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Immigration Debate Creates Strange Bedfellows

By Maria Luisa Tucker, AlterNet. Posted April 10, 2006.


White supremacists are cuddling up to anti-immigrant Republicans, and Latino civil rights groups are siding with corporate lobbyists. No matter which side you're on, you're in bad company.

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Throughout the dramatic highs and lows of the Senate's immigration debate, one thing has rung true; no matter which side of the debate you are on, you are in bad company.

Anti-immigrant groups that claim to be the voice of the American working class are being joined, to their dismay, by white supremacists and militant nativists calling for violence. Meanwhile, pro-immigrant Latino civil rights organizations like the National Council of La Raza are reluctantly standing next to big business lobby groups. As Cecilia Muñoz, vice president for policy at La Raza, said this week: "Civil rights and business are together -- and we're not often allies."

Around the country -- and even here on AlterNet's pages -- this debate has not adhered to party lines. Last Thursday, a coalition of big business Republicans and liberal Democrats proudly announced a bipartisan compromise on immigration reform -- a bill providing a path to citizenship for an estimated 7 or 8 million illegal immigrants, as well as a guest worker program and enhanced border enforcement. On Friday, a bipartisan group blocked the compromise measure. (The debate will pick up again after legislators' two-week Easter break.)

The Senate's Thursday morning compromise and Friday afternoon fumble were not about partisanship. All of it, from the legislative battle to the rallies in the streets and the Minutemen border patrols, has been about how each of us, as individuals, view Latin American immigrants in this country.

The white supremacists, anti-immigrant legislators and many working-class American citizens regard the mass of brown people -- desperate for work and tending to have lots of children -- as a threat, though for wildly different reasons. Nativists and xenophobes may fear the "browning" of white America -- a fear of becoming a minority and having to share power with the "other." Workers worry about the real threat of weakened labor rights and blame immigrants for low wages. Immigrants are a convenient scapegoat in this country, where poor citizens often remain poor no matter how hard they work. Many poorly educated African-American men continue to face fierce discrimination and high unemployment rates.

Meanwhile, big business lobbyists, many unions, churches and American-born Latinos stand on the opposite side, viewing (legal or illegal) Latin American immigrants as a natural part of American life -- one we can't imagine America without. For many corporations, the construction industry, hotel and restaurant owners, and farms, immigrants are a dependable, steady supply of cheap labor. (And according to the Pew Hispanic Center report illegal immigrants comprise as much as 24 percent of the work force in farming, and 17 percent in cleaning.)

To unions, they are a sleeping giant that could, if mobilized, reinvigorate the waning power of labor. To the church, they are the base of Catholicism, the poor and hungry that scripture says to feed, clothe and shelter. And for American Latinos and many fellow immigrants, they are our relatives and friends, people like us, or in the same boat our parents and grandparents were in. They are people who, like the millions of immigrants before them, are desperately seeking the elusive American dream. And for that, we cannot fault them.

From the beginning of this political upheaval, our polarized views of the Latin American busboy/farmworker/maid have shaped fundamentals of the debate. While the white men in suits on both sides of the aisle agreed long ago that the country needed to reform its immigration laws, the two sides of the debate never actually agreed on what the problem was. One side saw bad laws; the other side saw bad lawbreakers. For legislators who sympathize with illegal immigrants, the problem they see is that of exploited laborers, people dying in the deserts in attempts to cross the border illegally and unrealistic immigration limits. For those who view illegal immigrants as scabs and parasites, the problem has been one of enforcement -- how to jail, deport and keep out immigrants in order to ensure the welfare of "real" Americans.


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Maria Luisa Tucker is an AlterNet staff writer.

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If they break the LAW.... then we ALL Can
Posted by: thinkverybig on Apr 10, 2006 12:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I personally don't think those who are anti-illegal immigration are racist or anything near it. If someone has entered this country illegally, yet benefit from American taxpayers should be shipped back to their country effective immediately, in my opinion. Those who enter illegally are taking jobs and money away from Americans plain and simple. The Country where the undocumented worker is from should be held accountable for not providing opportunities to work and live comfortably not America. Corporations of course would like to continue abusing illegal immigrants by offering substandard wages which in turn hurt Americans but are not held accountable when they should be. Americans should be protesting our own government for allowing corporations to deflate our very own standard of living with undocumented workers and outsourcing jobs to other countries. How does breaking the law gives you the right to protest? In that case someone else can break the law by robbing a bank and expect not to be prosecuted. Breaking the law is breaking the law regardless and breaking the law doesn't mean you're suppose to be rewarded for doing so. It's time those who are for upholding the law to protest by calling your representative and voicing your opinion about undocumented workers being in this country illegally. It's time the government start upholding the law. If not then that means it's OK to break the law and not be prosecuted. It's time for a change in government, our systems and those who are suppose to represent us. It's time for a REVOLUTION. It's TIME for a REVOLUTION.


I'm in the beginning stages of creating "WeMustChange.org" and I would like for those who are interested in volunteering their expertise to email me at david@thinkverybig.com

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» &@$&%$#&*( Posted by: decembrist
» RE: &@$&%$#&*( Posted by: walnuts4000
» RE: &@$&%$#&*( Posted by: Flaire
» RE: &@$&%$#&*( Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: &@$&%$#&*( Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: &@$&%$#&*( Posted by: owleyes
» RE: &@$&%$#&*( Posted by: Flaire
pfft
Posted by: nbrown on Apr 10, 2006 12:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Strange bedfellows, Republicans and white supremacists? Racism is one of the core drives behind GOP politics.

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» RE: pfft Posted by: dlf
And if Bush breaks the law, he just walks off?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 10, 2006 2:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Republicans are all for the rule of law - for other people!

Bush lied to Congress and the American people about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and so started an illegal war. He lied about chemical weapons, about biological weapons, and about nuclear weapons. His actions resulted in the needless deaths of thousands of American soldiers - far more then the 3,000 reported so far - many died back on US soil, technically not 'in Iraq' (crime#1).

Bush insitituted a domestic spying program using the NSA and other government agencies in direct violation of the US Consititution, which he calls "just a piece of paper"; he used this program to target individuals for political purposes (crime#2).

Bush failed to act on FBI warnings of impending terrorist attacks in the US prior to 9/11, even though he received an August 6th, 2001 presidential daily briefing titled "Osama Bin Ladin Determined to Strike in the US". His failure to act resulted in thousands of dead American citizens (crime#3).

Bush and Cheney revealed the identity of an undercover CIA agent, Valerie Plame, in order to attack her husband who had revealed that the Niger uranium story was false; see crime#1 above. This action again put US security at risk and destroyed a network which was looking into nuclear weapons (crime#4).

Bush participated in a rigged election in 2000, and probably in 2004 as well, and continues to promote hackable electronic voting systems that are owned and operated by his corrupt rebuplican cronies, therby perverting the democratic process (crime#5).

Bush is a liar - repeatedly, perhaps compulsively - perhaps not a 'crime' as he has never been forced to testify under oath, but certainly unethical and slimy. He is corrupt, dishonest and unfit to be President due to his fundamental lack of respect for constitutional law and democratic principles.

And we are supposed to be angry about some illegal immigrants coming over the border to pick crops? Please... who is the real lawbreaker here?

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considerations seldom mentioned
Posted by: wli on Apr 10, 2006 3:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Part of the innate advantage of capital over labor is capital's far greater mobility. Workers are confined by a myriad borders, while capital moves at will. Illegal immigration is, in effect, a response to this, where workers in desperation try to achieve some measure of mobility in order to match capital.

From this perspective, the entire notion of an "illegitimate worker" is little more than one stripped of the usual protections provided by the state. Indeed, illegal immigrants are working for well under minimum wage, and are so completely subordinated by the threat of deportation they dare not breathe the word "union" even in labor-unrelated senses. The utility of the illegal immigrant to the corporations is even greater than the low wage; it furthermore depresses the wages more generally. If illegal immigrants were indeed granted amnesty, they would be entitled to the same labor protections as ordinary citizens such as the minimum wage, and would in fact become ordinary citizens.

The effects are more far-reaching still: should the illegal immigrants become ordinary citizens, how would they vote? At first glance, it's doubtful they'd vote for those who want to deport them so badly or despise them for "browning" America. More information is needed, e.g. are they so religious they'd vote for Republicans anyway? If you make them citizens, are they going to vote for an anti-abortion regime on par with El Salvador? Will 12 million ardent Catholics vote to tear down the wall between Church and State en bloc? Or will 12 million heavily-exploited workers vote for pro-labor politicians? The answer to this question is an unspoken subtext to much of the "debate."

Yet another unconsidered issue is regional integration. Thus far it's been limited to military affairs (e.g. NORTHCOM unilaterally asserting military control over Canada and Mexico), NAFTA, CAFTA, FTAA, WTO, et al, which have done little more than set up sub-subsistence wage maquiladoras in Mexico and thrust entire classes of laborers in the US into poverty (the military affairs appear to be largely negligible, apart from being quite insulting gross violations of the sovereignties of Canada and Mexico). The point here is that there is a double standard: for capital there is complete freedom of movement, but workers there is abject immobility, barring illegal immigration. A more equitable arrangement wouldn't consist of second-class citizenship, guest worker/bracero programs, or green cards being handed out like candy, but supranational integration on the order of the EU. This is, of course, not even a remote possibility owing to the gross military and economic disparities involved. Yet it remains an important underlying consideration as various of the economic and political factors are the tension between this "gravitational force" of regional integration, and the countervailing force of corporate exploitation of labor and racist divide-and-conquer schemes.

These issues are not going to be decided by the general public (c.f. Democratic Façade), but the implications need to be understood beyond cherrypicking labor vs. capital out of context when the issue is much broader.

(My preference, is, of course, for dubbing them US citizens en masse and so affording them the labor protections of such and hence "raising the floor" of wages and workers' rights. I also favor explicit supranational integration of the whole of the Western Hemisphere, not just North America, on a democratic vs. plutocratic basis, but consider it so unrealistic in the current political climate as to not really consider it wise to pursue, lest it result in more fascist garbage along the lines of NAFTA, CAFTA, and the FTAA. I speak of political integration, e.g. parliament, executive, judiciary, not corporatist economic fascism.)

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» That was excellent. Posted by: YogiBear
corporatists
Posted by: lclark on Apr 10, 2006 3:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When hundreds of thousands of citizens gathered in Washington to protest the war in Iraq there was little coverage in the mass media. However, the gathering of illegal migrants was covered in detail with the view that this was a problem that needed to be resolved.

NBC is the corporate parent of the Spanish speaking radio stations that raied the called in preparation for the marches, one of the same corporate controls that suppressed the coverage of protests against the current administration.

And just like with NAFTA, legislation opposed by the majority of Americans, you see the odd coming together of our 'representatives' to advance more legislation that citizens to not want.

The migrants are exploited horribly, but they are also being used to advance a corporatist agenda with the goal of weakening the sovreignty of this nation and replacing a democratic republic with a non democratic mish mash of non-governmental organizations, treaties with transnational governing bodies whose 'authority' transcend the laws of separate nations, and environmental, economic, and political goals that are decided by the wealthiest to the detriment of average people.

Look at the big picture. We're being had big time.

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» RE: corporatists Posted by: dlf
» RE: corporatists Posted by: jiminator
Just In Passing
Posted by: dlf on Apr 10, 2006 4:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(And according to the Pew Hispanic Center report illegal immigrants comprise as much as 24 percent of the work force in farming, and 17 percent in cleaning.)

This writer has conveniently failed to mention that the 24% of illegals who occupy farm labor jobs only represent 3.7% of the labor segment. This is the kind of propaganda being spread by media. By the way did anyone catch on CNN that even the Pentagon is letting their illegal and legal immigrants off today to protest? Guess since NBC is a big defense contractor they will have to continue towing the party line (it's only fake news if we disagree). And I noticed that LA RAZA is supported by WAL-MART who has been villified on Alternet pages but, I guess they're not all bad if they support illegal immigration. We know they do in their hiring practices, now we know they put their money where their mouth is.

At some point Alternet may need to look at their roster of contributors and honestly address why I shouldn't think that there appears to be a concerted effort to bring Hispanic issues into the mainstream fold, while you maintain a paltry 2 Black male regular contributors. I'm sure I will be viewed as a racist for pointing this never discussed fact to the fore. That's part of the pattern of deflect and dismiss the real issue.

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» RE: Just In Passing Posted by: symcokid
the elite would be proud of your propaganda skills, maria (part 1)
Posted by: cry0fan on Apr 10, 2006 4:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
first, let's examine Maria's propaganda:


White supremacists are cuddling up to anti-immigrant Republicans, and Latino civil rights groups are siding with corporate lobbyists. No matter which side you're on, you're in bad company.


So, maria takes a FEW people, like KKKers, who are actually as rare as hens' teeth, and plucks them out of a SEA of humanity, and chooses them to represent the TENS of MILLIONS of white working class citizens who are tired of our wages being depressed by labor market manipulation through mass immigration.
Oh, and they CUDDLE UP! Like snakes or deadly tarantulas! Very good imagery, there, Maria!


VERY GOOD, maria! You have learned well from your corpwhorate masters! You will no doubt get a job as a journalist or get a grant from a nonprofit foundation so you can carry on the propaganda campaign and get paid for it. Or maybe you already GOT that grant from some nonprofit foundation? Funded by plutocrats, these nonprofit foundations are the mouthpiece of the elite; they have generated so much propaganda since the decades since they were created that they have evolved a new left for America, one that is domesticated to served the needs of the upper class and the corpwhorate world.
Read Joan Roelofs' book MASK OF PLURALITY for more details.



Throughout the dramatic highs and lows of the Senate's immigration debate, one thing has rung true; no matter which side of the debate you are on, you are in bad company.


No, maria, you just created a STRAWMAN to represent OUR SIDE. We are the American citizen workers. We and our ancestors BUILT this land. It is ours. The upper class and their media and nonprofit foundations obscure the real sides. It's called strategy, and they act in their own best interests.



Anti-immigrant groups that claim to be the voice of the American working class are being joined, to their dismay, by white supremacists and militant nativists calling for violence. Meanwhile, pro-immigrant Latino civil rights organizations like the National Council of La Raza are reluctantly standing next to big business lobby groups. As Cecilia Muñoz, vice president for policy at La Raza, said this week: "Civil rights and business are together -- and we're not often allies."


"Anti IMMIGRANT"...."white supremacists and militant nativists," huh? Not "anti-MASS IMMIGRATION American citizen workers"? "pro-immigrant Latino", not "illegal labor scabs"?

Good for you, Maria! Demonize the working class Americans who are being victimized by the labor scabs and their upper class and corpwhorate collaborators, and beatify the labor scabs and their collaborators. There ya go!



The white supremacists, anti-immigrant legislators and many working-class American citizens regard the mass of brown people -- desperate for work and tending to have lots of children -- as a threat, though for wildly different reasons.


"Brown people", huh? Gotta touch on that "you are a racist if you oppose illegal immigration" propaganda, maria! THe corpwhorate elite spent many many millions on propaganda over the past couple of decades in order to build a race-guilt touchstone in white liberals. That is how they control us. Good job, maria!

more below in part 2

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» Yeah, some facts would be nice... Posted by: medstudgeek
The missing...
Posted by: numen on Apr 10, 2006 5:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In Maria's loving and incessantly repeated ugly categorization of those against illegal immigration, she conveniently ignores the two groups who are the most badly hurt by illegal immigration: legal immigrants and Blacks. Her protrayal might not have supported her point if she had left them in.

Each wave of illegal immigrants lowers the wages and benefits of the wave that came before, and each amnesty will ensure the next wave will be ten times as large as the last, until all working class jobs in America pay the same as Mexico.

Which will be fine by Maria because she expects a nice cushy job telling us all how happy we all are as peasants on her bosses' latifundias.

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» RE: The missing... Posted by: dlf
Laws already exist that criminalize illegal immigrants. They are not enforced!
Posted by: Prophit on Apr 10, 2006 5:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The official plan has been to criminalize illegal immigrants, as the Sensenbrenner bill would do; the unofficial plan has been to terrorize them"

But what is new? No one bothers to follow the law here anymore. Even our own President, so the new laws proposed won't do any good anyway. They won't be enforced. I am just surprised that this author on Alternet, ONCE AGAIN, is misquoting THE FACTS. How come he didn't bring up existing law and talk about that?

His arguements for LEGAL IMMIGRATION ARE VALID, but he doesn't discuss that, only the POOR ILLEGALS and how its rascist to disagree and God help you if you go against the "Poverty Law Center" whose word on everything is unquestioned. Does anyone remember their racist attack against the American Indians?

They are a bigger danger to America than the Supremecists because they have major financing from foreign countries to do what they do and that is to keep us stirred up and pit one group against another. I am afraid this has gone way beyond what the powers that be can control.

You have illegals marching who are suppose to be poor slaves here that even I believed until this demonstration of support by BIG BUSINESS who is giving them these days off with pay to march. Who are the traitors???

Its TIME WE CALLED ON THESE CORPORATE TRAITORS TO CEASE AND DESIST OR ARREST THEM FOR THE TREASON THEY ARE ENGAGING IN. Boycott these businesses. If we don't, we will be living 20 to a house like our fellow illegals are doing should these corp have their say in anything.

This author should be writing about changing the situation in Mexico to aid more of these people than bringing them here in herds to destroy what we have built over many years. Instead of bringing Mexico UP, these liberals want to BRING AMERICA DOWN TO MEXICOS LEVEL. What nonsense is that????

And I know Tancredo, he is not a right wing nut. He is normally a moderate conservative, so your name calling and labelling is intentional in order to discredit his incredible work in this area.

I don't trust you guys either now. Something stinks here? Who supports this site????

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welcome to coalition politics
Posted by: Spot on Apr 10, 2006 6:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the concept that people of opposing viewpoints can work together toward a common goal is only foreign in the ironically titled "united" states. in other, shall we say functioning?, governments, the coalition is the bread and butter of politics. people do not vote for a blanket party, which will toe the line on every issue, but for representatives which stand for something, perhaps something as simple and stand-alone as anti-imigration, or maybe as 'grand' as capitalism.
it is an insult to the intelligence of americans that we continue to vote for people who we consider 'safe' or 'the lesser of two evils'. it is hightime we elected representatives who have at least ONE of our goals in mind, and let them hammer out the details with other representatives elected to do the same.

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Anybody ever notice how...
Posted by: medstudgeek on Apr 10, 2006 6:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Every time there's an article on immigration the balance of the comments on Alternet always oppose immigration, in many cases going to great pains to separate themselves from racism?

There are closet racists on the anti-immigration side but do you really think they go to the trouble of posting misleading comments on left-wing sites? There is a huge majority of people who are against more immigration and the elites of both sides oppose them. Notice that civil rights *leaders* are supporting immigration while ordinary blacks frequently oppose it. Why? Because, for sociological reasons, young black men always go to the bottom of the employment pile. Immigrants take spots ahead of them. The only way to help black people out of poverty is to create a scarcity of labor. Civil rights leaders want to increase the nonwhite population of America in order to increase the power they command; while working-class blacks might theoretically benefit from a more powerful Democratic party (and this is iffy given Bush's improved showing among Latinos) they lose too much in the short term from competition.

If Alternet insists on spewing this PC tripe lefties interested in improving the lot of the American working class will have to look elsewhere. Does anybody know a good lefty site that is pro-worker and pro-American? The 'paleocons' like Pat Buchanan actually share many of my views as far as economic and foreign policy (not social issues), but they are only a few decades removed from the men in white sheets in the South (and in many cases are the same men!)

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» Could be right... Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: Anybody ever notice how... Posted by: VisionQuest
» RE: Anybody ever notice how... Posted by: Seabrook
» RE: Anybody ever notice how... Posted by: Seabrook
"A place at the table..."
Posted by: Gma1 on Apr 10, 2006 8:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Yet the grassroots outcry for compassionate immigration reform has come from fellow blue collars. And the outcry continues. Today, hundreds of thousands of people are participating in a National Day of Action calling for a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants. Immigrant rights groups, student groups and unions who are organizing rallies said they expect millions of people in scores of cities to drop work or school on Monday, April 10, in a populist call for lawmakers to view their busboys, gardeners and homebuilders as workers who deserve a place at the American table."

Seems like illegal aliens have had a place at the American table for many years. They have had a place at the hospital emergency rooms, the welfare offices, and now they are taking construction jobs for $8.00 an hour that once paid $22.00 to American citizens. Does anyone really believe that these folks pay taxes - maybe a few, but most with large families pay no taxes. We can thank companies like Halliburton and the Bush administration for this. Yes, we need immigration reform. But first we need to secure the borders or we will have a repeat of 1986.

Those "fellow blue collars" of course, are the unions. Wouldn't they love to have 12 million (or more) new members.

What Ms. Tucker seems to forget is the fact that all those legal immigrants did not break the law. They all waited in line, learned to read and write English, studied the American Constitution and applied for citizenship. What an insult it is to these fine people from all over the world, including Mexico and South American countries to hand citizenship to illegal aliens. I am not a racist. I come from immigrants as do we all. I believe that if we do not uphold the law then we are not a democracy. What will we become. What do you call a government of business, by business and for business. What does a $2,000. fine and back taxes (what taxes?) mean to someone who is not documented; someone who has already paid (and perhaps is still owing) the person or persons who smuggled them into the country. If he/she were paid "under the table" where are the records of how long they have been here, how much money they have made. FIRST LET'S SPEND THE MONEY TO SECURE THE BORDERS. Then we can begin to work out a plan to legalize illegals.

As long as we allow it, Mexico will continue to abuse the poor, and not make an effort to upgrade it's own economy and stop its own corruption. Reform needs to begin IN MEXICO. They should follow the example of some of the South American countries who are trying to upgrade their economy for the good of their people.

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You still fail to Address many Aspects to this Issue
Posted by: russellcole38 on Apr 10, 2006 8:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I recently was informed of the fact that the highschool dropout rate in this country is somewhere between 20 to 30 percent. Of course, there are a variety of explanations for this social-phenomenon; however, this trend raises much concern with respect to allowing the ongoing saturation of the unskilled and semi-silled labor-markets, resulting from the influx of illegal immigration. Considering that most experts seem to propose reform to the educational system that includes vocational training for those who are at high-risk for highschool drop-out, I am left wondering how this sentiment to open the border with Mexico is, at all, realistic, when such a high proportion of this population are essentially condemned to a position within the socio-economic hierarchy that depends on the types of occupations for which illegal immigrant labor competes.

There are other obvious issues that must be addressed, which advocates of border-crimes and black-market employment practices conveniently ignore when exuding their typical neo-Liberal rhetoric. We are currently experiencing a health-care crisis in this country and no reasonable solution has been introduced into public dialog. Legitimizing, through legislative reform, what is currently a crime - the illegal migration of laborers - will only exacerbate a problem, which, under present conditions, we have no substantive proposal with respect to its solution.

Additionally, after reading the discourse that is generated by many of the Latino, illegal immigration advocacy groups, I am forced to conclude that a major motivation for their activist efforts is the incentive of procuring political power by proliferating the Latino communities in conjunction with reforming citizenship legislation, which would provide these organizations with a greater electoral base with which to influence polity and the distribution of social-resources. I, of course, have no problem with this; however, it should be noted that the claims of these organizations that illegal immigrants contribute substantially to the wealth of this nation are absolutely fallacious. The social-resources that are consumed by this segment of the population greatly exceed any revenues that are accrued through taxation and so forth.

This nation is on the brink of economic disaster, due to its dependence upon foreign investitures for sustaining the job market. The only condition that attracts foreign investments is America's massive consumer market. In conjunction with factors such as the ever-increasing level of debt that is being accumulated by America's middle-class, the ongoing injection of competition into America's labor-markets creates additional pressures affecting this tenious Geo-economic system of relationships, which will eventually surpass a theshold, resulting in America's economic collapse.

On a final note, I am so very tired of people framing this argument as if it has anything to do with immigration. Already, over a million citizens of Mexico are provided with the opportunity to LEGALLY immigrate to America. We are discussing an issue that concerns the illegal residency of people who pay no heed to the laws of the country, from which they subsequently demand previleges. This issue pertains to illegal border crossings. It certainly has nothing to do with America's tradition of immigration.

People who advocate illegal immigration would be well-served to end this ridiculous sophistry, and begin to address the realities of this situation. I was originally quite sympathetic to the cause, advocating illegal immigration, until I grew frustrated with mischaracterizations of this social-problem and started to perform research concerning this issue.

Russell Cole

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Yowsa
Posted by: stormchilde1975 on Apr 10, 2006 8:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do find it somewhat curious that Alternet is of one mind on the immigaration issue. There seem to be many readers who are staunchly (fanatically?) opposed to illegal immigration, and Alternet is failing to address their concerns while continually propounding the opposite point of view.

One of the rules of good philosophical debate is to anticipate and respond to objections. Well, Alternet, the burden of anticipating is off your shoulders - the objections are on the table. Will someone please respond? My vote is for Joshua Holland, who does his homework and knows his sources as well as anyone here.

As to the opponents of illegal immigration (and apparently of Alternet), you've got to start doing a better, smarter job. There is a time and place for polemical ranting. I've been known to admire and even employ it. But it is not called for on this issue. As much as you would like to make it seem otherwise, the intertwining of the American economy with its illegal participants is too fine and complex to permit nuance-free posturing. Commenting on any economic issue requires plenty of careful study - often sorting out equally credible and totally conflicting data. Throw in the fact that no reliable census of illegals can be made and the fact that race and racial tension are undeniably party to the issue, and you have a recipe for bias and error.

No one has explained the issue to my satisfaction yet, but I'm not about to take sides with a jerk. If you're going to come out and be a jerk about it, just don't waste your time. Your tone leads me to believe that without appealing to raw nerves and knee-jerk emotions, you have no case.

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» RE: Yowsa Posted by: dlf
» RE: Yowsa Posted by: Gma1
» RE: Yowsa Posted by: sausage
» Well . . . Posted by: stormchilde1975
» Never mind Posted by: stormchilde1975
» RE: Never mind Posted by: dlf
» RE: Yowsa Posted by: russellcole38
» RE: Yowsa Posted by: yellow
UNCOUNTED UNEMPLOYED are the people in the shadows
Posted by: plantland on Apr 10, 2006 8:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Citizens who have been laid off but who are no longer receiving unemployment benefits per se DON'T FIGURE IN TO THE OFFICIAL UNEMPLOYMENT RATE. ( OR THE RATE WOULD BE FAR HIGHER.
NOR DO PEOPLE WILLING TO WORK WHO NEVER DID LAND THE FIRST JOB COUNT IN THE OFFICAL UNEMPLOYMENT RATE.

IF ANYONE IS TO BE "BROUGHT OUT OF THE SHADOWS", THESE PEOPLE SHOULD COME FIRST.

REMEMBER HOW BUSH'S FIRST PICK FOR SECRETARY OF LABOR COULDN'T TAKE THE JOB BECAUSE SHE HAD AN ILLEGAL HOUSEKEEPER? ARE WE TO THINK THAT SHE ADVERTISED THE JOB FIRST ELSEWHERE, EVEN TO NON-HISPANICS?

WE NEED LEGISLATION THAT SAYS THAT EMPLOYERS MUST POST POSITIONS AND LET CITIZENS KNOW ABOUT THEIR AVAILABILITY, A GOOD LENGTH OF TIME BEFORE FILING FOR A WAIVER TO HIRE AN ILLEGAL.

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Illegal immigrates are this year's queers
Posted by: sausage on Apr 10, 2006 8:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a wedge issue par excellence. It plays right into the Republcian base's inherent misanthropy.

Despite all of Sensenbrenner's huffing and puffing about 700 mile wall, arresting Catholic Workers giving water to Mexicans and Central Americans crossing the desert, the GOP ain't gonna do a thing! Why should they, their big business contributors, Tyson Food and Wal-Mart among others, hire too many undocumented workers to stop now.

The Republicans have found a wedge they can drive into the ground all summer and hope that enough folks, who are otherwise fed-up with Bush and all the administration's shenanigans, will vote'em back into office in November.

Then the GOP won't do a f*ckin' thing about immigration "reform."

Why do you think Frist killed the McCain/Kennedy compromise and House Republicans are still stomping around like a bunch of little Brown Shirts.

Wedge issue politics. That's all it is folks.
(Now, go ahead and flame me, I've got more pressing things to do.)

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» I concur Posted by: stormchilde1975
» Good point Posted by: sausage
The People Will Rise In Their Own Time
Posted by: malcolmartin on Apr 10, 2006 9:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The immigrants rights rallies across the country, the unrest in France, Chavez, Evo, Lula, Obrador, Humala, and the armed resistance to U.S. imperialism in Iraq and Afghanistan are all the early rumblings of the people rising. And not a moment too soon for unchecked by a revolutionary struggle based on the idea of sharing the world’s resources, capitalism will by its very nature turn the world into a giant slave labor camp.

Our economic system’s appetite for profit simply cannot be satisfied! Take for example the U.S. oil industry and its world record profit taking in 2004. Last year as they raised domestic gasoline prices up to and beyond $3.00/gallon that record was shattered. U.S. oil companies listed on Standard & Poor’s index reported an astounding $95.6 billion in profits for 2005! Trouble is unless ExxonMobile, Chevron, ConocoPhillips and the rest make even greater profit into the indefinite future they will whither and die as General Motors and Ford are now doing in the face of competition with Toyota. That is why even this obscenely profitable industry had to be sheltered from the windfall profits tax and must have the billions in royalty relief they will soon get from their servants in the U.S. government.

In the years ahead capitalism will take increasing advantage of war, disaster, disease, terror, and slavery to feed itself. It will seek to establish fascist regimes in the United States and other countries where bourgeois democracies have begun to hinder profits. Millions will die when the United States, China, and the European Union fight the wars for control of world markets and access to resources.

Really only one question remains. Will humanity and the planet Earth survive the end of capitalism? To a great degree, our self-preservation depends on the building of an effective class-conscious resistance here at home, in the belly of the beast. What is to be done?

First, no more delusions about the existence of democracy in the U.S.. There will be no more real elections in this country. The mass media and the electoral machinery and both major political parties are now fully under the control of capital. Observe the impotent and clownish Democratic Party and one conclusion is unavoidable: elections that matter are a quaint feature of America’s past. A coup brought George Bush to power in 2000 and he was reinstalled in 2004 and as long as he remains a useful idiot of the ruling clique his public approval rating could drop to zero and he will still reside in the White House. At the same time Bush is expendable in the blink of an eye if he becomes a drag on profits. He would be replaced with another everyman, a new actor and a person better able to read the script and parrot the talking points. Political dog-and-pony show aside, capitalism’s minions will only release their grip on us if and when the system is confronted by a united and organized working class in open rebellion.

To that end, we must enlist people and accept the leadership of people in this resistance without regard to race or nationality. Unbeknownst to most oppressed white workers in this country, unity with his/her African-American, Hispanic, immigrant and foreign counterparts is the only hope of human salvation. Racism and xenophobia and every other tactic of division have been the lifeblood of capitalism with good reason. Our unity is capitalism’s AIDS—the only potentially deadly threat to this system. White supremacy, Black Nationalism, religious fundamentalism, sexism, homophobia, and all the crackpot schemes and nihilistic cults of the bourgeoisie, like al-Qaeda, are dead ends for all of us.

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Assimilation...???
Posted by: Gma1 on Apr 10, 2006 9:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/exampanel071304.html

Read this then ask yourself why, this morning on CNN, I heard one of the marchers for illegal immigrants speaking in Mexican. He said (translated by sub-titles) that he had been here for fifteen (15) years! He could not speak one sentence in English. This guy doesn't want to be an American! How many more years before he learns a few simple English sentences, let alone anything about our history or constitution. If he is awarded citizenship how could he swear to uphold our laws and constitution? Oh, he was not the only one who spoke insubtitles!

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» RE: Assimilation...??? Posted by: sausage
» RE: Assimilation...??? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Assimilation...??? Posted by: merly
» RE: Assimilation...??? Posted by: vivachavez
» RE: Assimilation...??? Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Assimilation...??? Posted by: symcokid
Call me what you want......
Posted by: dikaiosyne on Apr 10, 2006 10:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm really sick and tired of left wing scumbags lumping extremist groups like the KKK and margional white supremacy groups with the GOP. I'm a registered Libertarian and I can tell you that nobody except the hate America first crowd, welfare peddling Democrats and Big Business want unrestricted illegal immigration. Poll after poll shows that the vast majority want the borders controlled and the illegals out of here. Stop with the CRAP! These illegals need to be going home. The best way to do it is to deny them any benefits which are given to citizens and legal immigrants. This means no health care, no education for their children and no welfare. PERIOD! Give them 90 days to pack up and leave or face starvation on our streets. At this point I really don't care what they do as long as they do it somewhere other than here.

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» RE: Call me what you want...... Posted by: vivachavez
» Yeah! Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Yeah! Posted by: FedUp
» RE: Yeah! Posted by: dlf
» RE: Call me what you want...... Posted by: russellcole38
» Legal vs. Illegal Posted by: YogiBear
LaRaza & it's whores
Posted by: freeda on Apr 10, 2006 10:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well I find Tucker's article to be just another carefully crafted piece of slant journalism--

To say that LaRaza is a reluctant partner with corporate interests IS A HUGE LIE!! LaRaza is not a 'civil rights' group in any sense of the word, it's a well-organized and well-funded lobby that is promoting the interests of one racial group over all others and is heavily finded and involved with the interests of corporate America.

This is from LaRaza's website

Institutional Corporate Partners
The National Council of La Raza (NCLR) recognizes those corporations that have invested in NCLR’s long-term strategic efforts with multiyear, multimillion-dollar commitments, including NCLR’s Empowering An American Community Campaign.

The Allstate Corporation
Bank of America
The Coca-Cola Company
Citigroup
Fannie Mae
Freddie Mac
Ford Motor Company
General Motors Corporation
MBNA Corporation
PepsiCo Foundation
The PMI Group, Inc.
State Farm Insurance Companies
UPS
Univision
Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.

The National Council of La Raza invites corporations large and small and Hispanic entrepreneurs to join in its mission to empower current and future generations of Hispanic Americans. To review the benefits offered to Corporate America for supporting NCLR’s critical work, please click here.

We encourage individual Hispanic entrepreneurs to become an NCLR partner as well. Partners like you have firsthand knowledge of the hard work and dedication it takes to achieve the American Dream. We would deeply appreciate your involvement in our institution and welcome your membership participation.

Amerada Hess Corporation
American Airlines
Anheuser-Busch Companies
AstraZeneca International
AT&T
Azteca Foods, Inc.
Bridgestone/Firestone Trust Fund
Caterpillar Foundation
Chevron Corporation
ConAgra Foods, Inc.
Coors Brewing Company
The Cummins Foundation
DaimlerChrysler Corporation Fund
Eastman Kodak Company
ExxonMobil Corporation
Greenberg Traurig, LLP
Guaranty Bank
Hallmark Cards, Inc.
Johnson & Johnson
The Kroger Co.
McDonald’s Corporation
MetLife Foundation
Mortgage Insurance Company
Sallie Mae
Schneider National, Inc.
Sears, Roebuck and Co.
Sodexho
Starbucks Corporation
Time Warner
Washington Mutual, Inc.
Wilmer Cutler Pickering, LLP
Xerox Corporation


NCLR depends on our corporate partners for a variety of programmatic support in areas such as Education, Community Development, Health, Youth Leadership Development, Civil Rights and Advocacy, Workforce Development, and Affiliate Member Services.

Amerada Hess Corporation
American Airlines
Anheuser-Busch Companies
AstraZeneca International
AT&T
Azteca Foods, Inc.
Bridgestone/Firestone Trust Fund
Caterpillar Foundation
Chevron Corporation
ConAgra Foods, Inc.
Coors Brewing Company
The Cummins Foundation
DaimlerChrysler Corporation Fund
Eastman Kodak Company
ExxonMobil Corporation
Greenberg Traurig, LLP
Guaranty Bank
Hallmark Cards, Inc.
Johnson & Johnson
The Kroger Co.
McDonald’s Corporation
MetLife Foundation
Mortgage Insurance Company
Sallie Mae
Schneider National, Inc.
Sears, Roebuck and Co.
Sodexho
Starbucks Corporation
Time Warner
Washington Mutual, Inc.
Wilmer Cutler Pickering, LLP
Xerox Corporation

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» Great Stuff, Freeda! Posted by: fairleft
LaRaza & it's whores Take II
Posted by: freeda on Apr 10, 2006 10:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Finally there is this:
Corporate Relationship Opportunities > Empowering an American Community Campaign

Launched in November 2002, NCLR’s Empowering an American Community Campaign is an historic fundraising initiative which was established to build an institutional endowment and raise funds to secure a permanent home for the organization in Washington, DC.

After 30 years of steadfast and successful work, it was time for NCLR to think strategically about its future. By establishing an institutional endowment, NCLR will soon have access to strategic funds on an annual basis which can be mobilized to expand its programs and have greater reach in the Hispanic community. The principal of the endowment will remain intact while NCLR will have access to the interest raised.

To date, pledges to the endowment from premier corporations, leading philanthropists, and NCLR’s Board of Directors total $25 million. This is a tremendous indication from our strategic corporate partners and others of their belief in NCLR’s mission and its past accomplishments and future long-term success.

It is anticipated that the endowment will produce approximately $800,000 in needed funds annually. NCLR is eager to encourage continued giving to its endowment by Corporate America and individual friends and colleagues, given that NCLR’s current budget is close to $30 million and must plan for inflation and expanding its services to the community.

In addition to the endowment, NCLR, through its Empowering an American Community Campaign, has raised critical dollars to support its recent acquisition of a building in the heart of the nation’s capital, just four blocks from the White House. The building is an historic symbol of the legacy and permanence of NCLR and its mission to empower all Hispanic Americans to achieve the American Dream.

Please visit our Honor Roll of Donors for a list of corporations and individuals who have made this historic fundraising effort a success to date. Today, we encourage you to play an active roll in ensuring that NCLR can continue its work long into the future by pledging a gift to the Campaign. For gifts of $10,000 or more, NCLR offers a number of commemorative opportunities in its new headquarters – the Raul Yzaguirre Building. Additional recognition opportunities are also available for gifts under $10,000.

For more information on how you can be a part of NCLR’s legacy, please contact Mareth Flores, Campaign and Donor Relations Manager, at (202) 776-1560 or send an email to empower@nclr.org.

Empowering an American Community Campaign Honor Roll of Donors. Yes, check this list out too.

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» RE: LaRaza & it's whores Take II Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: LaRaza & it's whores Take II Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Follow the Money, Josh! Posted by: fairleft
» "Meaningless Distraction"? Posted by: VisionQuest
I've never read such ignorant crap
Posted by: geming on Apr 10, 2006 10:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A third of this country belonged to Mexico before whites came and stole it.

Immigration is a wedge issue--get over it. Although of course, some of you ass holes might just want us people of color to fight over dishwashing and nanny jobs.

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» Kennewick Man Posted by: freeda
Neoliberalism & Alternet vs US Working Class
Posted by: fairleft on Apr 10, 2006 11:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The point is to boost the 60 to 75% of US citizens who are working class and working poor, people who often don't have health care, who often make barely more than minimum wage, who often don't have child care for their kids, the people who often must work two jobs to make ends meet. This is our real world here. And with the unemployment and low-wages situation of Americans without college educations, most of the 12 million illegals really need to go home. You can't raise wages or form unions with a flooded labor market and more encouraged to come by a massive amnesty.

And the way to do this is to raise and enforce employer sanctions, which can effectively stop companies continuing to employ illegal immigrant workers.

The general solution for Mexico and other third world countries, just like for the US, is to return to the economic policies that were working in the 1960s and 1970s. In other words, the exact opposite of open borders and open movement of capital. Mexico must have a protected economy again, and so must the US.

So the immigration issue is a big part of fighting neoliberalism, and fighting for economic policies that will create countries where almost everyone can enjoy a middle-class lifestyle. Our wealth -- and Mexico's too for that matter -- make that a real possibility. But neoliberalism, free capital and open borders -- the game by which corporations and their shareholders capture most of the wealth -- stand in our way. I want to stop the open borders part of the game they're playing, and I'm saddened but not surprised that Alternet does not.

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Uncle Tupelo's 5-Point Plan
Posted by: Uncle Tupelo on Apr 10, 2006 12:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's my 5-point plan for solving the immigration problem:

1. Raise the federal minimum wage, and apply it to all workers everywhere. Farm workers, factory workers, day laborers, restaurant workers, everybody.
2. Get out of NAFTA, the IMF, the World Bank, and the rest of the free trade apparatus. Create financial and criminal penalties for corporations that increase desperation in Latin America.
3. Grant blanket amnesty for everyone here and hustle them along the path to citizenship.
4. Adjust the immigration quotas to better reflect labor needs. The numbers now are kept deliberately low to make some immigrants illegal and thus easier to exploit.
5. Create an official labor pool which employers can hire from. Ensure that everyone in that pool is actually eligible to work. Fine and jail corporate types who knowingly hire illegal immigrants.

And again, to all the nativist cranks who seem to have taken up permanent residence at Alternet: if all you're doing is kicking down at those even less fortunate than you, and not saying a damned thing about boosting the minimum wage and working conditions for everybody, then you're just a tool. A stupid, bigoted tool. Go back to Stormfront or wherever the hell you came from.

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» You left something out... Posted by: Kelly
» RE: You left something out... Posted by: Uncle Tupelo
» RE: Uncle Tupelo's 5-Point Plan Posted by: Uncle Tupelo
Take away 'red' and 'blue' and journalists don't know what to make of it.
Posted by: Sojourner on Apr 10, 2006 2:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When you cannot see the forest for the trees, it's time to return home.

The immigration bill will likely die because we all know that latinos, who may like to march, don't vote. Main streets full of illegals are like the children's crusades of the middle ages. They were there just to die.

The only way there are sides in this debate is if you have the power of a vote, either as a legislator or as a citizen.

Get the marchers to apply for and receive citizenship and then we can talk about sides and about power and about consequences.

Gosh, I wonder why the Repubs don't want to grandfather in all the illegals? Maybe because a majority of those who have become citizens vote Demo? Who woulda ever guessed.

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On polls and pollsters
Posted by: YogiBear on Apr 10, 2006 3:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anti-immigrant groups

Are they really "anti-immigrant"? Or could it possibly be that some of them are anti-illegal immigrant"?

Workers worry about the real threat of weakened labor rights and blame immigrants for low wages.

Blame illegal immigrants for lowering wages.

Immigrants are a convenient scapegoat in this country...For those who view illegal immigrants as scabs and parasites, the problem has been one of enforcement -- how to jail, deport and keep out immigrants in order to ensure the welfare of "real" Americans.

Can I get an official "Jesus Christ!" for the freaking bias in this analysis?

A recent poll conducted for New American Media showed that 67 percent of legal immigrants thought anti-immigrant sentiment was growing.

The pollsters seemed to have an agenda. Likewise, did anyone else notice that the Pew research polls was conducted by the Pew Hispanic branch? Perhaps they were wholly unbaised; the Pew polls tend to be, but that makes me a wee bit suspicious of motives.

Many past polls do find that legal immigrants are also concerned about illegal immigration. Here's one from 2004, which shows that 48% of legal immigrants were concerned about illegal immigration, and that 26% of them felt the government wasn't tough enough on illegals, and that 34% feel like the government should spend more to prevent illegal immigration. Are they all racist?:

http://www.npr.org/news/specials/polls/2004/
immigration/summarycharts.pdf

Interestingly enough, I've been surfing the web for polls, and I can find hardly any that differentiate between legal and illegal immigration. Is that because most Americans don't differentiate? I know I do. Or is it because there is some agenda to lump people against illegal immigration in with the xenophobes?

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» RE: On polls and pollsters Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: On polls and pollsters Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: On polls and pollsters Posted by: Joshua Holland
» not much hope... Posted by: Baal_Labs
» And the other 60%? Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: And the other 60%? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: And the other 60%? Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: On polls and pollsters Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: On polls and pollsters Posted by: YogiBear
Iraq War Draft
Posted by: BsAs light on Apr 10, 2006 4:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As America is getting its ass whipped in Iraq, and soon to be getting its assed whipped in Iran, we will likely be re-instating the draft so let's try and look on the bright side of this immigration debacle. Millions of new immigrants means lots and lots of cannon fodder. I just want to make sure all you Mexian, Honduran, Puerto Rican and Brazilian men are signing up for "selective service" at your local post office. Let's show them what America is really all about right from the get-go. Let's see how many of them are ready to go and fight for this country as they (latinos) have been sending approximately 30 billion back home per year, clearly benefitting from American jobs but never having to fear making the ultimate sacrifice. I think they should get a taste of what it is to fight for a hypocritical, tyrannical, warmongering government composed of old men sending young men to die like at least one man from every generation of my family has since this country's inception. I don't imagine too many of them are here for that, just for the money to send to hungry mouths via Western Union.

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» Naaahhh... Posted by: medstudgeek
There's plenty of "illegal" immigration in Montana and North Dakota
Posted by: SDres11 on Apr 10, 2006 5:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but don't expect the GOP to do anything about it as they'd rather finish bleaching the north and destroying what's left of it just like they did of South Dakota where I've been living for the past 15 years and witnessing their massive destruction against us.

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Not quite true
Posted by: jleo on Apr 10, 2006 5:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The articles implication that the Immigrant groups are solidly behind Corporations is not accurate. We had a huge rally in NYC today. All of the major unions SIEU, Teamsters, TWU was out in force, banners and flags. African Ameicans - civil rights workers were there. There were many references made to Rosa Parks,MLK I love this one t-shirt that read" Today we march, tommorow we vote!" Among the American Flags (very few Mexican Flags) I saw some folks with Che Gueverra shirts Not a corporate culture if I may say so.

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» RE: Not quite true Posted by: dlf
Really Smoked out the phony left and rightwing trolls...
Posted by: outsidea on Apr 10, 2006 5:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well now, this little article certainly smoked out the phony leftists (nazis masquerading as leftists ala the German Workers Socialist Party) who make a whacky case for promoting working class solidarity by scapegoating immigrants.
Joseph

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A Nation Of Immigrants Yes, Criminals....Ummm....NO!
Posted by: mincemeat on Apr 10, 2006 8:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am frankly getting sick of the pro-illegal crowd calling us racists. I have nothing against any skin color. I would be just as disgusted if it were pale skinned eskimos invading our country by the millions. A nation of immigrants? Fine, but so is all of central America, including their beloved Mexico.

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Just like playing Whack-A-Mole
Posted by: bcgirl125 on Apr 10, 2006 10:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As soon as angry bloggers respond to Alternet's pro-globalism stance in one article, they post another one! Whoever the webmasters are at Alternet, you've got to give those corporate shills credit for stamina. This must be about the tenth pro-globalism article I've found on this forum in less than a month. I don't notice them winning any converts; if anything, respondents are getting angrier and their rebuttals are getting better. Most of the regular readers are on to the neocon slant of this forum by now.

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» Aaah, cmon, this is fun. Posted by: medstudgeek
Copy voter registration card when writing congressmen
Posted by: plantland on Apr 11, 2006 5:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just as the US founding documents put forth the revolutionary concept that government derived its authority from the consent of the governed, US citizens should have the discernment to decide whether mass immigration is economically or ecologically supportable. Citizens do NOT support the idea of massive immigration- we need to let our representatives know that.

This seems like a no brainer to me.

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Just Business As Usual
Posted by: dlf on Apr 15, 2006 1:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
LA Times Story About Contractors Using Go-Betweens To Hire Illegals

Under current federal law, companies face criminal or civil sanctions only if they knowingly employ undocumented workers.

"An easy defense … would be to say that they used this subcontractor who they assumed was checking the documents," said Jennifer Silliman, assistant special agent in charge with Immigration and Customs Enforcement in San Diego. "It gives a level of deniability."

Government Hires Illegal Immigrants

Updated: 11:38 AM EDT
Does the Government Employ Illegal Workers?


GRONTON, Conn. (April 13) - It's a little after 7 a.m. and work is already in full swing at this Groton, Conn., construction site, the future home of military housing for officers serving at the nearby Trident Submarine Base.

The U.S. military sub-contractor pouring cement at this site — Gargiulo Construction — says its payroll is completely in order. But in reality, some papers are fake. CBS News correspondent Armen Keteyian reports the group is undocumented workers.

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Does This Make Sense To You?
Posted by: dlf on Apr 16, 2006 7:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our government never tells you they already have DFLC in place, because they have no means or will to enforce it:

The Division of Foreign Labor Certification (DFLC) provides national leadership and policy guidance to carry out the responsibilities of the Secretary of Labor under the Immigration and Nationality Act, as amended, concerning foreign workers seeking admission to the United States for employment.

DFLC provides labor certifications to employers seeking to bring foreign workers into the United States. Certification may be obtained in cases where it can be demonstrated that there are insufficient qualified U.S. workers available and willing to perform the work at wages that meet or exceed the prevailing wage paid for the occupation in the area of intended employment.
http://workforcesecurity.doleta.gov/foreign/

If you read the above post you have to start putting 2+2 together. If the Fed already has the program in force and they hire contractors who are hiring illegals, why aren't we hearing about sanctions being brought against these contractors? And where are these jobs being advertised? How are they recruiting for these jobs? Where is the proof that Americans are turning these jobs down? Lots of questions never any answers, but plenty of name-calling.

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