COMMENTS: 58
Readers Write: 'Child-free' or Just Cranky?
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Readers agreed that it's fine if people don't want to have kids. But they disagreed on how much people without children were missing out, who bore responsibility for kids that already existed, and whether there's any real political issue here at all. But is it OK to make a political issue of it?
Some of us, like Susanh, wonder if the whole idea of people without children "under attack" isn't just a tempest in a teapot, similar to the "war on Christmas." "Are the child-free really being victimized by the opinions of the late pope and like-minded busybodies?"
Some of those without children are also wary of turning their "child-free" status into a movement: "Group identification is not important to me, merely dealing with the realities of life," says Samantha Vines. And Saramarie, who chose not to have kids, just doesn't want to fight about it: "All I want to do is teach and spend my summers being a big kid and happy," she says.
Why does everything have to become a "movement?" Larraine asks. "As far as our society being "kid-centric," that's ridiculous. In fact it is far from it. We celebrate children when it is convenient."
Cielo also finds U.S. culture to be exceptionally child-unfriendly. "Lack of adequate public space in many places has made childhood for many seem like a shut-in lifestyle. Private property is off-limits for those wishing to explore nature. … But the most basic reason I feel it is so difficult for parents and children, even beyond horrid health care, is the expectation for one or two parents to take on all the burden of child raising. … As a 'child-free' person, I'd rather help out parents I know when I can and be a positive influence on their little ones than feel "persecuted" and spend time on another 'movement' of those who have time enough for such pursuits."
Bettsoff agrees: "You don't need to HAVE children to take part in educating and raising them."
But the point, according to some of the "child-free" folks, is they feel they're doing more than their share.
"If I don't even LIKE kids, why should I have to care for them?" Kat14 writes. If I wanted to do that, I'd HAVE one."
And Hiroe chimes in: "If a parent is unable to cope with the full responsibility of work plus kids, that isn't my problem."
But maybe it is. Midge reminds us of our codependence: "People who decide not to have children free up resources for the children of the people who do, and can contribute positively to the society in which the children grow up by contributing to education, health care, the government, arts and entertainment, and science with their money, time or career (of course, parents can make such contributions as well). Giving people the choice as to whether or not to have children ensures that, in many cases, the people who do have children really want it and have their hearts in it. In this way, parents, children and child-free adults can coexist quite peacefully."
And Ruby, who has been on both sides of the fence (first getting her tubes tied and then, years later, having it undone) has this balanced wisdom: "One cannot know the strong feelings for your children and the satisfaction unless you have them. … That said, I wouldn't expect someone to adopt a puppy just because I might like dogs. I applaud those who realize it's not for them and are honest about it."
Lunasol makes perhaps the most compelling rationale for why she's chosen not to have children: "Not having children gives me the opportunity to do more for my community than I could if I had them. I give what money I can to children's programs and scholarships. I happily pay higher taxes that will ensure better schools and benefits for children in the inner city where I live. I watch out for the kids on my street, babysit for neighbors and relatives, volunteer for programs for families. I adore children. And they don't have to be mine for me to love. That's what not having children has given me."
Another reader, who had a child in spite of her gut feeling that she didn't want one, talked about the difficulty of that choice: In a painful and honest response, Patti_S writes: "Motherhood is hard, even when you want a child. … Better to admit [that you don't want a child] than to make a child miserable trying to live up to what other people think your life should be."
And Moosehead makes a similar point in relationship to the rhetoric of reproductive rights: "This is but one of the many things anti-abortion people just don't get about humanity: Until (if ever) you want a child, you're not doing any favors to society (or the child, or God or whoever) by creating a life that you, in your heart, do not want to care for. Parenting is damn hard work, and if you're not thoroughly committed, you simply won't have the patience, kindness, discipline or sense of humor you need to raise another human being."
As Ruby points out, "You can be logical about all the reasons [to have] or not to have children (cost, stress, conditions of the world, freedom), but the heart is a separate entity." And mothersmovement posits: "Spare me the rhetoric about overpopulation/overconsumption versus the duty of social reproduction. I suspect the actual reasons people decide to become parents or remain child-free are far more personal and provocative." Rini agrees: "I have always viewed my two children as a wonderful guilty pleasure, not a duty."
Paxhumana reminds that those with children also bear a responsibility to the community as a whole, not just to their child: "Parenting does not just imply a responsibility to a child, but also to the larger community." Newt adds: "All I can say is if you plan to be a parent, really try to make the world a better place for everyone's kids, not just your own."
Betsoff, at least, has a sense of humor about the whole thing: "I COULD be a parent, but I don't think I'd do a very good job of it. Know what I'm really cut out for? Aunt/unclehood. Know what's REALLY selfish of me? Hoping my brother will want to have kids."
Ann83 reminds us that the whole debate is moot for many people. People who live in places where there are not abortion providers, for example, or who live in religious communities where abortion is not an option. On the other side, there are many who are physically unable to have children. "The whole debate is biased [in favor of] those who grew up with privileged backgrounds," she writes. "People who have children should control them as best they can. People who are child-free should accept that sometimes children in public can be a pain, and just ignore the occasional tantrum."
Underneath many of the comments is the underlying feeling of isolation, raised by muggles5 at the beginning of the discussion. "It seems like the underlying issue behind people's anger over this is the atomization of our culture. … We don't want to have "bump" up against other people's choices."
So it seems the issue isn't about whether or not you have children but how you relate to the larger picture. According to hera62, "The main problem with working parents is that working mothers tend to get the bulk of the burden shifted on their shoulders compared to working fathers. This, in my opinion, is a far larger issue than the perceived inequality between working parents and their child-free colleagues."
Kym,who identifies as a "child-free" 40-year-old woman of color writes, "Both the child-bearing and the child-free communities need to stop bashing each other and to start creating a society in which every child, regardless of race, is sacred and worth loving."
Urstrly has this hope: "What I'd like to see is that we look upon every child born in this country as a national asset, deserving of support and attention, decent housing, good medical care and a first-rate education. I wish some of these childless people would involve themselves with the already born but neglected children who form a sort of national underground."
Finally, Susanh has some advice intended to draw those with and without kids together: "If your pet peeve is people wanting you to have kids, don't take it out on kids. If your main concern is a free and equal society, then parents and kids are your natural allies."
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Posted by: maxpayne on Jan 30, 2006 6:41 AM
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» RE: If you're going to be child-free
Posted by: Sunfell
» RE: If you're going to be child-free
Posted by: Envi
» RE: If you're going to be child-free
Posted by: patti_s
» RE: If you're going to be child-free
Posted by: mysticpal
» RE: If you're going to be child-free
Posted by: CovertRage
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Posted by: Samantha Vimes on Jan 30, 2006 7:42 AM
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It's okay to have kids. It's okay not to have kids. It's important for adults as a whole to make the world a good place for future generations.
Mind you, the quote from me was a bit limited. I have been pressured on the bearing children issue, but I'm happy to say I'm sure enough of myself that it caused nothing but perhaps too strongly worded a rebuke from me. No second thoughts. No niggling self-doubt.
But there are things in my life I wish there was an option on. I've gazed longingly at senior communities. Sure, I'm only 36, and was younger when I was wishing the communities weren't age-discriminatory. I would enjoy a place with no loud outdoor parties and no driving through a street, rolling my window down to be sure all the children have stopped playing basketball in my driveway. I'd like a community that offered lawn service at a group rate because few residents are up to cutting their own lawn, and where the community pool is used for fitness workouts. I'm athmatic and have fibromyalgia, and up until I was perscribed a home nebulizer *felt* 60 years old. But I certainly wouldn't be considered frot he communities that appealed to me... because I was young, and might want kids.
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» RE: The synopsis seems to me to show a majority agreement.
Posted by: MEL810
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Posted by: xyz2002 on Jan 30, 2006 8:00 AM
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If this is not the case how could all of the child-less people live when they are old, no matter how much money they have if there is no body there to serve them?
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Jan 30, 2006 8:57 AM
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It does'nt matter how kind or child-friendly the daycare center is,it still does'nt make up for having a parent around 24/7.
Make no mistake, parenting is hard and sometime thankless work. In fact it's the hardest job on the Planet and not everyone can do it. Sure we can all procreate,it's a biological function,but that does'nt automatically make you 'good parent material'.
In the old days when families were closer, the Grandparents had an active role in raising the children. They had the time because Mom and Dad were about taking care of the family needs and building their relationship. We don't see that much today.
It is the hope of all People that the new ones comming up will forge a better way. That's why society keeps on keepin' on. The more rescent scares of sexual disease will do more to drop the birth rate than stop sex. The truth is, we need children. Psychologically and literally. To know that the cure for disease is a birth away,or the next great Peacemaker is turning 4 gives comfort. The fact that they are comming
cannot be ignored or stopped.
It is up to us,here and now, to make sure we educate the children in truth. So they too may pass on the wisdom of the Elders that balances the knowlege learned in the World.
We must plan our societies with the 7th generation that will follow in mind. We forgot that 150 yrs ago and now we have a poisoned pond. In the next 150,perhaps we can give that generation the Garden back.
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Posted by: constantreader on Jan 30, 2006 9:05 AM
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» that's one reason I don't have any
Posted by: bumpy
» RE: that's one reason I don't have any
Posted by: crusty
» RE: think about this
Posted by: CovertRage
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Posted by: ScottP on Jan 30, 2006 10:14 AM
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Posted by: kww355 on Jan 30, 2006 11:24 AM
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Parents have lots of practice "tuning out" their children.I don't.( Ever been in a public place where a child is trying to get the parent's attention by repeating, "mommy,mommy,mommy" over and over?)
While I'm at it, when I go to a fast-food restaurant, a "family" place, or a kid's movie,I expect to encounter children. If I go to a "white tablecloth" restaurant or a PG or higher film, I do NOT. If your children can behave properly in public, bring 'em on !!! But if not, leave them at home. If you can afford a nice dinner or a movie, you can afford a babysitter. HIRE ONE !
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» This is off topic I realise
Posted by: Monde
» RE: This is off topic I realise
Posted by: kww355
» RE: This is not really so off topic
Posted by: mysticpal
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Posted by: rmj on Jan 30, 2006 11:27 AM
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» RE: rosemarie jackowski
Posted by: Envi
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Posted by: churchofone on Jan 30, 2006 11:55 AM
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I didn't want the job of parenting. Period. I knew that it was a HUGE committment to which I simply did not want to devote my time and energy. And I also knew that it would not be 'fair' for me to bring a child into the world knowing that about myself. There was no point in taking on a job that I was unwilling to do.
Now that I've reached the end of my child-bearing years, I've married a man with three grown children and three grandchildren, who was raised in your typically traditional 1950s household where a woman was expected to marry and raise children. Both my mother-in-law and stepdaughter don't "get it" and have told me "But you would have made a wonderful mother!" I like to think I would have been a good mother, had I had the willingness to do so. Instead, I get the benefits of friendly relationships with adult children AND grandchildren. All this and a sound bladder, too!
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Posted by: clonechemist on Jan 30, 2006 12:28 PM
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The only motive of the capitalist society is to profit, and exploiting and exacerbating the anti-social traits in young children has shown to be extremely effective in that regard. How much harder is it for a parent today to instill values of restraint, moderation, humility, and selflessness in children when these children spend hours in front of the television, where ~13% of what they see is advertising appealing to the basest instincts in their developing minds?
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» RE: e: "It's a kid's world"
Posted by: Envi
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Posted by: lionhead on Jan 30, 2006 12:58 PM
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Can anyone on the planet for one second think beyond their individual bubble of concerns?
As I said in connection with another article on AlterNet, I cannot abide people who bring more people to take up space and create garbage on this planet while the planet is dying from overpopulation and the egregious effects of those self-centered procreators and their offspring who populated it and are still populating it.
If you can guarantee that you, yourself, are doing ALL you can to stop the degradation and death spiral of this gorgeous planet, and/or you can guarantee that your offspring will do this, go for it--procreate. Otherwise, I wish you would abstain.
Please procreate descriminately--not just on the basis of whether you love children or can't abide the way they get in the way of your self-centered existence, or geeze, certainly not by an accident, but rather on the basis of a considered and more global perspective.
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Posted by: sasha40 on Jan 30, 2006 3:32 PM
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At the same time, for all the lip service we pay to "family values", I think parents get the shaft when it comes to health care, daycare and pretty much any other type of support. Perhaps if the pressures on parents were eased, the pressures on childless folk would, too.
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» Or maybe we should be responsible for our actions...
Posted by: Envi
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Posted by: mysticpal on Jan 30, 2006 4:27 PM
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And ya know what else? All of us gays had straight parents! Amazing, huh?
But it's always nice to hear a conservative admit that the "pro-life" concern about abortion is a lot of hypocrisy and nonsense.
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» RE: Hey Sparky!
Posted by: mysticpal
» RE: Hey Ayn!
Posted by: patti_s
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Posted by: mysticpal on Jan 30, 2006 4:19 PM
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I think most of us who are childless simply have serious doubts that we could be good parents. Possibly we are being too hard on ourselves.
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» RE: I child-proofed my home!
Posted by: mysticpal
» RE: You should child proof your reproductive organs
Posted by: mysticpal
» RE: You'll never adopt
Posted by: Envi
» Hey, Mr. Sensitive
Posted by: mysticpal
» RE: Hey, Mr. Sensitive
Posted by: mysticpal
» bad track record, huh?
Posted by: mysticpal
» RE: bad track record, huh?
Posted by: dumpsterBaby
» RE: bad track record, huh?
Posted by: mysticpal
» too late
Posted by: mysticpal
» RE: Aside
Posted by: mysticpal
» gay fathers & mothers
Posted by: mysticpal
» RE: gay fathers & mothers
Posted by: mysticpal
» or Rottweilers?
Posted by: mysticpal
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Posted by: Barbara on Jan 30, 2006 4:23 PM
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I chose to have one child because I knew that I could provide for her even if I became divorced.
Interestingly enough, I was called selfish and told that I was depriving her of a playmate. Regardless of the fact that I was able to be with her, play, educate in a fun way, explore, etc.
I think that my friends resented the fact that I enjoyed having a child and was not under the same pressures that they were financially and time wise.
If we trust people to know themselves. To know what they are able and willing to provide for their children, then people would feel less pressured to have children. Or having more children than they can be happy with, financially and time wise. It's all about providing quality for our kids.
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Posted by: granz on Jan 30, 2006 4:34 PM
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» RE: It's not just a baby, it's a super consumer!
Posted by: patti_s
» RE: It's not just a baby, it's a super consumer!
Posted by: granz
» RE: It's not just a baby, it's a super consumer!
Posted by: patti_s
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Posted by: kww355 on Jan 30, 2006 4:51 PM
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» RE: I'm childfree,but...
Posted by: granz
» RE: Pristine Planet
Posted by: granz
» RE: Pristine Planet
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: bookwoman on Jan 31, 2006 3:40 PM
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However, children do not belong in restaurants after seven o'clock. They should be home in bed. They also do not belong at adult cocktail parties or dinner. Don't ask - your hostess will be in a difficult position, not wanting to alienate you and not wanting to have her party ruined. I have a whole list of places where no one's children belong. I think, for instance, that churches should create "children's church services" perhaps bringing children into the regular service during the last few minutes of the service. No one's children are as cute and clever as their parents think they are.
I would, however, suggest that "child free" advocates not do anything permanent to themselves until they are absolutely sure they don't ever want children and make sure this is a decision that they really want and not something they are agreeing to to keep their spouse quiet.
One last thought, think where you would be if you parents had wanted to be "child free".
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Posted by: corpse on Aug 4, 2006 8:27 AM
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Posted by: maxpayne on Jan 30, 2006 6:41 AM
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» RE: If you're going to be child-free
Posted by: Sunfell
» RE: If you're going to be child-free
Posted by: Envi
» RE: If you're going to be child-free
Posted by: patti_s
» RE: If you're going to be child-free
Posted by: mysticpal
» RE: If you're going to be child-free
Posted by: CovertRage
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Posted by: Samantha Vimes on Jan 30, 2006 7:42 AM
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It's okay to have kids. It's okay not to have kids. It's important for adults as a whole to make the world a good place for future generations.
Mind you, the quote from me was a bit limited. I have been pressured on the bearing children issue, but I'm happy to say I'm sure enough of myself that it caused nothing but perhaps too strongly worded a rebuke from me. No second thoughts. No niggling self-doubt.
But there are things in my life I wish there was an option on. I've gazed longingly at senior communities. Sure, I'm only 36, and was younger when I was wishing the communities weren't age-discriminatory. I would enjoy a place with no loud outdoor parties and no driving through a street, rolling my window down to be sure all the children have stopped playing basketball in my driveway. I'd like a community that offered lawn service at a group rate because few residents are up to cutting their own lawn, and where the community pool is used for fitness workouts. I'm athmatic and have fibromyalgia, and up until I was perscribed a home nebulizer *felt* 60 years old. But I certainly wouldn't be considered frot he communities that appealed to me... because I was young, and might want kids.
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» RE: The synopsis seems to me to show a majority agreement.
Posted by: MEL810
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Posted by: xyz2002 on Jan 30, 2006 8:00 AM
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If this is not the case how could all of the child-less people live when they are old, no matter how much money they have if there is no body there to serve them?
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Jan 30, 2006 8:57 AM
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It does'nt matter how kind or child-friendly the daycare center is,it still does'nt make up for having a parent around 24/7.
Make no mistake, parenting is hard and sometime thankless work. In fact it's the hardest job on the Planet and not everyone can do it. Sure we can all procreate,it's a biological function,but that does'nt automatically make you 'good parent material'.
In the old days when families were closer, the Grandparents had an active role in raising the children. They had the time because Mom and Dad were about taking care of the family needs and building their relationship. We don't see that much today.
It is the hope of all People that the new ones comming up will forge a better way. That's why society keeps on keepin' on. The more rescent scares of sexual disease will do more to drop the birth rate than stop sex. The truth is, we need children. Psychologically and literally. To know that the cure for disease is a birth away,or the next great Peacemaker is turning 4 gives comfort. The fact that they are comming
cannot be ignored or stopped.
It is up to us,here and now, to make sure we educate the children in truth. So they too may pass on the wisdom of the Elders that balances the knowlege learned in the World.
We must plan our societies with the 7th generation that will follow in mind. We forgot that 150 yrs ago and now we have a poisoned pond. In the next 150,perhaps we can give that generation the Garden back.
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Posted by: constantreader on Jan 30, 2006 9:05 AM
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» that's one reason I don't have any
Posted by: bumpy
» RE: that's one reason I don't have any
Posted by: crusty
» RE: think about this
Posted by: CovertRage
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ScottP on Jan 30, 2006 10:14 AM
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Posted by: kww355 on Jan 30, 2006 11:24 AM
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Parents have lots of practice "tuning out" their children.I don't.( Ever been in a public place where a child is trying to get the parent's attention by repeating, "mommy,mommy,mommy" over and over?)
While I'm at it, when I go to a fast-food restaurant, a "family" place, or a kid's movie,I expect to encounter children. If I go to a "white tablecloth" restaurant or a PG or higher film, I do NOT. If your children can behave properly in public, bring 'em on !!! But if not, leave them at home. If you can afford a nice dinner or a movie, you can afford a babysitter. HIRE ONE !
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» This is off topic I realise
Posted by: Monde
» RE: This is off topic I realise
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» RE: This is not really so off topic
Posted by: mysticpal
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Posted by: rmj on Jan 30, 2006 11:27 AM
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» RE: rosemarie jackowski
Posted by: Envi
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Posted by: churchofone on Jan 30, 2006 11:55 AM
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I didn't want the job of parenting. Period. I knew that it was a HUGE committment to which I simply did not want to devote my time and energy. And I also knew that it would not be 'fair' for me to bring a child into the world knowing that about myself. There was no point in taking on a job that I was unwilling to do.
Now that I've reached the end of my child-bearing years, I've married a man with three grown children and three grandchildren, who was raised in your typically traditional 1950s household where a woman was expected to marry and raise children. Both my mother-in-law and stepdaughter don't "get it" and have told me "But you would have made a wonderful mother!" I like to think I would have been a good mother, had I had the willingness to do so. Instead, I get the benefits of friendly relationships with adult children AND grandchildren. All this and a sound bladder, too!
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Posted by: clonechemist on Jan 30, 2006 12:28 PM
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The only motive of the capitalist society is to profit, and exploiting and exacerbating the anti-social traits in young children has shown to be extremely effective in that regard. How much harder is it for a parent today to instill values of restraint, moderation, humility, and selflessness in children when these children spend hours in front of the television, where ~13% of what they see is advertising appealing to the basest instincts in their developing minds?
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» RE: e: "It's a kid's world"
Posted by: Envi
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Posted by: lionhead on Jan 30, 2006 12:58 PM
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Can anyone on the planet for one second think beyond their individual bubble of concerns?
As I said in connection with another article on AlterNet, I cannot abide people who bring more people to take up space and create garbage on this planet while the planet is dying from overpopulation and the egregious effects of those self-centered procreators and their offspring who populated it and are still populating it.
If you can guarantee that you, yourself, are doing ALL you can to stop the degradation and death spiral of this gorgeous planet, and/or you can guarantee that your offspring will do this, go for it--procreate. Otherwise, I wish you would abstain.
Please procreate descriminately--not just on the basis of whether you love children or can't abide the way they get in the way of your self-centered existence, or geeze, certainly not by an accident, but rather on the basis of a considered and more global perspective.
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Posted by: sasha40 on Jan 30, 2006 3:32 PM
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At the same time, for all the lip service we pay to "family values", I think parents get the shaft when it comes to health care, daycare and pretty much any other type of support. Perhaps if the pressures on parents were eased, the pressures on childless folk would, too.
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» Or maybe we should be responsible for our actions...
Posted by: Envi
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Posted by: mysticpal on Jan 30, 2006 4:27 PM
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And ya know what else? All of us gays had straight parents! Amazing, huh?
But it's always nice to hear a conservative admit that the "pro-life" concern about abortion is a lot of hypocrisy and nonsense.
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» RE: Hey Sparky!
Posted by: mysticpal
» RE: Hey Ayn!
Posted by: patti_s
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Posted by: mysticpal on Jan 30, 2006 4:19 PM
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I think most of us who are childless simply have serious doubts that we could be good parents. Possibly we are being too hard on ourselves.
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» RE: I child-proofed my home!
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» RE: You should child proof your reproductive organs
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» RE: You'll never adopt
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» Hey, Mr. Sensitive
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» RE: Hey, Mr. Sensitive
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» bad track record, huh?
Posted by: mysticpal
» RE: bad track record, huh?
Posted by: dumpsterBaby
» RE: bad track record, huh?
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» too late
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» RE: Aside
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» gay fathers & mothers
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» RE: gay fathers & mothers
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» or Rottweilers?
Posted by: mysticpal
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Posted by: Barbara on Jan 30, 2006 4:23 PM
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I chose to have one child because I knew that I could provide for her even if I became divorced.
Interestingly enough, I was called selfish and told that I was depriving her of a playmate. Regardless of the fact that I was able to be with her, play, educate in a fun way, explore, etc.
I think that my friends resented the fact that I enjoyed having a child and was not under the same pressures that they were financially and time wise.
If we trust people to know themselves. To know what they are able and willing to provide for their children, then people would feel less pressured to have children. Or having more children than they can be happy with, financially and time wise. It's all about providing quality for our kids.
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Posted by: granz on Jan 30, 2006 4:34 PM
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» RE: It's not just a baby, it's a super consumer!
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» RE: It's not just a baby, it's a super consumer!
Posted by: granz
» RE: It's not just a baby, it's a super consumer!
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Posted by: kww355 on Jan 30, 2006 4:51 PM
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» RE: I'm childfree,but...
Posted by: granz
» RE: Pristine Planet
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» RE: Pristine Planet
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: bookwoman on Jan 31, 2006 3:40 PM
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However, children do not belong in restaurants after seven o'clock. They should be home in bed. They also do not belong at adult cocktail parties or dinner. Don't ask - your hostess will be in a difficult position, not wanting to alienate you and not wanting to have her party ruined. I have a whole list of places where no one's children belong. I think, for instance, that churches should create "children's church services" perhaps bringing children into the regular service during the last few minutes of the service. No one's children are as cute and clever as their parents think they are.
I would, however, suggest that "child free" advocates not do anything permanent to themselves until they are absolutely sure they don't ever want children and make sure this is a decision that they really want and not something they are agreeing to to keep their spouse quiet.
One last thought, think where you would be if you parents had wanted to be "child free".
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Posted by: corpse on Aug 4, 2006 8:27 AM
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Posted by: corpse on Aug 7, 2006 9:34 AM
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Posted by: corpse on Aug 7, 2006 9:34 AM
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Posted by: seogirl on Aug 8, 2006 9:35 AM
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Vancouver's Games Will Be the Gayest Olympics Ever
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