COMMENTS: 146
Crumbling Under Debt
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Last month, for the third time during the presidency of George W. Bush, the U.S. Congress raised America's debt ceiling. By bumping up our own credit limit, the country's leaders allowed us to technically avoid defaulting on our loans, but the move raises disturbing questions about the resolve of our leaders to ever put the country on a sustainable borrowing path.
Economists and businesspeople have been warning for some time that sooner or later, America's binge of borrowing must come to an end, or we will all suffer drastic consequences. Despite widespread concern about America's increasing debt load, the issue lacks the sort of "sex appeal" that the media needs to go at the issue more aggressively. And without media attention, politicians feel little pressure to deal with the issue in a substantive way.
According to Peter G. Peterson, former secretary of commerce under President Nixon, and today chairman of The Blackstone Group, "There are very serious people that believe our current fiscal irresponsibility is heading this country towards a hard landing." A hard landing is a period that combines rising interest rates with rising inflation rates. That would hit Americans right where it hurts, in the pocketbook, by decreasing their purchasing power at a time when everything costs more.
Today, the average American's share of the national debt is $27,000 and rising. How much longer can this continue? While no one can predict the day of reckoning, this much is for sure: Every day we ignore the problem, we increase the chances that the problem will have severe, if not catastrophic, consequences.
"Sooner or later" is rapidly becoming sooner
In the last few weeks, we began to see signals that the consequences may come sooner than most Americans expect. According to Business Week, both the European Central Bank and the Bank of Japan have raised their interest rates -- which could signal that the days of foreign investors propping up the U. S. economy may soon be on the wane. Bottom line, this potentially will have serious consequences for all Americans, but especially for average Americans living on the edge of poverty.
The first consequence will be a rapid decline in Americans' standard of living. Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke insists the economy is strong, because many of the traditional measures of economic growth remain solid. Inventory levels, corporate profits and unemployment statistics all point towards continued growth. But what about the $3 billion a day that Americans cumulatively spend on interest payments? What about the estimated $834 billion that Americans have borrowed off their mortgages last year alone? Do average Americans have any kind of savings to use as a cushion in the event of a "hard landing?" Can an already-hard-working single mom just go back into the job market to make ends meet when serious inflation kicks in?
Second, should our debt levels continue to increase at unsustainable rates, we will soon reach a point where foreign investors demand an interest rate premium for lending to us. Or worse yet, they may simply decide to put their money in other financial instruments than U. S. Treasury bonds, which will suck the wind out of the U. S. economy very rapidly and likely lead to recession or a depression.
Third, weaknesses in the U. S. economy will cause the value dollar to weaken relative to foreign currencies. When this happens, as it inevitably must, everything Americans buy from abroad will cost more. And considering that America's manufacturing base has all but evaporated, we buy just about everything from abroad. With our dollar worth increasingly less, virtually every industry will start to feel inflationary pressures, leading to layoffs and a further downward cycle for the economy.
Fourth and most fundamentally, our debt crisis has serious implications for America's status as a world leader. When Britain was the world's most powerful country, it was the world's leading moneylender. But when England became a debtor nation, their stature in world affairs rapidly declined. The lessons of history are clear: A nation's borrowing from abroad is generally a precursor to decline. Harvard economics professor, Benjamin Friedman, says in the TIME-BOMB documentary, "Again and again it has always been the world's leading lending country that has been the premier country in terms of political influence, diplomatic influence and cultural influence. Today we are no longer the world's leading lending country. In fact we are now the world's biggest debtor country, and we are continuing to wield influence on the basis of military prowess alone."
How did we get in this mess?
The root causes and consequences of this situation are explored thoroughly in the TIME-BOMB documentary, and they go much deeper than simply movements in interest rates and capital flows.
Most pointedly, there has been a fundamental shift in political attitudes towards debt, leading towards fiscal irresponsibility by our leaders in Washington. Since taking office, the Bush administration has added $2.5 trillion to the national debt, from $5.662 trillion when Bush took office in January 2001 up to $8.170 trillion on New Year's Day 2006. This represents an astounding increase of 44 percent during a period when prior projections suggested a $4 billion surplus. Despite this alarming increase in the debt during Bush's presidency, no one in a position of power has seriously proposed any measures that would address the root causes of the problem.
Simply put, Americans have become mired in a culture of debt. We buy things we don't make and don't need with money borrowed from abroad. America's economy has shifted dramatically in recent decades from an "old" economy based upon manufacturing capability to a "new and improved" economy based upon services. But increasingly, the services that America offers the world are financial in nature, designed to make it easier for Americans to live beyond their needs. Hence we sink even deeper into debt, comforted by the delusion that foreigners will continue to prop up our economy.
The Blanche Dubois syndrome
America now relies upon the kindness of strangers to finance almost 50 percent of the government debt, with the lion's share coming from the Asian central banks. We now borrow over 6 percent of our GDP from abroad. Billionaire investor Warren Buffet puts this in perspective: "If the country does not change course, within 10 years the rest of the world would end up owning $15 trillion worth of the United States, equivalent to owning every share of American stock."
Many experts are worried about our increasing debt load. According to Harvard economics professor (and former chief economist at the IMF), "this is not a normal state of affairs. And it's certainly not something we expect to see from the world's richest country."
America has been able to get away with this so far, largely because of cheap foreign capital, cheap labor in China and India for manufacturing, and relatively cheap energy. But China's economy is now booming, moving labor costs ever skyward. And with energy costs now on the rise, it's only a matter of time until these costs get passed on to American consumers in the form of higher prices for "cheap" imports.
This will send shock waves through the U. S. economy. Real estate markets, already cooling, would enter a downward spiral. Mortgage foreclosures and personal bankruptcies, already approaching record levels, would soar. And this could all put the solvency of major banks in jeopardy, further risking more virulent forms of inflation or, in the worst case, hyperinflation. History buffs will recall that hyperinflation was the situation in post-World War I Germany that created the social conditions exploited by Hitler in his ascent to power.
So what can we do to prevent this from happening or at least reduce the severity of the eventual reckoning?
Because many of these problems are so complex, most Americans have no clue what to do. This unfortunately results in a near total lack of organized pressure on our elected officials to make any structural changes, and nothing gets done. Perhaps the most insidious aspect of all this is that the problems increase only incrementally, until a point at which it is too late to do anything, at which time the economy suddenly goes into a tailspin.
Our challenge is to address the problems before they reach this stage. To do this we must make a commitment to understand what is really happening. Things you can do are elaborated on the website www.time-bomb.org, but for starters here are six concrete things you can do.
First, become knowledgeable about the problems. The website for the documentary film contains links to source material that will enable you to speak intelligently about the problem.
Second, contact Howard Dean at the Democratic National Committee (hdean@dnc.org)) and urge him to make dealing with America's unsustainable borrowing patterns a higher priority of the Democratic Party. Urge him to develop concrete proposals to deal with this issue.
Third, urge activist groups such as MoveOn and TrueMajority.org to elevate this problem in their list of priorities. Only through concerted action can we begin to apply pressure on our elected officials to address the root causes of the problems.
Fourth, write your local newspaper or TV station and ask the editor to cover these issues more aggressively.
Fifth, sign the "Petition for Fiscal Responsibility" on the website, and urge your friends and colleagues to do the same. The signatures will be collected and presented to elected officials in Washington.
Most importantly, at every opportunity we should seek to raise this issue in political forums related to the 2006 midterm elections. Already Bush & Co. have risked serious disaffection on this issue from one of their key constituencies, fiscal conservatives. Only when our elected officials realize that their continued fiscal irresponsibility may cost them their jobs will they begin to take real action to address the problems.
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 8, 2006 12:35 AM
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Another linked idea is that the Iraq war has to do with the dollar - Saddam switched his entire US currency holdings to euros in 2000, and while commentators at the time laughed and said he would lose his shirt, the euro then climbed something like 30% against the dollar. As a result, every $100 that Saddam turned into euros was then worth $130 - a pretty good return on investment for doing nothing. The book Petrodollar Warfare by William Clark (haven't read it) apparently addresses these issues. Perhaps Saddam's real sin in the eyes of the investment banks was where he put that cash (not in a US or British bank, apparently).
Other people (Chris Cook) say that oil traders and investment banks are the ones who actually make all the money off of oil sales, and they don't care at all if the oil sales are denominated in euros or dollars as long as they are the ones brokering the deals - and as long as they are controlling what assets the 'money' is invested in.Chris Cook rebuttal to petrodollar dominance
Any comments out there? I have no idea what to believe on this one, though I'm leaning towards the Chris Cook analysis.
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» RE: Is the petrodollar involved, or is that a myth?
Posted by: brad
» Clean alternative energy provides a way out of this mess
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Clean alternative energy provides a way out of this mess
Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: Clean alternative energy provides a way out of this mess
Posted by: BsAs light
» RE: Clean alternative energy provides a way out of this mess
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Clean alternative energy provides a way out of this mess
Posted by: BsAs light
» RE: Is the petrodollar involved, or is that a myth?
Posted by: Nellymae
» RE: Is the petrodollar involved, or is that a myth?
Posted by: feller
» RE: Is the petrodollar involved, or is that a myth?
Posted by: giles
» RE: Is the petrodollar involved, or is that a myth?
Posted by: RV
» Ron Paul's "End of Dollar Hegemony" excerpt and speech link
Posted by: lmiesse
» RE: "End of Dollar Hegemony" and gold
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Lying is the Bushies! Is the petrodollar involved, or is that a myth?
Posted by: stopthebushies
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Posted by: thinkverybig on Apr 8, 2006 12:43 AM
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I have a problem with CEO's getting paid 2500 times more than the average employee. I have a problem with allowing monopolies to take place, thereby putting massive control of certain businesses in the hands of a few. There are many things I can list that is part of the reason for Americas decline financially, morally, socially. I just hope the PEOPLE wake up and realize that we are headed downhill fast. And thanks to Mr. BUSH.... we might not recover. America will soon lose its so-called SUPER POWER label.
I have a problem with the U.S. allowing damn near every country a better chance of coming into this country than people of color. I have a problem with fair trade... why not allow those poor nations to trade with the U.S.? Why?
Until the United States start treating others fairly in all areas..... it's financial downfall is a given.
WE NEED TO CLEAN HOUSE IN BOTH PARTIES BUT ESPECIALLY THE REPUBLICAN Party. We need a NEW SYSTEM period.
It's time for a REVOLUTION.
Soon to come is "WeMustChange.org"
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» RE: America's soon to fall
Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» something stinks!!!!!
Posted by: gotmyeyeonyou
» RE: something stinks!!!!!
Posted by: aussidawg
» Being fair on Fair Trade
Posted by: equidave
» RE: Being fair on Fair Trade
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: thinkverybig on Apr 8, 2006 12:50 AM
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The poor and disadvantaged cry out for help on a daily basis. I would like to encourage each and every person who has breath and a genuine heart to begin understanding the importance of giving. I would like to encourage all to protest our government for a change in our present way of allocating funds, declare a war on poverty not other nations, and cater to the people not corporations. By helping others, you simply help yourself. Let us all start today making a difference in someone else’s life.
David J. Hudson
david@thinkverybig.com
Soon to come "WeMustChange.org"
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» Trusting the government = recipe for disaster
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Trusting the government = recipe for disaster
Posted by: thinkverybig
» Make that your campaign slogan...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Make that your campaign slogan...
Posted by: thinkverybig
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Posted by: wli on Apr 8, 2006 2:46 AM
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So this is supposed to represent a "culture of debt?" The only culture of debt is the right wing's "starve the beast" tactic, which is deliberately bringing about a fiscal crisis, generally via combinations of prodigious military spending and tax cuts, just like Reagan, in order to create a pretext for eliminating social programs. The "debt crisis" of the lower classes you're trying to poke at is not due to profligate spending occurring en masse. Outside of house and car debt (which is not particularly ominous), it's due to catastrophic health care costs and other catastrophic life events. To a lesser extent, some have resorted to debt for subsistence in the face of less extreme duress.
Contrary to the Republican ideal of creating a right-wing society, this is far more likely to overrun any and all attempts at policing, no matter how vast the GULAG they erect, with desperate attempts to avoid starving to death. Otherwise, it's survival of the richest in a decades-long or longer nationwide Katrina. This has been seen before, though due to climatological factors in the past, in the form of the Great Famine. So it's no mystery at all what will happen.
Also, urging activist groups to take up "fiscal responsibility" is dangerous. You will immediately be presented with a Hobson's choice between social programs and debt, with no allowance for, say, cuts in or redirection of military and prison spending (the right wing strategy for dealing with poverty is dumping the poor in prison en masse). Smear tactics like "tax and spend democrats" will be used against essentially any and all social programs. Smear tactics like "soft on crime" or "weak on defense" will be used against reductions in military and prison spending. There is considerably more work to do than merely proposing these things directly (witness Diebold).
You are likely better off directly bringing as much attention as possible to the right wing's "starve the beast" tactics. It may also be productive to highlight the right wing's use of mass imprisonment on scales literally unprecedented in the history of humanity as their social control strategy. You will also likely be stuck waiting until long after the fiscal crisis in the making since Reagan (if not LBJ and Nixon) before any of these notions gain traction. It will require an intense, sustained multigenerational effort in order to transform the US into anything but a right-wing hellhole, and frankly, when the neocons are done, the US will be a Third World country to boot (in fact, Europeans already deem it so by dint of the weak social programs).
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» RE: watch yourself for cognitive dissonance
Posted by: brad
» RE: watch yourself for cognitive dissonance
Posted by: wli
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Posted by: laredo on Apr 8, 2006 3:34 AM
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» RE: Tribute
Posted by: Erik1968
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Posted by: gazooks on Apr 8, 2006 5:42 AM
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On March 23, the FED suspended reporting the M3, representing the broad measure of money supply, ostensibly due to the FED's perception of M3's cost to publish relative to it's usefulness as a gauge of inflation. The Fed wants control of the public view of inflation to be more "balanced" by limiting the published measure to the much narrower M2. The FED also promotes inflation "mitigation" by applying "hedonic" qualifiers that apply added value to target produced goods through measures of upgrade, thereby reducing the "real" increase in cost as reflected in the CPI and PPI.
So, the FED's program of smoke and mirrors is now reduced to simply smoke.
Bottom line is that the FED wants to obscure the best and broadest measure of money supply at a time that will mark the start of a hyperinflationary collapse. The dollar, first pure fiat as global reserve currency, is on it's death bed.
A great "experiment" in monetary "flexibility" is drawing to a close, and the unspeakably unbridled expansion of credit to individuals, companies, cities, states and nations by our abandonment of fiscal discipline to fuel eternal economic "growth" is about to explode.
Most of the fuel for collapse is hidden from view in a little understood area of highly leveraged debt instruments commonly referred to as "derivatives". Since it is totally unregulated by any government authority, and participated in by virtually every major corporation, bank, pension fund and State and Federal government agency to the tune of over, now keep your legs firmly together, $400,000,000,000,000.00, yep that's trillions, roughly 32 years of GDP. It represents the obligation of asset repayment that reports as nominal asset value, based on extreme leverage of fractional interest, yet is an obligation to repay the entire underlying and ever inflating nominal value. Derivatives can be based on anything of perceived value. Loans of any kind, contracts, real estate, commodities etc., without any controls or government oversight or regulation, NONE, and the scope of the nominal value of derivatives has no historic precedent in financial markets. It is the most enormous overhang of financial obligation in history and no one knows how an unwinding can take place in an environment of precipitous economic decline, in the scramble to liquidate that's inevitable, without the default of virtually every major financial institution in the world.
Now, imagine how busy the U.S. Government will be trying to create the flow of money necessary to nominally bail out the banking system just to keep up appearance of functioning. Now, try to imagine the daily, hourly rate of inflation.
The triggers for economic meltdown abound
If you want a model of the social impacts of a collapse of this size, there are none. One may refer to inflationary events in Argentina, Germany etc. to get a glimpse, but never has there been a culture of instant gratification that will as instantly find none there. Nor has there ever been a pure fiat global reserve currency dominating all markets. A house of cards.
A national economic Katrina, and a hard rain's gonna fall.
Without a prepared population and a government prepared to assist, we're in very deep shit.
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» Maybe. But who's afraid of a ticking clock?
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: anothername on Apr 8, 2006 5:44 AM
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Economics is complicated. There are several linked, but indirectly-releated factors to consider. Analysts differ in their interpretations of what it all means. Nevertheless, the average person is not going to pay attention to a long, detailed article.
In contrast, the commerical media's commentators ignore economic consequences of legislation. Thus, we are told that tax cuts are good because the individual gets to decide how to spend his money, but we are not told that legislation such as Massachusetts passed requiring health insurance (not health care) is telling people how to spend their money.
For the average person to embrace the specifics of economic concern as it relates to governmental policy requires a less academic approach than this article offers. Note that I did not say the average person does not understand the economic concern, but there is a difference between understanding the linked complexities and calling a legislator to complain about high gasoline prices, high property taxes, or lack of health insurance.
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» RE: Too long, too convoluted, too much to grasp
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Too long, too convoluted, too much to grasp
Posted by: schmitta1573
» American citizens can deal with complex issues
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
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Posted by: ReformerRay on Apr 8, 2006 5:58 AM
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Do not go directly at the major problem, which is government acceptance of debt. Instead go at another part of the problem of which the solution is less pain, though still some pain.
The trade deficit must be gradually reduced in size. Most of the commentators on the world scene say the international trading system is potentially unstable because the large U. S. trade deficit is supporting the economic growth of places like China and Japan. These commentators say the large trade deficit carries the seeds of its own distruction, a point reflected in the above article - a point with which I fervently agree. So, all the world has a stake in gradually reducing the dependence of the world trading system on the U. S. trade deficit.
This is a problem created primarily by the U. S., so it should be solved primarily by the U. S., with support from other nations.
What the U. S. should do is admit that some of our long held beliefs must be discarded, rejected. First, is the blind belief that free trade is always and for everybody the best possible basis for carrying on world trade. I will admit, it is the best possible basis for undeveloped countries moving into the global economy. They must open their doors to internatiional trade so as to jump start their economy. But it is not the proper perspective for the U. S. We have already modernized. Our trade barriers are low, too low, in my opinion. Free trade theory has nothing to say to us that will improve our position in the world trade system.
Second, we must discard the idea, developed in the years just after WW II, that the U. S. has the responsibility to lead the world in reducing trade barriers. The U.S. is floundering, not leading the world in trade.
Third, the goal of free trade, to increase the productive efficiency of the whole world, is, again, a goal for a country that is doing very well in international trade, as we were in 1960's.
Japan never embraced the goal of increasing the productive efficiencies of the whole world. If they had, they would have opened the door to world trade in their most inefficient sectors, retail trade and food production. Instead, they protected those industries through all the years of rapid growth to become the second largest economy in the world in the 1980's.
With world trade such a dominant factor in the economic growth of nations, the world, and the U. S., has arrived at the stage where each country should imitate the Japanese of the period 1960 through 1980. At that time, they focused the resources of their government in expanding their ability to export. They succeeded by hard work and utilizing their abilities in science and learning from others. We do not need to follow their specific actions in all details. The important point is to utilize the power of the federal government to place their country in a position to export and grow with the other economies of the world.
But, you say, the U. S. government has been aggressively pursuing every opportunity to open the doors of other countries to acceptance of U. S. exports, to no avail. At least, that approach has not succeeded in reducing the U. S. trade deficit.
True, but the notion of aggressive action by the federal government to put the U. S. in a position to benefit from world trade remains valid.
What the U. S. government must do, at this point in time, is gradually reduce the volume of imports that come into the U. S. closer and closer to the volume of exports the rest of the world is willing to buy from us.
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» Sorry but the devil is in the details
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: ReformerRay
Posted by: wli
» RE: eformerRay
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: ReformerRay
Posted by: wli
» RE: eformerRay
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: ReformerRay
Posted by: wli
» RE: eformerRay
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» ReformerRay
Posted by: ReformerRay
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Posted by: shangrilalad on Apr 8, 2006 6:15 AM
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Plutocratic fascists and their worker ants have schemed and deceived long and hard for the Mexicanization of America, and they won’t be denied. Like global warming, the demise of the middleclass is imminent. The election of a progressive president and congress might slow the process, but the prosperity we once enjoyed is gone, gone.
It will take decades to dig out of the pit the Rabid Right has devised for us. Undoing the New World Order, Globalization, Privatization, Outsourcing, Down Sizing, Monopolization and the Polarization of America will require the greatest effort and sacrifice any country has ever faced.
Are we up to it?
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» RE: Betrayed by the Rabid Right and Cowardly Left
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: Betrayed by the Rabid Right and Cowardly Left
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Return to the gold standard and then repeal, repeal, repeal!
Posted by: lmiesse
» RE: eturn to the gold standard and then repeal, repeal, repeal!
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: eturn to the gold standard and then repeal, repeal, repeal!
Posted by: VisionQuest
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Posted by: constantreader on Apr 8, 2006 6:16 AM
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Another item would be to cut back your lifestyle to the most simple possible. Learn to sew and cook and can and grow some of your own food. At least your own efforts may keep food on the table and clothes on your back
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Posted by: otto on Apr 8, 2006 6:19 AM
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» You see very clearly
Posted by: Artkansas
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Posted by: don_alejandro on Apr 8, 2006 6:28 AM
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I think the projected surplus was 4-5 trillion with a t, not a paltry 4 billion, which is no longer enough to pay for a month in Iraq (not even February).
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» The 2000 budget surplus was $236 Billion
Posted by: Artkansas
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Posted by: ChrisBieber on Apr 8, 2006 6:44 AM
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Economic leveling...and brainwashed and/or ignorant America demanding bread and circuses..THEMSELVES TRILLIONS in debt....
Demos want welfare state
Repugs want warfare state
the real Hobsons choice..
socialism is the "choice" we're given...
why do you keep spinning the plates?????
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» RE: planned collapse and GLOBAL MERGER
Posted by: feller
» RE: planned collapse and GLOBAL MERGER
Posted by: ChrisBieber
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Posted by: DaveB on Apr 8, 2006 7:20 AM
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In the 21st century, we are looking at a world population of 6 billion, likely to rise to 9 billion by mid century. Key resources like oil, water, farmland, forests, ocean fisheries are already strained at present population levels. Environmental impacts like global warming, water pollution, desertification, and loss of topsoil are accelerating.
The point of all this is not to induce panic and despair. But we must realize that economic growth, as the term has traditionally been understood, is no longer an appropriate policy goal. The challenge is to find ways to gradually shrink the economy (in terms of aggregate material consumption) while retaining our most essential human values.
An ethic of cooperation and mututal aid will help facilitate the transition that confronts us. By contrast, the habit of competition and pursuit of self-interest at the expense of others will only make our problems worse.
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» RE: Growth and sustainability
Posted by: schmitta1573
» RE: Growth and sustainability
Posted by: change-agent-denver
» RE: Is this debt really ours?
Posted by: beausoleil
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Posted by: LeonDion on Apr 8, 2006 8:10 AM
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I remember a few years ago, talking to an older lady about the debt. I gave an estimate of each American's share of the debt, and asked her whether she had any plans for repaying her share. Do you know what her reply was?
"I'll leave that for my grandchildren to figure out."
What a responsible and compassionate statement! I think it is so characteristic of the obedient and compliant nature of her generation, and the baby boomers they nurtured.
After the crash, I'm sure that the kids will have a few ideas of what to do with all that Grandmother has saved up! Now that they've been taught by the example given by the 'greatest generation', and the boomers, too! Here's one idea:
BOILED GRANDMOTHER WITH GREENS
1 tablespoon parsley
1/2 teaspoon salt
1 cup dandelion greens, washed
1 salted and preserved thigh of Grandmother
Combine all ingredients, except dandelion greens, in a large pot, and boil until Grandmother is as gray on the inside as she is on the outside. Add greens. Remove from heat, and allow to sit for one minute before serving, (should hunger pangs permit).
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» RE: The 'greatest generation' has prepared us well!
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» You got it: "A lot of them just don't care."
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: You got it: "A lot of them just don't care."
Posted by: mwildfire
» Elvis Costello's "Armed Forces" album was very explicit along the lines you suggest.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: The 'greatest generation' has prepared us well!
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: The 'greatest generation' has prepared us well!
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: The 'greatest generation' has prepared us well!
Posted by: change-agent-denver
» RE: do votes really count anymore?
Posted by: beausoleil
» Vote?
Posted by: LeonDion
» RE: Vote?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Vote?
Posted by: VisionQuest
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Posted by: Jeffersonista on Apr 8, 2006 8:11 AM
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Posted by: Roverton on Apr 8, 2006 8:30 AM
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Posted by: Roverton on Apr 8, 2006 8:34 AM
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» RE: State of Shock - Lulled by the corporate media
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
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Posted by: ReformerRay on Apr 8, 2006 8:43 AM
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Why the sense of inevitability? Why the unwillingness to discuss and speculate about what could be done?
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» RE: eformerRay
Posted by: DaveB
» RE: eformerRay
Posted by: equidave
» RE: eformerRay
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: eformerRay
Posted by: eringhorm
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Apr 8, 2006 8:44 AM
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Sure the middle class and the poor will be saddled with this debt as will all their Children and Great Grand Children.
There's one big difference between the rich and the rest of us.
The rest of us know how to band together to survive. We've been doing it for centuries! Because the wealthy have always screwed things up for everyone else.
I say it's time for the fools that created this mess to pay for the cleanup! Dump the cronies out of office,tax the living shit out of the wealthy poeple and businesses. Greed is a social disease and tax is the cure.
Financial Institutions need to clean up too. They've been
'stealing' our money since the Great Depression of the 20's and 30's.
We need to zero out the debts of all citizens. Convert the theft of our money by compound intrest rates into a flat fee one time intrest rate. Your banker might not have a fancy office to do business out of,but you'll pay off your loans faster.
Due to total incompitance,the Govt should file a Chapt. 11.
Remove all those 'debt spenders' from office. Since the election process is so corrupted,stop giving those bendbrains money. All of it,campaign money,paychecks, the whole shot.
You don't repay thieves by giving them more money to help
them figure out more ways to steal it from you.
Most of the Alternet readers were very young when America had to deal with 20% intrest rates,stale food commodities and even lower paying jobs. I'll go on record now as saying if this current trend does'nt change and the People allow the wool to stay pulled over their eyes,there will be intrest rates greater than 20%. There will be no commodities,stale or otherwise. There will be no raise in minimum wages. There will be no housing programs. While
the rich will get tax breaks,emmissions consessions for their
industries and a ton of taxpayer bailouts. The rich and their Govt cronies think that money and the People are just a numbers game for their benefit. They need some new ones.
There are 250,000,000+ souls in this Country. 1% run everything. Or in a different way,2.5 million greedy egotistical
self-agrandizing jerks, are trying to tell 247.5 million how to live,where to work,what to wear,what to drive and how much
you can be sucked dry for in order to preserve their lifestyle.
I do believe it was Motley Crue that said it best;
EAT THE RICH
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Posted by: SDres11 on Apr 8, 2006 9:57 AM
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» RE: The same government that passes bankruptcy "reform" restrictions against
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: frankly1 on Apr 8, 2006 10:28 AM
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Look at some of the other things Americans wiil believe;
The rapture, we live in a democracy, there is war on terror, Baseball is a "sport". Anything said on Fox News and that they have constitutional "rights".
We can all yammer on about national debts, petro-dollars, social programs and trying to change the system but if you take a hard look at the facts and the evidence the conclusion has to be that the time to act has long since past. The brief window of climate opportunity that allowed us to thrive is quickly closing and we closed it!
We may all get our chance to rage at the storm as it decends but more likely it will be sobbing and wimpering. Another sad thing is that we wiil take most of the planets other living thigs with us.
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» RE: Hello! we must be going!
Posted by: mwildfire
» RE: Hello! we must be going!
Posted by: johste41762
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Posted by: bringbackthe70s on Apr 8, 2006 10:33 AM
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» RE: Hello, Argentina
Posted by: anothername
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Posted by: gonzoskismet on Apr 8, 2006 12:05 PM
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Microsoft have turned other countries into economic giants. Hell, we helped them do it!
There's an old joke that describes the average Americans mentality on this perfectly. 'If your neighbor loses his/her job,
it's a recession. If you lose YOUR job, it's a depression.'
So, while Mom and Pop lie in unmarked graves on the Kansas
plains, everybody went shopping at Wal-Mart and forgot that they ever existed. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Let it all fall apart. We deserve it.
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» Please remember
Posted by: johste41762
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Posted by: beausoleil on Apr 8, 2006 2:00 PM
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» You're right
Posted by: LeonDion
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Posted by: ctzcrank on Apr 8, 2006 3:00 PM
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First of all, the claim that the total debt equals $27,000 per person is derived from dividing the debt by the current estimate of the country population. This is fine except it's only taxpayers who are responsible for redeeming the debt, not children and the retired, at least not yet. And, because there are less than 140 million income taxpayers in this country, the responsibility for the debt amounts to more than twice what you are estimating or more than $54,000 each taxpayer.
Secondly, the foreign countries that have been loaning us money are already balking at U.S. treasuries. It's not something that might happen, it is happening. All anyone has to do to notice this is to follow the results of the Bureau of Public Debt's "auctions." In 1995 only about 50 percent of the treasuries "tendered" were "accepted." This year, it has dropped to about 30 percent despite increasing interest rates.
Thirdly, there's no mention of the completely fraudulent portion of the national debt where almost $3.5 trillion is composed of bogus bonds in equally bogus trust funds that compose the entire "Intragovernmental Holdings" side of the debt. Ninety-two percent of this fraudulent side represents money "borrowed" from entitlements like Social Security which, by itself, now accounts for almost 23 percent of the total debt and is there only under the insane idea that the same money can both be spent and saved. It's nothing but a way to double tax citizens and could be eliminated tomorrow without harm to anyone but the government, the con artists.
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» RE: Good Article, but not quite accurate
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
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Posted by: rollo on Apr 8, 2006 5:17 PM
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No pun intended, but I'm not holding my breath.
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» You never know
Posted by: Monde
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Posted by: albiegf13 on Apr 8, 2006 8:15 PM
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» RE: YAWN....
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: YAWN....
Posted by: albiegf13
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Posted by: Monde on Apr 8, 2006 8:29 PM
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Sometimes his behaviour seems merely irresponsible, and sometimes it seems truly, categorically insane. Whether that matters an iota is another question entirely. What does matter is every indication is that he plans to not leave office. The Republicans are awfully quiet and even the Democrats don't seem to be seriously working on finding a viable '08 candidate. Do they know something we do not?
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Posted by: Monde on Apr 8, 2006 9:08 PM
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» RE: The lack of response has a reason
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: BsAs light on Apr 8, 2006 10:00 PM
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You wouldn’t know it by looking around you, but the US is on the verge of converting the dollar into so many scraps of paper. Just behold the marvels of the most opulent and decadent society mankind has ever known. More millionaires and billionaires call America home than most other countries combined. They have amassed wealth the likes of which most of us simply cannot fathom. 20,000 square foot homes and Aston Martin’s are standard accouterments for America’s “best and brightest”. Private jets and exclusive golf club memberships, 2nd or 3rd homes in Vail and Aspen and Yachts on the Mediterranean are just some of the perks they enjoy. The ultra-rich can expect more of the same for the rest of their lives but those less fortunate souls who have a net-worth under 50 million are going to be in for quite a surprise when the rug is pulled out from under their feet. Clearly they will fair better than you or me but it will be a difficult period of adjustment when they are no longer able to purchase whatever strikes their fancy at that moment. Imagine how wholly intolerable it will be for those of us unlucky enough to be middle class or lower middle class?
Our capitalist system and conspicuous consumerist culture have probably exceeded all expectations when the goal was keeping Americans distracted and focused on the task at hand – enriching the corporate elite on your way to getting a little slice of the American dream for yourself. Like good little workers you set about doing your jobs to the best of your abilities, helping create the monster corporations that are now firing you in favor of more highly educated Indians and Koreans whom they can pay half what they would normally pay your back-talking and rebellious asses. When I have a problem with my credit card statement I ring up my friendly call center in Bombay or Calcutta where I can be guaranteed second-rate service from someone named Rajiv who has only recently mastered the vagaries of my credit card security number on the back, but who gives a shit right. They’re only paying Rajiv 1/3 of what they were paying you and he doesn’t complain when they ask him to stay an extra couple of hours or if he is needed to work Saturday. What it all boils down to is this: The Democrats don’t give a shit about you no matter how much you may fancy they do. You are serving their interests as well those of the Republicans and big business. The government is in the process of phasing out money to make way for its less-than-fiat currency – the Apache attack helicopter and Predator drone, F-16’s and satellite launched hypersonic missiles. This is the new currency of the Bush Administration. When the dollar has collapsed, which will hasten the collapse of the other big 5 fiat currencies, the only option left with which to procure all necessary resources will be through military force.
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Posted by: BsAs light on Apr 8, 2006 10:06 PM
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The US is preparing to corner a good deal of the oil market for its own use. The rest of the world will be left fighting over the scraps. Pretty hard to offer much military resistance when your army cannot power its tanks or get its jets in the air when there is quite simply no fuel . . . The government wants you to keep on spending like there is no tomorrow because figuratively speaking, tomorrow will never come. When the dollar crashes our military will be our proxy shoppers. The problem is that the rest of the world, and I imagine a good deal of our own citizens, will be the ones forced to produce the necessary items that a militaristic government requires to fight a war of attrition with the lion’s share of the rest of the world. The problem is that we are responsible for hastening the dollar’s demise by spending money we don’t have. We love to watch trash T.V. that does little else than hype super-sized SUV’s and $5000 dresses displayed on the red carpet by vacuous people like Paris Hilton. The message is keep on spending – even until it hurts! The government absolutely loves to see it so long as it keeps you fat, happy and ignorant of the broader issues. They keep borrowing to finance your weekly pilgrimages to the mall in order that you feel like a better person in our sick, shallow society. They love to see you going in for that new set of double D’s and lip injections as long as it diverts attention from the 75 people who died in a mosque bombing in Iraq today. Keep it up everybody. Keep living in a fucking fantasy world where things like government conspiracies are for nuts like me and the “refugee camp” being built in your backyard is simply there for “immigrant overflow”. Don’t worry about the Project for the New American Nightmare. This is no longer the land of Thomas Jefferson and Lincoln; it is the land of Halliburton and Tom Delay.
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» RE: -CONT-
Posted by: schmitta1573
» RE: -CONT-
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: -CONT-
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: -CONT-
Posted by: johste41762
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Posted by: aussidawg on Apr 8, 2006 11:41 PM
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Posted by: Whistler on Apr 9, 2006 2:15 AM
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» RE: Let the mofo CRASH
Posted by: symcokid
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Posted by: defiant on Apr 9, 2006 8:12 AM
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Human nature is such that turning things around at this stage is not an option, and folly to suggest. Within 20 years, give or take a foreign policy blunder or two, the US will no longer be of concern to the rest of the democratic world. World leadership can then get back to work solving real global problems and capitalizing on real global benefits.
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» RE: if history is an indicator
Posted by: BsAs light
» RE: if history is an indicator
Posted by: defiant
» RE: if history is an indicator
Posted by: BsAs light
» RE: if history is an indicator
Posted by: defiant
» RE: if history is an indicator
Posted by: BsAs light
» Defiant.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Defiant.
Posted by: defiant
» Simply this.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Simply this.
Posted by: defiant
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Posted by: kungfoofighterx on Apr 9, 2006 10:05 AM
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Let me hear some good ideas and not a bunch wishy washy dooms day economics.
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» RE: I have $3000, what to do with it?
Posted by: BsAs light
» RE: With $3000 you can...
Posted by: beausoleil
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Posted by: The Butcher on Apr 9, 2006 7:50 PM
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Indirect benefits such as jobs, infrastructure etc... are missed altogether. All bricks and no mortar so the old order has been destroyed and communities are wiped out. Similar form of the mythic colonialist economy which formed the backbone of US wealth.
But this time the potential for harm is global not local as it was in the Far West.
I am chinese. You are american. You buy my stuff. It is cheap.
you pay me in junk bonds. I know but it does not matter.
I use those same junk bonds to buy your planes ( Boeings in this instance). I basically get good planes for free since I sold you a lot of junk and paid you with your monkey money......You got cheap shirts,shoes and shit and I got assets. Guess who's ahead?
Oil???? I pay in the same monkey money. In the meantime, my economy grows, my labour is cheap, energy is cheap and I keep my hard currency.Stash it under my mattress or buy real assets.
Why do you think my trade deficit with Europe is half what it is with the US.The EU is the same size as US with a larger population so they should buy more of my junk....Just try to think about this....
So you will default cause you got nothing to export much these days.
All you have are weapons and then, you have embargoed me...
I think you should read the art of war written by our generals a few thousand years ago.
Many wars can be won without shooting a single arrow.
At the moment, I live for free and all my Yuans are under the mattress.
And I can still bargain my junk dollars to buy more technology from Europe when they are desperate to sell say 40 nuclear plants I need from the shelf ( look Areva) or Urnium I have just purchased ( in Dollars) from Australia.
Watch me when I visit your moron in charge next week and sign mega contracts all in US dollars.....Gotta laugh. You ain't that smart!
You'll pretend you are bargaining. I'll pretend I give concessions.. A few Nuclear plants though reluctantly as your nuclear Tech stinks and is below the German/French one...Still. They're your dollars......
Mr Yen bought sixty 787's last year.Touching loyalty really.....Guess Mr yen is so kind as to also pay in Dollars.....Now you wouldn't want me to pay in Euros?
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Apr 9, 2006 8:23 PM
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You grew up in an energy inefficient house, were transported by energy inefficient planes, cars, trucks and buses, ate food trucked and/or flown from distant places which was grown with oil-sourced fertilizer and dam-diverted water, and a whole list of other things. So spare us the generational angst. My parents were of the greatest generation and didn't leave me a truckload of money or real estate. I'm a boomer--NOTHING was given me & I am not alone.
The fact is that our country has pissed away the greatest collection of natural resources any civilization has ever been blessed with and then exploited half of that of the rest of the world. After we spent like drunken sailors on a liberty, we borrowed and spent like crazy. Now the postman is coming up the sidewalk and the Credit Card Statement is in the bag.
Our whole economic infrastructure has been warped and defined by this wasteful and inefficient 50 year binge. Everything from the layout of our cities, to the location of manufacturing plants and farms has been determined by this system. The whole layout of our economy and government is a non-sustainable model and we cannot easily undo the product of 5 decades of market choices and government policy.
When you add up huge public debt, massive private debt, a decaying and inefficient infrastructure, an aging population, unsustainable urban design, a huge and growing imbalance of payments, a poorly educated and prepared high-wage workforce, a rapidly changing worldwide economy, end-stage oil economy, an intransigent government and entrenched and well-heeled lobbyists running everything from City Hall to Congress it adds up to one thing: we are in deep sh*t.
More of the same isn't going to get it. If we do not take action the economic markets of the world will take care of it for us and you will not like the results. Like it or not, that's the hand we have been dealt. The time for blaming and finger pointing is past and the clock is running.
We really cannot wait until 2008 for change, it needs to have started yesterday. Both major parties are still conducting business as usual. The time to choose is now. The time to get involved is now.
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» We really cannot wait until 2008 for change
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» junkies don't change that easily
Posted by: defiant
» RE: You were given nothing?
Posted by: LeonDion
» but the time to act is long past.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: Jamon on Apr 9, 2006 10:10 PM
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I will have to pay $ 500.00 for six months at at interest rate of 31 per cent. Then after six months they'll see if the rate and payments will go down.
O was only late by a few days twice. However, I did charge over limit a few times. When I charged something they did not deny and say you over the limit then. They let charge and then say your over the limit.
So, how many people is this happening to? You are already strapped using your credit cards to live on and now they just doubled your payment.
You now have to pay an extra $ 250 a month what you don't have.
The cold part about it is all they say is go to consumer credit card counseling.
You can no longer file for bankruptcy because of the new law..
So, the banks are getting fatter and fatter by letting you go over your limit and charging an over the limit fee and then charging you a late fee and nwo they double their payments.
Imagine if you have more then one credit card and they all double their payments.
and you also can't re-finance your loan on your house, because the interest rates on mortgages is going up.
What the hell do you do?
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» RE: Credit Card Companies now double payments
Posted by: candide
» RE: Credit Card Companies now double payments
Posted by: shinseiji
» RE: Credit Card Companies now double payments
Posted by: candide
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Posted by: shinseiji on Apr 11, 2006 2:10 PM
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What this logic does not take into account is the means by which this "final judgement" by the global financial marketplace can be held in abeyance, potentially forever. For in the final analysis this argument assumes as a given the first principle of "market fundamentalism", the the law of value operates with absolute, objective force, rather than as a historically constructed human relation, as a relatively limited force.
There appears another possibility: That the USA is acting, precisely as it "relies on military power alone" , to abrogate and hold in (perpetual) abeyance this fundamental law of capitalism. Since this act of breach is fundamentally political in character, it is the analysis of the political determinants of this action, and not one of a purely economic logic, that holds the key to seeing the resolution of this situation. And such a political analysis of the USA would show that, short of a catastrophic military defeat somewhere in the world (also not an impossibility), this situation could persist for longer than one may imagine.
Such an analysis would begin with the observation that the constitution of the North American state is, as J.A. Pocock noted in the preface of his excellent "Machievellian Moment", fundamentally a precapitalist, even anticapitalist, construction. By this is meant not merely the literal Constitution of the Founding Fathers - Pococks' immediate object - but also the historically evolved "living constitution" and reconstitution of the North American republic. If this observation is valid, then as a point of departure for analysis it becomes a relatively straightforward task to show how the political will to "abrogate" the capitalist law of value comes into being as a direct and continuing expression of that fundamental constitution, despite that country's reputation as the world's quintessentially "capitalist" society.
As so we have the basic contradiction: In order to remain that Shining City upon the capitalist heap (the Parasite), the USA must abrogate this fundamental law of capital globally (the Predator). Shades of the Spanish Hapsburg Empire of the 16th-17th century at the endtime of feudal Europe.
But it not only "must": for the USA, it is a political imperative of its (mass, democratic) constitution that it do so. It's political elites - the Kerrys, the Clintons - know this all too well: It is either continue down this path or face certain political extinction at the hands of a bewildered and enraged populace. "Failure is not an option", Mr. Kerry said so well.
In this light the USA is not financed through "the kindness of strangers" but has rather imposed a series of "forced loans" either as protection money (Japan) or in lieu of strategic countermeasures (China). The vast sums of US dollars both sitting idly in the central banks of these countries and reinvested in US Treasuries represent investment withheld from the domestic economies of these countries. As such these sums measure the relative impoverishment (or, in the case of developed Japan, the decade-long depression) of these economies, all transferred instead to the US for the purpose of maintaining the unproductive consumption (the Parasite) and the political-military means to continually reinforce this arrangement (the Predator). And what applies to China and Japan applies to the entire world in one measure or another.
The perpetuation of this arrangement will lead to the destruction of capitalism as the dominant world system, gratis the United States of America. Perhaps that is its ultimate world-historical destiny, but alas much else will face destruction in the process. Another way must be possible.
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Posted by: johste41762 on Apr 12, 2006 11:13 AM
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With all due respect it seems that no one makes any distinctions between politics and economics other than along happiness lines. Does it not matter that politics is based on nonconsent and economics is based on consent?
To argue that when one person denies another person consent over their own existence is criminal but when XX amount of persons do it it becomes magically legal is just an exercise of expressing happiness. There is no magic that makes a nonconsensual event consensual no matter how many people are involved in denying one person or group of persons consent over their own existence.
Hence politics by definition is nonconsensual whereas economics is purely consensual. Bill Gates has billions based 100% on consent. No one is entitled to own a windows package and ownership is based on consent. There is not one person is the whole world that can make a consensual claim against Bill Gate’s billions of dollars. All claims are made along the lines of happiness recognition….it is unfair, he broke our (nonconsensual) laws, social justice etc etc. etc….well is your happiness the source of law? Is the law in your mouth?
Once you deny any person consent over their own existence you are in the same boat with all of the persons you say you are not. The only difference is you would terrorize a different group of people rather than the group of people the current political leader is terrorizing, but the only purpose of having the law in your mouth is to get what you want by nonconsent.
How do you defined consent over one’s own existence is another issue…but it can be done consensually with corresponding concepts to external reality….so does consent matter?????? Does the human mind matter? or just happiness below the neck? Without consent at the individual level (no magic imputations) any and every political person is politics as normal. Comply with my happiness requirements or shall I say the word die…..
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Posted by: goldenbb on Apr 13, 2006 6:13 AM
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So the dollar crashes? So what? So our government ceases to be able to spend trilliions on its war machine and there isn't even enough money to fly the troops home. I fail to see the bad part.
So I get to start shooting the scumbags who will try to loot my food from me? That will be cathartic for me--I'm sick of pretending I like all the reprobate jackoffs who are turning every place they move to into yet another bleak ghetto. I could never be so lucky as to get to shoot them without repurcussions. I'm tired of paying 30% of my income towards the welfare of people whom I hate.
So I get a chance to shoot back at the federal/state/local thugs in black uniforms who want to incarcerate me for treating them like the useless sacks of undereducated, over egotistical, public money sucking crap that they are? Again, I could NEVER be so friggin lucky. Let them all find legitimate work (they never will be able to, beacuse they are sadists who prefer to brutalize people).
I am looking forward to the collapse of the dollar. I don't fear it at all. Let it come. I'm sick of working in an office and pretending I care about anything I do. I hate being a "homeowner" and having to run off to Lowe's or Home Depot every frigging weekend to buy this or that "must have" item. I'm tired of "yard maintenance"--what a waste of time that is! It's fine with me if won't have to bother with it anymore after the price of fuel goes to $20/gallon or whatever. I'm tired of the "the mall" and all the useless people who have no other ambition than to head there on the weekend as if that is their temple. Please, take it all!
I'm sick of the way people treat each other in the US; nobody knows how to directly relate to one another anymore. I have no idea if it is the mass media, or the culture of materialism, being raised to fear everything, or what, but I hate it. I didn't grow up with this level of alienation.
Other things I hate: The drug war, the war in Iraq, basically, every damn thing our government does, be it military or social. I hate the IRS, ATF, NSA, CIA, TSA, NEA, all of them. I would love to see them all out of jobs, how great would that be? Awesome! We might have some chance of having what is known as freedom. We might actually get leaders who are competent at their jobs again someday. Take the money out of politics--way, way out.
If the Boomers feel they must precipitate an economic collapse as their final insult to the United States, I say we let them and be thankful rather than fight what is impossible to stop. It's just like them to want to do that, they have laid waste to everything they have touched.
I'm sick of it all and I'm sick of worrying about it, and most of all, I'm sick to death of dumb academic types who have never done a damn thing in their stupid lives posting messages on Alternet telling me how it's gonna be. If the collapse does come, let all the big shots in their cushy grant-funded university jobs step into the bread line. They're the champions of statism, it's about time they learned what their religion has accomplished.
Now go out and have a nice day and forget about all this nonsense!
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» RE: what a sorry bunch you all are
Posted by: VisionQuest
» RE: what a sorry bunch you all are
Posted by: BsAs light
Comments are closed-
Posted by: MMiddle on Apr 13, 2006 2:11 PM
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» FOOD - WATER - AIR - fuck the house!
Posted by: BsAs light
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Posted by: pghosh on May 2, 2006 10:15 AM
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The cost of the American debt is the price the world has to pay for Pax Americana and the supersized lifestyles Americans are able to lead based on foreign debt is the reward for having won the cold war and established USA as the sole superpower.
Do you really think anyone in the world has the guts to ask America to pay its debt?
No these are perpetual debts never to be repayed. Rather they are a kind of tribute to America from the rest of the world in return for maintaining the largest and strongest army in the world.
Tell me who would you rather be? A chinese factory worker who works like crazy sewing Levis jeans but could never in her whole life afford to buy one because the Yuan is kept artificially low by the Chinese govt or an American middle class guy with a huge house in the burbs an SUV and a closet full of levis jeans all of it financed on low interest loans from the Chinese govt? Let me explain the last portion. Most home and car loans are resold by banks to FreddieMac and similar institutions which then in turn sell them to the Chinese and Japanese so most American mortgages are held by the Chinese and Japanese government. These governments are able to do this as whatever money their people earn by working hard these governments take it away from them(using artificial exchange rates) and use it to give 0 percent loans to American consumers. Yes 0% when you consider the depreciation of the dollar is more than the interest rates. Why they do this? Are they crazy? No they are scared of America. If they dont do it the US will kick their butts with a shock and awe cmpaign of Democracy in China or a new WW2 war crimes tribunal and retrospective war reparations in the case of China.
So instead of worrying about the debt Americans should celebrate it and enjoy the best time a country could ever have. This is the reward for winng the cold war. dont look a gift horse in the mouth
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 8, 2006 12:35 AM
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Another linked idea is that the Iraq war has to do with the dollar - Saddam switched his entire US currency holdings to euros in 2000, and while commentators at the time laughed and said he would lose his shirt, the euro then climbed something like 30% against the dollar. As a result, every $100 that Saddam turned into euros was then worth $130 - a pretty good return on investment for doing nothing. The book Petrodollar Warfare by William Clark (haven't read it) apparently addresses these issues. Perhaps Saddam's real sin in the eyes of the investment banks was where he put that cash (not in a US or British bank, apparently).
Other people (Chris Cook) say that oil traders and investment banks are the ones who actually make all the money off of oil sales, and they don't care at all if the oil sales are denominated in euros or dollars as long as they are the ones brokering the deals - and as long as they are controlling what assets the 'money' is invested in.Chris Cook rebuttal to petrodollar dominance
Any comments out there? I have no idea what to believe on this one, though I'm leaning towards the Chris Cook analysis.
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» RE: Is the petrodollar involved, or is that a myth?
Posted by: brad
» Clean alternative energy provides a way out of this mess
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Clean alternative energy provides a way out of this mess
Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: Clean alternative energy provides a way out of this mess
Posted by: BsAs light
» RE: Clean alternative energy provides a way out of this mess
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Clean alternative energy provides a way out of this mess
Posted by: BsAs light
» RE: Is the petrodollar involved, or is that a myth?
Posted by: Nellymae
» RE: Is the petrodollar involved, or is that a myth?
Posted by: feller
» RE: Is the petrodollar involved, or is that a myth?
Posted by: giles
» RE: Is the petrodollar involved, or is that a myth?
Posted by: RV
» Ron Paul's "End of Dollar Hegemony" excerpt and speech link
Posted by: lmiesse
» RE: "End of Dollar Hegemony" and gold
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Lying is the Bushies! Is the petrodollar involved, or is that a myth?
Posted by: stopthebushies
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Posted by: thinkverybig on Apr 8, 2006 12:43 AM
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I have a problem with CEO's getting paid 2500 times more than the average employee. I have a problem with allowing monopolies to take place, thereby putting massive control of certain businesses in the hands of a few. There are many things I can list that is part of the reason for Americas decline financially, morally, socially. I just hope the PEOPLE wake up and realize that we are headed downhill fast. And thanks to Mr. BUSH.... we might not recover. America will soon lose its so-called SUPER POWER label.
I have a problem with the U.S. allowing damn near every country a better chance of coming into this country than people of color. I have a problem with fair trade... why not allow those poor nations to trade with the U.S.? Why?
Until the United States start treating others fairly in all areas..... it's financial downfall is a given.
WE NEED TO CLEAN HOUSE IN BOTH PARTIES BUT ESPECIALLY THE REPUBLICAN Party. We need a NEW SYSTEM period.
It's time for a REVOLUTION.
Soon to come is "WeMustChange.org"
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» RE: America's soon to fall
Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» something stinks!!!!!
Posted by: gotmyeyeonyou
» RE: something stinks!!!!!
Posted by: aussidawg
» Being fair on Fair Trade
Posted by: equidave
» RE: Being fair on Fair Trade
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: thinkverybig on Apr 8, 2006 12:50 AM
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The poor and disadvantaged cry out for help on a daily basis. I would like to encourage each and every person who has breath and a genuine heart to begin understanding the importance of giving. I would like to encourage all to protest our government for a change in our present way of allocating funds, declare a war on poverty not other nations, and cater to the people not corporations. By helping others, you simply help yourself. Let us all start today making a difference in someone else’s life.
David J. Hudson
david@thinkverybig.com
Soon to come "WeMustChange.org"
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» Trusting the government = recipe for disaster
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Trusting the government = recipe for disaster
Posted by: thinkverybig
» Make that your campaign slogan...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Make that your campaign slogan...
Posted by: thinkverybig
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Posted by: wli on Apr 8, 2006 2:46 AM
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So this is supposed to represent a "culture of debt?" The only culture of debt is the right wing's "starve the beast" tactic, which is deliberately bringing about a fiscal crisis, generally via combinations of prodigious military spending and tax cuts, just like Reagan, in order to create a pretext for eliminating social programs. The "debt crisis" of the lower classes you're trying to poke at is not due to profligate spending occurring en masse. Outside of house and car debt (which is not particularly ominous), it's due to catastrophic health care costs and other catastrophic life events. To a lesser extent, some have resorted to debt for subsistence in the face of less extreme duress.
Contrary to the Republican ideal of creating a right-wing society, this is far more likely to overrun any and all attempts at policing, no matter how vast the GULAG they erect, with desperate attempts to avoid starving to death. Otherwise, it's survival of the richest in a decades-long or longer nationwide Katrina. This has been seen before, though due to climatological factors in the past, in the form of the Great Famine. So it's no mystery at all what will happen.
Also, urging activist groups to take up "fiscal responsibility" is dangerous. You will immediately be presented with a Hobson's choice between social programs and debt, with no allowance for, say, cuts in or redirection of military and prison spending (the right wing strategy for dealing with poverty is dumping the poor in prison en masse). Smear tactics like "tax and spend democrats" will be used against essentially any and all social programs. Smear tactics like "soft on crime" or "weak on defense" will be used against reductions in military and prison spending. There is considerably more work to do than merely proposing these things directly (witness Diebold).
You are likely better off directly bringing as much attention as possible to the right wing's "starve the beast" tactics. It may also be productive to highlight the right wing's use of mass imprisonment on scales literally unprecedented in the history of humanity as their social control strategy. You will also likely be stuck waiting until long after the fiscal crisis in the making since Reagan (if not LBJ and Nixon) before any of these notions gain traction. It will require an intense, sustained multigenerational effort in order to transform the US into anything but a right-wing hellhole, and frankly, when the neocons are done, the US will be a Third World country to boot (in fact, Europeans already deem it so by dint of the weak social programs).
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» RE: watch yourself for cognitive dissonance
Posted by: brad
» RE: watch yourself for cognitive dissonance
Posted by: wli
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Posted by: laredo on Apr 8, 2006 3:34 AM
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» RE: Tribute
Posted by: Erik1968
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Posted by: gazooks on Apr 8, 2006 5:42 AM
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On March 23, the FED suspended reporting the M3, representing the broad measure of money supply, ostensibly due to the FED's perception of M3's cost to publish relative to it's usefulness as a gauge of inflation. The Fed wants control of the public view of inflation to be more "balanced" by limiting the published measure to the much narrower M2. The FED also promotes inflation "mitigation" by applying "hedonic" qualifiers that apply added value to target produced goods through measures of upgrade, thereby reducing the "real" increase in cost as reflected in the CPI and PPI.
So, the FED's program of smoke and mirrors is now reduced to simply smoke.
Bottom line is that the FED wants to obscure the best and broadest measure of money supply at a time that will mark the start of a hyperinflationary collapse. The dollar, first pure fiat as global reserve currency, is on it's death bed.
A great "experiment" in monetary "flexibility" is drawing to a close, and the unspeakably unbridled expansion of credit to individuals, companies, cities, states and nations by our abandonment of fiscal discipline to fuel eternal economic "growth" is about to explode.
Most of the fuel for collapse is hidden from view in a little understood area of highly leveraged debt instruments commonly referred to as "derivatives". Since it is totally unregulated by any government authority, and participated in by virtually every major corporation, bank, pension fund and State and Federal government agency to the tune of over, now keep your legs firmly together, $400,000,000,000,000.00, yep that's trillions, roughly 32 years of GDP. It represents the obligation of asset repayment that reports as nominal asset value, based on extreme leverage of fractional interest, yet is an obligation to repay the entire underlying and ever inflating nominal value. Derivatives can be based on anything of perceived value. Loans of any kind, contracts, real estate, commodities etc., without any controls or government oversight or regulation, NONE, and the scope of the nominal value of derivatives has no historic precedent in financial markets. It is the most enormous overhang of financial obligation in history and no one knows how an unwinding can take place in an environment of precipitous economic decline, in the scramble to liquidate that's inevitable, without the default of virtually every major financial institution in the world.
Now, imagine how busy the U.S. Government will be trying to create the flow of money necessary to nominally bail out the banking system just to keep up appearance of functioning. Now, try to imagine the daily, hourly rate of inflation.
The triggers for economic meltdown abound
If you want a model of the social impacts of a collapse of this size, there are none. One may refer to inflationary events in Argentina, Germany etc. to get a glimpse, but never has there been a culture of instant gratification that will as instantly find none there. Nor has there ever been a pure fiat global reserve currency dominating all markets. A house of cards.
A national economic Katrina, and a hard rain's gonna fall.
Without a prepared population and a government prepared to assist, we're in very deep shit.
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» Maybe. But who's afraid of a ticking clock?
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: anothername on Apr 8, 2006 5:44 AM
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Economics is complicated. There are several linked, but indirectly-releated factors to consider. Analysts differ in their interpretations of what it all means. Nevertheless, the average person is not going to pay attention to a long, detailed article.
In contrast, the commerical media's commentators ignore economic consequences of legislation. Thus, we are told that tax cuts are good because the individual gets to decide how to spend his money, but we are not told that legislation such as Massachusetts passed requiring health insurance (not health care) is telling people how to spend their money.
For the average person to embrace the specifics of economic concern as it relates to governmental policy requires a less academic approach than this article offers. Note that I did not say the average person does not understand the economic concern, but there is a difference between understanding the linked complexities and calling a legislator to complain about high gasoline prices, high property taxes, or lack of health insurance.
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» RE: Too long, too convoluted, too much to grasp
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Too long, too convoluted, too much to grasp
Posted by: schmitta1573
» American citizens can deal with complex issues
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
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Posted by: ReformerRay on Apr 8, 2006 5:58 AM
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Do not go directly at the major problem, which is government acceptance of debt. Instead go at another part of the problem of which the solution is less pain, though still some pain.
The trade deficit must be gradually reduced in size. Most of the commentators on the world scene say the international trading system is potentially unstable because the large U. S. trade deficit is supporting the economic growth of places like China and Japan. These commentators say the large trade deficit carries the seeds of its own distruction, a point reflected in the above article - a point with which I fervently agree. So, all the world has a stake in gradually reducing the dependence of the world trading system on the U. S. trade deficit.
This is a problem created primarily by the U. S., so it should be solved primarily by the U. S., with support from other nations.
What the U. S. should do is admit that some of our long held beliefs must be discarded, rejected. First, is the blind belief that free trade is always and for everybody the best possible basis for carrying on world trade. I will admit, it is the best possible basis for undeveloped countries moving into the global economy. They must open their doors to internatiional trade so as to jump start their economy. But it is not the proper perspective for the U. S. We have already modernized. Our trade barriers are low, too low, in my opinion. Free trade theory has nothing to say to us that will improve our position in the world trade system.
Second, we must discard the idea, developed in the years just after WW II, that the U. S. has the responsibility to lead the world in reducing trade barriers. The U.S. is floundering, not leading the world in trade.
Third, the goal of free trade, to increase the productive efficiency of the whole world, is, again, a goal for a country that is doing very well in international trade, as we were in 1960's.
Japan never embraced the goal of increasing the productive efficiencies of the whole world. If they had, they would have opened the door to world trade in their most inefficient sectors, retail trade and food production. Instead, they protected those industries through all the years of rapid growth to become the second largest economy in the world in the 1980's.
With world trade such a dominant factor in the economic growth of nations, the world, and the U. S., has arrived at the stage where each country should imitate the Japanese of the period 1960 through 1980. At that time, they focused the resources of their government in expanding their ability to export. They succeeded by hard work and utilizing their abilities in science and learning from others. We do not need to follow their specific actions in all details. The important point is to utilize the power of the federal government to place their country in a position to export and grow with the other economies of the world.
But, you say, the U. S. government has been aggressively pursuing every opportunity to open the doors of other countries to acceptance of U. S. exports, to no avail. At least, that approach has not succeeded in reducing the U. S. trade deficit.
True, but the notion of aggressive action by the federal government to put the U. S. in a position to benefit from world trade remains valid.
What the U. S. government must do, at this point in time, is gradually reduce the volume of imports that come into the U. S. closer and closer to the volume of exports the rest of the world is willing to buy from us.
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» Sorry but the devil is in the details
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: ReformerRay
Posted by: wli
» RE: eformerRay
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: ReformerRay
Posted by: wli
» RE: eformerRay
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: ReformerRay
Posted by: wli
» RE: eformerRay
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» ReformerRay
Posted by: ReformerRay
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Posted by: shangrilalad on Apr 8, 2006 6:15 AM
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Plutocratic fascists and their worker ants have schemed and deceived long and hard for the Mexicanization of America, and they won’t be denied. Like global warming, the demise of the middleclass is imminent. The election of a progressive president and congress might slow the process, but the prosperity we once enjoyed is gone, gone.
It will take decades to dig out of the pit the Rabid Right has devised for us. Undoing the New World Order, Globalization, Privatization, Outsourcing, Down Sizing, Monopolization and the Polarization of America will require the greatest effort and sacrifice any country has ever faced.
Are we up to it?
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» RE: Betrayed by the Rabid Right and Cowardly Left
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: Betrayed by the Rabid Right and Cowardly Left
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Return to the gold standard and then repeal, repeal, repeal!
Posted by: lmiesse
» RE: eturn to the gold standard and then repeal, repeal, repeal!
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: eturn to the gold standard and then repeal, repeal, repeal!
Posted by: VisionQuest
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Posted by: constantreader on Apr 8, 2006 6:16 AM
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Another item would be to cut back your lifestyle to the most simple possible. Learn to sew and cook and can and grow some of your own food. At least your own efforts may keep food on the table and clothes on your back
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Posted by: otto on Apr 8, 2006 6:19 AM
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» You see very clearly
Posted by: Artkansas
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Posted by: don_alejandro on Apr 8, 2006 6:28 AM
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I think the projected surplus was 4-5 trillion with a t, not a paltry 4 billion, which is no longer enough to pay for a month in Iraq (not even February).
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» The 2000 budget surplus was $236 Billion
Posted by: Artkansas
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Posted by: ChrisBieber on Apr 8, 2006 6:44 AM
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Economic leveling...and brainwashed and/or ignorant America demanding bread and circuses..THEMSELVES TRILLIONS in debt....
Demos want welfare state
Repugs want warfare state
the real Hobsons choice..
socialism is the "choice" we're given...
why do you keep spinning the plates?????
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» RE: planned collapse and GLOBAL MERGER
Posted by: feller
» RE: planned collapse and GLOBAL MERGER
Posted by: ChrisBieber
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Posted by: DaveB on Apr 8, 2006 7:20 AM
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In the 21st century, we are looking at a world population of 6 billion, likely to rise to 9 billion by mid century. Key resources like oil, water, farmland, forests, ocean fisheries are already strained at present population levels. Environmental impacts like global warming, water pollution, desertification, and loss of topsoil are accelerating.
The point of all this is not to induce panic and despair. But we must realize that economic growth, as the term has traditionally been understood, is no longer an appropriate policy goal. The challenge is to find ways to gradually shrink the economy (in terms of aggregate material consumption) while retaining our most essential human values.
An ethic of cooperation and mututal aid will help facilitate the transition that confronts us. By contrast, the habit of competition and pursuit of self-interest at the expense of others will only make our problems worse.
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» RE: Growth and sustainability
Posted by: schmitta1573
» RE: Growth and sustainability
Posted by: change-agent-denver
» RE: Is this debt really ours?
Posted by: beausoleil
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Posted by: LeonDion on Apr 8, 2006 8:10 AM
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I remember a few years ago, talking to an older lady about the debt. I gave an estimate of each American's share of the debt, and asked her whether she had any plans for repaying her share. Do you know what her reply was?
"I'll leave that for my grandchildren to figure out."
What a responsible and compassionate statement! I think it is so characteristic of the obedient and compliant nature of her generation, and the baby boomers they nurtured.
After the crash, I'm sure that the kids will have a few ideas of what to do with all that Grandmother has saved up! Now that they've been taught by the example given by the 'greatest generation', and the boomers, too! Here's one idea:
BOILED GRANDMOTHER WITH GREENS
1 tablespoon parsley
1/2 teaspoon salt
1 cup dandelion greens, washed
1 salted and preserved thigh of Grandmother
Combine all ingredients, except dandelion greens, in a large pot, and boil until Grandmother is as gray on the inside as she is on the outside. Add greens. Remove from heat, and allow to sit for one minute before serving, (should hunger pangs permit).
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» RE: The 'greatest generation' has prepared us well!
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» You got it: "A lot of them just don't care."
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: You got it: "A lot of them just don't care."
Posted by: mwildfire
» Elvis Costello's "Armed Forces" album was very explicit along the lines you suggest.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: The 'greatest generation' has prepared us well!
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: The 'greatest generation' has prepared us well!
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: The 'greatest generation' has prepared us well!
Posted by: change-agent-denver
» RE: do votes really count anymore?
Posted by: beausoleil
» Vote?
Posted by: LeonDion
» RE: Vote?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Vote?
Posted by: VisionQuest
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Posted by: Jeffersonista on Apr 8, 2006 8:11 AM
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Posted by: Roverton on Apr 8, 2006 8:30 AM
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Posted by: Roverton on Apr 8, 2006 8:34 AM
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» RE: State of Shock - Lulled by the corporate media
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
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Posted by: ReformerRay on Apr 8, 2006 8:43 AM
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Why the sense of inevitability? Why the unwillingness to discuss and speculate about what could be done?
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» RE: eformerRay
Posted by: DaveB
» RE: eformerRay
Posted by: equidave
» RE: eformerRay
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: eformerRay
Posted by: eringhorm
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Apr 8, 2006 8:44 AM
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Sure the middle class and the poor will be saddled with this debt as will all their Children and Great Grand Children.
There's one big difference between the rich and the rest of us.
The rest of us know how to band together to survive. We've been doing it for centuries! Because the wealthy have always screwed things up for everyone else.
I say it's time for the fools that created this mess to pay for the cleanup! Dump the cronies out of office,tax the living shit out of the wealthy poeple and businesses. Greed is a social disease and tax is the cure.
Financial Institutions need to clean up too. They've been
'stealing' our money since the Great Depression of the 20's and 30's.
We need to zero out the debts of all citizens. Convert the theft of our money by compound intrest rates into a flat fee one time intrest rate. Your banker might not have a fancy office to do business out of,but you'll pay off your loans faster.
Due to total incompitance,the Govt should file a Chapt. 11.
Remove all those 'debt spenders' from office. Since the election process is so corrupted,stop giving those bendbrains money. All of it,campaign money,paychecks, the whole shot.
You don't repay thieves by giving them more money to help
them figure out more ways to steal it from you.
Most of the Alternet readers were very young when America had to deal with 20% intrest rates,stale food commodities and even lower paying jobs. I'll go on record now as saying if this current trend does'nt change and the People allow the wool to stay pulled over their eyes,there will be intrest rates greater than 20%. There will be no commodities,stale or otherwise. There will be no raise in minimum wages. There will be no housing programs. While
the rich will get tax breaks,emmissions consessions for their
industries and a ton of taxpayer bailouts. The rich and their Govt cronies think that money and the People are just a numbers game for their benefit. They need some new ones.
There are 250,000,000+ souls in this Country. 1% run everything. Or in a different way,2.5 million greedy egotistical
self-agrandizing jerks, are trying to tell 247.5 million how to live,where to work,what to wear,what to drive and how much
you can be sucked dry for in order to preserve their lifestyle.
I do believe it was Motley Crue that said it best;
EAT THE RICH
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Posted by: SDres11 on Apr 8, 2006 9:57 AM
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» RE: The same government that passes bankruptcy "reform" restrictions against
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: frankly1 on Apr 8, 2006 10:28 AM
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Look at some of the other things Americans wiil believe;
The rapture, we live in a democracy, there is war on terror, Baseball is a "sport". Anything said on Fox News and that they have constitutional "rights".
We can all yammer on about national debts, petro-dollars, social programs and trying to change the system but if you take a hard look at the facts and the evidence the conclusion has to be that the time to act has long since past. The brief window of climate opportunity that allowed us to thrive is quickly closing and we closed it!
We may all get our chance to rage at the storm as it decends but more likely it will be sobbing and wimpering. Another sad thing is that we wiil take most of the planets other living thigs with us.
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» RE: Hello! we must be going!
Posted by: mwildfire
» RE: Hello! we must be going!
Posted by: johste41762
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Posted by: bringbackthe70s on Apr 8, 2006 10:33 AM
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» RE: Hello, Argentina
Posted by: anothername
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Posted by: gonzoskismet on Apr 8, 2006 12:05 PM
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Microsoft have turned other countries into economic giants. Hell, we helped them do it!
There's an old joke that describes the average Americans mentality on this perfectly. 'If your neighbor loses his/her job,
it's a recession. If you lose YOUR job, it's a depression.'
So, while Mom and Pop lie in unmarked graves on the Kansas
plains, everybody went shopping at Wal-Mart and forgot that they ever existed. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Let it all fall apart. We deserve it.
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» Please remember
Posted by: johste41762
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Posted by: beausoleil on Apr 8, 2006 2:00 PM
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» You're right
Posted by: LeonDion
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Posted by: ctzcrank on Apr 8, 2006 3:00 PM
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First of all, the claim that the total debt equals $27,000 per person is derived from dividing the debt by the current estimate of the country population. This is fine except it's only taxpayers who are responsible for redeeming the debt, not children and the retired, at least not yet. And, because there are less than 140 million income taxpayers in this country, the responsibility for the debt amounts to more than twice what you are estimating or more than $54,000 each taxpayer.
Secondly, the foreign countries that have been loaning us money are already balking at U.S. treasuries. It's not something that might happen, it is happening. All anyone has to do to notice this is to follow the results of the Bureau of Public Debt's "auctions." In 1995 only about 50 percent of the treasuries "tendered" were "accepted." This year, it has dropped to about 30 percent despite increasing interest rates.
Thirdly, there's no mention of the completely fraudulent portion of the national debt where almost $3.5 trillion is composed of bogus bonds in equally bogus trust funds that compose the entire "Intragovernmental Holdings" side of the debt. Ninety-two percent of this fraudulent side represents money "borrowed" from entitlements like Social Security which, by itself, now accounts for almost 23 percent of the total debt and is there only under the insane idea that the same money can both be spent and saved. It's nothing but a way to double tax citizens and could be eliminated tomorrow without harm to anyone but the government, the con artists.
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» RE: Good Article, but not quite accurate
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
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Posted by: rollo on Apr 8, 2006 5:17 PM
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No pun intended, but I'm not holding my breath.
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» You never know
Posted by: Monde
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Posted by: albiegf13 on Apr 8, 2006 8:15 PM
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» RE: YAWN....
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: YAWN....
Posted by: albiegf13
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Posted by: Monde on Apr 8, 2006 8:29 PM
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Sometimes his behaviour seems merely irresponsible, and sometimes it seems truly, categorically insane. Whether that matters an iota is another question entirely. What does matter is every indication is that he plans to not leave office. The Republicans are awfully quiet and even the Democrats don't seem to be seriously working on finding a viable '08 candidate. Do they know something we do not?
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Posted by: Monde on Apr 8, 2006 9:08 PM
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» RE: The lack of response has a reason
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: BsAs light on Apr 8, 2006 10:00 PM
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You wouldn’t know it by looking around you, but the US is on the verge of converting the dollar into so many scraps of paper. Just behold the marvels of the most opulent and decadent society mankind has ever known. More millionaires and billionaires call America home than most other countries combined. They have amassed wealth the likes of which most of us simply cannot fathom. 20,000 square foot homes and Aston Martin’s are standard accouterments for America’s “best and brightest”. Private jets and exclusive golf club memberships, 2nd or 3rd homes in Vail and Aspen and Yachts on the Mediterranean are just some of the perks they enjoy. The ultra-rich can expect more of the same for the rest of their lives but those less fortunate souls who have a net-worth under 50 million are going to be in for quite a surprise when the rug is pulled out from under their feet. Clearly they will fair better than you or me but it will be a difficult period of adjustment when they are no longer able to purchase whatever strikes their fancy at that moment. Imagine how wholly intolerable it will be for those of us unlucky enough to be middle class or lower middle class?
Our capitalist system and conspicuous consumerist culture have probably exceeded all expectations when the goal was keeping Americans distracted and focused on the task at hand – enriching the corporate elite on your way to getting a little slice of the American dream for yourself. Like good little workers you set about doing your jobs to the best of your abilities, helping create the monster corporations that are now firing you in favor of more highly educated Indians and Koreans whom they can pay half what they would normally pay your back-talking and rebellious asses. When I have a problem with my credit card statement I ring up my friendly call center in Bombay or Calcutta where I can be guaranteed second-rate service from someone named Rajiv who has only recently mastered the vagaries of my credit card security number on the back, but who gives a shit right. They’re only paying Rajiv 1/3 of what they were paying you and he doesn’t complain when they ask him to stay an extra couple of hours or if he is needed to work Saturday. What it all boils down to is this: The Democrats don’t give a shit about you no matter how much you may fancy they do. You are serving their interests as well those of the Republicans and big business. The government is in the process of phasing out money to make way for its less-than-fiat currency – the Apache attack helicopter and Predator drone, F-16’s and satellite launched hypersonic missiles. This is the new currency of the Bush Administration. When the dollar has collapsed, which will hasten the collapse of the other big 5 fiat currencies, the only option left with which to procure all necessary resources will be through military force.
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Posted by: BsAs light on Apr 8, 2006 10:06 PM
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The US is preparing to corner a good deal of the oil market for its own use. The rest of the world will be left fighting over the scraps. Pretty hard to offer much military resistance when your army cannot power its tanks or get its jets in the air when there is quite simply no fuel . . . The government wants you to keep on spending like there is no tomorrow because figuratively speaking, tomorrow will never come. When the dollar crashes our military will be our proxy shoppers. The problem is that the rest of the world, and I imagine a good deal of our own citizens, will be the ones forced to produce the necessary items that a militaristic government requires to fight a war of attrition with the lion’s share of the rest of the world. The problem is that we are responsible for hastening the dollar’s demise by spending money we don’t have. We love to watch trash T.V. that does little else than hype super-sized SUV’s and $5000 dresses displayed on the red carpet by vacuous people like Paris Hilton. The message is keep on spending – even until it hurts! The government absolutely loves to see it so long as it keeps you fat, happy and ignorant of the broader issues. They keep borrowing to finance your weekly pilgrimages to the mall in order that you feel like a better person in our sick, shallow society. They love to see you going in for that new set of double D’s and lip injections as long as it diverts attention from the 75 people who died in a mosque bombing in Iraq today. Keep it up everybody. Keep living in a fucking fantasy world where things like government conspiracies are for nuts like me and the “refugee camp” being built in your backyard is simply there for “immigrant overflow”. Don’t worry about the Project for the New American Nightmare. This is no longer the land of Thomas Jefferson and Lincoln; it is the land of Halliburton and Tom Delay.
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» RE: -CONT-
Posted by: schmitta1573
» RE: -CONT-
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: -CONT-
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: -CONT-
Posted by: johste41762
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Posted by: aussidawg on Apr 8, 2006 11:41 PM
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Posted by: Whistler on Apr 9, 2006 2:15 AM
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» RE: Let the mofo CRASH
Posted by: symcokid
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Posted by: defiant on Apr 9, 2006 8:12 AM
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Human nature is such that turning things around at this stage is not an option, and folly to suggest. Within 20 years, give or take a foreign policy blunder or two, the US will no longer be of concern to the rest of the democratic world. World leadership can then get back to work solving real global problems and capitalizing on real global benefits.
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» RE: if history is an indicator
Posted by: BsAs light
» RE: if history is an indicator
Posted by: defiant
» RE: if history is an indicator
Posted by: BsAs light
» RE: if history is an indicator
Posted by: defiant
» RE: if history is an indicator
Posted by: BsAs light
» Defiant.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Defiant.
Posted by: defiant
» Simply this.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Simply this.
Posted by: defiant
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Posted by: kungfoofighterx on Apr 9, 2006 10:05 AM
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Let me hear some good ideas and not a bunch wishy washy dooms day economics.
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» RE: I have $3000, what to do with it?
Posted by: BsAs light
» RE: With $3000 you can...
Posted by: beausoleil
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Posted by: The Butcher on Apr 9, 2006 7:50 PM
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Indirect benefits such as jobs, infrastructure etc... are missed altogether. All bricks and no mortar so the old order has been destroyed and communities are wiped out. Similar form of the mythic colonialist economy which formed the backbone of US wealth.
But this time the potential for harm is global not local as it was in the Far West.
I am chinese. You are american. You buy my stuff. It is cheap.
you pay me in junk bonds. I know but it does not matter.
I use those same junk bonds to buy your planes ( Boeings in this instance). I basically get good planes for free since I sold you a lot of junk and paid you with your monkey money......You got cheap shirts,shoes and shit and I got assets. Guess who's ahead?
Oil???? I pay in the same monkey money. In the meantime, my economy grows, my labour is cheap, energy is cheap and I keep my hard currency.Stash it under my mattress or buy real assets.
Why do you think my trade deficit with Europe is half what it is with the US.The EU is the same size as US with a larger population so they should buy more of my junk....Just try to think about this....
So you will default cause you got nothing to export much these days.
All you have are weapons and then, you have embargoed me...
I think you should read the art of war written by our generals a few thousand years ago.
Many wars can be won without shooting a single arrow.
At the moment, I live for free and all my Yuans are under the mattress.
And I can still bargain my junk dollars to buy more technology from Europe when they are desperate to sell say 40 nuclear plants I need from the shelf ( look Areva) or Urnium I have just purchased ( in Dollars) from Australia.
Watch me when I visit your moron in charge next week and sign mega contracts all in US dollars.....Gotta laugh. You ain't that smart!
You'll pretend you are bargaining. I'll pretend I give concessions.. A few Nuclear plants though reluctantly as your nuclear Tech stinks and is below the German/French one...Still. They're your dollars......
Mr Yen bought sixty 787's last year.Touching loyalty really.....Guess Mr yen is so kind as to also pay in Dollars.....Now you wouldn't want me to pay in Euros?
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Apr 9, 2006 8:23 PM
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You grew up in an energy inefficient house, were transported by energy inefficient planes, cars, trucks and buses, ate food trucked and/or flown from distant places which was grown with oil-sourced fertilizer and dam-diverted water, and a whole list of other things. So spare us the generational angst. My parents were of the greatest generation and didn't leave me a truckload of money or real estate. I'm a boomer--NOTHING was given me & I am not alone.
The fact is that our country has pissed away the greatest collection of natural resources any civilization has ever been blessed with and then exploited half of that of the rest of the world. After we spent like drunken sailors on a liberty, we borrowed and spent like crazy. Now the postman is coming up the sidewalk and the Credit Card Statement is in the bag.
Our whole economic infrastructure has been warped and defined by this wasteful and inefficient 50 year binge. Everything from the layout of our cities, to the location of manufacturing plants and farms has been determined by this system. The whole layout of our economy and government is a non-sustainable model and we cannot easily undo the product of 5 decades of market choices and government policy.
When you add up huge public debt, massive private debt, a decaying and inefficient infrastructure, an aging population, unsustainable urban design, a huge and growing imbalance of payments, a poorly educated and prepared high-wage workforce, a rapidly changing worldwide economy, end-stage oil economy, an intransigent government and entrenched and well-heeled lobbyists running everything from City Hall to Congress it adds up to one thing: we are in deep sh*t.
More of the same isn't going to get it. If we do not take action the economic markets of the world will take care of it for us and you will not like the results. Like it or not, that's the hand we have been dealt. The time for blaming and finger pointing is past and the clock is running.
We really cannot wait until 2008 for change, it needs to have started yesterday. Both major parties are still conducting business as usual. The time to choose is now. The time to get involved is now.
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» We really cannot wait until 2008 for change
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» junkies don't change that easily
Posted by: defiant
» RE: You were given nothing?
Posted by: LeonDion
» but the time to act is long past.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: Jamon on Apr 9, 2006 10:10 PM
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I will have to pay $ 500.00 for six months at at interest rate of 31 per cent. Then after six months they'll see if the rate and payments will go down.
O was only late by a few days twice. However, I did charge over limit a few times. When I charged something they did not deny and say you over the limit then. They let charge and then say your over the limit.
So, how many people is this happening to? You are already strapped using your credit cards to live on and now they just doubled your payment.
You now have to pay an extra $ 250 a month what you don't have.
The cold part about it is all they say is go to consumer credit card counseling.
You can no longer file for bankruptcy because of the new law..
So, the banks are getting fatter and fatter by letting you go over your limit and charging an over the limit fee and then charging you a late fee and nwo they double their payments.
Imagine if you have more then one credit card and they all double their payments.
and you also can't re-finance your loan on your house, because the interest rates on mortgages is going up.
What the hell do you do?
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» RE: Credit Card Companies now double payments
Posted by: candide
» RE: Credit Card Companies now double payments
Posted by: shinseiji
» RE: Credit Card Companies now double payments
Posted by: candide
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Posted by: shinseiji on Apr 11, 2006 2:10 PM
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What this logic does not take into account is the means by which this "final judgement" by the global financial marketplace can be held in abeyance, potentially forever. For in the final analysis this argument assumes as a given the first principle of "market fundamentalism", the the law of value operates with absolute, objective force, rather than as a historically constructed human relation, as a relatively limited force.
There appears another possibility: That the USA is acting, precisely as it "relies on military power alone" , to abrogate and hold in (perpetual) abeyance this fundamental law of capitalism. Since this act of breach is fundamentally political in character, it is the analysis of the political determinants of this action, and not one of a purely economic logic, that holds the key to seeing the resolution of this situation. And such a political analysis of the USA would show that, short of a catastrophic military defeat somewhere in the world (also not an impossibility), this situation could persist for longer than one may imagine.
Such an analysis would begin with the observation that the constitution of the North American state is, as J.A. Pocock noted in the preface of his excellent "Machievellian Moment", fundamentally a precapitalist, even anticapitalist, construction. By this is meant not merely the literal Constitution of the Founding Fathers - Pococks' immediate object - but also the historically evolved "living constitution" and reconstitution of the North American republic. If this observation is valid, then as a point of departure for analysis it becomes a relatively straightforward task to show how the political will to "abrogate" the capitalist law of value comes into being as a direct and continuing expression of that fundamental constitution, despite that country's reputation as the world's quintessentially "capitalist" society.
As so we have the basic contradiction: In order to remain that Shining City upon the capitalist heap (the Parasite), the USA must abrogate this fundamental law of capital globally (the Predator). Shades of the Spanish Hapsburg Empire of the 16th-17th century at the endtime of feudal Europe.
But it not only "must": for the USA, it is a political imperative of its (mass, democratic) constitution that it do so. It's political elites - the Kerrys, the Clintons - know this all too well: It is either continue down this path or face certain political extinction at the hands of a bewildered and enraged populace. "Failure is not an option", Mr. Kerry said so well.
In this light the USA is not financed through "the kindness of strangers" but has rather imposed a series of "forced loans" either as protection money (Japan) or in lieu of strategic countermeasures (China). The vast sums of US dollars both sitting idly in the central banks of these countries and reinvested in US Treasuries represent investment withheld from the domestic economies of these countries. As such these sums measure the relative impoverishment (or, in the case of developed Japan, the decade-long depression) of these economies, all transferred instead to the US for the purpose of maintaining the unproductive consumption (the Parasite) and the political-military means to continually reinforce this arrangement (the Predator). And what applies to China and Japan applies to the entire world in one measure or another.
The perpetuation of this arrangement will lead to the destruction of capitalism as the dominant world system, gratis the United States of America. Perhaps that is its ultimate world-historical destiny, but alas much else will face destruction in the process. Another way must be possible.
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Posted by: johste41762 on Apr 12, 2006 11:13 AM
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With all due respect it seems that no one makes any distinctions between politics and economics other than along happiness lines. Does it not matter that politics is based on nonconsent and economics is based on consent?
To argue that when one person denies another person consent over their own existence is criminal but when XX amount of persons do it it becomes magically legal is just an exercise of expressing happiness. There is no magic that makes a nonconsensual event consensual no matter how many people are involved in denying one person or group of persons consent over their own existence.
Hence politics by definition is nonconsensual whereas economics is purely consensual. Bill Gates has billions based 100% on consent. No one is entitled to own a windows package and ownership is based on consent. There is not one person is the whole world that can make a consensual claim against Bill Gate’s billions of dollars. All claims are made along the lines of happiness recognition….it is unfair, he broke our (nonconsensual) laws, social justice etc etc. etc….well is your happiness the source of law? Is the law in your mouth?
Once you deny any person consent over their own existence you are in the same boat with all of the persons you say you are not. The only difference is you would terrorize a different group of people rather than the group of people the current political leader is terrorizing, but the only purpose of having the law in your mouth is to get what you want by nonconsent.
How do you defined consent over one’s own existence is another issue…but it can be done consensually with corresponding concepts to external reality….so does consent matter?????? Does the human mind matter? or just happiness below the neck? Without consent at the individual level (no magic imputations) any and every political person is politics as normal. Comply with my happiness requirements or shall I say the word die…..
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Posted by: goldenbb on Apr 13, 2006 6:13 AM
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So the dollar crashes? So what? So our government ceases to be able to spend trilliions on its war machine and there isn't even enough money to fly the troops home. I fail to see the bad part.
So I get to start shooting the scumbags who will try to loot my food from me? That will be cathartic for me--I'm sick of pretending I like all the reprobate jackoffs who are turning every place they move to into yet another bleak ghetto. I could never be so lucky as to get to shoot them without repurcussions. I'm tired of paying 30% of my income towards the welfare of people whom I hate.
So I get a chance to shoot back at the federal/state/local thugs in black uniforms who want to incarcerate me for treating them like the useless sacks of undereducated, over egotistical, public money sucking crap that they are? Again, I could NEVER be so friggin lucky. Let them all find legitimate work (they never will be able to, beacuse they are sadists who prefer to brutalize people).
I am looking forward to the collapse of the dollar. I don't fear it at all. Let it come. I'm sick of working in an office and pretending I care about anything I do. I hate being a "homeowner" and having to run off to Lowe's or Home Depot every frigging weekend to buy this or that "must have" item. I'm tired of "yard maintenance"--what a waste of time that is! It's fine with me if won't have to bother with it anymore after the price of fuel goes to $20/gallon or whatever. I'm tired of the "the mall" and all the useless people who have no other ambition than to head there on the weekend as if that is their temple. Please, take it all!
I'm sick of the way people treat each other in the US; nobody knows how to directly relate to one another anymore. I have no idea if it is the mass media, or the culture of materialism, being raised to fear everything, or what, but I hate it. I didn't grow up with this level of alienation.
Other things I hate: The drug war, the war in Iraq, basically, every damn thing our government does, be it military or social. I hate the IRS, ATF, NSA, CIA, TSA, NEA, all of them. I would love to see them all out of jobs, how great would that be? Awesome! We might have some chance of having what is known as freedom. We might actually get leaders who are competent at their jobs again someday. Take the money out of politics--way, way out.
If the Boomers feel they must precipitate an economic collapse as their final insult to the United States, I say we let them and be thankful rather than fight what is impossible to stop. It's just like them to want to do that, they have laid waste to everything they have touched.
I'm sick of it all and I'm sick of worrying about it, and most of all, I'm sick to death of dumb academic types who have never done a damn thing in their stupid lives posting messages on Alternet telling me how it's gonna be. If the collapse does come, let all the big shots in their cushy grant-funded university jobs step into the bread line. They're the champions of statism, it's about time they learned what their religion has accomplished.
Now go out and have a nice day and forget about all this nonsense!
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» RE: what a sorry bunch you all are
Posted by: VisionQuest
» RE: what a sorry bunch you all are
Posted by: BsAs light
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Posted by: MMiddle on Apr 13, 2006 2:11 PM
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» FOOD - WATER - AIR - fuck the house!
Posted by: BsAs light
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Posted by: pghosh on May 2, 2006 10:15 AM
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The cost of the American debt is the price the world has to pay for Pax Americana and the supersized lifestyles Americans are able to lead based on foreign debt is the reward for having won the cold war and established USA as the sole superpower.
Do you really think anyone in the world has the guts to ask America to pay its debt?
No these are perpetual debts never to be repayed. Rather they are a kind of tribute to America from the rest of the world in return for maintaining the largest and strongest army in the world.
Tell me who would you rather be? A chinese factory worker who works like crazy sewing Levis jeans but could never in her whole life afford to buy one because the Yuan is kept artificially low by the Chinese govt or an American middle class guy with a huge house in the burbs an SUV and a closet full of levis jeans all of it financed on low interest loans from the Chinese govt? Let me explain the last portion. Most home and car loans are resold by banks to FreddieMac and similar institutions which then in turn sell them to the Chinese and Japanese so most American mortgages are held by the Chinese and Japanese government. These governments are able to do this as whatever money their people earn by working hard these governments take it away from them(using artificial exchange rates) and use it to give 0 percent loans to American consumers. Yes 0% when you consider the depreciation of the dollar is more than the interest rates. Why they do this? Are they crazy? No they are scared of America. If they dont do it the US will kick their butts with a shock and awe cmpaign of Democracy in China or a new WW2 war crimes tribunal and retrospective war reparations in the case of China.
So instead of worrying about the debt Americans should celebrate it and enjoy the best time a country could ever have. This is the reward for winng the cold war. dont look a gift horse in the mouth
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