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Hurricane Reality vs. Right-Wing Ideology

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted September 8, 2005.


Conservatives take a hit as Hurricane Katrina proves that the disaster's biggest problem was not too much government, but too little, too late.

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Hurricane Katrina blew away not only roofs, levees and lives, but also some of the right's most cherished -- and well-funded -- beliefs. The depth of the disconnect between the right's narrative of what American society should look like and the facts on the ground was almost unspinnable. Reality was hard to stave off in the aftermath of such a disaster.

Some tried. The Wall Street Journal's Daniel Henninger took the opportunity to argue that "poorly incentivized" public bureaucracies "are going to get us killed" and call for outsourcing emergency response functions.

The National Review's Kate O'Beirne wrote that the contrast between Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco and Mississippi's Haley Barbour should leave Hillary Clinton supporters "dismayed at the latest example of why voters might be leery of women chief executives."

Further on the fringe, blogger Michael Calderon at David Horowitz's Frontpage Magazine saw in Katrina the potential for a civil war following a major terror attack in the U.S. and envisioned a Hobbesian war of all against all, predicting -- with just a bit too much enthusiasm -- this apocalyptic scenario:

Expect heavily armed and infuriated conservatives to launch a cleansing war against the traitors. The armed will mow down the mostly unarmed segments, especially those elements that devoted 40-plus years to anti-American hatred to destroy this country. Should the likes of Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Michael Parenti, Michael Moore, Ward Churchill, Dennis Raimondo [sic], et al. act out their sedition ... expect their bodies to be found shot full of holes ... Leftist professors will be strung up. It will be every man, woman, and child for themselves.
And, also predictably, other nutters saw the storm as part of God's wrath for New Orleans' sinful ways (ignoring that some of the staunchest Bible-belt counties in the South were also devastated).

The first ideological victim of the hurricane on the right was the notion of a classless, race-blind society in which we all share the same opportunity to thrive. A media that routinely deletes any reference to race and class was forced to openly confront the desperate and almost purely monochromatic reality of the hurricane's survivors.

The notion -- briefly floated by some conservatives -- that Katrina's victims have some personal responsibility for not leaving when the evacuation orders came down was swiftly deflated. The Washington Post noted that "living paycheck to paycheck made leaving impossible":
To those who wonder why so many stayed behind when push came to water's mighty shove here, those who were trapped have a simple explanation: Their nickels and dimes and dollar bills simply didn't add up to stage a quick evacuation mission.
The New York Times' David Brooks -- who seemed especially shaken by the images coming out of the Gulf Coast -- lamented that Katrina represented a confidence-shattering rip in our social fabric as "the rich escaped while the poor were abandoned," a move he called "the moral equivalent of leaving the injured on the battlefield."

On the question of class, the storm landed at an inopportune moment for conservatives. Katrina hit smack in the middle of a year-long public debate about the United States' growing inequality (in just about every way one can measure it).

The back and forth started in May, when both the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal [$$] (followed by others) began a series on the growing wealth gap in America. The right responded with the usual charge that a liberal agenda was cooking the books -- despite Alan Greenspan weighing in that there was, indeed, a potential problem -- and, alternatively, that what matters isn't what class we belong to but what class we believe we belong to, an argument voiced by, among others, Bruce Bartlett in the National Review.

While Katrina didn't have any direct impact on the debate, images are more visceral than statistics. It's hard to sit in a comfortable, dry place watching the abandoned poor fight for their lives, and argue that the growing class divide in this country is a figment of the left's imagination, or that our current socio-economic arrangements are the best we can do.

Directly related to class is the idea of social cohesion. "United we stand" is a central tenet of the American narrative. Whatever your background, your status, your ideology, we pull together when the chips are down. But in New Orleans it became clear just how transparent that fiction is. Our sense of community -- if the ideal ever truly existed -- has now deteriorated to such a degree that only the threat of deadly violence holds the whole show together.

The scenes of a powder keg with its lid blown off rattled many on the right, despite the fact that in many ways it accords with the conservative view of human nature. Peggy Noonan wrote, "a bad turn in human behavior frays and tears all the ties that truly bind human beings -- trust, confidence, mutual regard" and hoped that "the looters are shot."

The Wall Street Journal editorialized that a "battle" was underway in New Orleans, and called the disorder "the most disturbing part" of the tragedy. National Review Editor Rich Lowry urged readers to buy guns, and wondered whether the current crop of Republican leaders had read Thomas Hobbes, or "does he not make the 'compassionate conservative' reading list?"

Compassionate conservatism, and President Bush's image as a strong and engaged leader -- so carefully groomed -- took a major, perhaps unrecoverable, hit. That aspect has been discussed ad nauseum, so I won't dwell on it, except to say that you would be very hard-pressed to script a more damaging set of images than the President ordering his jet to descend to a low altitude so he could "review the damage" from his window, and his subsequent arrival at the White House with a cute little puppy. Many conservatives expressed deep shock at the administration's utter disconnect, even more so than at its inaction.

Katrina will also play an important role in future debates about the roles of the public and private sectors. The storm came ashore during a year in which it was officially announced that FEMA would lose its disaster preparedness function. The Bush administration has taken heat. As a local emergency management director wrote in the Washington Post, "The advent of the Bush administration in January 2001 signaled the beginning of the end for FEMA. The newly appointed leadership of the agency showed little interest in its work ... Soon FEMA was being absorbed into the 'homeland security borg.'"

The Houston Chronicle editorialized that the fact that "our first-world nation has demonstrated a shockingly third-world capability to care for its citizens" essentially "smashed the myth" that obsessively cutting taxes doesn't carry a cost.

There will be more such criticism to come. How much impact it will have remains to be seen, but it's clear that the problem with New Orleans' disaster preparedness was not too much government, but too little, too late. That simple fact, at its heart, was what rattled so many conservatives so deeply.

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Joshua Holland is a fair-trade activist, a freelance writer and a regular contributor to The Gadflyer blog.

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New Orleans and Bush policy
Posted by: symeonakis on Sep 8, 2005 12:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. The mass majority of people who remained in New Orleans were blacks. Who cares for them!
2. The Helicopters, soldiers and money were in Iraq or for Iraq. Who and how can they help the people in New Orleans?
3. American soldiers are good fighters, they know how to kill the enemies but they do not know how to save people!
4. Do you thing Bush, who did not care or can not manage to save his own people, do you thing he cares or can really help Iraqis? No he will create to them very big problems!
5. The problem caused by the climate change. Do you thing Bush can understand or can change his environment policy?
6. I understand American people are responsible for their president, they elected him. Why do all other nations, all other people have to suffer from the Bush policy?
7. Do American people understand that their country must sign the Kyoto protocol and the International Criminal court?
8. At the end Americans will pay the cost for the wrong policy of their country!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

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» Jeff has a good point... Posted by: ~Fiona~
» RE: Jeff has a good point... Posted by: montims
» RE: Jeff has a good point... Posted by: needlefoot
» Am I the only one? Posted by: nakis
» RE: Am I the only one? Posted by: pepaw
» RE: Am I the only one? Posted by: nakis
» RE: Am I the only one? Posted by: Michiganman
Indisputable evidence
Posted by: david.model@senecac.on.ca on Sep 8, 2005 3:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It has been always evident to those who were open to observing the growing gap between rich and poor that there was something wrong with the American system of government. Those who howled that America was the greatest country in the world were not speaking for those who were diadvantaged in any way. A deeper analysis would reveal that it's not just the system of government (no proportional representation, donations, lobbying etc.) but the ideology that drives those who occupy important posts in government. Neoliberalism espouses the philosophy that we are on are own and must use whatever resources are available to us. The tragic consequences of this philosophy are the refugees, dead bodies floating in the streets, and those huddled in what is left of there houses. Hopefully these people will become the tombstone of the neoliberal philosophy.

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» RE: Indisputable evidence Posted by: needlefoot
» Neoliberal vs. neoconservative Posted by: Swatopluk
» RE: Indisputable evidence Posted by: Pepper
» RE: Indisputable evidence Posted by: BrownAs
The Investigation
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 8, 2005 3:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bush administration has announced that they are going to launch an investigation into what went wrong regarding the reaction to Hurricane Katrina. The time has come for all of us to put our skepticism aside and allow the president to come through with the facts. He promised in 2000 to restore honor and integrity to the White House and I have no doubt that he'll come through with an honest and thorough investigation....

I'm sorry. I just bet myself that I could write that last paragraph and keep a straight face. I lost
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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» RE: The Investigation Posted by: mazel
» RE: The Investigation Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: The Investigation Posted by: Erin
» RE: The Investigation Posted by: Tom Degan
» Even if he doesn't Posted by: beetruetoyou
» RE: The Investigation Posted by: drmeow
» RE: The Investigation Posted by: Pepper
Bottom Line: government failed
Posted by: reugen on Sep 8, 2005 4:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Key takeaway from Katrina: Government should be placed in the hands of capable people.

Mercifully, NYC had a very good leader, one who exhibited grace under tremendous pressure and carried the city and country on his shoulders when tragedy struck.

What cost poor leadership? Generations of unreadable college papers will be written about the utter failure of government to provide for the communities they allegedly serve - from the preparation to the response- to Katrina.

Tax cuts and FEMA funding are not to blame. Poor leadership is the chief culprit.First you ask why the local and state governments didn't execute like they are supposed to. FEMA has nothing to do with local cops walking their beats.


To blame Bush for shifting FEMA funds or to say concervatives are getting a come uppance is to mis the bottom line failure of local and state and federal elected and appointed officials to take advantage of the resources at their disposal when they knew there was going to be a problem.

The looting is perhaps the most disturbing thing of this storm. None of that happened in NYC or other areas when the lights went out on hot summer days. That private behaviour has little to do with economic status or race. Certian individuals made a decision to engage in a disgraceful way.. Government failed to keep the peace.


Instead of calling for a bloviating federal investigation to state the obvious in 10,000 pages or more, why not file criminal charges or impeachment proceedings?

The response would not have transpired under Huey Long's watch and it certainly would not have happened if RG lived in New Orleans instead of NYC.


Reugen
New York, New York

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» apples and oranges Posted by: beetruetoyou
» You missed important fact Posted by: xyz2002
» RE: Bottom Line: government failed Posted by: demidesigrrl
» RE: Bottom Line: government failed Posted by: kelly.nickell
» Bah humbug!! CYA Posted by: Michiganman
ECLECTICIST, S JIM RODRIGUEZ
Posted by: SJR505 on Sep 8, 2005 5:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a Houstonian our neigbors and families have opened our arms, hearts, assets,and homes to attempt to alleviate the misery of our fellow Americans...

Further, I can say this without reservation that our community leadership was initiated not by a President's or FEMA's directive, but by a city that can be labeled as "THe Good Samaritan City..."

Moreover, as Tejanos(means friendly) our direct actions to help was not, repeat not , because both presidents, Bush 41 and 43, are displaced persons residing in Texas and being born in other states...Our reasons were aiding our fellow Americans, but our overriding factor was loving and caring for another human being...

Yes, Houston can be called a "racist city" because we as a Christian community, strongly believe in the "Human Race..."

S...JIM...RODRIGUEZ+++El Eclecticist+++
3333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333

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» over time? Posted by: beetruetoyou
» RE: over time? Posted by: chinasdad
» RE: over time? Posted by: kelly.nickell
» RE: over time? Posted by: Basenjis
» Houston Posted by: xyz2002
» RE: CLECTICIST, S JIM RODRIGUEZ Posted by: fleurdelamer
Excellent article
Posted by: beetruetoyou on Sep 8, 2005 5:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
thanks!

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Tar and feathers...
Posted by: kelly.nickell on Sep 8, 2005 6:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let us not waste another moment of precious time. No investigation, no committees, tribunals, none of that crap.

Do it the way a good conservative would; storm the mansion, drag him into the street and apply that which most simply symbolizes our discontent.

Tar and feathers were good in times past, but I believe feces and a garbage bag are appropriate now, collected from a place that has enough to go around -the superdome.

The MAN: As we consider the continued great works of a president that will go down in infamy:

"There's a lot of work to be done."
PRESIDENT BUSH, visiting hurricane victims in Baton Rouge, La.

“I must also consider the great works of another great president with similar attributes, or I would if I could think of one.” – Kelly Nickell

“Woirds cannot express my satisfaction…” Since I have no satisfaction, there are definitely no “woirds”.

“The earth is flat…you will all die” No, it appears to be shaped like a bowl, holding water until the Corps of Engineers can do something about it.

“The Superdome will have to come down…” No, it already has.

“FEMA…stands for Forget Every Metropolitan Area…” Could be, if Michael D Brown understood the fundamental differences between water and Oklahoma.

“Is that the ocean…?” Michael D Brown – first trip to the beach, last week.

“Who left their boats here…?” Some five year old seeing a couple of large boats parked in the middle of route 23 southeast of New Orleans.

“Momma, is that the president?” - same five year old.

“No son, that’s one of those impresonators(sic) that just pretends to be one when new car lots open.” Momma, upon learning from the president that there was “…a lot of work to be done.”

Wasting your time – me, sorry.

Vote early and often - it's all we got.

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» RE: Tar and feathers... Posted by: jjjhein
» RE: Tar and feathers... Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Tar and feathers... Posted by: russianblue
» RE: Tar and feathers... Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Tar and feathers... Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Tar and feathers... Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Tar and feathers... Posted by: kelly.nickell
» RE: Tar and feathers... Posted by: doneman2000
» RE: Tar and feathers... Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Tar and feathers... Posted by: kelly.nickell
» RE: Tar and feathers... Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Tar and feathers... Posted by: trukman
» RE: Tar and feathers... Posted by: Falang
» RE: Tar and feathers... Posted by: johnny-boy2
» Dig up that link, MR. Posted by: decembrist
» ROTFLMAO Posted by: Olympiada
Who is in Charge of New Orleans?
Posted by: Iana_gheddis on Sep 8, 2005 6:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To hell with the federal government--it doesn't work.

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» RE: Who should be in Charge? Posted by: speak_out
» RE: Who should be in Charge? Posted by: jobie1kno
» RE: Who should be in Charge? Posted by: Iana_gheddis
» RE: Who should be in Charge? Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Who is in Charge of New Orleans? Posted by: kelly.nickell
Worth a look.
Posted by: Colin on Sep 8, 2005 7:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Firstly my apologies on the grounds that my post is only linked to this article in the thinnest of ways. There is, though, enough of a link to carry on typing.

Following all the long overdue analysis of American culture, specifically it's relationships between the 'have's' and the 'have not's' that has arrisen post Katrina, I thought I'd link you all to a UN report that came out yesterday in which the US is slated for having levels of poverty akin to a third world country. These aren't opinion based, it's all worked out from the kind of figures that I've no doubt your media will bury at the first opportunity.

Fortunately for you guys, I'm a firm believer in spreading the whole truth. The doc itself can be found here and, for those who can't spare the time to sift through hundreds of dry pages, the UK Independent has a good story offering the general drift here.

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» RE: Worth a look. Posted by: kelly.nickell
» RE: Worth a look. Posted by: Colin
» RE: Worth a look. Posted by: kelly.nickell
» RE: Worth a look. Posted by: drmeow
» RE: Worth a look. Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Worth a look. Posted by: russianblue
» RE: Worth a look. Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Worth a look. Posted by: russianblue
» RE: Worth a look. Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Worth a look. Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Worth a look. Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Worth a look. Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Worth a look. Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Worth a look. Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Worth a look. Posted by: kelly.nickell
» RE: Worth a look. Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Worth a look. Posted by: kelly.nickell
» RE: Worth a look. Posted by: kelly.nickell
» Hi Colin Posted by: Olympiada
Lets Party Together!
Posted by: kelly.nickell on Sep 8, 2005 7:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I’m going to float another one of my crazy ideas here.

If, per the National Review, A Republican Convention takes place in the New New Orleans, those of us that are godless, hopeless liberals should attend also. Not to mention the disenfranchised masses flashing for beads.

Let’s get all the parties together at the party – and I’m inviting Progressives, Greenies, Weinies, Geeks, Libertarians, Librarians, Scientists, Gurus, and Drag Queens.

First, think of the great group rate. Then consider that we gotta step out of our silos for a moment to get this chazer fixed.

I envision a podium shared by Ru Paul and Rick Santorum, Bill Frist and Kevorkian (though dead, Frist should be able to fix that), Ann Coulter and Michael Moore, not to mention Dennis Hastert and Ray Nagin.

Imagine the dialogue amid the pugnacious spirit of rugged individualists, rabid idealists, pragmatic realists, and, of course capitalists, federalists, elitists, and religeouso-ists. The ists of the place is unfathomable.

George Carlin and Rush Limbaugh deliver a keynote; the discussions begin, and continue into the next century while the rest of us get back to work running our country.

Pleasant thought aint it? All those folks together in the SuperDome – roof fixed, air conditioning on, and cold hurricanes all around.

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» RE: Lets Party Together! Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Lets Party Together! Posted by: kelly.nickell
» RE: Lets Party Together! Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Lets Party Together! Posted by: kelly.nickell
» RE: Lets Party Together! Posted by: grammasanity
» RE: Lets Party Together! Posted by: grammasanity
bush dumb? or maybe the people ?
Posted by: 2rivers on Sep 8, 2005 8:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it has occurred to me that maybe your prez is only playing dumb. because he seems to be getting exactly where he and corporate america wants the u.s. public to be, in its outrage, in its shame etc. before the o6 election he will pull out of irak, he will 'help' rebuild the devastated area, maybe commit to sum other 'compassionate deed' and when its time for the elections, he will have painted a nice enuff picture of this administration that the majority of u. s. folks will be ready to forget AND forgive, feel relief, greatfulness, pride and re-elect sumthing of the same nature. id say kill your tv, your being conditioned at a level you CANNOT be aware anymore.
peace

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» our prez? Posted by: Olympiada
» your TV Posted by: bornxeyed
» Wrong boxeyed Posted by: Olympiada
I said it in another post
Posted by: nakis on Sep 8, 2005 9:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That is supported by this article.

Katrina stripped away the white wash. It's up to us now to see our nation for what it truly is. What our executive branch has become for what it is. What our legislative branch has become for what it is. And what we are for what we are. Our media for what it is.
Tall job. Lots of work.

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Common Cause request
Posted by: nakis on Sep 8, 2005 9:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like many Americans, we have been watching on TV the devastation from Hurricane Katrina that residents of New Orleans and the Gulf States are enduring, and thinking and praying for those affected by this tragedy.

Common Cause has state chapters in Baton Rouge, Louisiana and Jackson, Mississippi, and our thoughts are with our staff and volunteer leaders in those states, and their families and friends. We send our condolences to those who have lost loved ones, and wish the storm victims the courage and strength to rebuild their lives.

Many of us at Common Cause are responding to this national disaster in the same way as millions of other Americans: We are donating our money, we are volunteering our time and we are looking for ways to help make life bearable for the storm victims.

As an organization, we believe that what Common Cause can do best right now is to live up to its motto, "Holding power accountable." In the weeks and months ahead, Common Cause will be asking why federal, state and local governments' response to this disaster was so slow and inadequate. We will push for answers and solutions. We will hold government accountable.

We are also checking in with our members and supporters in the Gulf States. Yesterday, I sent them an e-mail extending our condolences and wishes for a fast recovery. I also asked them to share their storm stories. We want to hear examples of how government at all levels failed to do its job, before, during or after Katrina struck. We believe these stories will help us build a compelling case that we hope will lead to answers and solutions for the many problems that have become obvious in recent weeks.

So if you or someone you know has a story related to the government's role in this tragedy, please consider sharing it with us and the rest of the Common Cause community. You can post it here:

http://www.commonblog.com/story/2005/9/7/155439/2288

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» RE: Common Cause request Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Common Cause request Posted by: russianblue
» RE: Common Cause request Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Common Cause request Posted by: decembrist
» RE: Common Cause request Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Common Cause request Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: Common Cause request Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Common Cause request Posted by: kelly.nickell
» RE: Common Cause request Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Common Cause request Posted by: grammasanity
» RE: Common Cause request Posted by: bornxeyed
» Taxes Posted by: Olympiada
la mer
Posted by: la mer on Sep 8, 2005 10:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When a family neglects its members, when they show no accountability for those in their care, they are held liable AND have their overseeing rights taken away.
What's the difference here besides the enormous size of our family, our brothers and sisters??

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» thank you la mer Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: thank you la mer Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: thank you la mer Posted by: russianblue
» Suck up :) ?! Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: la mer Posted by: Wacre
» RE: la mer Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: la mer Posted by: Wacre
» RE: la mer Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: la mer Posted by: kelly.nickell
» RE: la mer Posted by: johnny-boy2
» take YOU seriously? Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: take YOU seriously? Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: la mer Posted by: kelly.nickell
» RE: la mer Posted by: kelly.nickell
» RE: la mer Posted by: johnny-boy2
UN Reports on the 3RD World of the USA
Posted by: decembrist on Sep 8, 2005 10:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In recent days there have been several articles dealing with racial issues in the US on Alternet. The issues dealt with in those articles - white privelege and racism- have been horribly showcased by the Hurricane.

Here is another piece of evidence for those that believe racism doesn't exist... or that it exists only in our heads - the consequences are all too real.
---------------- ----------------- --------------- -----------------
Published on Thursday, September 8, 2005 by the lndependent/UK
UN Hits Back at US in Report Saying Parts of America are as Poor as Third World
by Paul Vallely

Parts of the United States are as poor as the Third World, according to a shocking United Nations report on global inequality.

Claims that the New Orleans floods have laid bare a growing racial and economic divide in the US have, until now, been rejected by the American political establishment as emotional rhetoric. But yesterday's UN report provides statistical proof that for many - well beyond those affected by the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina - the great American Dream is an ongoing nightmare.

here's the link for the full article:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0908-06.htm

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» thank you decembrist Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: thank you decembrist Posted by: decembrist
» The Decembrists Posted by: Olympiada
» You Posted by: Olympiada
» the one 6 posts above this one Posted by: decembrist
Thomas Hobbes
Posted by: Olympiada on Sep 8, 2005 10:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks for introducing me to yet another philosopher to research!

Your phrase 'Hobbesian war' and had me searching around for an explanation which I have not found yet.

What a well researched article. All those links in there could keep me busy for days.

What sticks in my mind is either a comment or a line I read in an article "this is the worst adminstration ever". Well I am young and can not judge that for my self, but I believe it to be true.

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» RE: Thomas Hobbes Posted by: kww355
» Maitri Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Maitri Posted by: kww355
» Play dumb Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Play dumb Posted by: kww355
» My age range Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: My age range Posted by: kww355
» RE: Maitri Posted by: bornxeyed
» Attack time bornxeyed Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Attack time bornxeyed Posted by: bornxeyed
» My dear friend bornxeyed Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: My dear friend bornxeyed Posted by: bornxeyed
» Education Posted by: Olympiada
JRR
Posted by: JRR on Sep 8, 2005 11:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Conservatives have been trying to weaken the Federal government for years, and this might be just the wake-up call the public needs. I've often heard about the corruption of Louisiana politics, and I suppose there's some truth to it. But no city on Earth could have faced this kind of disaster without falling apart, and no state in the Union could respond effectively without Federal help. There are some situations which must be handled at the national level, and that requires funding, staffing, planning and - above all - authority! We see news reports about the problems faced by local communities on the US-Mexican border and somehow don't understand the simple fact that any person or object coming across that border can be anywhere in the continental US within one week. There's no way that individual states, especially Arizona and New Mexico with their small populations, can provide the necessary funding to address the issue. The flood control problem in Louisiana got much less attention, and the folks in Washington seem to have treated it as a local issue which didn't warrant their attention. Well it's damn sure a national problem now!

Being a Southerner, I often find it ironic that so many of the folks down here have this "anti-federal" view. Our ancestors tried to leave the Union and set up an independent "confederacy" based on their theory of states' rights. A few years later, when things were going sour, Pres. Jeff Davis in Richmond was furious when the various state governors began to disregard his requests for vital resources and instead began hoarding them for their own use. The governor of Georgia, my home state, even threatened to secede from the Confederacy. The irony of this was not lost on Davis, who stated that if the Confederacy perished the words "Died of a Theory" should be written on its tombstone.

If New Orleans can't be rebuilt, we should write those same words on its memorial.

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» RE: JRR Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: JRR Posted by: russianblue
» RE: JRR Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: JRR Posted by: Pounce
» RE: JRR Posted by: johnny-boy2
» AGREE 10000% JRR Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: AGREE 10000% JRR Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: JRR Posted by: kelly.nickell
Self fulfilling prophecy
Posted by: surfreality on Sep 8, 2005 11:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Conservatives claim government is not to be trusted, incompetent and wasteful. They front themselves as anti-establishment outsiders. Washington D.C. is always described disparagingly as "inside the"beltway". They front this story while they hold solid majorities in both Houses of Congress, a majority of jurists on Federal courts and the Presidency. Talk radio, Fox, ABC, and MSNBC are all right wing dominated yet they claim the media is liberal.
Given all that these comments are not surprising: "Tax cuts and FEMA funding are not to blame. Poor leadership is the chief culprit.First you ask why the local and state governments didn't execute like they are supposed to." The emergency in LA. was FEDERALIZED on Sat. Aug.27 giving G.W.Bush the leadership and responsibility for the crisis. This was done because local authorities including the N.O. Police were themselves victims of the storm. Most local resources were and still are out of commission. In any event FEMA on it's own web page says it is the agency responsible for coordinating disaster relief. They and the U.S Army Corps of Engineers should have coordinated with the city a credible evacuation plan in the event of a levee breach.
This arguement makes no sense: "To blame Bush for shifting FEMA funds or to say concervatives are getting a come uppance is to mis the bottom line failure of local and state and federal elected and appointed officials to take advantage of the resources at their disposal when they knew there was going to be a problem."
All I can say to that is had SELA been fully funded then perhaps there wouldn't have been a flood in the first place. In any case, blaming Bush for the cuts while criticizing the locals for not maximizing their resources is not mutually exclusive.
Then there's this: "The looting is perhaps the most disturbing thing of this storm." Call me a softy but I'm going to have to vote for 1000s of dead and 100s of 1000s of homeless who've lost everything as "the most disturbing thing of this storm". Anyway the real looting is about to begin;Haliburtan is getting a huge contract to rebuild the coast.
So why do Americans hand over their government to a party that does not believe in government? Why do people vote for a party that values property and capital over human beings? Bush's government is indeed incompetent and untrustworthy: a self fulfilling prophecy.

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» RE: Self fulfilling prophecy Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Self fulfilling prophecy Posted by: russianblue
» RE: Self fulfilling prophecy Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Self fulfilling prophecy Posted by: mochajava13
» RE: Self fulfilling prophecy Posted by: kelly.nickell
» RE: Self fulfilling prophecy Posted by: surfreality
» RE: Self fulfilling prophecy Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Self fulfilling prophecy Posted by: surfreality
» RE: Self fulfilling prophecy Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Self fulfilling prophecy Posted by: surfreality
» RE: Self fulfilling prophecy Posted by: kelly.nickell
» RE: Self fulfilling prophecy Posted by: kelly.nickell
» RE: Self fulfilling prophecy Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Self fulfilling prophecy Posted by: surfreality
» RE: Self fulfilling prophecy Posted by: johnny-boy2
Washington Post Vindicates President Bush-Congress
Posted by: johnny-boy2 on Sep 8, 2005 12:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted on a previous thread, would like to hear more discussion this.

Reporter Michael Grunwald, who did a major investigative series on the Army Corps of Engineers when the topic was anything but sexy, argues that Louisiana was on the high-list of receiving corps of engineering money. His front-page take on the Corps in Louisiana should have an effect on the post-Katrina conventional wisdom...

An excerpt:

"In Katrina's wake, Louisiana politicians and other critics have complained about paltry funding for the Army Corps in general and Louisiana projects in particular. But over the five years of President Bush's administration, Louisiana has received far more money for Corps civil works projects than any other state, about $1.9 billion; California was a distant second with less than $1.4 billion, even though its population is more than seven times as large. Much of that Louisiana money was spent to try to keep low-lying New Orleans dry. But hundreds of millions of dollars have gone to unrelated water projects demanded by the state's congressional delegation and approved by the Corps, often after economic analyses that turned out to be inaccurate."

Comments, discussion?

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» Day2: Monitored the Situation Posted by: decembrist
» RE: Day2: Monitored the Situation Posted by: johnny-boy2
» Yeah, It Spins Both Directions Posted by: decembrist
» RE: Yeah, It Spins Both Directions Posted by: johnny-boy2
» LOAD OF CRAP TROLL!!! Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: LOAD OF CRAP TROLL!!! Posted by: johnny-boy2
Say what?
Posted by: JRR on Sep 8, 2005 12:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who on the left has suggested that FEMA's funding be reduced? I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'd just really like to know.

And I for one wouldn't suggest a reduction in military spending, although I would prefer that it be spent on better projects. We have to give our troops what they need in Iraq, but it's pretty obvious that the invasion was a huge mistake. Also, the troops we have here at home should be an immediate resource for FEMA operations during something like the New Orleans disaster. I've been reading reports of Canadian emergency personnel being on the scene and helping out when the 82nd Airborn rolled in. I'm not insulting the troops - I'm sure they moved as fast as possible when they got their orders. The problem is in the chain of command. The only people who have any excuse for showing up after the Mounties are the Guard units from Alaska and Hawaii!

One more thought. The idea that these things can't be funded is ridiculous. Getting the wealthy to give up their tax cuts would go a long way to solving these issues. But, silly me, I'm forgetting the political philosophy that 51% of the public has swallowed hook, line, and sinker - In order for 95% of our population to have any chance at a decent life, it's abolutely vital for the other 5% to be as rich as possible.

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Third world in the USA
Posted by: surfreality on Sep 8, 2005 2:58 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sweden, Danemark Finland, Norway, Germany, Holland, France, Iceland. are all socialist countries. All except Germany and France have dictator free histories (I'm not counting royalty), some govern or have governed with communist participation. Most have higher standards of living, longer life expectancy, longer vacations, socialized medicine, free college education. All enjoy what we call first amendment rights. On the downside they do not enjoy 2nd amendment rights and have around 10% unemployment. But they have a generous safty net and next to zero poverty.

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» RE: Third world in the USA Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: Third world in the USA Posted by: grammasanity
f-johnny
Posted by: brasilaron on Sep 8, 2005 3:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
fuck you Johnny boy, for personally trashing anyone on this site. Who made you the master psychologist with gifts to gleen into people's psyches? Once again, fuck you.

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» RE: f-johnny Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: f-johnny Posted by: kelly.nickell
» RE: f-johnny Posted by: joshy1234
» RE: f-johnny Posted by: surfreality
» johnny is a BOY Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: johnny is a BOY Posted by: johnny-boy2
» You just don't get it... Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: You just don't get it... Posted by: kelly.nickell
» RE: You just don't get it... Posted by: kelly.nickell
» AGREE 10000% Kelly.nickell Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: AGREE 10000% Kelly.nickell Posted by: johnny-boy2
Re: tar and feathers
Posted by: grammasanity on Sep 9, 2005 12:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And the horse he rode in on, too. Throw ALL the bums out.

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Talk now
Posted by: cig2 on Sep 9, 2005 4:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where were all these people three days prior when it was pretty evident NO and area was goping to get hit hard.

Did not hear Hillary telling the President to get get help down there now.
Did not hear jessie rushing to the media something needed to be done now.

ou all talk tough for a bunch of people who did nothing prior to hurrican and have probably done nothing since except b**ch about what is happening.

Maybe you donated a few dollars and feel that cleanses your soul.

I for one said nothing prior and have done nothing since, but I sure as hell am not going to cast dispersions on those people who are busting their asses trying to do good work.

You who ridicule have some f**k nerve.

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» RE: Talk now Posted by: russianblue
Didnt do $hit
Posted by: cig2 on Sep 9, 2005 4:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Governor is the commander-in-chief of the state’s military forces. This means that the Governor has the power to have the National Guard execute laws and protect the citizens of Louisiana.

And the (D) Governor did not do it!

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» RE: Didnt do $hit Posted by: russianblue
Told they couldnt go in
Posted by: cig2 on Sep 9, 2005 4:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Louisiana officials delayed relief in New Orleans from the Red Cross. The Red Cross is reporting that they were ready to go into New Orleans with relief supplies on Thursday. Louisiana officials told them to hold off because of "logistics problems." So, will state officials take heat? Of course not? Didn't you know it's all Bush's fault?

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» RE: Told they couldnt go in Posted by: russianblue
Bushs fault
Posted by: cig2 on Sep 9, 2005 4:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did you hear about the St. Rita's nursing home near New Orleans? The staff abandoned the nursing home, leaving the patients behind. The patients tried to barricade the doors using anything they could get their hands on, including wheelchairs. Rescuers found 30 bodies in that nursing home yesterday. Bush's fault, wasn't it?

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» RE: Bushs fault Posted by: russianblue
Dr Dean
Posted by: cig2 on Sep 9, 2005 4:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why isn't the Doctor down there helping??? Didn't Frist take off his suit jacket and head down there to help.

Howlin' Howard's tenure as governor of Vermont should be a model for all the states -- under Dean, there was no racial animosity. Of course 100% of the black population of Vermont could hold a rally in the vestibule of an all-night ATM.

What Dr. Dean forgets is that it was his party that created the social welfare programs that placed, and kept, minorities in poverty. Democrats gained votes by dishing out money to those living in the tennements they created, while not having to get a job. Then, when tragedy strikes these poor folks it, of course, is someone else's fault.

New Orleans and Louisiana is Democrat-controlled NUFF SAID!

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» RE: Dr Dean Posted by: russianblue
Poll
Posted by: cig2 on Sep 9, 2005 4:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the results of a CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll. People were asked who they blamed for the disaster in New Orleans. I'm sure that the angry left will be disappointed with the results:

So ... who's to blame?

Local officials, 25%
Federal officials 18%
Bush 13%
No one 38%

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» RE: Poll Posted by: jeff
» RE: Poll Posted by: russianblue
» RE: Poll Posted by: johnny-boy2
EVACUATION PLAN
Posted by: cig2 on Sep 9, 2005 4:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have now reviewed a copy of the State of Louisiana Emergency Operations Plan. This 45-page document says that "The Southeast Louisiana Hurricane Evacuation and Sheltering Plan is intended to provide a framework within which the parishes can coordinate their actions with State government in order to deal with a catastrophic hurricane."

Here are some of the items I found in this operations plan:

The evacuation plan states that "Local transportation resources should be marshaled and public transportation plans implemented as needed. Announce the location of staging areas for people who need transportation. Public transportation will concentrate on moving people from the staging areas to safety in host parishes with priority given to people with special needs." It also says that the Governor will "Mobilize State transportation resources to aid in the evacuation of people who have mobility and/or health problems. Deploy to support risk area parishes."

It certainly looks like it was the responsibility of the State of Louisiana and the City of New Orleans to make sure that people, and that includes poor people, were evacuated. It didn't happen. So ... it's Bush's fault?

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» RE: VACUATION PLAN Posted by: russianblue
» RE: VACUATION PLAN Posted by: johnny-boy2
Blame game
Posted by: cig2 on Sep 9, 2005 4:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By the way ... we are now learning that Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco might have had a direct role in delaying federal assistance in the Katrina disaster. The story is surfacing that at one point George Bush offered federal help, and Governor Blanco, a Democrat, by the way, said that she preferred to wait for 24 hours before she made that request. That sure gets in the way of the Blame Bush game, doesn't it?

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» RE: Blame game Posted by: mkwagner
New Orleans Ignored Its Own Plan
Posted by: cig2 on Sep 9, 2005 8:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The city of New Orleans followed virtually no aspect of its own emergency management plan in the disaster caused by Hurricane Katrina. New Orleans officials also failed to implement most federal guidelines, which stated that the Superdome was not a safe shelter for thousands of residents.

The guidelines of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which has little jurisdiction to act on its own but is designed to work with local authorities, suggests that local evacuation plans "coordinate the use of school buses and drivers to support evacuation efforts."

Neither New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin nor Mrs. Blanco ordered buses to take people out of the city before the storm. Two days after the storm hit, the governor issued an order for buses to roll, but by then hundreds of buses in New Orleans were underwater and useless.

The city, however, ignored FEMA guidelines that designated "supershelters" should be located outside of floodplains and outside of Category 4 storm-surge zones.


http://www.washtimes.com

" Superdome was not a safe shelter for thousands of residents."

but the Mayor and Gov put people there. NOT BUSH

"coordinate the use of school buses and drivers to support evacuation efforts."

But the Mayor and Gov let the buses just sit there and be destroyed! NOT BUSH

"supershelters" should be located outside of floodplains and outside of Category 4 storm-surge zones."

The Mayor and Gov put people in a "supershelter" right in the middle of it! NOT BUSH

New Orleans Ignored Its Own Plan, Bush's fault, of course.

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It's time for a new (old) ideology
Posted by: Moofa on Sep 10, 2005 12:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think in the interest of national security, it is time to consider nationalizing Halliburton, and the oil industry in the US.

The oil companies are clearly at risk of bringing the country to its knees either by accident or design. Imagine if we had the profits from the oil industry to build a new energy future of clean and renewable sources.

Halliburton is maybe the only company that can do many of the things we as a country must get done. You can almost bet that the "blind trusts" that many of our public official must place their assets in, are heavily invested in Halliburton or its subsideraries. These profits would be better put directly back into improving levies and other infrastructure in the US rather than lining the pockets of the very wealthy.

I'm all for free enterprize, but some entities are too important to our national security to remain as private corporations. We all know this is true. Besides, just fanning the flames of this idea will send the right into a frenzy. It's probably a good time in our history to begin beating this drum -- with China and energy shortages looming.

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Urbi et Orbi
Posted by: fjghccs on Sep 10, 2005 5:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
boy, could we ever, the inhabitants of this planet, be in more danger than now. Just imagine the Strong Man walking from one side of Oval Office to the other looking for an scapegoat. Anything can emerge from his frightful imagination or from any of his illuminated war cabinet staff. Have we already forgotten the "mass destruction weapons" argument to invade Iraq?

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dip them in texas sweet, roll them in turdblossums
Posted by: reugen on Sep 11, 2005 5:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kelly: have your people call my people.

"dip the brownie" is the next reality show waiting to insult america.

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