News for Real / By Stephen Pizzo
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 78

A Doozie of a Recession

Recessions begin when consumers suddenly discover they can no longer keep pace with their bills. And this one has already begun.
October 5, 2005  |  
 
 
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Of course George W. Bush will blame it all on the war and two hurricanes. In fact, it's a direct result of his own flawed economic policies and the "borrow and spend" lifestyle he sparked, not only within government, but consumers as well.

I am referring to the looming recession. It's going to be a doozie. And it has begun, as it always does, when consumers suddenly discover they can no longer keep pace with their bills.

That would have happened a couple of years ago already, had it not been for the housing bubble. Like all bubbles it was ordinary folk who eagerly fueled the Ponzi, an inverted pyramid sure to topple once it became top-heavy. As with all previous bubbles, everyone crushed by that inevitable collapse figured they were too smart to get caught by it. They figured they'd be well out of Dodge with the booty long before that happened.

So they bought homes bigger than they needed, and each time rates dropped or prices jumped in their area they refinanced, pulling a bit more booty out each time; for a pool, landscaping, or a new car. They had time. The economists said there was no bubble, prices were going up because of natural demand, not speculation. And so they stayed in Dodge. They let it ride, they let it all ride on successive spins of the wheel of fortune.

But now the hot housing market has begun to cool. Prices in the hottest markets have flattened. Houses listed for sale have grown as those who waited too long rush to cash in. Days on the market are marching upward as buyers become increasingly scarce.

That's only one indication that the end is near for George W. Bush's phony recovery -- a "recovery" bought with tax cuts he cannot repeat, and with consumer spending fueled by borrowed money, which is no longer available. Hell, consumers may not even be able to make good on the money they've already borrowed. The indicators indicate that is so:
The percentage of overdue US credit card accounts jumped to a record in the second quarter as gasoline prices surged, the American Bankers Association said. Consumers had more trouble making payments on personal, auto and home-equity loans during the three-month span, the bankers group said. Delinquencies on these loans, collectively, rose to 2.22 percent from a revised 2.03 percent in the prior quarter, the group said. Delinquencies on home-equity loans increased to 2.75 percent of all such loans, up from a revised 2.61 percent. Delinquency rates for indirect auto loans, which are made by auto dealers and held by banks, increased to 2.08 percent from 1.87 percent the previous quarter. Those for direct auto loans gained to 2.07 percent from 2.04 percent.
This is a particularly bad time for consumers to be tapped out. It comes at the beginning of the holiday spending season which can account for nearly half of many retailers income for the year. It comes just as gasoline prices reach European levels, hitting low-wage workers hardest, especially if they have to commute to work. It comes just as the first chills of winter begin spreading south from Canada and as heating oil and natural gas prices spiral to unheard-of highs.

Here's where it starts:
Credit Card Minimum Payments on the Rise
San Diego, CA (PRWEB) October 4, 2005 -- The minimum payments that credit card companies charge on a monthly basis are increasing. For credit card customers that either pay their bill in full every month or those that can afford substantially more than the minimum, this isn't going to be an issue and could even be benefit to them. For the approximately 40 million people that only pay the minimum, however, this could be devastating.
When the recession can no longer be denied, the President will blame it on 9/11, the war he started, the hurricanes and the disruption in energy production they caused. Like Michael Brown, he will blame everyone and everything, but himself.

But we know.
Stephen Pizzo is the author of numerous books, including "Inside Job: The Looting of America's Savings and Loans," which was nominated for a Pulitzer.
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drew
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Posted by: drew on Oct 5, 2005 2:22 AM   
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one has to hope that it is only a recession. I wonder why the opposition in congress has not given effective consistent and persistent voice to the obvious economic future dictated by the both public and private borrowing and the national deficit. They are responsible by their silence if not, as the majority, by their actions. Voices for tax fairness will have to be raised- fairness that demands that those who benefit disproportionally should pay their fair share.

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» RE: drew Posted by: ShaSpirit
» RE: drew Posted by: LG

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Not just Dubya's fault.
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Posted by: SteveO on Oct 5, 2005 4:28 AM   
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This goes back to the losening of credit card requiremnts back during Regan's era (error). Since then, every idiot and their brother has been able to issue credit cards and send them to people who have no hope of ever getting ahead.

When Regan was running the first time, he promised he would not allow the decline of the American way of life while he was president. So what do they do?(Congress and the Fed were in on this) They set it up so everyone could barrow and spend just like the fedral government!

Anyway, my point is that we have been going down this path for 25 years and for once we can't blame it all on bad prince George and his merry band of thieves.

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» RE: Not just Dubya's fault. Posted by: jazzyjer

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Faith Carr
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Posted by: FAITHCARR on Oct 5, 2005 4:53 AM   
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This is exactly what happened to my family. One $24K a year job loss, put us in a downward spiral. To the rest of the American Citizenry.... Welcome to my World. Lost the house, rent a trailer, lost the health insurance, fell into kidney failure, lost the savings, lost the stock options. Pawn the jewlery every month to buy the gas to get our only remaining wage earner to work(from 38K to 20K in one months time). Have become familiar with the pay day advance people to keep groceries in the cupboard. Welcome to the new America.

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» RE: Faith Carr Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Faith Carr Posted by: djcrow22
» RE: Faith Carr Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Faith Carr.. Posted by: Ely Whitney
» RE: Faith Carr Posted by: badkitty
» RE: Faith Carr Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» RE: Faith Carr Posted by: woodford54

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opposition?
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Posted by: roygib on Oct 5, 2005 5:43 AM   
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Opposition? There is an opposition party in congress?

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» RE: opposition? Posted by: mwildfire
» what opposition? Posted by: jwg
» APPOSITION Posted by: LMNOP
» Republicrats...it's true Posted by: Michiganman

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Quagmire-not just home "owners"
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Posted by: fedupamerican on Oct 5, 2005 6:19 AM   
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The quagmire of income vs. rental cost ...

For those who cannot afford to buy a home, renting is the option.
Rents in my small N. MS town have skyrocketed thanks to the land-rush for condo building and faux-New Orleans, Savannah and Loft style housing, (which says something in itself- but what -I haven't quite figured out)...and housing for (of all things) "football weekends!" Some here are renting out their own homes for football weekends for $1,000!!!

Here, bulldozing and building is realtor/investor driven. We've even had a realtor guy from Florida MOVE here to set up a REAL ESTATE OFFICE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE BUILDING BOOM he had HEARD about!!!

The gentry is moving in and pushing the common folks out of the city-proper. We have had an ongoing and subtle post-Katrina 9th ward mentality here for the past 3 years. Though most of us right in town are white, we are the common folk who work at low paying jobs while housing costs average around $300,000 and rents average (2 or 3 bedroom) $1,000!!! We have notorious slumlords who are themselves wealthy yet refuse to keep the grass cut and the plumbing working on their rental properties. One of them is so cheap, they painted the visible sides of the house but left the other sides unpainted because they were hidden from the public. The left side sits right by a small hill w/hedges & trees to "hide" the ugly old orange paint while the front is painted a fresh new color. That's the mentality that helps fill the quagmire!

Relative to the bubble pop & other "tragic" happenings about to hit the "upper crust" --
Welcome to my world. No health insurance, not enough food in the house, not enough cash in your purse for food, gas, & medicine--let me see--what do I need the most--oops, the car just quit on me--do I try to repair it or pay my rent?? And when you fill out your tax return, you can laugh at the ridiculous $34.00 you get back because you didn't make enough and don't own enough to have write-offs!

Have those questions to answer for yourself for once, i.e.
Reality Check. Hope you become hand-to-mouth and come to your senses... find out what's REAL about life. You've bought yourself "happiness" and "success" to show off to your peers, and that ain't what it's all about people!!

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agitator church and state
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Posted by: eileenflmng on Oct 5, 2005 6:21 AM   
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"What do we know?"

Do we know that the American economy is based on consumerism and that our largest industry is the Industrial Military Complex?

Consuming is a narcotic for many: people shop not because they have a need, but because they are bored and empty within.
Many attempt to fill their inner emptiness up with 'things' that will never, can never satisfy a hunger for deep meaning and true life.

Eisenhower warned us in his farewell speech to BEWARE the Industrial Military Complex.
Like most prophets he was ignored.

We can spend our life blaming the goverment, but we the people are the only one's who can LOOK within our own hearts, think our own thoughts and choose to DO SOMETHING to change course.

www.wearewideawake.org

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the little breeze to anounce the storm???
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Posted by: Ely Whitney on Oct 5, 2005 6:24 AM   
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Faithcarr I feel for you, and you are correct you will not be alone in this plight. Soon you will have many neighbors in this. There are millions of american households in the same predicament that you have undergone, its just that they have not arrived to that crumble point yet.

I feel for you in that you have honored your part of the contract, you held, at one time two jobs, paid your share of taxes for a number of years and unwittingly but planned, bought into the AMERICAN DREAM as sponsored by the corporate entities that control the governments, and yes all governments Repub and Dems, are to share this situation, however it is the present administration that fast tracked what I call the inevitable... economic demise.

This is just a begininning, a story the govt is not telling the population of how the public purse has been purged of finances to the benefit of a few billionaires, who in the end could care less if you and your family freeze this winter. Theirs is about making huge profits and that is exactly what they have done.

There are signs, as indicated above with CC companies raising the minimums in hopes of recouping what extended credit they can before a crash. When the full effect of increased fuel prices is really felt, when retailers have drops in sales and have to put employees on the street, when products are no longer being consumed and more people are put on the street, when people can no longer honor their debt repsonisibility, the storm will have hit. Bankruptcy law or not, if you have no money your personal items have long gone to pay for everyday necessities it won´t matter if they call you bankrupt, you cannot get blood from a stone.

is this the breeze to anounce that storm?

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oldgringo
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Posted by: oldgringo on Oct 5, 2005 7:23 AM   
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Soooo...Now we come to the moment when ALL the rest of us, aka "the great unwashed", get to take a bath in the reality of financial catastrophe.
DO NOT EXPECT ANYTHING SO SUNDAY SCHOOL ACCEPTABLE AS A MERE "RECESSION"! What is coming will make the"Great Depression" of the last century look like a cake walk, so all who have placed their "faith" in the hands of the "compassionate "Christian" leadership that is now running this country into total destitution of the "lower classes" will now get to enjoy the fruits of the "Bush Family" and their well known concern for "those others"....
Slave chains, anyone?

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» RE: oldgringo Posted by: Kitty Lady Oregon
» RE: oldgringo Posted by: philame

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BURN THE CHURCHES !!!!
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Posted by: Kevin R. Hoskins on Oct 5, 2005 7:51 AM   
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When the crash comes, do you think the masses will finally rise up in revolt against the fascist oligarchy that we have all been brainwashed since kindergarten to accept as democracy? It's about time! And, hopefully, while they are at it they will destroy the sham churches that help perpetrate the system that continues to hold them in economic bondage. Something must change !!!!

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» A REAL CLASS WAR NOW Posted by: fairleft

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woops! ...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: fedupamerican on Oct 5, 2005 8:34 AM   
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there goes
another
mega church
down...

ya think???

those are the ones that make me ill to the bone!!!

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People have always had bill trouble
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Oct 5, 2005 8:51 AM   
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Yes sometime the firstsign of a ression is when bills for the home start not at all paid. But the 'real' trigger for a resession is the value of the money system is
tragically low, wages don't keep pace with the cost of living and the products, services offered are greatly over valued out of touch with economic realtiy. Here's a real life example. I know a custom home builder.
These homes are'nt customized for accessability or special
needs,they're just a little better than the suburban home. Man hours and materials on these over-sized energy drains runs 85-125,000 dollars add $25,000 for the lot, this house 'should' cost $200,000 allowing for modest profit. In reality these homes cost $700,000.In areas where little neighborhoods of these ego shacks are they run closer to a million dollars and more. Over valued,energy wasteing,soon to be Eminante Domained into the next Corpie Country Club. When I was a kid a dollar was a dollar,a big jar of mayo was .59,gas was .32 a gallon,bread was 4 for a dollar. Today's dollar spends like 12 cents. That's why gas is $3.00 a gallon, bread almost $2
a loaf,stocks over $10,000,a good car is$50,000 and the mileage sucks.All over valued. Why? Because the greedy pull as much wealth out of the System they can which forces the cost of everything up,the buying power goes down, the eventualities of resession and dispair with their cousins substance abuse and war.According to my father in law things have always been priced out of reach of the average American. Grampa says when Henry Ford said he'd make a car that a felloow that made a 'good wage' could afford he did'nt mean the factory workers of the day.Great Grampa told me there were these groups of people that had gotten together when he was first born that were calling themselves Corperations.That they were people with alot of money that were trying to devise ways to aquire as much money as they could on the backs of as many people that they could. He said his parents were'nt worried because there was a new group of folks that were going to keep these Corpies in check and they were called the Republicans. They sold out pretty quick. Resession only hurts the rich. As to middle and low income families, go ahead stop paying those bills,buying new or newer cars,the next big game system,T.V. can opener,whatever.It's by accepting the mass marketing crap that helps make the mess we're in.

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Consumerism vs Sustainability
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Posted by: StuartH on Oct 5, 2005 8:52 AM   
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In 1989, there was a recession, leading up to the election of 1990 when Clinton beat Bush.

Husbands and wives, middle class, working people were under great stress. Meanwhile, stockbrokers saw that situation as simply another part of the business cycle and foresaw no problems ahead.

The underlying issues are beyond the seasonal or cyclical usual business.

Since Reagan and the inception of the Supply Side movement, we have been careening slowly into a deep imbalance.

Actually it goes back further than that. The boom times of the 1950s were created by the quarterback play of the late 1940s when Madison Avenue became part of the effort to create a consumer economy based on changing the thrift psychology of GIs returning from the war who had also survived the Depression and were into saving money.

Since then, the American economy has led the whole human race pretty much into a consumption based vision of how the world works.

Unfortunately, when people figure out that a lot of what they spend money on isn't necessary, this can put a major crimp in the growth that the consumer economy depends on.

So then what? We don't have another trick in the national bag of tricks. The national media won't touch this big picture issue with a ten foot pole held by a mailroom temp while the rest of the company watches from 20 stories up through binoculars.

A paradigm shift of major proportions is in the works, which will be denied, resisted, or lied about by anyone advantaged by the corporate view of the status quo. People will continue to buy mega-yachts.

A long term approach that is sustainable and which is in a more proper balance for the larger membership of the human race will be small scale, decentralized, and discovered by individuals and their neighbors and communities. Whether there is a recession or not, or something else, this should be the work of the 21st century: discovering what sustainability means locally.

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» RE: Consumerism vs Sustainability Posted by: robmikejas

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Deflation
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Oct 5, 2005 8:58 AM   
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Our economy has been in a deflationary cycle for quite some time now. Between the political hat-dances in Washington and elsewhere Joe & Jane don't know it yet. All that's been done by consumers, banks and the government the last number of years is "eating our seed corn". The bill is coming due- one way or another.

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Faith Carr
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Posted by: woodford54 on Oct 5, 2005 9:08 AM   
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I'm right there w/you, Faith. I'm a 50 year old single woman who just had to find another job -- quickly -- and ended up w/one that pays $15,000 less than the one I had, which brings me down to the same amount annually that I was making in my late twenties! I have the usual bills and I had open-heart surgery last year w/no sick time, hence no paycheck for six weeks. I fell behind on EVERYTHING and I'm still behind. I never thought at this age I'd be in this financial position. It really sucks! I thought it was so funny the other day I was behind this rundown, filthy pick-up truck w/a Bush/Cheney sticker. Some people will never, ever, ever learn. Bush is without a doubt the worst "thing" that has ever happened to the US. No contest. Good luck to you, Faith.

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Faith Carr
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Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale on Oct 5, 2005 9:15 AM   
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Faith Carr, I sympathize with you 100%. I am an attorney who attended a continuing ed on bankruptcy law last year. One speaker was Dr. Elizabeth Warren of Harvard. She has a book called "The Two Income Trap". She studied statistics on bankruptcy spanning 20 years. Your story falls squarely into her conclusions. Her study showed that the top reason for Chapter 7 bankruptcy filings is the loss of one job/income in a two-earner household. The second reason for filing is due to staggering medical bills because an individual is either uninsured or underinsured. And remember, Chapter 7 filings will become much more difficult after October 17th, thanks to the success of the predatory lenders in bribing our officials in Washington to vote on a bill that does away with "fresh start" for the average American and squarely enriches the lenders. Screw the neocons with their incessant drumbeat that bankrupt Americans are silly individuals who cannot control their spending. And shame on every Democratic legislator who voted to support this terrible bill. Another nail in our coffin.

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This is not a recession
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Posted by: rlavelle on Oct 5, 2005 9:18 AM   
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Hate to be the doomsayer folks, but this ain't no cyclical recession. The leading derivative banks are totally bankrupt, and their little pet hedge funds are right now gaming the oil markets to bail out the huge losses they made earlier this year on GM based credit derivatives.

There are unknown quadrillions of outstanding derivatives, which banks now count as balance sheet items. Forget about credit card debt. This DWARFS any financial bubble in the known history of civilization.

This hyperinflationary wall of fictitious electronic funny money is about to collapse, and take down the entire GLOBAL monetary-financial system, central banks and all.

The dems are silent because although the leadership knows rationally full well what is coming, they are still in hysterical denial just like all their fellow market addicted baby boomers out there - and are pondering what course of action to take in the desperate hope that it isn't true.

The only way out is Senate action to put the Fed/IMF system through bankrupcty reorganization and return to national banking. But first, we need to get Bush & Cheney out of the way...

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Real goods up, labor and money down, with stagflation
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Posted by: janvdb on Oct 5, 2005 9:53 AM   
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The human race is dividing between the sellers of labor and the owners of real goods; i.e. the poor and the rich.

The fate of the owners of financial assets depends on the behavior of central banks. If we get severe inflation, they will also be wiped out and join the poor.

We are moving toward the peaking of global population, when human labor will be reduced by oversupply to its lowest value versus land, commodities, water, oil and other real assets.

Meanwhile, whether financial assets (stocks, bonds, bank loands) will retain their value depends on how severe inflation becomes. Major central banks are oversupplying money in a "undervaluation competition." No one wants their currency to get too high, every wants low interest rates. The value of money is being debased.

However, constantly falling real wages counteract this trend and may prevent all-out inflation from developing.

Many Americans think inflation and a falling dollar is the easy way to reduce the real burden of our accumulated debt. However, we must remember that there are two conflicting forces acting in opposite ways on inflation. One: the value of labor, as wages, are under constant, global, downward pressure due to "globalization;" this prevents the cycle of inflation from getting underway and has allowed excessive monetary ease to continue without triggering general price inflation for a very long time. The excess money has gone instead into asset bubbles.

Two: The value of real assets -- land, buildings, oil, commodities, minerals, oil -- is being pushed up by scarcity.

We could get inflation without wage increases. That is, everything goes up except wages.

In 25 years, much of America will be living as Mexico and Brazil live now. A small elite of people who have acquired control of real assets -- hard materials which people need -- will be very very rich.

The only way to dampen this trend is to reduce population growth globally and to insulate ourselves from economies where population growth is high or where wages are extremely low now due to high population densities and underutilized labor.

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Wages down, materials costs up, continued from above
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Posted by: janvdb on Oct 5, 2005 10:00 AM   
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We can insulate ourselves from these economies with an excellent labor force, international labor standards and trade barriers,which will prevent millions of the extremely poor from competing with us and will lock them into their poverty (which may be where they have to be until they can reduce population growth.)

Or, we could do the unthinkable and institute large transfers of wealth from the very very rich who will develop -- those who control oil, land, commodities -- to the poor.

Dream on.

This scenario does, note, put Middle Eastern elites into the realms of the very very rich -- unless we can find a substitute for the commodity which they largely control.

I'm not convinced that anyone has devised a good system for transfering wealth from that clique of the very very rich to the very poor.

I don't think we are headed short-term for a severe recession; I think we will have a combination of rising goods prices and falling wages which will cause poverty for many without actually slowing the overall economy. Those who control real assets will prosper, spend money and keep GNP going.

Think: concrete, gas and construction materials UP. If you own a lot of that, you get to hire a gardener and a nanny.

If the Fed tries to keep interest rates too low and allows too much monetary expansion, we will get stag-flation. That would destroy the value of stock, bonds and bank loans. That would entail very high interest rates and cause local real estate price collapses, but the most important commodities in the world are, afterall, land and fresh water.

If inflation kills a bunch of banks, we could have a severe depression. But it's not inevitable.

Jan VanDenBerg

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Killing the goose that lays the golden eggs
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Posted by: shangrilalad on Oct 5, 2005 10:39 AM   
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Many Americans still idolize and consider the rich our “best and brightest,” imagining they know what they are doing. Problem is, they don’t know what they are doing. No one who understands how our consumer driven society works would totally ignore the common good for their own exclusive self-interest.

The prerequisite for a consumer society are consumers with enough expendable income to spend on consumer items. When most consumers’ incomes are eaten up paying for basic necessities-food, rent, utilities, insurance and gas-consumerism and the economy will crash. That’s common sense.

Trickle down (which was a fallacious rip-off in the first place) has failed to trickle down, and the opposite has taken place. We’ve had twenty-five years of wealth being sucked-up and delivered into the hands of the richest top 10% of the population. Don’t these fools realize they are killing the goose that lays the golden eggs?

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This Recession a Whopper!
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Posted by: worksg on Oct 5, 2005 11:23 AM   
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There is another factor that magnifies all the distressing economic trends noted above. Cheap oil (and natural gas) is running out. That doesn't just mean that prices will keep going up. It also means that there will be less each year than the year before. Less resources to consume means a shrinking, not a growing, GDP. This is the definition of a recession. Quite soon, the recession will become permanent, at least for several decades. For details, see Matthew Simmons "Twilight in the Desert", Ken Deffeyes "Hubbert's Peak", or James Kunstler "The Long Emergency."

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Chabuka
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Posted by: chabuka on Oct 5, 2005 11:31 AM   
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I suggest that "they" knew this was on the horizon, hence the "new" Bankruptcy Laws....more corporate fascism

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Hitting Rock Bottom
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Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Oct 5, 2005 3:29 PM   
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An actor-wrestler who goes by "The Rock" is widely known by his signature move called the "Rock Bottom"- a move where he body slams his opponent to the mat for a pin.
If his painful move could be applied to some debt-ridden Americans, many of us would be sent to a hospital by now-if you have health insurance, but when you're in debt and can't pay your bills, you've practically hit rock bottom.
And as people debate whether to file for bankruptcy or pay the minimum balance, they are already locked in on this hold where there's no escape. And it's not a long way down to the mat but far enough to cause spinal damage.
How can we prevent hitting rock bottom? I know people fall ill, or a death to the breadwinner occurs, but we have to find a way to wean ourselves from credit cards.
It took me six years to pay off six credit cards. I had to learn the hard way about what constituted "good" debt compared to "bad" debt. It was very tough and caused a lot of sleepless nights and being broke a lot, living from check to check, but I have no one to blame but myself.
Lots of us are experiencing this sad tale. My reasons were illness, high medical bills, paying for college and financing a car.
After awhile I was in the hole, and having two part-time jobs wasn't working. I fell in deeper and deeper. I was miserable.
I wish those who are in debt can file before Oct. 17 I think, before the new bankruptcy legislation begins. Otherwise it's awfully hard to get up after you've been economically body slammed.

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Pondering The New Millennium
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Posted by: Spyder on Oct 5, 2005 3:35 PM   
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Yesterday's topics at AlterNet were the second-best this website has posted. Today's are the best. I have read many things today that have become staples in my rage against the machine for many years. (1) Yes, we are strangling the golden goose when we destroy the jobs of the middle class. I have been using the golden goose analogy for at least a decade. (2) Yes, this is a lot bigger than just credit card debt. The world's banks are nothing but a house of cards waiting to come tumbling down. (3) Yes, if the cheap electronic pacifiers sold at Wally-World were to suddenly become more expensive because the Chinese pulled off some sort of trade power play, or the debt crisis or the dollar value intervened, all hell would break loose. $39 DVD players and widescreen TV's are the only things separating us from consumerism chaos. (4) The demographics and logistics of our exploding metro sprawl, not to mention the SUV madness, will make us susceptible to even a hiccup in the oil price and supply to a level that is unfathomable to the average U.S. consumer/citizen.

http://e-tabitha.com/WakeUp.htm

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Okay okay...I got a list
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Posted by: Michiganman on Oct 5, 2005 5:18 PM   
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OK I got that old y2k list of stuff we might need for just such an emergency situation. Let's see.....ah..flashlight,check........ah..dried out food,check.......mmm......bottled water,check.....and...cash on hand,ah...hmmm....awww...crap we're screwed....DOAH!!!!

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panguy
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Posted by: panguy on Oct 5, 2005 6:55 PM   
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I knew we were fucked when NAFTA passed, it doesn't take a lot of math to know if we open the labor market to the world that we will in a matter of years be working for the world wide minium wage. Raw capitalism makes slaves of the people. The supreme court fucked us back in the 1800's when it gave corps the same rights as an indivigal citizen,don't tell me them bastards weren't owned by the same bastards that own the govt today. We (us who work for a living) were blessed for a while to have real govt and we did real good. Now we have bush and the corp elete and the people who are hurt worst by them are supporting them because of abortion and gay mararige issues,funny how people will fuck themselves and feel good about it. I am 57, straight and a non-religious person. I just can't understand how so many people can allow themselves to be so mislead.

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» RE: panguy Posted by: John Rice

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It Is About Time
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Posted by: davidt on Oct 5, 2005 10:27 PM   
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These comments are just great! Long overdue, maybe this is a sign of a "I am mad as hell, and I am not going to take it anymore!" One can only hope.

1. Faith, I just hope you didn't vote for Bush, I feel a tremendous empathy for you because you played by the rules and still got hit by the wrecking ball. I now am sending you a hug and I hope you can feel it.

2. There was only one place where I heard about the Medicare Bill, Credit Card usury, a sleaze-puppy called Tom DeLay, Dr Elizabeth Warren and that was Bill Moyers NOW on PBS. The Bush Regime took care of Bill--he retired last January, but he can still be seen on Wide Angle. Now they have installed two Bushites on the board of CPB so they can make sure and schizoidize the truth to the unknowing and keep them unknowing.

3. Get this book--Perfectly Legal by David Cay Johnston and read anything by Paul Krugman.

4. The Federal Reserve Bank is NOT a government entity but a privately owned banking syndicate.

5. Peak Oil is when an oil source decreases in profitability due to quality, quantity or difficulty to extract. The US reached PO in 1977, Saudi Arabia peaked THIS year. The Caspian Basin was a bust for the above reasons--BP has pulled out and gone home. New Saudi truisim: My father rode on a camel, I ride in a car, my son rides in an airplane, his son will ride on a camel.

6. Stock up on thermal underwear, start reading food labels--watch the sugar, salt, fat & transfat{anything that says hydrogenated, it is extra grease to make foods stay moist but it doesn't dissolve and clogs the arteries}drive at 50 mph, forget Brand names & buy generic, insulate your windows from the inside (dirt cheap and saves a bundle) turn off unused electrical appliances--50% of oil production goes for electricity.

7. 2006 is it, our last chance for any help from DC, we have got to get those craven corporate crooks out of the House--they are robbing us blind and the born-agains--D & R--are some of the worst, densest, most ignorant morons ever to come out of the oven and should be roasted on a spit to help keep us warm.

8. The United States will probably change to the States United like old geography days.

9. The Beginning/End=Reagan II. An orangutang in a tux, now we are in R III only he wears a cowboy hat.

Good news! There are many more of US than THEM!

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» RE: It Is About Time Posted by: FAITHCARR

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Gas at European levels? Hardly!
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Posted by: oldsmobile on Oct 6, 2005 2:18 AM   
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. It comes just as gasoline prices reach European levels,

Actually, US prices are still about a third of what they are in Europe right now, and still about half of the late 90's, early 2000's levels, so stop your whining.

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» Your happy with gas prices Olds? Posted by: Michiganman

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Recession Hell I want a Depression!
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Posted by: Commie_Ricko on Oct 6, 2005 11:53 AM   
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Recessions only hurt the poor rube on the street, those of us on retirement, underpaid or unemployed the only majority now living in America. The billionaires and millionaires could give a shit about a recession. I want a full blown depression where the rich jump out of their office buildings and splatter on the street! I bet we will be able to see that too on some Internet site. I can hardly wait. Now, when this super depression is over and the question of how we will reconstruct if the rube wants capitalism again he deserves all the despair it will give him! I want socialism and a communist leader who has the people in mind when he or she rules not like this SOB named Bush, the leader worse than Hitler!

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Dubya Did It?
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Posted by: RealityCheck on Oct 9, 2005 11:21 PM   
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Let me get this straight. The Prez lent 40 million people money on their credit cards that they couldn't pay back? And he lent trillions of dollars to real estate investors/speculators to create a housing bubble? I mean, I know that everyone agrees that W's a bad dude and the world would be much better off if Saddam and his crazy boys were still running amok with billions of walkin' around money to blow, not on WMDs but fun things like rape palaces and suicide bombers, but could W the man have been so financially astute to create this wild drunkin' spending party we've been on for the past 5 years?

Seems to me the term "whipping boy" applies to this scenario

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» Dubya shares the guilt Posted by: LeonDion

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semi prophets or doomsayers?
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Posted by: andy on Oct 10, 2005 1:44 AM   
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I hope you people are all educated and not just doomsayers, as i am going to alter some very important life issues as a direct result of this article and subsequent threads. Keep up the good work people.

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Joe
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Posted by: jocoshow on Oct 11, 2005 3:51 PM   
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The housing market is not a bubble. You can't live inside a share of yahoo nor can you sell a house with a keystroke. Housing will always accrue value although at not the pace we have become accustomed to. A correction is due. It seems to me that many progressives are perpetually unhappy to see folks make a few bucks in a rising market and take a vacation. Get over it. Not all of us want to rent a bungalow on the edge of town, drive a 1986 Honda Civic and blog by candlelight.

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Call to action. Stop the Republican Party.
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Posted by: maximus on Oct 11, 2005 5:48 PM   
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Call to action. Stop the Republican Party.

http://tinyurl.com/8ghl8

http://tinyurl.com/b97vk

Where Republicans tread, innocent people end up dead.

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yoora
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Posted by: kladyc on Feb 13, 2007 1:32 PM   
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yoora
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Posted by: kladyc on Feb 13, 2007 1:33 PM   
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Alternet Comments:

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drew
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Posted by: drew on Oct 5, 2005 2:22 AM   
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one has to hope that it is only a recession. I wonder why the opposition in congress has not given effective consistent and persistent voice to the obvious economic future dictated by the both public and private borrowing and the national deficit. They are responsible by their silence if not, as the majority, by their actions. Voices for tax fairness will have to be raised- fairness that demands that those who benefit disproportionally should pay their fair share.

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» RE: drew Posted by: ShaSpirit
» RE: drew Posted by: LG

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Not just Dubya's fault.
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Posted by: SteveO on Oct 5, 2005 4:28 AM   
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This goes back to the losening of credit card requiremnts back during Regan's era (error). Since then, every idiot and their brother has been able to issue credit cards and send them to people who have no hope of ever getting ahead.

When Regan was running the first time, he promised he would not allow the decline of the American way of life while he was president. So what do they do?(Congress and the Fed were in on this) They set it up so everyone could barrow and spend just like the fedral government!

Anyway, my point is that we have been going down this path for 25 years and for once we can't blame it all on bad prince George and his merry band of thieves.

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» RE: Not just Dubya's fault. Posted by: jazzyjer

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Faith Carr
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Posted by: FAITHCARR on Oct 5, 2005 4:53 AM   
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This is exactly what happened to my family. One $24K a year job loss, put us in a downward spiral. To the rest of the American Citizenry.... Welcome to my World. Lost the house, rent a trailer, lost the health insurance, fell into kidney failure, lost the savings, lost the stock options. Pawn the jewlery every month to buy the gas to get our only remaining wage earner to work(from 38K to 20K in one months time). Have become familiar with the pay day advance people to keep groceries in the cupboard. Welcome to the new America.

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» RE: Faith Carr Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Faith Carr Posted by: djcrow22
» RE: Faith Carr Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Faith Carr.. Posted by: Ely Whitney
» RE: Faith Carr Posted by: badkitty
» RE: Faith Carr Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» RE: Faith Carr Posted by: woodford54

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opposition?
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Posted by: roygib on Oct 5, 2005 5:43 AM   
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Opposition? There is an opposition party in congress?

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» RE: opposition? Posted by: mwildfire
» what opposition? Posted by: jwg
» APPOSITION Posted by: LMNOP
» Republicrats...it's true Posted by: Michiganman

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Quagmire-not just home "owners"
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Posted by: fedupamerican on Oct 5, 2005 6:19 AM   
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The quagmire of income vs. rental cost ...

For those who cannot afford to buy a home, renting is the option.
Rents in my small N. MS town have skyrocketed thanks to the land-rush for condo building and faux-New Orleans, Savannah and Loft style housing, (which says something in itself- but what -I haven't quite figured out)...and housing for (of all things) "football weekends!" Some here are renting out their own homes for football weekends for $1,000!!!

Here, bulldozing and building is realtor/investor driven. We've even had a realtor guy from Florida MOVE here to set up a REAL ESTATE OFFICE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE BUILDING BOOM he had HEARD about!!!

The gentry is moving in and pushing the common folks out of the city-proper. We have had an ongoing and subtle post-Katrina 9th ward mentality here for the past 3 years. Though most of us right in town are white, we are the common folk who work at low paying jobs while housing costs average around $300,000 and rents average (2 or 3 bedroom) $1,000!!! We have notorious slumlords who are themselves wealthy yet refuse to keep the grass cut and the plumbing working on their rental properties. One of them is so cheap, they painted the visible sides of the house but left the other sides unpainted because they were hidden from the public. The left side sits right by a small hill w/hedges & trees to "hide" the ugly old orange paint while the front is painted a fresh new color. That's the mentality that helps fill the quagmire!

Relative to the bubble pop & other "tragic" happenings about to hit the "upper crust" --
Welcome to my world. No health insurance, not enough food in the house, not enough cash in your purse for food, gas, & medicine--let me see--what do I need the most--oops, the car just quit on me--do I try to repair it or pay my rent?? And when you fill out your tax return, you can laugh at the ridiculous $34.00 you get back because you didn't make enough and don't own enough to have write-offs!

Have those questions to answer for yourself for once, i.e.
Reality Check. Hope you become hand-to-mouth and come to your senses... find out what's REAL about life. You've bought yourself "happiness" and "success" to show off to your peers, and that ain't what it's all about people!!

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agitator church and state
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Posted by: eileenflmng on Oct 5, 2005 6:21 AM   
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"What do we know?"

Do we know that the American economy is based on consumerism and that our largest industry is the Industrial Military Complex?

Consuming is a narcotic for many: people shop not because they have a need, but because they are bored and empty within.
Many attempt to fill their inner emptiness up with 'things' that will never, can never satisfy a hunger for deep meaning and true life.

Eisenhower warned us in his farewell speech to BEWARE the Industrial Military Complex.
Like most prophets he was ignored.

We can spend our life blaming the goverment, but we the people are the only one's who can LOOK within our own hearts, think our own thoughts and choose to DO SOMETHING to change course.

www.wearewideawake.org

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the little breeze to anounce the storm???
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Posted by: Ely Whitney on Oct 5, 2005 6:24 AM   
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Faithcarr I feel for you, and you are correct you will not be alone in this plight. Soon you will have many neighbors in this. There are millions of american households in the same predicament that you have undergone, its just that they have not arrived to that crumble point yet.

I feel for you in that you have honored your part of the contract, you held, at one time two jobs, paid your share of taxes for a number of years and unwittingly but planned, bought into the AMERICAN DREAM as sponsored by the corporate entities that control the governments, and yes all governments Repub and Dems, are to share this situation, however it is the present administration that fast tracked what I call the inevitable... economic demise.

This is just a begininning, a story the govt is not telling the population of how the public purse has been purged of finances to the benefit of a few billionaires, who in the end could care less if you and your family freeze this winter. Theirs is about making huge profits and that is exactly what they have done.

There are signs, as indicated above with CC companies raising the minimums in hopes of recouping what extended credit they can before a crash. When the full effect of increased fuel prices is really felt, when retailers have drops in sales and have to put employees on the street, when products are no longer being consumed and more people are put on the street, when people can no longer honor their debt repsonisibility, the storm will have hit. Bankruptcy law or not, if you have no money your personal items have long gone to pay for everyday necessities it won´t matter if they call you bankrupt, you cannot get blood from a stone.

is this the breeze to anounce that storm?

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oldgringo
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Posted by: oldgringo on Oct 5, 2005 7:23 AM   
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Soooo...Now we come to the moment when ALL the rest of us, aka "the great unwashed", get to take a bath in the reality of financial catastrophe.
DO NOT EXPECT ANYTHING SO SUNDAY SCHOOL ACCEPTABLE AS A MERE "RECESSION"! What is coming will make the"Great Depression" of the last century look like a cake walk, so all who have placed their "faith" in the hands of the "compassionate "Christian" leadership that is now running this country into total destitution of the "lower classes" will now get to enjoy the fruits of the "Bush Family" and their well known concern for "those others"....
Slave chains, anyone?

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» RE: oldgringo Posted by: Kitty Lady Oregon
» RE: oldgringo Posted by: philame

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BURN THE CHURCHES !!!!
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Posted by: Kevin R. Hoskins on Oct 5, 2005 7:51 AM   
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When the crash comes, do you think the masses will finally rise up in revolt against the fascist oligarchy that we have all been brainwashed since kindergarten to accept as democracy? It's about time! And, hopefully, while they are at it they will destroy the sham churches that help perpetrate the system that continues to hold them in economic bondage. Something must change !!!!

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» A REAL CLASS WAR NOW Posted by: fairleft

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woops! ...
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Posted by: fedupamerican on Oct 5, 2005 8:34 AM   
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there goes
another
mega church
down...

ya think???

those are the ones that make me ill to the bone!!!

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People have always had bill trouble
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Oct 5, 2005 8:51 AM   
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Yes sometime the firstsign of a ression is when bills for the home start not at all paid. But the 'real' trigger for a resession is the value of the money system is
tragically low, wages don't keep pace with the cost of living and the products, services offered are greatly over valued out of touch with economic realtiy. Here's a real life example. I know a custom home builder.
These homes are'nt customized for accessability or special
needs,they're just a little better than the suburban home. Man hours and materials on these over-sized energy drains runs 85-125,000 dollars add $25,000 for the lot, this house 'should' cost $200,000 allowing for modest profit. In reality these homes cost $700,000.In areas where little neighborhoods of these ego shacks are they run closer to a million dollars and more. Over valued,energy wasteing,soon to be Eminante Domained into the next Corpie Country Club. When I was a kid a dollar was a dollar,a big jar of mayo was .59,gas was .32 a gallon,bread was 4 for a dollar. Today's dollar spends like 12 cents. That's why gas is $3.00 a gallon, bread almost $2
a loaf,stocks over $10,000,a good car is$50,000 and the mileage sucks.All over valued. Why? Because the greedy pull as much wealth out of the System they can which forces the cost of everything up,the buying power goes down, the eventualities of resession and dispair with their cousins substance abuse and war.According to my father in law things have always been priced out of reach of the average American. Grampa says when Henry Ford said he'd make a car that a felloow that made a 'good wage' could afford he did'nt mean the factory workers of the day.Great Grampa told me there were these groups of people that had gotten together when he was first born that were calling themselves Corperations.That they were people with alot of money that were trying to devise ways to aquire as much money as they could on the backs of as many people that they could. He said his parents were'nt worried because there was a new group of folks that were going to keep these Corpies in check and they were called the Republicans. They sold out pretty quick. Resession only hurts the rich. As to middle and low income families, go ahead stop paying those bills,buying new or newer cars,the next big game system,T.V. can opener,whatever.It's by accepting the mass marketing crap that helps make the mess we're in.

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Consumerism vs Sustainability
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Posted by: StuartH on Oct 5, 2005 8:52 AM   
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In 1989, there was a recession, leading up to the election of 1990 when Clinton beat Bush.

Husbands and wives, middle class, working people were under great stress. Meanwhile, stockbrokers saw that situation as simply another part of the business cycle and foresaw no problems ahead.

The underlying issues are beyond the seasonal or cyclical usual business.

Since Reagan and the inception of the Supply Side movement, we have been careening slowly into a deep imbalance.

Actually it goes back further than that. The boom times of the 1950s were created by the quarterback play of the late 1940s when Madison Avenue became part of the effort to create a consumer economy based on changing the thrift psychology of GIs returning from the war who had also survived the Depression and were into saving money.

Since then, the American economy has led the whole human race pretty much into a consumption based vision of how the world works.

Unfortunately, when people figure out that a lot of what they spend money on isn't necessary, this can put a major crimp in the growth that the consumer economy depends on.

So then what? We don't have another trick in the national bag of tricks. The national media won't touch this big picture issue with a ten foot pole held by a mailroom temp while the rest of the company watches from 20 stories up through binoculars.

A paradigm shift of major proportions is in the works, which will be denied, resisted, or lied about by anyone advantaged by the corporate view of the status quo. People will continue to buy mega-yachts.

A long term approach that is sustainable and which is in a more proper balance for the larger membership of the human race will be small scale, decentralized, and discovered by individuals and their neighbors and communities. Whether there is a recession or not, or something else, this should be the work of the 21st century: discovering what sustainability means locally.

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» RE: Consumerism vs Sustainability Posted by: robmikejas

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Deflation
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Oct 5, 2005 8:58 AM   
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Our economy has been in a deflationary cycle for quite some time now. Between the political hat-dances in Washington and elsewhere Joe & Jane don't know it yet. All that's been done by consumers, banks and the government the last number of years is "eating our seed corn". The bill is coming due- one way or another.

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Faith Carr
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Posted by: woodford54 on Oct 5, 2005 9:08 AM   
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I'm right there w/you, Faith. I'm a 50 year old single woman who just had to find another job -- quickly -- and ended up w/one that pays $15,000 less than the one I had, which brings me down to the same amount annually that I was making in my late twenties! I have the usual bills and I had open-heart surgery last year w/no sick time, hence no paycheck for six weeks. I fell behind on EVERYTHING and I'm still behind. I never thought at this age I'd be in this financial position. It really sucks! I thought it was so funny the other day I was behind this rundown, filthy pick-up truck w/a Bush/Cheney sticker. Some people will never, ever, ever learn. Bush is without a doubt the worst "thing" that has ever happened to the US. No contest. Good luck to you, Faith.

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Faith Carr
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Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale on Oct 5, 2005 9:15 AM   
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Faith Carr, I sympathize with you 100%. I am an attorney who attended a continuing ed on bankruptcy law last year. One speaker was Dr. Elizabeth Warren of Harvard. She has a book called "The Two Income Trap". She studied statistics on bankruptcy spanning 20 years. Your story falls squarely into her conclusions. Her study showed that the top reason for Chapter 7 bankruptcy filings is the loss of one job/income in a two-earner household. The second reason for filing is due to staggering medical bills because an individual is either uninsured or underinsured. And remember, Chapter 7 filings will become much more difficult after October 17th, thanks to the success of the predatory lenders in bribing our officials in Washington to vote on a bill that does away with "fresh start" for the average American and squarely enriches the lenders. Screw the neocons with their incessant drumbeat that bankrupt Americans are silly individuals who cannot control their spending. And shame on every Democratic legislator who voted to support this terrible bill. Another nail in our coffin.

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This is not a recession
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Posted by: rlavelle on Oct 5, 2005 9:18 AM   
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Hate to be the doomsayer folks, but this ain't no cyclical recession. The leading derivative banks are totally bankrupt, and their little pet hedge funds are right now gaming the oil markets to bail out the huge losses they made earlier this year on GM based credit derivatives.

There are unknown quadrillions of outstanding derivatives, which banks now count as balance sheet items. Forget about credit card debt. This DWARFS any financial bubble in the known history of civilization.

This hyperinflationary wall of fictitious electronic funny money is about to collapse, and take down the entire GLOBAL monetary-financial system, central banks and all.

The dems are silent because although the leadership knows rationally full well what is coming, they are still in hysterical denial just like all their fellow market addicted baby boomers out there - and are pondering what course of action to take in the desperate hope that it isn't true.

The only way out is Senate action to put the Fed/IMF system through bankrupcty reorganization and return to national banking. But first, we need to get Bush & Cheney out of the way...

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Real goods up, labor and money down, with stagflation
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Posted by: janvdb on Oct 5, 2005 9:53 AM   
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The human race is dividing between the sellers of labor and the owners of real goods; i.e. the poor and the rich.

The fate of the owners of financial assets depends on the behavior of central banks. If we get severe inflation, they will also be wiped out and join the poor.

We are moving toward the peaking of global population, when human labor will be reduced by oversupply to its lowest value versus land, commodities, water, oil and other real assets.

Meanwhile, whether financial assets (stocks, bonds, bank loands) will retain their value depends on how severe inflation becomes. Major central banks are oversupplying money in a "undervaluation competition." No one wants their currency to get too high, every wants low interest rates. The value of money is being debased.

However, constantly falling real wages counteract this trend and may prevent all-out inflation from developing.

Many Americans think inflation and a falling dollar is the easy way to reduce the real burden of our accumulated debt. However, we must remember that there are two conflicting forces acting in opposite ways on inflation. One: the value of labor, as wages, are under constant, global, downward pressure due to "globalization;" this prevents the cycle of inflation from getting underway and has allowed excessive monetary ease to continue without triggering general price inflation for a very long time. The excess money has gone instead into asset bubbles.

Two: The value of real assets -- land, buildings, oil, commodities, minerals, oil -- is being pushed up by scarcity.

We could get inflation without wage increases. That is, everything goes up except wages.

In 25 years, much of America will be living as Mexico and Brazil live now. A small elite of people who have acquired control of real assets -- hard materials which people need -- will be very very rich.

The only way to dampen this trend is to reduce population growth globally and to insulate ourselves from economies where population growth is high or where wages are extremely low now due to high population densities and underutilized labor.

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Wages down, materials costs up, continued from above
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Posted by: janvdb on Oct 5, 2005 10:00 AM   
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We can insulate ourselves from these economies with an excellent labor force, international labor standards and trade barriers,which will prevent millions of the extremely poor from competing with us and will lock them into their poverty (which may be where they have to be until they can reduce population growth.)

Or, we could do the unthinkable and institute large transfers of wealth from the very very rich who will develop -- those who control oil, land, commodities -- to the poor.

Dream on.

This scenario does, note, put Middle Eastern elites into the realms of the very very rich -- unless we can find a substitute for the commodity which they largely control.

I'm not convinced that anyone has devised a good system for transfering wealth from that clique of the very very rich to the very poor.

I don't think we are headed short-term for a severe recession; I think we will have a combination of rising goods prices and falling wages which will cause poverty for many without actually slowing the overall economy. Those who control real assets will prosper, spend money and keep GNP going.

Think: concrete, gas and construction materials UP. If you own a lot of that, you get to hire a gardener and a nanny.

If the Fed tries to keep interest rates too low and allows too much monetary expansion, we will get stag-flation. That would destroy the value of stock, bonds and bank loans. That would entail very high interest rates and cause local real estate price collapses, but the most important commodities in the world are, afterall, land and fresh water.

If inflation kills a bunch of banks, we could have a severe depression. But it's not inevitable.

Jan VanDenBerg

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Killing the goose that lays the golden eggs
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Posted by: shangrilalad on Oct 5, 2005 10:39 AM   
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Many Americans still idolize and consider the rich our “best and brightest,” imagining they know what they are doing. Problem is, they don’t know what they are doing. No one who understands how our consumer driven society works would totally ignore the common good for their own exclusive self-interest.

The prerequisite for a consumer society are consumers with enough expendable income to spend on consumer items. When most consumers’ incomes are eaten up paying for basic necessities-food, rent, utilities, insurance and gas-consumerism and the economy will crash. That’s common sense.

Trickle down (which was a fallacious rip-off in the first place) has failed to trickle down, and the opposite has taken place. We’ve had twenty-five years of wealth being sucked-up and delivered into the hands of the richest top 10% of the population. Don’t these fools realize they are killing the goose that lays the golden eggs?

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This Recession a Whopper!
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Posted by: worksg on Oct 5, 2005 11:23 AM   
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There is another factor that magnifies all the distressing economic trends noted above. Cheap oil (and natural gas) is running out. That doesn't just mean that prices will keep going up. It also means that there will be less each year than the year before. Less resources to consume means a shrinking, not a growing, GDP. This is the definition of a recession. Quite soon, the recession will become permanent, at least for several decades. For details, see Matthew Simmons "Twilight in the Desert", Ken Deffeyes "Hubbert's Peak", or James Kunstler "The Long Emergency."

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Chabuka
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Posted by: chabuka on Oct 5, 2005 11:31 AM   
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I suggest that "they" knew this was on the horizon, hence the "new" Bankruptcy Laws....more corporate fascism

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Hitting Rock Bottom
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Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Oct 5, 2005 3:29 PM   
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An actor-wrestler who goes by "The Rock" is widely known by his signature move called the "Rock Bottom"- a move where he body slams his opponent to the mat for a pin.
If his painful move could be applied to some debt-ridden Americans, many of us would be sent to a hospital by now-if you have health insurance, but when you're in debt and can't pay your bills, you've practically hit rock bottom.
And as people debate whether to file for bankruptcy or pay the minimum balance, they are already locked in on this hold where there's no escape. And it's not a long way down to the mat but far enough to cause spinal damage.
How can we prevent hitting rock bottom? I know people fall ill, or a death to the breadwinner occurs, but we have to find a way to wean ourselves from credit cards.
It took me six years to pay off six credit cards. I had to learn the hard way about what constituted "good" debt compared to "bad" debt. It was very tough and caused a lot of sleepless nights and being broke a lot, living from check to check, but I have no one to blame but myself.
Lots of us are experiencing this sad tale. My reasons were illness, high medical bills, paying for college and financing a car.
After awhile I was in the hole, and having two part-time jobs wasn't working. I fell in deeper and deeper. I was miserable.
I wish those who are in debt can file before Oct. 17 I think, before the new bankruptcy legislation begins. Otherwise it's awfully hard to get up after you've been economically body slammed.

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Pondering The New Millennium
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Posted by: Spyder on Oct 5, 2005 3:35 PM   
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Yesterday's topics at AlterNet were the second-best this website has posted. Today's are the best. I have read many things today that have become staples in my rage against the machine for many years. (1) Yes, we are strangling the golden goose when we destroy the jobs of the middle class. I have been using the golden goose analogy for at least a decade. (2) Yes, this is a lot bigger than just credit card debt. The world's banks are nothing but a house of cards waiting to come tumbling down. (3) Yes, if the cheap electronic pacifiers sold at Wally-World were to suddenly become more expensive because the Chinese pulled off some sort of trade power play, or the debt crisis or the dollar value intervened, all hell would break loose. $39 DVD players and widescreen TV's are the only things separating us from consumerism chaos. (4) The demographics and logistics of our exploding metro sprawl, not to mention the SUV madness, will make us susceptible to even a hiccup in the oil price and supply to a level that is unfathomable to the average U.S. consumer/citizen.

http://e-tabitha.com/WakeUp.htm

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Okay okay...I got a list
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Posted by: Michiganman on Oct 5, 2005 5:18 PM   
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OK I got that old y2k list of stuff we might need for just such an emergency situation. Let's see.....ah..flashlight,check........ah..dried out food,check.......mmm......bottled water,check.....and...cash on hand,ah...hmmm....awww...crap we're screwed....DOAH!!!!

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panguy
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Posted by: panguy on Oct 5, 2005 6:55 PM   
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I knew we were fucked when NAFTA passed, it doesn't take a lot of math to know if we open the labor market to the world that we will in a matter of years be working for the world wide minium wage. Raw capitalism makes slaves of the people. The supreme court fucked us back in the 1800's when it gave corps the same rights as an indivigal citizen,don't tell me them bastards weren't owned by the same bastards that own the govt today. We (us who work for a living) were blessed for a while to have real govt and we did real good. Now we have bush and the corp elete and the people who are hurt worst by them are supporting them because of abortion and gay mararige issues,funny how people will fuck themselves and feel good about it. I am 57, straight and a non-religious person. I just can't understand how so many people can allow themselves to be so mislead.

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» RE: panguy Posted by: John Rice

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It Is About Time
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Posted by: davidt on Oct 5, 2005 10:27 PM   
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These comments are just great! Long overdue, maybe this is a sign of a "I am mad as hell, and I am not going to take it anymore!" One can only hope.

1. Faith, I just hope you didn't vote for Bush, I feel a tremendous empathy for you because you played by the rules and still got hit by the wrecking ball. I now am sending you a hug and I hope you can feel it.

2. There was only one place where I heard about the Medicare Bill, Credit Card usury, a sleaze-puppy called Tom DeLay, Dr Elizabeth Warren and that was Bill Moyers NOW on PBS. The Bush Regime took care of Bill--he retired last January, but he can still be seen on Wide Angle. Now they have installed two Bushites on the board of CPB so they can make sure and schizoidize the truth to the unknowing and keep them unknowing.

3. Get this book--Perfectly Legal by David Cay Johnston and read anything by Paul Krugman.

4. The Federal Reserve Bank is NOT a government entity but a privately owned banking syndicate.

5. Peak Oil is when an oil source decreases in profitability due to quality, quantity or difficulty to extract. The US reached PO in 1977, Saudi Arabia peaked THIS year. The Caspian Basin was a bust for the above reasons--BP has pulled out and gone home. New Saudi truisim: My father rode on a camel, I ride in a car, my son rides in an airplane, his son will ride on a camel.

6. Stock up on thermal underwear, start reading food labels--watch the sugar, salt, fat & transfat{anything that says hydrogenated, it is extra grease to make foods stay moist but it doesn't dissolve and clogs the arteries}drive at 50 mph, forget Brand names & buy generic, insulate your windows from the inside (dirt cheap and saves a bundle) turn off unused electrical appliances--50% of oil production goes for electricity.

7. 2006 is it, our last chance for any help from DC, we have got to get those craven corporate crooks out of the House--they are robbing us blind and the born-agains--D & R--are some of the worst, densest, most ignorant morons ever to come out of the oven and should be roasted on a spit to help keep us warm.

8. The United States will probably change to the States United like old geography days.

9. The Beginning/End=Reagan II. An orangutang in a tux, now we are in R III only he wears a cowboy hat.

Good news! There are many more of US than THEM!

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» RE: It Is About Time Posted by: FAITHCARR

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Gas at European levels? Hardly!
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Posted by: oldsmobile on Oct 6, 2005 2:18 AM   
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. It comes just as gasoline prices reach European levels,

Actually, US prices are still about a third of what they are in Europe right now, and still about half of the late 90's, early 2000's levels, so stop your whining.

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» Your happy with gas prices Olds? Posted by: Michiganman

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Recession Hell I want a Depression!
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Posted by: Commie_Ricko on Oct 6, 2005 11:53 AM   
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Recessions only hurt the poor rube on the street, those of us on retirement, underpaid or unemployed the only majority now living in America. The billionaires and millionaires could give a shit about a recession. I want a full blown depression where the rich jump out of their office buildings and splatter on the street! I bet we will be able to see that too on some Internet site. I can hardly wait. Now, when this super depression is over and the question of how we will reconstruct if the rube wants capitalism again he deserves all the despair it will give him! I want socialism and a communist leader who has the people in mind when he or she rules not like this SOB named Bush, the leader worse than Hitler!

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Dubya Did It?
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Posted by: RealityCheck on Oct 9, 2005 11:21 PM   
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Let me get this straight. The Prez lent 40 million people money on their credit cards that they couldn't pay back? And he lent trillions of dollars to real estate investors/speculators to create a housing bubble? I mean, I know that everyone agrees that W's a bad dude and the world would be much better off if Saddam and his crazy boys were still running amok with billions of walkin' around money to blow, not on WMDs but fun things like rape palaces and suicide bombers, but could W the man have been so financially astute to create this wild drunkin' spending party we've been on for the past 5 years?

Seems to me the term "whipping boy" applies to this scenario

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» Dubya shares the guilt Posted by: LeonDion

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semi prophets or doomsayers?
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Posted by: andy on Oct 10, 2005 1:44 AM   
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I hope you people are all educated and not just doomsayers, as i am going to alter some very important life issues as a direct result of this article and subsequent threads. Keep up the good work people.

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Joe
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Posted by: jocoshow on Oct 11, 2005 3:51 PM   
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The housing market is not a bubble. You can't live inside a share of yahoo nor can you sell a house with a keystroke. Housing will always accrue value although at not the pace we have become accustomed to. A correction is due. It seems to me that many progressives are perpetually unhappy to see folks make a few bucks in a rising market and take a vacation. Get over it. Not all of us want to rent a bungalow on the edge of town, drive a 1986 Honda Civic and blog by candlelight.

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Call to action. Stop the Republican Party.
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Posted by: maximus on Oct 11, 2005 5:48 PM   
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Call to action. Stop the Republican Party.

http://tinyurl.com/8ghl8

http://tinyurl.com/b97vk

Where Republicans tread, innocent people end up dead.

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yoora
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Posted by: kladyc on Feb 13, 2007 1:32 PM   
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yoora
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Posted by: kladyc on Feb 13, 2007 1:33 PM   
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