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Why Arnold Killed Tookie

By Dave Zirin, AlterNet. Posted December 13, 2005.


This is Schwarzenegger's 'mission accomplished' moment for his right wing, pro-death base; but his 'mission' will fail.
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[Editor's Note: WireTap Magazine sent a reporter to cover the protests at San Quentin Prison last night and this morning. Please read Tookie's Final Hour for Jennifer Liss' report and photos from the prison.]

In the end, we can only assume the decision wasn't so "agonizing" after all. Last night Stan Tookie Williams was legally lynched by the state of California, at the behest of Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger who denied Williams' appeal for clemency. The Governor deemed that a man who had been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize five times and brokered gang truces from Newark to South Central was not worthy to walk and breathe among us.

Stan's case for clemency was so compelling it was articulated by people from Desmond Tutu to Snoop Dogg, and yet, watching Schwarzenegger in action has been to observe the nexus of cold-hearted political calculation and cowardice.

Williams' Attorney John Harris challenged the governor to meet with Tookie, saying to the San Francisco Chronicle, "It's impossible to me to believe that if you had met Stanley Williams and spent time with him, that you would not believe in his personal redemption." But that would require a courage the Governor has never demonstrated.

Unlike the movie tough guy always ready to look his victims in the eye -- a quip at the ready -- before shooting, stabbing, or beheading them, Arnold made his decision at safe remove, hanging out this weekend at his son's soccer game, his face a waxy mask of carefree detachment, while Tookie's supporters organized, marched, chanted and prayed themselves hoarse.

When it finally came time for Arnold to announce his personal judgment that Stan Williams should die, tragedy became farce. The Governor's office released an ugly scandalous diatribe that qualifies as nothing less than hate-speech.

As he -- or his script doctor -- wrote:

"The dedication of Williams' book Life in Prison casts significant doubt on his personal redemption. This book was published in 1998, several years after Williams' redemptive experience. Specifically the book is dedicated to Nelson Mandela, Angela Davis, Malcolm X, Assata Shakur, Geronimo Ji Jaga Pratt, Ramona Africa, John Africa, Leonard Peltier, George Jackson, Mumia Abu Jamal, and the countless other men, women, and youths, who have to endure the hellish oppression of living behind bars. The mix of individuals on this list is curious. Most have violent pasts and some have been convicted of committing heinous murders including the killing of law enforcement. But the inclusion of George Jackson on this list defies reason and is a significant indicator that Williams is not reformed and that he still sees violence and lawlessness as a legitimate means to address societal problems."

For Tookie, all of these folks, from Mandela, to Malcolm, to Assata, are one and the same: people of color who strove for liberation in the darkest of circumstances. For Schwarzenegger, the whole lot is the same as well: people who are his political enemies because they refused to be broken. Notice the singling out of George Jackson, author of Soledad Brother, a book for which there is no evidence Schwarzenegger has so much as skimmed. Jackson was someone who despite being framed for his political activism never stopped organizing. That is the person Schwarzenegger wants to kill by executing Tookie.

Later, Arnold passes judgment on Williams' very redemption, writing, "Is Williams' redemption complete and sincere, or is it just a hollow promise? . . . Without an apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings there can be no redemption." In other words, because Williams has consistently defended his own innocence, he should die. But as Tookie once said, "Many people expect me to apologize for crimes I didn't commit--just to save my life. Of course I want to live, but not by having to lie."


Digg!

Dave Zirin is the author of "What's My Name Fool? Sports and Resistance in the United States." Read more of his work at Edgeofsports.com.

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View:
Evangelical Hypocrites
Posted by: chuckpaugh on Dec 13, 2005 5:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The case of Mr. Williams being denied clemency and appeals to his death sentence goes to show the contradiction in theology within the currently popular fundamentalist Evangelical cult. I call it a cult because it does not adhere to the teachings of Christianity. It calls for the murder of abortion doctors, it calls for murder in criminal cases, yet it says that ALL LIFE IS SACRED when it comes to the abortion issue and those on life support. Jesus himself was very adamant that capital punishment was a sin and not to be allowed by Christianity. Yet, the popular Evangelical cult salivates at the idea of pulling the switch with such leaders as Pat Robertson calling for the assassination of world leaders. The fundamentalist Evangelical cult is nothing more than the American version of the Taliban.

» RE: vangelical Hypocrites Posted by: iqanh
» RE: vangelical Hypocrites Posted by: porgygirl
» RE: vangelical Hypocrites Posted by: neojerk
» RE: vangelical Hypocrites Posted by: Lizka
The P.O.T. Party vs The Terminator
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Dec 13, 2005 6:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People Over Tyrants Party strongly condems this act of murder. Killers,real or set-up,are already out of society and that's where you'd want people like that. Spending ones life behind bars is a hell world to start with. Finding the will to work for postive change in such an environment only shows
transformation can and does take place. The fact that we have a death penalty makes us more like animals than rational humans. This treatment must end.
Most folks are hearing of this party for the first time here, for good reason. We are against the Tyranny of the People.
If you want to join ,all you have to do is be sick of this kind of crap.Sick of non-violent people being put in prison and jail. Sick of innocents being killed for political ends. Sick of humans being treated like chattle,used and abused to help keep the money so far out of the people's hands,you'd need the Hubble Telescope to find a nickel.
Check out yesterday's post about the Ohio fiasco. The party might be in it's infancy,but infants grow,and besides
How much fun is it to throw a massive P.O.T. Party?

No big loss here.
Posted by: DFrost on Dec 13, 2005 6:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sorry, I'm not buying the "Tookie as great hero" line. The guy was a mass murderer and the only objection I have to his execution is that it was long overdue.

You can take a principled stand against the death penalty, if you wish, and that's another story and another debate. However, if there is to be a death penalty, Tookie certainly earned it.

As to whether he really turned his life around or not, I don't know (I suspect it was a put-on), but that's not the point. Because of Tookie, there are at least four people whose lives were brutally taken from them. Perhaps you could spare a thought for them, while you're heaping undeserved praise on this unrepentant killer.

» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: drone
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: airzona
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: mclare
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: jezzigogs
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: cynicl
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: DFrost
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: mclare
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: jag31
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: cynicl
» RE: Yes I would! Posted by: fullavit@hotmail.com
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: Lizka
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: DFrost
» Hi, again! Posted by: DFrost
» & on & on & on...... Posted by: adrianw
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: Lizka
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: Katrinepa
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: airzona
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: slav
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: mickey31
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: mclare
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: slav
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: Lizka
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: mclare
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: ALANHESTER
» Hey, Frost Posted by: russianblue1
» You're quibble on the word "mass". Posted by: ABetterFuture
» the real victims Posted by: kingfish
» RE: the real victims Posted by: Lizka
» RE: Hey, Frost Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: BLUEY
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: Liberal
» Liberal... Posted by: BEC
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: jokeer
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: PRETTYEYES26
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: kiacharon
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: Fuquan
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: Fuquan
» RE: No big loss here. Posted by: yellow
When you're right you're right
Posted by: Wolfe55 on Dec 13, 2005 6:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have to weigh in on this issue. I consider myself a liberal but at the same time I KNOW from experiences in other countries that the death penalty is an extremely effective deterrent. I also feel that if we open the Pandora's Box of declaring that redemption has occurred while a death row inmate has been in prison then we will have convicts writing books all over the country in a frenzied attempt to demonstrate their newfound value to society. Perhaps Williams felt remorse over the terrible violence and transgressions committed by the Crips over the quarter-century he has been behind bars but he was still found guilty of a capitol crime and sentenced for it in accordance to the law. The real problem with crime and punishement in this country is that sentences are already too often set aside or dragged through the court system for years, instead of being administered in a timely manner. Defendants are dismissed every day because they did not receive a speedy trial. The families of Mr. Williams' victims had to wait 24 years for their justice, and whether or not you agree with his execution you have to admit, that is a long time to wait.

» For Wolfe55 Posted by: cyclone
» RE: For Wolfe55 Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: For Wolfe55 Posted by: cyclone
» RE: For Wolfe55 Posted by: YogiBear
Tookie was no saint, hero, or model citizen
Posted by: noelahg on Dec 13, 2005 7:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
His death is being used to further the anti-death panalty cause. I find it rather repulsive. What Tookie did was attempt to redeem himself (perhaps in an attempt to not be put to death?). That's all one can ever do when incarcerated. The fact of the matter is that he arbitrarily levied the death penalty on quite a few people (and most likely more that aren't known). His guilt wasn't in question. Because of the way our legal system is set up he was given the time to think and reflect on what he had done. That doesn't change the fact that he murdered people in cold blood, and I believe you should die for that. The victims aren't around to give their perspective.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Dec 13, 2005 7:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Why Arnold killed Tookie"?

The gubernator of kaleeforneeyah had nothing to do with Williams execution. A jury of William's peers found him guilty of slaying four people, a judgment that has stood for twenty five years.

If one insists on completely divorcing William's from his own accountability--and subsequent execution--for the commission of multiple murders, then the blame for said execution falls squarely on our society. There are plenty of rational reasons to oppose the death penalty. "The gubernator killed Tookie" because he's a big fat republican meany head is not chief among them; it is a distraction. A shallow, rather stupid one, at that.

There are also plenty of rational reasons not to oppose the Mr. Me-a-verse. That he did not preempt William's peers, who found him a murderer, and the many judges who ruled on his sentence is not, however, chief among them. It is merely a distraction. And, again, a shallow and rather stupid one at that.

» Oops. Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Posted by: parochial
» Distractions. Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Posted by: ALANHESTER
» And theoretically... Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Posted by: kiacharon
Will the real AlterNet readers please stand up?
Posted by: chitownfiloz on Dec 13, 2005 7:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am struck by the lack of compassion and abundance of ignorance in the preceding comments. This must be the work of AlterNet crashers because, while I don't want to essentialize the AlterNet reader, I find it unlikely that comments that seem to resemble some kind of conservative talking points would be the handiwork of those who enjoy the perspective of this site on a daily basis. I certainly don't understand why opposition to the death penalty is "another argument." If one stands in opposition to the death penalty, then one would certainly stand in opposition to killing Tookie Williams. The person who claimed that the death penalty is a deterrent needs to only do a cursory study of pretty much every industrialized nation's crime/murder rates compared to ours. Finally, I can accept that those who are in favor of the death penalty and against clemency en toto were in favor of killing Tookie Williams, but anyone who does not admit that he was the absolute posterboy for clemency (if we are to operate with clemency as a part of the system) does not know much about the case or Tookie's life.

» RE: When we do, we get banned! Posted by: fullavit@hotmail.com
» RE: Addendum Posted by: Jarnsaxa
» RE: Addendum Posted by: YogiBear
I praise the system.
Posted by: libdisorder on Dec 13, 2005 7:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He's a killer. He was convicted. He was executed. I praise and embrace our justice system today, because it worked. Simple children's books and Nobel Peace Prize nominations do not change the fact that Williams was a killer. He was sentenced to death, and I am happy he has paid the ultimate price. Arnold didn't kill Tookie. Lethal injection prescribed by the justice system did. He's had his share of appeals which have been denied. I hope the families of the victims have some closure, if any. Another killer has been executed. Thank you.

» RE: I praise the system. Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: I praise the system. Posted by: cyclone
» RE: I praise the system. Posted by: dashtotexas
» RE: I praise the system. Posted by: Lizka
» RE: I praise the system. Posted by: Gisele
» RE: I praise the system. Posted by: jokeer
Oh and by the way...
Posted by: libdisorder on Dec 13, 2005 7:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Liberalism really is a mental disorder...

» And Neo-fascism isn't? Posted by: gs15
» RE: And Neo-fascism isn't? Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: And Neo-fascism isn't? Posted by: Doug1956
» RE: And Neo-fascism isn't? Posted by: Common Sense
» RE: And Neo-fascism isn't? Posted by: fullavit@hotmail.com
» RE: Oh and by the way... Posted by: mickey31
» RE: Oh and by the way... Posted by: Lizka
uk discust
Posted by: zsooki on Dec 13, 2005 7:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i think it is discusting and cowerdly how "govenor"arnold and the american judicial system can put a man to death in the blink of an eye!! sure he did rong whatever his crimes may be but people do change!! even the most evil of people can change!!TOOKIE WILLIAMS has spent his time in jail bettering himself tryin to make right his rongs! tookie williams has spent the best part of his life in jail and let me tell you thats no easy thing!! a life behind bars is enough for any man! i challenge george bush and now govenor swartzenegger to step up and be counted!! you have killed countless men not only within the american judicial; system but around the world! now is your time to take your penelty!? but no thats different! they are handing out justice!??? well from the united kingdom i can honestly say to you "THERE IS NO JUSTICE IS PUTTING SOMEONE TO DEATH!! ONLY AN ABUSE OF POWER!!"

» RE: uk discust Posted by: Common Sense
» RE: uk discust Posted by: taxidave
Tookie 4, Bush 32,000
Posted by: Artkansas on Dec 13, 2005 7:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we want to be fair, perhaps there are other mass murderers that we should consider bringing to justice. If Manson was culpable, why not Bush?

» RE: Tookie 4, Bush 32,000 Posted by: ALANHESTER
California is eerily resembling Kansas these days
Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 13, 2005 8:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And the media defending Arnold's horrible record in the state by shifting to hot button issues such as death penalty proves it. Arnold couldn't keep the state in fiscal sanity so like most Republicans these days, he goes out on a limb and tries to hype what's left of his arrogant macho bullshit by making a big deal about the DEATH PENALTY just like he did ILLEGAL ALIENS. Arnold may want to take a cue from KILgore's defeat that in times of major crisis, bait and switching voters on cultural hot button issues doesn't pay. All CA needs is a populist Democrat, no more DLCers please, to send Arnold back to Hollywood where he belongs.

Barbarians breed barbaric behaviour
Posted by: wisewebwoman on Dec 13, 2005 8:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isn't this whole execution thing symptomatic of the outlook of the U.S.A. today? The eye for the eye thing. 3000 killed in the Towers, let's go kill 100,000 in Iraq. Death as the solution for any wrong done us, or not. Death as an unfortunate aside to life (how many American children are killed 'accidentally' by handguns ever year?) The carelessness of New Orleans still takes my breath away all those ignored warnings and for years. What is the infant mortality rate due to no health care??? One of the worst in the world, right. And more, and on -'friendly fire', my arse. Tookie is only a tiny sideshow to this empirical disdain for life - with one exception, the unborn babies.

Reap what u sow ...
Posted by: Blitzkrieg on Dec 13, 2005 8:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After reading and following what has happened ... they should have done it earlier and saved the taxpayer money, after all he showed no compassion why should anyone else, and now as per usual ur gonna throw up a racial issue ... you people cant get over it ... u get what u give ... end of story :)
And to top it off I'm from South Africa ... where murders rapes and armed robberies is becoming a national sport ...
Everyone deserves peace and happiness irrespective of race or upbringing and to those who go out their way to wreck lives .... just be thankful ... I wud have u shot on the spot :))

» RE: eap what u sow ... Posted by: cyclone
» RE: eap what u sow ... Posted by: Blitzkrieg
» RE: eap what u sow ... Posted by: cyclone
» RE: eap what u sow ... Posted by: Blitzkrieg
» RE: eap what u sow ... Posted by: cyclone
» RE: eap what u sow ... Posted by: ewfors
» RE: eap what u sow xxxx 2 :) Posted by: Blitzkrieg
» For Blitzkrieg Posted by: cyclone
» RE: For Blitzkrieg Posted by: Blitzkrieg
» RE: eap what u sow ... Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: eap what u sow ... Posted by: Blitzkrieg
» RE: eap what u sow ... Posted by: lady42
» Other words by a Great man Posted by: cyclone
» RE: Other words by a Great man Posted by: Blitzkrieg
» RE: Other words by a Great man Posted by: Blitzkrieg
The System Worked... Then Broke Down Again
Posted by: TheySayImUnamerican on Dec 13, 2005 8:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In theory - though rarely in actuality - the prison system is about incarceration for purposes of rehabilitation and eventual re-entry into society. Admittedly, the idea is a complete farce; it is a system of violence breeding violence, and those that are imprisoned, as often as not, come out even worse than when they went in.

But in this case, we saw a man who actually was rehabilitated. Whether it was because of the system or in spite of it, whether he changed to try to save his own life or those of others, is irrelevant. The fact is he had changed, and would have been a benefit, not a menace, to society had he been granted clemency.

Do remember that clemency is not a pardon; it is not a "get out of jail free" card. Those who believe Mr. Williams was still a ruthless killer did not need to peek over the fence whenever a U-Haul showed up to make sure Mr. Williams wasn't moving in next door. Odds are, even were his life spared, he'd have spent the rest of it behind bars. That isn't inappropriate, all things considered.

But I do believe he'd have spent that time doing good, as much as is possible from the confines of the american prison system. From what he accomplished over the years, it looks like quite a bit is possible for those who are so inclined.

This was a travesty. It was shameful. We had that rarest of exceptions - the person for whom the system did some good - and then went ahead and killed him anyway.

Typical.

» RE: The System Worked... Then Broke Down Again Posted by: straitenotleftorright
The Spirit and the Letter
Posted by: Sojourner on Dec 13, 2005 8:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Arnold had the opportunity to invoke the distinction between the spirit and the letter that is placed in the governor's hands because a law is only a means and a human being is an end in himself. I think he was wrong to refuse clemency.

I urged him by letter to grant clemency. I hope all his critics here did the same. But when it comes to what I think versus what he thinks, he was elected to do the best he can -- not to be a saint.

Scandalous Power Over Another Life
Posted by: porgygirl on Dec 13, 2005 8:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Something that's really been put into sharp relief by this case is the fact that it comes down to one person (the governor) making the final decision about whether another person (the condemned) should live or die.

This is horrifying on so many levels, but the one that strikes me the hardest is that Williams (guilty or not, redeemed or not) was ultimately executed because of a politically motivated decision by an ambitious man. It's a really stark instance of an ongoing horror: ambitious politicians have thrown away thousands and thousands of human lives, incarcerating and executing mostly poor and minority people (with sentences often grossly oversevere and meted out in unfair trials), in order to show how tough they are on crime.

Alas.

» You're forgetting... Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: You're forgetting... Posted by: porgygirl
» RE: You're forgetting... Posted by: liberalibrarian
» Except... Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: xcept... Posted by: porgygirl
» Question for ABetterFuture Posted by: cyclone
» Agree with you. Small suggestion. Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Back at you. Posted by: ABetterFuture
You obviously didn't read my post very carefully
Posted by: chitownfiloz on Dec 13, 2005 8:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However you did manage to put a lot of words in my mouth. I specifically said that I did not want to essentialize "The AlterNet Reader" but that conservative talking points probably weren't on the tip of most of their tongues. Do you find this to be an unreasonable conclusion? I highly doubt many regular AlterNet readers would. If you are saying that it's okay for AlterNet readers to be death penalty advocates, I don't disagree with you and I never suggested otherwise. However, to say that the death penalty is a deterrent is flat-out ignorant. For every Singapore you want to use as an example, I can hold up 3 or 4 European countries that do not have the death penalty and have radically lower crime rates. That means that the death penalty as deterrent theory is inconclusive at best. Very few experts on the subject would even go that far. Most assert it is no deterrent at all. Further, my guess is that you wouldn't want any part of living under Singapore's laws.

Tookie is home... Arnold is not
Posted by: ggmurray on Dec 13, 2005 9:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well Tookie, you're home now, and safe from all the errors of our culture. Arnold unfortunately has shackled himself to the crime he could have avoided. Now you are free, and perhaps in time Arnold will find his own redemption. In the meantime, this crime is a burden he must bear.

» RE: My, your a nasty Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Tookie is home... Arnold is not Posted by: fullavit@hotmail.com
My Point Of View
Posted by: donmega on Dec 13, 2005 9:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a young black man, I know how easy it is to pull the race card, but I do not. I understand how Tookie Williams was a product of his environment and this led him to create a family of brothers for security and recognition ("the crips"). This by no means excuses violence and murder, whether he is guilty or innocent, that is another debate. I admit that I was not that involved in keeping abreast of the details on this story until a while ago. I have watched the movie with Foxx. I have read a few articles. I researched the definition of clemency and cases where it has been granted. For the Govenor not to grant it defies the very definition and purpose of CLEMENCY. If it does not apply here, then when does it apply? And everybody wonders why alot of young black men are so frustrated and choose not to get involved in politics. Cuz we see bullsh&$ like this. White America DOES NOT CARE about real justice. It is just cold calculated politics. I guess from a shallow point of view I can say that the Governor better kiss the minority vote goodbye if he ever plans on running for anything else. First time he is faced with a real moral decision, he folds. 1,000's of childrens lives changed for the better, several Nobel Peace Prize nominations, and worldwide acclaim to me do not equate to a "shallow promise" as Arnold put it.

» RE: My Point Of View Posted by: mclare
» RE: My Point Of View Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: My Point Of View Posted by: tcx2
» RE: My Point Of View Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: My Point Of View Posted by: Wolfe55
Why should I feel compassion for a murderer?
Posted by: Boomerang on Dec 13, 2005 9:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Williams MURDERED four people. That judgement stood for 25 years. He betrayed everything civilized in society and earned a punishment he deserved.

Society is composed of laws, with accompanying punishments for breaking those laws. Williams committed one of the most heinous acts imaginable, he took the lives of four innocent people, and now people want to defend him? He earned his punishment, and not even his reform can spare him from justice.

Redemtion means to die? (in tookies case)
Posted by: jawkneemusic on Dec 13, 2005 9:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To me is seems that Arnold didn't have the courage to stand up to the hypocritical right winged agenda. Or maybe he saw this as an oppertunity to boost his approval rating considering that more then half of california is in support of this inhumane treament of prisoners. I think its sad that we live in a State or country even thats so Hypocritical that we condemn the murders of others across the globe but yet we throw a man in prison for 26 years and decided that after he has reformed to give hime the needle. Who knows if he really commited those crimes. And even if he did he served his time. No was one was asking for a release. He just wanted to live. Doesnt seem fair to justify the victims killings by killing. What kind of example are we setting for the future gernerations? I dont know those people who he supposedly killed but i doubt they would want him to share their fate. Just in september my best freind was shot by some punk ass little high school kids who think their in a gang. My freind was an active member at his church, he tought young children to read write spell, math and speak english as their seconed language. And he was shot dead by the same type of people Tookie was trying to help just cause he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Now as angry as i was when i found out what happened to him. I wanted to kill the ones that did this to him. But after having enough time to think about it. Killing them will not bring my freind back. Same case with Tookie. Now i ask the families of the victims to look around the house, go into the room that their family member once to slept in and tell me if they have come home. I think its safe to assume they're still dead. May be insensitive to some but its the truth. I think we all need to learn a lesson from this. Capital punishment is no better then the person being punished for what they did. Eye for an eye? is that the American way, or the Californian way?

» RE: How Posted by: russianblue1
Killing
Posted by: leeman on Dec 13, 2005 9:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Without arguing Williams' innocence or guilt, there is always the possibility of executing an innocent person. The death penalty is final and irreversible.
The death penalty won't bring back a loved one, "closure" notwithstanding.
More effective than "an eye for an eye" might be providing financial aid and psychological counseling, to at least begin putting the family's shattered lives together.
The roster of nations that employ the death penalty includes such bastions of human rights as Saudi Arabia, China and Rwanda.
The death penalty, like torture, has no place in a civilized nation.

» RE: Killing Posted by: mclare
» RE: Killing Posted by: cyclone
» RE: Killing Posted by: YogiBear
Our Justice system is flawed
Posted by: OSimpson on Dec 13, 2005 10:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our Justice system is completely flawed when it takes 24 years from conviction to sentence execution.

"Tookie" Williams was convicted of multiple homicides and sentenced to death. What govenor happens to be in office at the time his appeals FINALLY ran out is irrelevent.

Capital punishments ineffectiveness is due to how serious a deterrent is "If you kill someone we MIGHT put you to death in 20 years or so".

Where is the compassion and caring for the victims' families?
Posted by: thedude on Dec 13, 2005 10:19 AM   
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What about them? The writer of this article challenge's the Governor's courage by saying he didn't face "Tookie". Well what about Tookie facing the families of his victims? What about that courage? He MURDERED THOSE PEOPLE IN COLD BLOOD!! He killed an entire family people! Imagine the kind of ruthless and cold-blooded nature it would take to kill a whole family, mother, father, and daughter!
Here's my challenge to Tookie's supporters and to the writer of this article;
will you be there the next time a skinhead or a nazi is to be executed? Will you be there to defend the life of a convicted rapist or baby killer? Will you be there to defend Scott Peterson?
Or do you only support and defend the murderers when they're black and some celebrities like them?

» RE: Will I be there next time . . . ? Posted by: TheySayImUnamerican
Why is all this hate and anger aimed at Governor Schwarzaneggar?
Posted by: thedude on Dec 13, 2005 10:20 AM   
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Any of the previous California Governors could have granted Tookie clemency. Where is the rage and hate for them?

Forget about the dead much?
Posted by: lamar on Dec 13, 2005 10:21 AM   
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Or he killed Mr. Williams because Mr. Williams killed people. Maybe if Tookie Tookie can bring back those dead people, we'll let him live the rest of his life in jail.

TOOKIE DESERVED TO DIE
Posted by: auriferrous on Dec 13, 2005 10:26 AM   
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David Zirin;

I just read your article about Tookie Williams.



Please verify your facts before you write them because you do a disservice to yourself and your readers.



Tookie was not convicted by an all-white jury. One was Hispanic and one was half-black. I know it sounds better for your side of the argument, but, when held to the light, screams of ignorance.



Tookie did not help thousands of kids-only 300 of his books have been sold in the United States. Did “thousands” of kids share these 300 books?



Lastly, George Jackson was a horrible man. His people stormed the courtroom during his trial, took hostages and people ended up dead. The judge….two or three others….The governor was correct in writing that a man cannot be redeemed if he dedicates a children’s book to a killer.



If Tookie was truly redeemed, he would have turned state’s evidence concerning what he knew of the gangbangers he was involved with, but he didn’t want to be a “snitch”.

And he would have atoned for his barbaric murders. The case against him was overwhelming. The shotgun casing, the 38 witnesses who testified that they either saw Tookie commit the murders or heard him brag about them…Tookie’s handwritten escape plan to murder and blow up guards to make his escape….



This man deserved to die and the world is a better place for it.

» RE: TOOKIE DESERVED TO DIE Posted by: mclare
» RE: TOOKIE DESERVED TO DIE Posted by: thedude
» RE: TOOKIE DESERVED TO DIE Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: TOOKIE DESERVED TO DIE Posted by: thedude
» RE: TOOKIE DESERVED TO DIE Posted by: straitenotleftorright
Moral Authority?
Posted by: thedude on Dec 13, 2005 10:50 AM   
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the same people who protest the execution of Tookie are most likely the same ones who support Cindy Sheehan. And so to those people I offer this part of an article about this execution:

"Lora Owens, Owens' stepmother, watched Williams die. In the days before the execution, she was one of the outspoken advocates wh