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Reaching the Tipping Point

By Robert Dreyfuss, TomPaine.com. Posted September 8, 2005.


With the last shreds of Bush's credibility blown away by Katrina, expect momentum against the president to grow with each further U.S. casualty in Iraq.
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September 2005 could go down in history as the month in which Iraq policy finally turned around. By all indications, members of Congress returning to Capitol Hill this week will come back having heard, loud and clear, from their constituents that it's time to end the war in Iraq, victory or no. And it's not just Democrats.

"I've been hearing from a lot of folks on the Hill, from Republicans, who are worried about Iraq," says a former senior state department official. "They're calling me to ask: How long can this go on?" And when members of Congress ask, "how long," they mean: "Can it go on like this until November 2006?"

Public opinion, which began shifting decisively against the Bush administration's Iraq police one year ago, now overwhelmingly favors getting out, and clear majorities now say that the war in Iraq wasn't worth fighting in the first place.

A stunning poll from CNN and USA Today released last week asked voters: "If you could talk with President George W. Bush for 15 minutes about the situation in Iraq, what would you, personally, advise him to do?" Far and away, the answer was: Out now. Forty-one percent picked: "Pull the troops out and come home. End it." Others picked more subtle variations on the same theme: "Come up with and execute a well-thought-out exit strategy" (6 percent); "Join in and work with the United Nations" (3 percent); and "Admit to past mistakes. Apologize" (3 percent), making a total of 53 percent opposed to Bush's stubborn, stick-it-out policy. Only 18 percent picked "Finish what we started," with scattered support for other stay-the-course options.

The mainstream media, while exhibiting a fascination with Cindy Sheehan's brave posture as an outspoken anti-war activist, has not yet caught up with public opinion, either. A Sept. 1 action alert from Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) took ABC News to task for its misleading interpretation of poll numbers, which it called "typical" for most media.

But the turn in public opinion is occurring not because the big media has turned against the war (they haven't), but because one by one, town by town, even in the red states, Americans are deciding that staying the course in Iraq is no longer worth the candle. And the most significant factor in the ongoing shift in opinion is the steady drumbeat of obituaries in middle America, as National Guard and reserve troops die fighting in Iraq.

John Warner, R.-Va., one of the Senate's old bulls is chairman of the Armed Services Committee, and no neoconservative. As first order of business, Warned has announced plans to drag Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld onto the carpet for hearings on the mess in Iraq. Significantly, Warner warned that public opinion on Iraq is approaching the "tipping point," after which support for the war in Iraq would no longer be sustainable. "The level of concern is, I think, gradually rising," he told The New York Times. "I don't see that the Congress is going to suddenly pull back like in the days of Vietnam. It is the desire of the Congress to continue to work with and support the administration. But there is always a tipping point."

With the last shreds of Bush's credibility as president blown away by Katrina, expect momentum against the president to grow with each further U.S. casualty in Iraq and with piece of bad news about the faltering political process there. During September, the newly muscled anti-war movement will stage rallies, lobby days, and demonstrations in Washington, and Representative Lynn Woolsey, D-Calif., plans to join with many other members of Congress to convene independent hearings on exiting Iraq on September 15. From September 24-26, United for Peace and Justice and other groups plan a Vietnam-style mobilization to demand U.S. withdrawal from Iraq. More than 60 members of Congress, including several Republicans, have signed on to the "Out of Iraq Caucus," which calls for the immediate development of an exit strategy.

It is, of course, still remarkable that so many Democratic politicians have yet to jump on the get-out-of-Iraq bandwagon that the public is driving down the highway. As former Sen. Gary Hart has noted, it is a sad commentary on the utter lack of conviction and sheer moral cowardice that has seized much of the Democratic Party.

My guess is that the Democrats are afraid to call for getting out of Iraq in case Iraq should magically stabilize or turn the corner sometime later this year or in 2006. Putting aside the fact that leaving Iraq is the right thing to do, it is far more likely that Iraq will get worse, moving closer to outright civil war, than it will get better.

In any case, Democratic politicians are, by and large, miles behind their constituents on the futility of the U.S. occupation of Iraq. Yet with more and more Republicans starting to question the most basic assumptions about the war, with well-publicized anti-war events planned for September, and with several dozen more American body bags likely to be shipped home to small cities and towns across the United States this month, even the most thick-headed Democrat is likely to get the message.

Digg!

Robert Dreyfuss is a freelance writer based in Alexandria, Va., who specializes in politics and national security issues.

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Good morning, America. Did you have a nice sleep?
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 8, 2005 3:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Finally the people of this country are starting to wake up to the fact that their president, the man they foolishly sent to the White House - not once, but twice - has the IQ of a half-eaten box of Milk Duds. Now here's an understatement for you: This is a good thing.

For years, everytime a group of historians got together for a symposium of one sort or another, they always polled themselves. When the question is "who was the worst president in US History?" there is never a clear consensus. The answer always hovers between Grant, Harding, Buchanan and a couple of others with no clear winner. The next time that question is asked the answer will be unanimous: George W. Bush.

America is starting to pay attention. Better late than never, as they say. For the second time in a generation a half witted Texan has plunged his country into an unmanagable unwinnable war. For the second time in a generation, America is going to lose a war - and if you think we have any chance of winning this thing, you're dreaming. And, finally, for the second time in a generation, ordinary people like you and me are going to take to the streets in a demonstration of mass outrage.

See you at the White House on the 24th!

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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False Logic is implied in the downfall of Bush
Posted by: Commie_Ricko on Sep 8, 2005 5:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of Bush's detractors think things will improve once Bush is stopped in his tracks or impeached or runs out of time in the White House i.e. 2006 and some Democrat lacky takes charge things will improve. That is a joke. The basic economics will remain; Capitalism and that means every man and woman for himself to make as much money as they can scam off the backs of their consitituents. Well, nothing will change with a Democrat, the economics have to change and we need a new way to order things in government. Voting has always been a joke, dweedle dee or dweedle dumb and so the choice is made and we get what we deserve for paying our dues toward an economic system that does not include the working class. Something to jar your thinking folks!

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» I agree, I think Posted by: Olympiada
agitator church and state
Posted by: eileenflmng on Sep 8, 2005 6:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As an open minded Christian of The Beatitudes-who leans left- I am heart sick over this administrations propaganda and instillation of the Doctrine Of Fear to control and manipulate American citizens that war is the answer.

This administration implemented the Wolfowitz Doctine of empire, power and control that Bush 1 refused.

To promote the fallacy that "evil is all out there" while ignoring the fact that evil runs through every heart, is the height of arrogance and self-deception. We all battle with the forces of dark and light.

The most extreme form of terrorism is war.

Christ promised; "The peacemakers will be called the children of God."
www.wearewideawake.org

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» To Olympiada Posted by: nakis
» Ok nakis Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Ok nakis Posted by: nakis
» Oh Posted by: Olympiada
» Actually not drawn to it... Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: agitator church and state Posted by: BuckFush
Finally a "new reality" is being accepted! Well.... almost!
Posted by: Pepper on Sep 8, 2005 6:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What everyone now accepts is Bush's ignorance, lack of mental prowess and incompetence. What is not being accepted, as documented during this hurricane, is the malintent of him and his minions. (He is a puppet, but he is the head, so I use him instead of Cheney)

Please understand the following which means there should be millions calling for immediate impeachment, Nuremberg type trials for crimes against humanity and hanging:

1. The day after, The day after the levee broke, Wal Mart tried to deliver water & was turned away by FEMA. Many then died of dehydration. MURDER!

2. Red Cross was prevented by FEMA from delivering much needed supplies, food, and water. Many died of dehydration. MURDER!

3. 2 days after the levee broke, the Coast Guard delivered 1000 gallons of much needed fuel to Jefferson Parrish and called the leaders to come pick it up. When they got there, the Coast guard said they were instructed by FEMA not to deliver it. Thus no fuel to do rescue operations by the locals.
Hospitals then couldn't receive the fuel to continue their generators to keep the sick and ill alive. Many died! MURDER!

4. Locals from various surrounding Parrishs banned together and did a 50 boat floatilla into the bayou to conduct rescue operations the day after the levy broke. They were turned away by FEMA. Every person who died of drowning after that was MURDERED.

5. 4 DAYS AFTER THE LEVY BROKE..... 4 DAYS!!!!!.....
FEMA WENT INTO THE EMERGENCY BUILDING IN JEFFERSON PARRISH AND WITHOUT NOTICE OR ANY CONSULTATION WITH LOCAL AUTHORITIES "CUT THE EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS LINES". Intentionally cutting off all local law enforcement and rescue operations by local authorities. The Sheriff went in and reconnected the emergency communications and stationed an officer there by the lines and ordered "shoot to kill" if any FEMA person tried that again.
It was almost civil war.... locals against the feds. ATTEMPTED MURDER

I think you get the jist. Only the President of Jefferson Parrish used the word "MURDERED" and not one single liberal, no conservatives, no media, no one and I am tellling you this was an experiment and they murdered people by leaving them on their own. Its time for a real serious trial and real serious calls for it with the word "MURDER" USED CONTINUALLY. Capish??????

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» Ditto!!! Posted by: ~Fiona~
» RE: The transcript Posted by: duck-lady
» A Link (I hope...) Posted by: ~Fiona~
» Capish Posted by: Olympiada
» YES - SCREAM IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS! Posted by: humansfirst
"Where the Hell Are the Democrats?!"
Posted by: monkeywrench on Sep 8, 2005 8:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hope this author is right; but I fear that the combination of the Rove-generated media spin machine, government-intimidated media and an unbelievably gullible public will circumvent ANY attempt to spread the truth.

And WHERE THE HELL ARE THE DEMOCRATS?!! If the tables were turned, and it were Democrats committing the malfeasance, and the Republicans had no access to the public media, you can bet that Rove would have paid advertisements running 24/7 on every channel! Why haven't the Democrats taken advantage of the advertising medium? It sure worked to cut down smoking in California! Sometimes (actually, most of the time...) I feel like the Dem's are trying to maintain the Marcus of Queensbury rules in a street fight. Their continued silence is ennervating. Is the "fix" in between the two parties? I'm at a loss to explain the Dem's chickenshit lack of meaningful opposition any other way.

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» I have a Question... Posted by: ~Fiona~
» RE: I have a Question... Posted by: Ely Whitney
» I have Another Question... Posted by: ~Fiona~
» RE: I have Another Question... Posted by: Ely Whitney
If it truly were so...
Posted by: nakis on Sep 8, 2005 8:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that their policies will finally be seen in the light of truth.
I have my reservations due to the past events and how the teflon president has gotten away with murder and treason so far.

Hmmm,...."If you could talk with President George W. Bush for 15 minutes about the situation in Iraq, what would you, personally, advise him to do?"

Take all your right wing chickenhawks, grab a gun and fight against the insurgency in Iraq. In the least complete your service time that you skipped out on.

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The US Will Be In Iraq Until 2008
Posted by: showard99 on Sep 8, 2005 9:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Hailburton "reconstruction" contracts last for 5 years. That's how long the US troops will be in Iraq.

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» Right Now Posted by: Olympiada
» Good point, good point Posted by: Olympiada
Carpetbagger
Posted by: lzt on Sep 8, 2005 10:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He's a Carpetbagger in every sense of the slur. My family too has been in TX since the 1830's, one died at the Alamo, and I just cringe when folks say he's a Texan.

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» RE: Carpetbagger Posted by: xenacat
reparations??
Posted by: cbishopp on Sep 8, 2005 11:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree and support the idea of getting out of Iraq.
I have always considered it an impractical, dangerous, vindictive, greedy, and short sighted move by US policy makers.
Now that many more people want to pull out, including former George W. loyalists in the House and Senate, what happens to Iraq?
We have destroyed this country as well as Afganistan. We have reduced their infrastructure to rubble, stolen their money, hyjacked their oil, and now use their soil to grow poppies to fuel the drug trade and enslave many more.
Central, South America, and the Carribean all have seen similiar devastation and the world will not take much more.
To sit in this country with as much as we have and to watch people suffer under the crushing weight of our ignorance and self serving will most certainly be the death of us.
True survival will be our ability to work with foreign nations not destroy them.
With Katrina and Iraq's daily death toll rising it's time to see the truth and put these robber barons in jail.

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no longer worth the candle
Posted by: Olympiada on Sep 8, 2005 11:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Interesting phrase, could not find a meaning for it.

Well, I find this article had hope, humor, and truth in it. I hope to God we get out now of Iraq. I would be quite happy to see that happen. If so, then Katrina will have served some purpose, to get us out of Iraq.

I read on another article about Bush asking Air Force One to get lower to take a closer look at the devastation in NO. What kind of moron do we have in the White House? Lord, have mercy.

I hope all the conservatives in America see what's wrong (with him) and repent.

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First the clean up, THEN the pull out, and THEN the IMPEACHMENT!
Posted by: Voicedude on Sep 8, 2005 12:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After the New Orleans clean up, we need to get to REAL business: ENDING THIS WAR!

After that we have every right, nay, the RESPONSIBILITY to DEMAND his resignation or impeachment!

John Dean (former Nixon advisor) put it so eloquently in his book "Worse Than Watergate - The Secret Presidency of George W. Bush". Dean served time for his part in Watergate, so he may know a thing or two about political misdeeds. A review of his book says:

"Dean argues that in asking Congress for a Joint Resolution authorizing the use of American force in Iraq, President Bush made a number of 'unequivocal public statements' regarding the reasons this country needed to pursue military force in pursuit of national interests. Through tradition, presidential statements regarding issues of national security are held to an expectation of 'the highest standard of truthfulness'. Therefore, no president can simply 'stretch, twist or distort' the facts of a case & then expect to avoid resulting consequences. Citing historical precedents, Dean shows how Johnson's distortions regarding the truth about the war in Vietnam led to his own subsequent withdrawal for candidacy for re-election in 1968, & how Nixon's attempted cover-up of the truth about Watergate forced his own resignation.

Bluntly stated, if Mr. Bush led this country into war based on bogus intelligence data, he is liable under the Constitution for manipulation & deliberate misuse of that data under the "high crimes" statute of that document, given the fact it is a felony to defraud the U.S. through such a conspiratorial action. It is time for both Congress & the American people to demand of Mr. Bush the same kind of high-minded honesty he pledged to us under the oath of office."


...considering the source, I find this quite damning. WHERE ARE THE SPINELESS DEMOCRATS ON THIS? Why is no one screaming 'foul'? Because we've been beat down by a complicit media? In Nixon's day, protesters were beaten down by club wielding police. Where's the righteous indignation people?

So, when do we actually DO SOMETHING?

We better make sure that current Senate President Emil Jones, Jr. D - Chicago, & current House Speaker Dennis Hastert R - Ill., are ready to go when we remove Bush & Cheney from office for their High Crimes. We dealt with a new Prez & Veep 30 years ago & we can deal with it again. We HAVE to...

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If not D.C. then locally . . . .
Posted by: humansfirst on Sep 8, 2005 12:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There will be local war protests all over the place on the 24th as well -- get involved everybody!

The "shift" is shifting and it makes sense that we'd have to face yet again the Hitleresque mentality, to wonder if the end will be us getting nuked up here while Bush & friends are in their bunkers smoking cigars, playing with virile young men, drinking fine wine, etc. Finally, of course, once supplies run out and the young men mutiny, old Bush would probably shoot himself in the head with the Saddam Hussein gun prominently displayed in some grand entranceway in his grandest of grand bunkers, but it would be like he said, "History? What history, we'll all be dead!" anyway. . . .

But with the layperson's understanding of the discoveries in physics in the past century (Quantum, Chaos), we can expect problems with any plan that relies on the linear thinking of the past. Things just aren't the same anymore, things don't work they way they used to, things aren't quite as predictable even for the masters of mass mind control . . . .

Why just today there's an article here at Alternet regarding the better food in schools and prisons reducing violence remarkably -- something many of us knew oh so many years ago when they called us "health food nuts." And there's new energy solutions coming down the pike (if they'd just stop killing off the inventors and hiding the evidence), and so we must look forward to our protest and realize how important and significant it is.

We must get out there on the 24th and be part of the solution for humanity. Because there is a new non-linear way of doing things now, and a new physics to "prove it."

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WARNING: Right-wing brown shirts mobilizing
Posted by: esactun on Sep 8, 2005 1:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wandered somehow into a right-wing Christian-fundie blog, and I read that they're apparently they're planning an allegedly "massive" counter-demo in DC Sept. 24-26, the same days decent and clearheaded folks are going down there to demand simple justice under the US and international law. Be careful. I see a high potential for thug violence, and naturally the DC cops will will blame it on the left and crack down brutally.

Look for right-wingers dressed up in black like the 'anarchists' from Seattle '99. If I were Karl Rove, that's what I would set up.

Remember that the right wing is unencumbered by principle, truth or human decency, and be careful down there!!!

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» Let's See a Link to That Posted by: decembrist
So Easy
Posted by: wesymurray on Sep 8, 2005 1:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If I had fifteen minutes what would I advise the commander in chimp to do "DRINK DRINK DRINK", somebody's got to get that man back on the sauce so we can all see who he really is.

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» What?! Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: So Easy Posted by: Basenjis
it isn't hard to figure out
Posted by: gltirebiter on Sep 8, 2005 2:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
repugs and publicrats are all members of the ruling aristocracy of career parasites we have always tolerated.
think of mussolini hanging from his heels at a gas station...that certainly answered the italians' problems with these types.

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» Thanks unbowed Posted by: Olympiada
it isn't hard to figure out
Posted by: gltirebiter on Sep 8, 2005 2:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
repugs and publicrats are all members of the ruling aristocracy of career parasites we have always tolerated.
think of mussolini hanging from his heels at a gas station...that certainly answered the italians' problems with these types.

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Gary Hart For President!
Posted by: Basenjis on Sep 8, 2005 5:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Re: the reference to Gary Hart.

I remember well Gary Hart as presidential candidate and the idiotic "Monkeybusiness" episode that did him in. Back then Gary Hart was an intelligent, capable young democrat with political savvy but a real stupid streak when it came to women. He destroyed his own chances to be president by his immature behavior. However, he is one of those rare politicians who actually learned something from his mistakes and he's still intelligent, capable, a savvy politician, and a whole lot wiser. After 5 years of a truly idiotic performance by the present occupant of the White House, a mature Gary Hart just might be exactly what we need as replacement.

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» RE: Flabbergasted! Posted by: The Butcher
GJONES1660@SBCGLOBAL.NET
Posted by: GJONES1660 on Sep 8, 2005 7:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
george w. bush needs to be impeached. he is a disgrace! if impeachment is not implemented, which it won't be, then g.w. bush needs to, at the very least, fire michael brown and michael chertoff....how does michael brown expect folks with no id to cash checks mailed to who knows where to who knows whom who are asked to get on the internet and clik on fema and then 6 more clicks til you get to basic demographic informatiomn

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Beware of the cons pretending nicety
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 8, 2005 7:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The stunt by Bush, Rumsfeld, and the rest of the gang to pretend pulling out of Iraq by 2006 is an example of how the cons fake nurturance. Unless the Democrats get bold and warn the public about this and other fake stunts instead of falling into another GOP trap by agreeing with them, the Republicans might very well make 2006 a waltz in the park. The Democrats better get back to treat this war as a values issue of their own if they want a recovery next year.

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Article at sftt.org
Posted by: 1rufus1 on Sep 8, 2005 8:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I read an interesting article at sftt.org about six American soldiers who may have been ambushed and killed by "friendly" Iraqi soldiers. The author admits he cannot confirm it , but it seems there is evidence showing that this is true. It may not be the first incident, either. He points out the problems of occupation and trying to train the locals to do your bidding. Good story.

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» RE: Article at sftt.org Posted by: The Butcher
SIMPS, SOCIOPATHS and BUFFOONS
Posted by: LMNOP on Sep 8, 2005 9:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"And the most significant factor in the ongoing shift in opinion is the steady drumbeat of obituaries in middle America, as National Guard and reserve troops die fighting in Iraq."

What? Americans don't think for themselves. The difference, if any, in public opinion is the Cindy Sheehan phenomenon that has been drumming an alternative message (opinion) into their moldy brainpans. This is a country of pinheads that collectively are no more capable of seeing trends or arriving at conclusions than ants are at doing calculus. What planet has this guy been living on? Has the public caught on to anything else in the last five years, or have they just simpered and drooled in a stupor while several dozen outrageous slights of hand were easily perpetrated right under their noses for lack of any mitigating external input to counter the constant tattooing of their simple little minds by the White House's disinformation ministers via their eunichoid tools, the faux journalists of the mainstream media.

"it is a sad commentary on the utter lack of conviction and sheer moral cowardice that has seized much of the Democratic Party"

Why shouldn't they reflect their constituencies from which they were chosen who are equally unbothered by pangs of courage or conviction? If the Republican Party is America's sociopathic organ, then the Democrats are its dementing shriveled cortex.

Don't get me wrong, America is better off with slapstick stooges running around poking one another's eyes and hurling pies at each other assuming its leadership role than with the Manson family (Rove and his pet chimp Squeaky George) or the Russian mob (Rove, Cheney and Rumsfeld and the rest of the Neocons) doing the same job. But is disingenuous to commission the stooges and then complain that they are buffoons. Of course the Democrats are buffoons. In the present case, then, long live buffoonery! Bring on the clowns! (Don't bother, they're here.) Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk! Soitenly!!

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» RE: some smart americans... Posted by: The Butcher
For what it's worth....
Posted by: The Butcher on Sep 9, 2005 1:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a tiny speck of a Businessman dealing with Intellectual Property.
Most of my work is in China and bits in ASEAN countries.
I'm a nice guy so will share a secret everybody around here knows. This is personal knowledge spanning 20 years.
The Chinese:
When we have a week end, they'll keep working
When we finish work at 5 in the afternoon, they'll keep working.
When we agree on something, they'll keep moving the goal posts.
They'll wine mainly wine and dine you until you just give up!
The US now owe $750 Billion to China.
That is 8% of the US GDP! And growing as Bush keeps borrowing.
Be scared, be really scared as these guys in China have been relentlessly humiliated by successive US governments.
They went for Unocal. They lost. So went to Canada and bought themselves some oil company.
Now Muslims are the toasts>
Chavez and China are building very strong relationships. When they are sealed, the US will have to find another provider as Venezuela will dump the US.
Dear, this is just too complex even for my great mind!
Need to talk to Kissinger to tell me who we should kill next.
All covert stuff.
Here in Australia, all my mails are monitored by ASIO ( your CIA)
I am making this public so that if you do not see my patronym again, you will know.
Here as in America, being anti-zionist makes you some kind of monster fringe lunatic.
Because we are small. it is easier to monitor us.
I'll soon be arrested for dowloading child pornography.
If Mao could execute 70 Millions of his own people over his reign.
And all we have is this excuse of a man! Bush.....
Be very scared.

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Meaning of "No longer worth candle"?
Posted by: SueFlo on Sep 11, 2005 7:44 PM   
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When a person dies, one lights a candle of hope for that person's salvation.
When one is believed to be past salvation, that person is then, NLWorth it!

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Cons and "nicety"
Posted by: SueFlo on Sep 11, 2005 7:51 PM   
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For all who read, "nicety" is a common mistake, which shows up in journalism all the time.
Nicety means exact. It tends to be applied mathematically; when an equation is perfect, it shows nicety.
In a different usage, but with the same meaning, a suit tailored perfectly has nicety of workmanship....
What most mean are (in this case, e.g.) not worth amenities, pleasantries, kindness.

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