Certainly we should work to improve the Third World in the long run. However, in the short run, Americans are going nuts over illegal immigration for reasons both racist and economic, and I think standing in the way of this is just going to marginalize us further. While we can't sympathize with Pat Buchanan's attempts to preserve a White America, I do think we should at least try to protect the wages of American workers--the advantage the left has is economic, most of the country isn't ready for gay marriage and such. We need to press our advantage.

I feel it would also be better for Hispanics in the country already. It would allow assimilation, the way Italians, Irish, and Jews assimilated after immigration was cut off in the 1920s. While on the left we may believe in cultural diversity, in the end making a group remain separate usually just results in the creation of a racial underclass (this is what happened to African-Americans). Recall that Hispanics didn't get upset about proposals to restrict immigration until the rhetoric turned racist and they felt personally attacked. While Hispanic *leaders* may want a big Hispanic group to increase their power and votes, individual immigrants (such as Chavez) are just trying to get by and are often hurt by the downward pressure on wages.

I feel like the elites on both left and right want to encourage illegal immigration (on the left because they want to increase diversity, on the right because they want a cheap labor force) while the people on the ground want to cut down on it (on the left because their wages are decreasing, on the right because they are racist).

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... illegals can go home permanently instead of seasonally. If we aid Mexican workers in fighting for the destruction of the class system in mexico, aid in building a true middle class and help them to fight for laws that allow all Mexicans to have access to education and all professions, then I think that is best.

If we are able to help them do that, then they could give up this horrible situation they are in here in America where they come for 6 months, work, send the money back to Mexico and then go home when the work is done for the season. While here they are living under inhumane conditions of 20 people to a home, hiding and skulking and living in fear of being caught and deported.

This way, if we aid them in changing their situation in Mexico they can stay there, fight for their country like we are doing here, change the economic conditions and then wouldn't have to transfer our nations wealth to another nation, they could make and keep what they earn in Mexico and not have to leave their families by making that dangerous life threatening trek across the killing desert every 6 months.

Let us send them home with the skills they have acquired here and aid them in transferring it to the Mexican economy.

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It is interesting that Ms. Tucker acknowledges that UFW called INS to protect the rights of worker's, but thinks Chavez would be for today's illegal immigrants. Chavez represented the concerns of native Hispanics and Blacks, the right to collective bargaining is an essential right of the working class. I've said on this line one time too many that I personally called Mr. Chavez at the urging of Angela Davis to help me organize the illegals at Hollywood Park and Santa Anita in California. The UFW was emphatic in telling me they didn't work with illegals. You see they understood what I've come to understand that illegals have a different agenda than citizens. And they organize around their issues, not the issues of the masses. Every one of these articles has asked the masses to ignore that reality. In fact they won't even act responsibly by doing stories around the displaced American worker because they know if Americans were brought inside this issue, there would be even less support for the rights of illegal immigrants. But sweeping the truth under the rug isn't working to build a true coalition on the part of the Left, it is further fracturing us. The reason the revolution won't be televised is because it ain't gonna happen!

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“……… enough American wealth to support ………”

Therein lays the definition of a fundamental problem – the concept that over breeding anywhere enables and justifies access to the assets of others.

Our immigration problems are many and they are complex. It has been correctly noted that there is no single measure that will solve the problem.

Amnesty of various flavors has already been tried – and failed to do any more than show potential illegals that if they can ‘get in’ and stay out of sight that all will eventually be well. Without some provision for deporting the illegals already here, what is the incentive for anyone to wait their turn for legal entry?

There is a great deal of room in this country. Even in ‘bad’ times our economy is quite good compared to third world countries. We will always be a magnet for people seeking to do better and to live free. Is it fair to ask how many we have room for? Is it reasonable to expect them to assimilate rather than colonize?

The wages for illegals will always remain low (too low is not an exaggeration) as long as there are other illegals coming across the border willing to work for less. Higher wages in the lettuce fields, car washes and Walmart will not happen until those who hire the illegals are hit with penalties – high fines and possible jail time – for hiring illegals.

As complex as the problem is, it will not be solved without first acknowledging its various components.

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As I have pointed out here before, Chavez not only reported the illegal labor scabs to the INS, he sent his brother and some men down to the border to give the illegal scabs a beating. Our labor leaders knew how to take care of American economic rights back in those days.

Nowadays, the so called "liberal" politics of the American Left is actually a FAUXLEFT, a FALSE Left, one that has created by years and decades of propaganda that purports to be Leftist, but in actuality is a crypto-right, a neoliberal, globalist propaganda that manufactures consent by pushing guilt buttons, primarily race guilt buttons. But our fauxleft never mentions that this country was not only built on the backs of black slaves, but also white slaves, who often were sold at auction after being marched off the ship in chains. Google "homo sapiens americanus" and "fauxleft" for more details.

And the fauxleft never mentions that DNA tests show that about 20-30% of all white Americans have recent African DNA from race mixing over the 400 years of American history. And that even more white Americans have Indian DNA. Google "one drop rule" and "frank sweet" for more info.

Of course the elite propaganda never mentions this when they crank out the race guilt propaganda. That would make it pretty hard to manufacture consent for mass immigration, and it would tend to unite not divide the white majority into two camps (red state v blue state). Divide and rule, same as it ever was....

So, wannabe elite propagandists like Maria Luisa Tucker here are trying to make it into the political pundit elite circle by helping the elite push race guilt buttons through propaganda that legitimizes and manufactures consent for mass immigration. OF course this mass immigration is really just manipulation of the American labor markets in order to make the rich richer.

The elite want to keep the labor supply growing faster than the labor demand. And every time some 3rd world immigrant shows up in america looking to a job right away, without having grown up here (and in the process creating labor demand), that labor supply curve jumps ahead of the labor demand curve, which causes wages to drop and causes fat elite wallets to get even fatter.

Way to sell out your fellow working American citizens, Tucker. Treason is what it is....

Tucker knows that if she writes good elite-friendly, pro-immigration propaganda, other media outlets will pick up her writing, making her name more known, and getting paid some, too. She knows that publication means money, and with good button-pushing pro-immigration propaganda, she can apply and obtain lucrative grants from the nonprofit foundations. These nonprofit foundations were set up by the plutocrats like Ford and Rockefeller and have grown into a vast network of think tanks and foundations that subsidize a massive output of all sorts of elite-friendly propaganda. They pay for propaganda. They know that the human brain is susceptible to propaganda indoctrination if it is pervasive and longterm. They don't brainWASH people, they brainGROW people so that the entire CULTURE is elite-friendly. They create thoughtcrimes of the ideas that hurt the elite, such as racism. Racism is everywhere. But they turned it into thoughtcrime because they want an ever growing supply of cheap scab labor. So they created multiculturalism to divide and to change the political debate, and also to facilitate acceptance of ever more cheap and desperate scab 3rd world labor.

Google "roelofs" and "mask of pluralism" for more info.

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A relief. Cesar Chavez was neither a racist nor a xenophobe, and most Americans of Mexican descent are concerned about the sheer numbers of undocumenteds. Numbers aside -- 2 million 25 years ago, 11 million today -- assimilating most of them is inevitable.

Normalizing their situation (short of or even including amnesty, if that were politically viable) will require the U.S. to assert control of the border area. Some on the left seem in danger of dislocating their shoulders from patting themselves on the back about not being "racist" (as they perceive the term), and apparently see nothing screwed up about the current immigration "system" of smugglers, death in the desert, union-busting, exploitation, etc.

The UFW had a very fragile start. How is it faring nowadays? Occasionally we'll have a comment from the "nothing can be done" crowd here to the effect that well, consumers will never boycott or anything like that. Consumers DID boycott in the 1970s, enabling the UFW to get established.

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I think that this was a very good article because it stressed the complexities of the issue. On one hand, we do depend on undocumented workers. If they provide services for us, they should be given full rights.

On the other hand, while the US has always welcomed newcomers, we have never had so much outsourcing before. Or downsizing. People are living longer, but do to age discrimination must take jobs lower than their skill levels. With the new bankruptcy bill, and higher minimum payments, many will be forced to take second jobs. I can't completely believe that newcomers are only doing jobs "Americans" won't. I was unemployed last year and really desperate. I applied to anything and everything, but was passed over because I was "overqualified." I remember going into a temp agency. I was told things were slow and they didn't have anything. Yet a man next to me was enthusiastically given a factory job. He was asked if he had any friends - it was a simple job, all they had to do was press a button. But they had to be bilingual because it was a bilingual shop. (I live in a place where bilingual could mean Polish, Arabic, etc, not necessarily Spanish) I enquired about the job and was brushed off. That agency never did call me for anything.

Lets find a way to protect labor and undocumented newcomers at the same time!

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ON THE SUBJECT OF IMMIGRATION

"I want all them damn foreigners to get off my land and go back to where they came from," said a disenfranchised, "removed'' heir of the "Trail of Tears" Native American living on a poverty stricken "Indian" reservation somewhere in the vast void of West Oklahoma

For more: Go to Radio Left and see columnist Michael O'McCarthy

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The answer to the problem is to improve conditions in Mexico, not grant citizenship to a low estimate of 12M people.
The tired old arguments of racism, disparity of wealth,etc...do not work here. They are easy answers.
There are hard questions to be asked and we aren't even addressing them. This is perfect for Bush because the real problems behind illegal immigration are not even being addressed and never will as long as this fake rhetoric continues.
The NAFTA policies of this country have devastated the peasant population in Mexico, wiped out the middle class,created an extremely wealthy elite (who don't pay taxes) and forced them to come north to find survival.
We are supposed to be in a free trade agreement with them, but our farmers get subsities to sustain them and give them a big edge over Mexicans. American corporations there lowered the wages of people who work for them.
Until we address the NAFTA agreement and hold American businesses accountable and let Mr Fox know that the answer is not in suggesting that all his poor come here, this issue will never be solved.
I think we should grant temporary amnesty to illegals in order to find out how many,where from, why came and how working here now. Getting the real stories out about NAFAT and its effects will be devesating to BUSH and CO.
We need facts and statistics in order to see the pattern and formulate a plan.

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The key to finding common ground is fighting for jobs for everyone. Whether Black, white, Asian or Latino, native-born or immigrant—no one can live without income. Yet this basis for an alliance of mutual interest has largely fallen off the liberal agenda. Even unions, the bastion of support for the Humphrey-Hawkins Full Employment Act, a proposal in the 1970s that the federal government provide jobs to eradicate unemployment, pay only lip service to the idea today. In the Democratic Party, free market ideologues ridicule the idea that the government should guarantee employment, as it did in the New Deal programs of the 1930s. Instead, both parties propose to pile guest worker programs and increased enforcement of employer sanctions on top of job competition. This is an explosive mixture in which no one has the right to a job, and everyone shares only increased insecurity.

Unemployment and racism in the U.S. economic system pit communities of color against each other, and against working-class white communities. Competition produces lower labor costs and higher profits. It's no accident that the guestworker programs in Congress are pushed by the Essential Worker Immigration Coalition, which includes 38 of the country's largest industrial and business associations.

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With the Trillion dollar deficit that the US is accumulating, it is only a matter of time before China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, and other nations holding US Treasury Bonds proceed to stop purchasing bonds and dump their holdings. The financial roof will fall in on the US as the value of the dollar crashes rendering the US a Has-Been former world power. That will stop illegal immigration for sure.

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Chavez would never agree with you, Ms. Tucker. If you wish to learn the real truth about the complexity and the effect on the economy that these problems of immigration cause, then read this: http://www.cis.org/

I hope you read some of the comments below.

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It boils down to one word, HUMANITY. Nothing trumps HUMANITY.

What is the nature of this passion
John McCarthy, Los Angeles, 29 March 2006


Those who organized the gatherings of over 500,000 concerned human beings Saturday last are to be congratulated with gusto.

Reasonable men and women, like those who gathered over their concern for Immigration Policies that are egregious and politically motivated, would agree, from the available evidence, that 9.11 was an Inside Job. Those are the same standards DOJ offers to jury's in criminal courts!

The Patriot Act was rushed into being by our elected officials who didn't even take the time to read the Act before they voted it in. The Act came about as a direct result of 9.11, and being an Inside Job, it should be seen as null and void as it was born out of treason and deceit. The Act affects all immigrants, including the so called illegals who number over 13,000,000.

We have seen what happened when we angered 13,000,000 Sunni Muslims in Iraq!

Beyond the Act, the same people who are responsible for planning and facilitating 9.11 are the ones framing the Immigration Policies and it's enforcement.

And, these same people fabricated "slam dunk" intelligence in order for Congress to provide the President with War Powers Acts for preemptive attacks on Iraq in violation of the Nuremberg Findings.

Crimes against Peace and Crimes against Humanity are the ultimate war crimes which we established in 1945.

Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson was appointed by President Truman to be the Chief Prosecutor at the International War Crimes Tribunal in Nuremberg, Germany and in his opening statement to the jury he said: "The standards by which we judge these defendants today are the same standards by which we shall be judged tomorrow".

Then we hanged them.

So, can you trust the current administration, who violates US Law, Constitutional Law, International Law, with the authority to impose and enforce Immigration Law?

The organizers that brought together over half a million people to raise their voices for democracy and freedom have shown the rest of America that all it takes is unity of purpose for the truth to be free again.

Welcome to America.

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The comments of some of you here and on other places on the internet where immigration is being discussed sound as if you think that these people from Mexico who are here illegally, (undocumented, unregistered, ...unseen and ) are not really humans...goes beyond racism... are but mere pawns in the game. Pieces on a table, things to be regimented and moved about at the whim of...???

In the high emotion of the moment, those of us who are really on the left need to get a grip! Stay centered. Remember who is really the enemy of us all, Mexican citizens and U.S. citizens alike...Transnational Corporations and their international capitalist stock holders! They do not give a shit about Mexican workers and their families or U.S. workers or Canadian workers or Brazilian workers or WORKING CLASS PEOPLE around the world.

There are some here who I suspect are necon thugs trying to disrupt the meaningfull discussion of the immigration crisis, and others who are members of extremist organizations like the Minutemen whose rhetoric that can be found on their various websites appears here and other sites as well.Don't be fooled. Lets keep our eyes on the prize.

Joseph.

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Immigrants are taking jobs that "Americans will not accept" in the words of a lot of people. But the reason that Americans will not accept those jobs is the atrocious pay, the unsafe working conditions, and the long hours without overtime protection. If there were someway that jobs were constructed in such a way as to eliminate these concerns as well as others that also need to be addressed, there would be much less problem. Employers are able to use underpaid immigrants as a weapon against American workers by threatening to replace them with cheap labor. One place to start rectifying the situation is with a realistic minimum wage and an effective worker safety program. With more jobs then being attractive for citizens, there would be no reason for employers to hire illegals because they would not be able to oppress them. And the "extra" money for payroll can come out of the CEOs' obscenely outsized incomes. A rollback to the relation between CEO and worker incomes of thirty years ago won't hurt anyone.

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Inflation must be kept under control. It degrades everything except debt. The reason the US continues to mount up its debt is because we can pay off those bonds with printed money. You want to redeem a $100 bond? We'll be able to pay it off at 10 cents on the dollar by revaluing our currency. All our creditors know that. All know that's why we want to keep the dollar as the dominant international currency.

Yes, drastic revaluation will wreck our economy, and it will ruin the economy of anyone who tries to pull the rug out from under us as well. China and Japan know that, too.

I keep looking for someone to tell me how we can make working peoples' lives better without cranking up inflation.

So far I have sought in vain. Redistribute the wealth sounds like a good idea until you see that it leads to widespread degradation of the quality of life.

The only thing good about a market economy is that you don't have all your eggs in one basket. When one basket breaks, it is a warning to repair the remaining baskets. The best we can do is stay one whole basket ahead of a total breakdown. All the rest is palaver.

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The basic fact is that this is a country of immigrants, built by immigrants, and sustained by immigrants (this even includes the native Americans, though they did come over some 20,000 years ago).

Pete Wilson in California tried to play the race card to gain re-election about a decade ago; the same tired arguments were trotted out then, just as they are now. The deliberate manipulation of people's fears seems to be the Republican MO; Be scared! Be afraid! Only we can save you from those people who don't look just like you!

We should provide education to all immigrants, as well as basic health care services. We should also make sure that our neighboring countries have healthy economies - meaning, the USA needs to abandon its 'Tonya Harding model' of economic competition. Criminals of any stripe should be subject to the rule of law - illegal immigrants and government officials included.

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"The work Americans aren't willing to do," this argument is one of those tenth-hand opinions that gets passed from one set of lips to another until they have lost all sense of the words. This idea is offensive to both sides. It's insulting to those we consider inferior for being willing to work and it's insulting to Americans.
There is so much opportunity in this country for immigrants as well as Americans. Those who are really benefiting from illegal immigration are those exploiting the delicate position illegal immigrants are in when they arrive. If we really want to ensure human and labor rights for everyone in this country, including those breaking their backs at the bottom, then we will pull the wool from our eyes.
It is scarcely arguable that changes need to be made. We should embrace our fellow citizens and offer them the same rights that we enjoy in our white collar positions: health and safety standards, minimum wage laws, and income taxes.
Every other week in Silicon Valley there is an article in the paper about someone being deported after living in the US and creating a life and family here for ten years. This is not acceptable either. After something like ten years productive membership in American society these immigrants should have proved their worthiness as citizens. Deporting these people is nothing short of fascism.
So while we should keep closer watch on incoming immigrants that we have turned a blind eye to because we don’t want to spend more on strawberries at the supermarket- we should also embrace the people living in this country illegally who have, through whatever circumstances, been contributory and productive members of our melting pot.

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Hi~
Let's not establish any amnesty program until we develop a means of guaranteeing the employment status of anyone working in the country: we need an employment ID system that can be relied upon to confirm the status of applicants for jobs. Let's also reform the H-1B program that is being abused to import labor to take jobs from Americans.

It is not racist to be concerned that employers are using foreign labor, both legally and illegally in the country, to undermine the economic security of Americans. The people most affected by undocumented workers are poor Americans of all ethnic backgrounds who are being denied opportunities for entry into the work force. They are being denied opportunities in jobs that are unskilled, semi-skilled, skilled, and professional.

We have a social contract with our youth. We promise them an opportunity to find work that will allow them to enjoy the American dream. In exchange, we expect them to go to school, study, and otherwise learn how to become good citizens. Turning a blind eye to others taking these jobs and opportunities is a breach of faith with our youth.

God Speed,
David

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There's no debate. Instead we see Alternet diligently working to establish as politically correct the neo-liberalist immigration dogma and airhead denial of the basic logic of supply and demand. It has done so by allowing one side a thundering repetitious voice at the top of the site while the pro-US working class voice toils in the response section.

And, Alternet is the place to come for the standard race card 'guilt by association' strategy to be thrown at those of us who just want US semi-skilled and non-college-educated workers and youth to have good-paying jobs. Jobs that, as long as illegals flood them, will always be low-wage and. realistically, impossible to organize.

And yes, Cesar Chavez did oppose union-breaking illegal immigrants coming across the border. Those folks eventually destoyed his union, and farmworker wages and working conditions too. That's the real world of supply and demand, by the way, and Cesar was fighting for real wages and real benefits for real people, and he eventually lost. He sure would be bitter about neo-liberals like Maria Tucker invoking his name.

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While debating (if that's the right word) immigration, both legal and illegal, we need to consider the fact that the immigration of unskilled, poorly-educated people is keeping wages and benefits depressed for the poorest Americans, who have to compete with immigrants who will accept minimal wages and no benefits. New York Times columnist Paul Krugman, who is generally pretty liberal, made the point that the American economy benefits very little from the immigration of unskilled or low-skilled people. There is a great benefit to the immigrant, of course, but to our society and economy there is very little advantage, except that cheapskate employers can find people who are willing to work for wages that Americans simply cannot survive on.

In fact, the low-skilled immigrants do not pay enough in taxes (and let's not forget that many of the illegals do day labor and are paid in cash, which means that they pay no taxes) to pay for the many benefits they receive from our society. Our society has a fairly scanty "safety net" anyway, but illegal immigrants can get at least emergency medical care for themselves and their families, education for their children, often receive food and housing assistance from well-intentioned charity groups, and other social benefits that are intended for Americans in need. Our social welfare providers are being overwhelmed by immigrants who want to be provided with all these benefits and more. Some county hospitals, whose emergency rooms are used by illegals almost exclusively for their health care, are being driven into bankruptcy because of the mountains of unpaid bills.

Other hidden costs of immigration include identity theft by illegal aliens, who may "borrow" someone else's Social Security number, even their entire identity. Another "victim" of illegal immigration is our national respect for the rule of law. When millions of foreigners feel "entitled" to enter the U.S. in violation of our laws and to use false ID in order to secure employment, our national sovereignty is violated.

Mexico is strict about its own illegal immigration (unless it is people who are headed to the U.S.!), has strict limitations on what property foreigners can buy, and its own constitution forbids any sort of foreign influence on its government. However, Vicente Fox feels free to meddle in our governmental affairs and try to dictate our immigration policies. We should remind him of his own laws and demand that he respect our laws as well. Essentially, illegal immigration is costing us far more than it is worth, and we should take steps to eliminate the "jobs magnet" that draws unskilled or low-skilled immigrants here. Enforce employer sanctions with heavy fines, and when the jobs dry up, perhaps the illegals will decide to go home.

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Everything you have said is true and it is time for the American people whom are honest, truthful about everything come forth and DEMAND a housecleaning of our congress, senate and above all about our overseer whom seems to be bent on destroying America - bit by bit - and seems to be doing a good job so far. Are we to let the socalled ELITE ruin our lives, our country? I don't think so - that is abominable too say the least. What happened to HONESTY? Human beings around the world should be reading this too, just maybe they might get a glimpse of what is happening to planet earth, total ruination for sure. Todays world the human being counts for absolutely nothing, except cheap labor ----- slowly evolving into servitude of which a few years ago we managed to crawl up and out of that mess, well now we are back into it, why?? Because we allowed some cheap iggnorant whatever you choose to call them, intrude into our lives and slowly change us, sick demented minds with only one thing on their mind -MONEY, POWER is this what we have finally evolved into again, I don't think so, thanks for reading and I am so sincere in what I write. Thanks.

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As I explained in my e-mails to my Senator and Gov. Dean; I don't have a horse in this race, I live on a fixed income.

If any of you know Thom Hartmann, Radio Program & author he explains it very well, through the principal of Supply and Demand! More workers, lower wages!

Many, (not all) do not come here to become Americans. They come and live in squaller, and send their money back to Mexico and else where. I've heard a figure of 40 Million a month! Mexico's second largest source of income for the country! That's money NOT going into our economy.

To reiterate a point made erlier, There are no jobs Americans won't do! I worked for 90 cents an hour, on a CT. tobacco farm at 14 & 15 because it was the only work you could get at that age! How do todays kids earn money during the summers? Many can't because all the low wage jobs are taken.

Just If: instead of going after the illegal immigrant, or building walls (that won't work) , or an expensive program to give them all ID's, after background checks, then monitoring them for 5 or 6 years; Who's paying for All this? And who benifits from illegal immigrants being allowed to stay?

Real enforcement against the entity that's benifiting and has been for sometime! The employer, big business and Corporate America! If they had to pay for the cost of enforcement, detention, prosecution, and deportation, of every illegal person they hire, plus a heavy fine, and escalating criminal charges, misdeamenor to felony! Let me tell you, we would not have this problem, we wouldn't be being asked to PAY to solve it!

Then we can set up a reasonable immigration policy, or even a temp worker program!

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