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Banned and Gagged

By Rose Aguilar, AlterNet. Posted March 8, 2006.


South Dakota's extreme abortion ban is in perfect accord with what the United States has been doing internationally all along.
030806_story
Left: South Dakota governor Mike Rounds signing the abortion ban; Right: anti- and pro-choice protesters face off in Washington, D.C.

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After the recent confirmation of Supreme Court Justices John Roberts and Samuel Alito, it was only a matter of time before a state like South Dakota passed a law that banned all abortions, even in cases of rape and incest. South Dakota's governor, Mike Rounds, signed the ban on Monday. While the ban is a turning point for abortion politics at home, it mirrors what's already been happening overseas. Abortion rights advocates say it's time for Americans to start connecting the dots.

"Because of the constitutional guarantees embedded in the Roe v. Wade decision, Republican administrations have been unable to completely defund abortion groups in the United States, so they've taken it out on poor women in developing countries, but those policies are coming home," says Steven Sinding, an American who serves as director-general of the International Planned Parenthood Federation (IPPF), a London-based organization that supports the poor, underserved and marginalized in 180 countries.

The United States has funded international family planning programs since the 1960s, but in 1984, the Reagan Administration passed the Global Gag Rule, which denies U.S. Agency for International Development funding to overseas organizations that perform legal abortions with exceptions for rape and incest or to save a woman's life; provide counseling and referrals for abortion; engage in abortion-related public policy debates; or lobby to make abortion legal or more available in their own country.

"Americans have the right to say where their funding is going, but we find it completely unfair to be asking others not to talk about certain topics which are not liked by the American establishment," says Tewodros Melesse, director of the IPPF's Africa Region Office. "We believe the American Constitution and virtue of the American democracy exists on individual choices, on freedom and on democracy and to deny that right to others sends the wrong message."

The Clinton administration ended the Global Gag Rule in 1993 by executive order; President Bush reinstated it on his first day in office in January 2001, halting an estimated $15 million per year in funding to the IPPF after it refused to sign the rule. A number of reproductive rights groups, including Ipas, which has offices in 11 countries, have also lost funding to other organizations.

As a result, community-based health services have been curtailed and contraceptive supplies have drastically decreased. The United States stopped giving Zambia donated condoms after it refused to sign the Gag Rule, and several family planning clinics across Africa and Asia have been forced to close.

"We used to have 17 clinics; now we have nine," says Dr. Joachim Osur with IPPF member Family Health Options Kenya, a nongovernmental organization that advocates for reproductive rights in Kenya, where abortion is illegal, with an exception to save a woman's life. "We've been closing them one after another; we were hoping that someone would come to our rescue, but it never happened. After the clinics closed, fetuses were thrown in the streets. We feel the rate of abortion has gone up because women have no access to family planning."

The British Department for International Development recently announced plans to defy the U.S. government by contributing $5.3 million to the IPPF's new Global Safe Abortion Program. "That by itself does not make up for the $15 million a year we estimate we are losing as a consequence of the Global Gag Rule, but it's greatly appreciated," says Sindig. "They've [the British government] asked other European governments to join them in supporting the safe abortion fund. I anticipate it could compensate for the loss of the American money"

The program aims to provide the services and information needed to reduce the growing number of unsafe abortions worldwide. This year alone, 19 million women will face serious injury, illness or death as a consequence of abortions performed by unskilled people under unsanitary conditions. Nearly 70,000 will die. Virtually all of those women live in the poorest countries in the world, and almost every death and injury could be prevented, according to the IPPF's report, "Death and Denial: Unsafe Abortion and Poverty."


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Rose Aguilar is a San Francisco-based journalist currently writing a book about her journey across America. She can be reached at: rosea@storiesinamerica.org

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menace
Posted by: rsaxto on Mar 8, 2006 2:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bushies are the world's #1 menace to rationality, decency, science, compassion, women, constitutional law, peace and the environment. Impeach all the top Bushies for they are torturing, medieval, brainwashing, criminal throwbacks.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: menace Posted by: geming
» RE: menace Posted by: mmeetoilenoir
This makes me ashamed to be an American...
Posted by: adp3d on Mar 8, 2006 2:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Back even before abortion was made legal in this country well off women could get safe abortions if they wanted them. Hats off to those countries that continue to fund abortions for poor people.

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it's obvious
Posted by: candara on Mar 8, 2006 3:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For me, this article proves what I always thought was obvious. The ONLY reason these people want to make abortion illegal is that it's a surefire death penalty for women who decide to have one. It's obvious that women will get abortions whether it's legal or not. So, claiming that they're making it illegal to save a life (supposedly the fetus) is a lie. Think about it, this way they can make something illegal and don't even need to pay for a trial where they can sentence the woman to life in prison, or gas or electrocute her. The backstreet butchers do all their dirty work for them. The cherry on top is that they then get to pat each other on the back for being such good Christians (or whatever).

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» RE: it's obvious Posted by: owleyes
A carefully orchestrated propaganda campaign
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Mar 8, 2006 4:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The 'social conservatives' who form Bush's voting base (his support base is somewhat different) are at once very clever and very corrupt: hypocrites, in another world.

Take a look at the site www.all.org, run by the "American Life League". These people send representatives to international meetings and have managed to attain 'NGO' status from the UN. They do their utmost to undermine condom distribution and international family planning efforts. They also pushed very, very hard for the Roberts and Alioto nominations. Their site is obviously well funded and uses sophisticated PR methods. American Life League

Now we have this South Dakota law. The BBC interviewed one of their supporters, who said they intended to 'lock women up who intended to cross state lines in order to get an abortion'. They also said they had some provision whereby 'babies could be abandoned at fire stations or police departments for adoption'. This is just sick. Now let's see - do you think they'd be happy if homosexual couples adopted those abandoned babies?

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a modest proposal
Posted by: constantreader on Mar 8, 2006 6:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm beginning to think that the only solution in America is for all women of childbearing age to become celibate. We can easily say that hetero sex has now been made too risky for us (with bans on abortion and obstacles to obtaining contraception). If the men of America were not getting any, they'd promptly become advocates of reproductive freedom. (My rant out of sheer frustration).

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: a modest proposal Posted by: saywhat?
» RE: a modest proposal Posted by: pixiequix
» SEX STRIKE is right!! Posted by: janvdb
» RE: a modest proposal Posted by: Pseudo Morals
» RE: a modest proposal Posted by: honeyrose
» RE: a modest proposal Posted by: Boronia
» RE: a modest proposal Posted by: constantreader
» Good idea, but... Posted by: chief of okeefe
They'll never get pregnant
Posted by: zooeyhall on Mar 8, 2006 6:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For all those anti-abortion men out there---it's easy for you to take the stand you do. After all, you'll never get pregnant.

PS--> I am a guy

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» RE: They'll never get pregnant Posted by: originalbranek
» RE: You'll be OK Posted by: originalbranek
Death knell
Posted by: bookwoman on Mar 8, 2006 7:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My Scottish grandmother used to say many wise things. One which I always remember, having seen it to be sooooo true, is that you should be careful what you pray for as you may just get it. I would advise the Christian Right to remember this. The only issue which binds all of these groups, no matter where they stand on any other continuum, is bringing an end to legal abortion. If this issue is gone because they have "won" their campaign, we could very well see the adhesiveness of this group start to dissolve. Wouldn't that be great to see this group of nasty, hypocritical idealogues dissolve down into a puddle like the witch in "The Wizard of Oz".

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» RE: Death knell Posted by: jwg
» RE: Death knell Posted by: bettsoff
» RE: Death knell Posted by: mmeetoilenoir
» RE: Death knell Posted by: clocksmith
» RE: Death knell Posted by: Lily H.
» RE: Death knell Posted by: judithkrain
Absolutely
Posted by: janvdb on Mar 8, 2006 7:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
American women have been in denial for too long. The Repugs are pushing "The Latin Americanization of America" not just with regard to the creation of a disgustingly rich top 1% and an impoverished population -- they also want to make women's lives impossible, impossible, impossible.

If American women continue to do nothing and pretend "it's all affecting those BAD women over there who don't have a nice husband like I do," we will have the Juarez murders occuring somewhere in Oklahoma in a few years.

When are the nutcase women who have allowed themselves to be used as pawns by these woman-haters going to wake up? These people are against abortion, birth control, all of it for one reason -- they want to push women back into the physical-body-caused second-class status we have "enjoyed" since we were apes.

These people want women to be totally hamstrung, unable to plan, unable to control, unable to start a business, unable to do anything but lie around and WAIT WAIT WAIT to see if we will be pregnant this month and everything blown to hell in nine months or not.

Women without reliable birth control are not full-fledged human beings and NO birth control is reliable without abortion to provide that last, critical level of protection which will allow us to be absolutely sure what in hell we will be doing 9 months from now.

Not only that, the elimination of abortion increases the birth rate (exclusively of unwanted children) on a globe which needs about 3 billion FEWER humans, not billions and billions more.

A third of all known copper molecules are in use by humans today, another third are in the trash, leaving just one third for the use of all future generations.

So let's MAKE MORE BABIES.

It's not just women's lives these oblivious, hate-filled cretins are set out to destroy. It is the entire environment, our entire beautiful green globe. All for the sake of personal power over a woman.

And a lot of American women are going along with it.

SAD SAD SAD

Jan VanDenBerg

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» RE: Absolutely Posted by: morticia
» RE: Absolutely Posted by: morticia
New State Motto for South Dakota
Posted by: sweetlou on Mar 8, 2006 8:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Visit South Dakota. Go back in time.

(perhaps add a graphic of a coat hanger superimposed over the state)

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Motorcylists: Boycott Sturges, SD
Posted by: R.I.P. on Mar 8, 2006 8:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In my many years of motorcycling I have heard much talk about freedom. The huge meet at Sturges, SD, every year includes thousands of women rides who will be in the position of spending their money in a state in which their body is not their own. Just don't go there and let them know why.

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» RE: Motorcylists: Boycott Sturges, SD Posted by: mmeetoilenoir
An Immodest Proposal
Posted by: honeyrose on Mar 8, 2006 8:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I placed a similar post under Molly Ivan's article at Alternet. But for those of you posting over here, let me put forth my Immodest Proposal: Legislation and Regulation of Ejaculation! No ejaculation, no unwanted pregnancies ! That crazy S.D. legislator Napoli--I watched his interview on the PBS News Hour. When he pruriently imagined the details of a Really Brutal rape that would invoke the "save the life" exception to a ban on abortions, you could see his erotic temperature rising. For him, banning truly brutal rapes made sense, while the well known phenomenon of gentle rapes, he'd let go by to produce love children. But if Jonathon Swift could suggest eating babies, I don't know why we can't suggest preventing them at the source. Enact ejaculation legislation and regulation! Ejaculation only for procreation ! Any man found ejaculating without this lofty ideal in mind, well, Off With His, er, HeaD! And it's a subject so many male legislators know more about, while none of them to date have managed to carry a child inside themselves and have the slightest clue about its profound effects. In response to my idea, someone suggested taxing ejaculation too. I second that. Good way to draw down the national debt.

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» RE: I've been saying this, too Posted by: honeyrose
» RE: I've been saying this, too Posted by: saywhat?
» I posted it - Jismism Posted by: sln70
» RE: I posted it - Jismism Posted by: kww355
» RE: I posted it - Jismism Posted by: sln70
» RE: An Immodest Proposal Posted by: saywhat?
» RE: An Immodest Proposal Posted by: constantreader
they don't want to run out of desperately poor to enslave
Posted by: Andy Lee Parker on Mar 8, 2006 8:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These right wingers don't care about the sanctity of life--they want to ensure that there are always enough poverty-stricken pawns to do their bidding and increase their fortunes. To serve as cannon fodder in their war machine, to buy their arms in their struggle for survival, and kill one another at great profit. It truly turns the stomach. The sympathetic media coverage of the mine accident victim juxtaposed with the number of military interventions in the U.S. to break miners strikes clearly illustrates their true priorities. What they really want is not to share the power over life and death over others that they currently possess--even suicide is illegal.

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A Cunning and Subtle Plan
Posted by: Shehova on Mar 8, 2006 8:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It all makes sense: outlaw contaceptives and abortion. Remove any social support for single mothers and children in poverty, degrade the quality of education and eliminate health care for these children. Make sure there are no jobs available for them or their mothers. Only the strong will survive. They will have no choice but to join the military where they will be fed into the meat-grinder of our endless wars of conquest. Now: someone please tell me how wrong I am.

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the only problem
Posted by: popsicle67 on Mar 8, 2006 8:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
constantreader is dead on right. the only problem is that those
religious a-holes are there because of the institutional subservience of women that they can enjoy. trained from birth
that women are the property of their fathers then their husbands, those women could no more express an independant opinion than you or I can stomach their bible-thumping. the only other thing I would suggest is outlawing
the practice of making children practice religion. if we cut off the supply of new drones we can stamp out all religion in a generation or 2.

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SOUTH DAKOTA HATES THE US
Posted by: fiskhus on Mar 8, 2006 9:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before this abortion legislation hit the media, South Dakota was already in the news because of their determination to avoid helping the Gulf Coast.

Despite the fact that other regions in the US support SD farmers throught the crop insurance program, SD's Commissioner of Insurance publicly stated that SD shouldn't have to help the Gulf Coast insure themselves.

Apparently, SD just is NOT a place for decent, caring Americans to live.

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shape em up or ship em out
Posted by: thaumaturgistguy on Mar 8, 2006 9:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am so tired of religous conservatives (and despite christians being the worst offenders that can be any religion mind you) and thier crap.

I remember a time not too long ago when there was talk of one of the carolinas wanting to secede from the union and set up a christian state. I read another article about a fundie thinking this was a great idea and trying to convince other fundies to move there so that they can breed out all the non fundies. Ya know what? LET EM! Yeah sure let all the fundies move to one of the carolinas...hell maybe even both of them...we can be generous...and let them secede from the union. Let them be their own religious state. Once they are fully and totally separate...well let's just treat them like the foreign nation they want to be. Build a fence across the border like mexico and discriminate against them if they want to immigrate. Enact trade embargos since we of course don't deal with despotic regimes. Let them get hit by a hurricane or two (and you know there are more of em comin this summer...bigger and badder than before) and then when they plead for aid gently tell them, "God helps those who help themselves."

Shucks....too bad that won't ever happen. Instead I say this to forced birth advocates:

You claim to ban abortion to save lives? If you will permit me, oh lord, allow me to suggest some other places you might turn your righteous attention. Save some lives by pulling our troops out of Iraq. Save lives by chopping down big corporations that abuse their employees. Make healthcare universal for everyone in america. Force the government to alter foreign policy and not start wars of imperialism and aggression to procure foreign oil. Demand the government heavily fund alternative energy sources and maybe even legislate that the oil companies themselves take part in it. That'll save lives because after peak oil, if we don't have the alternatives worked out...well it will be the collapse of our society as we know it maybe...and that will certainly involve death. So please pull your head out of other peoples vaginas and see the world...really see it...and do something about it that is worthy of you and your god.

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Self-preservation could be the motive
Posted by: veive on Mar 8, 2006 10:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why would anyone in his or her right mind opt to live in South Dakota? Obviously no one would. Ergo, the plan is to have lots of babies, brainwash them in South Dakota thinking--such as it is, and thus maintain a sufficient population to justify retaining statehood. Ah, there is genius to be found in the strangest places, and South Dakota is certainly one of the strangest.

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rover
Posted by: Roverton on Mar 8, 2006 10:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What will the locals blow up now that there's no abortion clinics? Stay and fight, or relocate and abandon the nuthouse?

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» RE: rover Posted by: pomes
» RE: rover Posted by: Roverton
» RE: elocate Posted by: Roverton
Double standards and chickens coming home to roost
Posted by: CJC on Mar 8, 2006 10:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks to Rose Aguilar for making the connection between the renewed assault on the legality of abortion in the US and the Republican global gag rule. Anyone with even one drop of progressive blood should have known GWB was up to no good when he sat at his desk Day One in the White House, maybe he still had his coat on!, and reinstated the "Global Gag Rule."
Strike the weak first with a stroke of the pen.

Free speech is harder to attack at home but who in the US can make a forceful case for the rights of international organizations to do their jobs as they see fit, especially when it's just the trivial matter of reproductive rights?

So now the chickens are really come home to roost with South Dakota's abortion ban.

Here's one suggestion I posted also in reference to Molly Ivins' article.

Every man - Napoli, Santorum etc etc etc - who takes a
public stand against abortion should be asked this question -

"Will you assert that you have never been involved in any
way with an abortion for a woman in your family or a
woman you know - not a girlfriend nor a daughter nor a wife
nor a sister nor a niece nor an employee nor a friend.
If you refuse to answer this question I will assume your own
history is compromised."

I don't have any confidence that the men would answer
honestly, but when they lie someone out there will know the
truth.

We should ask this question and ask this question and ask
this question.

You can't argue about a "woman's right to choose," her right
to bodily integrity, the right of medical professionals to give
advice. These arguments fall on deaf ears. Make these men
take a personal stand!

Go after the hypocrisy!

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Demonstrate your outrage against this extremist assault on reproductive rights
Posted by: jamia on Mar 8, 2006 10:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rally Against the Abortion Ban!40 locations across the country will be participating in solidarity with women in South Dakota. Check out www.saveroe.com/eventfinder to find an event near you.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Demonstrate your outrage against this extremist assault on reproductive rights
Posted by: jamia on Mar 8, 2006 10:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rally Against the Abortion Ban!40 locations across the country will be participating in solidarity with women in South Dakota. Check out www.saveroe.com/eventfinder to find an event near you.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Demonstrate your outrage against this extremist assault on reproductive rights
Posted by: jamia on Mar 8, 2006 10:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rally Against the Abortion Ban!40 locations across the country will be participating in solidarity with women in South Dakota. Check out www.saveroe.com/eventfinder to find an event near you.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

um
Posted by: josh42042 on Mar 8, 2006 10:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the powers that be ant abortion and contraceptives and the like illigal because more unwanted children means more poor people means more cheap labor. nuff said.

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Internal surveillance
Posted by: Sushi on Mar 8, 2006 11:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just think of the possibilities...make it illegal to travel across state lines terminate an unwanted pregnancy, pull pregnancy self-tests off the drug-store shelves (or monitor your debit card for such purchases) so a woman will have to go to a doctor for testing. Make birth-control legal only for married women (with signed consent of her husband of course). Perhaps women will have to stop at check-points at airports or state lines and pee in a cup. If she's positive for pregnancy, will she be turned back at the border to go home for 9 months, or upon her return, will she have to pee in a cup again, perhaps being arrested on the spot if she is no longer pregnant or she cannot prove she miscarried? Will all miscarriages be suspect, perhaps requiring a trial? Imagine huge prisons full of desperate women working for the state pumping out the next unwanted generation. Sounds like a horror film plot coming to a state near you! Just tossing out a few thoughts here....use your imagination. You know *they* are!

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» your problem is Posted by: owleyes
» RE: your problem is Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Vanilla Ice is dead Posted by: morticia
Preaching to choir, again!
Posted by: oafling on Mar 8, 2006 12:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I live in Indiana and it's every bit as bad, if not worse, than anywhere else mentioned in all of these comments. We can rant about the Bushies and the Fundies all day and we'll all be just like Maureen Dowd, Bill Maher, and the rest of them. We're preaching to the choir folks! We already KNOW these cretinous idiots are ruining the country! We need to offer something to get people's attention, an alternative to their crap. The Dems will once again do nothing. Let's have some real ideas, new ones-something we can offer to the voters other than the old "look at what assholes the Repugnicans are". The Democrats are feckless and have let golden opportunity after golden opportunity slide through their fingers.

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Go to South Dakota tourism
Posted by: Ellie1 on Mar 8, 2006 2:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Go to South Dakota's tourism site and tell them in strongest of terms that they have lost your tourism dollars and tax dollars because of their stupidity.

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Is it too late
Posted by: rollo on Mar 8, 2006 2:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
for Barbara Bush to abort George and Jeb?

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» RE: Is it too late Posted by: Ellie1
» RE: Is it too late Posted by: morticia
» RE: Is it too late Posted by: astockton
re: What is there to see in Mississippi
Posted by: rollo on Mar 8, 2006 2:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have driven all over the USA as a commercial tour operator and man, is this a beautiful country. Even the middle of it, even those places you'd never think you want to visit. SD has the Badlands, MS the rivers and the Natchez Trace highway, etc. America is a gem.

What troubles me is that I have never ever left a place thinking, boy, those were some stupid people. Everywhere I've gone, my fellow Americans have been friendly, helpful and impressive specimens. So the mystery is: where is our collective national torpor and stupidity coming from? It is truly baffling.

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They can all go to the devil!
Posted by: favorites on Mar 8, 2006 2:53 PM   
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I LOATHE and DESPISE these rightwingers. As a woman, I have NEVER understood how any woman anywhere can ally herself with these creatures. It just goes to show how easy it is to brain wash people.

The Greek play by Aristophanes - LYSISTRATA - tells what happens when women decide to end a war by refusing to sleep with their husbands. Lately, I have been thinking about this. Why can't we start such a movement here in the US?

http://www.theatredatabase.com/ancient/aristophanes_005.html

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I live in South Dakota and
Posted by: SDres11 on Mar 8, 2006 4:19 PM   
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like many of us out there, I've long put up with all the abortion restrictions that have come to pass not that I'm in favor of any of them. But let me ask some of you out there this. Do you people realize that in a lot of states, even blue ones like Vermont, there are plenty of barriers that are more than enough to avoid the need to simply ban abortion outright? It's been like that here in South Dakota and yes I damn well ashamed to see my state drown economically with all the anti-labor anti-union laws allowing corporatists to RAPE the working class in addition to the abortion ban.

But don't expect our state to get out of the mud yet. We do want good Democrats, not the Daschle/Johnson type but people like Herseth who do have some heart for reproductive rights and strong and consistent determination to stand up to "free" trade though I need to check her voting record on the bankruptcy bill which would certainly afflict women and minorities the most.

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Hoist by their own petard
Posted by: Jeanne on Mar 8, 2006 4:21 PM   
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OK, so they will not allow termination of pregnancy in case of incest. Will not the DNA of the resulting infant offer proof positive of paternity, and therefore, guilt? Won't this assure the absolute ability of State prosecutors to obtain convictions and send the pervert(s) to jail for the rest of their lives? Or, is incest only a misdemeanor in SD?

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» That will be taken care of Posted by: Swatopluk
The New Movement for Anti-Ejaculators or Pro-Sperms - Jismism
Posted by: sln70 on Mar 8, 2006 5:24 PM   
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Check it out at:

Jismism

Why ask women to carry this burden? Life begins in the scrotum.

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» Drown them? Wha? Posted by: sln70
» RE: no, no , no rover Posted by: saywhat?
» RE: no, no ,no rover Posted by: saywhat?
It is not the same
Posted by: owleyes on Mar 8, 2006 8:08 PM   
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The gag rule is bad, yes. But South Dakota didn't ban talking about abortion and it didn't ban funding abortion. It banned abortion. This is an issue of a different order altogether, something much more serious. I don't mean to take anything away from the US's bad behavior internationally, but the South Dakota ban moves the abortion issue, in one fell swoop, from the domain of talk to the domain of action. That is what's so dire about it.

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Murder
Posted by: Llama11 on Mar 8, 2006 8:25 PM   
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Murder is murder, no two ways about. You're against the death penalty but you're for the murder of unborn babies. Get off your high horse. Not that many women have died in AMERICA because of illegal abortions.

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» RE: Murder Posted by: Pseudo Morals