of Israel resort to anti-Semitic tracts and repugnant rhetoric to bolster their case, doesn't mean we shouldn't hold Israel to a high standard of justice.<
As a lifelong progressive I always thought that there was never ANY justification for bigotry. To look at the first quote I guess that in Alternet terms, at least as far as one of its' editors goes, those being reviled (in this case Jews) have a duty to understand why the bigots hate us. To not only understand the why, but to examine our own contribution to their hatred.
Evan, that is just plain wrong thinking. With this logic one would think that Afro-Americans having lived through a different type (but just as evil) holocaust, should search their souls to understand why racists revile them. While there are some blacks, Bill Cosby for instance, who call for this self examination, most rightly reject this call of his and deem him acting like a "Tom" for saying it.
I support Israel because I believe its' existence is every bit as legitimate as those of the surrounding Arab states, and indeed as the raison d'etre of most country's in this world. Being a few years older than Israel I have lived through its history and my take on that history doesn't conflict with my position as a progressive. I've previously presented, on this site for one, an analysis that explains what I believe to be the real facts of the ME. I say this not as a plea for people to agree with my position, but to note that I've done my own thinking on the issues, for better or worse depending on one's perspective.
Having observed and participated in some Alternet discussions of issues pertaining to the ME I am struck by how many progressives merely repeat the mythology of the ME that has been created by some mis-analysing progressive pundits, who have been taken in by a powerful Arab PR scheme paid for by the Saudi's and by Big Oil. The other roots of this mis-analysis came from the influence of the Soviet Union in the 40's, 50's & 60's, who wanted a foothold in the ME equal to that of the US.
The assumption that supporter's of Israel's right to exist are automatically supporters of the Neo Con position is one that is also rife with the bigotry of ignorance and mis-analysis. Particularly pernicious is the assumption that because some prominent Neo-Cons have a Jewish heritage, their analysis is a thin disguise for support of Israel. This of course is a further bigotry because it conflates their heritage with their political philosophy. In doing so it conveniently avoids mentioning the real heavy hitters in the Neo-con constellation namely Cheney, Rummy, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr., none of whom has a history that could be described as Israel-Phillic The Perl's of this world are merely the spear carrier's and the ass kissing wannabees.
As the second quote above suggests I agree that Israel and indeed ALL nations of the world should be held to a high standard of justice. However, my sense is that many Alternet posters, and some editors, downplay the bigoted attacks on Israel while simultaneously holding Israel to a HIGHER standard of justice than that held for other nations, particularly Arab countries. The eagerness of some of those who comment on Alternet articles to use hyperbole when describing Israel's errors would be laughable in its stupidity, if it weren't so pernicious in its statements.
I decry Likud's policies, past and present and I'll reserve judgment on Kadima. However, while I disagree with those Right Wing policies from both a moral and strategic perspective, I also find the equation of Israeli's with Nazi's or totalitarians to be likewise offensive and supremely stupid.
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» RE: Nice Sentiments.......Wrong Conclusions
Posted by: mythbuster
» RE: Nice Sentiments.......Wrong Conclusions
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: Nice Sentiments.......Wrong Conclusions
Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: Nice Sentiments.......Wrong Conclusions
Posted by: yellow
» False logic here.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: False logic here.
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: False logic here....Thank you Prophit
Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: False logic here.
Posted by: yellow
» RESPONSE TO MIKE...
Posted by: PEEK
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Posted by: famouspipeliner on Apr 11, 2006 5:18 PM
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Posted by: cry0fan on Apr 11, 2006 5:48 PM
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That drives the white males away from the left.
Which means the rich have no worries about a progressive tax structure or a strong welfare state, like they have in Europe.
THe Overclass LOVES IT that American Left's main enemy is no longer the Overclass, as it still is in Europe, but instead Joe Sixpick who thinks the Jews rule the world. Instead of standing up for this largest single voting bloc,blue collar white males, the Left now sees them as the font of all evil.
And we wonder why there is no real American left.
Of course this American Left is primarily a creature of nonprofit foundation money, which was set up decades ago by the plutocrats with the goal of molding a domesticated Left. Richard Bissell, former CIA honcho after WW2, who became a Ford Foundation honcho, said their goal was not to debate the Leftists about ideas, but to divert them to less harmful areas.
This plan succeeded so very well.
No Left can succeed without making the largest single bloc its core demographic. THe people who talk about the Elders of the Zion are not too far from the core demographic of any real true Left.
We have no real true Left in America.
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» RE: The Overclass LOVES IT when the Left demonizes ordinary white men!
Posted by: Uncle Tupelo
» RE: The Overclass LOVES IT when the Left demonizes ordinary white men!
Posted by: mandiwrite
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Posted by: bettsoff on Apr 11, 2006 6:06 PM
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Posted by: Daniel Shays on Apr 12, 2006 4:06 AM
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What do other people know about this?
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» RE: what's the history?
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: what's the history?
Posted by: jleo
» Certainly not 'utopia' ...
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: what's the history?
Posted by: AlienSlave
» RE: what's the history?
Posted by: oracular wisdom
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Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver on Apr 12, 2006 4:31 AM
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» RE: Source for Protocols
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Source for Protocols
Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: Source for Protocols
Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver
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Posted by: joeblo on Apr 12, 2006 6:06 AM
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The last time it was easy to see through your agenda. Remember? When you copied the sentencing phase of a trial onto ANOTHER trial and made it seem like a single trial, just to get your 'men are rapists' point across? A spelling error is a mistake, what you did with the copy-and-paste propaganda reporting was deliberate. Nobody believes the excuse that it was a mistake.
You want to start removing the hate speech from the world? Start by giving up your editorial desires, as you are quite obviously part of the problem you claim to be against.
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» RE: This from the guy who copied and pasted a story together...
Posted by: bettsoff
» RE: This from the guy who copied and pasted a story together...
Posted by: joeblo
» ?
Posted by: RobbieUMD
» RE: This from the guy who copied and pasted a story together...
Posted by: bettsoff
» RE: This from the guy who copied and pasted a story together...
Posted by: eringhorm
» RE: This from the guy who copied and pasted a story together...
Posted by: joeblo
» RE: This from the guy who copied and pasted a story together...
Posted by: yellow
» RE: This from the guy who copied and pasted a story together...
Posted by: joeblo
» RE: This from the guy who copied and pasted a story together...
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: gazooks on Apr 12, 2006 6:11 AM
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It's really one of our more charming delusions.
I think that it was a really bad idea for any one group of humans at any point in history, to assume that their relationship with a supposed creator held status above another. Must have been some killer fungus.
As for me, I'm content to join my Jewish friends for a Passover dinner of fresh Christian baby, .... delicious with a mango salsa.
Then, wearing my new GOT GOD? T-shirt, a pleasant walk up the hill to urinate on the still smoldering, self exploding mosque.
Ain't life akbar?
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 12, 2006 6:38 AM
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Israeli actions in Palestine seem to be fairly similar to the rounding up of Jews into ghettos in the late 1930's in Germany. Perhaps they could have all Palestinians in Israel wear a gold cresent on their chest - oh, but their skin color is different, so that isn't necessay. I find it completely shocking that Israel has such a racist attitude - didn't they study the Holocaust? How can Israeli leaders carry out the same kind of actions that Nazi leaders initiated? Can we put it down to something like the cycle of child abuse?
Of course, if you look into the details, the concept of 'race' is a social definition, and as a biological definition it does not have any merit - regardless of what generations of social-genetic Darwinists would have you believe. Scientific racism is just a perversion of basic scientific principles - but it was one of the bulwarks of Nazi ideology, and the influence of primitive 'in-group/out-group' modes of thinking continues today.
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» Race and Religion...
Posted by: chasaturn
» Thank you
Posted by: RobbieUMD
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: Newtopia
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: RobbieUMD
» RE:the absurdity of race
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: Newtopia
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: chuckville
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: chuckville
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: hmmm? on Apr 12, 2006 7:56 AM
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» Al Franken
Posted by: RobbieUMD
» RE: Honest question: How many Jewish Americans DID die in 9/11?
Posted by: Jimbo
» RE: Honest question: How many Jewish Americans DID die in 9/11?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Honest question: How many Jewish Americans DID die in 9/11?
Posted by: mythbuster
» RE: Honest question: How many Jewish Americans DID die in 9/11?
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: Jimbo on Apr 12, 2006 9:12 AM
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Ok, Im missing something here. What about god infecting the Egyptians with plagues as revenge for enslaving the Isrealites? What about god parting the sea? That sounds like an individual god protecting an individual group to me.
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» RE: Individual god, individual groups ?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Individual god, individual groups ?
Posted by: mythbuster
» RE: Individual god, individual groups ?
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: Roverton on Apr 12, 2006 9:32 AM
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I love my species. No apology. We're infants and infants make mistakes. Some fatal. If our emenie's confusion is the crime, then what's the long term answer? Love. Then we join up.
It hasn't always been an unrealistic fantasy to believe in that. I remember an enormous amount of change brought on by using idealism as a beacon.
Humankind is capable of waking up and not attacking itself. Even the "Bad Guys" have eyes.
Who knows?
Who really knows?
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Posted by: SevenStarHand on Apr 12, 2006 12:35 PM
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If you want to understand why the "powers that be" seem increasingly desperate in the last few years, visit my web site and let everyone know that your leaders, their cohorts, and the Vatican are desperately trying to distract humanity from understanding that I am here now, though hidden as a thief.
I've made sure that the Bush-Cheney crew and the Vatican are fully aware of my presence and identity in recent months. Now you have proof that they are desperately trying to keep people from understanding the truth about many things.
Don't let them succeed. Let everyone know that I am here now and the leaders of this world are actively conspiring to keep everyone from understanding who I am and why they are opposing me and those of like mind.
Read my articles and FREE E-Book for stunning and comprehensive proof of the hidden agenda of the Bush-Cheney crew and their links to the Vatican. They don’t want you to learn that all three so-called Faiths of Abraham are purposeful deceptions secretly controlled by the Vatican and its secret-society cohorts, who are the hidden sources of world-wide terrorism.
http://www.geocities.com/sevenstarhand/articles.html
http://www.geocities.com/sevenstarhand/summary.html
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» RE: Another Machiavellian Red Herring to hide the truth...
Posted by: Llama11
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Posted by: chanceny on Apr 12, 2006 1:49 PM
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» RE: HOLY ----
Posted by: BlueTigress
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Posted by: Elisha on Apr 12, 2006 2:14 PM
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There is a slightly abridged version of some of the content of the “Protocols” in a book called Shillum which can be found at this link.
Chapter 3 is about the Protocols. (word search for “little book” without quotes) A few excerpts follow.
“We shall deal with the news media in the following way: what is the part played by the news media today? It serves to excite and inflame those passions which are needed for our purposes, or else it serves the selfish goals of groups of individuals.”
“Literature and journalism are two of the most important educational forces, therefore, our government will become proprietor of the majority of the journals and news media productions.”
“We shall. . . establish huge monopolies, reservoirs of colossal riches [International Banking], that even the large economies of the nations will depend on it to such an extent that they will go to the bottom together with the credit of the nations on the day after the political smash.”
“Whenever we encounter any nation which dares to oppose us, we must be prepared to incite war and join with its neighbors against it; but if those neighboring countries should also venture to stand together against us, then we must create resistance by inciting a universal war.”
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» RE: Is The Content True?
Posted by: zipper696
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Posted by: PEEK on Apr 12, 2006 2:52 PM
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As for anyone, such as the above commenter, who suggests that ANY part of the Protocols is "true," I respond in the only way appropriate: Pleeeeease. Are you joking? Take the vacuous bigotry elsewhere....
Evan
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» RE: SPONSE IN BLOGS
Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» RE: RESPONSE IN BLOGS
Posted by: thweems
» RE: SPONSE IN BLOGS
Posted by: yellow
» RE: SPONSE IN BLOGS
Posted by: thweems
» RE: SPONSE IN BLOGS
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: medstudgeek on Apr 12, 2006 10:22 PM
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Sure there are Jewish conservatives...Murray Rothbard, Frank Chodorov, and Ayn Rand on the libertarian side and all the neocons. The head of the RNC is Jewish. But Jews are predominantly liberal, and that's naturally going to piss off Republicans. "Fuck the Jews, they didn't vote for us anyway," James Baker said. Well, yeah, they didn't.
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Posted by: Newtopia on Apr 13, 2006 6:37 AM
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What's relevant is that Israel is an apartheid state guilty of widescale human rights atrocities. They are a brutal and selfish people (meaning Israelites, not "The Jews") who have sucked up every single dollar, natural resource, and acre in the region, all at the peril and expense of the Palestinians, who live in destitute poverty in "shanty" towns under a military occupation. Israel should be judged on their behavior since their (still) illegal formation in 1949, which includes 5 wars of aggression and a 40 year illegal occupation of Palestine. Plus, they have an illlegal and undocumented nuclear weapons program with over 200 warheads, and here we are squawking about hitting Iran for warheads they don;t even have yet.
Israel is the South Africa of the 21st Century, and they should be held accountable on the world stage. And this shreiking Cassandra "You're an anti-Semite if you question us" bullshit the Jews foist on the rest of the world, particularly Americans, is simply unforgiveable. Worse genocides than the Holocaust have happened in history, and none of those peoples have risen to the heights of power and influence that Israel has.
If it was any other nation, they'd probably be invaded and occupied by the US by now, if not economically destroyed like we did to Argentina, Mexico, Russia, Poland, the Asian Tiger, etc, etc.
But no...Israel gets 13 Billion a year from us instead.
It makes me want to puke.
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» RE: So what...
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: So what...
Posted by: chuckville
» RE: So what...
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: So what...
Posted by: chuckville
» RE: So what...
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: So what...
Posted by: Newtopia
» RE: So what...
Posted by: Llama11
» RE: So what...Newtopia, Chuck and Llama
Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: So what...Newtopia, Chuck and Llama
Posted by: yellow
» RE: So what...Newtopia, Chuck and Llama
Posted by: chuckville
» RE: So what...Newtopia, Chuck and Llama
Posted by: yellow
» RE: So what...Newtopia, Chuck and Llama
Posted by: Newtopia
» RE: So what...Newtopia, Chuck and Llama
Posted by: Llama11
» RE: So what...Newtopia, Chuck and Llama
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: incenseman on Apr 13, 2006 2:07 PM
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» RE: There no quotes from the book
Posted by: zipper696
» RE: There no quotes from the book
Posted by: incenseman
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Posted by: paulmccollum527 on Apr 16, 2006 11:37 AM
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So the longer we keep mentioning the one part of the anti semetic conspiracy angle without saying the full truth of why that single peace of information about why the Jewish people really were forewarned, then we are voluntarily playing the game known as, you guessed it, "The Sport of Distraction" with major dosses of denial and apathy being used like steroids to help win the game.
thanks
Paul
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Posted by: monsieurbill on Apr 16, 2006 2:05 PM
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It should also be noted that Levin has tried to use his film as a vehicle to spur dialogue. Invited to screenings in NY were a few prominent Jew bashing African American leaders(much to the chagrin of more mainstream Jewish elements who not only opposed that but also the making of the film altogether). At least one left saying that the film raised some questions for him. Dialogue started. What a concept!
The bottom line is this, kids. Racism of any sort is vile. And that includes anti-semitism(be it against Jews or Arabs). As a more or less secular Jew who marched against the Iraq war in SF and who has used the Passover seder on a few occasions to bring up the "occupation"(this is not self-congratulatory, just a fact), I am disturbed by the notion that is peretrated by many on the progressive side that if only there was no occupation(or Israel, for some),there would be no anti-semitism. Who the hell are you kidding? Anti-Jewish sentiment and persecution existed long,long before the emergence of the state of Israel! And, with the silence of many on the progressive side as well as the ongoing demonization by many in the Arab world(and,increasingly,in some parts of the European population as well), it continues to thrive. Accept that it exists, say that is unequivocably wrong and anti-human(no matter what the Israelis do). And when somebody talks about "the Jews" as if we're one homogeneous group with global control aspirations, challenge them on it!
While this movie may have bit off more than it could chew, it raises many disturbing and thought provoking points. See it and then come back to the table to discuss it. That's the least you could do.
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Posted by: cerveny1 on Apr 16, 2006 3:13 PM
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I challenge Joshua on every occasion because I disagree with him and his beliefs. He and I have both exchanged ad-hominem attacks – he seems to be a real tough guy though, given to Lee Marvin-esque outbursts but yet he whines to a friend and poof I’m gone or maybe he is the BIG PRICK who moderates the whole thing. In any event he actually represents much of what is wrong with this site and to a greater extent, what is wrong with America. We are discussing such topics as War, Racism, Fascism, Sexism, Capitalism, Socialism, etc. and yet are asked to keep the kid gloves on. Funny, one would think that people with enough conviction to come in here and discuss these topics would have thicker skin, and apparently most do except that little BITCH ASS TRICK JOSHUA LUDD. Keep him in mind when he attacks you personally and calls you a “reprehensible, murderous hypocrite” or this little pearl he threw out there – “Good for you. You still didn't serve. As my grandfather... a WW2 vet would say "close only counts in hand grenades and horseshoes". Either you served or you didn't, and you, you chickenhawk piece of shit, DID NOT.” Funny Josh is beyond reproach much like our own president and the man he was criticizing in that thread – Colin Powell. Who is going to censure or ban you Josh? What about that post wasn’t a personal attack and profane?
I think many of you would be interested in knowing that Little Joshie is running a pseudo-intellectual pyramid blogging scam – fucking hilarious Josh!!!! What is it called Josh – Blogging for Bucks?? LMAO!!!
No I understand why you have this incestuous little relationship with Alternet.org. You are giving each other the reach-around eh JOSHUADUDD? You’re nothing but a little blog twink are you? This is the real progressive thinker you all are dealing with. WHAT A FUCKING LOSER!! Here’s his pitch spoken like a good little Neo-con:
“Write a blog. Make Money.
There are millions of people who want to work from home but don't know how.There are millions of people who know how to write.There are millions of people who know how to write, but don't know how to make money with it.We KNOW how to make money with content people write. This site was designed to allow YOU to write content which WE will market and we will ALL make money.We'll make the money for you!
Then, we split the money,
50/50. Not only that but we'll also place your ads on the blogs of people you refer to writingUp.”
CHECK IT OUT HERE – PIMP YOURSELF OUT!!
http://www.writingup.com/write_a_blog_make_money
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» RE: JOSHUADUDD - INTERNET WHORE
Posted by: PEEK
» Whats it all about?
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
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Posted by: dainin on Apr 11, 2006 12:31 PM
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Is it anything like the "dark-skinned demons (who just happen to live on the last remaining oil-rich land) want to steal our freedoms" conspiracy theory that most Americans advocate?
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Posted by: daniel1982 on Apr 11, 2006 1:36 PM
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Thats what they want you to think.
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» Who are they?
Posted by: PEEK
» RE: right
Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: right
Posted by: yellow
» RE: right
Posted by: ggma
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Posted by: TorontoCanada on Apr 11, 2006 3:21 PM
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Protocol of the elders of SION (not Zion)
has NOTHING to do with Judaism or Jews
it comes from the "Prieure de Sion"
which in the 1800's was simply a french branch of
these secret society networks, knights of Malta,
Knights Templar ect...
Grand Masters of the Prieure de Sion have included
Victor Hugo & Isaac Newton.
They had a plan to control world populations by making people fight each other, making people fearfull have the eventual goal of a world government, run by them of course. All done by misleading the public, a la today's mass media.
They can be traced from the Prieure de Sion, Knights Templar, to the Rockefellers, to the Nazi's & Hitler's rise, Bush's Grandfather(who supported the nazi's) and on to this very day. They are doing quite well these days actually, in case you were wondering how things have become so messed up.
This is very clearly described by many courageous people
such as Dr. Leonard Horowitz, Alex Jones.
Check out what they have to say with an open mind, look at the facts, & don't allow yourself to manipulated by the dozens of posts below, ridiculing me.
" If the Fool does not laugh aloud, then it is NOT the Way."
taoist proverb
This above article is a whitewash & merely confuses the facts.
Peace !
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» RE: protocol of the elders of SION
Posted by: TorontoCanada
» RE: protocol of the elders of SION
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: protocol of the elders of SION
Posted by: RobbieUMD
» I agree that people get Zionism mixed up with Jews!
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: I agree that people get Zionism mixed up with Jews!
Posted by: aonghus36
» Ashkenazi vs. Sephardic
Posted by: RobbieUMD
» Nonsense
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Nonsense
Posted by: RobbieUMD
» RE: Nonsense
Posted by: RobbieUMD
» RE: protocol of the elders of HALLIBURTON
Posted by: cold2touch
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Posted by: mythbuster on Apr 11, 2006 3:29 PM
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Second, "Arabs" (meaning Palestinians, I suppose) are not raised to "hate." I know that many express hatred for Zionism or the Israeli Occupation, but the use of "hate" in that context is misleading, and, frankly, inappropriate. With few exceptions, we all hate totalitarianism, Nazism, and racist ideologies. However, that "hate" is healthy, and grounded in the belief that those ideologies are pernicious and dehumanizing, and, often, genocidal. When Palestinians raise their children to "hate" the Occupation, they are teaching their children to hate an injustice, a murderous, racist belief system (e.g., the "dream" of Eretz Israel), and probably on the only "respectable" form of ethnic cleansing in the world (e.g., the "settlements"). To condemn that rejection as "hate" is akin to equating resistence to the forced removal of the Cherokees by Andrew Jackson as "hate." So, I say, let's make some closer distinctions.
Third, the timing of a discussion of the Protocols seems pretty bad form right now. We are engaged in more pre-emptive action: We want our shrill racism to trump theirs. Surely, you have seen that some American Jewish organizations are begining to run adds calling for military action against Iran. The web is full of truly hateful websites with phony pro-democracy sounding names all baying for Iranian blood. To speak about anti-Semitism in this time is just another form of racial dismissiveness. It's like a middle class white guy claiming that he faces discrimination in America. Yeah, maybe, but not at all like an African-American.
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» Mythbuster....Ain't
Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: Mythbuster....Ain't
Posted by: mythbuster
» RE: Mythbuster....Ain't
Posted by: mikespindell
» And the winner is...
Posted by: chuckville
» RE: And the winner is...Chuck
Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: ead Conor Cruise O'Brien
Posted by: hocrus
» RE: ead Conor Cruise O'Brien
Posted by: mythbuster
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Posted by: Jeffersonista on Apr 11, 2006 3:48 PM
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How many men have they murdered under thier policy of proactive assasination? As long as thier is oil, the great beast/satan will use the jews as an excuse to steal the oil from under the feet of the true owners.
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» RE: Judge them by thier actions
Posted by: BigPoppa
» RE: Judge them by thier actions
Posted by: mythbuster
» RE: Judge them by thier actions
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: Judge them by thier actions
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Judge them by thier actions
Posted by: mythbuster
» "Them?" "Jewry?"
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: "Them?" "Jewry?"
Posted by: mythbuster
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Posted by: mikespindell on Apr 11, 2006 5:06 PM
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>Just because opponents of Israel resort to anti-Semitic tracts and repugnant rhetoric to bolster their case, doesn't mean we shouldn't hold Israel to a high standard of justice.<
As a lifelong progressive I always thought that there was never ANY justification for bigotry. To look at the first quote I guess that in Alternet terms, at least as far as one of its' editors goes, those being reviled (in this case Jews) have a duty to understand why the bigots hate us. To not only understand the why, but to examine our own contribution to their hatred.
Evan, that is just plain wrong thinking. With this logic one would think that Afro-Americans having lived through a different type (but just as evil) holocaust, should search their souls to understand why racists revile them. While there are some blacks, Bill Cosby for instance, who call for this self examination, most rightly reject this call of his and deem him acting like a "Tom" for saying it.
I support Israel because I believe its' existence is every bit as legitimate as those of the surrounding Arab states, and indeed as the raison d'etre of most country's in this world. Being a few years older than Israel I have lived through its history and my take on that history doesn't conflict with my position as a progressive. I've previously presented, on this site for one, an analysis that explains what I believe to be the real facts of the ME. I say this not as a plea for people to agree with my position, but to note that I've done my own thinking on the issues, for better or worse depending on one's perspective.
Having observed and participated in some Alternet discussions of issues pertaining to the ME I am struck by how many progressives merely repeat the mythology of the ME that has been created by some mis-analysing progressive pundits, who have been taken in by a powerful Arab PR scheme paid for by the Saudi's and by Big Oil. The other roots of this mis-analysis came from the influence of the Soviet Union in the 40's, 50's & 60's, who wanted a foothold in the ME equal to that of the US.
The assumption that supporter's of Israel's right to exist are automatically supporters of the Neo Con position is one that is also rife with the bigotry of ignorance and mis-analysis. Particularly pernicious is the assumption that because some prominent Neo-Cons have a Jewish heritage, their analysis is a thin disguise for support of Israel. This of course is a further bigotry because it conflates their heritage with their political philosophy. In doing so it conveniently avoids mentioning the real heavy hitters in the Neo-con constellation namely Cheney, Rummy, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr., none of whom has a history that could be described as Israel-Phillic The Perl's of this world are merely the spear carrier's and the ass kissing wannabees.
As the second quote above suggests I agree that Israel and indeed ALL nations of the world should be held to a high standard of justice. However, my sense is that many Alternet posters, and some editors, downplay the bigoted attacks on Israel while simultaneously holding Israel to a HIGHER standard of justice than that held for other nations, particularly Arab countries. The eagerness of some of those who comment on Alternet articles to use hyperbole when describing Israel's errors would be laughable in its stupidity, if it weren't so pernicious in its statements.
I decry Likud's policies, past and present and I'll reserve judgment on Kadima. However, while I disagree with those Right Wing policies from both a moral and strategic perspective, I also find the equation of Israeli's with Nazi's or totalitarians to be likewise offensive and supremely stupid.
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» RE: Nice Sentiments.......Wrong Conclusions
Posted by: mythbuster
» RE: Nice Sentiments.......Wrong Conclusions
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: Nice Sentiments.......Wrong Conclusions
Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: Nice Sentiments.......Wrong Conclusions
Posted by: yellow
» False logic here.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: False logic here.
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: False logic here....Thank you Prophit
Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: False logic here.
Posted by: yellow
» RESPONSE TO MIKE...
Posted by: PEEK
Comments are closed-
Posted by: famouspipeliner on Apr 11, 2006 5:18 PM
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Posted by: cry0fan on Apr 11, 2006 5:48 PM
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That drives the white males away from the left.
Which means the rich have no worries about a progressive tax structure or a strong welfare state, like they have in Europe.
THe Overclass LOVES IT that American Left's main enemy is no longer the Overclass, as it still is in Europe, but instead Joe Sixpick who thinks the Jews rule the world. Instead of standing up for this largest single voting bloc,blue collar white males, the Left now sees them as the font of all evil.
And we wonder why there is no real American left.
Of course this American Left is primarily a creature of nonprofit foundation money, which was set up decades ago by the plutocrats with the goal of molding a domesticated Left. Richard Bissell, former CIA honcho after WW2, who became a Ford Foundation honcho, said their goal was not to debate the Leftists about ideas, but to divert them to less harmful areas.
This plan succeeded so very well.
No Left can succeed without making the largest single bloc its core demographic. THe people who talk about the Elders of the Zion are not too far from the core demographic of any real true Left.
We have no real true Left in America.
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» RE: The Overclass LOVES IT when the Left demonizes ordinary white men!
Posted by: Uncle Tupelo
» RE: The Overclass LOVES IT when the Left demonizes ordinary white men!
Posted by: mandiwrite
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Posted by: bettsoff on Apr 11, 2006 6:06 PM
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Posted by: Daniel Shays on Apr 12, 2006 4:06 AM
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What do other people know about this?
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» RE: what's the history?
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: what's the history?
Posted by: jleo
» Certainly not 'utopia' ...
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: what's the history?
Posted by: AlienSlave
» RE: what's the history?
Posted by: oracular wisdom
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Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver on Apr 12, 2006 4:31 AM
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» RE: Source for Protocols
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Source for Protocols
Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: Source for Protocols
Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver
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Posted by: joeblo on Apr 12, 2006 6:06 AM
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The last time it was easy to see through your agenda. Remember? When you copied the sentencing phase of a trial onto ANOTHER trial and made it seem like a single trial, just to get your 'men are rapists' point across? A spelling error is a mistake, what you did with the copy-and-paste propaganda reporting was deliberate. Nobody believes the excuse that it was a mistake.
You want to start removing the hate speech from the world? Start by giving up your editorial desires, as you are quite obviously part of the problem you claim to be against.
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» RE: This from the guy who copied and pasted a story together...
Posted by: bettsoff
» RE: This from the guy who copied and pasted a story together...
Posted by: joeblo
» ?
Posted by: RobbieUMD
» RE: This from the guy who copied and pasted a story together...
Posted by: bettsoff
» RE: This from the guy who copied and pasted a story together...
Posted by: eringhorm
» RE: This from the guy who copied and pasted a story together...
Posted by: joeblo
» RE: This from the guy who copied and pasted a story together...
Posted by: yellow
» RE: This from the guy who copied and pasted a story together...
Posted by: joeblo
» RE: This from the guy who copied and pasted a story together...
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: gazooks on Apr 12, 2006 6:11 AM
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It's really one of our more charming delusions.
I think that it was a really bad idea for any one group of humans at any point in history, to assume that their relationship with a supposed creator held status above another. Must have been some killer fungus.
As for me, I'm content to join my Jewish friends for a Passover dinner of fresh Christian baby, .... delicious with a mango salsa.
Then, wearing my new GOT GOD? T-shirt, a pleasant walk up the hill to urinate on the still smoldering, self exploding mosque.
Ain't life akbar?
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 12, 2006 6:38 AM
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Israeli actions in Palestine seem to be fairly similar to the rounding up of Jews into ghettos in the late 1930's in Germany. Perhaps they could have all Palestinians in Israel wear a gold cresent on their chest - oh, but their skin color is different, so that isn't necessay. I find it completely shocking that Israel has such a racist attitude - didn't they study the Holocaust? How can Israeli leaders carry out the same kind of actions that Nazi leaders initiated? Can we put it down to something like the cycle of child abuse?
Of course, if you look into the details, the concept of 'race' is a social definition, and as a biological definition it does not have any merit - regardless of what generations of social-genetic Darwinists would have you believe. Scientific racism is just a perversion of basic scientific principles - but it was one of the bulwarks of Nazi ideology, and the influence of primitive 'in-group/out-group' modes of thinking continues today.
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» Race and Religion...
Posted by: chasaturn
» Thank you
Posted by: RobbieUMD
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: Newtopia
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: RobbieUMD
» RE:the absurdity of race
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: Newtopia
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: chuckville
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: chuckville
» RE: Thank you - see "Rabbit Proof Fence"
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: hmmm? on Apr 12, 2006 7:56 AM
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» Al Franken
Posted by: RobbieUMD
» RE: Honest question: How many Jewish Americans DID die in 9/11?
Posted by: Jimbo
» RE: Honest question: How many Jewish Americans DID die in 9/11?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Honest question: How many Jewish Americans DID die in 9/11?
Posted by: mythbuster
» RE: Honest question: How many Jewish Americans DID die in 9/11?
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Jimbo on Apr 12, 2006 9:12 AM
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Ok, Im missing something here. What about god infecting the Egyptians with plagues as revenge for enslaving the Isrealites? What about god parting the sea? That sounds like an individual god protecting an individual group to me.
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» RE: Individual god, individual groups ?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Individual god, individual groups ?
Posted by: mythbuster
» RE: Individual god, individual groups ?
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: Roverton on Apr 12, 2006 9:32 AM
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I love my species. No apology. We're infants and infants make mistakes. Some fatal. If our emenie's confusion is the crime, then what's the long term answer? Love. Then we join up.
It hasn't always been an unrealistic fantasy to believe in that. I remember an enormous amount of change brought on by using idealism as a beacon.
Humankind is capable of waking up and not attacking itself. Even the "Bad Guys" have eyes.
Who knows?
Who really knows?
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Posted by: SevenStarHand on Apr 12, 2006 12:35 PM
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If you want to understand why the "powers that be" seem increasingly desperate in the last few years, visit my web site and let everyone know that your leaders, their cohorts, and the Vatican are desperately trying to distract humanity from understanding that I am here now, though hidden as a thief.
I've made sure that the Bush-Cheney crew and the Vatican are fully aware of my presence and identity in recent months. Now you have proof that they are desperately trying to keep people from understanding the truth about many things.
Don't let them succeed. Let everyone know that I am here now and the leaders of this world are actively conspiring to keep everyone from understanding who I am and why they are opposing me and those of like mind.
Read my articles and FREE E-Book for stunning and comprehensive proof of the hidden agenda of the Bush-Cheney crew and their links to the Vatican. They don’t want you to learn that all three so-called Faiths of Abraham are purposeful deceptions secretly controlled by the Vatican and its secret-society cohorts, who are the hidden sources of world-wide terrorism.
http://www.geocities.com/sevenstarhand/articles.html
http://www.geocities.com/sevenstarhand/summary.html
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» RE: Another Machiavellian Red Herring to hide the truth...
Posted by: Llama11
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Posted by: chanceny on Apr 12, 2006 1:49 PM
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» RE: HOLY ----
Posted by: BlueTigress
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Posted by: Elisha on Apr 12, 2006 2:14 PM
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There is a slightly abridged version of some of the content of the “Protocols” in a book called Shillum which can be found at this link.
Chapter 3 is about the Protocols. (word search for “little book” without quotes) A few excerpts follow.
“We shall deal with the news media in the following way: what is the part played by the news media today? It serves to excite and inflame those passions which are needed for our purposes, or else it serves the selfish goals of groups of individuals.”
“Literature and journalism are two of the most important educational forces, therefore, our government will become proprietor of the majority of the journals and news media productions.”
“We shall. . . establish huge monopolies, reservoirs of colossal riches [International Banking], that even the large economies of the nations will depend on it to such an extent that they will go to the bottom together with the credit of the nations on the day after the political smash.”
“Whenever we encounter any nation which dares to oppose us, we must be prepared to incite war and join with its neighbors against it; but if those neighboring countries should also venture to stand together against us, then we must create resistance by inciting a universal war.”
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» RE: Is The Content True?
Posted by: zipper696
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Posted by: PEEK on Apr 12, 2006 2:52 PM
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As for anyone, such as the above commenter, who suggests that ANY part of the Protocols is "true," I respond in the only way appropriate: Pleeeeease. Are you joking? Take the vacuous bigotry elsewhere....
Evan
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» RE: SPONSE IN BLOGS
Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» RE: RESPONSE IN BLOGS
Posted by: thweems
» RE: SPONSE IN BLOGS
Posted by: yellow
» RE: SPONSE IN BLOGS
Posted by: thweems
» RE: SPONSE IN BLOGS
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: medstudgeek on Apr 12, 2006 10:22 PM
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Sure there are Jewish conservatives...Murray Rothbard, Frank Chodorov, and Ayn Rand on the libertarian side and all the neocons. The head of the RNC is Jewish. But Jews are predominantly liberal, and that's naturally going to piss off Republicans. "Fuck the Jews, they didn't vote for us anyway," James Baker said. Well, yeah, they didn't.
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Posted by: Newtopia on Apr 13, 2006 6:37 AM
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What's relevant is that Israel is an apartheid state guilty of widescale human rights atrocities. They are a brutal and selfish people (meaning Israelites, not "The Jews") who have sucked up every single dollar, natural resource, and acre in the region, all at the peril and expense of the Palestinians, who live in destitute poverty in "shanty" towns under a military occupation. Israel should be judged on their behavior since their (still) illegal formation in 1949, which includes 5 wars of aggression and a 40 year illegal occupation of Palestine. Plus, they have an illlegal and undocumented nuclear weapons program with over 200 warheads, and here we are squawking about hitting Iran for warheads they don;t even have yet.
Israel is the South Africa of the 21st Century, and they should be held accountable on the world stage. And this shreiking Cassandra "You're an anti-Semite if you question us" bullshit the Jews foist on the rest of the world, particularly Americans, is simply unforgiveable. Worse genocides than the Holocaust have happened in history, and none of those peoples have risen to the heights of power and influence that Israel has.
If it was any other nation, they'd probably be invaded and occupied by the US by now, if not economically destroyed like we did to Argentina, Mexico, Russia, Poland, the Asian Tiger, etc, etc.
But no...Israel gets 13 Billion a year from us instead.
It makes me want to puke.
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» RE: So what...
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: So what...
Posted by: chuckville
» RE: So what...
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: So what...
Posted by: chuckville
» RE: So what...
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: So what...
Posted by: Newtopia
» RE: So what...
Posted by: Llama11
» RE: So what...Newtopia, Chuck and Llama
Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: So what...Newtopia, Chuck and Llama
Posted by: yellow
» RE: So what...Newtopia, Chuck and Llama
Posted by: chuckville
» RE: So what...Newtopia, Chuck and Llama
Posted by: yellow
» RE: So what...Newtopia, Chuck and Llama
Posted by: Newtopia
» RE: So what...Newtopia, Chuck and Llama
Posted by: Llama11
» RE: So what...Newtopia, Chuck and Llama
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: incenseman on Apr 13, 2006 2:07 PM
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» RE: There no quotes from the book
Posted by: zipper696
» RE: There no quotes from the book
Posted by: incenseman
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Posted by: paulmccollum527 on Apr 16, 2006 11:37 AM
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So the longer we keep mentioning the one part of the anti semetic conspiracy angle without saying the full truth of why that single peace of information about why the Jewish people really were forewarned, then we are voluntarily playing the game known as, you guessed it, "The Sport of Distraction" with major dosses of denial and apathy being used like steroids to help win the game.
thanks
Paul
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Posted by: monsieurbill on Apr 16, 2006 2:05 PM
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It should also be noted that Levin has tried to use his film as a vehicle to spur dialogue. Invited to screenings in NY were a few prominent Jew bashing African American leaders(much to the chagrin of more mainstream Jewish elements who not only opposed that but also the making of the film altogether). At least one left saying that the film raised some questions for him. Dialogue started. What a concept!
The bottom line is this, kids. Racism of any sort is vile. And that includes anti-semitism(be it against Jews or Arabs). As a more or less secular Jew who marched against the Iraq war in SF and who has used the Passover seder on a few occasions to bring up the "occupation"(this is not self-congratulatory, just a fact), I am disturbed by the notion that is peretrated by many on the progressive side that if only there was no occupation(or Israel, for some),there would be no anti-semitism. Who the hell are you kidding? Anti-Jewish sentiment and persecution existed long,long before the emergence of the state of Israel! And, with the silence of many on the progressive side as well as the ongoing demonization by many in the Arab world(and,increasingly,in some parts of the European population as well), it continues to thrive. Accept that it exists, say that is unequivocably wrong and anti-human(no matter what the Israelis do). And when somebody talks about "the Jews" as if we're one homogeneous group with global control aspirations, challenge them on it!
While this movie may have bit off more than it could chew, it raises many disturbing and thought provoking points. See it and then come back to the table to discuss it. That's the least you could do.
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Posted by: cerveny1 on Apr 16, 2006 3:13 PM
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I challenge Joshua on every occasion because I disagree with him and his beliefs. He and I have both exchanged ad-hominem attacks – he seems to be a real tough guy though, given to Lee Marvin-esque outbursts but yet he whines to a friend and poof I’m gone or maybe he is the BIG PRICK who moderates the whole thing. In any event he actually represents much of what is wrong with this site and to a greater extent, what is wrong with America. We are discussing such topics as War, Racism, Fascism, Sexism, Capitalism, Socialism, etc. and yet are asked to keep the kid gloves on. Funny, one would think that people with enough conviction to come in here and discuss these topics would have thicker skin, and apparently most do except that little BITCH ASS TRICK JOSHUA LUDD. Keep him in mind when he attacks you personally and calls you a “reprehensible, murderous hypocrite” or this little pearl he threw out there – “Good for you. You still didn't serve. As my grandfather... a WW2 vet would say "close only counts in hand grenades and horseshoes". Either you served or you didn't, and you, you chickenhawk piece of shit, DID NOT.” Funny Josh is beyond reproach much like our own president and the man he was criticizing in that thread – Colin Powell. Who is going to censure or ban you Josh? What about that post wasn’t a personal attack and profane?
I think many of you would be interested in knowing that Little Joshie is running a pseudo-intellectual pyramid blogging scam – fucking hilarious Josh!!!! What is it called Josh – Blogging for Bucks?? LMAO!!!
No I understand why you have this incestuous little relationship with Alternet.org. You are giving each other the reach-around eh JOSHUADUDD? You’re nothing but a little blog twink are you? This is the real progressive thinker you all are dealing with. WHAT A FUCKING LOSER!! Here’s his pitch spoken like a good little Neo-con:
“Write a blog. Make Money.
There are millions of people who want to work from home but don't know how.There are millions of people who know how to write.There are millions of people who know how to write, but don't know how to make money with it.We KNOW how to make money with content people write. This site was designed to allow YOU to write content which WE will market and we will ALL make money.We'll make the money for you!
Then, we split the money,
50/50. Not only that but we'll also place your ads on the blogs of people you refer to writingUp.”
CHECK IT OUT HERE – PIMP YOURSELF OUT!!
http://www.writingup.com/write_a_blog_make_money
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» RE: JOSHUADUDD - INTERNET WHORE
Posted by: PEEK
» Whats it all about?
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
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