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Your Guess Is as Good as Mine

By Kurt Vonnegut, In These Times. Posted December 16, 2005.


If you are an educated, thinking person, you will not be welcome in Washington, D.C. The guessers are in charge -- the haters of information.

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Most of you, if not all of you, like me, feel inadequately educated. That is an ordinary feeling for a member of our species. One of the most brilliant human beings of all times, George Bernard Shaw, said on his 75th birthday or so that at last he knew enough to become a mediocre office boy. He died in 1950, by the way, when I was 28. He is the one who said, "Youth is wasted on the young." I turned 83 a couple weeks ago, and I must say I agree.

Shaw, if he were alive today, would envy us the solid information that we have or can get about the nature of the universe, about time and space and matter, about our own bodies and brains, about the resources and vulnerabilities of our planet, about how all sorts of human beings actually talk and feel and live.

This is the information revolution. We have taken it very badly so far. Information seems to be getting in the way all the time. Human beings have had to guess about almost everything for the past million years or so. Our most enthralling and sometimes terrifying guessers are the leading characters in our history books. I will name two of them: Aristotle and Hitler. One good guesser and one bad one.

The masses of humanity, having no solid information to tell them otherwise, have had little choice but to believe this guesser or that one. Russians who didn't think much of the guesses of Ivan the Terrible, for example, were likely to have their hats nailed to their heads.

We must acknowledge, though, that persuasive guessers--even Ivan the Terrible, now a hero in Russia--have given us courage to endure extraordinary ordeals that we had no way of understanding. Crop failures, wars, plagues, eruptions of volcanoes, babies being born dead--the guessers gave us the illusion that bad luck and good luck were understandable and could somehow be dealt with intelligently and effectively.

Without that illusion, we would all have surrendered long ago. But in fact, the guessers knew no more than the common people and sometimes less. The important thing was that they gave us the illusion that we're in control of our destinies.

Persuasive guessing has been at the core of leadership for so long--for all of human experience so far--that it is wholly unsurprising that most of the leaders of this planet, in spite of all the information that is suddenly ours, want the guessing to go on, because now it is their turn to guess and be listened to.

Some of the loudest, most proudly ignorant guessing in the world is going on in Washington today. Our leaders are sick of all the solid information that has been dumped on humanity by research and scholarship and investigative reporting.

They think that the whole country is sick of it, and they want standards, and it isn't the gold standard. They want to put us back on the snake-oil standard.

Loaded pistols are good for people unless they're in prisons or lunatic asylums.

That's correct.

Millions spent on public health are inflationary.

That's correct.

Billions spent on weapons will bring inflation down.

That's correct.

Industrial wastes, and especially those that are radioactive, hardly ever hurt anybody, so everybody should shut up about them.

That's correct.

Industries should be allowed to do whatever they want to do: Bribe, wreck the environment just a little, fix prices, screw dumb customers, put a stop to competition and raid the Treasury in case they go broke.

That's correct. That's free enterprise. And that's correct.

The poor have done something very wrong or they wouldn't be poor, so their children should pay the consequences.

That's correct.

The United States of America cannot be expected to look after its people.

That's correct.

The free market will do that.

That's correct.

The free market is an automatic system of justice.

That's correct.

And so on.

If you actually are an educated, thinking person, you will not be welcome in Washington, D.C. I know a couple of bright seventh graders who would not be welcomed in Washington, D.C.

Do you remember those doctors a few years back who got together and announced that it was a simple, clear medical fact that we could not survive even a moderate attack by hydrogen bombs? They were not welcome in Washington, D.C.

Even if we fired the first salvo of hydrogen weapons and the enemy never fired back, the poisons released would probably kill the whole planet by and by.

What is the response in Washington? They guess otherwise. What good is an education? The boisterous guessers are still in charge--the haters of information. And the guessers are almost all highly educated people. Think of that. They have had to throw away their educations, even Harvard or Yale educations, to become guessers. If they didn't do that, there is no way their uninhibited guessing could go on and on and on.

Please, don't you do that. But let me warn you, if you make use of the vast fund of knowledge now available to educated persons, you are going to be lonesome as hell. The guessers outnumber you--and now I have to guess--about ten to one.

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Kurt Vonnegut's works include "Slaughterhouse-Five," "Breakfast of Champions" and "Cat's Cradle," among many others. This essay was adapted from his most recent book, A Man Without a Country. He is also a senior editor for In These Times.

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thank you
Posted by: pixiequix on Dec 16, 2005 2:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A big "thank you" to whom it may concern, for the inclusion of this wonderful piece in the daily layout. And, of course, a geyser of gratitude to the author, Mr. Vonnegut. For these words and so many others.

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» RE: thank you Posted by: Basenjis
Pendelton
Posted by: Pendelton on Dec 16, 2005 2:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
W/apologies to POGO, We have met the government and it is us.

I am more sorry than saddened to read this. At this point in time all I can do is to write my elected govt officials that I will not vote for them if they do not support Campain Finance Reform. Also an open letter to local newspapers MAY get another literate reader to act.

Our government is for sale to the higest bidder. The higest bidder being corporations. Corporations exist to make a profit. Money is being "poured" into a "military" budget instead of a defense budget. While college students struggle for financing. I have not forgotten the blistering lack of social programs. We have homelessness here in the good olde U.S. of A. Elected officials that get more that basic medical/dental & retirement pensions that an increasing number of our citizens can't afford.

impeachbush.org could use more support

without your involvement don't complain when our Country evolves into a Fascist State.

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» RE: Pendelton Posted by: DFrost
» RE: Pendelton Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Pendelton Posted by: DFrost
"You Are Already Dead in Illium"
Posted by: Wildfeather on Dec 16, 2005 2:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bob Dylan sang, "Stone cold dead as I stepped out of the womb". Correct? Jesus said, "Let the dead bury the dead". True? When Eve believed a lie, ate the fruit, and died. In "Gladiator", Maximus told his men, "You are already dead in Illium". Now, at 83, you must know how right you were about the "great zipper of God". He is frightfully righteous, I would guess? When I returned from Viet Nam, I read your book and wept. - Wildfeather: http://jeseppiwritings.blogspot.com/

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Mark Twain
Posted by: Sparks56 on Dec 16, 2005 3:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kurt Vonnegut is this generation's Mark Twain. I saw Kurt Vonnegut recently on PBS's "Frontline". He looks like Twain and, I imagined, spoke like him too.
I don't think Vonnegut's America is very much different than Twain's America. In "Huckleberry Finn" Twain introduces the Duke and the Dauphin, a couple of hustlers, con men, snake oil salesmen. The Duke and the Dauphin have prospered in America. They are now the President and Vice President of this great nation.
In "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" Twain illustrates in several scenes and plot turns that many people would much rather believe the most fanciful, patently impossible yarns than the plain obvious truth in front of their face. No change there either.
In this democracy, voting is the minimum requirement. But voting alone never changed anything. In the history of America, progressive change, i.e. women's right, racial civil rights, workers rights, the environmental movement, etc. etc. came about through only through much work and struggle, some of it bloody. People committed their lives to their cause.
Congressional elections are looming. If your representative is not of your liking, let her know, loudly, daily. Go to work for the challenger, and let he or she know, loudly, daily, how you feel. Go door to door in your neighborhood and try to drum up support. If nothing else, you'll know your neighbors better.
Progressive change never " just happens".
Remember the last page of "God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater" by Kurt Vonnegut. "The earth is warm, wet, and crowded. ...There's only one rule; please be kind."
Chris Murphy for Congress, Conn. 5th District

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» RE: Mark Twain Posted by: jaydenari
He is so right on! I just sent a letter to my congressman.......
Posted by: Pepper on Dec 16, 2005 4:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
regarding the current proposed regulation by the EPA to allow chemical companies to poison little children who have no one to speak for them. This new regulation restricts some subjects, but then has exceptions that are outrageous. You can see what they were doing in the exceptions themselves. Orphans, severly handicapped, Abused and neglected children and even if they have parents , this regulation allows the "state" to overrule the parents, I say "WHAT???".

Since when did the state own the bodies of little children to do with as they will???

These are highly educated people and yet they are "soulless" or they couldn't do this. So, I believe that is the final determining factor in this piece that he missed. The guessing is to support their soulless existance and conscienceless condition, in other words their "psychopathy".

Sexual abuse of the Iraqi children in front of their mothers is a good example: who in thier right mind would even imagine such an act??? No one I know, I don't think! Well, maybe one guy I know who is capable of that, but he is not in power.

He is not only right, but actually being kind in a perverse sort of way.

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» Sociopath Posted by: aztec
God Bless You, Mr. Vonnegut
Posted by: Tom Degan on Dec 16, 2005 5:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Need I say more?
Tom Degan

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Yawn.
Posted by: DFrost on Dec 16, 2005 5:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pity us poor souls here in Washington. Trying to do the government's business, and fatally handicapped by the absence of snarky old pseudo-intellectuals like Vonnegut to guide us along the true path.

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» RE: Yawn. Posted by: ankhet
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: Pepper
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: DFrost
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: a_civilian
» OK! Posted by: DFrost
» RE: OK! Posted by: SDres11
» RE: OK! Posted by: DFrost
» RE: OK! Posted by: NDnative
» Yawn right back at ya! Posted by: Pepper
» RE: Yawn right back at ya! Posted by: DFrost
» RE: Yawn right back at ya! Posted by: Pepper
» RE: Yawn right back at ya! Posted by: DFrost
» RE: Yawn right back at ya! Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Yawn right back at ya! Posted by: A. James
» RE: Yawn right back at ya! Posted by: ditkus
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: sevengen
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: DFrost
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: Pepper
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: DFrost
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: DFrost
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: DFrost
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: SDres11
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: NDnative
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: sevengen
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: JayLab
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: jeff2045
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: Pepper
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: Roverton
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: ankhet
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: Jayzer
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: kk33deg
» Handicapped by Absence? Posted by: Artkansas
Extremely sad, but extremely true.
Posted by: Lincoln fan on Dec 16, 2005 6:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Vonnegut is "right on" guessing is much easier than thinking. Fits right in with his famous "Catch 22"

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» Iceland collected Posted by: Lincoln fan
The Scariest Thing
Posted by: NoPCZone on Dec 16, 2005 7:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a baby boomer that works in a sea of Gen-Xers. We also have a never ending stream of college students rotating through. The fly on the wall says:

They can tell you who is screwing who in Hollywood but cannot tell you who is their State or Federal Representatives in the Legislature or Congress.
They have little or no knowledge of our country, it's founding, the Federalist Papers or other important writings that have formed our government.
They have little knowledge or interest in current issues on the national or international stage unless it will acutely affect them.
They have a very shallow and sloganeered understanding of the divisive issues in our country-- the line of demarcation between left and right, etc.

Their ill informed and ill-considered vote counts just as much as everyone else.
Amazing, simply amazing.

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» RE: The Scariest Thing Posted by: Pepper
» RE: The Scariest Thing Posted by: DaigleD
» RE: The Scariest Thing Posted by: mr. joshua
» Dark Ages Posted by: aztec
» Half of us are dumber than that Posted by: Bic Pentameter
» RE: The Scariest Thing Posted by: pomes
» RE: The Scariest Thing Posted by: Samantha Vimes
» RE: The Scariest Thing Posted by: yesman
» RE: The Scariest Thing Posted by: pickeju
Poor Mr. Vonnegut
Posted by: dikaiosyne on Dec 16, 2005 7:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Poor, poor Mr. Vonnegut. To be so old and to find oneself to be so inconsequential. His musings, profound only to himself and a few less intelligently gifted individuals, is nothing more than the last cry of a dying man who wished he could have had a more pronounced impact on the culture than writing a couple of books and doing the lecture circuit to lure empty heads in the the delights of left wing political and enviromental activism. Fortunately with the education system being in such a sad state as it is there will be fewer and fewer students at the high school and college level who will ever know who Curt Vonnegut is and/or was. Curt's friends in the teacher's unions didn't bother to teach them the joys of reading. He'll be remembered as no more than a trivia question. From my point of view that can only be considered fortunate.

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» RE: Poor Mr. Vonnegut Posted by: Dave04
» RE: Poor Mr. Vonnegut Posted by: jeff2045
» RE: Poor Mr. Vonnegut Posted by: mewhins24
» RE: Poor Mr. Vonnegut Posted by: Pepper
» RE: Poor Mr. Vonnegut Posted by: Father Paul
» RE: Consequential? Posted by: joyartist
» RE: Poor Mr. Vonnegut Posted by: NamVeT
» RE: Poor Mr. Vonnegut Posted by: ankhet
» RE: Poor Mr. Vonnegut Posted by: ankhet
» RE: Poor Mr. Vonnegut Posted by: ankhet
» RE: Poor Mr. Vonnegut Posted by: kooz
» RE: Poor Mr. Vonnegut Posted by: ankhet
» RE: Poor Mr. Vonnegut Posted by: kooz
» RE: Poor Mr. Vonnegut Posted by: doneman2000
No impeachment yet
Posted by: reason on Dec 16, 2005 8:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pendelton, the way I understand it, you can't impeach a president unless congress o.k.s it. That won't happen until 2006 after theNovember election. The republicans will not let impeachment proceed at this time and they have the majority.

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Now, now.
Posted by: DFrost on Dec 16, 2005 8:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you libs keep wanting more and more services and bigger and bigger gov't, what's wrong with my taking you at your word? Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go crush the last few vestiges of your civil rights.

Kisses,
DFrost

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» How droll Posted by: sausage
» Sure there is! Posted by: DFrost
» RE: Sure there is! Posted by: Roverton
» Postal management, I'd say Posted by: sausage
» Keep guessing! Posted by: DFrost
» get your facts straight Posted by: DFrost
» RE: Keep guessing! Posted by: clarence
» RE: Sure there is! Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Now, now. Posted by: jeff2045
» RE: Now, now. Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Now, now. Posted by: Roverton
» RE: Now, now. Posted by: Roverton
» Really? Posted by: DFrost
» Don't be so modest! Posted by: DFrost
» RE: Don't be so modest! Posted by: kooz
» RE: Now, now. Posted by: yesman
» RE: Now, now. Posted by: spacey300
» RE: Now, now. Posted by: SDres11
» RE: Now, now. Posted by: ALANHESTER
rover
Posted by: Roverton on Dec 16, 2005 9:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
QUESTIONS:

1. If one group of lost souls are the "Libs". Is the other lost group known as the "Cons"?

2. If one group was brain washed, might the other group be susceptible to the same conditioning?

3. Would a member of a group know they were brainwashed, or would another have to point it out?

4. How do we know for certain that we're NOT all brain washed at once?

5. Are our lives as they stand, proof that we're not brain washed?

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» RE: Excellent Posted by: aztec
A good education = a good crap detector.
Posted by: monkeywrench on Dec 16, 2005 9:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excellent analysis.

Those guessers in Washington threw away their educations because they did not value their educations beyond what could be gained in power and riches. And they don't value education for the rest of us either, because that might threaten their continued power and riches; so they claim to support education while slashing school budgets and pushing idiocies like the teaching of creationism in the guise of (un)"intelligent design." They know that it is easier to influence the noise in all of OUR heads than to try and put something over on a rational, inquisitive mind – like the mind of someone who has benefitted from a good education. (The shell game is harder to play when the victim is really paying attention.)

Also, many in Washington have abandoned rationality for the egocentric seduction of the noise in their own heads, what I think of as "The Philosopher-King Delusion." They in a sense have taken themselves back to the pre-Copernican days of the Earth-centered universe – except that now the universe revolves around THEM.

The Powers That Be want us all dumb, fat and happy (or at least anesthetized) –– and it seems that they are getting their wish.

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Not guessers more than liars
Posted by: kooz on Dec 16, 2005 10:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Vonnegut rules!
But the leaders in Washington are cynical liars. My educated guess tells me that more Republicans are liars than Democrats. Further, that more wealthy elitist types are liars than the less well-to-do and of modest means types. That rich people get away with lying more than poor people do but only because their money lends itself to identity with those in position to judge. As an example, follow the that stupid rich kid, (A future George W. Bush) with the gambling addiciton who robbed banks. He has the mopney to pay for his lies. If he were poor, no matter what race, he'd be getting f*****d in the butthole in some prison weight room by savages put there by, I guess, rich people who tip the scales of justice agianst the poor.

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» RE: Not guessers more than liars Posted by: real liberal
Aren't trolls fun?
Posted by: deha on Dec 16, 2005 12:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seriously, this is most animated discussion I've seen here in a while. I've really enjoyed the intellectual hauteur, the conflation of good proofreading skills with solid critical thinking, and the belittling of one of America's most iconic authors.

Fun stuff, I say.

And we should really all get back to work, not just dfrost who probably isn't completely rotten even though he's employed by a rotten system for which we are ALL responsible. As for me, I've got to go impose my liberal bias on some college students and grade their final papers. Maybe I'll try something new this time and base their grades on their punctuation instead of their ideas. It would surely be easier than evaluating the actual argument.

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» RE: Aren't trolls fun? Posted by: yesman
Vonnegut in perpetuity
Posted by: kevo on Dec 16, 2005 1:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When the silence of this generation is achieved, and the passing of time traverses across a future enlightment among human-kind, Mr. Vonnegut will be remembered as that brave soul from the latter part of the 20th century who illustrated the follies and insanities of the human ego for what they are - perpetrations of the powerful guessers. As such, the memory of Mr. Vonnegut will have a rich presence in generations to come. I guess he will be known not only as Kurt Vonnegut Jr., but also, more importantly, he will be honored as our generation's WISE FOGEY MAN. Long live the insight and free thinking skills of our WISE FOGEY MAN, Kurt Vonnegut Jr. -Kevo

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Ignorance is bliss...
Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Dec 16, 2005 3:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Vonnegut is right: We are not a nation of philosophers, intellectuals, and not too many Americans go around quoting Kant or Hegel. What we are is a collection of wide opinions/beliefs that transcend the realm of knowledge and we have misused the purpose of an education.
Our policies have wrecked havoc upon the planet by endorsing capitalism. It's a shame we have educated people running (or ruining) our government and they seem to hold fast to lassiez-faire style of leading the USA off the precipice.
Journalists can't get information from any politician in D.C.; they get the runaround. Our leaders are tight-lipped and have cold feet. They're not forthcoming with their intentions. They act ignorant of the facts swirling about them. Ignorance is bliss. But we're not dumb. We will one day pay for our ignorance.

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Now It Can Be Guessed
Posted by: cyberfactotum on Dec 16, 2005 4:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The above article is obviously guesswork (although in my opinion fairly accurate) on the part of Mr. Vonnegut. I would extend what he has written even farther: in our government these days almost everything is done by guessers, and the guessers themselves are no longer informed, controlled, or even elected by educated persons but entirely by other guessers.

Though you may not have heard of me, Gregore Salmon--since my blogs have been up till now only available as filler in pornographic internet sites--my studies conclude that every bit of law in Washington is controlled by only about forty people, themselves all ignorant guessers. My research indicates that these people are currently about to implement their guessing/governing rights even more fully by placing ‘no thinking’ signs on every street corner in Washington and giving everyone free TVs (recycled from old Howard Johnson Inn rooms) with no OFF power switches, so they can exist without actually thinking at all ever again.

Even though no one but my parakeet, Moyers, and my artist friend Rabo agrees with my thoughts here, reading Mr. Vonnegut’s article and most of the (non-ignorant-guessing) comments here, has heartened and inspired me to post this, my own comment.

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» RE: Now It Can Be Guessed Posted by: dragonfire6012
» RE: Now It Can Be Guessed Posted by: cyberfactotum
Well, our country has been hijacked by mal-business folks and abusers of religion such as Robertson
Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 16, 2005 5:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fact is whether we're talking D or R these days, it's nothing but a puppet regime controlled by a combination of mal-business lunatics and abusers of religion. Think Ken Lay and Pat Robertson. As long as these kind of leaders can have puppets to do pure guesswork and no thought, these rightwing NAZIs wield the power. We might as well get out there and reform both parties or the real war against terrorism and dictatorship in America will only be harder than hell to win.

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not really "guessers"
Posted by: yesman on Dec 16, 2005 9:33 PM   
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An interesting piece, and a pleasure to read. However, those currently in charge of this country aren't really guessers. They're liars. They knowingly promote falsehoods, fabrications and half-truths for their own benefit. They hold a fixed ideology, and they prefer and assert this ideology against the truth at every turn. In fact, they disdain the truth. The whole notion that there IS a truth offends them. They want the "truth" to be whatever set of beliefs promotes their interests--financially, politically and otherwise. The "truth"--their ideological "truth"--is what shields them from being unmasked as the conniving, treacherous, cowardly, brutal, criminal thugs that they are.

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Hooray!
Posted by: clarence on Dec 16, 2005 11:33 PM   
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D'ja notice ole D's gone? D'ja suppose he ain't on our dime no more? Partay! We can split infinitives to our heart's content! We can mix whatever metaphors we howsomever choose! Etc!
Seriously, when guys like that show up, we should just answer them with deafening silence. If they have some kind of real question or valid criticism we should answer it, but rising to the bait of their stupidicisms just wastes our time and encourages them.
"If a right-wing lackey posted a comment on alternet and nobody responded, would anybody care?"

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» RE: Hooray! Posted by: liberalibrarian
I'm Guessing Our Goose Is Cooked.
Posted by: guijackb on Dec 17, 2005 6:01 AM   
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Unless somebody finds a way to get the apathetic American public off it's collective dead ass and into a voting booth, in BOTH 2006 AND 2008, I'm guessing it's going to be way too late to stop the lunatics from destroying the whole lunatic planet.

Maybe, after I've had coffee, I'll try guessing again.

Jack Ballinger

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dikaiosyne
Posted by: dikaiosyne on Dec 17, 2005 7:21 AM   
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It seems that I've stirred up some reaction to my poor... poor Curt (OK its KURT!) Vonnegut piece. Good....very, VERY GOOD! I do feel as though I've not had a good day unless I've pissed off some left wing whack jobs. I've had a good day!! I know you mealy mouthed minions of all things left wing have a place in your hearts for old Kurt but I still believe that he is destined to become a trivia question on "Jeopardy"..... Probably the first round $200 question in the "Inconsequential liberal writers category" . Perhaps he'll get mentioned occasionally in some class rooms on a liberal campi where the students will stare blankly into space trying to come up with the answer to the question posed. Fate has destined him to historical and eventual literary obscurity and he hasn't yet accepted that fact. Personally I'm OK with obscurity. It doesn't bother me a bit. It bothers the Hell out of him though. That's good....very, VERY GOOD!

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» Do not feed the trolls Posted by: tcx2
» RE: Do not feed the trolls Posted by: morticia
Ignorance ain't always bliss
Posted by: veive on Dec 17, 2005 10:36 AM   
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For those poor souls concerned about Kurt's fate
Visit for some consolation.

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Bush: Deaf Man Talking
Posted by: shadow7 on Dec 17, 2005 11:01 AM   
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Another reflection on the deaf man and his cohorts who are leading us into the abyss:
GW BUSH - DEAF MAN, TALKING

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» RE: Bush: Deaf Man Talking Posted by: bambic
critics of KV missing the medium
Posted by: vespasian01 on Dec 18, 2005 1:50 AM   
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Vonnegut, like Chomsky, has a worldview he wants to share with the rest of us. For both of these men the notion being promoted is justice. There are no Party lines to be bothered with here. In Chomsky's case, the activist, brimming over with facts and historical connections, uses brute force in oratory to plow through the arguments of the less informed. In the case of Kurt, however, art is his medium. Whether through fiction or opinion pieces, Vonnegut is at his best when choosing allegory over rant, sly simile over jesus you're stupid. If nothing else, critics of the old artist ought to encourage KV to pass along his technique to those who are searching for a means of expression. Its a very neat technique and one which can be used to promote any set of ideals, regardless of its place on the sliding scale of conviction. And always remember, you doubters, Kurt keeps a vial of ice-nine somewhere. Don't get him so mad that he drops the pellet.
~pax nobis~

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****
Posted by: decembrist on Dec 18, 2005 3:21 AM   
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I have a feeling most don't read the poetry posted on Alternet. I do, although I never respond. Vonnegut's piece reminds me of a poem I fully agree with, although it was written more than 40 years ago.

Just the first lines....

While this America settles in the mould of its vulgarity,
heavily thickening to empire,
And protest, only a bubble in the molten mass, pops
and sighs out, and the bubble bursts
...

From Robinson Jeffers' "Shine, Perishing Republic"

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» More Poetry Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: More Poetry Posted by: morticia
An inspiration lost on modern America
Posted by: may261989 on Dec 18, 2005 9:01 PM   
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What comes across is Vonnegut's humanity.. I think it was in Hocus Pocus where the character Jack Patton said: "human beings are a thousand times dumber and meaner than they think they are"
The right wing trolls on this message board will never get the message , they claim intelligence yet bray like donkeys when criticism is levelled at the most stupid idiot to rule any nation in the history of this planet.
Mr Vonnegut you have been an inspiration to us Colonials DownUnder with your insight into humanity.. and you have given us some hope that somewhere in America voices of reason and understanding still exist.
p.s.
I wonder, do Right wingers share their toys? Isnt that Socialism :)

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small town mind
Posted by: small town mind on Dec 21, 2005 12:37 PM   
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goverment wonts the do away with God the republican back moral majority wonts to balance the budget by cuting out health Care to the old and the very young even though Jesus teach to care for the poor people

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