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The Mess We've Made in Iraq

By Cenk Uygur, Huffington Post. Posted December 2, 2005.


Our ambassador to Iraq is the first adminstration official to own up to the Pandora's box we opened in Iraq, but says now they have a plan to fix it.
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United States Ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad recently had a very frank conversation with Newsweek's Michael Hirsh. In this conversation, he admitted the United States has opened up a Pandora's Box in Iraq which might create a world with far more problems. He is also the first administration official to acknowledge the Iraq war might lead to a bigger and more dangerous regional war in the Middle East.

And finally, the ambassador seems to concede that the U.S. had no plan in Iraq until four months ago.

This kind of honesty makes you wonder how the ambassador got a job at the administration. But there is a reason behind this frank talk. The ambassador recognizes that if the government doesn't own up to some of the mistakes they've made, they'll have no credibility left -- this is a realization his bosses in the administration still have not come around to. So, he stands a fair chance of being punished for this transgression. No truth slips out of this White House without a price to pay.

Keep in mind, Khalilzad has gone on this campaign to make sure we salvage the mess we made in Iraq. The reason he is speaking out now is because he's afraid that if we leave Iraq now, we will have permanently botched the job. I share his concern, though we might not agree on strategy.

First, the ambassador points out that we might have started an enormous problem we can't keep a lid on if we leave Iraq soon:

A Pandora's box has been opened. The future of the world is at stake here because this region, Iraq, is the defining challenge of our time ... We need to close this in a way that does not produce huge problems down the road, that ultimately produces isolationism at home and a world with far more security problems than at present.

Remember, there was no Pandora's Box in Iraq before we invaded. The U.S. ambassador says it has been opened. Who opened it? Obviously, we did.

He says at the end that we could have a world with "far more security problems" than the present. Why? Because we unleashed sectarian strife between Sunnis and Shiites and allowed al-Qaeda into the country to set up a base of operations. Now that these forces have been put into motion, they will be exceedingly difficult to stop.

The ambassador agrees:

People need to be clear what the stakes are here. If we were to do a premature withdrawal, there could be a Shia-Sunni war here that could spread beyond Iraq. And you could have Iran backing the Shias and Sunni Arab states backing the Sunnis. You could have a regional war that could go on for a very long time, and affect the security of oil supplies. Terrorists could take over part of this country and expand from here. And given the resources of Iraq, given the technical expertise of its people, it will make Afghanistan look like child's play.

Why did we not consider this possibility before we invaded? It makes you despair of democracy. We couldn't muster up 51 senators -- or just one president -- who were smart enough to realize this might happen. Ambassador Khalilzad paints this as a possible out come if we leave Iraq prematurely. But the reality is that it is an outcome that is very likely no matter when we leave Iraq.

If we stay longer, are we really going to be able to resolve the Sunni-Shiite conflict? How does training the Shiite army -- because that is what we are doing right now when we train the "Iraqi" army -- help to resolve this conflict? It doesn't. It makes a Sunni bloodbath more likely. Are we under the delusion that when we strengthen the Shiite majority and then leave the country, that the Shiites will be munificent with their new found power?

By the way, I also love the way the ambassador is not abashed about letting you know this is about the oil. It is clearly not his only concern, but it is the first thing he mentions in his parade of horribles. After all, we must secure the oil.

If we stay, we get caught in the middle of a civil war and attract foreign terrorists who come to fight us. If we leave, the war breaks out immediately, possibly devolves into a region wide conflict and terrorists might have a base that makes Afghanistan look like child's play. In other words the ambassador is saying, if we stay there will be trouble, if we leave it might be double.

He's not alone. Professor Juan Cole, perhaps the preeminent expert on Iraq in the country, has said the same thing to us on The Young Turks. The professor says a complete withdrawal would lead to a disastrous region wide conflict, but that staying only exacerbates some of the problems in the country.

How did we get into this mess? You have your president and vice president to thank. But Ambassador Khalilzad says we shouldn't worry, they now have a plan.

There is an idea that there is no plan, and we believe we do have a plan. We've worked very hard in the last four months to come up with a plan, and we're talking about how to communicate that more effectively to the Congress.

In the last four months?! My God man, what have you people been doing for the last two and a half years? You stumble into a war that opens up a Pandora's Box that could lead to a war that engulfs the Middle East and make Afghanistan look like child's play and you just came up with a plan four months ago?


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Thanks For The Memories
Posted by: mebadgett on Dec 2, 2005 12:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html

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» RE: Thanks For The Memories Posted by: ShaSpirit
» RE: Thanks For The Memories Posted by: decembrist
» RE: Thanks For The Memories Posted by: Basenjis
I am not sure what the plan is, but I like some of the ideas
Posted by: ShaSpirit on Dec 2, 2005 1:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only other plan I have heard of is the one building spheres of influence that gradually enlarge under Iraqi troops. We cannot stop the fighting between Sunni and Shii.

I felt from the very beginning that splitting Iraq was the best deal. It is too big to govern with three different groups, who will all have private armies. The Arab League says they will help, if we will leave. They asked us to leave, so Bush said he would go if they asked. I think he forgot that part. I hate to leave Iraq in a mess that Bush&Co made.

Our president is losing what little mind he has and is becoming unstable mentally. His world is not real and I have no idea how we can change that anytime before the 2006 elections. HuPo says he is not working with Cheney or Rove, and for some reason I do not feel very secure with that knowledge. Can we send for his Dad? How about his Dad and Clinton to rescue the nation from this disaster? I would vote for that. I do not know about you, but I feel afraid something bad is going to happen.

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The Damage Done
Posted by: decembrist on Dec 2, 2005 3:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The majority of the damage has already been done. Iraq has been invaded, occupied and divided along barely latent sectarian lines.

I find this article somewhat naieve, with the author's mention of the reluctance of Shia to show "good sportsmanship." Also the line:

"when will all the arms and training we're giving to this Shiite army turn around and be used against us?"

By many accounts, weapons and training we've provided HAVE ALREADY been used against us. This is from Juan Cole (www.juancole.com): "I have heard from contacts in Iraq that the soldiers in the new army often don't get their paychecks, and aren't properly equipped, and sometimes are reduced to selling their bullets on the black market. Guess who buys them?"

That is the weapons, as for the training, witness Moqtada Al-Sadr's militia which engaged US troops a while back... they are believed to have infiltrated the Iraqi army in large numbers.

As for Shrub's plan for "victory"... no matter what we do we're in for a nasty ride - our troops or our objectives ("goals") or both. The real idiocy lay in the initial invasion, along moral and legal grounds, and also because our forces had no working plan for the occupation stage. Check out this synopsis at Tom Dispatch.

Bush and the Neocon Action Figures should be removed from office... justice would demand it. But alas, how can that happen realistically? Bastards... we of the democracy will have to wait for more of their slime to be "unearthed" by mainstream journalists.

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» RE: The Damage Done Posted by: feduphoosier
An opportunity...
Posted by: adp3d on Dec 2, 2005 3:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...for a Kurdish homeland. How about Kurdistan? How about Babylon in the midsection and Mesopotamia in the south with DMZ's in between?

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» RE: An opportunity... Kurdistan won't fly! Posted by: fullavit@hotmail.com
Are going to lose credibility?
Posted by: cyclone on Dec 2, 2005 7:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Surely you jest. America's credibility went out the door the day Boosh was appointed President. It will take 50 years, if ever, to get any measurable portion of it back should we survive that long.

We need Boosh deposed, and Carter and Clinton going all over the world, on their knees, begging for forgiveness. They are the only two with enough international respect to pull it off. That is the only hope we have. Our nation will not survive if Boosh is allowed to finish his term.

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» RE: Boy do I agree with you Posted by: ShaSpirit
» RE: Boy do I agree with you Posted by: cyclone
Dim-Son didn't learn a thing from Dumb Daddy
Posted by: sausage on Dec 2, 2005 8:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The moron currently occupying the White House said, way back in 2002 or was it 2003 after "weapons of mass destruction" were never found, that we, the United States, merely intended "regime change." Saddam was a "bad man" who tortured his people and unleashed WMDs on a Kurdish village following an attempt on his sorry life in that remote town. (Wonder what we call the USMC's attack on Fallujah in vengence for the killing of four mercenaries...oops!..."contractors" last year?)

If Dim-Son merely intended "regime change" in Iraq, why didn't he take a page out of Dumb Daddy's "Manuel Noriega" playbook: Send in the Marines and a couple of Ranger companies, shoot up Baghdad, arrest Saddam and put some friendlier Baathist puppet in his place.

Barbara, honey, you got one stoopid son.

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Pandora's Box in Iraq? What About Here?!
Posted by: monkeywrench on Dec 2, 2005 8:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Author:
"The negligence of this administration is literally overwhelming. It takes my breath away."

What takes MY breath away is that the general public doesn't know or doesn't care. The mistakes, arrogance, and sheer incompetence of this administration have been so blatantly obvious for so damn long that a person woud have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to understand it – which is pretty much what our former guardians, the Fourth Estate, the mainstream media, has done for us. Good God, we RE-ELECTED this boob and his merry band of fascists (if you believe those election results)!

I thought before the 2004 "selection" that the only chance we had to withdraw was with a change of administration, which might open the door to international involvement and a solution not driven by greed and empire-building. Now that we're stuck with the Madness of King George (and the anti-Christ Cheney) for another four years, I have little hope that a conflagration can be avoided.

A populaton as ignorant as ours and a mainstream media completely willing to support that ignorance are sowing the seeds for the destruction of our democracy.

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» RE: GAO Report Posted by: Maryanne
» RE: GAO Report : Maryanne Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: GAO Report Posted by: davewuxi
marta
Posted by: cuja1 on Dec 2, 2005 9:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We must always remember who made the Iraq mess and no matter what plan one comes up with to fix it, they can't bring back the innocent ones killed by the Bush Bombs, especially the children!

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Old News
Posted by: 42Years on Dec 2, 2005 9:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The idea to split up Iraq into regional "states" is an old concept, but a good one. Because that is exactly what will save Iraq and the Middle East. They are tribal and would operate more effectively under this system. Stephen Pizzo made the analogy with Yugoslavia a couple of days ago on Newsforreal.com. Every thinking person who wants a real resolution in the best interests of all parties knows this is the best we can expect in Iraq. Mr. Pizzo also stated that all the oil reserves in Iraq would be shared equally by each regional state. Redeploy our troops to the borders of Iraq, negotiate an Iraqi government with equal representation by all factions, and create three regional governments, each with an equal vote in the future of Iraq. Give them money to rebuild their lands using their own hands and get our troops and contractors the heck out of there as soon as possible.

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» RE: Old News Posted by: Basenjis
We did know
Posted by: Marjorie G on Dec 2, 2005 9:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When John Kerry authorized the vote to go to the UN, it was an attempt to stop a runaway train. You say none knew, but in his authorization he foretold what would happen in this regime change, unilaterally, in this powder keg of ancient unrest. The more we harp on that we should have known the rush to war five months later, where Bush swore publicly for months not in the spirit on the IWR, we are saying we should not have at least tried to stop them at the UN, get the inspectors in to verify, thereby leaving the administration off the hook. The IWR was not a vote for war.

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Khalilzad: The Man With the Plan
Posted by: DennisDalrymple on Dec 2, 2005 9:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Uygur bemoans that Khalilzad and his war mongering colleagues have only had a plan for 4 months and stumbled into the war without one; and Khalilzad only now admits that this war is about oil. To the contrary, Khalilzad and his buddies, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Bolton, among other, signed a document addressed to then-President Bill Clinton on behalf of their neo-con think tank, Project for a New American Century dated Jan. 26, 1998 in which they pleaded: "It hardly needs to be added that if Saddam does acquire the capability to deliver weapons of mass destruction, as he is almost certain to do if we continue along the present course, the safety of American troops in the region, of our friends and allies like Israel and the moderate Arab states, and a significant portion of the world’s supply of oil will all be put at hazard." Their solution: "...it means removing Saddam Hussein and his regime from power."

Too bad we could not have curbed these jerks five years before the war they envisioned began.

Dennis
New York

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"our (sic) plan" .. "national debate" more supremacist imperialism
Posted by: verite on Dec 2, 2005 10:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
not thinking that helped initiate the Usuk attack in the first place.
The belligerant and occupying state (Usuk) should be the last to "decide" what to do with their Iraqmire.

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The Brilliance of GWB, the Greatest "Conservative"
Posted by: Tom Holum on Dec 2, 2005 11:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't know whether to laugh or cry whenever I hear people complain of Bush's alleged stupidity and negligence. On the contrary, I believe that this war has achieved what decades of conservative thinkers have dreamed about.

The war has immeasurably enriched military contractors, Halliburton and the rest, who are the heaviest contributors to the Republican party (and this war will continue to line their pockets for years to come), and a good portion of these riches will be inevitably be kicked back to the Republican party, ensuring a continuing cycle of benefits. It has contributed (in addition to GWB's ineffable tax schemes) to a seismic shift in wealth from the poor and working classes to the super-rich. It is in the process of destroying the comfortable middle class.

And the war has completely hollowed out the Federal treasury, and will continue to pile up deficits for years to come, thus "starving the beast" and destroying the hated legacy of FDR, the "welfare state," by making impossible the continuing operation of such despised programs as Social Security, Medicaid, student loans, farm subsidies, etc., etc., etc., simply because the Federal treasury will no longer have the funds to continue them.

These are things that Ronald Reagan and his ilk could only fantasize about. And it took "crazy George" only five years to accomplish it. Some smart cookie!

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» I completely agree Posted by: janvdb
» RE: I completely agree Posted by: cyclone
» RE: I completely agree Posted by: annm
» Brillant bit of satire... Posted by: sausage
Most Brilliant "Conservative"
Posted by: Tom Holum on Dec 2, 2005 11:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let me add that the complete destabilization of Iraq that GWB's war has accomplished has achieved what George Orwell predicted in 1984, the "never-ending war," whose horrible costs will only serve to highlight & enhance the gulf between rich and poor.

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One way to get out of Iraq
Posted by: janvdb on Dec 2, 2005 11:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is how I think we should get out of Iraq:

Stop building any permanent bases immediately. Stop all aggressive “sweeps” immediately. Acknowledge that the country will be partitioned into a largely Kurdish north, a largely Shiia south and a largely Sunni, oil-poor central/western region. Acknowledge that the ethnic group which dominates each region will slaughter and oppress any minority of another ethnic group left inside their borders.

Announce that we will be, by some deadline, relocating our troops to dug-in, defensive positions designed only to protect the borders of the newly-split-up countries, as above, and will help only those who AREN’T FIGHTING.

Call a conference for 15 January 2006 at which those lines will be drawn, whether the belligerents show up or not. Offer everyone money and air cover -- IF they respect the borders drawn up in this meeting which includes not just the Arab League (which is partial to the Sunnis), but representatives of Iran, Russia, the EU and the US. We can keep some kind of a verbal fig leaf about “federal Iraq” if we just must, but, practically, we will be dealing with three independent countries.

Move everyone who will voluntarily accept our relocation assistance to behind their side of those borders. Buy and build homes as needed and help the local governments set up clearing houses to assist homeowners in swapping, selling and buying homes and apartments to smooth this preventative “ethnic cleansing.”

Ethnic cleansing by relocation is unpleasant but it is clearly preferable to more of the slaughter we have already seen.

Shadowy groups operating behind country lines to suicide-bomb mosques and candy-chasing children must be disavowed and condemned publicly by the recognized government of their ethnic region and hard evidence that police equipment or uniforms from a recognized government are getting to fighting groups would result in cutbacks of supplies and air cover to the guilty recognized government.

continued below . . .

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One way to get out of Iraq, continued
Posted by: janvdb on Dec 2, 2005 11:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Re-establish the pre-war status quo in Kurdistan. First, remove some of our ground troops to Kurdistan and dig in there, so the war doesn't move up there. Just guard the perimeter, with the help of the peshmurgas -- if they need and want us. They have half the oil in Iraq and we can ship it through Turkey. Let the Kurds drive the remaining Arabs out of Mosul; we can't stop it and that is better than constant fighting and atrocities. Get assurances that the Kurds don’t plan to invade or agitate in Turkey.

Set up airbases in the Shia south and provide air cover only there, if the local governments want us to. Dig in there, if necessary. ASAP. invite in the Iranians to provide ground troops to assist the Shia protect the borders of their region, if necessary, so we can leave. We can get a lot of oil out of Basra by sea.

Let the Sunnis set up in the center of the country.

We should buy oil from the resulting states on whatever terms they wish to sell it.

The risk, if we can’t contain this ethnic fighting, is that we will have started a war which is essentially the Sunni-dominated states against the Shiia, or, the armies of Egypt equipped with the money of Saudi Arabia fighting Iran and the Shiia of southern Iraq. Sounds like a pushover, right -- Shiias lose again. Well, not so fast. The Shiia are numerically the majority in ALL these countries:

Saudi Arabia
Pakistan
Egypt
Jordan

We support a “friendly” Sunni tyrant which is oppressing a majority Shiia (Iran-friendly) population in each of these countries.

Any of these countries could explode tomorrow into the same ethnic slaughter we see in Iraq now. The Sunnis are already resorting to bombing Shia religious festivals in Pakistan to intimidate and silence them. The Sunni government of Saudi Arabia treats their Shiia majority worse than the Israelis treat the Palestinians (who are Shiia.)

We should insist that every one of these areas accept our doctors and nurses to provide free women’s-and-babies’ health care so that the long-term cause of the unrest -- massive youth unemployment -- can be brought under control.

continued below . . .

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One way to get out of Iraq, continued
Posted by: janvdb on Dec 2, 2005 11:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And, we must position ourselves now for the inevitable eventual collapse of these Sunni strongmen we have created and the accension to power of Iran-friendly Shiias in some of these countries. We need to get used to dealing with the Iranians and the Shiias. Since when is Iran any more of a “theocracy” than Saudi Arabia?

We need to gain some distance from our doomed old allies in the Middle East – the Sunnis. It isn't just that the Sunni ruling elites are morally repugnant, demographically overwhelmed and run rigid, corrupt bureaucracies which strangle their economies in the cradle while denying women the freedom which would end their destabilizing population explosions -- in addition, they are fostering, secretly funding and appeasing our worst enemies, Al Qaeda and the Wahabis.

All of the terrorists who are attacking us outside of Iraq (as opposed to the "terrorists" who are attacking Isreal) are Sunni. Wahhabis. Salafi. Born and bred by the very tyrants we have created and currently support.

Overall, it's very similar to the problem we had in Latin America for years -- we supported bloody, oppressive, corrupt military dictators and whenever any "democracy" broke out, the elected governments would kick our corporations out so we would have to attack or undermine it. We opposed every democratically-elected government in Latin America for decades and we are doing it still in Venezuela.

And now we are doing this in the Middle East.

So, learn from Central America. After decades of "fighting communism" there, once we finally gave up, the Marxists were in control for a few years and now, my inbox is full daily with salespitches from real estate developers in Nicaraugua touting the place as "the next big thing." Cheap beach property. Retire well on a budget.

Yep.

Ditto Vietnam.

Once we get out, capitalism and progress breaks out all over the place. Real capitalism, not our preferred crony capitalism.

Ha ha

So, get out. Stay out.

Develop solar and wind power and let them drink their oil.

Jan VanDenBerg

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The ambassador is still a member of The Project for a New American Century
Posted by: billyboy43 on Dec 2, 2005 12:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
three and a half years before the 9/11 attacks—the Project for the New American Century published an open letter in The Washington Times urging President Clinton to invade Iraq and overthrow Saddam Hussein. Among the eighteen signatories to this letter were ten people who would later join the Bush Administration. They are:
• Donald Rumsfeld: Secretary of Defense
• John Bolton: U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations
• Paul Wolfowitz: President of the World Bank and formerly Deputy Secretary of Defense
• Zalmay Khalilzad: U.S. Ambassador to Iraq
• Robert Zoellick: Deputy Secretary of State
• Elliott Abrams: Deputy National Security Advisor
• Peter Rodman: Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs
• Paula Dobriansky: Under Secretary of State for Global Affairs
• Richard Armitage: Former Assistant Secretary of Defense
• Richard Perle: Former Chairman of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board
Among the other founders of the Project for the New American Century were Dick Cheney, Lewis (Scooter) Libby, Jeb Bush and Dan Quayle.

They have no dedication to anything except 'the project'. Get them out, get out, and bring the troops home. Everything they say is deceitful, and designed to accomplish their private agenda of global, war-like, imperialist domination.
They will only cause more death and destruction if we do anything they advocate. They are liars down to the last one.
Thier own web page www.projectforanewamericancentury.org
looks like Hitlers Mein Kampf with a PR department.

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The irony.
Posted by: tcx2 on Dec 2, 2005 3:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Guess who warned us in Feb. of 2003 before the invasion about the insurgency that would happen? Osama bin Laden.

Guess who can save America from Washington right now? China can't do it because they depend on our consumer sheep. Iran can't do it because they are a nation. We have their precise location. And, well, they have no way of attacking us. Pakistan can't do it because Washington has their collective dicks up Musharraf's ass. Who's left? Osama and the ragtag desert terrorists. Oh the irony.

The biggest checkmate stinkfest ever. I'd rather have the Soviets and the Cold War back, thank you very much.

Oh yeah. It wasn't America that defeated the Soviets. It was the same ragtag team that led America out to the desert in the first place. Of course, I'm sure they knew that America's greed knows no boundaries. No thy enemy. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. It's like Washington is having collective amnesia. That, or they want millions of Americas to die within a decade.

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GAO REPORT
Posted by: krose on Dec 2, 2005 4:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FOR THOSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO ACCESS THE GAO REPORT, you can try to get it at:

www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/04/1532218


I don't know if it is still available there, but you might try. It was also on the Huffington Post yesterday, but it is gone now.

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sonofthewest
Posted by: sonofthewest on Dec 2, 2005 5:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What makes you think that Iraq is ours to divide. As far as I know Iraq has been declared by Bush and the occupation forces to be a sovereign nation, so these are their decisions. But, for arguements sake, if we pushed such a division would we give the Sunnis the oil resources in the North or in the South? Half of the oil in each area? The idiotic ideas proposed by schemes like this article are a reflection that the left and progressives can't bring themselves to understand that "benign" imperialism is still imperialism and the people subject to being imperial victims don't like it, never did and never will and at some point they will turn the weapons we supplied on our troops if we remain.

Further idiocy is the idea now being pushed by Cheney and some of the generals who want to get our ground troops out of harms way and then use air power to control the Iraqis. This is obvious genocide from the air and we should all be raising a howl of rage. I really don't want to sacrifcie more Iraqi dead for less American dead --- that is the height of racist nationalism and unfit for a Christian nation to propose.

The only answer to this mess consistent with the ideas of our Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, which calls for "the common defense", not "the common offense" against others is to get the hell out, send reparations to be used as the Iraqis see fit to return their country to prosperity, and then to buy Iraqi oil on the world market at the going prices. All else is folly!

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» RE: sonofthewest...well done Posted by: Captainmagic
» RE: sonofthewest Posted by: cyclone
SO WHAT DO WE DO? WHERE DO WE GO?
Posted by: krose on Dec 2, 2005 7:25 PM   
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WHO DO WE TURN TO? CERTAINLY NOT THE DEMS! I e-mailed Howard Dean today and asked him AGAIN to DO SOMETHING!!! I am FURIOUS, and besides railing at the media, which I do on a regular basis, I feel helpless!

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itchyvet
Posted by: itchyvet on Dec 3, 2005 2:27 AM   
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Sounds all nicey, nicey ect.

However, the article fails to address exactly WHO set Shiite aganst Sunni in the first place.

It also fails to address, who it was/is who has formulated and trained/equiped these death squads targeting Sunnis.

Similary, from the above, it would be clear to anyone who is not blind, that there is a FORMULATED ORCHESTRATED DELIBERATE PLAN to create discession and foment civil discord, with the ultimate aim and goal being civil war.

Now the million dollar question is ;

What Nation stands to gain the most, should civil war break out in Iraq ?????????????????????????????????????

For hundreds of years, the differeing Sects within Iraq, (despite strong claims and assertions being made by Western Media and Government sources) have lived and got on well together, to such an extent they intermarried for several generations, hardly a foundation for civil war and discord.

Until we have the arrival of the U.S.A. illegaly within the country, all of a sudden all hell let's loose.

OOPS !
Sorry, forgot, the U.S. came to bring them Freedom didn't it ?
More lilke freedom to butcher each other at the behest of the invaders.

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» RE: itchyvet Posted by: tcx2
Flip Flop...
Posted by: donsmith755 on Dec 5, 2005 6:49 PM   
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Republicans are pushing back citing Democrats are flipflopping for political gain. Democrats did vote for the war. Listen DEMOCRATS, a dose of humility and truth can be very powerful: Yes, I read the reports and listened to what I have now learned was nothing more than a Sales Pitch from Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Powell. I trusted my leaders on a gravely important subject. And yes, I have changed my mind, now...now that I find out my leaders, the president, the vice-president manipulated the evidence and, quite successfully, made me and others believe the lie. I believe I should have been able to trust my president. I have now learned that he and his staff blatantly misrepresented the facts and lied to the American people. You can call it flip flopping, but I call it facing the terrible truth.

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They Started This
Posted by: larryw06 on Dec 6, 2005 6:44 AM   
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We Americans did not start this war. Those people over there are the ones that crashed those planes into buildings, they started the war; not us. I don't like Bush, but I respect him because of the choices he made for our country. I have six cousins in the military and all of them and thier friends tell me the same thing, "Bush is not at fault here, the people who bombed us and the people who don't support us are the ones at fault". Don't try to make this into a, the Americans are picking on the little country thing, because its not. Our soilders are over there defending our country, and helping them fix thier lives. We did not this, but WE WILL FINISH IT!

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» RE: They Started This Posted by: Peter Mackrael