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Don't Blame Israel

By Stephen Zunes, AlterNet. Posted January 14, 2006.


The government of Israel and its supporters deserve blame for many tragic policies in recent years; the U.S. invasion of Iraq, however, is not one of them.

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The official rationales for the U.S. invasion of Iraq are now widely acknowledged to have been fabricated: that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction threatening the national security of the United States and that the Iraqi government had operational ties to al Quaida. As the backup rationalization -- bringing freedom and democracy to Iraq -- loses credibility, increasing attention is being given as to why the U.S. government, with broad bipartisan support, made such a fateful decision.

There are a number of plausible explanations, ranging from control of the country's oil resources to strategic interests to ideological motivations. One explanation that should not be taken seriously, however, is the assertion that the right-wing government of Israel and its American supporters played a major role in leading the United States to invade Iraq.

The government of Israel and its supporters here in the United States deserve blame for many tragic policies in recent years that have led to needless human suffering, increased extremism in the Islamic world, decreased security and rampant violations of the U.N. Charter, international humanitarian law and other international legal principles. The U.S. invasion of Iraq, however, is not one of them.

Claims of a Major Israeli Role

There are four major arguments made by those who allege a key role by Israel and its American supporters in leading the United States to war in Iraq:

1. Despite propaganda by the Bush administration and its bipartisan supporters on Capitol Hill, Iraq was not a military threat to the United States. As a result, the invasion had to have been done to protect Israel from an Iraqi attack.

To begin with, Iraq, during the final years of Saddam Hussein's rule, was no more of a threat to Israel than it was to the United States. Virtually all Iraqi missiles capable of reaching Israel had been accounted for and destroyed by UNSCOM. The International Atomic Energy Agency had determined that Iraq no longer had a nuclear program, and virtually all the country's chemical weapons had similarly been accounted for and destroyed, or otherwise rendered inoperable. All this was presumably known to the Israelis, who actively monitored United Nations disarmament efforts in Iraq and had the best military intelligence capabilities in the region.

Though observers were less confident regarding the absence of biological weapons, the Israelis recognized that there was no realistic threat from that source either. Respected Israeli military analyst Meir Stieglitz, writing in the Israeli newspaper Yediot Ahronot, stated categorically that "there is no such thing as a long-range Iraqi missile with an effective biological warhead. No one has found an Iraqi biological warhead. The chances of Iraq having succeeded in developing operative warheads without tests are zero." Similarly, it is highly doubtful that Iraq would have been able to attack Israel with biological weapons or by other means. For example, it is hard to imagine that an Iraqi aircraft carrying biological weapons, presumably some kind of subsonic drone, could somehow make the 600-mile trip to Israel without being detected and shot down. Israel -- as well as Iraq's immediate neighbors -- have long had sophisticated anti-aircraft capability.

More fundamentally, if the United States was really concerned with Israel's safety from Iraqi attack, why did the U.S. government provide Iraq with key elements of its WMD programs during the 1980s, including the seed stock for its anthrax and many of the components for its chemical weaponry, when Iraq clearly did have the capability of striking Israel? How could the pro-Israel lobby -- which was no more influential in 2002 than it was 15 years earlier -- have the power to push the United States to invade Iraq while Saddam was no longer a threat to Israel, when the lobby was unable to stop U.S. technology transfers to Iraq at a time that it really could have potentially harmed Israel?

2. Though Iraq had no connection with al-Qaeda, it was supporting other terrorist groups that were attacking Israel. A U.S. invasion was seen as a means to stopping the terrorist threat targeted at the Jewish state.

Saddam Hussein did support the Abu Nidal group, a radical secular Palestinian movement, during the mid-1980s, though it tended to target moderate leaders of the Palestine Liberation Organization as much as it did Israelis. Ironically, the Reagan administration dropped Iraq from its list of states sponsoring terrorism at that time in order to be able to transfer arms and technology to Saddam Hussein's regime that would have otherwise been illegal. Iraq was put back on the list of state sponsors of terrorism immediately following its invasion of Kuwait in August 1990, despite evidence that Iraq's support for international terrorism had actually declined. Abu Nidal himself became chronically ill not long afterward, and his group had been largely moribund for more than a decade when Saddam Hussein had him killed in his Baghdad apartment in 2002.

Iraq did support a tiny pro-Iraqi Palestinian group known as the Arab Liberation Front, which was known to pass on much of these funds to families of Palestinians who died in the struggle against Israel. These recipients included families of Palestine Authority police and families of nonviolent protesters, though some recipients were families of suicide bombers. Such Iraqi support was significantly less than the support many of these same families had received from Saudi Arabia and other U.S.-backed Arab monarchies, which -- unlike Iraq -- also provided direct funding for Hamas and other radical Palestinian Islamists.

In any case, given that Israeli occupation forces routinely destroyed the homes of families of suicide bombers and the Iraqi money fell way short of making up for their losses, it was hardly an incentive for someone to commit an act of terrorism, which tends to be driven by the anger, hopelessness, and desperation of living under an oppressive military occupation, not by financial incentives.

3. Individuals and organizations sympathetic to Israel strongly supported the invasion. Sizable numbers of otherwise dovish Jewish members of Congress voted in support of the war resolution and the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), long considered one of the most powerful lobbying groups on Capitol Hill, pushed Congress to authorize an invasion on behalf of Israel.

While AIPAC undeniably has influenced congressional votes regarding Israeli-Palestinian concerns and related issues, it did not play a major role in lobbying members of Congress to vote in favor of the resolution authorizing a U.S. invasion of Iraq, in large part because they knew there was already such overwhelming bipartisan support for taking over that oil-rich country that they did not need to.

More fundamentally, there are far more powerful interests that have a stake in what happens in the Persian Gulf region than does AIPAC, such as the oil companies, the arms industry and other special interests whose lobbying influence and campaign contributions far surpass that of the much-vaunted Zionist lobby and its allied donors to congressional races.

It is noteworthy that in the authorization of the use of force for the 1991 Gulf War, the majority of Jewish members of Congress voted against the war resolution, which is more than can be said for its non-Jewish members. In the more lopsided vote authorizing the use of force in October 2002, a majority of Jewish members of Congress did vote in the affirmative, though proportionately less so than did non-Jewish members.

Today, the American Jewish community, like most Americans, is turning against the war. Rabbi Eric Yoffie, president of the Union of American Hebrew Congregations, along with its chairman of the board, Robert Heller, recently sent a letter to President Bush stating, "We call not only for a clear exit strategy but also for specific goals for troop withdrawal to commence after the completion of parliamentary elections."

4. Pro-Israel Jewish neoconservatives like Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Richard Perle and others were among the key architects of the policy of "preventative war" and strongest advocates for a U.S. invasion of Iraq.

While it is true that a disproportionate number of Jews could be found among the policy makers in Washington who pushed for a U.S. invasion of Iraq, it is also true that a disproportionate number of Jews could be found among liberal Democrats in Congress and leftist intellectuals in universities who opposed the invasion of Iraq. Furthermore, while a number of prominent neoconservative intellectuals are of Jewish background and some of them even advised Benyamin Netanyahu's right-wing government during the 1990s, they have tended not to be religious nor have they strongly identified as Zionists in an ideological sense.

It should also be noted that these same neoconservatives, while in the Reagan administration during the 1980s, were advocates of a U.S. invasion of Nicaragua and Cuba as well as a nuclear first strike -- in a so-called "limited nuclear war" -- against the Soviet Union. In short, they are hawks across the board, not just in regard to the Middle East. Support for Israel has always been seen as part of a broader strategic design to advance perceived U.S. interests in the region.

Furthermore, the most prominent and influential proponents of the U.S. invasion of Iraq -- Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and Vice President Dick Cheney -- are neither Jewish nor prone to put the perceived interests of Israel ahead of that of the United States. Indeed, strong U.S. strategic interests in the Persian Gulf region, home of most of the world's known oil reserves, have existed for many decades and even pre-date the establishment of modern Israel.

Has the War Really Helped Israel?

To argue that support for Israel and/or pressure by supporters of Israel was a crucial variable in prompting the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq assumes that the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq has been good for Israel.

While Israel had little to worry about regarding Iraq during Saddam Hussein's final years in power, they certainly do now: Key leaders of Iraq's current government and likely future government are part of fundamentalist Shiite political movements heavily influenced by Iran. These movements are strongly anti-Zionist in orientation and some have maintained close ties to other radical Arab Shiite groups, such as the Lebanese Hizbullah, whose militia has battled Israel for more than 20 years.

The most powerful of the dominant parties of the U.S.-backed governing coalition has been the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, whose 15,000-strong paramilitary unit, known as the Badr Brigade, was trained by the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, which also helped train the Hizbullah.

Meanwhile, the anti-government and anti-U.S. insurgents in Iraq are dominated by Sunni Salafists and radical Arab nationalists, both of whom tend to be anti-Israel extremists. Thanks to the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq, these insurgents are becoming stronger and increasingly sophisticated fighters gaining valuable new experiences in urban guerrilla warfare as well as terrorist tactics. These Iraqi insurgents have developed close ties with radical Jordanian and Palestinian groups with the means and motivation to harm Israeli civilians and Israel will undoubtedly feel their impact.

As a result, rather than goading the United States into taking military action against Syria, the Israeli government has been cautioning the United States to back off from its pressure against the Assad regime, fearing that if the Baathist leader was overthrown, more radical elements could come to power or that the country could be thrown into a destabilizing civil war. Similarly, public opinion polls show that a sizable majority of Israelis oppose pre-emptive military action against Iran for fear that an attack on that large Islamic country could have serious negative consequences to Israeli security interests.

As part of its desperate strategy to defend its disastrous policies in Iraq, the Bush administration and its supporters are now using the defense of Israel as an excuse. While such claims have no more validity than claims that Saddam Hussein had operational ties to al Qaida or still possessed WMDs, it carries the additional danger that Israel and its American Jewish supporters will end up getting blamed for the whole Iraqi debacle.

The American Jewish newspaper The Forward noted how a number of pro-Israel American activists and prominent Israelis had criticized recent comments by President George W. Bush and other prominent Republicans who have recently played the Israel card to justify the increasingly unpopular war. For example, Dani Rothschild, a retired Israeli major general who had served as the Israeli army's top administrator in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, noted how "it could put Israel in a very awkward situation with the American public, if Israel would be the excuse for losing more American soldiers every day."

Using Israel as an excuse for unpopular U.S. policies in the Middle East is nothing new. Over the past decade, I have had the opportunity to meet with a half-dozen Arab foreign ministers and deputy foreign ministers and have asked each of them why their government was still so friendly with the United States, given U.S. policy toward the Palestinians, the Iraqis and other Arabs. Every one has answered to the effect that U.S. officials had explained to them that the anti-Arab bias in U.S. foreign policy was not the fault of the U.S. government itself, but was the result of wealthy Jews essentially running U.S. foreign policy.

In short, American officials are utilizing classic anti-Semitic scapegoating by blaming an alleged cabal of rich Jews behind the scenes for being responsible for a widely perceived injustice as a means of deflecting attention away from those who actually are responsible.

This does not mean that everyone who overstates the role of Israel in propelling the United States to war with Iraq is guilty of anti-Semitism. They just happen to be wrong. Because this particular argument parallels dangerous anti-Semitic stereotypes that exaggerate Jewish power and influence, however, it is a particularly grievous misinterpretation, not just because it reinforces longstanding oppressive attitudes against a minority group, but because it diverts attention away from those who really are responsible for the continuing tragedy in Iraq.

Indeed, that has largely been the functional purpose of anti-Semitism throughout Western history: to misdirect popular anger at economic injustice, disastrous military campaigns or other failures by political and economic elites onto a convenient and expendable target. It is critical, therefore -- particularly for those who identify with the peace movement -- to resist buying into the myth that it was Israel and its supporters who were responsible for the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq.

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Stephen Zunes is a professor of politics at the University of San Francisco and Middle East editor of Foreign Policy In Focus. He is the author of "Tinderbox: U.S. Middle East Policy and the Roots of Terrorism" (Common Courage Press, 2003). A longer version of this article was originally posted on the FPIF website.

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Well thought out, well intentioned, well written. And dead wrong.
Posted by: feistycactus on Jan 14, 2006 12:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a rather interesting piece -- both well written and clearly well thought out. But unfortunately, it is also dead wrong on every point.

The notion that there were Jewish folks on both sides of the war debate has nothing to do with the fact that hard-core Zionists were in positions of power and had incredible influence in shaping the argument for the war. To suggest that Noam Chomsky and Richard Perle hold the same power in US foreign policy is like giving a tank and an ant equal rights to run right over each other. It is a nice-sounding argument, but unfortunately dead wrong: Chomsky did not have influence in US policy on Iraq, but Perle did.

The argument that Iraq was not *seen* as a threat to Israel is laughable. Iraq gave money to families of suicide bombers, thus encouraging the bombings. Whether a truly credible threat with its missiles, the Israeli public clearly saw Iraq as a huge threat because of the Iraqi support of the suicide bombings. The fact that there were only two countries in the world where the majority of the population supported the war (US and Israel) also makes this argument dead wrong. Whether the threat was real or not is debatable -- but the Israeli public saw it as a threat. The author's argument is well intentioned, but clearly dead wrong.

The notion that one has to be Jewish to be a supporter of Israel is also false. AIPAC has corrupted our politicians in Washington inside out -- you have to support Israel to be elected to congress these days. This makes the third point of AIPAC involvement again false. It is not a question of whether AIPAC lobbied for the war (which I agree, they did not have to do) but whether AIPAC helped put in place the politicians who voted for the war. That, they are guilty as charged because again, there is no way to become a US Congressman or Senator without pleding support to Israel (and thus being also guilty of treason by default, through dual allegiance by the way)

Whether the War has helped Israel or not is irrelevant, and has nothing to do with the argument. The question is not whether it had in fact helped Israel, but whether the folks behind the misguided effort thought that it would. Look at who the architects of the war were -- nearly *every* single one of them was a Zionist.
(continued in next post)

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» Oh, my, you read my mind! Posted by: Pepper
» Thank you. Posted by: tcx2
» RE: Thank you. Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: The Problem is... Posted by: aonghus36
Well thought out, well intentioned, well written. And dead wrong.
Posted by: feistycactus on Jan 14, 2006 12:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(continued from previous comment)


To suggest that Israel had nothing to do with this war is dead wrong. I am disappointed that Alternet even considered allowing this biased, poorly argued article to even show up on their otherwise excellent site. While your coverage of other issues is excellent, your editors clearly lack the stamina to take a clear stand on the side of justice on this crucial issue.

I've spent time in the Occupied Territories and know quite well the situation on the ground. I invite the editors of Alternet to take a fact finding trip to Palestine. Stop being bloody arm chair warriors -- get out of your comfy Manhattan apartments and actually see the massive ethnic cleansing for yourselves. I suspect that may lead to more balanced, less biased reporting.

So please stop peeing on my shoe and telling me its raining -- I can smell the difference.

-Vladislav Davidzon, vladislav at davidzon.com
Executive Director, Portland Peace and Justice Center, www.portlandpeace.org
Past activist w/ International Solidarity Movement, www.palsolidarity.org
Past activist w/ Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions, www.icahd.org

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» And one other thing ... Posted by: JoshuaHolland
MORE NEO CON PROPAGANDA
Posted by: alexrahman on Jan 14, 2006 1:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the same rhetoric and misleading half truths that the Neo con fanatics used to get us into the war.

Why no mention of "the clean break" paper written for Israel by Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, and David Wurmser?

Why no analysis of what that document says, and the strategy which the US is now following, amazingly laid out in that paper?

Not all neocons are Jewish, in fact the neocons, even the Jewish ones, are not religous, this way they can justify using the weak minded "evangelical christians" to do their bidding.

Perhaps a review of Antiwar.com will help the readers understand the degree of influence this fanatic cult has within the US government, which is arguably a sucessful coup.

Perhaps a review of Leo Strauss, also Jewish, who created the so called Neo conservative movement, and taught at that well know bastion for twisted anti democratic reasoning, The University of Chicago, and was a professor of Mr. Wolfowitz would be instructive.

Maybe a review of the film, "the power of Nightmares" by the BBC which exposes this fanatic and fraudulent agenda which relies, and encourages, and justifies Lying to the masses for their own good would help this propagandist see the truth.

Neoconservatives do not need to be jewish, and to make the claim that to dispise and disdain them is antisemetic, is a falacious and disengenuous arguement.

Evidently since Leo Strauss believed that he and his followers had superior "Rhetorical Skills" than the "mindless herds" they would be quick to take charge.

Perhaps a review of that BBC Film, not shown in America, called
The power of Nightmares will expose these lying criminals.

To claim that any one who dispises Neo cons is anti semetic is a smokescreen and a distraction from the truth. Neo cons have hijacked this government through the use of well placed and capable fanatics. - The Cabal, as they call themselves, gleefully.

Lets look at the founders of The project for the new american century, wherein Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul wolfowitz, I. Lewis Libby, along with supporting members of Richard Perle, John Bolton, call for world military domination.

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» RE: MORE NEO CON PROPAGANDA Posted by: Pepper
» RE: MORE NEO CON PROPAGANDA Posted by: alexrahman
» RE: Clean Break Neo Cons Strategy Posted by: alexrahman
MORE NEO CON PROPAGANDA Pt 2
Posted by: alexrahman on Jan 14, 2006 2:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
continued.

This author's arguement is a Fraud like all the rest of the Neo con delusional and fanatical garbage, that their Right wing "think tanks" and the "liberal media" support.

They should all be charged with treason.

Rhetorically we must ask, "If it is acceptable and even mandatory to Lie to the public, then, when these fanatics swear to uphold the constitution, was that just another lie to put them into the power position they seek?"

Watch the BBC Video, it can be downloaded, and see the news clips of Rumsfeld lying to the press, and the public. which the "liberal media" forget and forgot to question him about.

Where are those multi level High tech Caves in Afghanistan?
Remember the ones with air Filtration, sleeping quarters, advanced telecommunications, weapons caches, and enough space in their multi storied bunkers to hide trucks in?

Where are they?

Guess what?
They don't exist. and they never did. That is why we have not found them.

But Mr Neo Con Rumsfeld, the advanced Rhetoritican, told us on Tim Russert's show, Face the Nation, all about them, along with nice color Diagrams.

A Fraud.

A similar Fraud to George W. Bush Claiming we don't subscribe to the policy of "Nation Building".

I wonder why that question came up in the campaign to the election of 2000?

Fanatics and admitted liars, and those who appologize for them should have their patriotism questioned, not their semitism.

I too am a little surprised that Alternet would publish such blatent and distorted Neo con apologist propoganda.

It is not anti semetic to hate Neo cons, It is patriotic. They should be hunted down, and charged with Treason.

"Antisemitism" is the highly sensitive politically correct buzzword used to shift focus away from the criminal activities under foot.

In short, a Nonsense argument and smokescreen.

Take a look at the neo con "game plan" published in september of 2000.

Multiple wars, on multiple fronts, simultaneously, with light agile and quick military strike capacity. Sound Familiar?

We can all see their manifesto.
the strategy for rebuilding america's defenses for the new century

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» RE: MORE NEO CON PROPAGANDA Pt 2 Posted by: alexrahman
» RE: MORE NEO CON PROPAGANDA Pt 2 Posted by: cold2touch
Fairy tales
Posted by: underledge on Jan 14, 2006 3:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps the author should consider writing Fairy Tale stories as a side line besides his day job working for the Bush administration. He seems to have a way with "make believe" and fantasy. If you tell a lie often enough people will believe it.

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» RE: Fairy tales Posted by: codingguy
Facts can't be argued only spun!!!!!
Posted by: Pepper on Jan 14, 2006 5:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article/commentary appears to do just that. It admits much and then spins it into an alternative conclusion that doesn't reflect reality.

I am unsure why this even came up at this time? Has something triggered this?? Are the scandels involving spying by Feirth's assistant, with the AIPAC as coconspirators (which we never see in the news anymore) in the Pentagon coming to ahead?? Is this a preemptive strike?

How come the author didn't discuss Judith Miller and her insider status with these neocons??? How come she wasn't mentioned since she singlehandedly aided this neocon administration into war under false pretences and gave them cover like no journalist should ever do????

As for religious, that has nothing to do with it. Its about power, world domination and protection. Half of our FOREIGN AID IN THIS COUNTRY GOES TO ISREAL. How can anyone say there is no consideration. You can have multiple agendas for any action and I believe that is the case here.

There is too much going on that fits the opposite conclusion than what this commentary provided.

Here, read this:

www.sundayherald.com/print27735

I also agree its time to stop reacting to being called an antisemite when confronted with facts that are indesputable. When you can't argue facts, and you can't argue law, namecall. I don't believe it will work much anymore.

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agitator church and state
Posted by: eileenflmng on Jan 14, 2006 5:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course our best friend in the world, Israel did not lead us into Iraq.
That buck stops at the White House.

What we can credit the Israeli government with was told to this reporter on January 5, 2006 in Ramallah at the Headquarters of ADAMEER [Arabic for conscience]
[WWW.ADDAMEER.ORG]

Ala Jaradat spoke for ADAMEER:

“The methods and photos from Abu Grahib and Guantanamo were no shock to any Palestinian who had been in prison between 1967 and the ‘80’s. All the methods used in Abu Grahib were normal procedures against Palestinians. In 1999 Internationals, Palestinians and Israelis for human rights threatened a boycott against Israel and that is what forced the Supreme Court to address the torture issue. They did not ban torture and the General Prosecutor can choose not to prosecute those who still use it."

more on WAWA:
http://www.wearewideawake.org

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muggles5
Posted by: kenhymes on Jan 14, 2006 6:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with the commenters that the political situation in Washington has fostered a disproportionate influence of the right wing Israeli view over our foreign policy. And the Israeli government has done much over the last few decades to add fuel to the fire.

But it's worth noting that Israel is not politically monolithic. There is lots of dissent, just not enough to take over the government. We ought to be sympathetic to this, as we face a similar situation here.

The left needs to be thoughtful in talking about this. Yes, it is a smokescreen to accuse all those who criticize US policy in the Middle East of being anti-Semitic. However, it is not an illusion on the part of Israelis that they are at risk - partly, but not entirely, because of their own humiliation of the Palestinians. The Iranian President's recent intemperate comments demonstrate that the conflict between Jewish and Arab nationalism is not going away anytime soon.

I hope that progressives favor peaceful, democratically accountable solutions to problems. This means we need to be able to welcome all points of view to the table, even those we don't understand.

For better or worse, there are those for whom control of land in the Middle East has profound cultural and religious implications. Those parties are being used cynically by various political factions and corporate factions here in the US.

Teasing out real needs and legitimate demands from artificially inflamed anger and hyperbole is going to be a difficult task for all concerned parties well into the future.

Patience, and adherence to human rights and democratic principles are paramount virtues here, and no one is going to be able to shout or argue or bomb their way to a resolution.

Peace and Grace

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What next? A UN resolution abolishing the inhuman experiment that is Zionist Israel?
Posted by: hoogenboom on Jan 14, 2006 7:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Goodness, Israel knew Bush and co were bullshitting and didn't try to stop them - on the gounds that war and the ensuing melee could result in the end of US support of Israel? How stupid of the Israelis! Certainly Israel and Jews are already being blamed for the war in Iraq (just google "neocon Jews" etc.). What next, Israel without US support having to be civilised to the Palestinians? Or even a UN resolution calling for an end to the Zionist experiment and requiring Jews to give Palestinians their land back? Or to live peacefully with Palestinians in some sort of secular, non-Jewish greater Palestine? Afraid that would be the fairest and most reasonable solution, you Israelis! All this religious nonsense is the cause of too much misery in the world.

Robert Hoogenboom
Sydney, Australia

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» to mike: Posted by: codingguy
» RE: to mike & coddinguy: Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: to mike & coddinguy: Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: to mike & coddinguy: Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: to mike: Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: to mike: Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: to mike: Posted by: codingguy
Qwerty
Posted by: Qwerty on Jan 14, 2006 7:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excuse me, but the Israelis were URGING Bush to attack Iraq asap because of "compelling evidence" of Iraqi WMD and supposed links to Al Qaeda, even though they KNEW at that time that both were falsehoods. Not only that, they tried to divert culpability for 9/11 to Hizbollah!! I don't blame Israelis for their opportunism, but please, don't whitewash the fact that when they want the US to fight Israel's enemies.

From
http://www.cbsnews.com/

Israel To U.S.: Don't Delay Iraq Attack

JERUSALEM, Aug. 16, 2002
(CBS/AP)

Quote

"Any postponement of an attack on Iraq at this stage will serve no purpose."
Ranaan Gissin
aide to Ariel Sharon

(CBS) Israel is urging U.S. officials not to delay a military strike against Iraq's Saddam Hussein, an aide to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said Friday.

Israeli intelligence officials have gathered evidence that Iraq is speeding up efforts to produce biological and chemical weapons, said Sharon aide Ranaan Gissin.

"Any postponement of an attack on Iraq at this stage will serve no purpose," Gissin said. "It will only give him (Saddam) more of an opportunity to accelerate his program of weapons of mass destruction."

The United States has been considering a military campaign against Iraq to remove Saddam from power, listing him as one of the world's main terrorist regimes. However, there is considerable world opposition to a U.S. strike.

As evidence of Iraq's weapons building activities, Israel points to an order Saddam gave to Iraq's Atomic Energy Commission last week to speed up its work, Gissin said.

"Saddam's going to be able to reach a point where these weapons will be operational," he said.


and

http://www.janes.com/

19 Sept. 2001

Who did it? Foreign Report presents an alternative view

Israel’s military intelligence service, Aman, suspects that Iraq is the state that sponsored the suicide attacks on the New York Trade Center and the Pentagon in Washington. Directing the mission, Aman officers believe, were two of the world’s foremost terrorist masterminds: the Lebanese Imad Mughniyeh, head of the special overseas operations for Hizbullah, and the Egyptian Dr Ayman Al Zawahiri, ...

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God Bless Voltaire
Posted by: wobblies on Jan 14, 2006 8:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hi~
As someone who believes that Israel had significant influence on the decision to invade Iraq, I only want to respond to the comments by various people that criticize Alternet for publishing Mr. Zunes article. It has been very frustrating to observe many examples of what Israel appears to be doing in order to wag the US's tail; they appear to have gained significant influence over George. This article addressed the issue even if it was written in opposition to my beliefs.

Seeing a defense against my own views confronted me with the need to re-exam my beliefs; this was especially true because the author is clearly a critic of the invasion. As Ali said to Fraser, give me your best shot.

Look now at the response to the article: the influence of Israel on American foreign policy is being discussed on these pages with brilliant observations. I only wish that other people with Mr. Zunes views would join in the discussion so that we can see the entire picture. We can be confident that communially addressing this very important issue will only help us expose for the greater public the role of Israel in this war and help us reconsider the nature of our alliance with them.

God Speed,
David Elliott

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» RE: God Bless Voltaire Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: God Bless Voltaire Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: God Bless Voltaire Posted by: mim
» RE: God Bless Voltaire Posted by: mikespindell
The Clean Break paper on line
Posted by: alexrahman on Jan 14, 2006 9:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The link to the BBC film "the power of Nightmares" has been taken off line based on content.

The movie is copyrighted, so perhaps they have considered releasing it in DVD or even presenting it in the US.

Here is a link to a good review and discussion of the film.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=The_Power_of_Nightmares

I post here a link to the "A clean Break" white paper for Israeli strategy and policy.

It is a very freightening Millitant proposal which reflects no sense of human decency. Curiously, this seems to be the blue print that this administration has followed for it's middle east policy.
Brutal Stuff.

Here is the text of the Clean Break policy / strategy paper written by Perle, Wurmser, Feith, et al. http://www.israeleconomy.org/strat1.htm

The list of contributors contains Representatives from all the "respectable" Neo con "Think Tanks" out there.

You decide if the authors decided to implement this policy when they got into power, even unilaterally, which would mean it is not Israel's fault, it is the fault of the fanatics who have hijacked the defense department, and effectively perpetrated a coup on the US government.

Finally, a very thorough analysis of Sharon's actions, Professor's Zunes rediculous article, and the impact of these neo con traitors on the US government at Sharon's Epitaph written by Justin Raimondo who has been following the Valerie Plame scandal (which appears to be also based on the Neo con philosopy articulated in the clean break paper) for over 2 years.

His analysis of the Neo Con influence is very thorough and documented. A good read.

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lulugee
Posted by: Lulu Gee on Jan 14, 2006 9:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Zunes doth protest too much, but gets, finally, to the point in the last paragraph when he conflates anti-semitism with anti-zionism. Sorry, Steve, that won't work any more, we've had that sludge dumped on us 100 times too many; and we're even starting to like it. But thanks for bring up the bit about how we the people under duress of a failing economy are casting about for an expendable nation to blame. We have indeed found one--Iraq not Israel was the target of the American people's need to find an enemy. King Georgie and Co. have obliged us for their own reasons. Israel has been a co-conspirator. It is an ally, not a helpless victim-state shivering in fear, awaiting aid from a distant, shining shore.

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» RE: lulugee Posted by: JoshuaHolland
The real reason for Iraq
Posted by: JoshuaHolland on Jan 14, 2006 10:33 AM   
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Last year, I put in my two cents about the "real reason" we went into Iraq, in response to a piece by William Rivers Pitt, over at the The Gadflyer.

I think it's relevant to this article, too.

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DID ISRAEL URGE U.S. TO INVADE IRAQ?
Posted by: TheStranger on Jan 14, 2006 11:19 AM   
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That's a more important question than counting Jews on both sides of the policy. As a veteran who's Jewish and whose son serves in the U.S. military I also object to being swept into the same category as the neocon fools and nuts who seemed to believe in magic -- presto! -- we invade, Iraq goes democratic and everything will be paid for by Iraqi oil!! But I must concede that if any of these people have dual loyalties they are a bigger disgrace than they already are anyway for their lunatic policies that have done nothing but work against U.S. interests.

BACK TO THE QUESTION: DID ISRAEL BELIEVE THIS CRAP AND FOIST IT ON THE U.S.? I don't know and would really like to find out. These posts don't even deal with the issue.

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» RE: Neocons and Nukes! Posted by: alexrahman
The REAL reason
Posted by: Qwerty on Jan 14, 2006 11:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
for anything happening in the world today is of course oil. Iraq is about oil, Venezuala is about oil, the coloured revolutions in Ukraine, brewing in Uzbekistan, Khazakstan, etc, the current Iran crisis, are about oil, oil and oil.

The question here is what kind of strategies are adopted by different superpowers and oil-related countries. Bush's happens to be macho wars, hegemony, colonization, fear and intimidation. Israel is their enabler and ally. Can't blame the Israelis for hitching a ride and helping a bit with the steering, can we? They all really thought American might and power can pull it off. Russia, China, India's counter strategies are about political maneuvering with the Central Asians, and they have staved off American encroachment from the continental Eurasia for now.

The question of ethics and morals aside (hundreds of thousands of innocents killed, torture, illegal spying, etc.), even from a purely Machiavellian POV, Bush et al. should simply be hanged for incompetence at this cynical power game, and for exposing the paper tiger the US military power really is, when it concerns wars that are fought in places where you can't simply drop nuclear bombs (because of the oil, of course).

One thing you can count on Bush besides being such a good "listener" to the American people- there will be more and worse blunders to come. Iran is shaping up as one.

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Did Israel know???
Posted by: Qwerty on Jan 14, 2006 11:45 AM   
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You've got to be kidding me, right? Of course Israel KNEW, it really has a formidable intelligence structure. What it does with what it knows is another matter. Left-leaning Israelis themselves have been exposing the discrepancies and questioning Israeli "intelligence". Israel is just as complicated as the US, with those who side with the neo-cons and those who think they're lunatics. The lunatics have been selling a bill of goods to American lunatics who are eager to buy, because in the end game, the goods didn't matter as they are only a means.

I suspect that at least American failure in Iraq has demonstrated to Sharon and other extremists the limits of their ally's power, and they are now more willing to negotiate for disengagement from occupied territories.

Do a simple Google search with the words "Israeli intelligence Iraq" for your answers.

Frankly, I don't think it is important if we were all lied to or not. Politicians will ALWAYS lie, ask Chomsky. Forget about appealing to their religion, ethics or morals. They have NONE. Ultimately, we need to debate as to the pros and cons of stupid, dangerous geopolitical warfare to deal with the problem of resource scarcity in a pragmatic, rational manner to defeat the lunatics.

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Sadly Progressives Can Be bigots Too
Posted by: mikespindell on Jan 14, 2006 12:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many if those who claim progressive principles, merely use them as an excuse for their own prejudices. This is evident in the knee-jerk responses to Zunes' original post. Most of which resulted in name-calling rather than reasoned refutation.

My progressive credentials are as good as anyone posting here, including a 41 year career of progressive worklife. But guess what? I can supply a reasoned, progressive analysis for Israel's right to existence and a logical argument as to why the US really has not supported Israel. The problem is that the lack of historical knowledge, in tandem with the prejudice of uninformed pre-judgment exhibited by many who call themselves progressives, makes it a futile effort.

One of the great tip-offs to the prejudice at play here is the constant identifications of the neo-cons as Jewish. A greater percentage of prominent Jews are opposed to Bush, the neo-cons, etc. Most of the neo-cons are neither Zionists, nor Jewish in observance and the support for Israel is tangential to their main support of American hegonomy, big business and big oil.

As a long-time reader of many progressive blogs, as a progressive myself and as a Jew, I've found that much of the anti-Israel discussion is indeed anti-Jewish at base. During the 60's and 70's when I was heavily involved politically with the Movement, I was often shocked by the underlying anti-Jewishness. At the time this was mainly due to the CP and Maoist policy to ingratiate themselves in the Middle East and my confreres following the party line. Some of those who lived through that time never got over it, Mr. Zinn for instance.

As the years have progressed I've never been persuaded to give up my beliefs regarding economic and social justice, nor my living a life commesurrate with those beliefs. However, as an old Yippy I pride myself on critical examination, rather than following anyone's catechism. Unfortunately, many of my fellow progressives use their beliefs as balm for their innate anger and therefore are prone to let their pre-suppositions color their opinions. This has been especially true regarding Israel. This blindness has had unfortunate results in terms of their faulty analysis.





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» RE: "were of that nationality" Posted by: codingguy
Factually correct, but misleading
Posted by: amiabledave on Jan 14, 2006 12:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only rockets exchanged between Iraq and Israel are the ones fired by American-made Israeli Jets firing smart bombs into the basement of Iraq's "once-under-construction" Nuclear facility.

Add that to the matter of Israel of having taken an Arab nation under the British Mandate with American help for its own, premised on religious prophesy, and you need nothing more to assure a future 9/11.

But, of course, there are a thousand reasons, any one of which, would cause one people to attack another.

Imagine if the Zionists had succeeding in carving out a slice of America and declaring it the land of Israel? Would anybody still be angry about that?

No future action was so clearly incribed into a future certainty as the attack on the Trade Towers and the Pentagon, both believed by Arabs to be Israeli operational nests. And, of course, the Jewish neocons, having an incestuous relationship with all honchos of the current White House, acted as powerful agents in sending America's children off to die.

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» factually incorrect Posted by: codingguy
» RE: factually incorrect Posted by: amiabledave
» RE: factually incorrect Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: factually incorrect Posted by: Llama11
» RE: factually incorrect Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: factually incorrect Posted by: amiabledave
» RE: factually incorrect Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: factually incorrect Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: factually incorrect Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: factually incorrect Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: factually incorrect redux #1 Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: factually incorrect redux #2 Posted by: mikespindell
» My general statement Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: My general statement redux Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: My general statement redux 2 Posted by: cold2touch
Hugh
Posted by: HughS on Jan 14, 2006 7:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find the article interesting in that it is an attempt to counter a trend of US public opinion to move away from the sympathy with Israel that has cost it so much since 1967. I have often warned my Israeli friends that the creation of such a trend was a possible consequence of Israel's attempts to manipulate US Middle Eastern policy.
The invasion of Iraq was only possible because three major interest groups found themselves in agreement. The oil and corporate lobby, the Israeli lobby and the Christian Armageddonists who have their own extraordinary reason for "Securing the Realm of Israel." If you look at the outcomes, you can see who benefited most. Certainly the oil lobby didn't get its oil and Armageddon has not (yet) arrived. However, while the oil lobby (the interests of those fighting the US's corner in this march of folly) would best have been served by replacing disobedient and disrespectful Saddam with a more pliant strongman, Israel's long stated ambition has been the Balkanisation of its major potential enemy, Iraq. This it has now achieved (though with some potential adverse spin off in regards to increased risks of terrorism - though if it couldn't live with the risks of terrorism, it wouldn't be treating the Palestinians the way it does!).
The US has also (entirely contrary to US interests) allowed Israel to establish an influential presence in Kurdistan from where it can threaten the Balkanisation of both Iran and Syria. The destruction of Iraq, Iran and Syria was exactly what "A Clean Break" called for. That document was presented to Netanyahu by Mr Perle and its joint authors were Feith and Wurmser. All three of these prominent and avowedly Zionist Neocons, went on to take up major influential position in the Bush machinery that took America into Iraq.
The author of this article does Jews no favours by equating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism - or more acurately disagreeing with some aspects of Israeli's Zionist policies with harbouring hostile anti-semitic racist prejudices. I am Jewish by birth, I now see Zionists in the forefront of a move to assault Iran and I believe their policies misguided both practically and morally. My protesting against this latest Zionist military adventurism (or against Zionist involvment in the Iraq invasion) does not mean I hate myself or my Jewish ancestors or any of my other friends who happen to be Jewish.

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» RE: Hugh Posted by: amiabledave
Can we all AGREE
Posted by: Qwerty on Jan 14, 2006 8:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that our common enemies are those who embark on the dangerous and wanton course of wars, destruction and seizure of other peoples and their land/resources, regardless of their ethnicity or nationality??? Honestly, I don't care if they're Shiites (Chalabi), Kurds, Iranians, Jews, WASPs, Baptist, NeoCons...whatever...the lunatics have to go.

They think that they are securing the interests of their countries, we can see how clearly wrong, immoral and dangerous they have made our world.

We have to fight them (with WHAT I honestly don't know....they've got our names, they're spying on us, they have the military, the media, the voting machines, the foot soldiers....this is tragically funny....), and bring sanity back. We can't do that if we keep fighting eachother instead.

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Peace in the Middle East
Posted by: Qwerty on Jan 14, 2006 8:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And yes, it is imperative that we come to a two-state solution. Imagine that instead of war, mass death and destruction, the 1 to 2 trillion dollars were used to buy whatever oil there is for Americans to feel secure and to develop alternative energy, to provide aid for the Palestinians to build their nation, to pay for water, development and other resources for Israel to thrive. 2000 American soldiers and 100 000 innocent Iraqi men, women and children would still be alive today. Imagine the economic stimulus that development of alternative, sustainable energy will bring, not to mention the building and construction in the Middle East. It's $2000 billion of taxpayers money and debt to be paid by our children, completely wasted on the totally insane destruction of Iraq.

Imagine Peace, and the world loves America instead of the doubt, hate and fear.

Imagine if Gore had been President.

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PNAC
Posted by: tlees2 on Jan 15, 2006 10:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did I miss something. How can you discuss this topic without mentioning PNAC's documents and the people who signed them and then went on to work in W's administration?

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IT'S FINALLY HAPPENED!!!!!
Posted by: Newtopia on Jan 15, 2006 10:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alternet has officially become a Zionist front. Ugh, is there...at long last...no sense of decency?!

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» RE: IT'S FINALLY HAPPENED!!!!! Posted by: JoshuaHolland
» RE: IT'S FINALLY HAPPENED!!!!! Posted by: Newtopia
» RE: IT'S FINALLY HAPPENED!!!!! Posted by: JoshuaHolland
Ms
Posted by: Dianna on Jan 15, 2006 1:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you for your ALMOST not anti-Israel article.
I disagree with the statement that acts of terrorism are "driven by anger, hopelessness, and depseration." It has been found that most suicide bombers are educated, and upper middle cllass, rather than poverty stricken and disenfranchised. In any case, this explanation of terrorism reads like a blanket excuse for murder of innocent civilians.

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» what you LEFT OUT Posted by: Qwerty
» RE: what you LEFT OUT Posted by: codingguy
» RE: what you LEFT OUT Posted by: mim
» RE: Scroll to bottom of comments Posted by: mikespindell
Don't forget paranoia
Posted by: jrpolitics on Jan 15, 2006 2:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To forget paranoia as the number one motivator for war is astonishing, especially when forgotten by Zunes, who lectures on peace and justice.

Mainstream Israeli politics have long been governed by exaggerated fears. For over 50 years the fear of being driven into the sea by the Palestinians was the constantly-voiced rationale for its politics of suppression. Fear was used to justify the need for military superiority, as well as for violations of international law and human rights. In recent years, the phantom nature of this threat became so apparent that new adversaries were needed as placeholders for the threat to the existence of Israel. And those placeholders became Iraq, Iran and Syria, which were identified in the strategic recommendation to Israel’s Likud government by a Jewish-American group led by Douglas Feith, Richard Perle and David Wurmser.

The New American Defense Strategy, formulated under Paul Wolfowitz, linked this agenda to conservative American leanings towards a strong imperial posture. However, this link alone did not provide the paranoia needed to convince Bush1 and Cheney to invade Iraq during the first Gulf War. 9/11 changed that. False evidence was concocted by the same group to connect Iraq with 9/11 and to proffer the lies about Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction.

The US gained little strategic advantage from this war. On the other hand, the US had plenty to lose: Economic stability, the moral leadership of the Western World, and many facets of personal freedom for US citizens. Israel’s gains are enormous. The US military presence in Iraq provides a shield under which Israel can pursue its expansionist politics. The war legitimized its fight against Palestinian “terrorists”. The disregard for UN principles is no longer an Israeli specialty. Israel also advanced to being a strategic partner of the US, which supplies a much-needed rationale for continued US aid.

Using the moral cudgel of anti-Semitism when discussing Israel’s politics does not aid Zunes’ case; it only reveals his true agenda, which is to maintain the taboo hindering an open discussion of Israel’s politics and the ethical and legal questions which arise from the split loyalty of neoconservative Jewish-American activists. This is a very dangerous game. Once the taboo lifts, which will happen sooner or later, a backlash in the form of true anti-Semitism is bound to follow.

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» RE: Don't forget paranoia Posted by: codingguy
» RE: Don't forget paranoia Posted by: codingguy
» RE: Don't forget paranoia Posted by: yellow
» RE: Don't forget paranoia Posted by: codingguy
» RE: Don't forget paranoia Posted by: yellow
» RE: Don't forget paranoia Posted by: codingguy
» RE: Don't forget paranoia Posted by: mikespindell
Stephen Zunes
Posted by: zunes on Jan 15, 2006 2:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The comments to my article say a lot as to why we haven’t been able to stop this war yet.
To being with, I think it is important for people to remember that before you criticize an article, make sure you actually read it.
For example, I never said, never implied, nor do I believe:
* that one has to be Jewish to be a supporter of Israel
* that it is anti-Semitic to be anti-Zionist
* that to criticize, despise, or disdain neo-conservatives is anti-Semitic
* that exaggerating the role of Israel in pushing the U.S. into war was anti-Semitic
* that there is not an influential neoconservative cabal within the Bush administration whose agenda includes U.S. support for the right-wing government of Israel
* that the Bush administration did not lie to the public in order to justify the invasion of Iraq
* that the Israeli government or the neo-cons did not support the U.S. going to war against Iraq

Unless or until I am challenged about what I actually wrote instead of things I never wrote and certainly don’t believe, I’m not going to waste my time responding to such silly allegations.

Anyone familiar with my scholarship, political writing, and activism know that I have been an outspoken opponent of both the Israeli occupation and the U.S. invasion of Iraq. Just check out my previous articles posted here on Alternet as well as on the Common Dreams and Foreign Policy in Focus Project websites. Or, check out the rightwing websites: I am part of the “dirty dozen” listed on the Daniel Pipes’ group Campus Watch for supposedly being “soft on terrorism” because of my criticisms of U.S. Middle East policy as well as being listed as part of David Horowitz’ alleged leftwing “network” under the “anti-Israel” category.

It does strike me particularly odd that so many supposed progressives would essentially try to seek to put most of the blame on some kind of Zionist conspiracy rather than the oil companies, the military-industrial complex, and right-wing American imperialist ideologues. There is something wrong about challenging the progressive credentials of those of us whose try to examine who really wields economic and political power in this country and instead try to blame the government of a small Middle Eastern country and members of an American minority group who identify with that country.

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» RE: Stephen Zunes Posted by: D. Vernon
» RE: Stephen Zunes Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: Stephen Zunes Posted by: alexrahman
Stephen Zunes
Posted by: zunes on Jan 15, 2006 2:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
f they would look into the history of U.S. foreign policy, I can assure that you will find that the U.S. government is capable of doing some really nasty, illegal and counter-productive things, from Vietnam to Central America to Southern Africa to East Timor without the Zionist lobby and its intellectual elites having anything to do with it. It was the product of the combined ideological, strategic and economic interests of the military-industrial complex, corporate elites and U.S. imperialists.

Iraq is no different.

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» RE: Stephen Zunes Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: Stephen Zunes Posted by: Qwerty
» RE: Stephen Zunes Posted by: mikespindell
gramps
Posted by: gramps on Jan 15, 2006 2:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The neo-cons who promoted this war are Zionist tools of the Mossad. They not only started the war against Iraq, but they are now trying to start a war with Iran. The neo-cons are not limited to the White House, they are also in Congress in both parties. Abramhoff sent money to Israel for a sniper school, Lieberman is a hawk, and Dianne Feinsteins husband Blum, is the father of the Carlyle Groups that are getting war contracts. I am a supporter of the True Torah Jews and being anti Zionist is not being anti-semitic.

I was with the third armourd division that liberated Nazi death camps, and am a supporter of the True Torah Jews who are anti Zionist and certainly not anti-semitic.

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» RE: gramps Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: gramps Posted by: Evan Derkacz
» RE: gramps Posted by: codingguy
» RE: gramps Posted by: mikespindell
Antisemitism/Jews as Race
Posted by: Evan Derkacz on Jan 15, 2006 4:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With respect to the antisemitism charges, the crying wolf comments ought to be treated sensitively. It IS true that the charge of antisemitism has been tossed around far too cavalierly by many Jews (and even some non-Jews) -- especially when it comes to criticisms of Israel and Zionism.

But disgust and frustration with unwarranted charges of antisemitism ought not dull the very real presence of antisemitism.

Criticism of Israel CAN be antisemitic. Criticism of Zionism CAN be as well. Ditto for pointing out who is Jewish and who isn't. It fundamentally rests on the level of vitriol, one-sidedness and undue focus many employ when it comes to this particular conflict.

It should also be noted that the pattern of charges here bears a disturbing resemblance to age-old beliefs about Jews. Namely that Jews have a disproportionate amount of power and though not occupying the actual decision-making positions, they're whispering in the ears of the powerful ultimately swaying the policies of their "host" nation and therefore actually in charge.

Read the article again and read Zunes' list of things he DIDN'T say in his comments above. We went to war for a number of reasons, many of which involve oil either directly or indirectly. Zunes doesn't necessarily state that Israel's protection within the neocon world was meaningless and powerless in pushing the Iraq war but that they were far from THE REASON we invaded Iraq.

Finally: Jews are not a RACE... It's an important point. Some have attempted to argue that so and so is Jewish and believes/supports something therefore there's something Jewish about that support.

There is no such thing as Jewish "blood" and pointing to the fact that your aunt's dog's former governess is Jewish does nothing to effect your comments. The very notion of Jewish blood (spoken of affectionately by many Jews themselves) tragically adds to the mistaken and misguided notion of some mystical thread that runs through a different and separate people. There's a religious and cultural Judaism. That's it. That's the whole shebang.

Evan

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» RE: Antisemitism/Jews as Race Posted by: mikespindell
the pots calls the kettle black
Posted by: autolycus on Jan 15, 2006 8:58 PM   
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I get a kick out of persons whose ancestors expropriated the native population of North America and of anyone who reaps the benefits of that expropriation, whether or not their ancestors may have taken part in the expropriating, who righteously take Israel to task for its existence as though "Manifest Destiny" were a Zionist creation. What these responses unintentinally demonstrate, no less than the b.s. of the despised Bush regime, is that might makes right. That's the essence of the Israel-bashing message when it comes from Western, specifically American, mouths.

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Israel and US foreign policy
Posted by: yellow on Jan 15, 2006 10:32 PM   
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I applaud Stephen Zunes for finally setting the record straight!It is clear from many of the responses to the blog posted by Mr. Zunes that the "Socialism of Fools" is alive and well in the world today! Many people take their old, inculcated prejudices with them into their new found Progressive activism. Let me state something clearly for the record; the Jews do NOT run the world or even the US government, neither Israel nor the Jews can make the US government do anything it doesn't already want to do in the service of that which it deems the national interest or the interests of big business, the Israeli tail does not wag the US dog, Israel exists because it is a valued strategic asset of the United States as documented in many US national security directives and memos over the years such as NSDD 5801 which deems Israel militarily essential to defending US interests in the middle east, the conflict and its underlying causes are thoroughly modern and have nothing to do with religion or religious views real or attributed. I wish to also state that I am on record as being an anti-Zionist Jew having written an article this year in Nature, Society and Thought denouncing Zionism as a form of Colonialism and Israel as an oppressive apartheid state. This having been said I must also denounce the anti-semitism on the "left" not for their opposition to Israel but for their essentialization of Jewish ethnic and cultural identity as powermongering and arrogant, for their foolish generalizations about Jews which bear the obvious stamp of conventional prejudices inculcated by traditional Christian religious intolerance, and for the generally bitter and hateful tone whenever Jews and Israel are referred to in normal political discourse. In addition, it must be recognized that Israel never requested US protection. While the US and the rest of the world were busy arming Saddam with amoung other things chemical and biological weapons, the Israelis bombed the Osirik reactor in 1981 which used uranium provided by US allies. Agree or not with the act, it is more likely Israel that protected the US in that instance rather than the reverse. It may also have contributed to the disabling of the Iraqi Nuclear Weapons program and to thier failure to develop such weapons. It is fine to hate Israel for their many transgressions but not to falsely malign them for dragging the US into wars it doesn't need for its security and that the US wants to fight for its own interests.

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» RE: Israel and US foreign policy Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: Israel and US foreign policy Posted by: mikespindell
Can Mr Zunes answer this?
Posted by: Qwerty on Jan 15, 2006 11:51 PM   
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How do you explain the massive amount of disinformation that Israeli intelligence provided to Bush, all widely documented, linking Iraq to 9/11 and insisting that Iraq had huge WMD stockpiles, even when they knew they were false?

On many, many occasions, in the lead-up to the war, Israeli politicians were publicly urging the launching of the war against Iraq, as reported in the American media.

How do you explain this away, in insisting that Israel played no role in the Iraqi war?

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» RE: Can Mr Zunes answer this? Posted by: mikespindell
Israel's role
Posted by: Qwerty on Jan 16, 2006 12:05 AM   
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,999737,00.html

The spies who pushed for war

July 17 2005

The OSP was an open and largely unfiltered conduit to the White House not only for the Iraqi opposition. It also forged close ties to a parallel, ad hoc intelligence operation inside Ariel Sharon's office in Israel specifically to bypass Mossad and provide the Bush administration with more alarmist reports on Saddam's Iraq than Mossad was prepared to authorise.

"None of the Israelis who came were cleared into the Pentagon through normal channels," said one source familiar with the visits. Instead, they were waved in on Mr Feith's authority without having to fill in the usual forms.

The exchange of information continued a long-standing relationship Mr Feith and other Washington neo-conservatives had with Israel's Likud party.
....

The Israeli influence was revealed most clearly by a story floated by unnamed senior US officials in the American press, suggesting the reason that no banned weapons had been found in Iraq was that they had been smuggled into Syria. Intelligence sources say that the story came from the office of the Israeli prime minister.

The OSP absorbed this heady brew of raw intelligence, rumour and plain disinformation and made it a "product", a prodigious stream of reports with a guaranteed readership in the White House. The primary customers were Mr Cheney, Mr Libby and their closest ideological ally on the national security council, Stephen Hadley, Condoleezza Rice's deputy.

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» RE: Israel's role Posted by: yellow
Not supported by facts
Posted by: Qwerty on Jan 16, 2006 12:54 AM   
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Sorry, you and Zunes are just stating opinions. I would like to see facts that COUNTER what a lot of journalists have been reporting out there, in janes.com, in CBS News, in USAToday, in The Guardian, even by Israel's own politicians and think tanks, that Israel has pushed aggressively "intelligence" that Iraq is behind 9/11 and that Iraq has "massive WMD stockpiles" it was ready to launch, even though the actual intelligence were contradictory.

By refusing to address these facts and evidence, and by overplaying the "anti-Semitism" card, you are doing a huge disservice to your reputation. Again, we see the tired pattern, all criticism of Israel, even those based on reported facts, is "motivated" by anti-Semitism, not reality. You'd be better off peddling this on sites like the Free Republic and Fox forums, where you'd find an appreciative red-blooded audience for whom evidence do not matter.

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» RE: Not supported by facts Posted by: mikespindell
Sorry! Didn't see your last post..
Posted by: Qwerty on Jan 16, 2006 12:57 AM   
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I posted the last message before I saw your acknowledgement, yellow. Apologies. Like I said, Israel isn't all Sharon and Likud, and there are a lot of progressives who are offering an alternative to the Israeli "neo-cons".

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I would differ...
Posted by: Qwerty on Jan 16, 2006 1:17 AM   
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based on the enormous effort put into by Israel to influence US public opinion on the matter of Iraq. Of course the intelligence are welcomed by Bush/Cheney, they fit into their agenda. You must realize that there was an "echo chamber" (coined by journalists) into which intelligence, mostly of Israeli and Chalabi origin (not to mention Chalabi was recommended by the Israelis to the Neo-Cons...) was pinged, and the "intelligence" was shaped into a product to be marketed to Americans by Cheney. Israeli generals, agents, etc. routinely visited the White House, without signing in, before the Iraqi invasion, according to former staffers. Also, it isn't true that Isarel did not view Saddam as a threat, why else would they have bombed Iraq's nuclear facilities even at the time when Iraq was America's ally?

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Who rules?
Posted by: zunes on Jan 16, 2006 10:43 AM   
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If people are so eager to find a religious tradition that has a disproportionate number of its people in powerful positions that influence U.S. foreign policy, it is Episcopalians (which happens to be my background.) Though barely half the size of the United States' Jewish population, you will find far more Episcopalians in Congress, among the military's top brass, within top positions of the administration, and in corporate boardrooms than you will find Jews.

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» RE: Who rules? Posted by: yellow
» RE: Who rules? Posted by: mikespindell
Strawmen alert! Comparing apples and oranges
Posted by: Qwerty on Jan 17, 2006 12:20 AM   
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The original poster digressed from the topic by suddenly asking why suicide bombers commit their deeds even though they are not the most oppressed of their oppressed people.

This incredible stupidity beggars belief. To make an extreme comparison, it is as if someone would ask, "Why would German Jews who weren't in the worst situiation (i.e. sent to concentration camps) take it upon themselves to fight the Germans?"

When someone with a strong sense of morality witnesses injustice, cruelty, murder, brutality by one superiorly armed group against another, no matter the background, the ethnicity, the skin color, s/he might be motivated to "right" the wrongs by inflicting carnage on the oppressor group by whatever means available to him/her.

Suicide bombing is a TECHNIQUE, a TOOL, a sub-set of what is commonly termed as "Terrroism," the targeting of military and civilian sites for destruction by a group operating in secret, usually because they are vastly inferior in their military might. It seems this is an unacceptable way of fighting. Only tanks, missiles, cluster bombs and F-16s are allowed to kill en masse, PLEASE!!!!

Don't insult us with the propaganda that terrorists target civilians and armies target enemies and whatever civilians killed are "collateral damage".

It is perfectly "understandable" for Israel to kill hundreds and thousands of Palestinians and seize their land, but completely inhumane of the Palestinians to fight back with suicide bombings killing tens or hundreds.

It is abhorent for Al Qaeda to kill 3000 Americans but perfectly acceptable when America kills 100 000 Iraqis, mostly civilians, there goes your warped logic.

And it seems more acceptable when terrorists do not blow themselves up together with their target, like the IRA or the ETA. I wonder why?

Only those throwing a strawman will infer that the contexts where it is used is ALWAYS the same, eg. Japanese kamikazes are to be compared with Palestinians! Japanese culture and the meaning of suicide is another topic altogether. It may also be a Muslim belief that killing is wrong, and that suicide is a form of penance, who knows. Why don't you ask the Palestinians why they do it?

Would you be placated if they don't kill themselves, but leave bombs in crowded places instead???

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Sick of "Progressives"
Posted by: Qwerty on Jan 17, 2006 3:35 AM   
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like mikespindell who wilfully ignore and deny any evidence of Israeli wrongdoings or misdeeds and who accuse anyone who points it out of being anti-Semites.

How is this different from the Fox audience who cannot see any possibility of wrongdoing by America, and accuse anyone who points it out to be anti-America???

Don't smear the messenger, address the evidence.

If you have compelling evidence to the contrary, then post it, I'll be glad to see, instead of the poor argument that "since it did not benefit Israel, Israel cannot be blamed for it". You might as well say, "since the Iraq war didn't bring any benefits to America, America couldn't have been responsible for it."

If you refuse to face up to the truth, how can you correct the mistakes that lead to this huge mess?

Anti-Semitism does exist, but please, deal honestly with it. Dishonesty is when anyone who is critical of specific acts and deeds of Israel is inevitably painted as racist, regardless of the merit of his/her case.

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» RE: Sick of "Progressives" Posted by: yellow
» RE: Sick of "Progressives" Posted by: codingguy
» RE: Sick of "Progressives" Posted by: mikespindell
» RE: Sick of "Progressives" Posted by: mikespindell
Leave us out of this
Posted by: Rafi on Jan 19, 2006 2:05 PM   
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I don't know how many Isrealis there are debating this issue here, but I'm one, so you might want to listen.

First of all there is no "Israel" like there is no "US" doing things. Israeli politics is much more diverse and complicated than most of you can even begin to imagine. There was an Israeli majority for the war, and the anti-war protest was minor, but it wasn't a big issue here. Part of the fact that Israelis were biased against Sadam and Iraq's Ba'ath was simple : Iraq was in an ongoing state of war with Israel ever since 1948. Unlike few of Israel's neighbors that negotiated peace, or fought and then negotiated a truce, Iraq officially kept its war status with Israel. Sadam sending us missiles once in a while didn't add to his grace. That's why people here didn't feel an urgent need to join the anti-war movement.

Official Israel didn't do much. It would be hard to name any important Israeli official talking on the subject. It was hardly even mentioned here.

So Israel didn't do much on this, but writing this I've come to realize one thing : suppose Israel, or Israelis, or Israel's supporters did actually oppose Sadam. Wouldn't one expect it to hold that position against a regime that was in an ongoing war with it, and called for its total destruction ? What would any American anywhere feel about any nation that calls for the total destruction of the US ? One key factor that's missing in many political debates is the following : What did the world ever do to counter the genocidal "kill Israel" politics of the arab world ? In two words : Nothing. Ever. The latest outcry against Iran (a muslim and not an arab country, common mistake) is new and comes mostly from the new fear of EU countries that find themselves in the range of Iranian long range missiles and terrorists that could carry nukes. If oil had anything to do with western positions in the middle east within and after the cold war it played a part against Israel.

In short, this war was a US war. Not Israeli, not Jewish, not about Israeli religion and holy places. Americans, and especially Europeans should learn to take responsibility for their own actions. It was Europe and the US sponsoring the maniacs of the middle east for decades, and it is their turn to worry about the nut cases of the world. Israelis are satisfied worrying about what's happening here. It's more than enough, and more than the US or average EU country could handle.

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» RE: Leave us out of this Posted by: yellow
to codingguy and mike s.
Posted by: yellow on Jan 22, 2006 10:03 PM   
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My only reason for pointing out the doctrine of choseness was to stress the way in which old testiment protestants in the late 17th, 18th and 19th century drew ideological sustainance from the Bible in equating themselves with the Hebrews in the story of Joshua in the invasion of Canaan when as english settlers they took the native lands of north america and justified it by concieving themselves as chosen according to new divinely ordained qualities such as a modern work ethic, belief in private property and the "social progress" it engenders, discipline, and thrift and deferred gratification. These ideals were suited to the new capitalist project and were duely conflated with Protestant beliefs which, the European settlers felt, made them more worthy of or more chosen to occupy the native's land. The natives, whose culture was anathema to that of the Europeans, were deemed unworthy savages as surely the Hebrews deemed the canaanites they encountered only for different reasons. Micheal Prior, in his brilliant work, The Bible and Colonialism, elaborates on this argument whereby he cites the narrative in the story of Joshua as the earliest legitamation of "ethnic cleansing" in western history which was used over and again as a potent image in the western colonial experience. I believe also the French Marxist Maxime Rodinson also makes a passing reference to the biblical connections to modern poitical culture. As regards modern anti-semitism and Israel I part company with much of the left in that I beleive anti-semitism is a real phenomenon and not a red herring used by the far right to discredit anti-zionism. I don't believe that Israel in our current epoch can offer much of a solution. Israel isn't to secure without US support and if the US went fascist most likely the anti-zionist faction of the far right would prevail making anywhere in the world a dangerous place for Jews and many others. The fate of the Jews is tied to real democracy and the struggle for social equality not only in the US but globally. Only by creating a better world are Jews and everyone safe from the collapse of the liberal state and the rise of fascism portended by intense capitalist crisis. Israel and the occupation of Palestinian lands only brings us closer to the collapse of democracy by aggravating the current crisis.

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