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Not That Innocent

By Gwynne Watkins, Nerve.com. Posted February 14, 2006.


The author of a new book about virginity discusses the -- ahem -- ins and outs of America's obsession with sexual 'purity.'
021406_story2
Not That Innocent

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Laura M. Carpenter's landmark study, Virginity Lost, appears at a time when being a virgin, incredibly, might be a marker of coolness.

Pro-abstinence programs like Silver Ring Thing, marketing virginity to teens the way Adidas markets sneakers, are building a critical mass of popularity and appeal. But the salience of virginity has moved beyond the teenage have-you-or-haven't-you gossip mill, becoming a cultural touchstone debated in the halls of Congress and pages of Us Weekly. Can virginity really swing elections, boost Nielsen ratings and be sold for several thousand dollars on eBay? We spoke to Carpenter about the state of the American cherry.

Gwynne Watkins: Let's talk about Britney Spears. Why did we as a culture care if she was a virgin?

Laura M. Carpenter: Partly because she symbolizes our daughters and sisters. But we also want to see hubris come to a bad end. There's been such a love-hate relationship with her. The idea of hypocritical innocence -- that's how she gets interpreted. You don't believe she's really pure at heart because you think it's a marketing ploy, so you want to see her get her comeuppance.

GW: For progressives who are against abstinence-only sex ed, has her downfall been particularly appealing?

LMC: I think for progressives, that's what it's been about. All the people who invested themselves in her, and were like, "We hope she stays this role model [for virgins], otherwise our kids are all going to run out and have sex when they find out that she has." That's if you believe that celebrities have that direct an affect on behavior. I don't think they do.

GW: But you do write that mass media reinforces beliefs that are fostered by friends, family and social groups.

LMC: That's pretty much the finding on a lot of things, drinking and smoking and so forth.

GW: Has television's portrayal of virginity changed in the past twenty years?

LMC: I think so. Like that TV show "Family" that was on in the mid '70s. Kristy McNichol was on it. Lief Garrett played her boyfriend. The characters thought about having sex together, but didn't. And now you've got all these teen shows, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" being my favorite of the genre. It has a great virginity-loss story. The "gift" metaphor loomed large in that show.

GW: Right, you write that people tend to see virginity loss in three ways: as a gift, a stigma or a learning process. Is there a type of person you associate with each? Can you look at someone in a restaurant and think to yourself, "Definitely a learning processor?"

LMC: [laughs] Wouldn't that be great?

GW: You talk about "gifters" giving it away gradually, in stages -- a very capitalist method of stretching your dollar (your virginity) as far as possible, much like Britney did.

LMC: Yeah. Sociologists who study gift-giving have often pointed out that we talk about gifts as if they're voluntary and entirely different from economic transactions, but are they really?

If I give you an iPod for Christmas and you give me a box of paper clips, what does that mean about our relationship?

GW: And because the price of the gift of virginity is so high, gifters are the most likely to stay with an abusive partner who they lost their virginity to.

LMC: Yes. If you've transferred a precious part of yourself to somebody, then in leaving them, you've left behind this special thing that you could only give to one person.

GW: "Learning process" virgins, on the other hand, treat their first time having sex as an intellectual exercise and tend to be from middle-class, well-educated families. Why?

LMC: The "processors" are pretty curious about sex. Whereas the "stigmatists" are so desperate not to be virgins that they're not willing to wait for someone who might be, you know, pleasant to do it with, the processors can wait. They're not desperate. If their parents have been to college, they were likely exposed to the sociological idea that losing your virginity is a rite of passage. They went to really good schools that had progressive sex education.


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As if?
Posted by: Lincoln fan on Feb 14, 2006 3:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You see it in "women and children first," as if they're somehow more valuable than everyone else.

It is logical that for the continuation of the species women and children are more valuable than men. Hence this "instinct". It is obvious that the life of a 16 year old male just entering his prime is more valuable than a 70 year old man who is past his.

One man could easily keep 50 women continually pregnant therefore in a society where the sexes are numerically equal for every 100 women there are 98 superfluous men.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: As if? Posted by: gar
» RE: As if? Posted by: Bette
» Agreed. Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: As if? Posted by: Jesse
» RE: As if? Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: As if? Posted by: bettsoff
» RE: As if? Posted by: Lincoln fan
» if only Posted by: bsbremmer
» RE: As if? Posted by: Wacre
» 2 cents Posted by: bsbremmer
a little reframing here....
Posted by: xenacat on Feb 14, 2006 7:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I vehmently disagree that virginity has become "cool" among the high school kids. Anyone who works in the educational system with them realizes that while they pay it lip service (ahem), they don't buy into it the way the adults fantasize they do. Citing TV shows as reflective of what is really happening in society is misguided and quite dangerous. All these show do is confuse and create hypocrisy among teenagers and the brunt of that largely punishes the girls. To be blunt - the abstinence/virginity crap is seen by the kids for what it is - pure fear of sexuality by certian folks and they are very resentful of the attempts to severely dictate thier behaviors in such a personal area. Unfortunately, they do not have the tools yet to find accurate information about sexuality or not be adversely effected by "do as I say and not as I do" routine feed to them by cowardly adults. Anything less than giving the young folks accurate information and frank discussion is failing them utter and completely. We've all done that in spades by quietly rolling over and playing dead in face of the religous jihad now in progress against sexuality. Sex ony with in the context of marriage does not somehow make one magically more moral. Again, we have allowed the religous right wing nuts to frame the debate. How about telling them the truth and not playing along with the "virginity is now cool" fantasy? Society would be the better for it.

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» RE: a little reframing here.... Posted by: dumpsterBaby
---
Posted by: pixiequix on Feb 14, 2006 7:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When you get right down to it, there is a human hormonal reaction to something percieved as occupying less height, overall mass, age, strength, etc. The hypothalamus of the human brain releases the hormone oxytocin along with vasopressin from the posterior pituitary. Together they stimulate certain smooth muscle, constrict certain blood vessels and facilitate the sensitivity of some tissues to other hormones and nerves. Particularly the area around breasts (both sexes) and erectile tissue (both sexes), among others.
What this process creates in the end is the "give" or "let down" reflex. This reaction is noticable when a kitten "mews"
or when your lover climaxes. It's sort of like nature's empathy.

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Yeah right
Posted by: Allison on Feb 14, 2006 8:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The Clinton-Lewinsky scandal that was blamed for an alleged epidemic of teenage oral sex."

It sure was blamed... but that's a load of crap. I'm pretty sure the REAL reason it's so popular is that it feels good and there's zero risk of pregnancy. Both assets to your typical teen orgasm afficionado, I'm sure.

The Clinton thing might have removed some of the stigma of TALKING about it, I'll concede that...

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Fundamentalist view of virginity used to be an economic issue
Posted by: kokun on Feb 14, 2006 9:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just finished reading several articles about the whole cartoon bedlam, and now this interesting discussion. I kept coming back to the original reasons for a particular issue being included in and enforced by any religious tradition. In the case of the Islam's prohibiton of images it was supposedly to prevent idol warship. Interestingly, there's actually no language in the Khoran brohibiting images of the prophet.

In the case of virginity it was actually an economical issue long before reliable contraceptives were availabe. In a patriarchical society the only way to ensure that the offspring were actually fathered by the husband (who had the resources to inherit) was to make sure that the woman was 'untouched' before marriage. That's where the curious customs of publicly displaying bloody sheets come from. And since religion and power have been very close for most of the human history these rules have been internalized and propagated to the point that now they are seen as having divine virtue rather than being an economic necessity from long ago.
This is one of the major issues I have with orginized religions. With their insistanse on the divine origins and absolute infalability of their respective books the religious fundamentalists conviniently forget the fact that the material they are using to structure their lives (and try to force onto others) is a collection of myths, stories, social, political, and economic rules from many different societies, written, reviewed, changed by many different people, with various, sometimes competing interests, from many different centuries. During most of Christian history the vast majority of followers were illiterate, they did not have libraries, magazines, or the internet. The only source of the societal knowledge like rules of conduct was the church. And that is why we have these interesting notions about working on Sunday, wearing clothing with mixed fibers, and preserving ones virginity.

God doesn't care what you eat, what you wear, and wether or not you have sex. You can do whatever you want but stop telling others how to live their lives.

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I don't know if population growth or nuclear weapons is our greatest enemy
Posted by: Sojourner on Feb 14, 2006 9:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Being an optimist, I'll worry about overpopulation. Having lived through the last seven decades, one radical difference is increased willingness to talk openly about human sexuality. (Thank you, Freud, all sexologists, for the cover of science, along with contraception.)

Never having lived in another culture, I have learned my WASP attitudes, and talk of virginity (by a male), are a kind of perversion. Congratulations to Chavez of Brazil who defies both Bush and the RC church by freely distributing condoms.

By portraying satisfying as well as ugly sex (the latter predominantly, unfortunately), XXX films have expanded school sex education into the real world.

What still needs to be made clear is the problem of love. Hollywood prospers on our lack of understanding. Since psychological counseling amounts to love counseling, it is being worked on. Especially since there the distinction between being immature and grown up is taken seriously.

Growing up happens when one no longer blames others for one's destiny. That's the mark of mental health, a difficult goal.

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Circle Jerk
Posted by: Talpone on Feb 14, 2006 11:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm all for virginity - come on guys, let's have a circle jerk!

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» RE: Circle Jerk Posted by: pixiequix
» Thanks but no thanks... Posted by: Allison
» RE: Thanks but no thanks... Posted by: Llama11
It is what is, virginity as a "gift" is ridiculous
Posted by: janisw on Feb 14, 2006 8:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I could not even finish reading this article, with all it's discussion about what virginity means, is it a gift, isn't it a gift, the three classifications. It's all madness when discussed this way.

I had sex because I wanted to when I wanted to. I did not dissect it into who was worthy of my virginity. That's an analysis that must drive this writer and her supporters into a frenzy. Who's worhty? Who's not? In addition to self esteem issues. Why not just have sex with a person you have selected as a someone you want to have sex with, regardless of whether it's the first time or the 50th time?

Sex is a need just like food, clothing, shelter and income. It need not take on this huge expectation aspect. Have sex if you want, don't if you are not ready. Buy a house if you want, don't if you are not ready. Paint the room purple if you are ready, don't if you are not.

Janis

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