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Crumbling Under Debt

By John F. Ince, AlterNet. Posted April 8, 2006.


Americans are relying on borrowed money to maintain our standard of living. A major crash is coming unless we take action now.

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Last month, for the third time during the presidency of George W. Bush, the U.S. Congress raised America's debt ceiling. By bumping up our own credit limit, the country's leaders allowed us to technically avoid defaulting on our loans, but the move raises disturbing questions about the resolve of our leaders to ever put the country on a sustainable borrowing path.

Economists and businesspeople have been warning for some time that sooner or later, America's binge of borrowing must come to an end, or we will all suffer drastic consequences. Despite widespread concern about America's increasing debt load, the issue lacks the sort of "sex appeal" that the media needs to go at the issue more aggressively. And without media attention, politicians feel little pressure to deal with the issue in a substantive way.

According to Peter G. Peterson, former secretary of commerce under President Nixon, and today chairman of The Blackstone Group, "There are very serious people that believe our current fiscal irresponsibility is heading this country towards a hard landing." A hard landing is a period that combines rising interest rates with rising inflation rates. That would hit Americans right where it hurts, in the pocketbook, by decreasing their purchasing power at a time when everything costs more.

Today, the average American's share of the national debt is $27,000 and rising. How much longer can this continue? While no one can predict the day of reckoning, this much is for sure: Every day we ignore the problem, we increase the chances that the problem will have severe, if not catastrophic, consequences.

"Sooner or later" is rapidly becoming sooner

In the last few weeks, we began to see signals that the consequences may come sooner than most Americans expect. According to Business Week, both the European Central Bank and the Bank of Japan have raised their interest rates -- which could signal that the days of foreign investors propping up the U. S. economy may soon be on the wane. Bottom line, this potentially will have serious consequences for all Americans, but especially for average Americans living on the edge of poverty.

The first consequence will be a rapid decline in Americans' standard of living. Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke insists the economy is strong, because many of the traditional measures of economic growth remain solid. Inventory levels, corporate profits and unemployment statistics all point towards continued growth. But what about the $3 billion a day that Americans cumulatively spend on interest payments? What about the estimated $834 billion that Americans have borrowed off their mortgages last year alone? Do average Americans have any kind of savings to use as a cushion in the event of a "hard landing?" Can an already-hard-working single mom just go back into the job market to make ends meet when serious inflation kicks in?

Second, should our debt levels continue to increase at unsustainable rates, we will soon reach a point where foreign investors demand an interest rate premium for lending to us. Or worse yet, they may simply decide to put their money in other financial instruments than U. S. Treasury bonds, which will suck the wind out of the U. S. economy very rapidly and likely lead to recession or a depression.

Third, weaknesses in the U. S. economy will cause the value dollar to weaken relative to foreign currencies. When this happens, as it inevitably must, everything Americans buy from abroad will cost more. And considering that America's manufacturing base has all but evaporated, we buy just about everything from abroad. With our dollar worth increasingly less, virtually every industry will start to feel inflationary pressures, leading to layoffs and a further downward cycle for the economy.

Fourth and most fundamentally, our debt crisis has serious implications for America's status as a world leader. When Britain was the world's most powerful country, it was the world's leading moneylender. But when England became a debtor nation, their stature in world affairs rapidly declined. The lessons of history are clear: A nation's borrowing from abroad is generally a precursor to decline. Harvard economics professor, Benjamin Friedman, says in the TIME-BOMB documentary, "Again and again it has always been the world's leading lending country that has been the premier country in terms of political influence, diplomatic influence and cultural influence. Today we are no longer the world's leading lending country. In fact we are now the world's biggest debtor country, and we are continuing to wield influence on the basis of military prowess alone."

How did we get in this mess?

The root causes and consequences of this situation are explored thoroughly in the TIME-BOMB documentary, and they go much deeper than simply movements in interest rates and capital flows.

Most pointedly, there has been a fundamental shift in political attitudes towards debt, leading towards fiscal irresponsibility by our leaders in Washington. Since taking office, the Bush administration has added $2.5 trillion to the national debt, from $5.662 trillion when Bush took office in January 2001 up to $8.170 trillion on New Year's Day 2006. This represents an astounding increase of 44 percent during a period when prior projections suggested a $4 billion surplus. Despite this alarming increase in the debt during Bush's presidency, no one in a position of power has seriously proposed any measures that would address the root causes of the problem.


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John Ince wrote, directed and produced the documentary film, Time Bomb.

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Is the petrodollar involved, or is that a myth?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 8, 2006 12:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One thought is that the value of the dollar is propped up due to the need of foreign central banks to maintain a large on-hand reserve of U.S. dollars in order to purchase oil on the international oil exchanges, where oil is sold for dollars only. The idea is that if other currencies could be used to purchase oil, all those dollars would come flooding back into the US and cause the value of the dollar to plummet - leaving the US in the same state that Argentina is in.

Another linked idea is that the Iraq war has to do with the dollar - Saddam switched his entire US currency holdings to euros in 2000, and while commentators at the time laughed and said he would lose his shirt, the euro then climbed something like 30% against the dollar. As a result, every $100 that Saddam turned into euros was then worth $130 - a pretty good return on investment for doing nothing. The book Petrodollar Warfare by William Clark (haven't read it) apparently addresses these issues. Perhaps Saddam's real sin in the eyes of the investment banks was where he put that cash (not in a US or British bank, apparently).

Other people (Chris Cook) say that oil traders and investment banks are the ones who actually make all the money off of oil sales, and they don't care at all if the oil sales are denominated in euros or dollars as long as they are the ones brokering the deals - and as long as they are controlling what assets the 'money' is invested in.Chris Cook rebuttal to petrodollar dominance

Any comments out there? I have no idea what to believe on this one, though I'm leaning towards the Chris Cook analysis.

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» RE: "End of Dollar Hegemony" and gold Posted by: thoughtcriminal
America's soon to fall
Posted by: thinkverybig on Apr 8, 2006 12:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is on point. Now let me add my two cents.....

I have a problem with CEO's getting paid 2500 times more than the average employee. I have a problem with allowing monopolies to take place, thereby putting massive control of certain businesses in the hands of a few. There are many things I can list that is part of the reason for Americas decline financially, morally, socially. I just hope the PEOPLE wake up and realize that we are headed downhill fast. And thanks to Mr. BUSH.... we might not recover. America will soon lose its so-called SUPER POWER label.

I have a problem with the U.S. allowing damn near every country a better chance of coming into this country than people of color. I have a problem with fair trade... why not allow those poor nations to trade with the U.S.? Why?

Until the United States start treating others fairly in all areas..... it's financial downfall is a given.


WE NEED TO CLEAN HOUSE IN BOTH PARTIES BUT ESPECIALLY THE REPUBLICAN Party. We need a NEW SYSTEM period.

It's time for a REVOLUTION.

Soon to come is "WeMustChange.org"

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» RE: America's soon to fall Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» something stinks!!!!! Posted by: gotmyeyeonyou
» RE: something stinks!!!!! Posted by: aussidawg
» Being fair on Fair Trade Posted by: equidave
» RE: Being fair on Fair Trade Posted by: Lincoln fan
My additonal two cents
Posted by: thinkverybig on Apr 8, 2006 12:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In today’s society, there’s the tendency to focus on self, self and self again. Companies are driven by profits and increasing production. People are expendable like never before and job security no longer exists. Compassion in the corporate view is giving to get back or giving to appear as being concerned or supporting the community. The government passes laws that benefit corporations and not the people. Why does someone who’s late paying a credit card have to pay a $29.00 late fee? Why must we pay $2.00 to use an ATM and also be charged a fee by our own bank? People, businesses and banks tend to give or lend money to those who are not in need. But those who do need are denied the opportunity. What about the poor? The simple concept of “It’s better to give than receive” is not being practiced in a sincere manner. We as a society need to start giving more of ourselves and finances to assist those who are in need as opposed to those who are not in need. It’s funny how people who are truly in need are neglected while people with money are bombarded with opportunities and more money. It’s funny how the government caters to corporations and the rich while overlooking those who need help the most, a true sign of how lost we are as a society and that must change. We all need to start opening our eyes and see the signs that we are on the wrong track. Stop being brainwashed by the mass media and open our eyes to see the plight of our society, plight of the world. Let’s open our eyes to those who are disadvantaged and give them a hand up, the time is now. If you have never struggled, then you can’t fully expect to understand how it is to go without food and possibly shelter, be late paying your bills, go to bed with a whole lot of stress.

The poor and disadvantaged cry out for help on a daily basis. I would like to encourage each and every person who has breath and a genuine heart to begin understanding the importance of giving. I would like to encourage all to protest our government for a change in our present way of allocating funds, declare a war on poverty not other nations, and cater to the people not corporations. By helping others, you simply help yourself. Let us all start today making a difference in someone else’s life.



David J. Hudson
david@thinkverybig.com

Soon to come "WeMustChange.org"

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» Make that your campaign slogan... Posted by: ABetterFuture
watch yourself for cognitive dissonance
Posted by: wli on Apr 8, 2006 2:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most pointedly, there has been a fundamental shift in political attitudes towards debt, leading towards fiscal irresponsibility by our leaders in Washington. Since taking office, the Bush administration has added $2.5 trillion to the national debt, from $5.662 trillion when Bush took office in January 2001 up to $8.170 trillion on New Year's Day 2006. This represents an astounding increase of 44 percent during a period when prior projections suggested a $4 billion surplus. Despite this alarming increase in the debt during Bush's presidency, no one in a position of power has seriously proposed any measures that would address the root causes of the problem.

So this is supposed to represent a "culture of debt?" The only culture of debt is the right wing's "starve the beast" tactic, which is deliberately bringing about a fiscal crisis, generally via combinations of prodigious military spending and tax cuts, just like Reagan, in order to create a pretext for eliminating social programs. The "debt crisis" of the lower classes you're trying to poke at is not due to profligate spending occurring en masse. Outside of house and car debt (which is not particularly ominous), it's due to catastrophic health care costs and other catastrophic life events. To a lesser extent, some have resorted to debt for subsistence in the face of less extreme duress.

Contrary to the Republican ideal of creating a right-wing society, this is far more likely to overrun any and all attempts at policing, no matter how vast the GULAG they erect, with desperate attempts to avoid starving to death. Otherwise, it's survival of the richest in a decades-long or longer nationwide Katrina. This has been seen before, though due to climatological factors in the past, in the form of the Great Famine. So it's no mystery at all what will happen.

Also, urging activist groups to take up "fiscal responsibility" is dangerous. You will immediately be presented with a Hobson's choice between social programs and debt, with no allowance for, say, cuts in or redirection of military and prison spending (the right wing strategy for dealing with poverty is dumping the poor in prison en masse). Smear tactics like "tax and spend democrats" will be used against essentially any and all social programs. Smear tactics like "soft on crime" or "weak on defense" will be used against reductions in military and prison spending. There is considerably more work to do than merely proposing these things directly (witness Diebold).

You are likely better off directly bringing as much attention as possible to the right wing's "starve the beast" tactics. It may also be productive to highlight the right wing's use of mass imprisonment on scales literally unprecedented in the history of humanity as their social control strategy. You will also likely be stuck waiting until long after the fiscal crisis in the making since Reagan (if not LBJ and Nixon) before any of these notions gain traction. It will require an intense, sustained multigenerational effort in order to transform the US into anything but a right-wing hellhole, and frankly, when the neocons are done, the US will be a Third World country to boot (in fact, Europeans already deem it so by dint of the weak social programs).

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Tribute
Posted by: laredo on Apr 8, 2006 3:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let me admit right off the bat that I have a dilatant’s interest in this sort of thing so feel free to help me out here. So my question is: has the US government any intention of repaying its debts? As I understand it, all dept that is held by all of those foreign countries amounts to nothing more that a form of tribute to the empire…like the Romans, Ancient Egyptians, etc. That is, big time extortion. Of course, the earlier empires found out the hard way that the party couldn’t last forever. Meanwhile, some ex-pats like me are becoming quite religious by praying for the collapse of the dollar. The sooner that happens, the safer the rest of us will feel.

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» RE: Tribute Posted by: Erik1968
Duck and Cover
Posted by: gazooks on Apr 8, 2006 5:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excellent article, however, the most fundamental aspect of our soon to be realized economic collapse, is the destruction of the dollar.
On March 23, the FED suspended reporting the M3, representing the broad measure of money supply, ostensibly due to the FED's perception of M3's cost to publish relative to it's usefulness as a gauge of inflation. The Fed wants control of the public view of inflation to be more "balanced" by limiting the published measure to the much narrower M2. The FED also promotes inflation "mitigation" by applying "hedonic" qualifiers that apply added value to target produced goods through measures of upgrade, thereby reducing the "real" increase in cost as reflected in the CPI and PPI.
So, the FED's program of smoke and mirrors is now reduced to simply smoke.
Bottom line is that the FED wants to obscure the best and broadest measure of money supply at a time that will mark the start of a hyperinflationary collapse. The dollar, first pure fiat as global reserve currency, is on it's death bed.
A great "experiment" in monetary "flexibility" is drawing to a close, and the unspeakably unbridled expansion of credit to individuals, companies, cities, states and nations by our abandonment of fiscal discipline to fuel eternal economic "growth" is about to explode.
Most of the fuel for collapse is hidden from view in a little understood area of highly leveraged debt instruments commonly referred to as "derivatives". Since it is totally unregulated by any government authority, and participated in by virtually every major corporation, bank, pension fund and State and Federal government agency to the tune of over, now keep your legs firmly together, $400,000,000,000,000.00, yep that's trillions, roughly 32 years of GDP. It represents the obligation of asset repayment that reports as nominal asset value, based on extreme leverage of fractional interest, yet is an obligation to repay the entire underlying and ever inflating nominal value. Derivatives can be based on anything of perceived value. Loans of any kind, contracts, real estate, commodities etc., without any controls or government oversight or regulation, NONE, and the scope of the nominal value of derivatives has no historic precedent in financial markets. It is the most enormous overhang of financial obligation in history and no one knows how an unwinding can take place in an environment of precipitous economic decline, in the scramble to liquidate that's inevitable, without the default of virtually every major financial institution in the world.
Now, imagine how busy the U.S. Government will be trying to create the flow of money necessary to nominally bail out the banking system just to keep up appearance of functioning. Now, try to imagine the daily, hourly rate of inflation.
The triggers for economic meltdown abound
If you want a model of the social impacts of a collapse of this size, there are none. One may refer to inflationary events in Argentina, Germany etc. to get a glimpse, but never has there been a culture of instant gratification that will as instantly find none there. Nor has there ever been a pure fiat global reserve currency dominating all markets. A house of cards.
A national economic Katrina, and a hard rain's gonna fall.
Without a prepared population and a government prepared to assist, we're in very deep shit.

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Too long, too convoluted, too much to grasp
Posted by: anothername on Apr 8, 2006 5:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The items mentioned in this article are nothing new and have been covered regularly in recent years. The call to urge politically-oriented groups to cover debt-based economic issues with greater priority was new, though.

Economics is complicated. There are several linked, but indirectly-releated factors to consider. Analysts differ in their interpretations of what it all means. Nevertheless, the average person is not going to pay attention to a long, detailed article.

In contrast, the commerical media's commentators ignore economic consequences of legislation. Thus, we are told that tax cuts are good because the individual gets to decide how to spend his money, but we are not told that legislation such as Massachusetts passed requiring health insurance (not health care) is telling people how to spend their money.

For the average person to embrace the specifics of economic concern as it relates to governmental policy requires a less academic approach than this article offers. Note that I did not say the average person does not understand the economic concern, but there is a difference between understanding the linked complexities and calling a legislator to complain about high gasoline prices, high property taxes, or lack of health insurance.

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ReformerRay
Posted by: ReformerRay on Apr 8, 2006 5:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In contrast to most people, I know where to start on reforming this system. I have been struggling with what to do for some time.

Do not go directly at the major problem, which is government acceptance of debt. Instead go at another part of the problem of which the solution is less pain, though still some pain.

The trade deficit must be gradually reduced in size. Most of the commentators on the world scene say the international trading system is potentially unstable because the large U. S. trade deficit is supporting the economic growth of places like China and Japan. These commentators say the large trade deficit carries the seeds of its own distruction, a point reflected in the above article - a point with which I fervently agree. So, all the world has a stake in gradually reducing the dependence of the world trading system on the U. S. trade deficit.

This is a problem created primarily by the U. S., so it should be solved primarily by the U. S., with support from other nations.

What the U. S. should do is admit that some of our long held beliefs must be discarded, rejected. First, is the blind belief that free trade is always and for everybody the best possible basis for carrying on world trade. I will admit, it is the best possible basis for undeveloped countries moving into the global economy. They must open their doors to internatiional trade so as to jump start their economy. But it is not the proper perspective for the U. S. We have already modernized. Our trade barriers are low, too low, in my opinion. Free trade theory has nothing to say to us that will improve our position in the world trade system.

Second, we must discard the idea, developed in the years just after WW II, that the U. S. has the responsibility to lead the world in reducing trade barriers. The U.S. is floundering, not leading the world in trade.

Third, the goal of free trade, to increase the productive efficiency of the whole world, is, again, a goal for a country that is doing very well in international trade, as we were in 1960's.

Japan never embraced the goal of increasing the productive efficiencies of the whole world. If they had, they would have opened the door to world trade in their most inefficient sectors, retail trade and food production. Instead, they protected those industries through all the years of rapid growth to become the second largest economy in the world in the 1980's.

With world trade such a dominant factor in the economic growth of nations, the world, and the U. S., has arrived at the stage where each country should imitate the Japanese of the period 1960 through 1980. At that time, they focused the resources of their government in expanding their ability to export. They succeeded by hard work and utilizing their abilities in science and learning from others. We do not need to follow their specific actions in all details. The important point is to utilize the power of the federal government to place their country in a position to export and grow with the other economies of the world.

But, you say, the U. S. government has been aggressively pursuing every opportunity to open the doors of other countries to acceptance of U. S. exports, to no avail. At least, that approach has not succeeded in reducing the U. S. trade deficit.

True, but the notion of aggressive action by the federal government to put the U. S. in a position to benefit from world trade remains valid.

What the U. S. government must do, at this point in time, is gradually reduce the volume of imports that come into the U. S. closer and closer to the volume of exports the rest of the world is willing to buy from us.

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» Sorry but the devil is in the details Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: ReformerRay Posted by: wli
» RE: eformerRay Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: ReformerRay Posted by: wli
» RE: eformerRay Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: ReformerRay Posted by: wli
» RE: eformerRay Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» ReformerRay Posted by: ReformerRay
Betrayed by the Rabid Right and Cowardly Left
Posted by: shangrilalad on Apr 8, 2006 6:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A major crash is coming no matter what.

Plutocratic fascists and their worker ants have schemed and deceived long and hard for the Mexicanization of America, and they won’t be denied. Like global warming, the demise of the middleclass is imminent. The election of a progressive president and congress might slow the process, but the prosperity we once enjoyed is gone, gone.

It will take decades to dig out of the pit the Rabid Right has devised for us. Undoing the New World Order, Globalization, Privatization, Outsourcing, Down Sizing, Monopolization and the Polarization of America will require the greatest effort and sacrifice any country has ever faced.

Are we up to it?

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Items 7 and 8
Posted by: constantreader on Apr 8, 2006 6:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would add another item or two to that list above. In your own life, I would suggest getting out of personal debt. Someone without a load of debt just might be able to ride out the crash.
Another item would be to cut back your lifestyle to the most simple possible. Learn to sew and cook and can and grow some of your own food. At least your own efforts may keep food on the table and clothes on your back

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otto
Posted by: otto on Apr 8, 2006 6:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of my fears is that this will drag on just long enough until the Democrats, if they ever get their act together, get a president elected (which is all most people see) and control of congress...then things will collapse and they will be blamed because most people didn't see it coming.

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» You see very clearly Posted by: Artkansas
Significant Typo
Posted by: don_alejandro on Apr 8, 2006 6:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the Bush administration has added $2.5 trillion to the national debt, from $5.662 trillion when Bush took office in January 2001 up to $8.170 trillion on New Year's Day 2006. This represents an astounding increase of 44 percent during a period when prior projections suggested a $4 billion surplus.

I think the projected surplus was 4-5 trillion with a t, not a paltry 4 billion, which is no longer enough to pay for a month in Iraq (not even February).

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planned collapse and GLOBAL MERGER
Posted by: ChrisBieber on Apr 8, 2006 6:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
long the goal of the ONE WORLDERS(interesting the quoted Peter Peterson! was the CHAIRMAN in the 80's of THE COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS(CFR). Since 1921 been THE LEADERS IN THE GLOBALIZATION and SOCIALIZATION of the UNITED STATES to effectively economically and politically MERGE us all into a 1 WORLD GOVERNMENT.
Economic leveling...and brainwashed and/or ignorant America demanding bread and circuses..THEMSELVES TRILLIONS in debt....
Demos want welfare state
Repugs want warfare state
the real Hobsons choice..
socialism is the "choice" we're given...
why do you keep spinning the plates?????

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Growth and sustainability
Posted by: DaveB on Apr 8, 2006 7:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The macro problem is that our (now global) culture has been involved in a paradigm of economic growth for the last several centuries. Of the many causes contributing to this, I will highlight the harvesting of energy from coal and oil.

In the 21st century, we are looking at a world population of 6 billion, likely to rise to 9 billion by mid century. Key resources like oil, water, farmland, forests, ocean fisheries are already strained at present population levels. Environmental impacts like global warming, water pollution, desertification, and loss of topsoil are accelerating.

The point of all this is not to induce panic and despair. But we must realize that economic growth, as the term has traditionally been understood, is no longer an appropriate policy goal. The challenge is to find ways to gradually shrink the economy (in terms of aggregate material consumption) while retaining our most essential human values.

An ethic of cooperation and mututal aid will help facilitate the transition that confronts us. By contrast, the habit of competition and pursuit of self-interest at the expense of others will only make our problems worse.

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» RE: Growth and sustainability Posted by: schmitta1573
» RE: Growth and sustainability Posted by: change-agent-denver
» RE: Is this debt really ours? Posted by: beausoleil
The 'greatest generation' has prepared us well!
Posted by: LeonDion on Apr 8, 2006 8:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nothing can be done about the debt of the United States. The crash is coming.

I remember a few years ago, talking to an older lady about the debt. I gave an estimate of each American's share of the debt, and asked her whether she had any plans for repaying her share. Do you know what her reply was?

"I'll leave that for my grandchildren to figure out."

What a responsible and compassionate statement! I think it is so characteristic of the obedient and compliant nature of her generation, and the baby boomers they nurtured.

After the crash, I'm sure that the kids will have a few ideas of what to do with all that Grandmother has saved up! Now that they've been taught by the example given by the 'greatest generation', and the boomers, too! Here's one idea:

BOILED GRANDMOTHER WITH GREENS

1 tablespoon parsley
1/2 teaspoon salt
1 cup dandelion greens, washed
1 salted and preserved thigh of Grandmother

Combine all ingredients, except dandelion greens, in a large pot, and boil until Grandmother is as gray on the inside as she is on the outside. Add greens. Remove from heat, and allow to sit for one minute before serving, (should hunger pangs permit).

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» Vote? Posted by: LeonDion
» RE: Vote? Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Vote? Posted by: VisionQuest
Debt to Korps thats who
Posted by: Jeffersonista on Apr 8, 2006 8:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The whole picture is this, everyone, citizens and countrys "owe" to the debtors' who just happend to be the Korps who have buy the legislation and rulers. So on thier books our "debt" is thier profit. Just a gradual progression to a final state where an elite live in luxury while the rest starve in prisions called citys and states.

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A SMALL WORLD
Posted by: Roverton on Apr 8, 2006 8:30 AM   
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We're getting globalized here, kids.

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State of Shock
Posted by: Roverton on Apr 8, 2006 8:34 AM   
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We're in a walking, shopping, typing stse of shock. We have not yet just looked at what we'll be dealing with. We've been lulled.

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ReformerRay
Posted by: ReformerRay on Apr 8, 2006 8:43 AM   
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I am discouraged. All the comments are written by people who share the belief that this country is heading for a collapse, but only one - mine - has a concrete suggestion about what should be done about it. And no one commented on my suggestion.

Why the sense of inevitability? Why the unwillingness to discuss and speculate about what could be done?

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» RE: eformerRay Posted by: DaveB
» RE: eformerRay Posted by: equidave
» RE: eformerRay Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: eformerRay Posted by: eringhorm
Who's debt is it really?
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Apr 8, 2006 8:44 AM   
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This great debt we speak of is something that's been with us since the Nixon years. Why? Simple, rich, fools that put into power their little 'go to guys' made this mess. The debt that's being brandided about is because of them. The rich will be the ones to suffer the most,as they should,the greedy little scumsuckers.
Sure the middle class and the poor will be saddled with this debt as will all their Children and Great Grand Children.
There's one big difference between the rich and the rest of us.
The rest of us know how to band together to survive. We've been doing it for centuries! Because the wealthy have always screwed things up for everyone else.
I say it's time for the fools that created this mess to pay for the cleanup! Dump the cronies out of office,tax the living shit out of the wealthy poeple and businesses. Greed is a social disease and tax is the cure.
Financial Institutions need to clean up too. They've been
'stealing' our money since the Great Depression of the 20's and 30's.
We need to zero out the debts of all citizens. Convert the theft of our money by compound intrest rates into a flat fee one time intrest rate. Your banker might not have a fancy office to do business out of,but you'll pay off your loans faster.
Due to total incompitance,the Govt should file a Chapt. 11.
Remove all those 'debt spenders' from office. Since the election process is so corrupted,stop giving those bendbrains money. All of it,campaign money,paychecks, the whole shot.
You don't repay thieves by giving them more money to help
them figure out more ways to steal it from you.
Most of the Alternet readers were very young when America had to deal with 20% intrest rates,stale food commodities and even lower paying jobs. I'll go on record now as saying if this current trend does'nt change and the People allow the wool to stay pulled over their eyes,there will be intrest rates greater than 20%. There will be no commodities,stale or otherwise. There will be no raise in minimum wages. There will be no housing programs. While
the rich will get tax breaks,emmissions consessions for their
industries and a ton of taxpayer bailouts. The rich and their Govt cronies think that money and the People are just a numbers game for their benefit. They need some new ones.
There are 250,000,000+ souls in this Country. 1% run everything. Or in a different way,2.5 million greedy egotistical
self-agrandizing jerks, are trying to tell 247.5 million how to live,where to work,what to wear,what to drive and how much
you can be sucked dry for in order to preserve their lifestyle.
I do believe it was Motley Crue that said it best;
EAT THE RICH

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The same government that passes bankruptcy "reform" restrictions against
Posted by: SDres11 on Apr 8, 2006 9:57 AM   
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actual hardworking Americans who may even be forced into inevitable bankruptcies due to rising costs in everything that our FUCKED up government has no intention of addressing sure has the FUCKING NERVE to raise its FUCKING debt ceiling. Too bad the working class can't do the same !

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Hello! we must be going!
Posted by: frankly1 on Apr 8, 2006 10:28 AM   
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Shuffle the deck chairs on the Titanic, fiddle while Rome burns, stick your head in the sand and then wise up and kiss all our asses goodbye! It's all over bar the mass extinction. The stupid greedy wealthy installed themselves a sociopathic president to accelerate the flow of money from the poor and destroy the middle class. Maybee they think they can take all the money they have stolen and pay us to build bio-domes over thier gated communities and golf courses. Hey! why not? The average American is so wiilfully stupid they will believe tax cuts for the mega rich is good for them!
Look at some of the other things Americans wiil believe;
The rapture, we live in a democracy, there is war on terror, Baseball is a "sport". Anything said on Fox News and that they have constitutional "rights".
We can all yammer on about national debts, petro-dollars, social programs and trying to change the system but if you take a hard look at the facts and the evidence the conclusion has to be that the time to act has long since past. The brief window of climate opportunity that allowed us to thrive is quickly closing and we closed it!
We may all get our chance to rage at the storm as it decends but more likely it will be sobbing and wimpering. Another sad thing is that we wiil take most of the planets other living thigs with us.

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» RE: Hello! we must be going! Posted by: mwildfire
» RE: Hello! we must be going! Posted by: johste41762
Hello, Argentina
Posted by: bringbackthe70s on Apr 8, 2006 10:33 AM   
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As shown most recently by the Argentinian experience, the outstanding feature of a debt crisis is that while it may be decades in the making, its effects, when they come, come suddenly. Like a run on a bank, a loss of confidence is hugely self-reinforcing. Like Argentina, we will probably be riding high (on borrowed fuel) right up to the day before the crash. But look at the bright side - with China, Japan and others calling the shots, maybe they will finally force the US into compliance on issues like global warming, as a condition of their continued largess.

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» RE: Hello, Argentina Posted by: anothername
Not necessarily a bad thing
Posted by: gonzoskismet on Apr 8, 2006 12:05 PM   
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I mean, look at it like this, folks. We've shopped till we dropped while our government and businesses like Wal-Mart and
Microsoft have turned other countries into economic giants. Hell, we helped them do it!
There's an old joke that describes the average Americans mentality on this perfectly. 'If your neighbor loses his/her job,
it's a recession. If you lose YOUR job, it's a depression.'
So, while Mom and Pop lie in unmarked graves on the Kansas
plains, everybody went shopping at Wal-Mart and forgot that they ever existed. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Let it all fall apart. We deserve it.

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» Please remember Posted by: johste41762
You can't eat dollars or gold
Posted by: beausoleil on Apr 8, 2006 2:00 PM   
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All you people out there, like me, working very hard and still drowning in high medical, food, shelter and energy bills, try this: Plant a garden now, learn to raise small farm animals in your yard, learn to make biodiesel and construct your own dwelling place out of abundant local materials, retrofit your house to need less energy, or no purchased energy at all, if possible. It'll all boil down to being able to produce what you need, either by yourself or more likely in small informal trading communities. We may not have time to save, change or work within this system that is rottten and repressive to the core. Use your 'smarts' now to make sure that you produce your own basic necessities once the American Dream vanishes like the chimera that it is. Once it does come down, it'll boil down to having something to eat, and that applies to rich and poor. Monoculture and genetic engineering create the high probability of a world-wide famine. If you have uncontaminated food, you might find yourself trading it for gold. The very people who have made a fortune destroying our economy are surely the ones dumping the dollar and buying gold right now, thinking that they'll leave us little people to deal with inflation and high interest rates. But remember what Indians always told their Spanish and English captives, as they poured molten gold down their throats, 'You can't eat gold'. If you don't need dollars, then you won't be affected by it's inevitable collapse. The collapse of the dollar should not be resisted, it should be embraced. If all you have is debt, it is to your advantage to see the system crumble. If the entire nation finds itself in a situation where it simply cannot pay it's debts, what? Chase Bank doesn't want millions of cheaply built houses and cars to maintain and sell, believe me. For with the dollar's collapse, along goes the rest of the greedy, selfish, corrupt system that created such a thing as paper currency that is not backed by real gold or silver, but simply by the power of a goverment to force it's citizens to pay taxes.

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» You're right Posted by: LeonDion
Good Article, but not quite accurate
Posted by: ctzcrank on Apr 8, 2006 3:00 PM   
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It's about time columnists took on this problem, but it's important to be accurate:

First of all, the claim that the total debt equals $27,000 per person is derived from dividing the debt by the current estimate of the country population. This is fine except it's only taxpayers who are responsible for redeeming the debt, not children and the retired, at least not yet. And, because there are less than 140 million income taxpayers in this country, the responsibility for the debt amounts to more than twice what you are estimating or more than $54,000 each taxpayer.

Secondly, the foreign countries that have been loaning us money are already balking at U.S. treasuries. It's not something that might happen, it is happening. All anyone has to do to notice this is to follow the results of the Bureau of Public Debt's "auctions." In 1995 only about 50 percent of the treasuries "tendered" were "accepted." This year, it has dropped to about 30 percent despite increasing interest rates.

Thirdly, there's no mention of the completely fraudulent portion of the national debt where almost $3.5 trillion is composed of bogus bonds in equally bogus trust funds that compose the entire "Intragovernmental Holdings" side of the debt. Ninety-two percent of this fraudulent side represents money "borrowed" from entitlements like Social Security which, by itself, now accounts for almost 23 percent of the total debt and is there only under the insane idea that the same money can both be spent and saved. It's nothing but a way to double tax citizens and could be eliminated tomorrow without harm to anyone but the government, the con artists.

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» RE: Good Article, but not quite accurate Posted by: thoughtcriminal
Bill Hicks said:
Posted by: rollo on Apr 8, 2006 5:17 PM   
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"You wanna wipe out the deficit? Legalize marijuana--the biggest cash crop in America--and tax it."

No pun intended, but I'm not holding my breath.

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» You never know Posted by: Monde
YAWN....
Posted by: albiegf13 on Apr 8, 2006 8:15 PM   
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It's all so interesting.... We should hire someone to do something about all this stuff.....

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» RE: YAWN.... Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: YAWN.... Posted by: albiegf13
The frightening thing: he doesn't care...
Posted by: Monde on Apr 8, 2006 8:29 PM   
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...about the future, at all, if we assume Bush's Dominionist beliefs are real to him and not just something he blathers to get the Dominionist (Christian Wrong's) vote...he'll ramp up the debt to infinity because, well, um, the End o' the World'll kind of make it all a non-issue that the "Left Behind" can deal with.

Sometimes his behaviour seems merely irresponsible, and sometimes it seems truly, categorically insane. Whether that matters an iota is another question entirely. What does matter is every indication is that he plans to not leave office. The Republicans are awfully quiet and even the Democrats don't seem to be seriously working on finding a viable '08 candidate. Do they know something we do not?

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The lack of response has a reason
Posted by: Monde on Apr 8, 2006 9:08 PM   
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- a large fraction of the populace are hoping for Doomsday in one flavour or another, because it allows for them to hope to build their (for example) Decentralized Socialist Utopia or their Marauding Biker Khanate, just as some of the fundies are hoping that it will bring about the Kingdom of Jesus ruling over the simple farmers, and some of the corporatists hope for IMF-style reorganization.

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End of money . .
Posted by: BsAs light on Apr 8, 2006 10:00 PM   
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