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Iraq Cannot Be Won

By Rep. John Murtha, AlterNet. Posted November 19, 2005.


A conservative senior House Democrat and Purple Heart-decorated Vietnam veteran describes the U.S. presence in Iraq as an 'occupation,' and calls for immediate troop withdrawal.

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Following is the transcript of a speech by conservative Democratic Representative John Murtha of Pennsylvania on November 17. Murtha is the ranking Democrat on the House Appropriation Committee's defense panel.

I just spoke to the Democratic Caucus and told them my feelings about the war. And I started out by saying the war in Iraq is not going as advertised. It's a flawed policy wrapped in illusion. The American public is way ahead of the members of Congress.

The United States and coalition troops have done all they can in Iraq. But it's time for a change in direction. Our military is suffering. The future of our country is at risk. We cannot continue on the present course. It is evident that continued military action in Iraq is not in the best interest of the United States of America, the Iraqi people or the Persian Gulf Region.

General Casey said, in a September 2005 hearing, the perception of occupation in Iraq is a major driving force behind the insurgency. General Abizaid said, on the same date, reducing the size of visibility of the coalition forces in Iraq is a part of our counterinsurgency strategy.

For two and a half years, I've been concerned about U.S. policy and the plan in Iraq. I've addressed my concerns with the administration and the Pentagon, and I've spoken out in public about my concerns. The main reason for going to war has been discredited.

A few days before the start of the war, I was in Kuwait.

The military drew a line -- a red line around Baghdad, and they said when U.S. forces cross that line, they will be attacked by the Iraqis with weapons of mass destruction. And I believed it, and they believed it. But the U.S. forces -- the commander said, they were prepared. They said they had well-trained forces with the appropriate protective gear.

Now, let me tell you we've spent more money on intelligence than any -- than all the countries in the world put together and more on intelligence than most countries' GDP. And when they said it's a world intelligence failure, it's a U.S. intelligence failure. It's a U.S. failure, and it's a failure in the way the intelligence was used.

I've been visiting our wounded troops at Bethesda and Walter Reed, as some of you know, almost every week since the beginning of the war. And what demoralizes them is not the criticism; what demoralizes them is going to war with not enough troops and equipment to make the transition to peace. The devastation caused by IEDs is what they're concerned about, being deployed to Iraq when their homes have been ravaged by hurricanes -- and you've seen these stories about some of the people's whose homes were destroyed, and they were deployed to Iraq after it -- being on their second or third deployment, leaving their families behind without a network of support.

The threat by terrorism is real, but we have other threats that cannot be ignored. We must prepare to face all these threats. The future of our military is at risk. Our military and their families are stretched thin. Many say the Army's broken. Some of our troops are on their third deployment. Recruitment is down even as the military's lowered its standards. They expect to take 20 percent Category 4, which is the lowest category, which they said they'd never take, but they've been forced to do that, to try to meet a reduced quota. Defense budgets are being cut. Personnel costs are skyrocketing, particularly in health care. Choices will have to be made, and we cannot allow promises we have made to our military families in terms of service benefits, in terms of their health care, to be negotiated away. Procurement programs that ensure our military dominance cannot be negotiated away.

We must be prepared. The war in Iraq has caused huge shortfalls in our bases at home. I've been to three bases in the United States, and each one of them were short of things they need to train the people going to Iraq. Much of our ground equipment is worn out. And I've told the COs you better get in the business of rehabilitating equipment because we're not going to be able to buy any new equipment because the money's not going to be there.

George Washington said to be prepared for war is one of the most effective means of preserving peace. We don't want somebody to miscalculate down the road. It takes us 18 years to put a weapon system in the arsenal. And I don't know what the threat is, nobody knows what the threat is, but we better make sure we have what's necessary to preserve our peace. We must rebuild our Army.

Our deficit is growing out of control. The director of the Congressional Budget Office recently admitted to being terrified about the deficit in the coming decades. In other words, where's the money going to come from for defense?

I voted against every tax cut -- every tax cut I voted against. My wife says, "You shouldn't say that." I believe that when we voted for these tax cuts, you can't have a war, you can't have a tragedy like we had, the hurricanes, and then not have a huge deficit, which is going to increase interest rates and could cause real problems. This is the first prolonged war we've ever fought with three years of tax cuts without full mobilization of American industry and without a draft. On the college campuses they always ask me about a draft: You're for a draft. I say yeah, there's only two of us voted for it, so you don't have to worry too much about it.

The burden of this war has not been shared equally. The military and their families are shouldering the burden. Our military has been fighting this war in Iraq for over two and a half years. Our military has accomplished its mission and done its duty.

Our military captured Saddam Hussein, captured or killed his closest associates. But the war continues to intensify. Deaths and injuries are growing, and over 2,079 in confirmed American deaths, over 15,500 have been seriously injured -- half of them returned to duty, and it's estimated over 50,000 will suffer from what I call battle fatigue. And there have been reports that at least 30,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed.

I just recently visited Anbar province in Iraq in order to assess the conditions on the ground. And last May we put in the emergency supplemental spending bill -- [the] Moran amendment -- which was accepted in conference, which required the secretary of Defense to submit a quarterly report about the -- and accurately measure the stability and security in Iraq. Now -- we've now received two reports. So I've just come back from Iraq, and I looked at the next report. I'm disturbed by the findings in the key indicator areas.

Oil production and energy production are below prewar level. You remember they said that was going to pay for the war, and it's proved to (be) below prewar level. Our reconstruction efforts have been crippled by security situations. Only $9 billion of $18 billion appropriated for reconstruction has been spent. And I said on the floor of the House, when they passed the $87 billion, the $18 billion was the most important part of it because you got to get people back to work, you got to get electricity, you got to get water! Unemployment is 60 percent. Now, they tell you in the United States it's less than that, so it may be 40 percent. But in Iraq, they told me it's 60 percent when I was there. Clean water is scarce, and they only spent $500 million of the $2.2 billion appropriated for water projects.

And most importantly -- this is the most important point -- incidents have increased from 150 to a week to over 700 in the last year. Instead of attacks going down over a time when addition of more troops -- when we had addition of more troops, attacks have grown dramatically. Since the revelation of Abu Ghraib, American casualties have doubled. You look at the timeline. You'll see one per day average before Abu Ghraib. After Abu Ghraib, you'll see two a day -- two killed per day because of the dramatic impact that Abu Ghraib had on what we were doing in [Iraq. And] the State Department reported in 2004, right before they quit putting the reports out, that -- they indicated a sharp increase in global terrorism.

I said over a year ago now, the military and the administration agrees now that Iraq cannot be won militarily.

I said two years ago, the key to progress in Iraq is Iraqitize, internationalize and energize.

Now, we have a packet for you where I sent a letter to the president in September, and I got an answer back from assistant secretary of Defense five months later. I believe the same today. They don't want input. They only want to criticize. They -- Bush One was the opposite; Bush One might not like the criticism and constructive suggestions, but he listened to what we had to say.

I believe that and I have concluded the presence of U.S. troops in Iraq is impeding this progress. Our troops have become the primary target of the insurgency. They are united against U.S. forces, and we have become a catalyst for violence. U.S. troops are the common enemy of the Sunnis, the Saddamists and the foreign jihadists. And let me tell you, they haven't captured any in this latest activity, so this idea that they're coming in from outside, we still think [they constitute] only seven percent [of the insurgency].

I believe with the U.S. troop redeployment the Iraqi security forces will be incentivized to take control. A poll recently conducted -- this is a British poll reported in The Washington Times -- over 80 percent of Iraqis are strongly opposed to the presence of coalition forces, and about 45 percent of Iraqi population believe attacks against American troops are justified. I believe we need to turn Iraq over to the Iraqis. I believe before the Iraqi elections, scheduled for mid-December, the Iraqi people and the emerging government must be put on notice. The United States will immediately redeploy -- immediately redeploy. No schedule which can be changed, nothing that's controlled by the Iraqis, this is an immediate redeployment of our American forces because they have become the target.

All of Iraq must know that Iraq is free -- free from a United States occupation, and I believe this will send a signal to the Sunnis to join the political process. My experience in a guerrilla war says that until you find out where they are, until the public is willing to tell you where the insurgent is, you're not going to win this war, and Vietnam was the same way. If you have an operation -- a military operation and you tell the Sunnis because the families are in jeopardy, they -- or you tell the Iraqis, then they are going to tell the insurgents, because they're worried about their families.

My plan calls for immediate redeployment of U.S. troops consistent with the safety of U.S. forces, to create a quick reaction force in the region, to create an over-the-horizon presence of Marines, and to diplomatically pursue security and stability in Iraq.

Now let me personalize this thing for you. I go out to the hospitals every week. One of my first visits, two young women. One was 22 or 23, had two children, lost her husband. One was 19. And they both went out to the hospitals to tell the people out there how happy they were -- or how happy they should be to be alive. In other words, they were reaching out because they felt their husbands had done their duty, but they wanted to tell them that they were so fortunate, even though they were wounded, to be alive.

I have a young fellow in my district who was blinded and he lost his foot. They did everything they could for him at Walter Reed, then they sent him home. His father was in jail. He had nobody at home. Imagine this. A young kid that age, 22, 23 years old, goes home to nobody. VA did everything they could do to help him. He was reaching out.

So they sent him -- to make sure that he was a blind, they sent him to Johns Hopkins. Johns Hopkins started sending bills. Then the collection agency started sending bills. Well, when I found out about it, you could imagine they stopped the collection agency and Walter Reed finally paid the bill. But imagine, a young person being blinded, without a foot, and he's getting bills from a collection agency.

I saw a young soldier who lost two legs and an arm, and his dad was pushing him around.

I go to the mental ward; you know what they say to me? They got battle fatigue. You know what they say? "We don't get nothing. We get nothing. We're just as bruised, just as injured as everybody else, but we don't even get a Purple Heart. We get nothing. We get shunted aside. We get looked at as if there's something wrong with us."

Saw a young woman from Notre Dame. Basketball player, right- handed, lost her right hand. You know what she's worried about? She's worried about her husband because he lost weight worrying about her. These are great people. These soldiers and people who are serving, they're marvelous people.

I saw a Seabee lying there with three children. His mother and his wife were there. He was paralyzed from the neck down. There were 18 of them killed in this one mortar attack. And they were all crying because they knew what it would be like in the future.

I saw a Marine rubbing his boy's hand. He was a Marine in Vietnam, and his son had just come back from Iraq. And he said he wanted his brother to come home. That's what the father said, because the kid couldn't speak. He was in a coma.

He kept rubbing his hand.

He didn't want to come home. I told him the Marine Corps would get him home.

I had one other kid, lost both his hands. Blinded. I was praising him, saying how proud we were of him and how much we appreciate his service to the country. "Anything I can do for you?" His mother said get me a -- "Get him a Purple Heart." I said, "What do you mean, get him a Purple Heart?"

He had been wounded in taking care of bomblets, these bomblets that they drop that they have to dismantle. He had been wounded and lost both his hands. The kid behind him was killed.

His mother said, "Because they're friendly bomblets, they wouldn't give him a Purple Heart."

I met with the commandant. I said, "If you don't give him a Purple Heart, I'll give him one of mine." And they gave him a Purple Heart.

Let me tell you something. We're charged -- Congress is charged with sending our sons and daughters into battle, and it's our responsibility, our obligation to speak out for them. That's why I'm speaking out.

Our military's done everything that has been asked of them. U.S. cannot accomplish anything further in Iraq militarily; it's time to bring the troops home.

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Murtha, My Dear
Posted by: Tom Degan on Nov 19, 2005 3:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Murtha, my dear
Though we spend our days in
Pure frustration please
You're the fresh breeze

Finally...FINALLY the democrats - or at the very least one of them - is starting to show some refreshing, long overdue courage (What makes the muscrat guard his musk? Courage!) Finally they're starting to wake up to the fact that for the second time in a generation THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS GOING TO LOSE A WAR! Sure they'll pull out of there and "claim" victory, but the facts on the ground will tell an entirely different story. For the second time in a generation the USA has been pushed into another unwinnable war by another half-witted Texan (what is it about Texas?) Finally the American people are awakening from the right-wing coma they've been sleeping under for the last twenty-five years.

Prediction: 2008 will be 1932 all over again. Way back then a "liberal" (BOO!) democrat, a man who lived just across the river from where I'm writing from, a betrayer of his class named Franklin D. Roosevelt was elected to the presidency and saved this country from the worst elements of corporate greed and stupidity. As the common knowledge has it, he saved capitalism by tempering it's excesses.

It'll happen again, folks. Count on it. Help is on the way. Did I hear anyone say, "President Feingold"??

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Murtha, My Dear Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Murtha, My Dear Posted by: xenacat
» RE: Murtha, My Dear Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: Murtha, My Dear Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: Murtha, My Dear Posted by: Realman
» RE: Murtha, My Dear Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: Murtha, My Dear Posted by: cyclone
» RE: Murtha, My Dear Posted by: deltadancer
» RE: Murtha, My Dear Posted by: ShaSpirit
» Thanks,ShaSpirit! Posted by: kww355
» RE: Murtha, My Dear Posted by: trace
» RE: Murtha, My Dear Posted by: Sparks56
"Our deficit is growing out of control; Our deficit is growing out of control;Our deficit is growing
Posted by: qrswave on Nov 19, 2005 3:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The director of the Congressional Budget Office recently admitted to being terrified about the deficit in the coming decades."

The war in Iraq is a catastrophe, no doubt. But, think about it. What's the engine that drives this catastrophe?

Our monetary system.

If warmongers didn't have this much money rolling out of OUR pockets and into THEIR coffers, then they would not be so politically powerful, and we would not be so politically weak and the US would not have gone to war.

And don't fool yourself, defense contractors are not the only folks getting BUSHloads of money. Bondholders of every persuasion collect BUSHloads of our tax money every day through interest.

If you've seen my posts before, then by now you might think 'what is it with this person? why this obsession about interest and the monetary system?'

Well, think about it. Up until August 31, the government had spent over $335 BILLION on INTEREST on US Treasury Bonds in 2005. That was only $100 BILLION less than they spent on the Department of Defense during the same period and almost $300 BILLION more than they spent on the nation's education.

Think about it and if you think that there's something wrong with that picture, then do something about it.

Murtha said what had to be said, but his words fall on deaf ears. As long as the warmongers wield the CASH, the rest of us will be forced to follow.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Collapse is practically imminent Posted by: pleaseplanttrees
» RE: Collapse is practically imminent Posted by: pleaseplanttrees
» Time-Out! Posted by: qrswave
» RE: Time-Out! Posted by: billfaster
» RE: "I beg to differ Posted by: cyclone
» RE: The Above is for Billfaster Posted by: billfaster
» RE: "I beg to differ Posted by: billfaster
A Sobering Commentary
Posted by: gerireig on Nov 19, 2005 4:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
John Murtha's essay should be on the front page of every newspaper in this country. The devastation caused by this venture is stunning. The media giants love stories about missing blond women, but avoid the war wounded like the plague. I'd like to see Bush and Cheney sentenced to five years of attending to the people they have maimed, and then sent to the Hague for war crimes.

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» RE: A Sobering Commentary Posted by: atamamata
the pentagon speaks
Posted by: menckenman on Nov 19, 2005 4:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The armed forces are a little worried about losing this war, badly. You know Murtha is tight with the pentagon. I'd say the generals are ready to quit.

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» I would agree Posted by: decembrist
Veterans are People Too.
Posted by: david.model@senecac.on.ca on Nov 19, 2005 5:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a saying that the quality of a society is judged on the basis of how the poorest and weakest are treated. The Bush Government fails this test miserably. If you extent this measurement to the military, the Bushites aren't even on the radar screen.

When Bush sends troops to war, they are sacrificing their home life and leaving their loved ones behind possibly never to be seen again. They are subjected to horrible conditions including constant fear and watching your buddies being blown up. They are putting their lives and physical and mental health at risk.

The very least they are enititled to is the best possible care if they are wounded or mentally traumatized and to be honored if the give their lives.

Instead, they are treated like dirt. Once they have performed their service for their country, they are discarded like old shoes. What does this say about the Bush governmnet? It says that they are callous, uncaring, inhumane and cruel. Aba Graib is far more revealing than how prisoners were treated.

Author of "Lying for Empire: How to Commit War Crimes with a Straight Face."

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» RE: Veterans are People Too. Posted by: ShaSpirit
» RE: Veterans are People Too. Posted by: nature3829
ECLECTICIST, S. JIM RODRIGUEZ
Posted by: SJR505 on Nov 19, 2005 6:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
U.S. REPRESENTATIVE MURTHA spoke the truth about our American troops in the field of war...Basically he said ; "I give a damn about our American G.I" s..." But his most pointed, and decisive exclamation was..." I like those guys that got five(5) military exemptions , ...never put on a uniforn..., and sent our troops to war..."

In my opinion, Bush 43 , aka-"Silver Foot" , Dick "The Slick" Cheney, the "Repugnicans", and the "Cowardcracts" have a lot to answer to we the American families , and especially, "
El Senor..." As a Viet-Nam veteran with two "Medal Of Honor" recipient family members support and agree with Rep Murtah, today and until the ends of the earth..."Silver Foot and Slick " should always remember :

"Today, there is an inescapable duty to make ourselves the neighbor of every individual, without exception, and to take positive steps to help a neighbor whom we encounter, whether that neighbor be an elderly person, abandoned by everyone, a foreign worker who suffers the injustice of being despised, a refugee, an illegitimate child wrongly suffering for a sin of which the child is innocent, or a starving human being who awakens our conscience by calling to mind the words of Christ: 'As long as you did it for one of these, the least of my brethren, you did it for me' (Matthew 25:40)"

S...JIM...RODRIGUEZ+++EL ECLECTICIST+++
3333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333

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» very beautiful post Posted by: deborama
The Bush Deficit
Posted by: Rod in 83706 on Nov 19, 2005 7:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Murtha and the head of the CBO are right to be worried about the Bush deficit. It is as big or a bigger problem than the occupation of Iraq. We should all be worried about the deficit. It is the biggest problem we face.

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» Absolutely! Posted by: qrswave
» RE: Absolutely! Posted by: ShaSpirit
» RE: Absolutely! Posted by: pepaw
» RE: Absolutely! Posted by: LeonDion
Will someone please wake up!
Posted by: magistre on Nov 19, 2005 8:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
George W. Bush & Company have one unwavering TRUE goal in mind,always: "DESTROY THE UNITED WTATES OF AMERICA!!!!!"

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Will someone please wake up!
Posted by: magistre on Nov 19, 2005 8:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
George W. Bush & Company have one unwavering TRUE goal in mind,always: "DESTROY THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!!!"

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War on Iraq--Murtha's Speech
Posted by: archienc on Nov 19, 2005 9:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems that history does indeed repeat itself. What did we learn from our "war" with Viet Nam? We tried to defeat a nation with a 1000 year history. Now, we try to defeat Iraq with the same type of history. The insurgents are NOT going o give up and neither will their children and grandchildren. WHEN will our elected politicians realize that we CANNOT and MUST NOT try to colonize the world? HOW can we possibly get Bush out of office before 4,000 or 10,000 more Americans die or are mamed and will live in the Vets Hospitals? In my opinion, the man will go down in history as the worst president we have ever had--right next to LBJ!

People asked him over and over just HOW he planned to "win the peace" and then get out of Iraq. He NEVER even tried to answer that question. The man is not itelligent. Sure, he graduated from Yale with a "C" average. Would you allow a person with a "C" average to perform open-heart surgey on you or brain surgey? The guy just is not very smart. Let's keep on urging congress and senate to get our kids home and safe from Bush's Iraq-Nam.

I have no idea who I would vote for to become our next president. Hillary? I don't think so. We HAVE to somehow get someone in office who will be totally honest with the American people and the world. In this day and age of instant communication, a person who is the leader of the free world just HAS to be honest because it is virtually impossible NOT to be with all of the technology that we have to seek the truth.

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The Govt always looks for LOOONG Conflicts
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Nov 19, 2005 9:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Johnson was told back in the early 60's by the President of S.Vietnam 'This is Asia, we will fight for 25 years if we have to, we been fighting that long already." The same is true of the Persian Gulf. They've been fighting for a thousand years and they are'nt exactly showing sign of slowing down. World Govts see this as a great population controler and economic stimulus program,and we're in for a long ride. Unless of course.we stop this insanity now. Start with a populace act of civil disobedience. 12/01/05 call in sick to work,school,buses,taxis and trains. If they want another 25 year war,let's give them a 25 week strike to think about it.

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Leeman asks: Iraq, when/why
Posted by: leeman on Nov 19, 2005 9:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Republicans have presented Congress with a false choice--"cut and run", or "stay the course". Rather, the orderly, phased withdrawal of US troops should begin now. A date certain does not have to be publicized at this point, but the evacuation from this pointless quagmire with its open-ended funding and weekly death toll must be started. Lives and money are being squandered so that the Bush Administration and its arm-chair generals can save face. Enough.

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History
Posted by: daro on Nov 19, 2005 12:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And this is just the way the Roman Empire ended, the most powerful force the world had seen at that point. Unable to afford its own military, ethically and morally bancrupt it left the world with - the Italians!
But at least they did keep it together for 400 years - about twice the time the once-great U.S.A. has managed. You are now so far down the tube you are out of sight and only a rather nasty smell remains.

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My New Hero
Posted by: Mary Eman on Nov 19, 2005 3:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm in love with John Murtha! Finally, somebody has the stones to speak out and tell the truth about this disastrous obscenity of a war. Thank you, Congressman Murtha, you are my new hero!

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Beentheredonethat
Posted by: Beentheredonethat on Nov 19, 2005 5:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks for the breeze of fresh air that is coming from western Pennsylvania, John Murtha. As someone who was in the Seabees and served with the Marines in Vietnam, I am proud that it was a Marine and a Vietnam Vet who lowered the boom on those draft dodgers in the West Wing. Don't let these bums "Swift Boat" this brave Marine either.

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kizsoo
Posted by: kizsoo on Nov 19, 2005 7:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WE WILL STAY. WE MUST WIN

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» RE: kizsoo Posted by: kizsoo
» The Vote isn't What Matters Posted by: decembrist
» RE: kizsoo Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: kizsoo Posted by: ShaSpirit
» RE: kizsoo Posted by: cindi
The Burning Bush
Posted by: Artkansas on Nov 20, 2005 10:17 AM   
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I'm so glad I didn't have to count on government intelligence when I decided that Bush's proposal to invade Iraq was stupid and baseless. I guess I had better information.

My bits of info were,

Iraq was not involved in 9/11.

Iraq was not a moslem fundamentalist hotspot, largely due to Hussein.

We had spent a year in Afghanistan on a huge search and destroy mission against the perpetrators of 9/11 without success. It was time for a success.

Bush's father had not invaded Iraq, so invading it and conquering it might seem like an Oedipal dream of the boy exceeding his father.

The worst of Hussein's abuses were done at a time when America was aiding and abetting him.

Weapons inspectors were finding no evidence of WMDs.

Iraq had been in a 10 year war with Iran, which likely meant that he had spent his weaponry to a large degree.

The Oil for Food had limited his ability to raise money, and thus weapons.

Hussein had not used his Air Force to any significant extent in the Gulf War. That likely meant that he had little capability.

Reports of his having ICBM's and nuclear capability in the face of this paucity of conventional weaponry sounded like a lie.

He was a murdering scoundrel who should be deposed by his own people.

Invading a country in such a manner sets precedent for other countries who do not like our politics to invade and take over us. Should China invade us for not being communist?

The case seemed clear to me. For this I think that Bush should take full blame and will have to face the fires of Hell for the thousands of people he has had tortured and cold-bloodedly murdered.

Among the humans, he should be put up in front of an international tribunal for his war crimes. May God have mercy on his soul.

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» RE: The Burning Bush Posted by: qrswave
» Excellent post! Posted by: LeonDion
No they don't want to destroy us.
Posted by: Artkansas on Nov 20, 2005 10:28 AM   
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If you are a parasite, it behooves you to keep the host alive enough that you can continue to feed off it as long as possible.

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» I couldn't agree more... Posted by: qrswave
Are we cowards?
Posted by: aameriowa on Nov 20, 2005 12:26 PM   
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On the house floor, Rep. Jean schmidt (R-OH) said to Murtha: "We are not cowards" implying that war opponents are just that. These brave "warriors" obviously can not keep their base mobilized except by calling people unpatriotic, cowards, sissies. yaa we do not cut and run. We kill kill kill.
And to this people, Iraqi lives do not count. tens of thousands dead. The "new" democratic government tortures people. What are we doing there? For what noble purpose do we kill and get killed?

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How has America come to love lies and hate truth?
Posted by: Sojourner on Nov 20, 2005 1:11 PM   
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Is there any better indicator of our utter degradation and corruption than that we, and especially our leadership, want to believe lies and hide from the truth?

Isn't that what goes on in a dictatorship? Isn't that the first criticism we make of our enemies? Their leadership is lying?

Doesn't our press take great delight in pointing out the huge gap between what dictators elsewhere say and what they do? Why can't we see it when it is happening to us?

Do we really believe that we are different from everyone else? That we cannot be made fools of? That we cannot be manipulated by our self-serving leaders?

Where might we have gotten such perfection and innocence that our leaders can not only rise above but be free of the same deadly sins that leadership has always been tempted by?

What fools we are, if we believe any such preposterous pomposity..

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War in Iraq
Posted by: lsalih on Nov 20, 2005 4:04 PM   
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I hope this war will end soon. I am truly having hard time updating my website as I try to focus on the positive side of the war. I try to concentrate on the reconstruction efforts instead of updating it the recent bombings. Pulling the troops out would be a mistake and it will cause civil war and it will be a losing war for the United States. Dividing Iraq into three federal states would be the ideal solution. The Kurds are enjoying their freedom and are busy with reconstruction and redevelopment of their region. The Kurds could be used a model for the rest of Iraq.

Lawk Salih
www.lawksalih.com

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» RE: War in Iraq Posted by: ShaSpirit
» RE: War in Iraq Posted by: bonapartist
lissy
Posted by: lissy on Nov 20, 2005 5:03 PM   
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Before the corporate war machine decides to invade another country, we should heed the advice of Major General Smedley Butler, USMC., who said "War is a racket..." http://www.lookingglassnews.org/viewcommentary.php?storyid=29

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Hmmm
Posted by: bonapartist on Nov 20, 2005 10:58 PM   
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As far as I can say Rep. Murtha is first and foremost angry that war wasn't conducted properly. If it was, or if Iraqi guerillas gracefully crawled into the woods and died there, he probably would have very few objections. Again, it is not so much anger over entering the war on false pretenses but the anger over losing that war. I do not think it is wise to read too much into it, if nothing else it is too little too late. Is it a step int he right direction? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Mr. Bush is a product of the development of US political system and, if the rest of the world doesn't want Bush III or Bush IV in power at some time in the future, the most prudent course of action would be to keep quiet. Why? Mr. Bush seems to be very apt in ruining US and by the time he is done the danger of another like him coming to power will be much smaller then today. If for no other reason then that US will be a lot weaker then they are now.

As a European all I can say regarding President Bush is:

“Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.” – Napoleon Bonaparte

PS

Before I get replies about rioting France (following the argument “you suck more then us”) I would like to point out that it is an internal French problem and it doesn’t impact the world, unlike American pseudo – imperialism.

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» RE: Hmmm Posted by: bsbremmer
Kim Jung II
Posted by: NamVeT on Nov 21, 2005 7:56 AM   
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ain't got shit on georgie halibush. I can't believe that we are still in this mess. bushie the "C' average frat boy and the rest of his draft dodging criminal pals should be tried and then hung in the public square. At the rate we are going, martial law is just arouond the corner. Some other "national disaster" will be popping up any time now. We will soon have to call georgie "the fucking idiot moron" halibush our Dear Leader!

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Thank you...
Posted by: Ricki on Nov 21, 2005 7:58 AM   
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... Rep. Murtha for speaking the truth. I hope that the rest of the Dems grow some spine.

An even bigger thank you for visiting the wounded, which most of our politicians, including the president , have chosen to ignore.

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No way out
Posted by: liberazi on Nov 22, 2005 7:12 AM   
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The reason that the invasion of Iraq was such a bad idea is because once you go in, you can never get out. I hope I am wrong here, but I doubt it. When we try to get out, we will find that our addiction to oil holds us there. If we cannot end our economic dependence on the oil in the Middle East and Caspian regions, we will be there until our ruin, after which we will be finally forced out.

This is what we have accomplished: We took the oil fields from Saddam and stopped his murdering and torturing of the Iraqi people. Now we control the oil fields and are the ones murdering and torturing the Iraqi people. Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

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regarding collapse is practically certain
Posted by: pleaseplanttrees on Nov 22, 2005 8:03 AM   
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What needs to be done but do not hold your breath is:
1. Put an immediate one time debt tax on all personal, and corporate assets of more one million dollars on the people and companies directly responsible for the debt in the first place.
2. Close all tax offshore shelters of corporations and impose back taxes on them for evasion.
3. Anyone registered republican and voted for ReaGAN AND THE TWO BUSH'S SHOULD IMMEDIATELY be strapped in a bed in a insane asylum for the rest of their natural lives and stripped of all their assets rights and freedoms.
4. Raise capital gains investment taxes to 50% for a period of five years.
5. All republicans and democrats should immediately resign and be restrained in straps in an insane asylum for willfully aiding, abbetting, allowing the destruction of the planet through massively irresopnsible antisocial and short sighted one sided economic policies.
6. Disolve our government and put and end to capitalism forever and start over with a real democratic government with real representation. New government run only by Philosophers with a world conscience with massive ethical standards that cannot be watered down.
7. Bring every troop all over the world home immediately dissolve every base around the world in every country. Sign and deliver apologies for the massive corupption and destruction of the world and its inhabitants. Sign reparation treaties to every country that we have willfully exploited and destroyed.
8. Sign massive treaties to eliminate all but a few nucleaR weapons used only as deterant.
9. Organize new milatARY of only special forces trained only in eliminating all nuclear weapons threats around the world.
10. Dissolve the CIA and merge with new defense department with intellegence only used to eliminate nuclear and chemical weapons.
11. Begin massive housing and infrastructure progect to build and design self-sustaining eviromentally friendly energy efficient communities all around the country that feed and clothe themselves and start new economy where each community specializes in some product be it growing food or making clothing or doing research then have exchanges of each to other communities so they are interdependent on each others growth and over all health.
12. Put an immediate end to all coal burning and nuclear power.
13. Convert every car in this country to energy efficient hybrid engines.

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not quite
Posted by: liberazi on Nov 22, 2005 9:11 AM   
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Their goal is to destroy all remaining structures of The New Deal and The Great Society which were put in place by Democrats Roosevelt, Kennedy and Johnson. This includes destroying social security, civil rights, and freedom of information and the people's right to know what the government is doing. They still have not forgiven Roosevelt for forcing Churchill to accept the end of imperialism before the USA would enter WWII.

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I don't care about US troops
Posted by: oldsmobile on Nov 23, 2005 2:11 AM   
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After reading some comments from soldiers and reading this story of a US assault near the Syrian border, I don't feel at all sorry for US troops.

I would not appreaceate anyone doing something like that to my home town and then considering it the right thing to do!

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» Yes, but no. Posted by: oldsmobile_
administrador
Posted by: pjohnq on Oct 3, 2006 6:03 AM   
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lexikon
Posted by: pjohnq on Oct 3, 2006 6:04 AM   
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Super Sold
Posted by: Vill on Oct 19, 2006 9:29 AM   
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» Education...Demo Posted by: Vill
GL
Posted by: Vill on Oct 27, 2006 3:11 AM   
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Cool site. Thanks:-) look my site too

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