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Some Kind of 'Manly'

By Molly Ivins, AlterNet. Posted November 11, 2005.


If you are dead to all sense of morality, let us still reason on the famous common ground of practicality. Torture. Does. Not. Work.
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I can't get over this feeling of unreality, that I am actually sitting here writing about our country having a gulag of secret prisons in which it tortures people.

I have loved America all my life, even though I have often disagreed with the government. But this seems to me so preposterous, so monstrous. My mind is a little bent and my heart is a little broken this morning.

Maybe I should try to get a grip -- after all, it's just this one administration that I had more cause than most to realize was full of inadequate people going in. And even at that, it seems to be mostly Vice President Cheney. And after all, we were badly frightened by 9-11, which was a horrible event. "Only" nine senators voted against the prohibition of "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment of persons under custody or control the United States."

Nine out of 100. Should we be proud? Should we cry?

"We do not torture," said our pitifully inarticulate president, straining through emphasis and repetition to erase the obvious.

A string of prisons in Eastern Europe in which suspects are held and tortured indefinitely, without trial, without lawyers, without the right to confront their accusers, without knowing the evidence or the charges against them, if any. Forever. It's "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich." Another secret prison in the midst of a military camp on an island run by an infamous dictator. Prisoner without a name, cell without a number.

Who are we? What have we become? The shining city on a hill, the beacon and bastion of refuge and freedom, a country born amidst the most magnificent ideals of freedom and justice, the greatest political heritage ever given to any people anywhere.

I am baffled by these "arguments:" But we're talking about really awful people, cries the harassed press secretary. People like X and Y and Z (after a time, one forgets all the names of the No. 2's after bin Laden we have captured). The SS and the Gestapo and the KVD weren't all that nice, either.

Then I hear the familiar tinniness of the fake machismo I know so well from George W. Bush and all the other frat boys who never went to Vietnam and never got over the guilt.

"Sometimes you gotta play rough," said Dick Cheney. No shit, Dick? Now why don't you tell that to John McCain?

I have known George W. Bush since we were both in high school -- we have dozens of mutual friends. I have written two books about him and so have interviewed many dozens more who know him well in one way or another. Spare me the tough talk. He didn't play football -- he was a cheerleader.

"He is really competitive," said one friend. "You wouldn't believe how tough he is on a tennis court!" Just cut the macho crap -- I don't want to hear it.

If you are dead to all sense of morality (please let me not go off on the stinking sanctimony of this crowd), let us still reason together on the famous American common ground of practicality. Torture. Does. Not. Work.

Torture does not work. Ask the United States military. Ask the Israelis.

There seems to be some fantastic scenario floating around -- if Osama bin Laden had an atomic bomb hidden in a locker at Grand Central Station, and it was due to go off in 12 hours, and we had him in prison … I seem to have missed some important television program on this theme. I am told it was fiction, but it must have been really scary -- it certainly seems to have unbalanced the minds of some of our fellow citizens.

Torture does not work. It is not productive. It does not yield important, timely information. That is in the movies. This is reality. I grew up with all this pathetic Texas tough: Everybody here knows you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs; and this ain't beanbag; and I'll knock your jaw so far back, you'll scratch your throat with your front teeth; and I'm gonna cloud up and rain all over you; and I'm gonna open me a can of whup-ass …

And that'll show 'em, won't it? Take some miserable human being alone and helpless in a cell, completely under your control, and torture him. Boy, that is some kind of manly, ain't it?

"The CIA is holding an unknown number of prisoners in secret detention centers abroad. In violation of the Geneva Conventions, it has refused to register those detainees with the International Red Cross or to allow visits by its inspectors. Its prisoners have 'disappeared,' like the victims of some dictatorships." -- The Washington Post.

Why did we bother to beat the Soviet Union if we were just going to become it? Shame. Shame. Shame.

Digg!

Molly Ivins writes about politics, Texas and other bizarre happenings.

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We do not torture
Posted by: Artkansas on Nov 11, 2005 2:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think that will become GWB's quote, to hang next to Nixon's "I am not a crook."

It is so patently a lie. Only a psychopath could have said it with the conviction that Bush has.

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» RE: We do not torture Posted by: Edward George
» RE: We do not torture Posted by: nolibertynosafety
» RE: We do not torture Posted by: Fade
"We Do Not Torture"
Posted by: FedUp on Nov 11, 2005 2:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At the end of the day, Molly, we're all to blame for our dire straits.
We don't vote. We meekly submit to religious hocus-pocus. We sell our principles for material gain.
The list is endless.
Look at the cinematographic history of this country to get a clue about how we feel about other cultures.
What happened to all the "Peace & Love" of the sixties and seventies? It was traded for an SUV and Nikes.
We're all Doctor Frankenstein.

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» RE: "We Do Not Torture" Posted by: Ranger
» RE: "We Do Not Torture" Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: "We Do Not Torture" Posted by: Gma1
» RE: "We Do Not Torture" Posted by: Lincoln fan
» We're all to blame... Posted by: BillC
» RE: "We Do Not Torture" Posted by: BlueAlaska
dubya doesn't have the first clue...
Posted by: sgtmartin1 on Nov 11, 2005 3:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
what tough is all about. George Bush learned early that messes were for others to clean up. Family influence got him into the National Guard and out of failed businesses. He came to office with little more on his resume than being saved and sober and possessed a world-view based on bumper stickers.

Bush is pathologically incapable of accepting reality and substitutes certitude for sensible mid-course adjustment. He’s so arrogant that he’s alienated virtually all of the 95 percent of this planet’s inhabitants that don’t reside in the good old USA–to say nothing of half of those that do.

To call Iraq a quagmire does a great disservice to swamps. Bush and his neocon Coalition of the Shilling sold us a pig in a poke. There were no weapons or 9-11 connections and it wasn’t for free and 2,061 Americans died for a cause that evolves every time the previous lie is discredited. And that stunt on the aircraft carrier was straight out of Dr. Strangelove.

In a fair and balanced world...we'd see this come true: Bush Recalled to National Guard

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This civilization is rotten to the core...
Posted by: SevenStarHand on Nov 11, 2005 3:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most people have no idea that the common-denominator math of all the world's currencies forms an endless loop that generates debt faster than we can ever generate the value to pay for it. Those who scoff at this analysis have simply failed to do the math. Consequently, this civilization is verifiably based on purposeful and institutionalized deception, coercion, and exploitation. The time is long overdue to change the human equation and end the root causes of most injustice and suffering.

When the full scope of human civilization is analyzed, it becomes abundantly clear that its pillars are money, religion, and politics. Of the three, money is by far the most important because politics and religion rely on it for existence. All three are great deceptions (strong lies) secretly managed by the Vatican and its secret society cohorts. This fact has been expertly hidden over the last two centuries. Money, religion and politics are Machiavellian deceptions whose common purpose is mass exploitation. Very few people understand that all three are tightly synchronized and interdependent logic traps. Consequently, to continue trying to win at such long-term and highly developed shell (and shill) games is absolute folly. Until we turn away from such obvious delusions, humanity’s great struggles and suffering will never end.

There is no true freedom nor freewill in the presence of such pervasive and institutionalized deception and exploitation. People have struggled for millennia trying to form working societies based on these three great follies. Those efforts always eventually fail because the inherent injustice and deception at the root of these concepts always leads to chaos and destruction. How long must it take before verifiable wisdom is finally valued over such long-term and self-evident folly? How much longer will it take for good people to grow tired of such obvious lies and turn away from deceptive leaders and their deceptions?

http://www.geocities.com/sevenstarhand/money.html

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» RE: Yeah, something sure stinks here Posted by: montana freeman
» RE: Montana freeman Posted by: montana freeman
Wake up
Posted by: Ingarose on Nov 11, 2005 4:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When are we going to wake up? The MSM is still busy trying to bring Bushes poll numbers up. They hardly ever discuss serious matters.

Molly, you are right. This is awful. I grew up under Hitler and came to the USA in 1962. Boy, was I proud to be an American after 5 years.

Now the Land of the Free has become the land of the torturers. What has happened, can you please tell me?

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» RE: Wake up :Ingarose Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Wake up Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: Wake up Posted by: Ingarose
If this bothers you, read about the real reason for 9/11
Posted by: ShaSpirit on Nov 11, 2005 4:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A couple of weeks ago I used a link from this site to view the theories about how the Twin Towers really came down. I knew in my mind this was true when it happen, but how could I possibly be right? Bush had not been president for that long. It was too terrible to even contemplate and my mind did not seem to be able to wrap itself about these horrible ideas.

Then I found a document which once again compelled me to start thinking about this horrible idea again. The proof was in this document which was signed in 1997 by nearly all of the neocons who would end up in the new Bush administration before 9/11. I think it was Cheney who said it would take an action like Pearl Harbor to make the American people go to war and invade Iraq. The missing piece without all the stacks of evidence that has been gathered by many people to prove 9/11 was that event the neocons prayed for.

It is a very small step from there to how the whole 9/11 investigation was handled and what happen to the evidence. This made me a lot sicker than the torturing Cheney espouses. I was so enraged that I shook all over and my eyes could not longer read.

There has been stories written over time about the movers and shakers behind all the world's politics for 100s of years. They sold all the things that were made war more deadly. They decided which nation won and which nations would lose. Some of the Libertarian pamphlets go into this in more detail. I had read books about this cabal by certain fictional authors over the years. But the truth behind the stories rings thru. China is about to be number one and we are going to become more like what we are seeing today, a failed nation run by big money.

This administration is torturing all of us all mentally and emotionally, little by little. We are selling our rights, our beliefs, our jobs and our families' futures just to feel safe in our homes. They did this in Germany and in Russia because people wanted to feel safe. Like cattle in a killing pen, we just stand around and watching their herd mates being killied without being able to do anything, except mooing anxiously with restless movement pushing each other around trying to be safer and not to see their death coming closer.

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» montana freeman Posted by: montana freeman
bikey
Posted by: bikey on Nov 12, 2005 4:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, it's all very hard to believe. But beyond the macho, beyond the utility argument, is law, national law (admittedly fading fast) and international law. We may be outlaws, but we are still a nation, and hard as it is to believe, we are bound not only by the Torture Convention, the Geneva Conventions, and the concept of jus cogens (norms from which there is no derogation). So, then, how do we 'support the troops' in any way, when we hear their own words, their own perceptions? What kind of civilization do we have if they had to be told chapter and verse not to torture, not to use napalm, not to shoot bound captives? What they are doing is as much a war crime as what their higher ups are doing (one difference being the higher ups are also guilty of crimes against peace, aka criminal aggression and crimes against humanity). Remember Nuremberg? Just following orders is no longer an option. It hasn't been for over fifty years. Would we sympathize with Germans who supported Nazi troops, would we 'understand' that they had no option? Not very likely. This kind of tribalism is what got us into this mess in the first place. The brave soldiers are the ones who say no, who refuse to 'just follow orders'. The ones we see firing, from the ground, from the air, with their napalm and other banned weapons, killing men, women and children, leaving chemicals and depleted uranium to kill future generations - these are not troops to support, these are war criminals.

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» Barbara Posted by: Barbara
» RE: Barbara Posted by: Gma1
» RE: bikey Posted by: badkitty
agitator church and state
Posted by: eileenflmng on Nov 12, 2005 4:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Molly wrote:"Torture does not work....Ask the Israelis."

Ask the Israelis what?

The Israeli government is master at psychological torture and arrests and detentions without cause.

20 years ago Morcechai Vanunu the whistlebower of Israel's WMD program was kidnapped in Rome, drugged, bound, gagged by the Mossad and flung onto an Israeli cargo ship heading home.

Vanunu endured a closed door trial, 18 years in Ashkelon; 11 1/2 in solitary subjected to intense psychological torture and while 'freed' 2 yrs ago remains under house arrest in Jerusalem.

International Inspectors have NEVER inspected Israel's WMD program.

Today there are children in jail for NON-Violently protesting The Wall in Billin.

Over 100 Billion USA tax dollars have gone to support the Israeli govt. since 1948 and as much in military equiptment.

read more on WAWA:
www.wearewideawake.org

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Dubya playing soldier
Posted by: xenacat on Nov 12, 2005 6:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The faux machoism of Dubya and his crowd is absolutely revolting. As Molly so rightly points out, this ex-cheerleading - and active Vietnam service dodging - trust fund brat is pathetic. The people around him are just as pathetic and I'm deeply ashamed for the folks who buy/bought into the lie. Our current social obession with "manliness" and supposed lack thereof has brought us to the point where we now have overage teenage boys posing as leaders of the United States. They are trying to prove they make the masculine grade by using torture. "Lookit me, girlie man, I got balls! So what are you gonna do about it?!" Talk about completely preverting the meaning of manly.....

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» RE: Dubya playing soldier Posted by: Edward George
"We've Been Here Before –– Dammit!"
Posted by: monkeywrench on Nov 12, 2005 7:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do not believe that the cretins in the Bush administration (including the Cretin-In Chief) have people tortured solely as a method of extracting information. Like Molly, I believe that these amoral creatures are compensating for cowardice at the core of their beings, and for all the little injustices they suffered in their collective past: the bullies on the playground, overbearing parents, last picked at kickball, etc., etc. (don't forget, little Georgie liked to stick firecrackers in the mouths of frogs, and used to shoot his defenseless little brother at close range with a b-b gun –– yeah, some "tough guy". . .).

I cannot speak about the Stalins and Pol Pots of the world, but the behavior and psychological underpinnings of Bush and his Merry Band of Torturers strongly reminds me of another wimp who went drunk with power: that pathetic little house painter in 1930's Germany –– and we all know how THAT turned out.

The burning of the Reichstag, the toppling of the World Trade Center: the justification doesn't matter; because the result is always the same.

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We Have Met The Enemy And It Is US
Posted by: harpy on Nov 12, 2005 8:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have become all that we have supposedly been fighting against all these years. We now have no "moral" high ground when our so-called leaders rant and rave against dictators who torture, commit genocide, and deny basic human rights. We have let these fanatics take over and deny trials, and what we did consider basic human rights. Most of our "leaders" are chickenhawks who personally never faced anything more threatening than a tennis game and would cut and run if they were put in our soldiers' place. It's time for impeachment!

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"We do not torture!"
Posted by: AgFoxx on Nov 12, 2005 8:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a sick perverse joke from a smirking mouth.
My wife (who had just returned from an 8 day trip to Saipan, and hadn't been watching any "corporate news") and I somehow found ourselves watching Bush doing his Veteran's Day speech (notice how he loves too have a military audience), she turns to me and says, "So my love, as a decorated combat veteran what do you think?" I couldn't answer her, the selected president is out of control. I look at him and my stomach roils, and my blood pressure soars.
Finally, "you know we have just got to keep digging into this administration, and shovel the shit out, clean up the barn, and get our country back." Then I started to cry, tough at 59!

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» RE: "We do not torture!" Posted by: JMaddox
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree
Posted by: harpy on Nov 12, 2005 8:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What else can we expect from a man whose grandparents made a great deal of the fortune that has propped up these pathetic criminals? George Bush's grandfathers actively financed and supported the Nazi regime of Adolph Hitler and had enough power at the end of his regime to hang on to most of their dirty profits. There is lots of information on this heritage and it's amazing that this was not reported by anybody during the elections of these criminals. One place to look is http://www.emperors-clothes.com/articles/randy/swas5a.htm

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The tragedy is that torture DOES work
Posted by: madtom on Nov 12, 2005 9:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm so sorry about this, Molly, but you're wrong.

Torture may not get valid intel, but so what?

What do these liars want with the truth anyway, except to bury it?

Torture helps to recruit, organize and polarize the worst elements on both sides, and even creates torturers out of ordinary young men and women.

This guarantees our leaders an endless supply of loyal order-followers and fuels their endless conflict. We should be worried about what happens when the torturers come home.

Studies from the academic (Zimbardo) to the real world (South American death squads) have shown how easy it is to turn ordinary people into torturers who are unquestioningly loyal to their own units, and to the chain of command.

This is what our leaders want, and what they're producing.

Torture works just fine for them.

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Guantanamofast
Posted by: braamer on Nov 12, 2005 10:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fast to End the Plight of Guantanamo Detainees

In 2001, Vice-President Dick Cheney, in an interview on “Meet the Press,” said that the government might have to go to “the dark side” in handling terrorist suspects, adding, “It’s going to be vital for us to use any means at our disposal.”
A Deadly Interrogation, Can the C.I.A. legally kill a prisoner? by Jane Mayer

The Joliet, IL. area group Potluck Democracy: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/potluckdemocracy/
is firing up a campaign for foreign policy integrity and against torture that specifically targets the detainees’ plight at Guantanamo Bay. The Bush Administration’s illegal policy of detention without trial, accusation or time limitations, has resulted in such dire conditions for detainees at Guantanamo Bay that they have chosen to starve themselves rather than endure any longer those inhumane conditions.
In order to shed light on this dark side of the administration’s policy, a fast will be undertaken for three days, fulfilling the US military definition of a hunger strike.This symbolic action will be used to define our commitment to the basic rights to which all humans are entitled: life, liberty, and equality before the law.
The fast will begin on Thursday evening, November 10th, ending on Sunday evening, the 13th. Individuals can participate or teams can be formed to divide the three days among the team members. It will be important to document the names of the participants so to notify the media and our Local, State and Federal representatives. A list of participants will be drawn up for distribution. Include your name, area and any pertinent affiliations. If you want to join this action, either as an individual or as a team member, please contact:
Robt. Braam
Manhattan, IL.
braamer@krausonline.com

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Cheerleader
Posted by: Skipper on Nov 12, 2005 12:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Molly, he's still just a cheerleader.

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Molly is right
Posted by: Mary Eman on Nov 12, 2005 12:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You are right, Molly, torture doen't work. I am ashamed of my government.

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Believe?
Posted by: SanFranDuke on Nov 12, 2005 6:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've come to the conclusion that I can't believe a word from either the Administration or the Majority of the Congress. Yes, the American people got the government they voted for.

The real question is when will any other country believe our government again?

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» RE: Believe? Posted by: Lincoln fan
A correction
Posted by: SFRosalyne on Nov 13, 2005 1:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One minor correction Molly dear, there was no KVD in the Soviet Union - its official abbreviation was NKVD from the Russian 'Narodnii Komissariat Vutrennikh Del' - the People's Komissariat for Internal Affairs. :o) (Yah, I'm a writer and historian with an editor's eye.)

However, there is NOTHING wrong with the onus of the story - that American totalitarians are doing everything to consolidate their wealth and power by any means necessary - no matter how disgusting or treasonous they are.

I'm sorry, there is not enough sugar on this entire planet that can sweeten the taste of the gigatons of neo-Fascist GOP (Genocide-Oppression-Profiteering) B.S. enough for a true American to blithely accept - much less find find tolerable the sick, perverse morals of these traitors to the Constitution.

I will love to see the day when these traitors and war criminals get their sorry asses frog-marched into The Hague to face war crimes charges. My only desire is that the World Court does not kill them - civilized humans are above judicial killing. A more fitting punishment is what they themselves fear the most and have inflicted on their own fellow citizen - fallow impoverishment and isolation.

They should never be permitted to have access to money or power - it is abundantly clear these people have abused their power. Money should be rationed to them like they did with America's poor with welfare and food-stamp cuts - never mind the rape of school budgets, the shredding of the social safety net, union-busting or outsourcing jobs to depress American wages.

They do not deserve the wonderful promise of America - only our wrath.

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Why torture?
Posted by: dkm on Nov 13, 2005 9:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Molly, you seem to have missed the point of torture. It has two purposes, neither of which is to get information. The first purpose is to terrorize those who haven't been tortured, but who are next in line to be captured. That is the way the Soviet Union kept its people in line, through State sponsored terror.

The second is that it feels so GOOOOOD to those psychopaths that are responsible for doing it, or better, for ordering it done. That way they can tell themselves that they are big and macho and dominant and all that other stuff. Meanwhile, deep in their hearts they know that they don't amount to the scrapings out of a litter box. So they pile the torture on some more just to make that feeling go away, sort of like drinking too much.

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» RE: Why torture? Posted by: Fade
The root of all evil
Posted by: homebrewmike on Nov 13, 2005 12:10 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In this happy go lucky day of W, Torture, and other villiany, it's helpful to consider the root of all evil.

And, as much as I'd like to say it was Karl Rove or Pat Buchanon, n all actually, it's your neighbor. Or your brother-in-law, or your cousin.

Our friends and relatives are supporting this evil and it's manifesting in our political leaders. It's obvious that THEIR churches lack the morality that they claim to support. The golden rule seems, in this day and age, to have been replaced by an eye for an eye.

The solution? Damned if I know. The "let's burn his fingers until he tells" approach to information extraction just seems so... compelling (for one, it's a guy thing. Guys are action oriented... but I digress...) You have someone who knows something - how do you get them to spill the beans? Can't do it by offering them cake.

But, that's just it. How do I convince my pro-torture pals that torture is evil? Molly's article just won't do it, sorry to say. Heck, quite a few folks around here would just like to torture them because they can. That's how freaking scary our society has become. Why wasn't there moral outrage to our hell-prisons? Obvious - a good percentage of God Fearing, Jesus loving hyporcites got their jollies off of it.

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» RE: The root of all evil Posted by: Lincoln fan
Where are the Real men and women?
Posted by: freemind on Nov 13, 2005 9:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It doesn't take a lot of imagination to know that people who practice torture were the playground bullies of their youth. Young boys bully. Grown men torture. But Molly, you're so right and more people have to say it, Real Men Don't Torture. Real Men Don't Lie. Real Men Don't Play War. And real Americans (politicians too) do not deliberately sacrifice our country's safety for the sake money, oil, revenge, the stock market...or anything else. This United States is in the hands of overgrown boys with expensive toys. It's time to elect a few men!!

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Excuses...
Posted by: magistre on Nov 14, 2005 10:01 AM   
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Every one has one and nobody wants to admit that they're afraid of the truth. and the truth is: "Nothing is as it appears!". Remember the looting of the Bagdad museum? It sure didn't seem as if this was a random act,what was really going on here? And the fact that there are 75% more "mercenaries" on the ground in Iraq than combined U.S.,British,etc. troops begs the question: "Just what are they doing there? (incompetentely) Defending oil wells,etc.? Or playing "Al-Queda"?

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MOLLY IVINS!
Posted by: magistre on Nov 15, 2005 3:53 PM   
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Something I just came across in reading: In the Great Land of "Judge Lynch"(Texas) former governor George W. Bush only found it in his heart to pardon two people condemned to death, the most notable being Henry Lee Lucas one of the most prolific serial killers ever. Now,we know Bush doesn't have any goodness in his heart so the question is: Just why would he pardon such an irresolute mass killer? Does it have some connection to the story that Lucas told about Satanists in high places?

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This Administration's inability to admit it was wrong...
Posted by: sgtmartin1 on Nov 15, 2005 8:03 PM   
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and cling to absurdities like the president saying "we don't torture" on the same day US servicemen are charged with torturing by the military is doing more harm than any of Bush's misguided policies on the international stage.

He primed the pump by pulling out on global warming, he really pissed the international community off with the Iraq invasion, and he's conviced them that we are lunatics by insisting we reserve the right to torture.

This hurts us a thousand ways. Good luck wagging your finger at the Chinese dubya.

New on EWM: Pentagon Caught Torturing Prisoners with Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit Applications
Amnesty International calls practice “barbaric”

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Do CNN & Paula Zahn Support Torture?
Posted by: liberazi on Nov 16, 2005 6:10 AM   
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Last on CNN, their piece on torture started out with Paula stereotyping all torture victims as people who have "cut off heads, planted roadside bombs", etc., etc. Are we now judging all the Iraqi people based on the actions of a few? Or do we still uphold the principle an one individual cannot be held accountable for the crimes of another individual?

It was obvious from her phrasing that she presumes all torture victims to be guilty of cutting off heads and planting roadside bombs. And this without any due process of law. The truth is that the overwhelming majority of torture victims are innocent. How much more biggoted and un-American can you get? Shame on you Paula, and shame on you, CNN.

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