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Pedophiles in Our Midst

By Christy Hardin Smith, Firedoglake. Posted April 6, 2006.


Why is our government doing background checks on activists but not on its own staff?
doyle
Brian J. Doyle

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Take a good long look at Brian Doyle, deputy press secretary for the Department of Homeland Security/today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-04-05T032211Z_01_N04209957_RTRUKOC_0_US-CRIME-DOYLE.xml&archived=False>. Alleged pedophile.

He could be your neighbor, your babysitter, your youth minister, your grocery check-out guy, your best friend's husband. He could be anyone you know. Not exactly a big, flashing sign that says "alleged pedophile" around this guy's neck, is there?

The fact that a Bush administration Department of Homeland Security official was arrested yesterday for attempting to solicit sex from a 14-year-old girl over the internet is a shock for some people. But it shouldn't be.

The fact that this arrest also happened on the day that Justin Berry was testifying about his abuse at the hands of internet sexual predators before Congress makes this all the more horrid, in my mind -- the juxtaposition between Brian Doyle and Justin Berry is just painful when you read the news articles side by side. Taylor Marsh has a fantastic article about this -- it's a tough read but a necessary one to understand the mindset behind this sort of behavior.

Warning: I'm going into a bit of detail below, and I didn't want it to come as a shock for anyone. Know what you face and face it head on.

I've prosecuted a number of pedophiles in my time, as well as participated in ongoing probation supervision for already convicted sexual predators, and there is one thing about which I am absolutely certain: You can never cure a pedophile. You can work with them, you can do aggressive therapy to help them control urges, you can do any number of things that require them to limit contact with children and porn, but there is no cure.

Most pedophiles that I've had to deal with in my legal career were molested themselves as children. A lot of them grew up in families where they were routinely molested by a parent or step-parent, and they grew up thinking this sort of behavior is normal. Not every person who is sexually molested becomes a pedophile, and I wish I knew where that switch gets flipped for some people and not others.

But ultimately it is all about power or the thrill of the hunt, or both, depending on the pedophile. Controlling your victim becomes everything. And almost every pedophile that I've ever had the misfortune of supervising or prosecuting had a long, long history of being a sexual predator. Most pedophiles don't just molest one child (as if that weren't bad enough). I attended a prosecutor's seminar on sexual predators when I was a practicing attorney and was told that the average pedophile has hundreds (yes, hundreds) of victims over a lifetime.

Brian Doyle was sloppy, which means on some level he wanted to get caught. He allegedly informed the undercover cop posing as a 14-year-old that he worked for the Department of Homeland Security. He gave her his cell phone number, a phone issued by the DHS. He was chatting online with the undercover officer at his home in Maryland when officers arrived to arrest him.

Here's what's in store for Mr. Doyle: His computer will have been seized by those police officers. They will comb through the hard drive of that computer for every single chat he has had with a child. They will track down as many of those children as possible to determine whether or not they have had sexual relations with him. They will comb through the hard drive for any child pornography that may exist thereon, and he faces federal criminal charges if there is any (and there likely is, considering that's a fairly usual find in this type of case). There is a criminal count for each picture. There are definitely Florida state charges, since it was a Florida state investigation that caught Mr. Doyle.

The Washington Post reports:

Brian J. Doyle, 55, was arrested at his Silver Spring home at 7:45 p.m. and charged with seven counts of using a computer to seduce a child and 16 counts of transmitting harmful materials to a minor, according to a sheriff's office statement.
Doyle was online at the time awaiting what he thought was a nude image of a girl who had lymphoma, Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said in an interview with Fox News' "On the Record With Greta Van Susteren." "We wanted to make sure he was using that computer and talking to detectives at the time of the arrest," Judd said.
According to the sheriff's office, Doyle initiated a sexually explicit conversation with the detective on March 12 in response to an internet profile of a 14-year-old girl.
Doyle allegedly sent pornographic movie clips, nonpornographic photos of himself and instant messages from his AOL account, the police statement said. The sheriff's office alleged that Doyle "on many occasions" instructed the undercover detective to perform a sexual act while thinking of him and described explicit acts he wished to perform.
I know you are sitting there at your computer thinking "ewwww," and you are right to do so. But you have to face the fact that this sort of thing goes on every day, all over this country before you understand the need to be vigilant in protecting your own children from these sorts of predators. These are seasoned cops, though, who knew to catch him online while they did the arrest, so they had a contemporaneous record and could verify immediately that his prints were on the keyboard from the chatting, giving him no loophole argument for getting around the charges.

If there is child pornography on his computer, the authorities will try to trace back every single photograph to its origins to determine who took them, who was involved in the production, the distribution, the planning. Every single aspect of this will be investigated as fully as it can be, to the extent that you can trace this sort of thing back.

And let me tell you, be grateful if you have never had to view child pornography in either photo or video form. I still have nightmares sometimes about cases that I worked as a prosecutor, worrying about the children that we could never identify. It is tough, gritty, gut-wrenching work. And thank God for the police officers and FBI agents who do it.

But you can't just depend on police officers to take care of all of this. One of the biggest cases our local police were ever able to crack open came as a result of a tip from a food delivery service fellow who thought it was weird that an old guy, who lived all by himself, bought multiple boxes of popsicles all the time and always had a slew of kids from his impoverished neighborhood hanging out at his house. Guess who was using all those popsicles to lure and groom local neighborhood kids for years?

We do things backwards in this nation, and how we deal with pedophiles is one of them. A sexual predator has the potential to crush the lives of hundreds of victims over a lifetime. A child's life is changed in the instant that he or she is molested, and the lives of every person around them for the rest of their lives are changed as well. Studies have consistently shown that one in every four children in this country will be sexually molested -- one in four -- either by a stranger or, more commonly, by a family member or family friend.

The next time your kids have friends over to your house, just think about that one in four number for a minute and realize its implications. We have to be smarter and do better with this sort of crime because it ripples outward on so many, horrible levels over the lifetime of the survivor.

If your child begins to act furtive, secretive, hide their online activity from you, spend an inordinate amount of time IM-ing and trying to hide it, no longer spending time with other kids, disappearing from the house at odd hours, shying away from your hugs or any touch, gets very jumpy, anything along those unusual lines, you should try to keep a close eye on her or him. (Sure, teenagers especially, can be a bit jumpy behaviorally, but there you are.) Check your caller ID -- if there are repeat calls from a particular number, out of state or locally, that you don't recognize, ask about it.

One of the biggest questions in my mind was, how was this happening repeatedly with a Department of Homeland Security official who was using his work cell phone to perpetrate this? The Post had this as well:
Another Homeland Security official -- Frank Figueroa, special agent in charge of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Tampa -- faces trial this week on charges of exposing himself to a teenage girl last year at a mall. Figueroa, who has been suspended, pleaded not guilty.
What in the hell is going on at the Department of Homeland Security? These are the people who are supposed to be protecting us, right? Instead, it looks like we have to protect our children from them. Background check, anyone?

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Christy Hardin Smith blogs daily at the FireDogLake blog.

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Look at his little smirk, gives it all away.
Posted by: E-from-PHIOM on Apr 6, 2006 2:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Being a logophile I must knit pick and point out that technically Doyle is an ephebophile not a Pedophile, because the "child" is 14. An ephebophile is an adult that is sexually attracted to pubescent children as opposed to pedophile which is an adult sexually attracted to PRE-pubescent children.

That being said...This guy is SICK and should be locked up. Does he have a family? I feel so sorry for them. This is just more evidence that institutions that foster sexual repression (a la the Catholic church and the abstinence only Republican party) also seem to breed an excessive number of sexual deviants.

From the info in this article Doyle has never been caught before and so a background check would have been useless. Hopefully this is his first and last offence.

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interesting
Posted by: rsaxto on Apr 6, 2006 3:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isn't it interesting that some of the worst perverts are employed by the Cheney/Bush regime? IMPEACH ALL OF THE CHENEY/BUSH PERVERTS!

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How else
Posted by: Roverton on Apr 6, 2006 4:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gee, any OTHER job requirements to work for this Admin?

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» RE: How else Posted by: Mary Eman
Homeland Security does not equal Integrity
Posted by: anothername on Apr 6, 2006 4:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article made me think of an episode from this season's "24" television show. The premise was that an elite Counter Terrorism Unit was compromised by a chain of events, but I kept laughing at the all too real lack of awareness that the script used to build drama.

While the political appointee heading the unit had valid personal reasons for not reporting his stolen ID card, the guard at headquarters should not have let the unit head back into the building without the card. Then, when an anomoly was noticed, a technician was sent to check it out - again, by itself not terribly bad or unexpected, but probably not the best procedure. However, once the nerve gas was released, nobody knew what to do! Where were the biochemical sensors placed? (I can't remember if the show included them, but where they placed strategically for airflow patterns?) Why didn't people know that the outer hallways would be filled with the gas first? Why did everyone have to gather around the computer to find the secure rooms?

I am cynical and find it easy to believe that the DHS would accept someone with a sex crime in the background check. However, I also have to keep reminding myself that the DHS is not the CIA. Much of the Department of Homeland Security is basic governmental operations of Customs and natural disaster management.

But as the author's intent of the essay seemed to be more about using the recent arrest to talk about the frequency of child-related sex crimes, I don't know if security at the DHS is much of an issue here.

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Real Nazis
Posted by: Citizendeane on Apr 6, 2006 5:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wake-up folks! These extremist republicans who are running the government are not interested in America for its people. They are hypocrites, liars , authoritarians, criminal scum, racists, extreme nationalists, just like the Nazi Party in Germany and the Fascist Party in Italy. We see them subverting all branches of the government. They believe they are above the law and morality and that they should rule the world for profit and glory, mostly for rich white Americans. Call them what you will, this is the reality. If Americans do not take back government from them, there will be a world conflagration just as in WWII. Most of the world has come to hate America just as it came to hate the Nazis and the Fascists. Sooner or later, they will do something about it, just as in the past.

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» RE: eal Nazis Posted by: tyrannyforyou
» RE: eal Nazis Posted by: Colton_Alexander
What is the tipping point?
Posted by: douglashoyt on Apr 6, 2006 5:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The DHS fails to discover "higher ups" who have a thing for children, yet each and every time I apply for a loan at a bank, my information goes to the DHS for review.

Truly, amoral criminals are in charge of this government.

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Internet exposed the darkside of human being
Posted by: Brucewxx on Apr 6, 2006 5:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It really has nothing to do with if he works for DHS or CIA or someone else as it revealed that the darkside of a person would be much more developed if he thinks no one is watching. Internet gives a lot of people that opportunity to watch porn, to have a affair, or do something he or she normally won't do in public. I believe every person has two sides inside, one is good and the other bad. The self control is the reason most of people are good, with the control being fear of being caught, fear of the God, the fear of being shamed, etc. That is why people's behavior in a chaotic situation such as a war are much different from that in a peace time.

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stop the insantiy
Posted by: Colton_Alexander on Apr 6, 2006 5:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fact that needs to be faced, Ms. Smith and readers, is how twisted the entire situation is right now in America regarding the issue of child sexuality. Let me first state that no child should be abused in any manner—I’m talking about real abuse! That said, let me also state the fact that what is being termed “pedophilia” and “sexual predators” IS a hysteria and is, as can be seen by the Doyle story, nothing short of a witch hunt. And I will say a witch hunt on the level that the country has not seen since McCarthyism and since the lynching days.

I myself am what you all are attacking here, what you call a “pedophile” – no I don’t use that term, and no I’ve never had sexual relations with a minor – we educated, uppity “perverts” are currently using the value neutral term MAA (minor attracted adult). But what I read above in the blog post and the comments that follow make sick to my stomach. MAAs have existed forever; not only that, we have contributed meaningfully to society and our sexual and emotional relations with children have benefited their lives tremendously. But these days, in a world where liberals and conservatives alike are looking for scapegoats, it is amazing how you all rally to the call of “kill the pedophile!”—even if said pedophile has committed no crime at all, as is evident in the Doyle case. Indeed, what is more perverted, Doyle or the cops who pretend to be teen girls and boys online? Such bazaar nonsense calls for a Swiftian proposal to take the police and put them into therapy as sexually abused children, if we insist on insisting a crime was committed….

But I digress… Ms. Smith, why should I have to cure myself when nothing at all is wrong with me? Why, all of a sudden, is my sexual orientation enough to have people call death threats against me? Don’t you know that the father of Western philosophy, Socrates, would be arrested for life under your definition of a criminal, not to mention William Shakespeare? Hysteria is currently against “pedophiles”, but history is with us! What harms children is not the romantic relationship with an adult, what harms children are zealous prosecutors, idiotic social workers, angry parents, conniving cops, and the whole litany of villains society sends after children and their adult lovers when such relations are revealed.

I guess I could argue all day and throw all my degrees at you, and you’d still hear nothing because your fury is akin to the Nazi reaction to Jews in Hitler’s Germany. The hate for Minor Attracted Adults is so keen in America that one state is even in the process of approving death penalties for us, or the hundreds of similar Brown Shirt tactics used to destroy the life of Brian Doyle.

When will the madness stop?

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» RE: stop the insantiy Posted by: bgeerdes
» RE: stop the insantiy Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: stop the insantiy Posted by: gargirl
» RE: stop the insantiy Posted by: Mutternich
» RE: stop the insantiy Posted by: AlienSlave
» RE: stop the insantiy Posted by: Darcy
» Don't bother replying Posted by: Paul D
» RE: Don't bother replying Posted by: gargirl
» RE: stop the insantiy Posted by: tyrannyforyou
» RE: What a load of crap Posted by: ccbite
» RE: stop the insantiy Posted by: Charaud
» RE: stop the insantiy Posted by: Colton_Alexander
Very good site that gets it done
Posted by: AlienSlave on Apr 6, 2006 5:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If by some chance you find your self with a bit of infromation hand it in every little bit helps to put the puzzle together. http://www.antichildporn.org/

AlienSlave

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Any stick will serve to beat a dog
Posted by: AdamSelene40 on Apr 6, 2006 7:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and the myth of the Internet Predator Pervert is so dear to the hearts of law enforcement officials ... who needs much in the way of truth

Yet:

A man who is obsessed with 12 year old girls who look like 12 year old girls is pathological.

A man who is sexually attracted to 14 year olds is simply inappropriately heterosexual. Two hundred years ago, he'd marry her. Today, she's out of bounds. The best way to control the fantasy is to acknowledge the fantasy. "It's there, it's not allowed -- move on."

The thing we do not like to keep too foremost in our minds is that 'child molesters' are not, generally speaking, "strangers" -- they are custodians.
"Mamma's boyfriends" are the most likey perpritrators ... followed by foster fathers, blood relatives and trusted family friends ...
biological fathers are less likely to offend (though many are tempted) ... ... the lurker by the schoolyard types are simply the easiest to CONVICT.

Then there's the internet trolls. If a policeman is willing to blurr the lines between entrapment and agressive enforcement these guys are sitting ducks -- and rather pathetic. Sometimes there is 'intent' ... but generally, all cyber interactions take place in this weird semi-reality where 'ghosts talk to ghosts" and "everything is virtual."

The first cyber stalker I remember making headlines was a gay man who fell into a "Boy seeking Daddy" trap set by a Boston journalist. When Daddy showed up at the coffee house, the police and the camera crew were waiting. Only problem: "boy" and "daddy" COULD describe a pedophile fantasy ... more often, however, the terms are used by and about adult men to describe a particular kind of relationship.

That guy 'escaped justice.' Since then laws and procedures have been developed to assure more convictions and better plea bargains. It's easy, safe, cost-effective law enforcement that really pleases the voters.

For every cyber stalker who poses a physical threat there's probably a hundred naive fantasists who never noticed when they crossed the line from 'harmless' to 'potentially threatening.'

It sure kills the buzz to keep lacing hotchat with 'but you and I will never meet' and 'I know this is only a fantasy' disclaimers ... and I'm not sure that disclaimers are any defense against zealous law enforcers

So as much as I enjoy hearing about a Republican Apparatchik getting his tits in the wringer ... and as much as I know that the 'undecideds' will be far more incensed by possible, potential, pedophelia than by ... oh, WAR ON A PRETEXT -- my joy on this particular tit-wringing is less that it might have been.

(And, oh yeah, it did take our minds off Tom Delay and colleagues for a moment, didn't it.)

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Sex trumps everything
Posted by: RichardT on Apr 6, 2006 7:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is comforting to know that within the Bush administration at least there is one crime that you can commit that will have consequences, namely a sex related crime.

This is something, although I wish that the administration would also focus on other criminal acts, such as making up a phony case for war in Iraq, for example. Did I mention illegal wiretapping?

While I totally agree that Brian Doyle should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, it seems to me that his immediate suspension without pay illustrates the administration’s obsession with sex, and their unrelenting focus on abstinence, contraceptives, gay marriage, pornography, and so on.

Should not some other administration officials, the list too long to include here, not also be immediately suspended?

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» RE: Sex trumps everything Posted by: sln70
Yes, child molestation probably does, at least some, emotional injury to children
Posted by: Sojourner on Apr 6, 2006 7:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have nothing to judge by except my personal contacts who have shared their childhood sexual experiences with me. None involve aggregious abuse. Overall, I see no clear relationship between molestation and unsuccessful adult sexual maturation; it seems to depend on the individual.

In the cases where the childhood experience continues to disturb the adult, my judgment is that it is often because no adult partner can achieve, or readily achieve, the same level of excitement had as a child. That said, it is also my experience that almost everyone I have ever met, and myself included, can benefit from love counseling in the form of therapy.

Yet therapy is no more certain of healing than is the vindictive application of law. That's the devil's bargain we must learn to live with. Helping is the hardest of life's possibilities. When it happens, it's almost a miracle.

Many years back, boarding a plane, I noticed an attractive young teenage female. What I noticed was that she had no makeup, and yet her appearance was what is considered the standard for the well-groomed adult female. Adult women paint their faces to look like 12-year olds.

To the left of my screen as I write this is a photo of an adult woman in an ad for a video clip. Her lipstick, rouge, and pancake makeup mimic the young girl's appearance. So I ask. Is it any wonder we are nuts, when our heads are messed with constantly by the dominant culture of fashion?

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» RE: Hi, Sojourner! Posted by: Shehova
» RE: Hi, Sojourner! Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Hi, Sojourner! Posted by: Colton_Alexander
Pedophilia & Hate
Posted by: supercrisp on Apr 6, 2006 8:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I follow this issue because I my exwife was horribly sexually abused. I live in Iowa, and people here, politicians on the right mostly, have managed to get laws passed such that pedophiles are unable to live in a town at all because they would be within x number of feet or MILES of a school. These laws have been ruled unconstitutional, been brought back, gone away again--I get confused, but there’s a big torment about it here.

The thing I get from it is this: a lot of people don’t care if a pedophile is run out of town. A lot of people think a pedophile is a monster not a human.

I did hear recently a researcher for the research hospital here say that the stats about high recidivism rates are bogus and are promulgated by evangelicals mostly and by politicos feeding on fear. She said recidivism rates are far lower. I won’t give numbers because I don’t remember them.

At any rate, I don’t feel compelled to look them up because I can accept that pedophiles have done something wrong and need to be treated to prevent them from harming more children. But I don’t see them as monsters. I don’t think they need to be run out of town or raped as one poster below suggests.

However, if you find yourself thinking that pedophiles are monsters rather than people, it might be a good thing if you checked out the truth you use to support your demonizations. This doesn’t mean you have to accept any self-serving B.S. about how pedophilia is good for the kids.

But I will say this. I was a victim of child abuse, physical and verbal, a lot of it, but no sexual abuse. The trauma from this can make being “normal” performing “normally,” as expected, very hard. Life is harder for my ex, or about the same, depending on how you look at it. (Loud noises freak me out, cussing me freaks me out; my ex goes bonkers when she sees a knife or pistol. So I have more trouble; hers is more severe.) At any rate the hardest thing for people like us is that others tried very, very hard to make us into something other than humans.

So, though this guy is a very sick man, he’s still a human to me. I grant him that. So I can be human too. (I don’t think my ex would be able to grant him that, and I think she’s allowed that because of the trauma, but it’s not right, just how she has to deal with what happened to her.)

If you really, really care about pedophilia, maybe you can do something about pedophilia instead of using it as a stick to beat this (admittedly crappy) administration with.

Making monsters doesn’t help lessen pedophilia, or even prevent it. After all, pedophiles don’t look like monsters to their victims. If a kid’s looking for a monster, he might not see the pedophile. If kids are told to be scared of all adults, it gets harder for them to seek an adult for counsel, for safety. I dunno. I just think the world needs less monsters.

It makes me sick to see the threats of violence here. And makes me sick to see the triumphalism and joy over finding a sick man in the administration. See the wickdness in your own hearts.

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» RE: Pedophilia & Hate Posted by: karyse
» Thank you for your posting Posted by: Brucewxx
This guy is only the "tip" of the iceberg in Pedophiles in this WH!
Posted by: Prophit on Apr 6, 2006 8:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is the deeper story. Read all these links and you will understand how prevelant this is and why he wasn't worried about using his homeland security cell phone. Remember, it took the State of Florida to do something about this. It wasn't the feds.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Media/

021805Madsen/021805madsen.html


http://www.newyorker.com/printables/

talk/051107ta_talk_collins


http://sandiego.indymedia.org/

en/2003/03/4516.shtml


http://sf.indymedia.org/news/

2003/02/1570946.php


http://www.rense.com/general61

/appallingconspiracyof.htm


http://www.rense.com/general57/newbook.htm


http://www.onlinejournal.com/Media/

021805Madsen/021805madsen.html


Libby's sex writings - pathetic


http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger

/5311/1331/400/231_saudi.jpg


Appalling Conspiracy Of Silence Video Online


http://www.rense.com/general61/

appallingconspiracyof.htm


From Thrasher

http://www.media-underground.net

The Franklin Coverup Scandal


http://www.thelawparty.org/

FranklinCoverup/franklin.htm


Photocopy of the Washington Times front page


http://www.thelawparty.org/

FranklinCoverup/wtpage1small.gif


http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=1497

Quote from Hersh:
"He said that after he broke Abu Ghraib people are coming out of the woodwork to tell him this stuff. He said he had seen all the Abu Ghraib pictures. He said, 'You haven't begun to see evil...' then trailed off. He said, 'horrible things done to children of women prisoners, as the cameras run.' He looked frightened…."


http://rediceblog.blogspot.com/2005/

11/white-house-pedophile-ring-ordered.html


-This link above exposes the Sexual torture of Iraqi's videos sent to white house.

These below cover the "sexual" torture of children in Iraq by the US.

http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=1662

"Among these stories, none is potentially more devastating than the one that seems to combine those missing "children's prisons" and those never-to-be-reconstituted "rape rooms." We know that New Yorker reporter Seymour Hersh is on the trail of the story of the rape and sodomizing of young, imprisoned Iraqis, possibly by Americans, or at least viewed by and filmed by Americans, in Abu Ghraib and that he plans to write it up sooner or later. ("The worst is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking…") In the meantime, Neil MacKay of the Glasgow Morning Herald in an investigation (Iraq's Child Prisoners) based on UNICEF documents writes:


"It's not certain exactly how many children are being held by coalition forces in Iraq, but a Sunday Herald investigation suggests there are up to 107. Their names are not known, nor is where they are being kept, how long they will be held or what has happened to them during their detention."

In other words, we hold not only "ghost detainees" in our global gulag, but "ghost children" in our Iraqi detention system. He reports:

SEE NEXT POST FOR CONTINUATION - WORTH READING

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domination
Posted by: demiurge on Apr 6, 2006 8:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sadly, there is a correlation between a sexual predator who wants to dominate his victims and an administration that wants to dominate everyone, that defends torture.

Frankly, I'm surprised this wasn't Cheney.

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» RE: domination Posted by: Envi
I am not surprised
Posted by: Ellie1 on Apr 6, 2006 2:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is also a White House that gave press credentials to a male hooker. And they claim to be so damn religious. What hypocrits-and how stupid so many of the American public are. You can blame the media, but it is YOUR responsibility to research your candidates, and if you don't, you don't deserve democracy, you criminal repukes.

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Colton, you are sick and delusional
Posted by: Ellie1 on Apr 6, 2006 2:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How dare you, you pervert. NO child can agree to sex with a pervert like you. You are USING and ABUSING a minor, and you cannot make excuses for it. You need therapy, or to be locked up. You are taking advantage of minors, who cannot kick you in the balls like you deserve.

Every murderer or child abuser (like Colton) was also abused as a child. No good has EVER come from early sexual activity, especially when it is at the hands of a so-called responsible adult. Colton, you do not know what harm you have caused. You are thinking only of yourself, and your life style is pathetic. YOU ARE A MONSTER. LIVE WITH IT.

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Terminology mix-up
Posted by: YogiBear on Apr 6, 2006 3:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most pedophiles don't just molest one child (as if that weren't bad enough).

Actually, most pedophiles don't molest anyone. The term people are looking for is "child sex offender."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophile#Extent_of_occurrence

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Mr.
Posted by: cognut2 on Apr 6, 2006 3:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
RE: Stop This Insanity

I found the replies to this argument very informative. NOT A SINGLE PERSON SEEMS TO HAVE READ YOUR STATEMENT: "I personally have never had sex with a minor"!
You were declared guilty without a trial! When Michael Jackson was on trial--I defended him on the grounds of insanity. I have never known any other Black man who went to such excessive lengths to appear White! Instead of being tried, he should have been under the care of a psychiatrist.
Also--if a man is charged with pedophila (or MMA)--he is guilty before being tried. Look at the "weighted" words used to describe what he may or may not have done: "predator" "molesting"-- what may have been gentle play is termed "abuse" -- and while the child may have totally enjoyed the "adult games" --we nevertheless call the child "a victim". I have personally known people who played adult games with an adult, when they were children--and there was no "trauma" at all.
I think of my own case. I was a 17-year-old boy when a man I worked with took me out to lunch; then we walked to his car, parked in a parking lot. Inside, he hugged me and kissed me. It scared the s..t out of me! But THIS was not the trauma; the trauma came when my mother knew something was wrong. She immediately called her older brother (my father had died), and he called the man's supervisor and got him fired.
THIS was the trauma! I felt guilty as hell that the man was being punished. His gesture had not harmed me. It was, after all, a gesture of affection! I was not "abused"! And I was terribly embarrassed that everyone in the office knew about it! Several men approached me with, "Are you the boy..."! And that somehow made me feel all the more guilty. I suspect that quite often the trauma is caused not by the sexual act itself--which may have been exciting and enjoyable, but by the outrage and hatred of those adults who discovered what had taken place.
I am not defending rape or physical/mental abuse. But, I do believe that not all cases are to judged by the same unsympathetic standard.

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» RE: Mr. Posted by: Colton_Alexander
» Your both sick!!!!! Posted by: Prophit
» RE: What's interesting is how ... Posted by: Colton_Alexander
» How about this then.. Posted by: sln70
» RE: How about this then.. Posted by: Colton_Alexander
Justice and Common Humanity
Posted by: Colton_Alexander on Apr 6, 2006 4:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Colton, what are your political leanings? If they're not Republican I'm sure some people are going to be disappointed that pedophiles aren't restricted to the Catholic church and Republican party." -- begeerdes

Funny, I was recently posting rational replies on a another liberal forum to attacks on MAAs (Minor Attracted Adults), and I was charged with being a conservative in disguise attempting to show the hypocrisy of liberals in their hate for MAAs. On a conservative forum my life was threatened and I exemplified the culmination of a liberal society: legalized sex with kids. It's funny how some people are so myopic that they can't see past their own ideologies. Yes, I'm liberal; I work every election for the local democratic party, I've protested the war in four countries, and I organized an international peace march against the bombing of Afghanistan in 2001. As a liberal my bona fidas are better than most people I know.

Brasilaron in the second reply to my post makes an interesting point: "But, we live in a society of law, not of individual wo/men, and we all must follow the law or face the charges of criminality. I am revolted by your attempt to justify the predatory nature of your sexual attraction."

True we do live a society of law; in fact, I can't think of any society without law, but that does not mean the laws in place are just. Child-love, in every way, is a civil rights issue. What if Rosa Parks never decided to brake the law and sit in the front of the bus? What if gay leaders never pushed the question of the freedom to marry the person they loved? Or women never fought for the right to vote? MAAs fit squarely into this larger question of universal justice. I believe it is our duty as citizens of this country to challenge these Nazi-esque laws at every turn. In many ways our battle is two-fold. 1) It is for MAAs to have the civil rights and liberties that any minority group is entitled to, and 2) We are also fighting for the rights of children who are, with us, the last of the enslaved in America. Where MAAs are seen as the new "nigger", children are seen as the new property in that they can be tried as adults for crimes yet they cannot even consent to sexually express themselves. Children have no voice in this country; they are subject to the abuse of the "the system" and their guardians without any access to justice, if need be. Funny how the idea of a child having an orgasm repulses many of you here, yet the fact that he or she is consistently denied even the most basic rights is a fact you all have no problem with.

I use the suffrage of the Jews and Blacks as a human rights model for MAAs because I was told once by a Holocaust survivor that the great tragedies of human history must serve as patterns for future advancement. We once said of the millions who died in those atrocities, "Never again!", yet this very moment it is happening again, right here on American soil. Laws that enact the death penalty for MAAs are being installed. As the Jews were rounded up into ghettos, so too are MAAs being rounded up by PFZs (Pedophile-Free Zones). The template is exactly the same, the only thing left is for the other foot to drop and for the order to begin killing to be given. Under all that is good and human, we must fight these measures before humanity fails once more and another tragic chapter is written. Sadly, as I've seen here, many liberals are not up to the challenge of common humanity.

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» Your friggen sick too!!!!! Posted by: Prophit
» RE: This is either satire or you need help Posted by: Colton_Alexander
Aleabeth
Posted by: Aleabeth on Apr 6, 2006 4:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a survivor...

Where do I even begin.

It started when I was all of six years, continuing until around 11. It happened while I was in one particular foster home, during times where sexual abuse against children was hush-hush. The sickest aspect was finding out that I was a third generation victim. First, it was my grandmother, who was abused by her father, a police officer in illinois. He would use a gun to play russian ruelette (sp?) with her.Is it any wonder she couldn't help her daughter several years later when he new husband terrorized the "all-girl" household.

My mother went on to make some choices in her life that weren't in her best interest... namely marrying my father, both being arrested developement, him being an abusing alcoholic. Hence why I and my siblings were placed into foster care.

The foster home was that of a german immigrant and her GI husband who helped liberate during WWII.

There is a reason why I bring that up.

I was abused by their son(12), who would try and use old german propoganda magazines from Hitler's regime to "condone" his actions.

These were magazines devoted to the "perfect race", showing whole families frolicking naked through the countryside, depicting all kinds of actions, both sexual and not.

Even when I did try and tell someone, it would fall on deaf ears. Of course my "parents" would hear none of it. Hell, in fact, my foster father tried to "join in".

This would explain my keen interest in Human/Societal behavior.

In an ac/dc society that both demonizes and sensationalizes sexuality, you are going to breed abhorant behavior (abhorant by society's standards, which btw, changes like the climate).

Before recent times, people married at a much younger age than they do today.It isn't/wasn't unheard of for 9 and 10 year olds to marry, with girls having children before they even reached their late teens.

Children are chattel. To be done w/by adult wishes. Look at the pre/post industrial era in most countries, when did we (US) abolish child labor?

Yet today we're still majorly confused.

Remember the photos of little JonBenet Ramsey? Comments were made all over on how she was made to look older, to look sexy. And how old was she???? Six.

Starting around the 60's we started obsessing about teens in tv, in movies, music. Teen magazines would fund sweepstakes to win dates with your obsessions.

Were youth obsessed. We want to live forever. We want skin like a baby's. God forbid we get wrinkles. Getting old is the pits, but looking old is abhorant!

We're sex obsessed. We sell EVERYTHING with sex. Has anyone seen the new "tire" commercials? What the hell do they have to do with sexuality????

I could go on w/these two points, but I think you dear reader get the pic.

Now, add to that mixture the complete (and please, anyone w/this condition, please no offense is meant) schizophrenic attitude toward our youth and what should or shouldn't be allowed.

It's okay to fight and die for your country, but god help you if you have a beer to commemorate your "adult" behavior.

In some states, it's still okay for a 12 year old girl to marry... but not okay if it's to some old geezer!

It's enough to make your head swim.

Add all this into an already psychotic or neurotic psyche (which is more often than we'd like to admit) for whatever reason and you get those that will act on what the rest of society considers abhorant.

Go figure.

Posturing on the "what to do with em" after the deed is done is not going to make it all go away. We have to look at the core.

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Figueroa
Posted by: bannelee on Apr 6, 2006 4:58 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
RE:Another Homeland Security official -- Frank Figueroa, special agent in charge of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Tampa -- faces trial this week on charges of exposing himself to a teenage girl last year at a mall. Figueroa, who has been suspended, pleaded not guilty.
--i don't know if anyone's already posted this,but this guy has changed his plea to "no contest".

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» RE: Figueroa Posted by: Colton_Alexander
» RE: Figueroa Posted by: 50566
How else
Posted by: KUCING on Apr 6, 2006 5:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Gee, any OTHER job requirements to work for this Admin? "

Yes you have to be really good at denying that reality is real, and ofcourse you have to vow that you have been told so by God.

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» factoids Posted by: jedson
» RE: factoids Posted by: Colton_Alexander
» RE: factoids Posted by: Kelly
» RE: factoids Posted by: jedson
» RE: factoids Posted by: 50566
All good christians
Posted by: pmurray on Apr 6, 2006 6:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Says it all. Religious people tend to be perverts.

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» and they even know it Posted by: 50566
Pedophiles in Power
Posted by: ninggee on Apr 7, 2006 12:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would like to recommend a good book that is very informative on this subject. It is "The Trance-Formation of America" By Cathy O'Brien and Mark Philips. First hand accounts of what takes place in our Government and the Entertainment World. These perverts in power run scot free and they make Laws that effect all of us. Our jails & prisons are full of a lot of persons with minor crimes while these crooks run free. Wrong Wrong Wrong.

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Pot calling Kettle! Come IN Kettle!
Posted by: Roverton on Apr 8, 2006 10:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why would a party with several (Identified) pervs in their midst to date, still present so strong a stance on Christian morals?

Is it divinely inspired wisdom from God? Is it a voice in his head? OR, is it a voice in very-close-proximity to his head?

Poor W, all the Pres has for counsel is the AV nerd from school.

No WONDER they're so good at projecting.

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THE RANSOME RODEO
Posted by: Roverton on Apr 8, 2006 10:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a Clown Car stuffed with deviants!

Who gets to steer?

YEE-HAA!

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the muddy waters of adult child sexuality
Posted by: Colton_Alexander on Apr 9, 2006 10:39 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mt Alexander considers himself to a boon to society and is proud of the fact that people who believe as he does have provided a type of sexual experience which they (the young children) have no experience to understand. Sex is a complicated and meaningful experience and people should some how have the full benefit of understanding what is happeneing to them and why. Mr Alexander's solution is misleading at best and is advocated by him because of his narcissistic personality. How do I know this? I was a victim as a child for 6 years from age 8. I didn't know what in the world was going on. The perpetrator was a priest and I couldn't even discuss it with anyone because evryone admired this priest and called him a great man. I knew differently but had limited maturity and experience and thus locked it up for 50 years.

So Mr Alexander pleade reconsider your inappropriate description of pedophile.

-- Charaud

Sir, you are the one inappropriately describing MAAs (Minor Attracted Adults). As I have said before, I am the first person to condemn any type of abuse of children. But it is abuse we must come to understand without the layers of scripting that society imposes on it.

The “abuse hysteria” in the Catholic Church is a good example of the muddied waters that flood the conversation about real abuse of children. Yes, there are cases where priests abuse their power for sexual gratification; and to add fuel to the fire the Church is the culprit in helping to create a society that not only fears, but hates, the sexuality of children. The anti-sexuality message (targeted at adults and children alike) has done untold damage to the psyche of faithful followers—that coupled with the natural inclination of men and boys to be sexually active together creates a befuddled atmosphere of guilt and shame.

If we could somehow erase the guilt and shame projected on sexuality, we would be well on the road to decriminalizing adult-child sexuality, and begin the process of healing that our culture so desperately needs. Our anti-sex culture has raped children of the right to be free agents over their bodies and their emotions. The result is a system that makes billions of dollars a year falsely proclaiming that sex damages children when it does no such thing! Such nonsense has done untold harm, and, trust me, we will come to understand this in time, just as we came to understand that a person of color and white person could marry, just as we are now coming to understand that homosexual couples are legitimate—so too will we come to understand that consensual sex between an adult and a child is not wrong, not damaging, not evil; that, indeed, like any consensual relationship, it is beneficial on many levels.

My words may seem radical, but rationally they are irrefutable, just as the right for women to vote one time seemed radical but also irrefutable, just as the right for slaves to be free seemed radical but also morally irrefutable, just as the right for gays to marry seems radical but also inalienable and irrefutable.

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southern students for choice
Posted by: sschoice on Apr 11, 2006 7:10 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just a couple quick comments.

First, in response to the article at the top of this page, I would presume that the Department of Homeland Security really does do background checks and assessments which would likely flag people predisposed to acting out illegally or dysfunctionally as this guy did.

Maybe the guy in question at the Dept of Homeland Security was psychologically healthy by their assessments. My guess would be that he is healthy, although maybe a little depressed because of the deaths of a couple family members, which has recently come out in the press. So if he's otherwise healthy and not a measureably sick and criminally disposed individual but still he goes online and tries to seduce a 14-year-old, then what? Well, change the rules by which the businesses which are on the internet are run by, of course.

This incident and a few others recently like it, plus the purchase of Myspace by Rupert Murdoch will very likely change the terms on which minors of any age can post online. I'm not quite sure how the rules will change, but watch the TOS (terms of service) of Myspace for a standard which most if not all other web businesses, for-profit and not-for-profit, will follow. It will be fun still, and even more profitable, but it will be run with the idea that if the kids get hurt on their site that they might be at least sued for it. I don't think they'll go so far as to require participants to wear a helmet in all photographs on their respective web page, but I'll expect them to come close.

Sorry, kids.

And second, I'm not a moderator here, but in the interest of promoting a productive dialogue and no more rules or moderation than necessary, if someone has the audacity to post a comment personally condoning in the present day sex between a legal (18+) adult and a young adolescent child well under the average age of consent in the US, say 14, I'd like to suggest that the best response in turn would be a post saying as simply as possible thatyou're wrong, you're sick, and I hope your IP gets reported to the appropriate authorities, etc. I'm not saying that should even have to be a rule here, just an encouraged policy. It does no good to try to argue with them, the dialogue degenerates into opening up the debate on how such words or actions should be tolerated, and/or nutty conspiracy theories about a secret pedophile ring operating at high levels of government, as we see above.

One of AlterNet's policies regarding posts says something about not tolerating racist, sexist, or hateful language. Language that might be construed as tolerating pedophilia doesn't exactly fall into those categories, but in the spirit of that policy and in hopes that we really don't have to try to define a rule banning discussion along these lines, I'd like for people posting, at least, to consider responding to posts that seem to tolerate child sexual abuse in the same way as clearly racist, sexist, or hateful posts.

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» RE: southern students for choice Posted by: Colton_Alexander
» RE: southern students for choice Posted by: Colton_Alexander
tip of the iceberg...
Posted by: 50566 on Jun 11, 2006 8:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is only the tip of the iceberg. Do a little reseach while you still can. Check out the Franklin Coverup of 1991, example:
article written by one of the investigators

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