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Readers Write: Jews Say 'Feh' to Darwin

By Evan Derkacz, AlterNet. Posted January 10, 2006.


Our latest article on 'intelligent design' pushed a lot of hot buttons among our readers.

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As regular AlterNet readers are well aware, few topics have the power to spleen readers like Bush, racism or religion. Mariah Blake's recent story on a debate within Florida's Orthodox Jewish community over intelligent design, Jews Say 'Feh' to Darwin, was certainly no exception, drawing over 200 comments, many of which were thoughtful, witty and wise. Others, not so much.

Because of the article's focus, and the tendency for any discussion of ID and evolution to devolve into the same old debate over which more accurately describes "reality," this Readers Write will focus on the issues directly raised in the article.

We've seen debate begin with the first line of a story, but seldom with the title, which several readers took issue with (conveniently, I happen to be the editor responsible). Alan Sharavsky, who kvells before kvetching, notes: "In your zeal to [be] brief and clever, your headline was completely misleading. Jews in general DO NOT endorse Intelligent Design. Orthodox Jews may, and perhaps not all of them"

Calling it "irresponsible journalism," ruthmarcia writes: "It is important to know that ONLY 5 PERCENT of American Jews consider themselves 'Orthodox' -- with an undetermined number of this 5 percent adhering to 'Intelligent Design.'"

gary_7vn responds at least as well as I could've: "At no point did my reading of the article lead me to conclude that 'all Jews' had abandoned evolutionary theory, and it was also pretty clear that even within the Orthodox community, ID is a very contentious theory. I think they did get it right, a headline is a headline, not the whole story."

AlterNet's own Josh Holland chimes in with a little headline writing 101: "Editors are looking for titles that attract your attention as a reader. How closely they reflect the substance of the article varies, but that's always going to be job #2."

"Which is not to dismiss your comment. It's just that this piece has a lot of traffic and a lot of discussion, so the headline was a good one as far as its purpose goes."

jfreed, writing "as a Jew," has mixed feelings about the fact that the ID debate is touching Judaism at all: "I'm kind of ashamed to hear about fellow Jews who support intelligent design On the other hand, I am relieved that the Orthodox community is debating the issue, rather than pushing one particular viewpoint. Debate (read: disagreement) over religious and ethical principles is a cornerstone of Judaism."

Arolem responds: "As a Jew, you might remember that we're not a centralized, single-voiced religious body. Rather than accept the headline's false premise that these few men represent all Jews, why not simply speak up for the overwhelming majority of us who do NOT support the teaching of ID in schools, public or Jewish?"

"As a Jew, I'm ashamed that you're ashamed."

Doubtom writes: "Most of the Jews I know are atheists, which might be the logical outcome of any group that dares to question all aspects of religion." Noting that religious bodies must constantly revise doctrine to suit the vicissitudes of contemporary culture, he writes: "Such elasticity in doctrine while very convenient for con men, should compel catholics to question the remainder of this doctrine, until finally, on some bright dawn, the revelation is completed; that all religions are pure bullshit, control devices of clever as well as pretentious con men. On that wonderful day, we can crawl out of our cave of ignorance and face reality."

TagsNOLA responds (albeit to an earlier iteration of that same argument): "Your question, 'Who knows were we might be today but for the stultifying effect off religion???' implies that it is religion that has been the root of all evil. Indeed, much evil has come from that quarter. But removal of the influence of organized religion did not make for particularly free or progressive societies in the USSR under Stalin, in the PRC under Mao or in DPRK under Kim Il Sung & Kim Jong Il. Notwithstanding removal of religion's 'stultifying effects' under these regimes, 'ignorance,' along with other evils, managed nevertheless to 'proliferate.'"


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Evan Derkacz is AlterNet's associate editor and writer of Peek, the blog of blogs.

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lol
Posted by: kittynboi on Jan 10, 2006 4:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, its nice to be quoted.

But really. Its hard to remain calm and level headed about topics of religion, because of the religious right.

The religious right is getting more and more aggressive, and people who are its targets, such as gays (who are, right now, a target like no other for them.) react defensively.

Considering how the religious right has treated gays and how it regards free speech and free inquiry these days, its a little hard to feel a lot of sympathy for them when someone starts talking about how we're being "intolerant" of them.

If the religious right can't take the heat of intolerance, then they shouldn't dish it out.

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» RE: lol Posted by: wildeyes
» RE: lol Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: lol Posted by: tomcat
Questions about intelligent design
Posted by: kirkmuse on Jan 10, 2006 6:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems to me that there are a lot more questions than answers regarding intelligent design.


If an intelligent designer created the universe, who or what created this intelligent designer? What did this intelligent designer do before it created the universe? Where did this intelligent designer get the material to create the universe?


Why can the universe not have existed forever if the creator of the universe can exist forever? Could it be that the "Big Bang" was not really the beginning, but rather just one cycle in a series of endless cycles?


I believe that there are about 200 billion stars in our medium sized galaxy known as the Milky Way and that there are about 400 billion galaxies in the known universe (plus or minus a few hundred trillion).

The Earth is like one grain of sand upon all the beaches of the world.


Was the universe created for one of the inhabitants of just one of those grains of sand

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No Life in the Universe! ID a moot point! I can prove it!
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking on Jan 10, 2006 11:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is an infinite number of planets in the universe. This is a given, as that we don't know how many planets there are.

There is an finite number of planets in the universe that can support life. This is a given because not all planets can support life.

If you divide an unfinite number by a finite number, you get 0. That's why there is no life in the universe!

I learned these facts in high school math class. Where I learned nothing is something, something is nothing, and if you have less than nothing, you still have something because a negative number can be multiplied. I also learned that the highest known number is "google" which is described by the numeral "1" followed by ten trillion zeros!. If you wrote one zero a second, starting at birth, it wold take you 72 years to write ONE trillion zeros! It would take you 720 years to write the number google. Nobody has ever seen this number described or has ever seen a google of anything. Even if they had it would take them aproximately 72,000 years to count it to find out what they had!

After math class I went straight to smoke pot! That and only that is the only reason I'm not sitting in a room with rubber wallpaper, crouched in the corner, staring at not a damned thing with an expression on my face that never changes!

Oh well! Time for another joint!

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» RE: Dude! You're all serious and shit! Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
The Point of Good Journalism ...
Posted by: AdamSelene11726 on Jan 10, 2006 12:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
QUOTE If the point of good journalism is to stimulate discussion and broaden the debate, the comments on Feh more than adequately answer that question.ENDQUOTE ...

That's Fox News' idea of good journalism: stimulate interest, stimulate revenues.

You are no longer concerned with 'what happened" you can concentrate on 'what does my demographic want to hear' -- then you can sex it up from there.

"Feh" was good at pushing buttons, if nothing else. According to the ever-declining standards of AlterNet discourse that's good enough.

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» But was "Feh" was good journalism ? Posted by: AdamSelene11726
race or religion
Posted by: lamar on Jan 10, 2006 12:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hmm, is that the race part of judaism or the religion part?

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kittynboi
Posted by: Bree in Idaho on Jan 10, 2006 1:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Growing up in Southern Idaho as a non-Christian, I completely understand your feelings about religion, which I'm sure is amplified by being gay. However, just as a point of fact, Reform Judaism is completely open and accepting of gays and lesbians. One of the things I love about being Jewish is that I can be in a congregation led by a lesbian rabbi. Just an FYI in response to the comment posted above.

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Its open season on Anti-Semetism
Posted by: jolo on Jan 11, 2006 3:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I first want to say that any person who is gay, single parents, non-Jews, couples from Inter-marraige are totally welcome at the Temple I go to in Colorado Springs. Temple Beit-Torah. For example, I am Jewish and I am raising my three boys that way, an agreement I had with my Catholic wife who really didn't have strong feelings about it.
Because our family are members of the Temple, my wife, a non-Jew, IS STILL A VOTING MEMBER !!

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Lamar, please donm't comment
Posted by: jolo on Jan 11, 2006 3:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lamar,

I don't know OR want to know about your snide comment.

But don't say anything about what it means to be Jewish, race or religion until you have some understanding of it.

Those who are ignorant of others history should not get into anything that is based on bigotry, misinformation and prejudice.

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It's easier in my religion...
Posted by: carcinoid112 on Jan 11, 2006 8:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In our church, where we have members that are Jewish, Muslim, agnostic, athiest, Buddhist, Wiccan, Satanists, Autotheists and Polyreligious, as well as Christians, and probably 15 others I can't remember, we don't have the problems you all seem to. At the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, we are all equal in His Noodly Eyestalks.

Don't believe the stuff you read somewhere else, come see for yourself. Our forum church is diverse, spirited, educational and lots of fun. Bring your good manners, though. The Administrator's a mean one if you're rude. (That would be me, the Admin.)

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rover
Posted by: Roverton on Jan 12, 2006 1:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
CHRISTIANS!

TEND TO THINE OWN HOUSE!!!

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