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Meet the Nativists

By Susy Buchanan and Tom Kim, Intelligence Report. Posted March 2, 2006.


Introducing Rep. Tommy Tancredo, Glenn Spencer and Jim Gilchrist -- the political leaders of a growing xenophobic movement in the United States.
030206_story1
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The Intelligence Report is a project of the Southern Poverty Law Center.

One of them says he'd like to bring nuclear weapons to the border. Another vows to stop the alleged Mexican invasion of Idaho. Several have links to white supremacist hate groups; others are given to dire warnings of horrible diseases, "barbaric" practices, and secret Latino conspiracies to "reconquer" the American Southwest. These are the nativists -- the new crop of activists who are driving the movement that exploded last spring with the Minuteman Project in Arizona, a monthlong effort by armed civilians to seal the border with Mexico.

Along with a whole array of media enablers, they have barged into the nation's consciousness with remarkable success. Some of them, like Minuteman co-founder Jim Gilchrist, have made attempts to win high political office.

Others have contented themselves with trying to build a mass movement. Not all those who have joined the movement are extremists -- many are legitimately concerned about the ability of the nation to absorb large numbers of immigrants, particularly the undocumented. But one thing seems clear: A dangerous mix of nativist intolerance, armed and untrained civilians, and wild-eyed conspiracy theories could easily explode into violence.

The following are three profiles taken from the Intelligence Report's comprehensive review of nativist leaders in America.

Rep. Tom Tancredo
Littleton, Colo.

As the face of the anti-immigration movement in Congress, Colorado Republican Tom Tancredo has enraged countless members of his own party. In 2002, presidential advisor Karl Rove, angered at Tancredo's attacks on President Bush's approach to immigration, told him "never to darken the door of the White House again." Last April, after Bush called armed anti-immigration Minutemen patrolling the Arizona border "vigilantes," Tancredo told the Minutemen that Bush should have to write an apology on a blackboard 100 times, then erase the chalk with his tongue. More recently still, Tancredo endorsed three primary challengers to his Republican House colleagues and even, in California, a Democratic candidate.

None of this seems to bother the man who started the hard-line Congressional Immigration Reform Caucus in 1999. In fact, he has gone from what many consider one outrageous action to another. Campaigning for a Senate candidate in Illinois, he warned that illegal immigrants are "coming here to kill you and to kill me and our families." When a Denver newspaper ran a sympathetic article describing the plight of a high school valedictorian whose family was undocumented, Tancredo sought to have the family found and deported. In a discussion with a radio talk show host last July, he suggested that the United States should "take out" Mecca and other Islamic holy sites if the country is hit by a major terrorist attack launched by Muslims.

Because of his outrageous rhetoric and hard-line views, Tancredo is seen in heroic terms in the anti-immigration world. Barbara Coe, who heads one hate group and belongs to another, says Tancredo is a "gold-plated, card-carrying patriot." Angela "Bay" Buchanan, a hard-right activist, thinks he should run for president. Tancredo received a hero's welcome when he keynoted at an anti-immigration conference attended by 400 activists last Memorial Day weekend.

Tancredo often doesn't sound much different than the activists who spread fears about a supposed secret Mexican plot to reconquer the Southwest. "China is trying to export people," he told one anti-immigration group. "It's a policy for them, a way of extending their hegemony. It's a government-sponsored thing."

Jim Gilchrist
Aliso Viejo, Calif.

Less than a year ago, Jim Gilchrist's vision of the future was plainly apocalyptic. The country, he predicted to one newspaper reporter, will have "100 tribes with 100 languages," a situation from which "mayhem" will result. "I see neighborhood armies of 20 to 40 going out and killing and invading one another," he said. Too many immigrants, he added, could even result in a full-scale civil war -- a situation he suggested might be avoided by inciting a revolution in Mexico.

"Illegal immigrants will destroy this country," Gilchrist said last May. "Every time a Mexican flag is planted on American soil, it is a declaration of war." By late August, Gilchrist wasn't talking like that any more.


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A good idea badly done
Posted by: veive on Mar 2, 2006 12:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These guys are doing what our government should be doing. Instead of taking care of business our government insists on sticking its nose where it isn't wanted or needed. Impeach Bush and get someone in office who's interested in America's viability. Incidentally, that someone ain't Dead-eyed Dick Cheney.

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» RE: A good idea badly done Posted by: Asses of Evil
» RE: A good idea badly done Posted by: SekhmetsatRa
» RE: A good idea badly done Posted by: grndinosaur
» RE: A good idea badly done Posted by: Asses of Evil
» RE: A good idea badly done Posted by: John Rice
» RE: A good idea badly done Posted by: grndinosaur
» RE: A good idea badly done Posted by: grndinosaur
» RE: A good idea badly done Posted by: Asses of Evil
» RE: A good idea badly done Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: A good idea badly done Posted by: Asses of Evil
» old white fat cats Posted by: monkopotamus
Some are sincere, some are yahoos.
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Mar 2, 2006 3:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actually, Patrick Buchanan, nationalist, rails against corporate outsourcing from time to time. Many righty nationalists are anti-corporate, anti-tax, libertarians. Tancredo is just a wingnut who'll say any nonsense that comes into his little brain & he's out for exploitation, nothing else. He was fired from the Reagan administration for stupidity. We have to understand that some of these folks are sincere & have real concerns, others are just opportunists, but they are filling a void as the left hasn't been able to be forceful enough about nationalistic concerns like outsourcing and immigration issues.

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Everybody needs to be part of rebuilding our country
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Mar 2, 2006 4:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Leave it to talk radio, corporations, and righty exploitationists to try to mobilize the disenfranchized white poor & dumb. These people need jobs, hope, help. But then so does the rest of America. We can't leave the folks who want to join these movements behind and expect they won't be enticed by clever idiots like Tancredo.

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corporations won't give up their slave labor force
Posted by: gerdhansel on Mar 2, 2006 7:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Corporations won't give up their slave labor force. They know they can treat illegals like crap and make them work dirt cheap.

Follow the money and you'll get to the real bottom of this matter. This whole argument that they do the jobs Americans won't is a line of bull. They do these menial jobs cheaper than Americans would, and they tolerate inhumane treatment that Americans never would.

Illegals have no recourse. An American can complain to OSHA about unsafe conditions in the workplace. A native can work to organize a union, like "Norma Rae" did.

Corporations know this. That's why they want to keep illegals illegal. The minute they become legal, they can't be treated like animals anymore. Then the corporations will bring in more illegals to fill their greedy demand for slave labor.

This slave labor is the club that corporations like Wal Mart are using to bust unions and drive down wages and benefits for the rest of us.

Unless you inherited wealth, you work for wages. So this means you.

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what happened in Nebraska
Posted by: zooeyhall on Mar 2, 2006 8:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I live in Nebraska in a rural area. In the 60's and 70's, work at the local packing plants paid a VERY good middle-class wage---almost $22/hour in today's money---and they had a strong Union. Sure, it was hard dirty work, but that didn't bother farm kids used to such work and who were anxious for a job over the summer to earn some money. It also provided a good full time job for those who wanted to work hard and move up. I had many farmer/neighbors who got a good income working there.

Well---in the 1980's companies like Tyson cut the wages by 50%, boosted the line from 60 to 200 animals/hour--and then started bringing in Mexican workers (even setting up employment recruiting offices along the border). They busted the local union when it went on strike, and then claimed they "couldn't find enough local workers" to justify their importing of illegals.

So now little towns around here that used to be local farming centers are 60% Mexican. Local Andy Griffith sheriffs have to deal with Mexican drug gangs that make the Bloods and the Crips look like Boy Scouts. We had a bank robbery last year in Norfolk Nebraska (pop. 25000) where a Mexican bank robber killed 5 people in cold blood.

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» I agree with you Posted by: deborama
» I Don't Agree With You Posted by: Welfl
» RE: I agree with you Posted by: Deep
» RE: what happened in Nebraska Posted by: sidewinder
» RE: what happened in Nebraska Posted by: canuckistani
» RE: what happened in Nebraska Posted by: sidewinder
» RE: what happened in Nebraska Posted by: Asses of Evil
Anti-ILLEGAL immigration
Posted by: nosylae on Mar 2, 2006 8:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
DO NOT confuse anti-illegal immigration with anti-immigration. The key word here is illegal. This country was founded on people coming here from other countries, and they should still come here - legally. The Minutemen are trying to discourage illegal aliens from crossing our borders - something our own government refuses to do.

By purposefully leaving the word "illegal" out of the argument, the writer makes it seem that everyone who is anti-illegal alien or anti-illegal immigration is just anti-immigration. That is not the case. Resident aliens and legal immigrants all have tax ID #s so they pay taxes on their meager wages. They pay to send their kids to our schools. They pay to use our social systems and hospitals. Illegal aliens and illegal immigrants do not. We should not encourage any sort of illegal immigration in this country.

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» RE: Anti-ILLEGAL immigration Posted by: grndinosaur
» RE: Anti-ILLEGAL immigration Posted by: kkinder
» RE: Anti-ILLEGAL immigration Posted by: kkinder
» RE: Anti-ILLEGAL immigration Posted by: agarcia
Isn't it ironic
Posted by: Deep on Mar 2, 2006 9:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that tancredo spouts about illegal immigrants coming over to " kill you and to kill me and our families." yet, he represents a district that's best known for a high school massacre carried out by two white boys.

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» RE: Isn't it ironic Posted by: Keyboard Commando
» Jews aren't white? since when? Posted by: deborama
» RE: Isn't it ironic Posted by: FedUp
shades of grey
Posted by: marcinde on Mar 2, 2006 9:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On the issue of immigration, it seemed so cut and dried when I lived in New England. Liberal=pro-immigration, right? Then I moved to San Diego, and the same job I made $14/hr for in Massachussetts paid $7/hr. Hmm. Then I lived in Phoenix for six years. I still see the human side, I have good friends who came here illegally. All I'm saying is, that if you think you're either pro-open borders or you're an a**hole, go spend some time in a border state. I'm still figuring out the answer myself. How do we balance doing what's right for the world with what's right for the nation?

Like many others here, I tend to think in absolutes. I'm just pointing out that this is a much muddier issue than you realize once you're in the thick of it.

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» RE: shades of grey Posted by: kkinder
What are the Causes of Mexican Immigration?
Posted by: droscify on Mar 2, 2006 9:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
rarely is the question asked why immigration from Mexico to the United States occurs at such a high rate. Most people seem inclined to focus on the imigration solely which is just a symtom of the poverty in much of Mexico. Anyone who's been to any part of Mexico outside of tourist destinations would be able to tell you that life is not easy there in any sense of the word. Many hard no source of potable water or electricity and many Mexican's live in what are essentially shacks made from scrap materials with dirt, or if one can save the money, concrete floors. It is not hard to imagine, then, why a person living in poverty in Mexico might want to come to the United States in search of a better life. Anyone who can't see the plight of those who illegally travel from Mexico to the US has both no heart and no brain

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These delusional clowns are dupes
Posted by: sausage on Mar 2, 2006 9:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah, they're bigots, racist and idiots. But useful idiots. They're doing their part to keep the drug trade in business and the Mexican economy afloat. They're the cat's paw to keep the American public in the dark about the extent of the American investor class's involvement in the drug trade, NAFTA and the imminent collapse of the Mexican economy if drugs were ever legalized.

Charles Bowden: The United States wants a stable Mexico. Mexico is economically dependent on narco dollars to survive. If you could actually shut down the border and stop the importation of drugs into this country, Mexico would collapse. So it’s a show war.

BuzzFlash: What about the argument that they now have increased economic power in petro-dollars?

Charles Bowden: The Mexican oil fields are in severe decline. They’re nationalized and run by one of the most corrupt mechanisms in Mexico – Petroleos Mexicanos, also known as Pemex. Mexico makes more money from drugs than they do from oil, tourism, and the remittances sent back by illegal Mexicans working here. They earn at least $50 billion a year now from selling drugs. They simply can’t live without it. You have to understand the Mexican economy is 4% the size of the United States' economy. Fifty billion dollars is big money in an economy of that size.

BuzzFlash.com interview with author Charles Bowden

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It's funny
Posted by: Uncle Tupelo on Mar 2, 2006 9:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
80 years ago my great-grandaddies dressed up in white hoods to keep out the likes of people with names like "Tancredo." Now the Tancredos are railing against the Gonzalezes.

I say, rather than casting blame on the people who come here looking for a better life for themselves and their families, we figure out what our corporations have done to those people and their land that made them pack up and leave in the first place. Blaming the problems associated with immigration on the immigrants themselves seems like a chickensh*t thing to do.

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» RE: It's funny Posted by: kkinder
Wrong Trail.....Again
Posted by: FedUp on Mar 2, 2006 9:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Things were so simple and wonderful, back in the "good ol' days", when Sue Ellen and Brad would spend their summers working at the meat-packing plant to earn some money. Wages were decent, and all problems could be solved in 30 minute episodes of Leave it to Beaver.
Fast-forward to today's world, and things are certainly different.
Unemployment is higher than the pundits in D.C. claim. Foreign competition is greater than ever and the worker is getting less for the dollar.
So, who is to blame? Illegal immigrants? First generation immigrants, that somehow manage to get by with less? Union-busters?
So, into this national mess come the likes of Tancredo, Spencer & Gilchrist. They're here to tell us of the imminent doom that unfettered immigration is having on the American Way, and the solution is to stop them at the border - forcibly, if necessary, and round up the ones that are here and ship them back. OK - this is supposed to happen in a country that can't find one tall Saudi dragging a dialysis machine!
People; that unwholesome trio is a posse chasing the wrong enemy!
Your enemy is on "K" Street in D.C.!!
Corporate America allows this to happen, while you suckers get whipped into a frenzy by xenophobes!
Their cousins are doing the same in England, Germany, France, Italy, Russia and Austria! Whenever an economy tanks, the immigrant is the scapegoat; remember Hitler?
So, go to your rooms, take off you shoes and clothes; now look at the labels and countries of origin - that's right, you are an accessory to the crime.
Have you stopped shopping at the GAP?, Wal-Mart?, J.Crew?, Abercrombie?, Banana Republic?, Kate Spade?, Nike? Adidas?
No, you haven't. You're giving your money to "Corporate America" so they can fund overseas sweatshops.
Get a spine; make them accountable by boycotting them! Make them return those industries to the U.S.!
Stop buying cheap, foreign-made goods! Oh, and get comfortable with your nudity, or whip out the Singer Sewing Machine! As long as you want it cheap and plentiful, Corporate America is going to stay overseas.
Stop eating Tyson Chicken!
Become as insular as you feel you need to be, to stop the bleeding of your economy.
Only a delusional nut-case believes that there is some "Latíno Conspiracy", and that all illegals are working as some well-oiled machine, to take over the United States. That's right, run that thru your brain for a minute. Millions of people, from twenty-one nations, representing different races, ethnicities within ethnicities, different religions, and old animosities, are now coming together to over-run the U.S., like some trained army.
The trained army is on "K" Street, and it's not working for you or the immigrant.
And to the poster about the Nebraska bank heist: go back a few decades, and the names were Bonnie & Clyde, Butch Cassidy, Jesse James, Pretty Boy Floyd, etc. You get my meaning.

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» RE: Wrong Trail.....Again Posted by: hirondelle
» RE: Wrong Trail.....Again Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Wrong Trail.....Again Posted by: Asses of Evil
» RE: Wrong Trail.....Again Posted by: agarcia
US Currency Influx is #1 GDP in Mexico
Posted by: ravengrrrl on Mar 2, 2006 10:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Too bad all the doers-and-shakers of Central and South America are fleeing to the US. They could instill some great changes in their countries. Those governments know it. They happily allow their people to leave to the US and send $$ back to family in these C and S Am countries.

Its not a healthy cycle for any community.

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Outsourcing the Border - to Dubai, perhaps?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Mar 2, 2006 10:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hey, if we are going to let Dubai compaines run our ports (and keep their business records overseas) why don't we contract out the border to Mexico? Perhaps they would have greater interest in keeping their workforce at home then the US does; of course we'd have to find someone to pick all the strawberries - do you want to spend all day hunched over in the sun picking baskets? Perhaps a Chinese company could take over Border Patrol functions - this is the era of globalization, after all.. okay- I'm plagiarizing from Dick J. Reavis - google it for more...

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Hey, these guys are not really natives
Posted by: goldgrif on Mar 2, 2006 10:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These interesting individuals are not natives, or children of children of natives, they are invaders. Cultures evolve, move, grow, and die....
America is getting what it deserves with Bush et al. WE whiteshave done a bang up job in the world. WE westerners did great with economics, enviroment, social issues (heck look at the Marriage/Divorce rates.)
These walking vaccums are afraid, maybe right so, maybe not...

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» EXACTLY! Posted by: stuck_in_FL
» RE: XACTLY! Posted by: klaus_in_ohio
buddy
Posted by: collins101 on Mar 2, 2006 11:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Think about where all this immigration is heading.
we are so over populated, before you know it this country will be looking like China. We can't save the world but let's try to save the little space we have left.

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» RE: buddy Posted by: Kym525
Borders are Nothing but Arbirary Lines on a Map
Posted by: Radicalizer on Mar 2, 2006 11:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems to me to be incredible that the person who compiled this article would lash out at Minuteman-esque individuals and groups for having these ideas while at the same time acknowledging that "Others have contented themselves with trying to build a mass movement. Not all those who have joined the movement are extremists -- many are legitimately concerned about the ability of the nation to absorb large numbers of immigrants, particularly the undocumented."

Pardon me, but is that not the logic used by the Minutemen as well, that the U.S. would not be able to "withstand" an influx of immigrants and that the very fabric of this so-called great country would subsequently dissolve? I fail to see the difference between a "legal" and an "illegal" immigrant. The only difference is that one group of individuals is granted permission to enter by some higher authority that supposedly acts on our behalf. No one really knows how or why decisions are made. By stating that it is OK to have concerns about "illegal" immigrants, AlterNet is basically saying it's OK to have xenophobic tendancies and a mistrust of anyone who may look, think, or behave differently from us.

The borders of nation states are constantly being redefined as a result of wars, disintegrating federations, etc., so why should people be beholden to these arbitrary social constructions (especially since the free-movement of capital and coporations under the guise of the "globalized economy" is seen as something positive)? These concepts do nothing but play into the hands of the rich and powerful, as they are able to draw support from those they are dominating under the guise of having something in common with them, a concern for their "nation".

For example, people are more fearful of poor Mexican workers trying to make a living for themselves and their families by working in slavery-like conditions in Florida or California than people like Kenneth Lay, Bernard Ebbers, and Jeff Skilling, who have done far more damage to "American society" than the thousands of migrant workers who flock to "the land of the free" in search of a better life. I would be willing to wager that the "average American" has way more in common with the Chinese factory worker, the Indian farmer, and the "illegal" Mexican immigrant than with any of the suits and ties that run our governments and corporations, yet it is these powerful figures that are able conjure up support by proporting to defend the nation from unseen (and often imaginary) threats.

If AlterNet is really concerned about the plight of immigrants in this country, than it should call reservations about ANY kind of immigration what it is; a racist and xenophobic fear of the unknown and the "other". Humanity existed long before the creation of states and governments; we are all citizens of the world, not of nations.

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» Ahistorical nonsense! Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Ahistorical nonsense! Posted by: Radicalizer
» RE: Ahistorical nonsense! Posted by: FedUp
Here's how they do it...
Posted by: mcthfg on Mar 2, 2006 12:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's a horrible myth that makes these men as powerful as they are, and that's the myth that there isn't enough food, water, money, education, or whatever for everyone.

This is a lie. If we stop spending money on killing and spend money on things that help people live better lives, there will be plenty for everyone. These horrid little men thrive off this concept, and help feed the "me first" mentality that drives all republican and most democratic politics.

Although I'm not religious, I'd like to tell a short story. It's not mine, but I'll put it in the first person -

One night I had a dream of hell. I dreamed that everyone had long forks for hands. There were tables of food, but the forks were too long to reach people's mouths. They could stab the food, but not manuever it to their mouths.

The next night, I had a dream of heaven. Everyone still had forks for hands, and the forks were still too long to feed themselves. Instead, everyone was feeding the person across from them at the table.

Anyone who says we can't do the exact same thing right here on earth is only thinking of themselves, and lying to boot. No ifs, ands or buts. We can care for everyone - it's just the people in charge choose not to make it a national priority.

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Times are a changing folks,lets change with them.
Posted by: starvinmarvy on Mar 2, 2006 12:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hey fellow Americans! Without going into a big time rant about what I think needs done...let me basically summerize.
At first I also was angry at illegal immigration. While in the
Seabees in Oxnard Calif in the late 70`s...they were there.
On my last visit to Calif a yr ago..I came to the conclusion
that if they were to deport all Mexicans...this country would go hungry! They work all the produce fields all through Calif.
Cheep labor! This is the reason they will always be here..regardless of all the kicking and screaming we may do.
SO...my suggestion.........to welcome them into our society
to help us all unite as struggling working middle class, blue collar workers,trying to raise our families in current HOSTILE
govenment administrative policies.....to come together as a
human race against FASISM ...against elected government
representatives who side with the corporations,insurance industry,pharmaceutical companies...instead of us..the people
...who`s pockets are picked for money relentlessly!!
Why don`t we just all try and somehow all come together
with the same basic idealolgy...unite as one ...and just maybe
.....maybe....change the course of our dark future!!!

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IMAGINE All the People ... Sharing all the Earth ... well ...
Posted by: AdamSelene40 on Mar 2, 2006 12:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess you gotta be careful what you sing for ... eh?

Of course, back when John Lenon was alive we sort of figured that the "World Would Live as One" under a Utopian Beatleocracy for the benifit of the The People ... we did not expect that "Sharing all the Earth" would be administered by
coyotes and labor trafficers for the benefit of Employers.

But when we remember how the United States acquired Texas and California in the first place ... (The Mexican Republic was in a weak position to enforce it's land use and citizenship laws on the Anglo- Protestant settlers) ... there's a rough justice involved in this 'conquest by migration'.

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Meet the heros.
Posted by: NatavistNative on Mar 2, 2006 2:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

When a Denver newspaper ran a sympathetic article describing the plight of a high school valedictorian whose family was undocumented, Tancredo sought to have the family found and deported.


Actually, Tancredo didn't do that. The Denver Post printed a story about the high school student on the front page of their Sunday edition emphasizing that the family was illegally in the U.S. One of Tancredo's constituents called him and asked why immigration laws were not being enforced. Tancredo then did what a congressman should do, i.e. he attempted to find the answer to the person's question by calling the local INS (as it was called then) and asked what the policy was. Tancredo never formally or informally requested deportation of this family, although the Denver Post may have made it look that way. The point being that if one aspect of this story is an exaggeration, then others may be as well.


My number one concern is and always has been excessive population growth. I supported organizations like Zero Population Growth and Negative Population Growth before immigration was much of an issue or concern. In fact, back in the 1970s the nation as a whole realized that we couldn't sustain population growth without wrecking the environment, depleting our natural resources, wiping out wildlife habitat, putting more animals in factory farms, and generally lowering our quality of life. There was a general voluntary consensus to limit family size. That, along with technology advances meant we almost "had it made" where we would have a source of plenty for all while still preserving the environment. Then Ted Kennedy got the 1964 Immigration Act passed which opened the door to massive legal immigration (although he said it wouldn't do that), political correctness stifled discussion on the topic of population growth, and business leaders got greedy realizing that they could import cheap labor and have more suckers to buy their products and pocket more money.

Immigration advocates are promoting infinite population growth and that is just impossible. If we can't say "no" now to immigration because of some moral dictate, then we can never say "no" however bad it gets. Apparently, their solution, if any, is to allow all immigrants to come until conditions in the U.S. equal those of the worse place on the planet and then the immigrants will no longer want to come. The immigrants who most want to come here are from countries with the highest population densities and/or population growth. We don't solve the problem by allowing them to come, we just spread the problem. Shouldn't the ones who created the problem be most responsible for solving the problem rather than being allowed to dump it on us?

I can't sell out to either corporate greed or political correctness. It's the effect and consequences that immigration has for 5, 10, 20 years in the future that matters most, not having a little more money today or having some warm fuzzy feeling of superiority obtained by calling somebody a racist, xenophobe, Nazi, or whatever the most current term might be. A Natavist, according to my dictionary, just seems to be one who put the needs of his/her neighbors and fellow countrymen ahead of the needs of those farther away. I don't see anything wrong or immoral about that. Most all groups and countries do it -- so what? Plus, I think we have the best overall ideas for sustainability -- or at least we once did and those are the ideas I want to support. I think the SPLC is in denial or ignoring the consequences or they just like to call people names. So, I'll stick with the Natavists or whatever the SPLC chooses to call them.

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» RE: Meet the heros. Posted by: Asses of Evil
» RE: Meet the heros. Posted by: Phenix
» RE: Meet the heros. Posted by: Asses of Evil
» RE: Meet the heros? Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» RE: Meet the heros. Posted by: dlf
Imperialism and Immigration, two faces of the same coin.
Posted by: axandrade on Mar 2, 2006 3:03 PM   
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people come to the states because mexico cannot offer economic opportunties that the US can. That is the reason, period. Why can't Mexico do this? Well is it a) because they are incapable of picking up their bootstraps and rid themselves of corrupt and instable governance? is it b) their race and cultural heritage does not account for entrepreneurship and protestant work ethic
If you picked a, you are wrong, if you picked b you are also wrong.
Mexico cannot offer opportunities because ever even before Mr. Polk decided that half of her territory would look good on a US map, mexico has suffered the intervention of foreign powers. Often under the guise of "aid".

The current way of doing this is "free trade" where Mexico is to open its markets and offer its cheap labor (on the condition that it remains cheap) to compianies while importing subsidized US corn sold below cost. Agriculture goes to hell and emigration looks good. Especially when looking at the US through the wonderful brochures of American culture that come in movies, McDonalds, etc. that make it ever so attractive. in the eyes of the Latin American who knows no better, the US looks like Walt DIsney World where the only black people rap and play basketball.
The IMF and WOrld Bank give money, with the condition of cutting social programs that lead to genuine development, to the complicitous elites of LAtin American countries, and get the governments stuck in e(x)ternal debt.
The argument is that well it's the elites fault, and it is, but they are the most receptive group to the US culture and entertainment machine, and want to be like the US or Europe, a curious inferiority complex that is often racialized.

SO blame NAFTA, corporate welfare, the IMF, the World Bank and the world's economic elite for immigration. NOt the poor Mexican worker who comes to manicure gardens.


And for an interesting twist of fate, just call it labor liberalism, Mexico its using its comparative advantage of producing cheap labor to get the profit in terms of remittances. I am particularly fond of the irony.

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this is good but 20 years late so wake up fred an company
Posted by: john henry on Mar 2, 2006 5:47 PM   
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now back in the 80s a think tank looked at the usa after year 2000 kill the big companys an farming an now this gets good that the southwest half the working people numbers will double by 2015 they will be brown so everthing south of the masion dixon line will be old usa now the leader of the world put the meaning of third world as everthing south of the md. line an the companys will build there for the cheap labor now this will settle the proble an then we the people will get feeded up with this an the guns will come out an we will take our county back from everbody but less wait for the right time an remenber our contus.

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Ever eaten lettuce? Thank an illegal immigrant.
Posted by: daveinchi on Mar 2, 2006 6:38 PM   
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Fruit? Any fruit that was grown in this country?

Thank an illegal immigrant.

Tomotoes?

Grapes?

Any wine drinkers in the house?

Thank illegal immigrants. Y'ever eaten at a restaurant? (you know, where you don't have to do the dishes?).

Thank an illegal immigrant.

Beef?
Most meat products?

Largely provided by people who are illegal immigrants. Our entire food economy is based on a certain amount of slave laborers who are willing to work for next to nothing. If all the illegal immigrant were deported, and "real American" workers had to start working, they'd have to make minimum wage, and food costs would skyrocket.

Have more legal, non-citizen workers would be the right thing to do here - not persecution, which is almost never the right thing to do.

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» Reality Economics Posted by: Velos
fedup
Posted by: Nitasu on Mar 2, 2006 7:00 PM   
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Sounds like keyboard commando is one the dumbed down americans. I did not know that anyone thought Jews were colored. The ultimate in ignorance.

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Anti-illegal immigration
Posted by: Rod in 83706 on Mar 2, 2006 7:01 PM   
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You can (and should) be anti-illegal immigration without being racist. This country is overpopulated.

You can (and should) be anti-immigration without being racist. This country is overpopulated.

A sustainable quality of life requires a sustainable quantity of life.

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» RE: Anti-illegal immigration Posted by: Radicalizer
Various....../
Posted by: FedUp on Mar 2, 2006 8:12 PM   
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First; to NatavistNative.
If I understand your post correctly, or at least my interpretation is that, sense of responsibility,or interest, ends at the borders of the U.S. If I may, it's that insular stance by the people of the U.S., that actually feeds the ever-increasing wave of immigration.
If you don't seriously examine the driving force behind abandoning a country, with all the ties that define and distinguish people from one another, then all developed countries are doomed to a cycle of mass immigration, because the exploited peoples of the world, sooner or later, want a piece of the pie.
Now I know that seems simplistic, but the point is, that if you want poeple to stay away, and many of them want to stay away, then allowing them a quality of life, if not equal to yours, then at least better than contaminated water, crop failures, no basic services, starvation etc. That is the moral due of those that sense, and rightly so, that they have languished in some third-world penal colony, as facilitators of the developed world.

"axandrade" is correct; how can North Americans expect Latínos, or anyone for that matter, to not want to try their luck in the U.S., when all they see in glossy magazines, is corporate America extolling the "good life" and attainable how it is, if you buy their product? If a Zambian looks at glossy rag that promises so much, then looks at the dismal existence of Zambia, as sure as Monday follows Sunday, he's going to come here.
So, instead of pouring 400 BILLION of your taxes dollars into a father & son feud, put the under-developed world on a better footing.
Small, loans to entrepreneurs has done more than charity, and has helped people through out the world take care of themselves, without making the trek to the U.S. Make their world a better place.
It's far wiser money than erecting a fence; all fences fail.

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Lifeboat for 20 Cannot Hold 50 and Counting
Posted by: Welfl on Mar 3, 2006 12:08 AM   
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Most of us have seen images on TV of overloaded "refugee" boats sinking under the weight of their excess passengers. That wouldn't stop good samaritans from inviting all those extra people aboard anyway. I'd probably feel the urge myself.

With that sentiment in mind, please read this very sobering editorial by Paul Craig Roberts, a Bush-hating, economist. The second paragraph is just the tip of the iceberg. Here it is:

"Job growth over the last five years is the weakest on record. The US economy came up more than 7 million jobs short of keeping up with population growth. That’s one good reason for controlling immigration. An economy that cannot keep up with population growth should not be boosting population with heavy rates of legal and illegal immigration."

A few paragraphs later, Roberts adds, "The total number of private sector jobs created over the five year period is 500,000 jobs less than one year’s legal and illegal immigration!"

By all means, my fellow good samaritans, let's keep inviting more and more people onto our sinking lifeboat.

If you doubt Roberts' credentials or the fact that he despises Bush, read this editorial: Would Someone Please Interfere in Our Elections?

Or this one: Blind Ignorance

Or this one: Who Will Save America? My Epiphany

There are many other Roberts editorials at CounterPunch.

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The Other Questions Never Asked
Posted by: dlf on Mar 3, 2006 5:58 AM   
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Look the problem lies in both our corporate/business class and the government who works with them. This link shows there is actually something to protect American jobs but, Americans have been trained to repeat the "Jobs Americans Won't Do Line." We play into the hands of both industry and government by remaining ignorant of our rights and not exercising them. When was the last time the gentleman in Nebraska saw an ad for employment at that meat packing plant? These employers are in violation of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act because they now only rely on their immigrant help to supply them with labor. That means they are effectively cutting Americans out of the process, which is discrimination. Everytime one of these stories comes out Americans should be asking the reporters how many Americans have applied for these jobs, how many were interviewed, and how many hired. If they don't know the answer to those questions they are simply spreading more propaganda, and inciting people by calling anyone who disagrees with their pronouncements xenophobic.

As a Black person I found it very interesting that they would try to make me angry about this issue by invoking George Wallace and other racists. Personally, I know that this issue will attract people of different stripes for different reasons, that has no bearing on whether it is a valid issue or not.

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good to see some people here who know what is going on
Posted by: cry0fan on Mar 5, 2006 2:16 AM   
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the mass immigration scam is yet another exploitation scheme to strip wealth from the working class American citizen and put wealth in the pockets of the upper class. I am talking about both illegal and legal immigration here.

And this is the most treasonous exploitation scheme the elite have cooked up yet. What really makes me sick about it is how the elite have made the American Left a fauxleft that is centered around inculcating Race Guilt into white Democrats. This race guilt is how the elite manage to paralyze most Dems from taking action to stop mass immigration.

If a liberal says or thinks something Bad about the current mass immigration scam, then he or she is accused of being a racist.

I think the the elite (the politicians, the megacorporation CEOs, the mass media figures, the lobbyists, the rich political donors, etc) who have foisted this mass immigration scheme on us, are all guilty of treason. And I think they should be indicted, tried and convicted of treason. And if found guilty, sentenced as traitors should be.

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This is really about lowering wages and busting unions
Posted by: truthteller on Mar 5, 2006 1:20 PM   
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I agree with the comments by those who see the underhanded opening of our borders for what it is - the dilution of the labor market and the elimination of good union jobs. In many areas of the Country, most construction jobs have gone from being held by union workers born or legally in this country to illegal immigrants. The fact that illegals concentrate in industries like meat-packing, that are traditionally union, but s