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How the Poor Got Trapped
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In the months leading up to Hurricane Katrina, it became increasingly clear to local officials that in the event of a killer storm, the No. 1 problem in a city with a 30-percent poverty rate was some 134,000 residents who did not have a car. They knew these people had no way to get out of town -- and that a Category 3 hurricane or stronger would likely bring a flood of Biblical proportions.
And so the plan was...to do nothing.
Well, almost nothing. This summer, as local officials were streamlining the counter-flow interstate traffic plan so that better-off New Orleans residents could leave more quickly, they also prepared a DVD for local churches and civil groups urging the poor to find a ride out of town.
They didn't say who from. They only said who it wouldn't be: The government. Even more amazing, the mayor of New Orleans took the city's buses -- the most viable means for getting poor residents out of town -- and used them to bring people to the Superdome, even as he was acknowledging that conditions there were bound to deteriorate.
This is from a story I filed last week for Philadelphia's Daily News.
"You're responsible for your safety, and you should be responsible for the person next to you," local Red Cross executive director Kay Wilkins explained to the Times-Picayune just six weeks ago. "If you have some room to get that person out of town, the Red Cross will have a space for that person outside the area. We can help you. But we don't have the transportation."
Ironically, the Red Cross has run a network of shelters in New Orleans in the event of hurricane warnings. But it decided several years ago not to open them for a Category 3 or stronger storm that it was more important to get people out of the below-sea-level area -- despite the lack of any organized system for transporting them.
Indeed, as Katrina bore down on New Orleans last weekend, Mayor Ray Nagin marshalled a fleet of city buses -- not to take the city's poor out of town but to the large shelter at the Superdome, where civil order would fall apart as the week progressed.
"Keep in mind, a hurricane, a Cat 5, with high winds, most likely will knock out all electricity in the city, and, therefore, the Superdome is not going to be a very comfortable place at some point in time," Nagin warned on Sunday. "So we're encouraging everyone to leave."
"It's almost as if the planning stopped at the flooding," said Craig E. Colton, a geography professor at Louisiana State University, wondering as many have at the lack of foresight.By the way, here is more of the Times-Picayune story from July 24 this year about the city's DVD warning. The story begins: "City, state and federal emergency officials are preparing to give the poorest of New Orleans' poor a historically blunt message: In the event of a major hurricane, you're on your own." It says lower down:
Their message will be distributed on hundreds of DVDs across the city. The DVDs' basic get-out-of-town message applies to all audiences, but it is especially targeted to scores of churches and other groups heavily concentrated in Central City and other vulnerable, low-income neighborhoods, said the Rev. Marshall Truehill, head of Total Community Action.
"The primary message is that each person is primarily responsible for themselves, for their own family and friends," Truehill said.
vIn addition to the plea from Nagin, Thomas and Wilkins, video exhortations to make evacuation plans come from representatives of State Police and the National Weather Service, and from local officials such as Sen. Ann Duplessis, D-New Orleans, and State Rep. Arthur Morrell, D-New Orleans, said Allan Katz, whose advertising company is coordinating officials' scripts and doing the recording.
The speakers explain what to bring and what to leave behind. They advise viewers to bring personal medicines and critical legal documents, and tell them how to create a family communication plan. Even a representative of the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals weighs in with a message on how to make the best arrangements for pets left behind.The Bush-run federal government is far from blameless. The Federal Emergency Management Agency, or FEMA, which has botched the Katrina operation from Day One, was also well aware of the problems of evacuating the poor. Its response:
Last year, FEMA spent $250,000 to conduct an eight-day hurricane drill for a mock killer storm hitting New Orleans. Some 250 emergency officials attended. Many scenarios now playing out, including a helicopter evacuation of the Superdome, were discussed in that drill for a fictional storm named Pam.
This year, the group was to design a plan to fix such unresolved problems as evacuating sick and injured people from the Superdome and housing tens of thousands of stranded citizens. But funding for that planning was cut, said Tolbert, who also was disaster chief for North Carolina.Why did this have to happen? Why was the issue of getting the poor and the car-less out of New Orleans treated like there was no solution, when there was so much that could have been done?
Why were the municipal buses, as well as the hundreds of school buses that transport children in the Greater New Orleans area, not used to take the most helpless to those out-of-town Red Cross shelters, especially when the Red Cross had pretty much acknowledged that a hurricane would make the city uninhabitable?
Why was there no thought given to using the city's rail lines (there really is a train they call The City of New Orleans, you know), to ferry the poverty-stricken to higher ground?
With a problem on the scale that a federal role was clearly needed, why did FEMA suddenly punt?
The most disgusting part of all of this is now that the poor have once again been failed by their government leaders, local and federal, we see that the head of FEMA is now blaming the victims:
"I think the death toll may go into the thousands and, unfortunately, that's going to be attributable a lot to people who did not heed the advance warnings," Michael Brown told CNN.
Actually, he's right. But those people who did not heed the advance warnings were our political leaders.
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Posted by: Schnookums on Sep 6, 2005 1:26 AM
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» Thanks for the rant schnookums, and your name cracks me up!
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: What to do when you're up a creek without a paddle?
Posted by: Edward George
» Interesting perspective Ed George
Posted by: Olympiada
» Schnookums, Bad news for you
Posted by: bogey11
» RE: What to do ... ARE YOU SERIOUS?
Posted by: Lindie
» RE: What to do ... ARE YOU SERIOUS? meant for the "Got Feet Post"
Posted by: Lindie
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Posted by: rangerjim on Sep 6, 2005 3:36 AM
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» RE: Morally Bankrupt Administration
Posted by: superguy
» RE: Morally Bankrupt Administration
Posted by: bogey11
» Hitler and the Nazis
Posted by: Olympiada
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Posted by: Dan Becker on Sep 6, 2005 3:42 AM
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They are so used to being taken care of they simply forgot they didnt have feet and had two days of walking time to get out of Katrina's way.
Society has insulated everyone to the point they don't believe it is their own responsibility to take care of themselves and cannot even think of taking care of themselves
I believe had the able bodied people left in New Orleans walked out of harms way they wouldn't be in the predicament they are in.
Those who were un able to walk were let down by our society.
The people stealing (DVD players etc etc), raping, and killing at a time like this make me believe the black community has some self cleaning to do. If I was down there and saw people able to help and taking advantage of the lack of controlling authorities I would probably be inclined to shoot them.
As to the part of Bush spending too much in Iraq and fighting an unjustified war, I agree.
New Orleans is proof we have eliminated personal responsibility and I find it sad.
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» RE: Got Feet
Posted by: jules_siegel
» RE: Got Feet
Posted by: Dan Becker
» RE: Got Feet
Posted by: beetruetoyou
» Many were able bodied and had three days to get out.
Posted by: greenthinginwater
» Hindsight is 20/20
Posted by: janvdb
» Foresight is 20/20 too
Posted by: greenthinginwater
» RE: Many were able bodied and had three days to get out.
Posted by: Diecash1
» RE: Many were able bodied and had three days to get out.
Posted by: magistre
» RE: Got Feet
Posted by: ELO
» every humans obligation to take care of themself
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: every humans obligation to take care of themself
Posted by: Basenjis
» These are the descendents of slaves
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Got Feet
Posted by: 911lady
» RE: Got Feet
Posted by: Armafied
» RE: Got Feet - Are you serious?
Posted by: Lindie
» RE: Got Feet
Posted by: Dan Becker
» RE: Got Feet
Posted by: Armafied
» Sorry Dan, You do sound intelligent but,
Posted by: nakis
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Posted by: superguy on Sep 6, 2005 3:57 AM
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» RE: How about using cheap labor?
Posted by: beetruetoyou
» Clueless and proud of it
Posted by: greenthinginwater
» RE: Clueless and proud of it---Certainly clueless anyway
Posted by: bogey11
» RE: Clueless and proud of it
Posted by: beetruetoyou
» to greenthingie
Posted by: beetruetoyou
» We have put them to work - selling bags on the corner
Posted by: janvdb
» RE: How about using cheap labor?
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: How about using cheap labor?
Posted by: Lindie
» Thanks for some uncommon common sense........
Posted by: Diecash1
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Posted by: Urstrly on Sep 6, 2005 4:30 AM
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» If you're unable to get out of the city, you're probably unable to get to church.
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: If you're unable to get out of the city, you're probably unable to get to church.
Posted by: Lindie
» You let the whites off the hook - oh really?
Posted by: Olympiada
» I believe you are taking things out of context.........
Posted by: Diecash1
» Relax and get over it?
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: relax and get over it?
Posted by: Diecash1
» COMPLETELY UNRELATED
Posted by: Olympiada
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Posted by: greenthinginwater on Sep 6, 2005 4:35 AM
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» Self reliance
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: If anyone failed the poor it was the people who use them as pawns
Posted by: kmeyer
» RE: If anyone failed the poor it was the people who use them as pawns
Posted by: Lindie
» RE: If anyone failed the poor it was the people who use them as pawns
Posted by: Lindie
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Posted by: Sandra on Sep 6, 2005 6:19 AM
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» Real compassion
Posted by: greenthinginwater
» RE: eal compassion
Posted by: jwg
» RE: Real compassion
Posted by: Steve
» RE: eal compassion
Posted by: bogey11
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Posted by: neilemac on Sep 6, 2005 6:43 AM
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if such a thing as karma is fact; dubya & clique are in for one 'hell' of a time. Sad thing is that America is condemned too for being party to their madness, [true, you put them in power] and now appear doomed to suffer inconceivable consequences for their actions; but only if the law of karma exists, eh!
I can't be the only one who saw this coming; but what's truly frightening is the question, "What's next?"
namasté
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» So to get even with George Bush God sent a hurricane?
Posted by: greenthinginwater
» RE: So to get even with George Bush God sent a hurricane?
Posted by: jwg
» RE: So to get even with George Bush God sent a hurricane?
Posted by: bogey11
» But I thought you said....
Posted by: beetruetoyou
» RE: Didn't realize I was that prophetic...
Posted by: Basenjis
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Posted by: leftylawyer on Sep 6, 2005 8:01 AM
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Do the math: If you have a bus that holds 50 people, and can make a round trip in 20 minutes, you can move 150 people an hour. If the trip takes an 2 hours, that's 25 people an hour.
The real tragedy was the fact that local authorities did not have the resources to adequately respond and federal authorities failed miserably to fill the breach (to use a poor pun).
Specifically regarding the superdome, what would it have taken to have had the national guard there in force to coordinate and maintain order along with the red cross and/or other aid agencies to provide food, medical aid and comfort?
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» RE: Contrary to outragous assertions, they couldn't have been bussed out...
Posted by: clarasam
» Cuba was a miracle then?
Posted by: nakis
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Sep 6, 2005 8:22 AM
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Also, from what I understand, Louis Armstrong/New Orleans airport was not under water, and could have been used, as it is now, as a staging area for flying in aid on transport planes and then dispersing that aid by helicopter and amphibious vehicles to the survivors (CNN made a good point: "if we can get into town, and get supplies and gas, why can't the authorities?").
The "mistake" of the Mayor to sent people to the Superdome at least put a lot of people in need in one place where the National Guard could control the situation (IF support forces from Illinois and New Mexico had not been delayed by the feds), and where aid could have been concentrated.
There is no question that locally, officials did what they could with what little they had, but that the federal gov't. COMPLETELY screwed up –– while Bush played golf, Cheney hung out in Wyoming, Homeland Security and FEMA played bureaucratic games. . .and people died.
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» federal gov't
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: federal gov't
Posted by: Jarnsaxa
» That book
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: "The Feds Were Flooded Too –– With Bureaucracy" - Re: Cheney
Posted by: Lindie
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Posted by: nelvana on Sep 6, 2005 8:23 AM
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» the poorest members of society
Posted by: Olympiada
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Sep 6, 2005 8:29 AM
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» RE: "Fire the Uncaring Bastards"
Posted by: Justwayne
» RE: "Fire the Uncaring Bastards"
Posted by: monkeywrench
» RE: "Fire the Uncaring Bastards"
Posted by: beetruetoyou
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Posted by: mendomama on Sep 6, 2005 8:37 AM
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While pregnant with my first child, with no help from her father, I struggled to feed myself, not to mention, pay the rent and bills. Then, my mom said to go apply for aid. At first, I was too proud to even hear her out. She told me that her and my Dad, and my Grandparents had paid their share of taxes for dozens of years, so that people in my position could get the help they needed. So, I applied for aid.
Trouble was, because I had a job - they couldn't really help me - I made too much money! So, I got $50/month in food stamps, and applied for the mediCal that paid for my daughter's birth - but, I was still living hand to mouth. Now, if I had quit my job - they could have helped me more. Considering a large part of my pay went to pay for childcare, I would've been better off, financially, to quit my job and collect welfare. My daughter's father did the occasional 'under the table' job to get by, making sure he stayed under the radar - and of course, not helping me with financial obligations.
Most of what I did in a day was not by choice, but for survival. My own, and my daughter's. Now, 10 years later, I have another child, a wonderful husband, and have managed to pull up out of poverty. But, I will NEVER forget what it was like to do everything I could to provide for myself and my child, and to still fall short. I'll always remember what it was like to live off split pea soup, because it was the cheapest meal I could make ($0.33 for a small bag of split peas). Or how my junk car ran on fumes and a prayer - most of the time.
Those who are always blaming the less fortunate for their situations, usually have no idea what it's like to live like that. Nor, do they realize, that most would choose otherwise if they could. Those assumptions are disturbing enough on their own. But, to hear it applied to a catastrophe like this goes beyond ignorant, into totally heartless.
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» RE: ignorance in abundance....
Posted by: karyse
» RE: ignorance in abundance....
Posted by: mendomama
» RE: ignorance in abundance....
Posted by: mendomama
» Thank you!
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Thank you!
Posted by: mendomama
» Rich when it comes to love
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: ich when it comes to love
Posted by: mendomama
» In the Meantime
Posted by: Olympiada
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Posted by: Steve on Sep 6, 2005 8:49 AM
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Posted by: M of Florida on Sep 6, 2005 9:11 AM
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» RE: M Florida
Posted by: Lindie
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Posted by: Olympiada on Sep 6, 2005 9:23 AM
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As someone who does not know how to drive, I can imagine how those poor survivors must feel. This is a horrid situation. There seems to be a real lack of humanitarianism in the people who are supposed to care for our citizens. I am dismayed.
The other thing is, and please do not take offense at this the lady whose user name starts with ma or something, why was a city built below sea level. Historical value put aside for a moment, why? See this is how I think. I always think about the environment...It does not make sense to me. For that matter, why build so close to the coast? I have been a member of the Green Party off and on probably for as long as I have been legal and always think about:
1. The ecosystem
2. How the indigneous people lived.
So what kind of dwellings did they have? Where did they build? Why does New Orleans exist in the first place?
These are my questions, and some might say 'irrelevant' but that is how my mind works. And why are there so many poor black people living in New Orleans? How does the history of slavery fit into all of this?
You see...things are not simple at all .
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» The First Nations and the Mississippi River
Posted by: AdamSelene11726
» RE: The First Nations and the Mississippi River
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Good questions, disturbing article
Posted by: Basenjis
» a major seaport
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Some answers to your questions - part 2
Posted by: Lindie
» they were well aware of the river's propensity to flood
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: RTo answer some of your questions - part one
Posted by: Lindie
» Thank you Lindie for real
Posted by: Olympiada
» What's the point?
Posted by: beetruetoyou
» Pardon me?
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Pardon me?
Posted by: beetruetoyou
» I need to get over it?
Posted by: Olympiada
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Sep 6, 2005 9:38 AM
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The State and Local Governments, all run by Democrats since Reconstruction, have miserably failed their people.
If you are looking for political hate ammo, look elsewhere.
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» Reconstruction and New Orleans
Posted by: Olympiada
» Cutting down vs Stopping Altogether
Posted by: AdamSelene11726
» RE: Cutting down vs Stopping Altogether
Posted by: Steve
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Posted by: barrys new conversations on Sep 6, 2005 9:50 AM
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» So, since we have one caste of no-rights slaves, all others must be treated just as badly?
Posted by: janvdb
» RE: Sorry for Disaster But No Sale on Guilt
Posted by: churchofone
» And as a result, they'll stay poor, too
Posted by: beetruetoyou
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Posted by: Sojourner on Sep 6, 2005 10:07 AM
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The responsibility for government action on hurricanes was spelled out in the legislation for establishing the Department of Homeland Security. FIRST responsibility, by law, is FEMA's.
We will hear a lot and read a lot of lies about responsibility, as on this site excusing Republicans and FEMA. They are inexcusable -- by law they are responsible.
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Posted by: Jean Jearman on Sep 6, 2005 10:19 AM
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Posted by: timtufuga on Sep 6, 2005 10:24 AM
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On a more class and racially located perspective, then perhaps we are not being guilty of groupthink at all but perhaps being calculatingly conniving on a devious level? Then, so what of the poor and afro-American dominated people who were hit the hardest then? These people were wooed by the promise of lower real estate valued properties in areas that would become "ethnic enclaves" ghettoes, but more importantly, was the fact that these so called areas were within the most exposed and vulnerable areas for would be Hurricanes and floodings? Then consider then that a cabal of 'groupthink' decisions making processes, by townplanners, for the poorfolk may be considered as merely contingent to their limited socio-economic choices, as opposed to say for poorer folk to opt to move to higher ground within New Orleans. Then, as a consequence, the ethnic minority quarter, not surprisingly, dominated by Afro-American residents, were to be considered as impoverished high risk residents, who would, inadvertanly, be bound to take on such a high calculated risk in settling in such a flood prone area which was cheaper and affordable for them to live in.
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» RE: Groupthink! and Speilberg's script.(Part 1)
Posted by: churchofone
» RE: Groupthink! and Speilberg's script.(Part 1)
Posted by: Lindie
» RE: Groupthink! and Speilberg's script.(Part 1)
Posted by: Lindie
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Posted by: timtufuga on Sep 6, 2005 10:25 AM
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The outcry and recriminations directed against FEMA and the Louisiana emergency management authority is merely a socio-political response to a hastened need to saving poor afro-Americans from drowning by expensive Search and Rescue Operations by Blackhawks and Hueys, and the lethargic boats to extract the sick and weak was expedient upon the value laden criteria as Sederberg once coined about class and the value of saving lives, in that "We are all on a sinking ship, he who is poorer sinks faster", and in this instance, the poor afro-american ghettoes were considered as a less of a priority by S&R from FEMA and others, compared to the more wealthier persons living elsewhere who were also in need of S&R. The onset of Anarchic nihilism and entropy was always an expected as response to chaotic and traumatic event such as Katrina, the presumably comprehensive synotic response by FEMA and other emergency services was bound to be incremental and spasmodic and spontaneous. The violence and the chaos was to be expected by some analysts, particularly from the aforementioned 'ghettoised' quarters.
The human condition is similar anywhere even in the purportedly most powerful nation in the world, whereby man in state of disquilibria and in a Hobbesian defination of chaotic and anarchic nature will respond along timeless and universal laws of nature, the instinct of man to be self serving, and less gregarious, comes to the fore, when his or her 'survival' is at stake. The movie script of "War of the worlds" might easily have been scripted for just a visualised displacement of humans from New Orleans and anywhere in Katrina's wake, except, in this instance, this was not a movie at all.
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» RE: Groupthink! and Speilberg's script.(Part 2)
Posted by: Lindie
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Posted by: phrelin on Sep 6, 2005 11:51 AM
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"But state Office of Emergency Services officials have warned San Francisco that it could lose out on federal money by responding too quickly to the Red Cross' request for help.
"'If any jurisdiction moves forward to make agreements to do things in a disaster period when they have not used the normal process that we have in California, they always take a risk of having expenses that are not eligible (for reimbursement),' Henry Renteria, director of the governor's Office of Emergency Services, said in a news conference Sunday."
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» Who has time to make the bureaucracy work...
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: You Have Always Been On Your Own
Posted by: Lindie
» RE: You Have Always Been On Your Own
Posted by: Diecash1
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Posted by: 1rufus1 on Sep 6, 2005 2:21 PM
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» Evacuation Plans
Posted by: AdamSelene11726
» RE: Should Have Heeded Ivan's Warnings
Posted by: mendomama
» RE: Should Have Heeded Ivan's Warnings
Posted by: Lindie
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Posted by: nitsua1023 on Sep 6, 2005 3:33 PM
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Also known as Vertical Social mobility. People used to call America the land of opportunity because of vertical social mobility. Our country once offered people this dream of moving on up. Studies show that Western Europe is now the home of the American Dream. Studies over the past two decades show that Americans tend to stay in the social class they were born in. Without social mobility we may end up with a caste system, like in India. People are simply born into a class, and stuck there. No matter what.
We are already seeing drastic drops in international student enrollment here, maybe the rest of the world no longer sees opportunity here. They will likely find opportunity in the regions with more social mobility. Western Europe.
This is why many in NOLA got stuck. They have been stuck socially since day 1.
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Posted by: Slim Goody on Sep 7, 2005 12:55 PM
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Posted by: cig2 on Sep 9, 2005 4:19 PM
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They are useless now thanks to the Mayor.
This is a classic lack of city and state leadership. Classic. Looking for someone else to to do the heavy lifting. "I didn't do my job and now I'm pissed you didn't do my job." This is pathetic.
Over 200 ruined buses in this one photo could have hauled out 10,000 evacuees per trip. Mayor Gumbo needs to answer for his gross incompetence.
http://tinypic.com/bijv9j.jpg
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Posted by: cig2 on Sep 9, 2005 4:22 PM
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He HAD the buses. Hundreds of them. The horrible sight of *Hundreds* of buses unused in the flood water....
"http://home.mchsi.com/%7Eidkfa/bus2.jpg"
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Posted by: cig2 on Sep 9, 2005 4:24 PM
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Did not hear Hillary telling the President to get get help down there now.
Did not hear jessie rushing to the media something needed to be done now.
ou all talk tough for a bunch of people who did nothing prior to hurrican and have probably done nothing since except b**ch about what is happening.
Maybe you donated a few dollars and feel that cleanses your soul.
I for one said nothing prior and have done nothing since, but I sure as hell am not going to cast dispersions on those people who are busting their asses trying to do good work.
You who ridicule have some f**k nerve.
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Posted by: Schnookums on Sep 6, 2005 1:26 AM
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» Thanks for the rant schnookums, and your name cracks me up!
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: What to do when you're up a creek without a paddle?
Posted by: Edward George
» Interesting perspective Ed George
Posted by: Olympiada
» Schnookums, Bad news for you
Posted by: bogey11
» RE: What to do ... ARE YOU SERIOUS?
Posted by: Lindie
» RE: What to do ... ARE YOU SERIOUS? meant for the "Got Feet Post"
Posted by: Lindie
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Posted by: rangerjim on Sep 6, 2005 3:36 AM
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» RE: Morally Bankrupt Administration
Posted by: superguy
» RE: Morally Bankrupt Administration
Posted by: bogey11
» Hitler and the Nazis
Posted by: Olympiada
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Dan Becker on Sep 6, 2005 3:42 AM
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They are so used to being taken care of they simply forgot they didnt have feet and had two days of walking time to get out of Katrina's way.
Society has insulated everyone to the point they don't believe it is their own responsibility to take care of themselves and cannot even think of taking care of themselves
I believe had the able bodied people left in New Orleans walked out of harms way they wouldn't be in the predicament they are in.
Those who were un able to walk were let down by our society.
The people stealing (DVD players etc etc), raping, and killing at a time like this make me believe the black community has some self cleaning to do. If I was down there and saw people able to help and taking advantage of the lack of controlling authorities I would probably be inclined to shoot them.
As to the part of Bush spending too much in Iraq and fighting an unjustified war, I agree.
New Orleans is proof we have eliminated personal responsibility and I find it sad.
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» RE: Got Feet
Posted by: jules_siegel
» RE: Got Feet
Posted by: Dan Becker
» RE: Got Feet
Posted by: beetruetoyou
» Many were able bodied and had three days to get out.
Posted by: greenthinginwater
» Hindsight is 20/20
Posted by: janvdb
» Foresight is 20/20 too
Posted by: greenthinginwater
» RE: Many were able bodied and had three days to get out.
Posted by: Diecash1
» RE: Many were able bodied and had three days to get out.
Posted by: magistre
» RE: Got Feet
Posted by: ELO
» every humans obligation to take care of themself
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: every humans obligation to take care of themself
Posted by: Basenjis
» These are the descendents of slaves
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Got Feet
Posted by: 911lady
» RE: Got Feet
Posted by: Armafied
» RE: Got Feet - Are you serious?
Posted by: Lindie
» RE: Got Feet
Posted by: Dan Becker
» RE: Got Feet
Posted by: Armafied
» Sorry Dan, You do sound intelligent but,
Posted by: nakis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: superguy on Sep 6, 2005 3:57 AM
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» RE: How about using cheap labor?
Posted by: beetruetoyou
» Clueless and proud of it
Posted by: greenthinginwater
» RE: Clueless and proud of it---Certainly clueless anyway
Posted by: bogey11
» RE: Clueless and proud of it
Posted by: beetruetoyou
» to greenthingie
Posted by: beetruetoyou
» We have put them to work - selling bags on the corner
Posted by: janvdb
» RE: How about using cheap labor?
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: How about using cheap labor?
Posted by: Lindie
» Thanks for some uncommon common sense........
Posted by: Diecash1
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Posted by: Urstrly on Sep 6, 2005 4:30 AM
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» If you're unable to get out of the city, you're probably unable to get to church.
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: If you're unable to get out of the city, you're probably unable to get to church.
Posted by: Lindie
» You let the whites off the hook - oh really?
Posted by: Olympiada
» I believe you are taking things out of context.........
Posted by: Diecash1
» Relax and get over it?
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: relax and get over it?
Posted by: Diecash1
» COMPLETELY UNRELATED
Posted by: Olympiada
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Posted by: greenthinginwater on Sep 6, 2005 4:35 AM
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» Self reliance
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: If anyone failed the poor it was the people who use them as pawns
Posted by: kmeyer
» RE: If anyone failed the poor it was the people who use them as pawns
Posted by: Lindie
» RE: If anyone failed the poor it was the people who use them as pawns
Posted by: Lindie
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Posted by: Sandra on Sep 6, 2005 6:19 AM
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» Real compassion
Posted by: greenthinginwater
» RE: eal compassion
Posted by: jwg
» RE: Real compassion
Posted by: Steve
» RE: eal compassion
Posted by: bogey11
Comments are closed-
Posted by: neilemac on Sep 6, 2005 6:43 AM
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if such a thing as karma is fact; dubya & clique are in for one 'hell' of a time. Sad thing is that America is condemned too for being party to their madness, [true, you put them in power] and now appear doomed to suffer inconceivable consequences for their actions; but only if the law of karma exists, eh!
I can't be the only one who saw this coming; but what's truly frightening is the question, "What's next?"
namasté
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» So to get even with George Bush God sent a hurricane?
Posted by: greenthinginwater
» RE: So to get even with George Bush God sent a hurricane?
Posted by: jwg
» RE: So to get even with George Bush God sent a hurricane?
Posted by: bogey11
» But I thought you said....
Posted by: beetruetoyou
» RE: Didn't realize I was that prophetic...
Posted by: Basenjis
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Posted by: leftylawyer on Sep 6, 2005 8:01 AM
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Do the math: If you have a bus that holds 50 people, and can make a round trip in 20 minutes, you can move 150 people an hour. If the trip takes an 2 hours, that's 25 people an hour.
The real tragedy was the fact that local authorities did not have the resources to adequately respond and federal authorities failed miserably to fill the breach (to use a poor pun).
Specifically regarding the superdome, what would it have taken to have had the national guard there in force to coordinate and maintain order along with the red cross and/or other aid agencies to provide food, medical aid and comfort?
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» RE: Contrary to outragous assertions, they couldn't have been bussed out...
Posted by: clarasam
» Cuba was a miracle then?
Posted by: nakis
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Sep 6, 2005 8:22 AM
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Also, from what I understand, Louis Armstrong/New Orleans airport was not under water, and could have been used, as it is now, as a staging area for flying in aid on transport planes and then dispersing that aid by helicopter and amphibious vehicles to the survivors (CNN made a good point: "if we can get into town, and get supplies and gas, why can't the authorities?").
The "mistake" of the Mayor to sent people to the Superdome at least put a lot of people in need in one place where the National Guard could control the situation (IF support forces from Illinois and New Mexico had not been delayed by the feds), and where aid could have been concentrated.
There is no question that locally, officials did what they could with what little they had, but that the federal gov't. COMPLETELY screwed up –– while Bush played golf, Cheney hung out in Wyoming, Homeland Security and FEMA played bureaucratic games. . .and people died.
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» federal gov't
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: federal gov't
Posted by: Jarnsaxa
» That book
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: "The Feds Were Flooded Too –– With Bureaucracy" - Re: Cheney
Posted by: Lindie
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Posted by: nelvana on Sep 6, 2005 8:23 AM
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» the poorest members of society
Posted by: Olympiada
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Sep 6, 2005 8:29 AM
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» RE: "Fire the Uncaring Bastards"
Posted by: Justwayne
» RE: "Fire the Uncaring Bastards"
Posted by: monkeywrench
» RE: "Fire the Uncaring Bastards"
Posted by: beetruetoyou
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mendomama on Sep 6, 2005 8:37 AM
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While pregnant with my first child, with no help from her father, I struggled to feed myself, not to mention, pay the rent and bills. Then, my mom said to go apply for aid. At first, I was too proud to even hear her out. She told me that her and my Dad, and my Grandparents had paid their share of taxes for dozens of years, so that people in my position could get the help they needed. So, I applied for aid.
Trouble was, because I had a job - they couldn't really help me - I made too much money! So, I got $50/month in food stamps, and applied for the mediCal that paid for my daughter's birth - but, I was still living hand to mouth. Now, if I had quit my job - they could have helped me more. Considering a large part of my pay went to pay for childcare, I would've been better off, financially, to quit my job and collect welfare. My daughter's father did the occasional 'under the table' job to get by, making sure he stayed under the radar - and of course, not helping me with financial obligations.
Most of what I did in a day was not by choice, but for survival. My own, and my daughter's. Now, 10 years later, I have another child, a wonderful husband, and have managed to pull up out of poverty. But, I will NEVER forget what it was like to do everything I could to provide for myself and my child, and to still fall short. I'll always remember what it was like to live off split pea soup, because it was the cheapest meal I could make ($0.33 for a small bag of split peas). Or how my junk car ran on fumes and a prayer - most of the time.
Those who are always blaming the less fortunate for their situations, usually have no idea what it's like to live like that. Nor, do they realize, that most would choose otherwise if they could. Those assumptions are disturbing enough on their own. But, to hear it applied to a catastrophe like this goes beyond ignorant, into totally heartless.
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» RE: ignorance in abundance....
Posted by: karyse
» RE: ignorance in abundance....
Posted by: mendomama
» RE: ignorance in abundance....
Posted by: mendomama
» Thank you!
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Thank you!
Posted by: mendomama
» Rich when it comes to love
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: ich when it comes to love
Posted by: mendomama
» In the Meantime
Posted by: Olympiada
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Posted by: Steve on Sep 6, 2005 8:49 AM
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Posted by: M of Florida on Sep 6, 2005 9:11 AM
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» RE: M Florida
Posted by: Lindie
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Posted by: Olympiada on Sep 6, 2005 9:23 AM
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As someone who does not know how to drive, I can imagine how those poor survivors must feel. This is a horrid situation. There seems to be a real lack of humanitarianism in the people who are supposed to care for our citizens. I am dismayed.
The other thing is, and please do not take offense at this the lady whose user name starts with ma or something, why was a city built below sea level. Historical value put aside for a moment, why? See this is how I think. I always think about the environment...It does not make sense to me. For that matter, why build so close to the coast? I have been a member of the Green Party off and on probably for as long as I have been legal and always think about:
1. The ecosystem
2. How the indigneous people lived.
So what kind of dwellings did they have? Where did they build? Why does New Orleans exist in the first place?
These are my questions, and some might say 'irrelevant' but that is how my mind works. And why are there so many poor black people living in New Orleans? How does the history of slavery fit into all of this?
You see...things are not simple at all .
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» The First Nations and the Mississippi River
Posted by: AdamSelene11726
» RE: The First Nations and the Mississippi River
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Good questions, disturbing article
Posted by: Basenjis
» a major seaport
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Some answers to your questions - part 2
Posted by: Lindie
» they were well aware of the river's propensity to flood
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: RTo answer some of your questions - part one
Posted by: Lindie
» Thank you Lindie for real
Posted by: Olympiada
» What's the point?
Posted by: beetruetoyou
» Pardon me?
Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Pardon me?
Posted by: beetruetoyou
» I need to get over it?
Posted by: Olympiada
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NoPCZone on Sep 6, 2005 9:38 AM
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The State and Local Governments, all run by Democrats since Reconstruction, have miserably failed their people.
If you are looking for political hate ammo, look elsewhere.
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» Reconstruction and New Orleans
Posted by: Olympiada
» Cutting down vs Stopping Altogether
Posted by: AdamSelene11726
» RE: Cutting down vs Stopping Altogether
Posted by: Steve
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Posted by: barrys new conversations on Sep 6, 2005 9:50 AM
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» So, since we have one caste of no-rights slaves, all others must be treated just as badly?
Posted by: janvdb
» RE: Sorry for Disaster But No Sale on Guilt
Posted by: churchofone
» And as a result, they'll stay poor, too
Posted by: beetruetoyou
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Posted by: Sojourner on Sep 6, 2005 10:07 AM
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The responsibility for government action on hurricanes was spelled out in the legislation for establishing the Department of Homeland Security. FIRST responsibility, by law, is FEMA's.
We will hear a lot and read a lot of lies about responsibility, as on this site excusing Republicans and FEMA. They are inexcusable -- by law they are responsible.
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Posted by: Jean Jearman on Sep 6, 2005 10:19 AM
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Posted by: timtufuga on Sep 6, 2005 10:24 AM
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On a more class and racially located perspective, then perhaps we are not being guilty of groupthink at all but perhaps being calculatingly conniving on a devious level? Then, so what of the poor and afro-American dominated people who were hit the hardest then? These people were wooed by the promise of lower real estate valued properties in areas that would become "ethnic enclaves" ghettoes, but more importantly, was the fact that these so called areas were within the most exposed and vulnerable areas for would be Hurricanes and floodings? Then consider then that a cabal of 'groupthink' decisions making processes, by townplanners, for the poorfolk may be considered as merely contingent to their limited socio-economic choices, as opposed to say for poorer folk to opt to move to higher ground within New Orleans. Then, as a consequence, the ethnic minority quarter, not surprisingly, dominated by Afro-American residents, were to be considered as impoverished high risk residents, who would, inadvertanly, be bound to take on such a high calculated risk in settling in such a flood prone area which was cheaper and affordable for them to live in.
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» RE: Groupthink! and Speilberg's script.(Part 1)
Posted by: churchofone
» RE: Groupthink! and Speilberg's script.(Part 1)
Posted by: Lindie
» RE: Groupthink! and Speilberg's script.(Part 1)
Posted by: Lindie
Comments are closed-
Posted by: timtufuga on Sep 6, 2005 10:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The outcry and recriminations directed against FEMA and the Louisiana emergency management authority is merely a socio-political response to a hastened need to saving poor afro-Americans from drowning by expensive Search and Rescue Operations by Blackhawks and Hueys, and the lethargic boats to extract the sick and weak was expedient upon the value laden criteria as Sederberg once coined about class and the value of saving lives, in that "We are all on a sinking ship, he who is poorer sinks faster", and in this instance, the poor afro-american ghettoes were considered as a less of a priority by S&R from FEMA and others, compared to the more wealthier persons living elsewhere who were also in need of S&R. The onset of Anarchic nihilism and entropy was always an expected as response to chaotic and traumatic event such as Katrina, the presumably comprehensive synotic response by FEMA and other emergency services was bound to be incremental and spasmodic and spontaneous. The violence and the chaos was to be expected by some analysts, particularly from the aforementioned 'ghettoised' quarters.
The human condition is similar anywhere even in the purportedly most powerful nation in the world, whereby man in state of disquilibria and in a Hobbesian defination of chaotic and anarchic nature will respond along timeless and universal laws of nature, the instinct of man to be self serving, and less gregarious, comes to the fore, when his or her 'survival' is at stake. The movie script of "War of the worlds" might easily have been scripted for just a visualised displacement of humans from New Orleans and anywhere in Katrina's wake, except, in this instance, this was not a movie at all.
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» RE: Groupthink! and Speilberg's script.(Part 2)
Posted by: Lindie
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Posted by: phrelin on Sep 6, 2005 11:51 AM
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"But state Office of Emergency Services officials have warned San Francisco that it could lose out on federal money by responding too quickly to the Red Cross' request for help.
"'If any jurisdiction moves forward to make agreements to do things in a disaster period when they have not used the normal process that we have in California, they always take a risk of having expenses that are not eligible (for reimbursement),' Henry Renteria, director of the governor's Office of Emergency Services, said in a news conference Sunday."
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» Who has time to make the bureaucracy work...
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: You Have Always Been On Your Own
Posted by: Lindie
» RE: You Have Always Been On Your Own
Posted by: Diecash1
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Posted by: 1rufus1 on Sep 6, 2005 2:21 PM
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» Evacuation Plans
Posted by: AdamSelene11726
» RE: Should Have Heeded Ivan's Warnings
Posted by: mendomama
» RE: Should Have Heeded Ivan's Warnings
Posted by: Lindie
Comments are closed-
Posted by: nitsua1023 on Sep 6, 2005 3:33 PM
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Also known as Vertical Social mobility. People used to call America the land of opportunity because of vertical social mobility. Our country once offered people this dream of moving on up. Studies show that Western Europe is now the home of the American Dream. Studies over the past two decades show that Americans tend to stay in the social class they were born in. Without social mobility we may end up with a caste system, like in India. People are simply born into a class, and stuck there. No matter what.
We are already seeing drastic drops in international student enrollment here, maybe the rest of the world no longer sees opportunity here. They will likely find opportunity in the regions with more social mobility. Western Europe.
This is why many in NOLA got stuck. They have been stuck socially since day 1.
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Posted by: Slim Goody on Sep 7, 2005 12:55 PM
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Posted by: cig2 on Sep 9, 2005 4:19 PM
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They are useless now thanks to the Mayor.
This is a classic lack of city and state leadership. Classic. Looking for someone else to to do the heavy lifting. "I didn't do my job and now I'm pissed you didn't do my job." This is pathetic.
Over 200 ruined buses in this one photo could have hauled out 10,000 evacuees per trip. Mayor Gumbo needs to answer for his gross incompetence.
http://tinypic.com/bijv9j.jpg
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Posted by: cig2 on Sep 9, 2005 4:22 PM
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He HAD the buses. Hundreds of them. The horrible sight of *Hundreds* of buses unused in the flood water....
"http://home.mchsi.com/%7Eidkfa/bus2.jpg"
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Posted by: cig2 on Sep 9, 2005 4:24 PM
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Did not hear Hillary telling the President to get get help down there now.
Did not hear jessie rushing to the media something needed to be done now.
ou all talk tough for a bunch of people who did nothing prior to hurrican and have probably done nothing since except b**ch about what is happening.
Maybe you donated a few dollars and feel that cleanses your soul.
I for one said nothing prior and have done nothing since, but I sure as hell am not going to cast dispersions on those people who are busting their asses trying to do good work.
You who ridicule have some f**k nerve.
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