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Democracy and Delusion in Iraq

By Larry C. Johnson, AlterNet. Posted December 16, 2005.


Bush's vision that Iraq will become a launching pad for a new era of peace among the nations in the region ignores what is actually taking place on the ground.

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With voting already underway in Iraq we should harbor no illusion about the ultimate outcome -- the Iraqi Shias with the closest ties to Iran will secure the largest share of the votes. George Bush is right about one thing; this vote is likely to remake the face of the Middle East. Unfortunately, his vision that Iraq will become a launching pad for a new era of peace and understanding among the nations in the region is not only farfetched, but ignores what is actually taking place on the ground.

A few hundred miles to the west, the radical Muslim Brothers (spiritual kin of the Wahabis of Saudi Arabia) have secured an historic place in the Egyptian legislature. Despite intense pressure by the Mubarak government they rallied their supporters and got out the vote. At least they heeded Bush's call for democracy. On the northern border of Iraq, in Turkey, the Islamists also are on the upswing. And let's not forget Lebanon, where forces with close ties to Iran are consolidating power and influence. Remember, Hezbollah is no longer a rag tag band of terrorists, instead it has grown into a disciplined de facto Army of Lebanon.

We are unwilling to come to grips with a very simple truth -- the majority of people in the Middle East prefer an Islamic rather than a secular government. Economic development does not ensure a steady march towards a secular, diverse society. Heavens (irony intended) just look at us. Despite our economic prowess and alleged sophistication, religious fundamentalists in our own country have succeeded in bringing great pressure to bear on our government and our media.

So, what does all of this mean? In the coming year the Shia-led government in Iraq will flex its new muscle. They will expand beyond the two torture centers already discovered and press ahead with their campaign against the Sunnis. While there are some secular Shia who willingly mingle with Sunni neighbors, the Shia activists with the guns are religiously driven and intent on ensuring the new government pays proper homage to their particular faith.

Don't be surprised if we find ourselves helping out Al Zarqawi, the Jordanian Sunni who hates Shias more than he hates Americans. War can make strange bedfellows. Notwithstanding George Bush's cry that we can't have a timetable for withdrawal, the U.S. will start cutting and running from Iraq in January 2006. The current plan is for U.S. counter insurgency operations to be dramatically scaled back by next summer.

What we've failed to appreciate is that most people in the region believe that a country as large and as rich as the United States is actually executing a secret plan. In other words, the car bombings and chaos are, according to their own belief, part of a deliberate plan by us. They find it impossible to believe that we are genuinely confused, divided and deluded about what to do in Iraq.

As we exit Iraq in the coming months we must try to reinforce our ties to those Sunni and Shia Iraqis who are sincerely committed to living in a secular, tolerant society. Regrettably those souls are few and, in the coming years, will probably find it necessary to seek refuge in Europe from the sectarian war that will sweep Iraq.

We must also be mindful that our "exit" from Iraq will be along the supply line that runs south thru Kuwait. Whether we have to fight our way out of Iraq will be determined in part by whether the new Shia rulers believe we pose a threat to their position. Our ability to expose and liberate torture centers is likely to become more compromised as the new democracy in Iraq takes hold. Why? Because at the end of the day, a majority of Shias are likely to feel quite justified in torturing the Sunnis who had inflicted pain and suffering on the Shias for so many generations. If the blood lust takes hold we will just have to remind ourselves what a wonderful thing democracy is, particularly when a majority decides to act in what it perceives as its own best interest. Power to the people.

Digg!

Larry C. Johnson is the Managing Partner and founder of BERG Associates, LLC, an international business-consulting firm based in Washington, D.C. Prior to forming BERG, Mr. Johnson worked with the Central Intelligence Agency (1985-1989) and the Department of State's Office of the Coordinator for Counter Terrorsim (1989-1993).

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Barbara
Posted by: Barbara on Dec 16, 2005 3:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
An exit from Iraq ? Hardly. Not with so much loot at stake. Billions have gone into building military bases in Iraq. So, the troops will temporarily withdraw. And, the bombing raids will begin with a vengance on the Iraq population, smashing them into submission. The same way that they did in Vietnam when the troops with withdrawn.

Only, this time, once the population have been pounded with bombs day and night, for weeks on end,..( we've got allot of bombs to spare ) the troops will return , after their rest, and guard the development of the oil fields.

This display of agression will also seve as a warning to other middle eastern countries, should they happen to not " comply " the what America wants. Because what America wants, it will bomb it's way to get.

Going from past history of the way America deals with oposition, I'd put money on my prediction.

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Hahahaa, this commentary was actually funny!
Posted by: Pepper on Dec 16, 2005 4:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am still laughing.

The incredible amount of irony in this commentary made me laugh during the entire article. Our leaving Iraq will simply leave behind that which they have now.

Those poor people have put up with Saddam and his torture chambers, the US and our torture chambers (except we do sexual torture on children and even Saddam didn't do that), and leave it to a "new" group to do torture chambers. This irony did not escape me one little bit. As if anything will change for the average Iraqi. NOT! Only it will not be done by foreigners. That is the best you can say at this point.

What else? I will go back and read again, but there were quite a few things in this commentary that made me think this man is not up on what is really going on. Give me a minute to reread.

Oh, yes, this one; " his vision that Iraq will become a launching pad for a new era of peace and understanding among the nations in the region is not only farfetched, but ignores what is actually taking place on the ground."

Aaaah, excuse me? Whose vision is this? You mean the old oil executive? The bankers best friend? The guy who made chickenhawk Wolfowitz head of the world bank? Hahahahaha Bush having a vision that isn't directly related to money, power and greed is an "oxymoron". How naive!!

Then there was this comment: "Don't be surprised if we find ourselves helping out Al Zarqawi, the Jordanian Sunni who hates Shias more than he hates Americans. War can make strange bedfellows"

Where have you been? That man has been dead for over a year. He is the new excuse we use to justify what ever we decide to do. They couldn't use Bin Laden since he is dead in Afganistan, so they created him instead. This is a man with a wooden leg who limps and yet every video of him (supposedly) with his face covered, yet identified by the US as Zarqawi, has no limp!

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Continued from post above.
Posted by: Pepper on Dec 16, 2005 4:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then there was this one: "In other words, the car bombings and chaos are, according to their own belief, part of a deliberate plan by us. They find it impossible to believe that we are genuinely confused, divided and deluded about what to do in Iraq."

SO DO WE!!!!!! I agree with them and am glad to hear they see through this ruse we have all been hand fed. What surprises me is the author is ignorant of what is going on with death squads and british soldiers caught red handed in terrorists clothing committing terrorist acts in the name of the insurgency. Don't you read????? Now Iraq police are doing the same thing. Its in the news, just not the mainstream press. Its being reported by those courageous reporters imbedded with troops and insurgents in Iraq. Unbelievable that he doesn't know all this.

Another reason we won't truly leave is the HARVESTING OF ORGANS WE ARE DOING AND DELIVERING BACK TO THE US. That was in a british paper about a year ago. Its a real scandel over there. That is why they are doing the black ops, to get those organs undamaged. Why do you think they use contractors instead of soldiers in some areas??? Please, give me a break here. If I didn't know any better I would say this was a subtle disinformation piece written. Forgive my cynicism, but we have seen so much of this that the truth becomes difficult to ferret out and so I am suspicious of everyone right now on both sides of the political spectrum

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» Au contraire, mon ami Posted by: jwg
» RE: Au contraire, mon ami Posted by: Pepper
» RE: Continued from post above. Posted by: HuckFinn
» RE: Continued from post above. Posted by: dennyduke@earthlink.net
Ha
Posted by: owlsliveintrees on Dec 16, 2005 5:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow, Alternet needs to dig pretty deep to find someone to shit talk the elections. Someone who hasn't be involved in shit for 20 years. Great Job. Unfortunately, unlike the economy, I doubt the anti-war left can talk down democracy.

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» RE: Yeah, you'd think that, wouldn't you? Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
We are sending them Democracy, check it out.
Posted by: bookwoman on Dec 16, 2005 6:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As I listened to stories about the vote in Iraq yesterday, two things have occured to me. We really are exporting our current form of democracy. The Iraquis will now know how it feels to not have enough voting booths so that you have to go home without voting, and what it is like to spend four years bemoaning the "majority" choice of President.

As for peace spreading out in the Middle East due to the vote in Iraq, if you want to lose some sleep, read Richard Clarke's latest book, "The Scorpion Gate". Its "fiction" we hope. However, given Mr. Clarke's knowledge, experience and propensity to see what is coming down the road, it may be much too real. I would have to assume that, considering the tussles Mr. Clarke has had in the past with the Administration, the Bushies won't read this book either.

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The neocons have their own definition of democracy
Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 16, 2005 6:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
According to most staunch "conservatives", installing puppet regimes to promote fear and more terrorism is called democracy. Maybe that's sounds too "lefty" to them but even most true moderates and reasonable conservatives would have to wonder "What the hell are the troops doing in Iraq if there really is any democracy over there?" It's bad enough that in 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2004 the GOP gave America a bad rap by stealing elections and trying to accuse Democrats of it. Rigging elections in Iraq is even worse as that would make it easier for insurgents to brainwash harmless Iraqis who feel threatened by foreign occupation to join the club. If you really want to know how bad it can get in Iraq and Afganistan, just take a look at the relentless terrorism and insecurity in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Libya, and Pakistan as a result of puppet regimes. It's time to clean both the Republicans and Democrats first. After all, you can't give democracy to another country if you don't have any in your own country.

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"HEY, HUCKFINN, COME ON DOWN HERE AND READ THE LINKS".
Posted by: Pepper on Dec 16, 2005 9:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sorry, I was under the mistaken impression you were educated. I had no idea you were only superficially knowledgeable about what we are doing over there. I guess you are one of the victims of the mainstream propoganda here in the states. I hope you will forgive me my assumptions since you post here, I assumed you knew more than you obviously do. Don't be so emotional about it either. Here is something to calm you down.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed (your obviously in this stage), and third, it is accepted as self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

Ok, here you are big guy, this is the one about the organ harvesting. This is a british publication.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2619

Now here is one about the US backed death squads. (you will have to cut and paste these links since they make me separate them.

http://www.axisoflogic.com/cgi-bin/exec/view.pl?

archive=123&num=13074


I can't find the one about the british just right now. I have so many I will track it down and get back to you.

Here is the report on Seymour Hersh who is investigating what he SAW on video and a quote so you don't have to bother your brain by reading the whole thing, but you can if you want to. Here is the link and the quote

(continue on to next post)

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Continued from above
Posted by: Pepper on Dec 16, 2005 9:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=1662

"Among these stories, none is potentially more devastating than the one that seems to combine those missing "children's prisons" and those never-to-be-reconstituted "rape rooms." We know that New Yorker reporter Seymour Hersh is on the trail of the story of the rape and sodomizing of young, imprisoned Iraqis, possibly by Americans, or at least viewed by and filmed by Americans, in Abu Ghraib and that he plans to write it up sooner or later. ("The worst is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking…") In the meantime, Neil MacKay of the Glasgow Morning Herald in an investigation (Iraq's Child Prisoners) based on UNICEF documents writes:

"It's not certain exactly how many children are being held by coalition forces in Iraq, but a Sunday Herald investigation suggests there are up to 107. Their names are not known, nor is where they are being kept, how long they will be held or what has happened to them during their detention."

In other words, we hold not only "ghost detainees" in our global gulag, but "ghost children" in our Iraqi detention system. He reports:

"A detention centre for children was established in Baghdad, where according to ICRC (International Committee of the Red Cross) a significant number of children were detained. UNICEF was informed that the coalition forces were planning to transfer all children in adult facilities to this ‘specialised' child detention centre. In July 2003, UNICEF requested a visit to the centre but access was denied. Poor security in the area of the detention centre has prevented visits by independent observers like the ICRC since last December."

In the meantime, Rolling Stone magazine has gotten its media hands on the 106 "annexes" to the Taguba Report on Abu Ghraib that the Pentagon long held back from Congress. And these, as recounted in an Osha Gray Davidson piece, The Secret File of Abu Ghraib, make grim reading indeed, right down to eyewitness accounts of the sexual abuse of children and, of course, of adults, stripped, beaten, humiliated and then made to climb upon one another, forming what were called "dog piles" for prison-photo ops.

SEE REMAINDER AND FINAL INFO IN NEXT POST DOWN.

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Continued from above
Posted by: Pepper on Dec 16, 2005 9:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This term, unsurprisingly, fits oh so well with the comments of General Geoffrey Miller, commander of our hell-hole in Guantanamo ("Gitmo"), who was dispatched by Donald Rumsfeld himself to get our Iraqi detention system extracting information more efficiently, and considered efficiency and dogs to be one and the same. "

Here is another one quoting Seymour Hersh's speech at the University of Chicago. He was so emotional he couldn't even write about it yet.

http://www.tomdispatch.com/indexprint.mhtml?pid=1497

Quote from Hersh:
"He said that after he broke Abu Ghraib people are coming out of the woodwork to tell him this stuff. He said he had seen all the Abu Ghraib pictures. He said, 'You haven't begun to see evil...' then trailed off. He said, 'horrible things done to children of women prisoners, as the cameras run.' He looked frightened…."

Here is the ones about the Bush sex boys and their employees, these are really sick puppies, I am telling you. (here we go again, having trouble with these links on this site. cut and paste ok???

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Media/021805Madsen/

021805madsen.html




http://www.newyorker.com/printables/talk

/051107ta_talk_collins


will do the same here.

http://sandiego.indymedia.org/en

/2003/03/4516.shtml


and here

http://www.rense.com/general61

/appallingconspiracyof.htm


and here

http://www.rense.com/general57

/newbook.htm

Now this link above mentions GW's boyfriend and how the handlers got him out of wa by making him ambassador to Poland, here is the link about him being ambassador.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/biog/34697.htm

This includes Daddy Bush's administration as well. Does anyone remember this one?

http://www.thelawparty.org/FranklinCoverup/franklin.htm

Ok, got any questions??? Now you do your own research, look for Seymour Hershs speech at the University of Chicago where he talks at length about what he saw in those videos being done to children. OK?

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» RE: Continued from above Posted by: Plexius
"You Can Check Out Any Time You Want, But You Can Never Leave."
Posted by: monkeywrench on Dec 16, 2005 9:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I echo other commentators here: leave Iraq? Who are you trying to kid? We went there for OIL: the Saudi Royal Family is barely holding onto power by supporting the very same terrorist organizations that attack us; and their oil fields have passed their prime and require steam- and water-injection to keep producing adequately. In blatant contrast, Iraq is sitting on the second-largest known oil reserves in the world, largely untapped and with oil that comes out of the ground on its own. This comes to us at a time when India's and China's competition for the oil we have taken for granted is exploding. Also, Iraq has a relatively well-educated population that will work for peanuts, some very rich agricultural land, at least for the Middle East, and thus are ripe for the same kind of World Bank/IMF/WTO piracy that was done to Argentina and other South American countries, only this time under the thumb of a military occupation. Not to mention the fact that by establishing permanent military bases in Iraq (14 under construction at last count), we will have a forward stronghold with which to rapidly counter any 'funny stuff' from those other pesky Islamic nations in the area.

Nobody kid yourselves: there is no friggin' way that we are actually going to walk away from all that booty – we'll find a way to keep the Jolly Roger flying.

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Sad opinion
Posted by: pg on Dec 16, 2005 12:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
News wires are reporting that 11 million people went to the polls in Iraq which is 70% of their registered voters (a much bigger turnout than we get in the USA) and these beleaguered people are risking their lives to vote.

Regardless of your opinion of the war, its origin or merits it was a great day for the people of Iraq. I doubt the Iraqi voters who risked their lives to participate in democracy share your defeatism.

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» RE: Sad opinion Posted by: Pepper
» RE: Sad opinion Posted by: tcx2
» pg, wake it up Posted by: cyclone
» RE: pg, wake it up Posted by: Barbara
» RE: pg, wake it up Posted by: cyclone
trace
Posted by: trace on Dec 16, 2005 4:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
blood flows from every body all a sea of life here and now aho

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» RE: trace Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
montana freeman
Posted by: montana freeman on Dec 20, 2005 8:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
my friend borrows my computer ,she is quite looney ,as you might of guessed.

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» RE: montana freeman Posted by: Againstthewindwalking