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Ain't Just Whistling Dixie

By Stan Cox, AlterNet. Posted April 10, 2006.


What if the South had won the Civil War? Kevin Wilmott's sly mockumentary imagines an America that is very different from today's -- or is it?
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One hundred forty-one years ago today, General Robert E. Lee issued "General Orders No. 9," instructing all Confederate troops to "return to their homes." On the previous day, April 9, 1865, he had surrendered to Ulysses S. Grant, ending the Civil War.

But what if the roles had been reversed? What if it had been Lee accepting Grant's surrender? Certainly, we'd be living in a very different America today -- or would we?

Those are the questions addressed by "CSA: The Confederate States of America," currently showing in theaters around the country. The film presents an alternative history in which the nation that emerges from the Civil War becomes, by the 21st century, an exclusively Christian imperialist power, run by and for prosperous white men and regarded by most of the world as a bizarre aberration. In other words, "CSA" is a work of fiction that's uncomfortably real.

The premise of "CSA" is that the Confederacy, with help from European powers, wins the American Civil War, annexes the Union states and enforces slavery as the law of the land. The film's writer-director, Kevin Willmott, an assistant professor of theater and film at the University of Kansas, tells the story of the postwar Confederacy through a faux "British Broadcasting System" documentary, complete with vintage still photos and film footage, talking-head historians and banjo music.

Broadcast on a present-day "Confederate Television Channel 6," the program is accompanied by racist commercials that you just might see if you lived in a full-blown consumer society in which, as one politician puts it, "a new generation of young Americans is excited about owning Negroes."

"CSA's" appalling words and images are delivered in what's probably the only packaging most movie audiences would tolerate: layer upon layer of outrageous humor. The few times I've viewed the film, most people in audience did manage to laugh out loud, even as they squirmed.

Gloom and passion

Like "CSA" itself, Willmott somehow combines a gloomy view of history and a passion for justice with affability and infectious humor. Last week, in Salina, Kan., I spoke with him about "CSA" and the mirror it seems to be holding up to the USA.

Willmott says he wants to help put to rest what he calls the Big Lie: that the Civil War was simply a war over regional differences, between an old agricultural economy and a new industrializing one. Not so, he says -- the war was fought "because Confederates wanted the right to own African people."

By plunging into that long-standing historical dispute, Willmott knows he's asking for trouble. "People say, 'Well, you know, not very many Southerners even owned slaves. Why would a whole nation fight a war for the benefit of just the wealthy few who did?' But that just makes the Civil War the same as all wars, doesn't it? Most people don't know why we're in Iraq, and it's doing them no good, but there we are."

America and the world have endured some nasty jolts since Willmott first wrote the screenplay for "CSA": Republican efforts to suppress the black vote in 2000 and 2004; a foreign policy that in the eyes of many has become a racist crusade, complete with torture; rising anti-gay and anti-immigrant fervor; the devastation left by Hurricane Katrina. That more recent history, says Willmott, has helped bolster one of the film's main themes: that the old Confederacy is far from dead.

Hard-line immigration policies, he says, are an example of modern slavery: "The economic need for immigrants is clear-cut. Corporations need cheap, cheap, cheap workers in big numbers. On the other hand, the country's saying, "We'll arrest you simply for working for us for nothing, arrest you for being poor."

In "CSA," there are no demands to build a wall along the border with Mexico -- it's a CSA colony. Instead, a wall is built along the entire Canadian border, to keep slaves from escaping to the other side of the "Cotton Curtain." But, says Willmott, in a real United States so heavily dependent on immigrant labor, just as in his fictional modern-day slave state, we live with an "invented reality": "Like magic, your hotel room gets cleaned up every day. You know that whoever did that for you, someone you never saw, may be technically illegal. And we come down hard on those people."

For Willmott, the Katrina disaster revealed to Americans the legacy of slavery, in the starkest terms. Like the plight of immigrants, he says, the lives of people in places like New Orleans's Lower Ninth Ward are invisible most of the time. "Our society tends to change only when we hit the wall and explode. When that happens, we wake up for a while and say, 'Well, I guess that won't work anymore.'"

Parallel realities

Willmott's documentary may be a work of imagination, but it's concocted from all-too-real ingredients. In the movie, post-Civil War relations between white people of the North and South are eventually healed through recognition of their joint "superiority" over their black slaves. In real history, the North's tacit approval of Southern segregation laws in the late 19th and early 20th centuries served the same purpose. Historian C. Vann Woodward described that era in his brilliant 1959 book, "The Strange Career of Jim Crow": "Just as the Negro gained his emancipation and new rights through a falling out between white men, he now stood to lose his rights through the reconciliation of white men."

In the movie, the triumphant Confederate Army conquers most of Latin America (a campaign the real South had planned to carry out in the event of victory), and the resulting dominion over peoples of various colors brings the (white) people of the CSA even closer together. In real history, bloody victories in the Caribbean and the Philippines did the job; in Woodward's words, "As America shouldered the White Man's Burden, she took up at the same time many Southern attitudes on the subject of race."

Of the atomic bombs dropped on Japan, "CSA's" true-grey Confederate historian (played by Rupert Pate) says, "By the grace of God, we obtained a weapon that put the entire foreign world of coloreds in their place." Nor was much fictionalizing needed in describing the war on native Americans and their culture; events are depicted almost exactly as they occurred.

In the CSA of the 1980s, a national Family Values Initiative recommends that owners read to their servants the notorious New Testament directive, "Slaves, obey your masters with fear and trembling," a passage that is still cited with approval in some religious circles in the real USA.

Other scenes bring to mind the current Iraq quagmire. For example, the CSA's early-20th century military campaign in Latin America goes far less well than expected; as a Canadian historian played by Evamarii Johnson puts it, the CSA "underestimated the will of the South American people to remain free." In a "clip" from a Hollywood movie about the war, a young Marine lieutenant mourns the loss of his comrades and questions the wisdom of trying to conquer "a whole world of red, brown, black and yellow people." He tells a battled-hardened sergeant, "They'll always outnumber us!" The sergeant growls back, "This world was made for the God-fearin' It's ours, it was always ours -- we just ain't claimed it all yet!"

The two talking-head historians ensure that "CSA" is, so to speak, fair and balanced. While Pate describes as "terrorism pure and simple" a rash of bombings in the 1960s by a Canada-based slave-liberation group, the "John Brown Underground," Johnson points out that "terrorism to one is patriotism to another."

The commercial breaks that punctuate the documentary have at least one foot planted solidly in reality. An "Ask your veterinarian" ad for a prescription drug called "Contrari" features smiling, placid slaves for whom the "little blue pill" gives "all day control." Shirtless black men are apprehended in a promo for a slave-recapture reality show called "Runaway" that looks and sounds exactly like Fox's COPS. An electronic monitoring device called the "Shackle" sounds the alarm "when your property strays from your designated area."

Shock and awe

Willmott obtained $10,000 in seed money from the Public Broadcasting System to start making "CSA," with the prospect of more funding once he had a draft version of the film. But, he says, when PBS representatives saw the draft, they said, "You've gotta be kidding!" After "CSA" awed an audience at the 2004 Sundance Film Festival, PBS notified Willmott that, because of the funding the network had provided, it had first rights to the film. So, he says, "We showed them the finished version. They said, 'You've gotta be kidding!'" PBS dropped any claim to "CSA."

The History Channel showed some interest, but Willmott says it too, "chickened out." "They preferred that slavery stay in the deep past." But "CSA" found a distributor (IFC Films), got a high-profile endorsement ("Presented by Spike Lee") and finally went up on the big screen.

Despite, or maybe because of, the film's unpalatable message, reviews of "CSA" have been overwhelmingly positive. One harshly critical exception appeared last month, predictably, on the website of the hard-right American Spectator. Shawn Macomber expressed shock that any director would, as Willmott has done, portray an America that oversees an empire of "puppet democracies," launches an unprovoked, preemptive attack on another nation (Japan, in the film), tolerates Hitler's racial theories and outlaws all non-Christian religions. Macomber seems to regard such policies as inconceivable in the good old USA.

Willmott says negative reactions to "CSA" generally fall into two categories. "Conservatives tend to say, 'This is not our America.'" (That was also President Bush's reaction to the very real torture photos from Abu Ghraib prison.) On the other hand, "The typical liberal response is, 'It makes me feel bad, and I don't like that."

Black pain

The idea that the nation owes reparations to black Americans for having enslaved their forebears has surfaced from time to time but has never made much political headway. Willmott neatly flips the question in the film, having present-day CSA politician John Ambrose Fauntroy V (played by Larry Peterson) demand monetary reparations from Canada in return for "lost labor" -- slaves who'd escaped across the CSA's northern border 100 years previously. Reparations like that would be fully respectable in the current world economic order. "Governments ask for reparations all the time," says Willmott. "But if you can't understand black pain, you can't understand reparations for slavery."

In "CSA," there is a brief moment in the 1960s when abolition of slavery seems within reach, but it's never achieved. In real life, the '60s also brought hope of racial equality, but the succeeding four decades have seen the Republican Party pit working-class white voters against minorities, partly reversing earlier gains. In his 2001 book "Democracy Heading South: National Politics in the Shadow of Dixie," Augustus B. Cochran provided this deadpan explanation of the GOP's success in courting the majority race: "The advent of black participation in the Democratic Party has also been a significant factor in the appeal of the Republican Party for many white voters."

The United States electoral college map of 2004 matches up almost perfectly with the map of mid-19th-century slavery. All former slaveholding states have become Republican "red states" and 17 of the 20 free states (as of 1860) are now "blue." (The map's colors have reversed almost perfectly since 1900, when Democratic-led, pro-segregation state governments were on the rise.)

Meanwhile, from the 19th to the 21st century, the nation's political center of gravity has shifted steadily southward. Cochran cited three "legs" of Old South-style government that have become strong national trends in recent decades. One leg is the increasing irrelevance of political parties, however hot the apparent conflict between them. A second is the narrow electoral base; if people who don't vote (by law in the Old South, by choice today) were counted at the polls, they would be the majority party. And, writes Cochran, "The third leg of the Solid South was a racist political system designed to maintain white supremacy," while today, "Conservatives, by raising the specter of race, divide the potential majority of citizens along racial lines, making a class coalition, and indeed majority rule, untenable."

What's the matter with the USA?

That divide-and-conquer strategy, of course, has led many millions of nonrich white people to vote in seemingly illogical patterns, against their own economic interests -- a paradox tackled in the 2004 bestseller by Willmott's fellow Kansan Thomas Frank: "What's the Matter with Kansas?"

To Willmott, that paradox "is really the point of the film. People always want to look for logical reasons, but majority support for all kinds of things is not founded on logic. The era of Jim Crow segregation was terrible for poor white folks, but they supported it because they could feel they were better than the black folks down the road."

In putting up with a dysfunctional system, the citizens of Willmott's "CSA" are not very different from the real majority in today's America. As Rupert Pate's character explains, slavery was "not an economic necessity"; instead, "our fond attachment to slavery is what defines us as a people, as a nation."

Conventional wisdom says it's the preoccupation with "moral values" that has led many millions of Americans to vote in recent elections against their own economic interests and for the interests of a wealthy few. If that's the case, I asked Willmott, why have most black Americans not bought the scam, voting instead in the interests of the country's working-class majority? After all, polls show that blacks are as deeply concerned about non-economic issues as other Americans, maybe more so.

"Our experience has taught us not to be fooled by what everyone says is good for you," he said. "When you're not included, you have the advantage of being able to stand back and look at things more objectively, from the outside."

The rebels of the South, like the right-wing politicians of today, claimed to be fulfilling the wishes of the Founding Fathers. The "Great Seal of the Confederacy" had at its center none other than George Washington. In Kevin Willmott's film, Washington is hailed as the "Father of the Confederacy," a status the slaveholding Virginian would surely hold in any present-day CSA.

Willmott puts it this way: "America started out as the CSA. Lincoln tried to make it the USA. But we didn't really get the USA for another century, until the Civil Rights movement." Now and for the past quarter-century, he says, America has been trying to decide: "Do we want the CSA or the USA? Americans are divided. A lot of people still don't really want to embrace freedom."

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Stan Cox is a plant breeder and writer in Salina, Kan.

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"The Man in the High Castle"
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 10, 2006 2:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the Philip K. Dick novel by the above title, Japan and Germany win World War II after being the first to develop the atomic bomb. They invade the US and divide it down the middle (the Rockies being the boundary). What is interesting in this book, and perhaps relevant, is that the Southern States throw in their lot with the Nazis almost immediately.

Isn't it interesting how these neocons just love the old mansions of the South? I bet Rumsfeld imagines himself as an old-time plantation master, whip in hand, overseeing the slaves. Ah yes - the 'good old days', when Condi Rice and Rumsfeld would have had an entirely different sort of relationship. I'm kind of hoping that she takes the whip to him instead, just for the visual effect: imagine an angry Condi stomping on a bleating Rumsfeld!

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» RE: "The Man in the High Castle" Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: "The Man in the High Castle" Posted by: cyberfactotum
The South has already risen
Posted by: oldsmobile on Apr 10, 2006 2:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, atleast all those "the South shall rise again" t-shirts and belt buckles are completely redundant today, as the South has obviously risen again, economically and politically, and has pretty much taken over the country.

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» RE: The South has already risen Posted by: theywillknowusbyourabsurdity
I'd like to see this movie.
Posted by: WhatNow? on Apr 10, 2006 3:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I debated this suject not to long ago on another site. The topic was "what does the rebel flag mean to you?" I had never really thought about it until then and by the time I had finished my replies. I had decided with our current situation that in the end the south had really won and that flag was nothing more than a symbol of intolerance.

I live in the south and will never buy into the superiority that some whites feel even if they could be a smart as the black folks and quit voting against the interests of themselves, their friends, families, and all of us as a whole.

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Give them their reparations
Posted by: thinkverybig on Apr 10, 2006 3:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Black pain"

"The idea that the nation owes reparations to black Americans for having enslaved their forebears has surfaced from time to time but has never made much political headway. Willmott neatly flips the question in the film, having present-day CSA politician John Ambrose Fauntroy V (played by Larry Peterson) demand monetary reparations from Canada in return for "lost labor" -- slaves who'd escaped across the CSA's northern border 100 years previously. Reparations like that would be fully respectable in the current world economic order. "Governments ask for reparations all the time," says Willmott. "But if you can't understand black pain, you can't understand reparations for slavery."


The Jews, Japanese and Indians received reparations, why not give them to the blacks. This country will not prosper until it rights ALL of its WRONGS and apologize as well as give blacks reparations. It will only be a start to correcting our past.

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What was slavery in the old South?
Posted by: douglashoyt on Apr 10, 2006 4:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think most of the values and attitudes of anti-bellum America have been explored well. It is not true that the old CSA was a racist society as we view it today.

Slavery was primarily an economic system and the values/social attitudes only reflected that reality.

How then can one explain that one of the largest slave owners in the anti-bellum south was he a free black? How does one explain free blacks at all in the old south? How does one explain that free blacks, too, fought to preserve the old south and slavery?

After the civil war, many newly freed black slaves returned to work for their former master, but for wages.

We too often look at history through our current eyes and not the eyes of the people or place at its own time.

A Mr. Stamp wrote, “Slavery: the peculiar institution.” This gives a clear picture of many aspects of the anti-bellem southern society.

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» the peculiar institution Posted by: alternet reader Dan
the flag and school segregation
Posted by: tscox on Apr 10, 2006 4:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was born in Georgia in 1955, the year after the Supreme Court's Brown vs. Topkea Board of Education decision declared an end to school segregation and the year before the Georgia legislature added the Confederate battle flag to the state flag. Georgia followed the Court's ruling that desegregation proceed "with all deliberate speed", but in practice, the emphasis seems to have been on "deliberate". I was in junior high before I ever attended school with black kids, more than a century after the end of the Civil War and more than a decade after the Brown decision.

Even then, we were assigned to largely separate classrooms based on some estimate of supposed "intelligence". Then and now, there continue to be mechanisms, including privatization, for keeping schools largely segregated, and the effects of unequal education cascade through a person's entire life.

Stan Cox

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Take a look at prison populations and prison labor.
Posted by: wli on Apr 10, 2006 5:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Slavery for blacks is not over by a longshot. It's just cloaked under the guise of the "war on drugs" and "tough on crime" measures.

This "CSA" movie isn't historical fiction. It's thinly-veiled historical fact.

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Not quite...
Posted by: tiffanya84 on Apr 10, 2006 5:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree, more or less, with most of what was said; however, portraying Abraham Lincoln as some kind of a saint is far from accurate. It is well documented that he was quoted multiple times in which he stated that he in no way believed white and black MEN were equal. Obviously, he was a better than other choices of the day, but then again, that's the mentality a lot of people had in the last election...

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» RE: Not quite... Posted by: bigfoot
» Nothing like out of context Lincoln Posted by: peritonlogon
Outsourcing is also slavery and racism
Posted by: maxpayne on Apr 10, 2006 5:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And it ain't limited to the south. Of course, much of the northern US votes along the "conservative" lines these days especially out in the upper midwest which used to be not as "conservative".

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Interesting, but historically
Posted by: ceti on Apr 10, 2006 5:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a big fan of speculative fiction, and this film looks really interesting as an exploration of eery parallels between today's USA and a parallel world 20th century CSA.

The only quibble I have is that the history that is outlined is implausible. The CSA could have won the war, but only to secede, not conquer the North (then again, the fiction part is not the most important aspect of the film).

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secession
Posted by: blueneck on Apr 10, 2006 6:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One interesting fact is that the impetus for succession did not come from the wealthy planters. Many of these had business interests in both the North & South and were not eager for war to disrupt them. When the convention for secession was held in Mississippi both Adams (Natchez) and Warren (Vicksburg) county delegates voted against secession. These two counties had the largest concentration of wealth in MS at the time.
As to the comment about Jews above, these were subject to very little discrination in the antebellum south (less than they suffered in the North) and proved quite loyal during the war. Two states (La & Fla) had Jewish US senators and numerous Jews served in the Confederate army
Blueneck

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» RE: secession Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: secession Posted by: blueneck
» RE: secession Posted by: TagsNOLA
He's Wrong About One Thing
Posted by: outtolunch on Apr 10, 2006 6:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Willmott is wrong when he says that the country wants to arrest illegal immigrants simply for working for us for nothing and for being poor. That's absolutely false. We want to arrest them for being here illegally. There are plenty of immigrants who come to this country through legal channels. What message does it send to them if we let people who snuck into this country illegally also become citizens. The truth is that Americans will do the jobs that illegals do if you pay them enough. The true racists are businesses who exploit illegals, paying them next to nothing, and treating them essentially like slaves.

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» McDonalds and Walmart Posted by: alternet reader Dan
» RE: He's Wrong About One Thing Posted by: outtolunch
» RE: You are so outtolunch! Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: Who is really outtolunch? Posted by: mincemeat
Racism on DVD
Posted by: Artkansas on Apr 10, 2006 7:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In recent months both Wal Mart and Krogers have had $1.00 DVD's for sale. Among the old Popeye's are some old racist animations like Chuck Jones "Inki and the Minah Bird" and Walter Lantz's "Scrub Me Mama with a Boogie Beat".

Blocked by the FCC. It oozes out on DVD.

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Kevin Phillips devotes an entire chapter to "southernization"
Posted by: sausage on Apr 10, 2006 7:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...in American Theocracy : The Peril and Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money in the 21stCentury. The United States in the early twenty-first century many aspects does seem as if the Confederacy did win the Civil War.

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Question everything
Posted by: jackburns on Apr 10, 2006 7:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a southerner. Not a typical southerner, because I'm agnostic, a die hard green and enviro-meddler in the tradition of Edward Abbey and most certainly not a racist. Most folks in the south consider me liberal, even radical. Fine by me. But I don't agree with many aspects of this film.

The south has deep problems and a seriously troubled history (so does the north); however, to say that the Civil War was just about slavery and and to say that the contribution of economic and other cultural issues is a "big lie" is simply not true.

I'd suggest the film maker review Berkelely professor Kenneth M. Stampp's work The Causes of The Civil War. It's filled with original documents and comments from the war that directly contridict the view of the film maker. Also of note is I'll Take My Stand, The South and The Agrarian Tradition, a collection of essays from various professors, most of which (as I recall) were from Vanderbilt. This also serves as a direct contridiction to the statement of the film maker. The bottom line is it was a highly complex conflict, but one we can learn some important lessons from.

The south has more than its share of mean, intolerant rednecks and religious whackos that still believe Jesus is coming back to save 'em. But there's plenty of that in other parts of the country as well. We don't hold a monopoly on ignorance.

Before the war, the south was largely agrarian, which is one of the main reasons we lost the war. Southerners had little chance against the industrial might of the north. One of the positive outcomes was the end of slavery (except for the current form of economic slavery that still exists), but not every aspect was positive.

We're now an industrialized region, filled with all sorts of pollutants, dirty air, sprawl an over populated ecological nightmare.

Who really knows what would have happened. It's pointless to speculate about, and to use broad, sweeping, stereotypical and imaginary scenarios does little to generate meaningful dialog about how we can improve our society for all people. We've got a tyrant in the White House attempting to subjugate the entire world to American capitalism and environmental destruction and here we are arguing about The War Between the States?

And I realize how this film may be trying to tie that theme to the present situation in this country, but frankly, the pathetic situation in the United States is readily apparent without attempting to falsely portray southerners as a bunch of ignorant, black hating Neanderthals.

And another thing. Let's think about the right of people to stand up against what they perceive to be oppressive government. With Herr Bush and his Messianic henchmen in the White House, sitting on the trigger for Iran, when is the time to say "enough is enough."

I'm not proud of every aspect of southern history, but I'm a damn proud southerner and still a rebel. And the enemy is George Bush.

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» RE: Question everything Posted by: jackburns
» RE: Question everything Posted by: jackburns
» RE: Question everything Posted by: jackburns
» RE: Question everything Posted by: jackburns
» RE: Question everything Posted by: blueneck
» RE: Question everything Posted by: Bibs
» RE: Question everything Posted by: Bibs
10%, 5%, 0%
Posted by: O.B.Server on Apr 10, 2006 7:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This CSA sounds like one fantastic movie. Think of the garbage we were exposed to school! One thing is that while the truth is tragic, the manufactured history we were force fed was indeed boring. I wonder what percentage of the those watching this movie now see any connection between it and the reality of their lives. 10%, 5%, 0%?

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What a Repulsive & Ridiculous Piece of Tripe
Posted by: NoPCZone on Apr 10, 2006 8:31 AM   
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Most people who are not of the south seem to be unable to understand it. Others seem unwilling to try.

The south is unique among the regions of our country in that it's settlement was more homogenous than the rest of the country. Combine that with it's century of relative poverty from Reconstruction, Jim Crow, and a continuous loss of people and you end up with an area very different from the rest of the country.

The rest of the nation has historically been just as racist as the south. Race riots are part of the history of many American cities from New York to Philadelphia to Baltimore to Chicago all the way to Seattle and Los Angeles. Redlining, Miscegenation Laws and all of the rest happened from Boston to Providence to Hartford to Pittsburgh to St Louis to Kansas City to Denver to Phoenix to Portland to San Francisco to Honolulu.

Each section of our country has exhibited and is still dealing with racism. In the southwest the Native peoples and the hispanic peoples have long suffered. Seattle once held a race riot where all of the Chinese people were rounded up and put on boats for San Francisco. Chicago had a multi-day race riot that started when a black kid was swimming and ended up on a 'white only' beach. The Federal Government systemically rounded up, locked up and looted Japanese Americans during the heyday of the 'Greatest Generation'. Boston had racial violence in the 1970's far beyond that of Little Rock in the 1950's when desegregation came to their schools.

The south is an enigma of the first order. The same south that produced Jim Crow has produced Politicians, Playwrights, Poets, Novelists, Musicians, and Artisans way out of proportion to it's size and population. People as diverse as Helen Gurley Brown, James Baldwin, William Faulkner, Janis Joplin, Tennessee Williams, Maya Angelou, Truman Capote, Jimmy Rogers, Eudora Welty, John Coltrane, Charlie Rose, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Ramsey Clark, Jim Hightower, John Grisham, J. William Fulbright, Johnny Cash, Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, Martin Luther King and others have come up out of the south to impact our art, music, politics and culture.

America has a race problem and always has. Note that I said AMERICA has, not had. As the south has had a larger percentage of persons of color and for a much longer time, the effect and history is just that much more pronounced.

Some self-righteous outsider who wants to perpetuate and deal in and with stereotypes is not a solution to any problem. They are a symptom of the problem. The only way to deal with a problem is truth. Preserving and perpetuating stereotypical myths is not dealing with truth.

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Didn't Ted Turner already make this film?
Posted by: Voicedude on Apr 10, 2006 11:05 AM   
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Didn't Ted Turner already make this film?

Yes, in a way, he did. Unintentionally.

See (if you can bear it) the movie "God's And Generals", in which all the Northerners are evil, money-grubbing opportunists, all Southerners are noble gentlemen who really want equality, and all of their black slaves would rather stay with their Massah's!

This revisionist history should have been called "Birth Of A Nation II". It's a film too ridiculous (by both historical AND dramatic perspectives) to comment on any further; except to say this:

It was released in 2003, and Turner was obviously so proud of it he even appeared in a small role as a Southern leader. No 'ancient history' here, just a lot of 'we've been really misunderstood' tripe and rewriting of history. It's a racist equal of "Plan Nine From Outer Space" - so unredeamingly bad that it's only good for a laugh.

Except no one did. Not me. Not the older, interracial couple seated in from of me. (Oh, how I would have like to pick THEIR brains for a few hours!) Perhaps Wilmott's film can address the same issues (not so seriously) and get us to laugh at how uncomfortably true it really is.

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The south lost, but so did the slaves.
Posted by: YogiBear on Apr 10, 2006 3:52 PM   
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What if the South had won the Civil War?

Considering what happened during reconstruction, in which the federal government basically abandoned blacks to the doings of their former masters, in a way, the south did win. Or perhaps, more accurate, slaves weren't truly freed.

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Interesting Posts
Posted by: errandchild on Apr 10, 2006 4:27 PM   
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As a white southern male I must say that I do see racism from time to time. Being raised in and living in Mississippi, it is hard to get away from the racist stigma associated with southern people. However, I do get kind of get "uppity" when people condemn the south for it's racial problems then act superior as if all white male southerners are less than human. Frankly, all of you who wish to blame the south for all of your problems can just stop this. This boogeyman mentality is just absurd and childish. The south does have it's problems as everywhere else does. To say that one doesn't have the right to express this truth is to deny the truth and attempt to make yourself seem superior.

Now, to answer the question of why there are separate proms for whites and blacks is a simple answer. The blacks wanted one. Now this is from my own personal experience, so take it as that as I take all of your statements as the same. I think it has already been established that blacks can be just as racist as the whites. That is not helping anyone down here.

I don't think that those who condemn us understand just how badly we were hurt during the reconstruction. Carpet-baggers and other con artist entrepreneurs combined with a bigoted stigma of southerners being ignorant and backwards and not to be treated with any semblance of human dignity just made the problems worse. The fact that some people engage in this behavior today doesn't make things better.

Now I'm not going to say that the south is just fine the way it is. There is still a long way to go before the bigotry down here is destroyed. However, poking at us and condemning us doesn't solve anything. Why don't you do something to help the situation instead of simply ogling at it? I am doing what I can to stop the problems that we have.

I want you all to know that there are liberals down here that that are trying to change things. I'm one of them. There are just different ways needed to perform these changes. We in the south are not like people in the north. It's a totally different culture down here. If you want me to explain it just ask. However, for now remember that simply saying we are all to blame is irresponsible. We are trying to change, but gaining grass roots liberalism is a difficult thing to do here just as it is anywhere where conservative values reign supreme. Give us time, we will get better. Until then, either help or stay out the way. Liberals have a bad reputation down here because of exactly what many of you have been doing, complaining and not helping.

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» Neil Young was Right... Posted by: Kym525
» Now you must Listen Posted by: errandchild
» RE: Now you must Listen Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Now you must Listen Posted by: errandchild
» RE: Now you must Listen Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Neil Young was Right... Posted by: yesman
» RE: Neil Young was Right... Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Interesting Posts Posted by: Kym525
» Dishonesty Posted by: errandchild
» RE: Dishonesty Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Dishonesty Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Dishonesty Posted by: Kym525
» Explanation Posted by: errandchild
» RE: Interesting Posts Posted by: Bibs
» RE: Interesting Posts Posted by: dave,dave
reasons for secession
Posted by: blueneck on Apr 10, 2006 5:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I doubt the South would have seceded without slavery as a reason, South Carolina had flirted with it (and the nullification doctrine) for 30 years before the Civil War. For most of the participants, slavery was an important thing in their lives. Probably some was just the "code duello" mindset prevalent in the South then.
Blueneck

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» RE: reasons for secession Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: reasons for secession Posted by: blueneck
North vs. South - Too near vs. too high
Posted by: SDres11 on Apr 10, 2006 5:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the North, "non-whites" can go as high as they want as long as they don't get near them "whites". In the South, "non-whites" can come as close to them "whites" as long as they don't get high. Such were the old days of slavery/racism.

Just come up North to South Dakota as an example and you'd see why the Native Indians are kept at a distance lest they get harassed if they come any closer vs the South where non-whites are always kept close and harassed at large.

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why does the South feel so sorry for itself?
Posted by: deborama on Apr 10, 2006 6:26 PM   
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You know what's REALLY annoying about Southerners? It's not their racism, which, yes, exists everywhere. It's not their religiosity, which is deeply offensive to me as a rational person, but which I am expected to "respect" even when it disrespects me 24/7. It's not their ridiculous accents (sorry, they just sound very stupid to me). It's the fact that Southerners feel so VERY VERY sorry for themselves. Why the hell is that?

Does anyone spend ANY TIME on ANY BOARD anywhere in cyberspace bemoaning the fact that Northeasterners, or Westerners, or mid-Westerners, don't get a fair shake on the national stage? No, it's always the fucking Southerners. Always always always wanting SPECIAL TREATMENT because they're too damn stupid, poor, racist, sexist, militaristic and absolutely religiously insane to take care of themselves. This whole country since 1861 has been about trying to make the goddamn Southerners happy. I'm totally sick of it.

I wish they HAD won the war and had formed their own stupid country and the hell with them. They are dragging the entire nation backward into the dark ages. The rest of the country has to stop accommodating them, consoling them, commiserating with them, and bending over backwards to make them happy. Why do I have to make racist, sexist religious fanatics happy? They would just as soon annihilate half-blood twice-divorced atheist abortionist me!

I know the foregoing is very politically incorrect but it's how I feel. I never go to the South, I never even buy products that come from the South. I simply do not support the states that are RUINING this country with their backwards ideologies.

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Repulsive
Posted by: chomsky on Apr 10, 2006 7:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know this is supposed to be satire, but as a southerner I found the trailer apsolutely repulsive. No I am not a racist. No I am not proud of what my part of the country did not so long ago, as I am sure New York isn't too proud of the fact that the majority of southern slaves came through that state. However, what little I have seen of this movie offends me as someone who is proud of where I come from.

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YEEHAW! DEMONIZE THEM REDNECKS! (anything to draw attention away from the elite....)
Posted by: cry0fan on Apr 10, 2006 8:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The southern hick redneck type that is so despised and demonized by the fauxleft should be the CORE DEMOGRAPHIC of any TRUE leftist movement.
The largest single bloc in the 2004 election was the white blue collar male. The South IS America. If the left turns its back on the largest part of lower middle class and middle class America, what kind of left is that, anyway?

What we have here is a FAUXleft, a false left created by plutocrat and corpwhorate millions. They used the nonprofit foundations to slowly create a left that instead of targeting the white lower middle class Southerner as its core demographic, DEMONIZED that group instead!

Talk about a wet dream for the elite!

Get off of the back of the South. The south was controlled by the superrich in slavery days.

And anyway, for the first 100 years of the American colonies, there were as many or more white indentured slaves as there were black slaves. Yes, whites were marched in chains to the auction block many a time. And they were whipped as were the black slaves.

And many slaveowners were black and indian. In some counties, blacks or indian slaveowners were 4-10% of all slaveowners.

And the court case the set the legal precedent for chattel slavery in north american colonies was a former black slave named Anthoney who sued to prevent his indentured black slave from gaining his freedom.

Slavery was never the redneck or the whites. Slavery was and always be perpetrated on the lower class by the upper class. It aint about color.

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Divide and Conquer
Posted by: beausoleil on Apr 11, 2006 7:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If this is 'Alternet' then what is alternative about this largely hateful, stereotypical and ingnorant movie and the resulting commentaries posted here? Don't you people realize that this Northernn/Southern animosity is being fed by the very corporate/governmental forces that seek to divide and conquer all of us working taxpaying citizens? As long as we keep quibbling about such non-issues as slavery, gay marriage, etc., we continue to ignore the fact that the very forces of greed and propaganda that instigated the civil war are now quickly making slaves of all of us!

What these forces want is to make sure that the entire nation, black, white, Indian, Mexican, Northern, Southern, etc. never UNITE against the true enemy which is picking our pockets and destroying our nation. Before making any more comments about the Civil War, please look up the original documents of Jefferson Davis and the Confederacy.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/csa/csapage.htm

If you did, you would find a list of greivances, only one of which is the wish to maintain slavery. What our true enemies don't want us to know, and Alternet may be aligned with them, is that the war was mostly about the concentration of power in one place (the better to control us), and about the right of each state or region to withdraw from what started out as a Free Union, this concept is known as 'States Rights', something that the Powers- That-Be' want us to remain ignorant of.

By continuing to distract us with an anachronistic argument over slavery, which breeds hatred and misunderstanding, our real enemies, otherwise known as Bushco, are better able to divide us, and therefore continue to conquer us. We must finally understand that the South was simply the first 'Iraq', that the war was actually about getting hold of our rich economy and natural resources, and that the slavery issue was already well on it's way to being solved by at least one of the most prominent and influential plantation owners at the time, Yale educated Charles Grevemburg of Jeanerette, La., who found it workable to give each 'slave family' its freedom, 40 acres, a mule and a plow and having the family work the larger plantation part-time. All of this is historical fact, unlike this ridiculous 'what if' movie that is designed only to stir up hatred and division.

Stop letting yourselves be manipulated by this propaganda and get yourself some factual information, from original documents about Lincoln, the Confederacy and the all of the intrigues and machinations behind it.

The only thing that makes the Civil War an issue right now is it's similarity with the present wars of imperial aggression now being waged by Bushco at our expense and in our name. Whenever you hear the same issue being thrown at you over and over again, ask yourself who is behind this issue and why. Who's agenda is this? And why is it okay to make racist comments about white southerners, I thought that Alternet does not allow racist statements? Why the double standard?

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» RE: Divide and Conquer Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Divide and Conquer Posted by: lightning
I Would Have Preferred a Link...
Posted by: shawnmacomber on Apr 11, 2006 8:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As much as I appreciate Stan Cox' summary of my CSA review, I very much would have preferred him to include a link to the piece so it could be read in it's full context. (It ishere, by the by.) Specifically, my position was/is that to deny any progress has been made on issues of race and to conflate modern America with the life under the Confederacy is to dishonor those who suffered real persecution merely to feed an ongoing hero complex that regards any admission of progress as anti-intellectualism. I would imagine looking at the history of the Civil War and the terrible struggle to obtain equal rights in the decades after we should all, as I write in the piece, breathe "a great sigh of relief at the good fortune we all have to live in a country where the Lost Cause was indeed lost." To accuse me of jingoism for suggesting so says more about your agenda than mine. (Also, check out my reporting from Iraq here, here, and here if you think I'm some sort of simplistic cheerleader.)

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Property Rights
Posted by: HumanAction on Apr 11, 2006 12:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is once again failed to be mentioned is property rights. Secession was definitely a right of every State (or groups of them in this case). The individual states never would have agreed to form a union if they didn't have that right.

As for slavery being the reason for the civil war, that is ludicrous. But ignorance, especially ignorance of economics, is what is killing this country.

Slavery has existed throughout the world since the beginning of man. It's a horrible violation of property rights (in this case, the property is the person). It was peacefully stopped in most of the world, except for America, where 600,000 people died. I wonder if the producer of this film knows what a racist Lincoln was, that he had no intention of freeing blacks, instead he wanted to deport them all back to Africa.

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» RE: Property Rights Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Property Rights Posted by: YogiBear
Relax y'all--it's fiction! Bad fiction, at that!
Posted by: borealis on Apr 11, 2006 1:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I enjoyed CSA--I even enjoyed my own occasionally uncomfortable laughter. I like movies that ask me to think and CSA did. I was struck, though, by how ridiculous all of the current events in the movie are given the agrarian economy of the post-war CSA. Cotton is still king and the captured factories of the North are used only as textile mills. The industrial revolution is stalled completely. Yet, in 1969, the CSA landed a man on the moon to plant the stars and bars. Really?! How'd they do that without innovation and invention? Aggression against the brown, black, red, and yellow people of the earth--sure. But, aggression without an economy to sustain the the war machine doesn't do as much damage. CSA shows a thriving upper middle-class able to afford slaves. Wrong! A cotton-based society would have resulted in a few rich families, desperately poor everyone else, and no middle class. With such a ridiculous premise, it was really hard to take the film as seriously as so many commenters have. So, relax and have fun with CSA or relax and make fun of CSA. But, either way, please RELAX!

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Re - the south
Posted by: gjames on Apr 11, 2006 5:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look, my boyfriend is a southern boy from Atlanta. It's no surprise that a bunch of folks hated this movie and they all seem to be from the south - white southerners love the south. They just love it.

And you know what? Call the south a racist hellhole. Insult the trashiness of southern cities and the gaudy southern style in dress and decor. Call southerners ignorant - it really pisses them off. I mean - it's plain stupid for southerners to love the south, so feel free to piss them off.

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» RE: e - the south Posted by: lightning
» RE: e - the south Posted by: gjames
» RE: e - the south Posted by: lightning
lightning
Posted by: lightning on Apr 12, 2006 11:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As an historian of the american Civil War, Wilmott's film creates a strange and disturbing interpretation of history that comes from no more educated place than a high school history class.

While most serious historians agree that slavery was a central aspect of the period, many will also agree that the issue was more of a catalyst than a straw on the camel's back. Slavery was an issue around which a larger question of the interpretation of the tenth amendment coalesced. These questions of what rights of sovereignty the states shall have under the constitution are still with us today, because they were swept under the banner of imancipation in 1863.

As a result, Wilmott's film creates a dengerously misguiding picture of the facts of history. By focusing on the idea of slavery as the only cause of the war between the states, the truth has suffered, and the rest of the film cannot be anything but a disturbing fantasy as a result.

It further polarizes americans who continue to learn the standard textbook narrative of theses events, while totally ignoring the social, technical, and economic realities of the 1860's. Slavery was a doomed institution with the advent of the industrial revolution, and the inevitable creation of a more mechanized agricultural system. It was doomed further with the social climate of the 1860's, where even in the south only 4% of the population owned any slaves. Slavery was becoming more controversial with every day in the US, both in North and South. The economic reality was simply that one could invest in mechanized agriculture with a far greater return on the investment than an equal investment in slaves, an investment that continues to cost money on an annual basis with only the return of a farm yield.

While I can appreciate the Vision of a filmmaker, this film will do nothing to help americans learn the truth of their history and how we got into the difficult place we are today.

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» RE: lightning Posted by: Kym525
» RE: lightning Posted by: lightning
AIN'T JUST WHISTLING DIXIE
Posted by: taranzo37 on Apr 12, 2006 6:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why go back to the Civil War to make this point of the South winning. Why not begin with Nixon's Southern Strategy....Reagan beginning his presidential campaign in Philadelphia, Ms., and reveal the incorporation of most, if not all, of the political planks in the Dixiecrats party into present day Republican campaigns? More subtle and hidden with code words, Red states, and compassionate conservatism, but designed to achieve the same results....the subjugation of people of color. I would really like to see an analysis of this if anyone knows about one existing.

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Nebraska's whistling Dixie now and amazingly both the blacks and whites agreed to it !
Posted by: maxpayne on Apr 15, 2006 8:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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