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Working Hard or Hardly Working

By Rachel Neumann, AlterNet. Posted October 19, 2005.


In this exclusive interview, Barbara Ehrenreich talks about the thin line between the middle class and the working poor and why she wants to slap the next person who insists on the power of positive thinking.
Barbara Ehrenreich
Barbara Ehrenreich

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Barbara Ehrenreich is one of those rare writers who is not only smart and unapologetically progressive, but really funny. That's quite a feat considering the deadly serious subjects she takes on, including the middle class, war, marriage, cancer, and corporations.

Like Alexis de Tocqueville, Ehrenreich seems most interested in the characters, mythologies and systems that make the United States what it is. In hundreds of articles and a dozen books, she's focused on how this country works, who it works for, and who is left behind.

In the bestseller Nickel and Dimed, she worked at a variety of low-wage jobs with the idea of answering the question of how people in the working poor survive and make ends meet. Her latest book, Bait and Switch, was inspired by a reader who asked, "What about those of us in the middle class who do everything we're supposed to; what about those of us go to college, work hard, get a job, and then find ourselves unemployed and unable to pay the bills?"

Ehrenreich spoke with AlterNet about class, prevailing American mythologies, and why she's through with going under cover.

Back in the spring, NPR did a show about a recent study showing that class mobility in the United States is basically nonexistent. The single most indicative factor of a person's income is that person's parents' income. Lower classes in Canada, Britain, Germany and France have a far easier time moving their way up the social ladder than their American counterparts. Yet, a New York Times study found that 80 percent of Americans believe it's still possible to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Did your experience in Bait and Switch and Nickel and Dimed give you any sense of why that belief still persists?

EHRENREICH: There is a tremendous American theme about positive thinking. We have a hard time dealing with truly bad news and discouraging information. Throughout my experience trying to get a white-collar job, I was encouraged to think positively. You are supposed to see your job loss as some great break, your chance to move on to something bigger and better. The reality is that 70 percent of people who lose their jobs and do get rehired, are rehired at a lower pay. But to criticize the system, or to be negative is considered "un-American."

It was a similar attitude that drove me crazy when I was dealing with breast cancer. Despite study after study showing there was no correlation, everyone kept telling me that my outcome would be better if I had a better attitude.

What's so offensive about that insistence, whether in relation to illness or job loss, is the implication that the victim is at fault. If you don't get better or you don't find a better job, then there must be something wrong with your attitude. The government (or the doctor, or the employer) doesn't have to take responsibility for providing for you, because if you aren't doing well, it's your fault. And of course it's an outlook that's enormously satisfying for those on top, because it implies they deserve to be there because of their winning attitudes.

It makes sense that people holding power would believe this, but why do you think others believe it, despite their own experience?

The belief in a positive attitude is so ingrained in American thinking. You can see it in the late 19th century, with the advent of Mary Baker Eddy and Christian Science. In the '50s, it was called the Power of Positive Thinking. In the '70s, it was called EST.

Now it's in all the business books I've read. It's crammed down people's throats in books like Who Moved My Cheese.

One job-seeker I met, told me he'd "gotten over" all the negative feelings he had from his firing. He'd absorbed all these feelings in the hopes that this would get him a better job!


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Rachel Neumann is Rights & Liberties Editor at AlterNet.

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The "Attitude Excuse" Has Got To Go!!!
Posted by: badger on Oct 19, 2005 2:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you for this article!! For years I'd known my attitude had nothing to do with the problems I saw (and continue to see) at work, but being blamed for a "poor attitude" was usually a cover-up for management's own incompetence. I've lost umpteen jobs as a cabinetmaker whenever I'd inquire "what's so gender-specific about wood?" in response to shop owners insisting women-can't-be-woodworkers - then I'd get the "you have a bad attitude" bum's rush. I've learned the hard way MY attitude has nothing to do with most problems.
At least now I know I'm not alone in this belief.

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been there, done that
Posted by: Samantha Vimes on Oct 19, 2005 2:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I realised I would never have a corporate personality. What I also learned was that by always using positive language and an innocent, sincere smile, I could use irony as a weapon to tear the lies off the system and help my coworkers find their spine. It helped that my boss was a nasty enough person to occaissionally say what she meant in front of a roomful of people, like telling one girl if she couldn't fake being happy, she should look elsewhere for a job, because the company doesn't care how thw employees feel.

I stood up and thanked her for being so honest with us when for years we'd been told the exact opposite-- but her explanation fit the facts we faced daily better. That manager ended up caving in on the points of policy that had been at issue before, and offering personal apologies to everyone who'd been offended.

Needless to say, first round of layoffs and it was my head on the block-- but the first layoffs got the best severence packages. There is some benefit to being the one who the boss is afraid of.

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» RE: been there, done that Posted by: yesman
What Can I do?
Posted by: ashifrass on Oct 19, 2005 3:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I will not be able to hide my individuality, and personal belifes when my time comes to enter the corporate worl. I just can't do this. I don't really even want the corporate world to be apart of the picture, but in this corporate country what can i do, and still be sucessful? In two years I will be graduating high school. Somone, help me, what can i do?

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» RE: What Can I do? Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: What Can I do? Posted by: Fade
» RE: What Can I do? Posted by: roygib
» RE: What Can I do? Posted by: mwildfire
» RE: What Can I do? Posted by: tofocsend
» RE: What Can I do? Posted by: jobie1kno
» RE: What Can I do? Posted by: Robert Jasmin
» RE: What Can I do? Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: What Can I do? Posted by: philame
» Some good advice here... Posted by: Ely Whitney
» RE: What Can I do? Posted by: jhosch
» RE: What Can I do? Posted by: crusty
» AN ALTERNATE VIEWPOINT Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: What Can I do? Posted by: stoney13
» RE: What Can I do? Posted by: kmaripo
» Adapt Posted by: AdamSelene11726
» RE: What Can I do? Posted by: Lizka
Noothing like depression and red tape....
Posted by: Aureantes on Oct 19, 2005 3:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The last place I worked a steady job, though a major and influential business in my hometown, was run by a couple of gladhanding partners (one of them had inherited the store) who said proudly once that when they started out 12 years ago running the place they didn't know the first thing about retail...but they didn't (and still don't) know how to handle a store in itself, with both customers and employees to interact with as positively and constructively as possible.

They had no dedicated HR person, a falsely-advertised "open door policy", high turnover in both cashiering and sales because of the high pressure and lack of consideration, high-profile charity events that were (of course) mainly excuses to throw the store name around more, high retail prices and a deceptive consumer rewards program, closed meetings and extended lunch absences that were always frustrating the clients whom they never called back (open secret, their communication sucked), bad temper on one part and near-spinelessness on the other, no concept of how to really maintain employee morale, irritable and callous middle-managers (known fact), and a receptionist/office manager who finally quit with no notice, leaving me to try to fill what I could of her shoes with hardly any training atall (our schedules never crossed for long enough)--and then getting blamed for not knowing/remembering all the proper procedures.

I knew more about the human relations (HR and PR) of running a business from my college courses and on-the-job observation then they did from 12 years of hands-on experience...but of course, a college degree means jack sh** with no credibility in the store hierarchy and a middle manager who thinks you're "stuck-up" and have a rotten attitude. I didn't have a rotten attitude, just a lack of ability to kiss ass with sufficiently convincing docility...but it's very easy to develop a rotten attitude towards *any* job when you know that the people in charge are inept, callous, self-delusional and merely greedy--and that you haven't a chance in hell of them listening to any suggestions from the desk jockey manning the phone.

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join the church
Posted by: menckenman on Oct 19, 2005 4:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ehrenreich would have done better to become an evangelical and found a nice big christian cathredral to network in. Change your party too. Maybe the Repugs can find you something in government.

The recession is working!

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agitator church and state
Posted by: eileenflmng on Oct 19, 2005 5:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Go ahead and slap me Barabara for I am a positive thinker and I know one is either wired to see the glass 1/2 empty or almost full.
We are individually wired to be pessimist, optimist or realist and we need all three points of view.

And it is also not just the poor who 'rebel' against the system.
I can afford plastic surgery, have no debt, live in paradise and spend my day confronting hypocricy in high places, speaking the truth fearlessly and positively know that whenever anyone is DOING SOMETHING POSITIVE for another, they are contributing to a better world than the one we live in now.


"Never doubt that a few, thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world: Indeed, it is the ONLY thing that ever has."-the very positive Margaret Mead

WAWA is a Positive Public Service site and the agitator is ready and willing to get 'slapped' Barbara and I quote President Bush: "Bring it on."

www.wearewideawake.org

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» RE: agitator church and state Posted by: monkeywrench
» RE: agitator church and state Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» RE: agitator church and state Posted by: monkeywrench
» RE: agitator church and state Posted by: stevefoagardner
As far as I can tell
Posted by: crusty on Oct 19, 2005 5:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As far as I can tell this idea that positive attitude is a bad thing is just sour grapes. I have been self employed for a while now, and do have to work in my off season at random jobs in the food world. In my unscientific findings over the years a positive attitude in the work place is essential to success. People who enj0oy what they do usually (not always) create a better product. As an employer I weould far sooner have someone who is upbeat and positive as an employee. there are alot of reasons for bad attitudes in the work place and most of the time it is something tht is not related to the work place. There are alot of jobs out there.... if you are out of work and cannot find a job in your field, it makes a goood deal of senseto get a job doing anything while you look for the job you want. NO sense getting impoverished looking for the ideal job. Again in these cases I think it is more likely a personal probelm then anything else.

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» Positive thinking... Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Positive thinking... Posted by: crusty
» RE: As far as I can tell Posted by: wallart
» RE: As far as I can tell Posted by: crusty
» RE: As far as I can tell Posted by: yesman
» RE: As far as I can tell Posted by: crusty
Ehrenreich...meh
Posted by: bettsoff on Oct 19, 2005 6:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
B.E. has never gained much ground with me b/c her undercover forays are simply not impressive. Nellie Bly didn't get chucked in the asylum by acting sane. What made Ehrenreich think she'd get hired without fully adopting the corporate sheep attitude? Simply put, she'd make a bad spy. It's awesome that she, like myself and many others, find it really hard if not impossible to become one of the shiny, happy people, but if she can't manage it for 6 months' research, her book is just telling me what I already know--that it's hard to get by as a square peg.

That said, her take on the culture of bland positivity and victims-of-their-own-attitude is something with which I agree. It is important to believe in yourself and your talents and smarts, but it's more important not to be deluded into thinking that the perfect job will come along if *only* you believe a little harder that it will.

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quest for balance
Posted by: sacredpsyc on Oct 19, 2005 6:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While this article is a useful foil it simply negates psychological research that supports the view that one's attitude does effect health, perception, judgement, etc. ... all which influence behavior. Certainly much of "pop psychology" is too simplistic but if psyche logia is defined as applied philo sophia, the love of wisdom, as one wise Elder in the field offered, than whose wisdom one applies is a key question. If I choose Epictetus, who offered it's not the events but one's view of those events that is critical to outcome, than call me a pop psychologist. I found it interesting that the same ancient quote was used both in my 1896 copy of the Dhammapada and my 1979 Introduction to Cognitive- Behavioral Psychology as a foundational belief. Use your Kali sword to flay the collective ego Barbara if it serves you well, and hopefully the greater good ... stay open to those who differ, if you will, as Senge et al offer in their important work Presence released last year. Our world needs you to find balance, along with the rest of us.
www.sacredpsyc.com

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» RE: quest for balance Posted by: bettsoff
» RE: quest for balance Posted by: crusty
» Kali sword Posted by: eastcoker
» RE: quest for balance Posted by: wallart
» RE: quest for balance Posted by: owleyes
» RE: quest for balance Posted by: yesman
American Dream
Posted by: jobie1kno on Oct 19, 2005 6:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The perception that the American Dream will come to us, with lots of hard work, is as comforting as thinking that peace in heaven will await us after this life. This keeps millions of people content (just as religion does) that they simply have to work for it, be good, and not judge others who are succesful; whether they are succesful in their own right, have the right family connections, or are simply benefitting from what can be considered to be immoral gains (such as the top execs who earn millions while cutting back healthcare benefits and pensions to those who made them sucessful). The American Dream isn't all about money, but in this day and age it seems that you cannot have one without excesses of the other. Fortunately, love, health and security are aspects of the American Dream that are cost free. Oops, scratch health and security. And I think Hallmark has the Love thing bought and paid for...

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» RE: American Dream Posted by: Colin
» RE: American Dream Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: American Dream Posted by: Doubtom
Words from one who has lived it.
Posted by: bookwoman on Oct 19, 2005 7:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am familiar with the book "Nickle and Dimed" and Ms. Ehrenrich should get an award for her research and writing. There is no way to pull yourself up by your bootstraps if you have no bootstraps. At the age of 31, I was put into a situation, by divorce, of having to worry where my next dollar was coming from. However, even in that situation, I was never poverty stricken. I also had parents who would have helped out with money and any other resource if I had asked. Still I had made my own bed, but I cringe when I hear about the newest great idea the Congress has to undercut the poor. How they can even be considering making the tax cuts to the rich permanent when our economy is in such a mess is beyond me.

I believe, along with many writers of economics and social trends, that a hand in hand partner of the movement to restore family values is an effort to reduce anyone who makes less than $500,000 a year to cannon fodder. The people who run the large corporations are in pursuit of a working class who has no "social safety net". Getting rid of such programs as welfare and social security as well as getting rid of unions would roll back the calendar to 1930. The workers could be manipulated and controlled whatever way was necessary. We are seeing, in New Orleans and other situations, how the poor are treated. One Republican official was heard to cheer the fact that Katrina had eliminated the ninth ward which he and his cohorts had been trying to get rid of for years.

However, in situations such as this, I am always reminded of the words of the German clergyman, Martin Niemoller. However, perhaps we should rewrite it to read first they came for the poor, and I did nothing and then they came for the lower middle class, and I did nothing; then they came for the middle class and ....... The re-election of a group of people who are out to destroy the middle class makes me stand in awe and think that enlightened self interest is a thing of the past. Wake up people - you are in danger. Consider what is going on in Washington and think carefully before you vote in 2006 and 2008. I would like to close by saying that I am a cradle Republican who attends church at least once a week. I am in the target group for the family values movement; however, instead of cheering for the victories of the GOP and the Conservative Right, I am weeping for the rest of our country.

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» RE: Words from one who has lived it. Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» RE: Words from one who has lived it. Posted by: independent1
Positive thinking subverted
Posted by: xenacat on Oct 19, 2005 7:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
BE makes a brillant point - "positive thinking" has been perverted into an abusive management tool within the corporate structure. It is very delusive to accept the absolutely psychotic conditions that white collar workers find themselves in by accepting those conditions with such ridiculus "positive" thoughts such as "well, we always have coffee in the morning...". Positive thinking in and of itself is generally desireable - fooling oneself into thinking things are okay when they are not is nuts.

Please feel free to metaphorically slap me, BE, if I ever say anything positive about the last CEO I worked for. The man was rude, crude, exploitive, alcoholic, a liar and a self-absorbed trust fund brat who ran our company into the ground. He too claimed to be "spiritual" and "positive". Believe me, there was nothing positive about the situation - a situation which is unfortunately the norm for white collar workers everywhere.

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» RE: Positive thinking subverted Posted by: eastcoker
Thanks
Posted by: esactun on Oct 19, 2005 8:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you Barabara for giving voice to so many things I've thought of and realized over my cubicle years. Thank you for letting me know I'm not totally nuts. :)

White-collar-land looks like a scene out of Invasion of the Body Snatchers half the time.

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Don't Buy In
Posted by: daveinchi on Oct 19, 2005 9:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Stay Out.

Being somewhat poor is by no means the same thing as living an unhappy or unproductive life. I would suggest you NEVER GET A CREDIT CARD and never tie your personality to any one "job." This means living within your means, and having flexibility.

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» RE: Don't Buy In Posted by: bettsoff
» RE: Don't Buy In Posted by: loony
» RE: Don't Buy In Posted by: Artemis3
Tell it like it is!
Posted by: eastcoker on Oct 19, 2005 9:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excellent article! My former housemate tried to get me to read Nickel and Dimed but I could not...Well I just emailed her and asked her if she still had the book!

You are right, it is all about the parents' level of education and income...

for me, this article speaks to the need for faith, personally. Without it, it would be too easy to get depressed. With it, why one may not even need anti-depressant medications. Seriously!

It is hard to live in this world without faith cause so much is trying to smack you down, including evangelical christianity. Bad christians! I am doing my part to reel them, as one christian to another.

Class can be a barrier and a division and can only be overcome consciously, which means laying aside bitterness and resentment...

I do not have the peace making solutions for the 'class war' but I do know that it requires that the privlieged lay down their privilige and I do not know how to get them to do that. I live among the priviliged and I can barely talk to them my self. Heck I got a friend at my child's school who has got two PhD's one from Vienna the other from SUNY and teaches political philosophy at the local jesuit univeristy. I have a hard time seeing this lady as my equal, and yet god sees us as all equal...

And I myself rejected the corporate world as a teenager! Yeah, that is how I first supported my self, working in a big corporation in the communications department and I said Blech! to heck with it! I would rather work in education, and we KNOW that aint where the moneys at...

so I don't know what the solution is...but I do know that it starts with the education of the youth, with creative freedom in youth, with progressive teachers in youth, with enrichment in childhood. That I am sure of. Which returns to importance of education!

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not much to relate too ...
Posted by: Farmertim on Oct 19, 2005 9:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I finished bait and switch last night, all be it a good read I found nothing to relate to, other than the corporate structure reminds me of what happend to farming 40 years ago, which has moved in to almost every thing our country does....fit in our your out.
I never would so I never did, and work for myself, and still do, and still don't fit what agribussiness wants me to be.
There is no future in it nor any satisfaction.
How can one work in an environment that we are told to smile and have a good attitude when your inner voice is screaming what the H@#l is this.
The only one corporate people want to be like is the happiest guy on the top of the hill, of course he's happy look what he gets paid not to do.....
a good outlook usually is precided by a good experience, non of which seems to happen in the corporate structure.
This too is related to the whole everything is ok mode most of the nations people seem to buy into on a regular basis unless we are fortunate enough to hear foreign press telling how things really are.
Things are not ok and need attention not only in corporations but on a personal level as well as the environment.
I had a dog when I was a kid that was allowed in the house but not on any carpet.
over time he would put his head on the carpet and cover his eyes with his paws... leaving us to think , If he can't see us then we can't see him....eyes covered or not dog, your still on the carpet...

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» RE: not much to relate too ... Posted by: bettsoff
What is 'Middle Class'
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Oct 19, 2005 11:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just where is this middle class that's supposed to exist in this country? I've been looking for many years and have'nt found it yet. I've seen many folks who think they're middle class and folks that think they're 'living' middle class. Middle
Class, the place where,if you're lucky enough to be there, the ends might be meeting or else they're pretty damn close. Where
a single paycheck family gets the good house,great neighborhood,
good,safe schools,paid life and health insurance house,two cars and something of a nestegg. If middle class is $125,000,no wife,no
children and live in a city smaller that 65,000. Fact is if you have a spouse,two children,and live in a city of 100,000,are a single paycheck family,your $125,000 annual income IS NOT
middle class. You are ,in fact, the top 1/2 of 1% of LOW INCOME. Where do those numbers come from? USDA. Look
it up. If you want a grant you have to meet what they call 'Mid-level Low Income' standards for most housing programs. One of the lowest of these standards is Appleton Wi., Pop. 71,0000+ Mid-level Low Income $ 52,000,family of
three. True big city middle income,single paycheck middle income, is about $250,000/year. Trouble is,we have incomes as high as 200 million/year and they force the tax burden on
the alledged middle class. Because vast amounts of capital is centralized away from the people there are no middle classes,just folks that have it a little better off than the guy working in the burger joint. A 75% tax on all incomes over
a million dollars a year shifting the money straight into free healthcare and education,from K- Grad School, might be a good start

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» RE: What is 'Middle Class' Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: What is 'Middle Class' Posted by: jobie1kno
» RE: What is 'Middle Class' Posted by: yesman
Nowhere to go but sideways or down.
Posted by: cstriker on Oct 19, 2005 11:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only way that attitude affects your ability to work is in your desire to work. If you aren't in customer service or dealing with any client base, then it should not matter what you think or how you look so long as the job is completed in a timely manner and with few or no mistakes.

My attitude when applying for jobs has always been to think, "I will get this job", but I only applied for jobs I was almost guaranteed of getting anyway. And I can only think of two instances out of 25 or more where it didn't work. I have worked my way up from blue collar to white collar, and part of it was in my attitude because getting discouraged is no reason to stop keeping on. The rest was in happening across managers that weren't afraid of taking a risk. My attitude only made my willingness to work hard clear to prospective employers because that was the quality I chose to express.

I have had to take on many responsibilities to maintain this, but it has been a good experience. I now wear many hats. I am IT, HR, AP, and administration manager. I do feel stuck here without further education though.

Not saying attitude plays a more major role than what I stated above. It really doesn't, but walking around telling people where to stick it all the time doesn't help either.

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It could have been me
Posted by: ScottP on Oct 19, 2005 11:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fear of admitting that the latest lay off "could have been me" is what drives much of the positive attitude junk. Just being lucky isn't nearly as comforting as thinking you're actually better, a quality that might persist through the next round of lay offs.

I actually do think that not getting into fear modes does enhance one's productivity. This is very visible in skill sports (choking), but also seems to work for intellectual work. I think my focus is better when I'm not worrying about losing my job, regardless of the probability of losing it. That focus leads to better results, which unfortunately doesn't translate to reducing the probability of being laid off. But since I've worked successfully to be in work that I feel contributes to society, I can feel the fulfillment of a job well done. One day I'll be laid off, and will start yet again.

I wish more people would turn off their TVs, do the deep thinking to find a niche, and then succeed at securing that niche.

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Corporate culture is NOT the only choice
Posted by: kmaripo on Oct 19, 2005 11:37 AM   
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I suspect that many of the people in this forum, at least those of us in our 50s, were having similar thoughts and feelings when we were sophomores in high school. It's natural to wonder about the future and I admire you for being mature enough to discern that the corporate world might not be the right place for you. My first suggestion would be to stop worrying so much..you are still in the process of discovering who you are and how you fit in the world. Your experiences now are vital to shaping the person you are becoming - turn your concern over the future into actions in the present. If you don't like what you see in the corporate world, start exploring some of the many alternatives suggested here: volunteer for a local non-profit, take some classes in hands-on subjects (woodworking, auto mechanics, jewelry making, ceramics, welding, etc.), find a local business person or craftsperson who is successful in an area that interests you and ask if you can learn from them, learn to act/sing/dance/juggle...follow your interests, take creative writing class, volunteer to help in a classroom of young children...you get the point. Your primary job right now is discovering what inspires you - what makes your whole body/mind/heart/spirit sing with delight. Once you know what you most love to do - and it might be several things - you will have a better idea about what direction you will ultimately need to move in. If you choose to go to college, don't do it just for the degree - do it for yourself and the opportunity it provides to keep learning about subjects you love. And perhaps most important of all, start thinking about what the word 'success' means to you...While it's true that corporate culture dominates the global economy, it is not true that the only way to be successful is to make a lot of money. If you find the corporate world unattractive, then it is important that you examine what it stands for as well, and determine whether the assumptions inherent in a corporate attitude are useful to your own goals. Barbara Ehrenreich's position on 'positive thinking' is certainly applicable to the prevailing attitudes within the corporate culture, but, in my opinion, do not apply to one's life. The opportunities for creating a successful life with work that is both meaningful and sustaining are limited only by your imagination and the skills you choose to develop. Good luck and...try to think more about what you love - less about what you fear.

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oops! sorry....
Posted by: kmaripo on Oct 19, 2005 12:36 PM   
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Sorry all...the previous message was intended as a reply to "What Can I Do"....new on this board and hit the wrong button!

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abuelo
Posted by: abuelo on Oct 19, 2005 2:25 PM   
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there are numerous assumptions and errors in this piece, a few of them are:
1.that parents' income is the determinant of children's income. from my own experience, my grandparents were uneducated immigrants. my father got a college degree at night. we lived in a low-rent housing project in NYC while he held down 2 jobs. I went to a public college and then worked my way through grad school on a teaching assistantship. I now earn a comfortable 6-figure income in my own business that I started. my son borrowed everything he could and went to medical school.
2. there is a huge difference between accepting reality and developing a plan for the future, vs. believing that job loss is "some great break" in disguise
3. who says it is considered un-American to be unhappy about less pay in the subsequent job? I certainly never heard that before, and I don't think it is a good assumtion on which to base other points in the article.
4. there IS no implication that the victim of the job loss is at fault. there is a HUGE difference between maintaining the best possible attitude to avoid depression and "if you aren't doing well. it's your fault".
5. it IS true that people with a positive attitude will interview better and have a better chance at getting a job. who would YOU hire? someone positive or a whiner?

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» RE: abuelo Posted by: abuelo
» RE: abuelo Posted by: loony
» RE: abuelo Posted by: yesman
Grim reality
Posted by: Blue Heron on Oct 19, 2005 2:44 PM   
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I truly appreciate this woman's candor in the research she does. However, I think there is something much deeper and darker going on. Americana culture would have us delete those words from the dictionary forever, but that's just too bad. It's not gonna happen; not with the reality we are facing now. We ARE seriously undereducated and illiterate and bereft of original ideas (white collar or not). The corporate culture IS turning us into a fascist state. Let's please just face it folks. We're better than some Mickey Mouse caricature. Let's banish the age of beige forever - unless of course we want folk from other countries to simply take over. And that's very easily accomplished when a whole nation loses it's ability to protest or encourage dissent. But what about the average American student? Can he or she find time to protest when studying and working full time? I think not. Maybe we need to see to it that education does not also become the sole domain of the elite.

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» RE: Grim reality Posted by: loony
» RE: Grim reality Posted by: Blue Heron
» RE: Grim reality Posted by: yesman
» RE: Grim reality Posted by: crusty
» RE: Grim reality Posted by: Blue Heron
» RE: Grim reality Posted by: crusty
» RE: Grim reality Posted by: Jacqueline
» RE: Grim reality Posted by: Blue Heron
Ehrenreich Has No Clue
Posted by: Campesino on Oct 19, 2005 4:34 PM   
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I'm glad I didn't bother reading "Bait and Switch". This interview shows that BE has never held a job in a corporation and extrapolates her experiences with the out-placement industry as typical of what goes on after you get a job. She is totally wrong. She strings together those unapplicable experiences with anecdotal stories to paint a flawed picture of someting she knows nothing about.

I have spent 18 years working for two corporations in the Fortune 50 and the last 3 years with a consulting firm that just missed the Fortune 500 by a hair. I have worked as both an individual contributor and as a mid-level manager. I have been laid off twice - actually one of those was from a tiny company with 50 employees. In each case I recovered with a better paying job with more responsibility. I never got a job though an out-placement company - I got them by personal networking and professional associations which is how most white-collar employees get jobs.

"Before going deeper into white-collar job searching, I would have assumed the emphasis would be on the bottom line. It seems that corporations would want good problem-solvers, even if they were eccentric and dressed funny."

Obviously, BE never got past "Go" to see what real work is and what real people in real companies are like. Some of the most creative, eccentric, and passionate people I have ever met worked for these large corporations. And they were successful and admired within the companies because of those qualities. Some of them even dressed funny. Ignorant people like BE don't understand how large successful corporations become large and successful. It's because intelligent and creative people manage them - problem solvers - that BE has convinced herself they don't want to hire. Ehrenreich has no idea what a wide range of tolerance of behavior there is in corporations because she's never been in one.

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» RE: hrenreich Has No Clue Posted by: ann s
» RE: a bizarre rant Posted by: ScottP
» RE: hrenreich Has No Clue Posted by: nitsua1023
» RE: hrenreich Has No Clue Posted by: Jacqueline
Ehrenreich Has No Clue 2
Posted by: Campesino on Oct 19, 2005 4:35 PM   
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"In The Mangaged Heart, Arlie Hochschild wrote about the bland mask that workers are required to wear. Eventually, you get used to the affect and people lose the capacity to recognize their own emotions."

" Part of pop psychology is that you should acknowledge your feelings, but there's no place for them in the workplace."

Both of these statements are just nonsense. In both working for people and having people work for me I have seen (and displayed) the full range of emotions that normal people express in public. What does she think people do all day at work? Oh that's right - she's never been there to see!!

"I think if I'd been able to land a white-collar job I may have had more rounded experiences of the people I was working with and perhaps their defiance would come out in subtle ways as well."

At least here she admits she has no clue. She thinks white-collar employees can't be defiant?

"What's so offensive about that insistence, whether in relation to illness or job loss, is the implication that the victim is at fault. If you don't get better or you don't find a better job, then there must be something wrong with your attitude. The government (or the doctor, or the employer) doesn't have to take responsibility for providing for you, because if you aren't doing well, it's your fault."

Listen to this - passive, victim, provide for me! Well - the government, the doctor, the employer - they are there to help. But at base all of us are responsible for providing for ourselves.

It's obvious Ehrenreich is providing for herself. I shudder to think how much money she will get for this book which consists of made-up stuff on a subject that she has no experience of.

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» campesino ain't no campesino Posted by: decembrist
FOr those who still think that they its the fault of those who can't find a job or lose a job....
Posted by: ann s on Oct 19, 2005 7:12 PM   
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Campensiono (see above) needs to see more than his tiny corner of the world

How nice for him in what he says has been his experience.. Having watched the effects of a Fortune 50 corporation "downsizing" over 6000 of its upper level management in the space of 6 months after a merger, yhe has been extremely and exceptionally fortunate. I doubt however that he is (1) over 50, (2) considered "over-qualfied for the positions available due to a marked glut of applicants and which causes one to search for any job in their field - up, lateral or down(3) under-qualified for the position meaning he only has a general MBA and not one speciific to micromanaging a tiny specialty area of one indusrty, (3) ever took time out from his career to care for a suddenly disabled spouse or ill family member - "oh, sorry, that does so give the appearance of not putting your career first and, gee, you could be unreliable if something like that comes up again", (4) has any kind of physical disability that makes it nesessary for him to take a less demanding position - see reasons 2,and 3 above for the reasons offerred for the refusal to hire with the addition of "you wouldn't be happy doing something at a lower level" which presumably implies that one prefers starving or losing their home to being bored (5) been self employed for several decades so "oh, sorry but you lack EMPLOYER references and (6) in some states with smaller employers so that they are exemt from the Federal EEOC and where the state law permits it: we don't want a woman, a moan, a black.... (yes, Virginia, some states do allow sthese smaller employers to refuse to hire for those reasons.)

The psycho-babble terms of "good attitude", "team player", "right mix" and such were invented 30 years ago by large companies' labor lawyers to give bland reasons to coonceal some not-so-acceptable acts or attitudes on the part of employers.

I KNOW what large companies - as in the Fortune 100 and up variety - are like. My husband and I represented them in their labor and employement relations for over 40 years between us.

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the elites evolved American culture to suit them
Posted by: cry0fan on Oct 19, 2005 8:49 PM   
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humans are part learning and part inheritance. Part of that learning is cultural learning.

The American culture is uniquely evolved by elite forces in order to be friendly and receptive to elite ideas.

My blog talks about this:
http://www.leftwingmediamachine.blogspot.com

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