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The Guerrilla War Against Cheap Lettuce

By Ben Ehrenreich, The Believer. Posted December 16, 2005.


Paranoid and frightened, the anti-immigrant group that calls itself the Minutemen mourn the American dream, patrolling the Mexico-U.S. border in their SUVs.
121605_story
REUTERS/Fred Greaves

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If you drive far enough south in Douglas, Arizona, you eventually hit the wall. You'll pass through tidy avenues lined with new ranch homes and the stately old brick houses built for mining officials back when Douglas was a company town, when there were jobs here besides those offered by the Border Patrol, Wal-Mart, and the prison up the road. But this is the Sonoran desert, despite the lawns, and minitornadoes of red dust keep whipping themselves up in the streets and just as quickly dissolving. Then the avenues give way to a long, straight unpaved road, then a drainage ditch, and then the wall.

Constructed of adjoining rectangles of corrugated steel built to serve as landing strips for American planes in Vietnam, the wall climbs at least ten feet high for miles to the east and west, a rust-colored scar on the surface of the desert. When it passes through a wash, the landing mats are replaced by tall rectangular steel girders filled with cement, spaced just widely enough that water can pass between them, but not human limbs. Through those spaces, you can see into Mexico--more red dirt and skinny ocotillos, a thirsty-looking cow, a makeshift grave of piled stones and plastic orange flowers, the same blue sky.

If you linger here for more than a moment, the lenses on the Border Patrol camera towers will spot you, or you'll trip a magnetic sensor or a seismic one, and one of the nearly 10,000 Border Patrol agents stationed along the 2,000-mile southern boundary will roll up behind you in a Jeep, lights flashing. If you are allowed to drive on, big-eared desert hares will leap in front of your tires, and more dust devils will rise and twirl to the right and to the left. Then the wall will block your view again until, without warning, about five miles east of town, it comes to an abrupt end, and nothing but a few sad strands of torn barbed wire remain to bisect the enormity of the desert.

It's hard not to laugh out loud: all this mad fuss over so much nothingness. What are we so afraid of?

How it all began

Jim Gilchrist's home is a good nine-hour drive from the barren stretch of Arizona desert about which he has become so insistently concerned. Despite this distance, Gilchrist has for months now been planning to erect a human fence along the imaginary line separating the United States from Mexico, to station volunteers armed with binoculars, radios, and often pistols at quarter-mile intervals in an effort to protect what they and Gilchrist understand to be America from all that it is not. Gilchrist is a retired CPA, and lives with his wife and two aging Chihuahuas in a modest yellow stucco town house behind the walls of a gated subdivision in Orange County, California. Nearly all of the surrounding streets have Spanish names (Calle Cortez is not far), and even the car washes have Mexican-tiled roofs.

It is late March, and the Minuteman Project won't begin for another week, but Gilchrist's phone is already ringing every few minutes with calls from ABC News or Congressman Tom Tancredo's office. One of the Chihuahuas dozes on the couch in a mauve-and-cream-themed living room cluttered with ceramic angels, artificial roses, and framed New Testament verses. (His wife, Gilchrist explains, is the religious one.) A small man with hooded gray-green eyes, a quick smile, and a nervous laugh, he strokes the dog beside him and talks about being wounded in Vietnam on a dirt road just south of Khe San.

"I think about that place every single day," he says. A bullet struck his rifle, sending fragments into his face, head, shoulder, elbow, and arm. "We had nineteen men in our company killed that day. Their bodies were just laying in the trail."

The thread of Gilchrist's ramblings is loose and somewhat frayed, and before long he moves on to the last time he was in Arizona, about twenty miles west of Douglas, patrolling the border road with Chris Simcox, then the editor of the Tombstone (Ariz.) Tumbleweed, and, with Gilchrist, the co-founder of the Minuteman Project. On the other side of the barbed-wire fence, they came across three coyotes, as the guides who smuggle migrants across the border are called. "One of the guys must've been only seventeen," Gilchrist says. "He needed braces; I remember that. They were friendly and everything, but they knew what we were there for. Our interpreter told them, 'We're not here to hurt you.'" The coyote answered, "Well, I got ninety-five people back there, and we're coming in tonight.'"

"He even told us," Gilchrist muses with a laugh. "It was funny. It was somehow silly. Here we are on the other side of the barbed wire, and we're giving them a gallon of water. We did everything but shake their hands. He said, 'We need agua.' So we gave them the gallon of water and they said thank you.

I said, "De nada." And the young one, he was about seventeen, he seemed to be so sincere."

Gilchrist shakes his head in amazement at it, this simple interaction, stripped briefly of any shielding rhetoric. He doesn't seem to know what to do with it, so he quickly returns to the comforts of rhetoric. Gilchrist's colleagues along the Arizona border will later repeat and repeat again the same arguments and many of the same phrases ("economic invasion," "a nation of laws"). The degree of rationality, nostalgia, and overt or implicit racism will fluctuate from Minuteman to Minuteman, but the basics will remain the same. By taking American jobs and bringing down wages, immigrants are destroying the American middle class. By taking advantage of government services, they are draining our wealth. They will bring us all down. They are criminals and terrorists. Most of this is demonstrably untrue, but it offers a tidy enough account to explain most of the dislocations brought about by the current state of global capitalism.


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Ben Ehrenreich lives in Los Angeles. His first novel, The Suitors, will be published next spring by Counterpoint Press.

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It scares me that I understand these people.
Posted by: SteveO on Dec 16, 2005 3:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I actually feel sorry for the Minutemen. I understand their fear and feelings if impotence, but I think that if they got their wish (all illegals gone now) our economy would collapse.

The so called "war on inflation" has been a war on the American lifestyle. The American dream of the post WWII era was based on buying a home then getting pay raises that allowed you to improve your lifestyle over the next 5 to 10 years. The war on inflation has forced the value added jobs off shore and created a subculture where illegals do jobs that our teenagers used to do of rates our teens won't even look at.

I wish I knew how to fix the problem. But, like the war on drugs, I don't think declaring war on illegals will solve anything.

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» RE: It scares me that I understand these people. Posted by: theywillknowusbyourabsurdity
» Here's how to solve it. Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: easier said then done... Posted by: Unbowed
Hey -- even Latinos understand
Posted by: arseniamarie on Dec 16, 2005 5:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The WORLD is becoming xenophobic... Chinese, Japanese, Javanese hate Balinese - hell, look at the Irish complaining about the Brits???

People want what they had, not what they're getting.

I want to be surrounded with people who share my economic and social belief system.

That's not possible anymore. Now we have consequences.

If the lady next door has plate in her lower lip and lives in a mud hut with no running water or sewage treatment... I won't like it.

If there are 3 Mexican families living in a trailer down valley in Aspen... Aspenites don't like it.... but their kids don't even work at McDonalds for $15 an hour.....

that's the reality in Aspen.

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» RE: Hey -- even Latinos understand Posted by: bonapartist
» Shut Down McDonalds Posted by: Happy
not completely invalid
Posted by: sykotropix on Dec 16, 2005 5:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Though I truly believe that immigrants should have the right to come to our country and become a part of our society and enjoy the many benefits that come with being an American citizen, I think this article is rather overblown and insulting.

Sentences like "She got involved with the effort to pass Proposition 200... that not only denies most government services to noncitizens but requires state employees to report undocumented immigrants." seem so overblown. What exactly is so wrong with people who feel that because someone does not take the time and effort to go through the arduous process of becoming a *legal* citizen of our country they should not have the same access to government services as would a legal citizen? What is so wrong with wanting employers to report people who entered our country illegally?

Though I agree after 9/11, many fears were exaggerated and overblown, I don't think you can say trying to seal the border a little more effectively is wrong or a crime. Is it not true that there are millions of people entering our country that we can not keep track of? Is it not true that though the vast majority of people entering our country illegally do so to enrich their own lives and further themselves and their families that there is a small possibility that a person or people looking to damage our country could enter undocumented as well?

Bottom line is that entering the country illegally and undocumented is a *crime*. I would never expect to slip into another country without following the rules and regulations required by that country and expect to be welcomed with open arms. I think it's ridiculous that we should accept that all people are welcome here without following any of the laws that have been set, and that every other law-abiding legal citizen must follow.

This article is rather insulting. Though the writer does a very good job of making these men sound like paranoid psychos wanting to be cowboys on the border - I think they also have very valid concerns.

I am 100% liberal - and also fully in support of diversity and people of any other country having the ability to become a citizen of our great country. I agree that they do benefit our society in many ways - without immigrants and diversity America would not be what it is today. That being said, I certainly do *not* think they should have the right to do so without following the regulations set in place

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» RE: not completely invalid Posted by: pancakes
» RE: not completely invalid Posted by: corylus
» RE: not completely invalid Posted by: ftorres
» montana freeman Posted by: montana freeman
Just Great! More publicity for these idiots...
Posted by: vomitgalore on Dec 16, 2005 5:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The single biggest thing these guys need to make their anti-immigrant, racists movement grow...is publicity. Positive, negative, it does not matter...publicity is publicity regardless. Thanks for being complicit Alternet in their campaign to spread the word..

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I disagree
Posted by: the republic on Dec 16, 2005 5:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I welcome each legal immigrant to this country.

Immigration is a public policy issue. Congress has the ability to increase or decrease the numbers of immigrants allowed, based on the usual host of reasons - politics, economics, etc. I'll grant you it is an untidy process, but democracy always is. Moreover, on such a fundamental issue, I want officials that are directly elected by the citizens to make these decisions.

Turning a blind eye to illegal immigration is just a back door way for Congress to appease business interests that benefits from a docile workforce and cheap labor, and thwarting the public interests, who are paying the taxes for the medical, social and educational services the illegals use.

The author dismisses the costs too easily. I am living in a rural area that has some of the highest property taxes in the state. Our population was realtively stable for decades. With a sudden and massive influx of immigrants, many of them illegal, taxes have skyrocketed to pay for the services we provide.

I think the argument the illegals are doing jobs Americans won't do falls flat as well. It would be more correct to say Americans won't do those jobs for the rates employers want to pay.

Whatever happened to the free market so in vogue? When oil became scarce after Katrina, the 'market' moved prices up. Well, if labor is scarce in Aspen, why can't wages also go up? If Aspeners can afford to be that picky about jobs, they can afford for their Big Mac to cost a dollar or so more.

Right now, liberals are rightly calling the Administration to account for the illegal outing of a CIA agent. To be consistent, shouldn't we expect all citizens to abide by the law? That would rule illegal immigration out, right?

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» RE: I disagree Posted by: theywillknowusbyourabsurdity
» RE: I disagree Posted by: the republic
» RE: I disagree Posted by: Gma1
» RE: I disagree Posted by: theywillknowusbyourabsurdity
» RE: I disagree Posted by: Gma1
» RE: I disagree Posted by: crusty
myths
Posted by: skydog on Dec 16, 2005 6:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Granted the meme that illegals take only the jobs that our teenagers wouldn't take may have some truth to it, but seems to me largely myth.

Consider New Orleans. Bush suspends the Davis-Bacon act, and lo and behold, Halliburton shows up with immigrant workers in droves. I'm sorry, but these people are taking jobs away from New Orelans citizens who desparately need them. It's a no-win situation for the workers either, because they're not paid what they're worth.

In a very upscale community in New Jersey, I've seen immigrant workers line up on the street corner waiting for contractors to pull up in their pickup trucks and indicate how many men they could use that day. They jump in the truck bed and off they go to build some multi-million dollar house. I knew union construction workers who were looking for work and couldn't get any. This isn't xenophobic, it's fact.

If the government would enforce laws already on the books, then we could be certain that those immigrant workers were entitled to that job as much as anyone else. Their standard of living would be improved, and wage and benefit levels better protected for all workers.

But because the Democrats are walking on eggshells so as not to offend anyone (as if the displaced workers aren't more than merely offended) and the Republicans want to depress wages and benefits, neither political party will act. Instead, both parties in effect co-conspire to perpetuate this myth that illegals take only jobs no American would want. All this nonsense nets out to a mighty handy toehold for racist vigilantes, because that myth simply doesn't square with blue collar reality.

A person who does physical labor for a living is concerned that if their job isn't being exported, they'll import the worker instead. When the only politicians speaking candidly about stopping the flood are the xenophobes and closet racists, next time that person might just vote for them. To that worker, the more progressive politicans are just arguing over the details of an amnesty program, encouraging more to come.

This is madness. The Democrats need to get off their donkey and reassert themselves as the party of the AMERICAN worker, regardless of race, color, creed, sexual orientation, or national origin. Progressives need to think carefully about the consequences of shutting down candid discussion of the issue as racist.

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» RE: myths Posted by: Gma1
» RE: myths Posted by: mysticpal
Could somebody please explain
Posted by: bonapartist on Dec 16, 2005 7:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OK, you have a group of vigilantes armed with military grade weapons and enforcing the law as they interpret it. This is a clear infraction of civil government's prerogatives and I was wondering what US officials, like law enforcement etc., are doing to stop them.

I know that any European government would be pulling every gun in legitimate government arsenal to disperse a group that is in essence an armed militia.

It is pretty simple really. If you are armed with military grade weapons in Europe you are belonging either to an army, police or a criminal organization.

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Poor stupid s.o.b.'s know they're getting screwed
Posted by: sausage on Dec 16, 2005 7:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These morons, and that's one of the nicer things you can say about them, know some one is screwing them, and screwing them badly, but their racism prevents them from seeing that the "screwers" are their heroes(Reagan Republicans, ultra-wealthy White men.)

There's no hope for these fools, so let's have a laugh at their expense. Minutemen Using Illegal Aliens To Help Patrol US-Mexico Border?
Citing an insufficient amount of manpower to faithfully monitor the vast amount of territory along the United States’ border with Mexico for the unsanctioned crossings of undocumented migrants, the anti-illegal immigration vigilante group known as ‘The Minutemen’ has begun enlisting the paid help of Latino workers, many of who are likely undocumented migrants themselves.

“Unfortunately the requirements of maintaining a vigilant watch over our country’s porous border with Mexico have exceeded what our volunteers can handle, so we’ve been forced to resort to supplementing our ranks with temporary workers recruited from local spots where individuals willing to work for what we can afford to pay congregate,” commented Arizona Minuteman spokesman Russ Mangrove, “That isn’t to say they are illegal aliens, however. We don’t know for certain because we don’t check. The important thing is that we stop more illegals from entering the country and taking our jobs.”
(snip)
Remarked UCLA Economics professor James Warnich, “Sure, it would make more sense for these vigilantes, if they were so concerned with preserving these fruit picking and Wal-Mart floor mopping jobs for Americans to perhaps organize and force those employers to maybe provide an attractive enough wage so that a non-migrant might actually want it in the first place instead of going after the immigrants themselves whose labor and tax contributions are indispensable to this country as it is, but I suppose that would be a lot less fun than going around playing army hero.”

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Hiring illegals is not "really illegal."
Posted by: gar on Dec 16, 2005 8:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While this article is well written and does what the author set out to do - make a bunch of people with sincere political beliefs look like a bunch of aging, pathetic, potbellied psychos - it also does what many other articles on this subject do. It blurs and confuses the line between legal immigrants and illegal aliens.

I have nothing against people immigrating to this country legally. What I am against is maintaining a never ending supply of cheap labor for the industries, farms and corporations that exploit illegal aliens and use them as a tool to keep wages of all other American workers down.

The other night on Lou Dobbs, I heard someone from the farming community say something like, "I've got to have illegals. No one else will pick apples for minimum wage." Well, Duh! This is supposed to be a captilist society. If you can't get labor for the price you want to pay, you raise the price until someone takes the job. Then, of course, comes a painful decission; do you pass that cost on to the consumer or take it out of the profits? There is the rub.

What you don't do - if you are a law abiding citizen - is hire an illegal alien. That is illegal. And there is another rub. While I don't condemn the Minute Men nor their actions, they are doomed to failure as are all other efforts to stop people from coming into this country illegally.

Why? Because as long as they know they can get work, they'll find someway to get here, and as long as people who hire them know that hiring illegals is illegal, but it's not "really illegally" the illegals will always be able to get work. Comprende'?

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Well, yes, but this is bad for the POOR.
Posted by: medstudgeek on Dec 16, 2005 9:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I realize most of us lefties don't want to sign on with a bunch of racist immigrant-baiters, we ought to consider the effects of supply and demand on the wages of unskilled workers.

Illegal immigrants provide a 'reserve army of the unemployed' that helps keep wages down and unionization difficult. I don't like Tancredo or his racist buddies either but decreasing immigration would create a scarcity of labor that would raise wages for unskilled laborers and make unionization easier.

We're liberals. We're supposed to care for the poor and the powerless. Refusing to consider cutting down on immigration because some bad people want to do it doesn't make any more sense than eating meat because Hitler was a vegetarian.

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Impossible Situation, Improbable Solutions
Posted by: Basenjis on Dec 16, 2005 10:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I haven't a clue as to how to solve the problems under discussion. However, may I suggest a concentrated effort at nipping such problems in the bud by actively promoting universal birth control--or is that too sensible?

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Where are the minutemen when you really need them?
Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 16, 2005 10:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You won't find them protesting in front of companies hiring illegals in the race to the bottom-line. Walmart doing it is probably only a small sample of just about every big and even some small businesses doing it.

P.S.: Sometime ago, I read an article here on Alternet about farmers in KY hiring illegals because of their smartness vs idiots who care to only talk about counting sports scores than counting sheep and horses. I'll dig it up and post it here. And of course, you don't see minutemen protesting there where it counts. Then again, maybe they should spend some time getting people seriously smart in math and comprehension instead of mired in frivolous sports scores like water-cooler zombies if they really want to help curb "illegal immigration".

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Years ago the leaders of Mexico said they would get their land back and not fire a shot .
Posted by: threedfm on Dec 16, 2005 10:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well , their were right .
Why don't we do away with the border altogether and become one nation , American can pay for and provide jobs , health care , and education for the new citizens of the USA . This not only helps the employers , but President Fox . He has fewer people to provide for and the ones that work , will be sending money home and that helps Mexico's economy . They can use everything that has made our country great and we have built , fought and died for . Lets just give it all to them and then we won't have to worry about anyone wanting to come , because we'll all have the same economy as Mexico . Then maybe we can cross Canada's border and be their illegal's

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» montana freeman Posted by: montana freeman
The Price of Untreated PTSD
Posted by: trauma specialist on Dec 16, 2005 12:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a trauma treatment specialist and I have been cleaning up untreated trauma, and it's sad impact on people's lives, for over 20 years. Mr. Gilchrist is clearly presenting with untreated PTSD from Viet Nam. My heart aches for him that he is still sufferring from his time in that War. Mr. Simcox also clearly had a terribly anxiety reaction to 9/11, a reaction that might indicate earlier, untreated trauma. To contain their fear and anxiety they are focused on illegal immigrants to try to regulate down their nervous systems. I am concerned not only for them, but also for the the men and women returning from the current Iraq War and the reality that our federal government keeps cutting money for the treatment of PTSD for veterans. In forty years if our new war vets do not get treatment, they will be looking for their own ways to contain their unresolved anxiety. And the entire society pays, and pays and pays again.

Trauma Specialist

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Sick of the dishonest articles on Alternet
Posted by: agarillo on Dec 16, 2005 1:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Illegal immigration has completely destroyed the tax base in states like California. Period, end of story. I'm sick of supporting counties like San Bernardion where 30% of the residents are on government aide of some kind. The poor of Mexico have completely overwhelmed our social services.

I broke my leg a year ago, and had to wait about 30 hours *WITH A BROKEN LEG* for treatment because the hospital was full of illegals. It was painful. I can't wait until one of you bleeding heart idiots who might write an article like this calls an ambulance -- and it doesn't come because some illegal with a cold is clogging the emergency room... I think then you'll understand the real cost of illegal immigration.

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» The latest joke Posted by: ftorres
» RE: The latest joke Posted by: metahope
» RE: The latest joke Posted by: ftorres
» RE: The latest joke Posted by: metahope
US - Mexico breaking relations - perhaps a good thing after all!
Posted by: ftorres on Dec 16, 2005 2:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps it would be the best thing for Mexico if relations are broken with the USA. After all, this love-hate thing between the two border countries has been a one way street. Mexico furnishes the cheap labor and Americans get fat, rich and lazy. Mexico should now follow (and perhaps it will after the next Mexican presidential elections in which the leftist mayor in Mexico City is becoming more and more popular) Hugo Chavez's Venezuela, Brasil, Peru, Boliva, Chile Argentina and more Latin American nations that are sure to follow. What these nations have in common now is they don't listen to the the US of and are not being intimidated anymore. They have witnessed what a rag-tag army of Iraqi insurgents is doing in lieu of the sophisticated weaponary America has developed. In fact, many nations (even those fighting young Americans) feel sorry for America's young men and women whom are being used as cannon fodder for corporate greed and a ignorant, arrogant stupid right wing christian fundamentalist conservative society! Breaking relations with the US is perhaps the only way Mexico will eventually straightened out her labor and social problems, just like Venezuela is now doing. Mexico, like Venezuela, has one big trump card and that is to stop exporting it's oil to America. and sell it to China and to other Latin American countries which have been destablized by the US meddling repressive intervations. That would be a revolution that would change the entire Southern Hemisphere forever!

Latin America should become more like like America's neighbor to the North. Canada has currently abolished the Patriot Act from Canada and has threatened to ship it's natural gas to China if the US does not adhere to the NAFTA agreement.

These idiots in the Senate and in the House better find out that they are nearing completion of isolating the nation from the rest of the world.

It's a sad thing to say that recently China came out ahead of the United States in world's favorable opinions, especially in Latin America. Something must be wrong!

By the way, Congress better find out that Latin America follows what Mexico does on the international scene.

Alas! It seem that our nation has NO shortage of fat lazy beer guzzling minute men, career lazy welfare recipients, Politicians on the take, dysfunctional corporations and a mass media that no longer credible.

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» montana freeman Posted by: montana freeman
Is it about vigilantes or about how a nation without a border ain't a nation?
Posted by: Sojourner on Dec 16, 2005 9:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we cannot control our borders, we should stop kidding ourselves that we are a nation. Yes, the problem is much older and bigger than building a fence. But what does, duh, we shouldda not-a done what we did when we invaded Mexico, mean today, here and now? Maybe our ancestors should never have come down out of the trees, either.

Vigilanteism will continue to grow if our lawmakers do not resolve the issues of social chaos. We will not put up with gangs taking over our cities. We will arm ourselves and hunt them down, if we need to.

Where I live, in southern California, such peace as we have depends on the patience and capacity of people to suffer. It cannot last forever.

By far, the huge majority of illegals in our city are good hardworking people. But we cannot accommodate everybody who wants to immigrate illegally. Sorry. When the price gets too high, there will be a fight. We can see the outlines of it already.

The rhetoric in the original article above reminds me of the story that ends with "There has to be a pony in there somewhere." Phew. Over the top.

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» montana freeman Posted by: montana freeman
who's paranoid?
Posted by: whatthe on Dec 17, 2005 7:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What does this character own that the illegals destroy crossing the border? What's this character have to say about those breaking the law? If the law's such an arbitrary thing he wouldn't mind someone putting a gun to his head...

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The Minutemen are going after companies that hire illegals
Posted by: metahope on Dec 18, 2005 1:39 AM   
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This site is an offshoot of the Minutemen. I heard it was developed by one of their members. www.wehirealiens.com

I am on the side of the Minutemen. If our government won't do what it best for our country and our economy people will have to do it themselves.

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» montana freeman Posted by: montana freeman
Illegal labor creating a slave class
Posted by: harpy on Dec 18, 2005 10:01 AM   
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For all the hand-wringing over the fact that this country was founded on welcoming immigrants, the problem is that when even the "President" claims we should give amnesty and won't secure our borders(but doesn't have a problem with spying on American citizens), we have literally hordes of illegals coming in. When they're given jobs at lower than a living wage, this takes jobs from Americans who would do the job. Then you have a government that with every tax cut for the super wealthy, cuts programs for the poor, rendering them to a sub class. Then it finally gets to the point that with no health care, no food assistance, less money for child support enforcement or assistance, the people that were making a semi-living wage are getting to the point that they have to work for slave wages, which is not enough to eat on, let alone pay rent and utilities, they then turn to crime because there is no other way to survive. Then the big corporations can just do what they want because everybody is in effect a slave with no options left. We have passed the saturation point and are breaking the back of America. The minutemen may be racist, but they're trying to do the job that George is too beholden to the big corporations to do.

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No mention of....
Posted by: Asses of Evil on Dec 18, 2005 2:50 PM   
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the fact that while Gilchrist was set off by 9/11, none of those guys entered the country illegally. And again, this is all bought about by paranoia when there are so many bigger concerns. Good God help us all.

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Rant & Rave......
Posted by: FedUp on Dec 18, 2005 3:42 PM   
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and pull your hair; there's nothing you can do about it - that's where your frustration is coming from.
The world is on the march, and your fat-cats in government are only going to give you lip-service.
They're isolated from all this by the perks and privileges they've bestowed on themselves while you were circling the wagons.
Since the terrorists that have killed and maimed, are slipping thru their fingers, at a huge cost of human lives, they're perfectly comfortable with you picking another target for your hate and frustration. Go get 'em Rambo! You da man!
If you want change, go after your municipal minions - the last link in the flunky chain of command, and make them accountable, and not with some lame "mea culpas" - vote them out of office. Stop voting the party line! Stop falling for slogans!
And for the future of the nation, Stop putting millionaires in public office!

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montana freeman
Posted by: montana freeman on Dec 19, 2005 4:36 PM   
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thanks for all this stuff , i am plain without to much schooin but i can still understand the bullshit thats going on in this place and i give thanks for all of you that try to make thoes of us that misted the word a little more .thank you people.

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» RE: montana freeman Posted by: ftorres
Keep Driving Past
Posted by: kalaloch on Dec 27, 2005 8:59 PM   
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While I will readily acknowledge that the author is far better educated than myself; and no doubt keeps better social company; having lived in Sierra Vista, Tucson, and Phoenix, I have some disagreements with various of his statements (though I sincerely doubt they'll be read).
First off, I am one of those rare things people everywhere cringe about; a marginally educated ex-convict (for murder, no less) with a psychological disorder, and about four decades of study into various weapon systems, tactics and doctrine. That makes me scarrier than the run of the mill illegal alien to law enforcement types, and I am a citizen.
Having said that, I live way the heck near the tip of the Olympic Peninsula of Washington State. No lettuce is grown here. Not many logging jobs after the Spotted Owl "episode"; but there is Salal. It's an innocent little plant, and you'll find it in most of your flower arrangements. Illegal immigrants up here harvest it out of the forest; both with legal permits and otherwise; by the pick-up truck full. Now, most of these "undocumented workers" have minor children which, by law, my local school district must take in and educate. I still rent my home, so consequently part of my rent goes to property taxes; that pay for the schools, the hospital, and the funding through the Department of Social and Health Services. Now, I could handle all that; I've had some nasty turns in my life before and needed help to get back up.
What I could not abide was an individual who was in this country illegally from Guatemala invading my home, and upon his arrest my local law enforcement informing me that I shouldn't be surprised to see this individual in the neighborhood within the next few days.
From my personal perspective, as an ex-felon, I am expected to abide by additional restrictions to the law. I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem in that others aren't required to follow the law, and are given a free pass. My child comes home from kindergarten with a flag of Mexico, not Poland, or Japan, or Kosovo, not even one of the United States.
While I understand the author was doing his level best to portray the Minutemen as paranoid, heavily armed xenophobes, I would ask him to interview any of the number of American families who have lost a loved one to the actions of an illegal alien; an individual who should have been stopped at the border.

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