He Who Cleans the Street, Gets the Vote

By Terrence McNally, AlterNet. Posted February 10, 2006.

Editor's Note: This interview took place before the outbreak of protests against the publishing in Europe of cartoons depicting Mohammed.

Following the electoral victory of Hamas in Palestine, I was struck again by how many lives are devoted to beliefs, agendas and passions about which so many of us remain recklessly ill-informed. Reza Aslan, in his book "No god But God: The Origins, Evolution and Future of Islam" (now out in paperback), and in his commentaries, offers insight informed by an understanding of history. Aslan, who was born in Iran, has dedicated himself to developing an alternative to the widely accepted "clash of civilization" theory that pits East against West in an apocalyptic struggle.

TERRENCE McNALLY: The Hamas victory in the Palestinian election may be huge news in terms of its potential repercussions, but it is not a surprise, is it?

REZA ASLAN: I don't think it's a surprise that Hamas won the elections. Everyone assumed that they were going to do well. The surprise is in how soundly they trounced Fatah.

When talking about these elections, it's important to recognize that the victory of Hamas, as hard as it is to swallow in the United States and in Israel, had nothing to do with either America or Israel. Rather, it had everything to do with the situation in the Palestinian territories and, in particular, the 40 years of ineptitude and corruption of the ruling party, Fatah.

If Israel cannot have a peace process until they have a stable democratic partner, you could look at the election of Hamas as a good thing. For the first time, some of the very fundamental issues of Palestinian society may begin to be dealt with. I'm talking about domestic issues, not issues of foreign policy and certainly not issues with regard to Israel.

TM: One of the things I hear underneath your words -- and it's funny to refer to Tip O'Neil when talking about Palestine -- but as O'Neil famously said, "All politics is local."

RA: That's absolutely right, and the fundamental truth of democracy is that he who cleans the street, gets the vote -- and Hamas cleaned the streets. Fatah, despite tens of millions of dollars in foreign aid over the last decade or so, has really done almost nothing for the Palestinian people. Yet some are shocked that they were removed from power.

This is not unique to Palestine. This same situation is taking place in Lebanon with the rise of Hezbollah. It's taking place in Egypt with the rise of the Islamic Brotherhood as a political force. I think we're starting to see that for the first time politics in the Arab world is starting to matter. These stagnant political elites, these autocrats, these presidents-for-life who've been running Arab politics for the past four or five decades are going to have to do something that they've never done before. They are going to have to actually earn their people's votes.

TM: I think it's interesting that in the Bush administration's urgency to bring democracy to the Middle East, so far only the weakest countries have acceded -- Lebanon, Palestine, Iraq.

I have two questions for you. First, when the leaders of countries like Syria, Egypt, or Saudi Arabia see these kinds of results, isn't it likely to harden them against democracy? Or at least, bring home to them the realization that before they allow democracy to take place, they had better do their homework?

Secondly, might the United States realize that the recent elections of a hardliner in Iran and of Hamas in Palestine are more than anything else votes against corruption?

RA: I think that's true across the board. We're talking about the push to democratize this region. For most of the last half-century, our foreign policy has been the exact opposite -- stability over democracy -- and it's much easier, of course, to control one autocrat than it is to control a democratic population. That's why all of our allies in the region are monarchies or autocracies of some sort or another. One can talk about Egypt, but Egypt is a fake republic. Mubarak has been president for more than 30 years, and there's no reason to think that he's going to step down any time soon.

TM: Egypt's recent election only reinforced that, didn't it?

RA: It did, although for the first time other people were actually allowed to run. As one would expect, the best-organized group was a religious opposition group, the Muslim Brotherhood. This isn't surprising. In a society with no room whatsoever for any kind of democratic opposition, where the only free space in society is the mosque, it is only natural for the opposition to the state to form within the religious groups.

This, of course, is not unique to Islam. In all societies in which populations feel marginalized or dispossessed or oppressed by their leaders, they are going to find, within religion, not just solace but the language with which to strike back. This is true whether you're a Catholic in Latin America or a Muslim in Upper Egypt.

TM: Here's a more speculative question. Hamas has been both a violent revolutionary party and a social service network, offering education, medical care, these sorts of things. As democracy begins to emerge and as these religious parties become governing parties, might the populace move them more toward the latter now that they're in power.

Interviewer Terrence McNally hosts Free Forum on KPFK 90.7FM, Los Angeles (streaming at kpfk.org).

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