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Why the Levee Broke

By Will Bunch, Attytood. Posted September 1, 2005.


Washington knew exactly what needed to be done to protect the citizens of New Orleans from disasters like Katrina. Yet federal funding for Louisiana flood control projects was diverted to pay for the war in Iraq.
Why the Levee Broke
Why the Levee Broke

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Even though Hurricane Katrina has moved well north of the city, the waters continued to rise in New Orleans on Wednesday. That's because Lake Pontchartrain continues to pour through a two-block-long break in the main levee, near the city's 17th Street Canal. With much of the Crescent City some 10 feet below sea level, the rising tide may not stop until until it's level with the massive lake.

There have been numerous reports of bodies floating in the poorest neighborhoods of this poverty-plagued city, but the truth is that the death toll may not be known for days, because the conditions continue to frustrate rescue efforts.

New Orleans had long known it was highly vulnerable to flooding and a direct hit from a hurricane. In fact, the federal government has been working with state and local officials in the region since the late 1960s on major hurricane and flood relief efforts. When flooding from a massive rainstorm in May 1995 killed six people, Congress authorized the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, or SELA.

Over the next 10 years, the Army Corps of Engineers, tasked with carrying out SELA, spent $430 million on shoring up levees and building pumping stations, with $50 million in local aid. But at least $250 million in crucial projects remained, even as hurricane activity in the Atlantic Basin increased dramatically and the levees surrounding New Orleans continued to subside.

Yet after 2003, the flow of federal dollars toward SELA dropped to a trickle. The Corps never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security -- coming at the same time as federal tax cuts -- was the reason for the strain. At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars.

Newhouse News Service, in an article posted late Tuesday night at The Times-Picayune Web site, reported: "No one can say they didn't see it coming. ... Now in the wake of one of the worst storms ever, serious questions are being asked about the lack of preparation."

In early 2004, as the cost of the conflict in Iraq soared, President Bush proposed spending less than 20 percent of what the Corps said was needed for Lake Pontchartrain, according to this Feb. 16, 2004, article, in New Orleans CityBusiness:

The $750 million Lake Pontchartrain and Vicinity Hurricane Protection project is another major Corps project, which remains about 20% incomplete due to lack of funds, said Al Naomi, project manager. That project consists of building up levees and protection for pumping stations on the east bank of the Mississippi River in Orleans, St. Bernard, St. Charles and Jefferson parishes.

The Lake Pontchartrain project is slated to receive $3.9 million in the president's 2005 budget. Naomi said about $20 million is needed.

"The longer we wait without funding, the more we sink," he said. "I've got at least six levee construction contracts that need to be done to raise the levee protection back to where it should be (because of settling). Right now I owe my contractors about $5 million. And we're going to have to pay them interest."

On June 8, 2004, Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana, told the Times-Picayune: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us."

That June, with the 2004 hurricane seasion starting, the Corps' Naomi went before a local agency, the East Jefferson Levee Authority, and essentially begged for $2 million for urgent work that Washington was now unable to pay for. From the June 18, 2004 Times-Picayune:

"The system is in great shape, but the levees are sinking. Everything is sinking, and if we don't get the money fast enough to raise them, then we can't stay ahead of the settlement," he said. "The problem that we have isn't that the levee is low, but that the federal funds have dried up so that we can't raise them."

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Will Bunch is a senior writer at the Philadelphia Daily News and author of the blog Attytood.

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American taxpayers can't fix everything
Posted by: Frumkinlovesmoney on Sep 1, 2005 3:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Maestri's comment about the divergence of funds is his personal opinion. Pork is everywhere and just because someone got less than they asked for, does not mean the money was diverted.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: American taxpayers can't fix everything Posted by: Frumkinlovesmoney
» This Time I Did -- research that is Posted by: aswgt@ix.netcom.com
» RE: in Holland they live below sea level Posted by: Frumkinlovesmoney
» Maestri's comment Posted by: Olympiada
» OMB? Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: OMB? Posted by: greenthinginwater
» Political Science Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: American taxpayers can't fix everything Posted by: greenthinginwater
Priorities...
Posted by: dj0114 on Sep 1, 2005 4:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, well… once again Georgie and Company's priorities have us in a bind. If he had not cut taxes so severely so that he and his rich friends could wallow in their money and tried to fight two major wars there may have been no need to cut funding for the levee projects in LA.

I wonder if those tax cuts are worth it now to the many who sided with Georgie. I daresay it will cost more than the tax cuts to put New Orleans back together.

Not only that, the hit our economy is taking now due to rising gas prices, lack of consumer's confidence and lack of confidence in Georgie's leadership will haunt us for a long time.

This disaster will also add to joblessness and the already ugly federal deficit.

So Georgie- do you think those tax cuts was money well spent now?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Priorities... Posted by: susan9390
» RE: Priorities... Posted by: xenacat
» What She Said Posted by: rotorooter
» RE: Priorities... Posted by: Frumkinlovesmoney
» RE: Priorities... Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Priorities... Posted by: feduphoosier
» RE: Priorities... Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: Priorities... Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: Priorities... Posted by: nonaste
Priorities indeed!!
Posted by: Quendi on Sep 1, 2005 4:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The criminal gang running the country these daze has a well-defined set of priorities: 1) help the rich get richer, via massive tax cuts, lack of tax-evasion enforcement, changes to the rules such as getting rid of inheritance and capital gains taxes......., 2) diminish the size and scope of government in general - via changing laws (the gutting of envirnomental laws and regulations, which has only just begun, for instance!), regulations and policies, installing conservative ideologues in the nation's courts and anywhere else possible, and by the method Regan called "starving the beast": create massive, unsustainable deficits via huge tax cuts for the wealthy combined with unprecidented levels of military spending, thereby requiring drastic cuts in government services in the long run, and 3) attain and maintain power and control as long as possible and by any and all means necessary.

The loss of the funding required to protect New Orleans from natural dissasters such as Katrina, is a direct result of the warped priorities of the federal government. Look for more of the same in the years to come!!

-Quantum.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Priorities indeed!! Posted by: &one
» RE: Priorities indeed!! Posted by: rinthy
» RE: Priorities indeed!! Posted by: piasano
» Who else you going to cut taxes for? Posted by: greenthinginwater
Dubya's Gamble
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 1, 2005 4:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is another among, literally, hundreds of arguments that make the case for impeaching Bush. Much as he did with September 11th, he'll try to make poitical capital out of this. And as I said on another posing this morning, as he did with 9/11, count on him using this catastrophe as an excuse for doing something really dumb.

When the people of the United States finally understand the basic facts that are presented in this article (I loved the riverboat gambler analogy), that the presedent of the United States, the man who solemnly swore to "faithfully execute" his office (He loves to execute, what was the problem??), that he diverted desperately needed funds for hurrican protection on a tax cut for the richest one percent and an illegal, immoral invasion of a country that was a threat to no one but itself - when the people - WEEDA PEEPOLE, FOLKS - finally come to terms with what this hideous piece of shit did to their country, your country - MY COUNTRY, DAG NAP IT! - They'll run him out of town on a rail.

George W. Bush has done more damage to the United States of America than any of her enemies,past or present, real or imagined could ever have dreamed of doing.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» I Agree Posted by: michele0726
» RE: Dubya's Gamble Posted by: beffie
» RE: Dubya's Gamble Posted by: RonaldBosch
» RE: Dubya's Gamble Posted by: hopewell88
» I agree with you, Tom Posted by: Bluecat
RFK, Jr.
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 1, 2005 5:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh and by the way, Go to today's Yahoo News and read Bobby Kennedy's article - It's great. And while you're at it, go to Amazon.com and order his recent book that exposes, chapter and verse, Bush's war on the environment.
Happy reading, kids!
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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» RE: FK, Jr. Posted by: xenacat
» RE: FK, Jr. what's the link Posted by: billyboy43
Rebuild New Orleans above sea level
Posted by: ggmurray on Sep 1, 2005 5:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It strikes me that once the rescue missions have done all they can, we should give OLD New Orleans back to nature. Build NEW New Orleans somewhere above sea level, where life can reasonably expect to thrive.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Will the MSM hold Bush and his Republican cohorts responsible?
Posted by: sausage on Sep 1, 2005 5:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't even know why I ask such a question. In this case it is merely rhetorical. On last night's Newhour with Jim Lehrer, the only mention of the administration and Congress cutting the Corps of Engineers' budget was a passing reference by Scientific American's editor, John Rennie.

It was known by the Corps, hydrologists and environmental scientists that New Orleans' levee system was a disaster waiting to happen.

Unfortunately in our current religion-happy environment, what has transpired in New Orleans and along the northern Gulf Coast will be chalked up merely as an "act of God." And we will go marrily on our national way holding no one accoutable for what, had it been attended to earlier, should have been preventable.

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Corp of Engineers budget for New Orleans.
Posted by: james on Sep 1, 2005 6:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The president wanted to cut 51 million from the army Corp. of Engineers budget for the New Orleans district. Congress, which sets the Corps budget, voted to cut it a further 20 million, for a total cut of 71.2 million. Cut anything but the big tax cut for the rich. Isn't it curious how this is not reported in the corporate media?

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Why The Levee Broke
Posted by: Dadster3 on Sep 1, 2005 6:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If this article is true, then we can argue--persuasively I think--that in the span of 6 short years we have witnessed the destruction of two of the worlds great cities, and that we can lay the blame for both at the feet of this President and his associates.

A recent guest author on PBS' "The News Hour", who has written extensively on southern Louisiana, said that the cost of bringing the levees up to what would have been required to protect it from Hurricane Katrena was equal to the cost of the war in Iraq for two days. Two Days. Think about it.

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» RE: Why The Levee Broke Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: Why The Levee Broke Posted by: Jayzer
» RE: Why The Levee Broke Posted by: pmgreer1
» RE: Why The Levee Broke Posted by: Dadster3
» RE: Why The Levee Broke Posted by: Jayzer
» RE: Why The Levee Broke Posted by: helenwheels
Barbara
Posted by: Barbara on Sep 1, 2005 7:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm sorry for the people in this disaster area. But,...the thing that I'm most sorry about is the lack of sympathy and support that the USA will get from the rest of the world this time around.
There we were after 9/11 offering our resources, heart felt sympathy, etc, trusting that as the " world leader" that your country would deal with that disaster in an appropriate way. It didn't happen & you blew it. You voted, or chose not to vote , back into Government,...a Government which represents you guys globaly by the way,....you voted back an idiot.
So,...we're sorry for the people that died in this disaster. We're sorry for the people who lost their homes and everything that they had. But,...we're not going to help you out. We're not going to collect money to help your people as we did for Indonesia. We're not too crazy about your disregard for the rest of the world. It's time for you guys to do it yourself and look after each other. Are you up for it ?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Barbara Posted by: Jas1317
» RE: Barbara Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Barbara Posted by: grizzlyuk
» RE: Barbara Posted by: danbroadway
» RE: Barbara Posted by: Jennelle
» RE: Barbara Posted by: demidesigrrl
» Thanks Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Barbara Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» RE: Barbara Posted by: Barbara
» RE: Not So Posted by: The Butcher
This story needs to be told A LOT!!!
Posted by: bookwoman on Sep 1, 2005 7:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I heard the story about the diversion of funding for the levee strenghthening mentioned once yesterday morning. I, personally, haven't heard it repeated until I read it here. Once again, I ask where the broadcast media in on this. This story needs to be talked about, on the airwaves, where most people get their news.

How about it guys?

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Professor of Political Science
Posted by: david.model@senecac.on.ca on Sep 1, 2005 7:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What else is new? Bush has diverted over $200 billion to Iraq in order to commit war crimes (as documented in my latest book "Lying for Empire: How to Commit War Crimes with a Straight Face") and billions to the space program and missile defense. It seems that Bush has a lot of priorites it's just that none of them include the American people.

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» RE: Professor of Political Science Posted by: McCain/Bush '08
» Funds have always been diverted Posted by: greenthinginwater
Well said!
Posted by: bambic on Sep 1, 2005 7:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You beat me to the punch, Tom...what can I say but well said. Let's hear more from you.

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WHAT ABOUT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY?
Posted by: Kneel on Sep 1, 2005 7:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Frumkinlovesmoney (at the top) is right, you people. The American taxpayer can't be expected to do everything.

In a post under Katrina's Economic Impact, Frumkin tells us that New Orleans was (was?) a corrupt city with "one of the most corrupt police departments in the nation."

MY POINT EXACTLY! Why bother dispensing taxpayer dollars to shore up the levees when God, who hates a corrupt police department, is just going to flood the city anyway?

I say it's time for some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILTY here. Why didn't these people have their own equipment to deal with this? They knew they were living in a potential hurricane zone - why didn't individual households purchase their own medical supplies, heavy pumps, lifeboats, helicopters, levees, and so forth?

You want flood control, mister, go buy it yourself. Go down to Home Depot and say, Hello, I'd like to buy a flood control, and then get to work and earn the money to pay for it. You're worried about mosquito-borne disease? Don't expect a hand-out, get off your butt! Buy a can of Raid, rent a helicopter and spend your Saturday spraying the standing water.

You want to rebuild the wetlands that, until a few decades ago, shielded New Orleans from this sort of thing? Get some potting soil and get to work. You want a war in Iraq? Pay for it yourself! Don't expect the American taxpayer to do everything.

And why should it be the *National* guard that deals with this. They're, correctly, busy guarding the nation in Fallujah.

This is a municipal issue, and as such it should be dealt with by the Municipal Guard. Or maybe the Inter-Municipal Guard.

If people were dumb enough have a corrupt police department in a hurricane zone, well, I say that whatever happens is their own damn fault!

How do you tackle these problems? Let the locals choose pay for their OWN issues, or not. It's YOUR responsibility, YOUR choice, and if you screw up, don't ask the American taxpayer for a hand out - just like we did with Iraq. You think Don Rumsfield would come looking for a hand out from the American taxpayer? No way.

That man shows tremendous stoicism and courage in the face of other people's pain and danger. Take a cue from him and show a little backbone. You go into a hurricane with the levees you have, not the levees you need.

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» Nice sarcasm...... Posted by: Diecash1
» RIGHT ON! Posted by: dkm
» RE: IGHT ON! Posted by: Kneel
» RE: IGHT ON! Posted by: helenwheels
» I got it! Posted by: Diecash1
» RE: WHAT ABOUT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY? Posted by: speaktruthpower
» touche kneel Posted by: beetruetoyou
» Or you could simply leave town. Posted by: greenthinginwater
» Having people mature Posted by: Olympiada
» I agree with you too bluecat Posted by: Olympiada
» Those who fail to plan Posted by: greenthinginwater
» Those who fail to plan Posted by: greenthinginwater
» I agree - and this is scary Posted by: Olympiada
Misplaced priorities
Posted by: Pete29 on Sep 1, 2005 8:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Compassionate conservatism at its most ruthless.

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Where to donate?
Posted by: pb120669 on Sep 1, 2005 8:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone have any opinions (laugh!) about where to donate money to help folks in the aftermath? I want my money to go to the infirm, aged, and poor folks who couldn't get out.

Thanks.

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» RE: Where to donate? Posted by: Diecash1
» RE: Where to donate? Posted by: knitter
» RE: Where to donate? Posted by: Yoman
» RE: Where to donate? Posted by: anewport
I'd like to think he'd say....
Posted by: Beth G. on Sep 1, 2005 8:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What does George W. Bush have to say for himself now?

I like to think he'd say, "you've been working with the federal Gov't on this since the 1960s. 40+ freakin' years. Over $500M dollars has been spent on this. And this is the best the crack engineers could come up with? How is this MY fault?"

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» RE: I'd like to think he'd say.... Posted by: helenwheels
Amerika's Biggest (un)Natural Disaster
Posted by: rkewen on Sep 1, 2005 8:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder how happy all the bubba's in the red states of Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama are now with their chosen idiot. This greedy and arrogant administration is the biggest disaster that has ever occurred on American soil, and unfortunately they are a disaster for the whole planet, not just their own country.

I've heard that the southern mansion of racist/facist Trent Lott was completely destroyed by Katrina - there must have been a mix-up with communications to God on that one, isn't Trent on God's side? I will save my compassion for those more deserving than Mr. Lott and only regret that he wasn't home to greet Katrina personally and explain his connections to the big guy upstairs.

By the way that idiot "frumkinlovesmoney" should look into scoring a position in this current administrations of criminals, his username indicates that he worships the same god - money.

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Some much for Homeland preparedness...
Posted by: dpcosteajr on Sep 1, 2005 8:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is going to best an EXCELLENT test and a shocking wake-up call for the governments of Louisanna and the United States. It is as if New Orleans had been hit by the largest of terrorist bombs (attacks, whatever...) and we see first hand how ill prepared they are to deal with the situation!

In my opinion Federal troops, helicopters, and APCs should have been rolling into the area as soon as the weather broke! And what did we see? Days of suffering, unrescued people, no communications (if you believe the mass media) and general chaos. I can't believe they allow ed ANY people to remain on the streets, exit the Superdome, or "loot" any of the undamaged stores!

The NAVY has the air cushioned (LCAC) vehicles, I know because I worked on them! The secretary of the NAVY should have been deploying them towards the Gulf of Mexico before Katrina even left Florida!

I suspect there will be calls for hearings and investigations over the poor response after all this is over. And don't even get me started about the American Red Cross... With all their 'we need you donations now' crap! Sorry! Where have they been over the past year? Sitting on their collective butts and praying a major hurricane didn't hit the U.S.? Duh!? I guess they were "well prepared" too!

Did anyone in any agency imagine only 1,000, 2,000 or 3,000 people would be displaced when the next major storm hit the U.S.?

I know these people are having a tough time right now, but some of them should be ashamed of themselves for stooping to the levels of "looting" and petty theft we have seen. Where does Mr. Looter think he is going to hide that bag of Nike sneakers until he can unload them? Or are they going to hand them out at the Astrodome to the needy families? "Het buddy, where'd you get all them shoes?" Unbelieveable.

Homes, garages, and self storage facilities are going to have to be emptied of their contaminated contents. So no storing anything of value anywhere in the area, that's for sure!

Americans, especially those in crisis, should be able to set a better example.

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Matt Singer of Montana nails the cons on responsibility
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 1, 2005 9:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Assessing Responsibility

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The irony makes my head explode
Posted by: helenwheels on Sep 1, 2005 9:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I simply won't be able to believe it if people don't wake up after this.

The Coward of Crawford struts about saying how "safe" he's keeping Amurka, but how many have died now UNDER HIS WATCH?

And, how many could have been avoided? He was warned about Al Quaeda and 9/11. He was warned about the weak levees.

He did nothing, and now thousands are dead.

He invaded a country that had no ties to 9/11, and killed thousands of them. Nearly 2000 of our own have died for his meaningless war.

He is ruining our country, and hurting not only the U.S. but the world.

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» What are you talking about? Posted by: Olympiada
"Scorched or Flooded, the Situation's the Same"
Posted by: monkeywrench on Sep 1, 2005 9:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So BushCo takes money away from New Orleans' flood control projects for "homeland security." Well, I guess now we'll get to see how secure the nation feels with its largest port, the fifth largest in the world, as well as much of its oil refining, shut down. I doubt that any terrorist attack could have done the damage that has occurred from Katrina, at least in part because of BushCo's stupid funding decisions.

What is it going to take to get President Duh! and his merry band of neoCON thugs out of the White House?!

(By the way, Americans, especially those in the South, should be familiar with the spirit of the Bush agenda – that is, if they remember General Sherman's "scorched earth" march to the sea in the Civil War. . .)

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» Security Posted by: Olympiada
Public Safety is not "pork"!
Posted by: cici on Sep 1, 2005 9:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Pork is everywhere and just because someone got less than they asked for...."

We're not talking about "pork" in the form of federally-funding the promotion of golf. Shoring up levees is not "pork." Preventing this kind of tragedy is not "pork." What is the government for anyway? What are my taxes for anyway? I am proud to pay taxes when they are used wisely for public projects.

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» RE: Public Safety is not "pork"! Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» Frumkin = Johnny-boy Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Frumkin = Johnny-boy Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: Frumkin = Johnny-boy Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Public Safety is not "pork"! Posted by: Johnny-Boy
Government Responsibility
Posted by: dkm on Sep 1, 2005 9:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The last I read, one of the major documents of our country (The Constitution) stated flat out that the function of government is "to promote the general welfare." That includes taking reasonable procedures to prevent foreseeable disasters such as just occurred in Louisiana. Our present administration completely and deliberately failed to comply with its legal obligations, a case of "high crimes and misdemeanors" if there ever was one.

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» RE: Government Responsibility Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: Government Responsibility Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Government Responsibility Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: Government Responsibility Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Government Responsibility Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: Government Responsibility Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Government Responsibility Posted by: Johnny-Boy
You Guys Are Out there!
Posted by: Johnny-Boy on Sep 1, 2005 9:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yikes, I think I've found probably the biggest collection of boneheads since Daily Kos.

What burden of proof do you guys have for the accusations you all toss around? If you heard it on Air America it must be true.

From 5 minutes of reading I've gathered that 1) President Bush stole the election 2) President Bush cut taxes to he and his rich buddies could sit around and smoke cigars lit by $1000 dollar bills and shoot puppies. 3) The hurricane would have never happened had we signed Kyoto, instead New Orleans would be harvesting crops of lollipop fields and chocolate meadows 4) President Bush's plans to invade the moon are taking money away from disaster relief.

My goodness! Reading ya'lls comments is like watching a bunch of children complain about not being able to eat coco-puffs three meals a day.

I'd like to address everything in here, but I think you knuckleheads are too far out to hear the reality shouted at ya'll.

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» RE: You Guys Are Out there! Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: You Guys Are Out there! Posted by: russianblue
» RE: You Guys Are Out there! Posted by: Proteus
» RE: You Guys Are Out there! Posted by: vivachavez
» RE: You Guys Are Out there! Posted by: bqtrain
» RE: You Guys Are Out there! Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: You Guys Are Out there! Posted by: bqtrain
» RE: You Guys Are Out there! Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: You Guys Are Out there! Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: You Guys Are Out there! Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: You Guys Are Out there! Posted by: getafix
» RE: You Guys Are Out there! Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: You Guys Are Out there! Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: You Guys Are Out there! Posted by: johnny-boy2
» Lollipop fields Posted by: Olympiada
» and dont forget this Posted by: aae0310
Why does Bush get blamed for EVERYTHING?
Posted by: nightbrd on Sep 1, 2005 10:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hindsight is 20/20. Should we say Bush is a bad President because for example, he KNOWS San Fransicsco could have an earthquake at any minute and he's not pouring money into retrofitting all the skyscrapers there? How about tornado areas? Should he pour money into all businesses in Kansas and make sure they don't ever blow away? He can't be held accountable for everything that happens. He is taking care of problems as they arise. Who else could say they could make these decisions better? Raise your hand if YOU want to be the world's scapegoat and could do a better job.

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» Because he's the damn leader!!!! Posted by: beetruetoyou
Where is the Left's Accountability??
Posted by: Johnny-Boy on Sep 1, 2005 11:06 AM   
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We hear shrieks and screams from the left already that this is President Bush's fault, with subsequent hysterics about impeachment (which will never happen dorks, grow up).

But for decades, you on the fringe left have tried to gut our defense spending. In one breath you groan about how we pump too much money into the military, then lament about how we're not sending enough man/material/money into the disaster zone.

The military provides the bulk of the support in times like these, but if it were up to you, we would have but a fraction of the resources to respond with.

Then, of course, its President Bush's fault.

And save it with the "there would be plenty to go around, as we would never have sent troops to Iraq." We have plenty of "boots on the ground" in the disaster area, we don't need the Army and Marines as much as we need the Navy and the Air Force for rescue efforts. A couple hundred looters and a lone nutcase with a shotgun -firing at a helicopter- does not warrant the entire 101st Airborne Division. Just a few thousand national guard and reserves.

Had it been up to the folks on this site who love to blame Bush, we would have never had the military infastructure needed for the rescue efforts in the first place.

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» RE: You guys are great! Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: You guys are great! Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: You guys are great! Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: You guys are great! Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: You guys are great! Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: You guys are great! Posted by: maxpayne
Let's quit with the Blame Game!
Posted by: Lizmv on Sep 1, 2005 11:16 AM   
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As tempting as it would be for me to blame Bush, the fact is, he did not throw a hurricane at New Orleans and there is no way he could have stopped it. We most likely could have spent billions there and still had to same outcome. New Orleans was simply a disaster waiting to happen. We need to look and study this very hard as a lesson in really bad urban design. Having to be constantly building and rebuilding levees in order to hold back water in unsustainable.

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» not exactly true..... Posted by: aae0310
Homeland Security???
Posted by: dodmama on Sep 1, 2005 11:18 AM   
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Forget the fact that New Orleans is below sea level ,that the South voted for Bush and that nobody in Congress really cares about middle and lower income families we must focus on the fact that Homeland Security has engulfed FEMA and all funds are diverted to Iraq . The Port of New Orleans is the biggest in this country - one of the 5 biggest in the world. Fully 25%of the oil we comsume is refined in this area- the piplines to the rest of the country run through this area. No matter what the dollar ammount to fix the levee and pumping systems and to insure the viability of surrounding wetlands- a major buffer for such storms- it was petite cash when you consider the cumulative damage to the entire economy and national security. Tax dollars from California,Maine ot Idaho spent in New Orleans or else where in the country benefit us all in the long run. We must question why are taxes are being channeled elsewhere before all of our local and national security and economic issues have not been addressed and met. Our biggest security problems lie not with vague and random terrorist cells but with our government for playing fast and loose with the nations tax money and with it's taxpayers for not loudly demanding accountability and transparency in Congress's fiscal dealings.

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levees are part of the problem
Posted by: jimsenter on Sep 1, 2005 11:20 AM   
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I was born and raised in New Orleans. As we speak, my sister and her family and my mom and cousins, aunts and uncles are part of the refugee stream heading for Texas. So I have a personal and close knowledge of these issues.

While I agree that Bush's budget priorities are MESSED UP and leave many dire needs unmet, building up the levees can only be a stopgap solution, a temporary solution, because the levees are a major part of the problem.

Before the city was built, every spring the river would overflow, depositing sediments from the heartland of the continent over a wide area, building up the delta. By necessity, when the area was settled, levees were built and the river confined to its channel. Spring floods were a thing of the past. And the delta began to sink. The marshes to erode. The natural buffer that in the past protected the city from storms has pretty much disappeared. In large part because levees cut off the supply of sediment that kept the delta alive and growing.

The Corps of engineers has a plan, partially implimented, to artificially mimic this annual flood. The plan is to divert river water through massive pipes and systems of canals out into the marshes, where the sediment it carries can start to build up the delta again. Local politics (You're not gonna flood MY oyster beds!) as much as budget cuts has delayed full implimentation of this project.

So build the levees higher as short term protection. Long term protection of the city can only lie in human ingenuity that mimics the natural processes our actions have disrupted.

Jim Senter
Durham NC

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Phoney Bush Keywords
Posted by: Ray on Sep 1, 2005 11:55 AM   
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Phoney Bush Keywords such as "Democracy", "Safety of American Citizens", "Terrorism", etc. are only false and hollow mockeries of a coward, fraud, and of the King of Terrorists himself. The people of New Orleans have been terrorizied by Bush's greed and support for those rich folks benefiting from tax cuts and Iraq contracts, those he calls "hard working Americans". He, his administration, and their families should be arrested for treason, genocide, terrorism and turned over to the families of those who have died in Iraq and New Orleans.

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» RE: Phoney Bush Keywords Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: Phoney Bush Keywords Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Phoney Bush Keywords Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: Phoney Bush Keywords Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Phoney Bush Keywords Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: Phoney Bush Keywords Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Phoney Bush Keywords Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: Phoney Bush Keywords Posted by: NDnative
Right wing lunatics
Posted by: jeaniew on Sep 1, 2005 11:58 AM   
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Yesterday I was running through discussion groups on another site. The group is a mixed group of liberals and Bushviks, they jumped on the posts concerning this subject on the budget cuts to the Corp of Engineers, I posted all my links which did not help because they think this is some kind of liberal left wing conspiracy theory that we just cooked up off of one of their faux sites about us. I have been runiing into people wanting to blame Governor Blanco for this. I wish I could get this message through , why hasn't the mainstream media been leaked this information.

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Maybe it isn't all Bush's fault?
Posted by: philame on Sep 1, 2005 12:26 PM   
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First off, let me make it clear that I am not a Bush supporter. Calling the Bush Administration incompetent and inept would be an undue compliment so now you know where I stand on that.

But I get confused when I hear people say he has destroyed our "great" country in 6 years. When was it great? Yes, it has greatness in it and it has had and hopefully will continue to have wonderful moments, but it is an exagerration to call our country a "once great nation".

This latest tragedy just shows we collectively don't give a sh** about our own fellow citizens - especially the poor ones. This isn't anything new. Yes, we did have a stronger sense of community earlier in American history, but to be shocked that we didn't come through for our own doesn't make sense to me.

Now, I am not trying to deny us Americans our humanity. I deeply admire the rescue workers there, people in the communities there reaching out and helping each other, everyone making donations. We are not heartless, but there is something deeply flawed in American society that cannot all be put on Bush's shoulders.

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» RE: Maybe it isn't all Bush's fault? Posted by: SometimesLeftWinger
» Thank you! Posted by: Olympiada
Rod from Canada
Posted by: Rod from Canada on Sep 1, 2005 12:29 PM   
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I don't know about anyone else, but (and this is from the perspective of an outsider, of course) I am getting a sense that if Bush and company don't get on the ball VERY quickly and start displaying some competence and leadership when it comes to dealing with the Katrina disaster, that this hurricane and its devasting aftermath may end being to the Bush Administration what the Chernobyl disaster was to the (then) government of the U.S.S.R. I think there are some some disturbing parallels here.

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American Taxpayers DO Pay for Everything
Posted by: LeftCoaster on Sep 1, 2005 12:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't stand it anymore . . . I've avoided AlterNet for several weeks because I read so much balderdash from rightwingers in the comments but I just can't stand it (don't worry, Matt; I'll sink back under my rock again after this).

Infrastructure is precisely why Americans pay taxes. Infrastructure and disaster preparedness. Protecting America from floods is every bit as important as killing citizens of other countries because we've been told it protects our freedom. Tax money goes to both. We elect leaders we hope have the wisdom to put taxes toward defending America but it seems more and more like a crap shoot . . .

It's not possible to misconstrue the rants of those who continually bring up the dead of 9-11 as if they felt some compassion. What about the people of Louisiana who had nowhere to go? What about the people of Mississippi who had nowhere to go? These are working people who pay their taxes; they deserve uniquely American "let's-all-pull-together-ness" in their time of need. Instead, the rightwingers make like Scrooge and mutter about it lessening the surplus population.

Most obnoxious are the ones who say let New Orleans drown. Clearly, they've never set foot there. This wasn't some weather-beaten coastal town with an out-of-business gas station and a broken traffic-light. This was 300 years of history that was so pervasive that it was the city itself, not just a glass-encased memory in a museum. That is not to say that the weather-beaten coastal towns in Mississippi and Alabama don't deserve help as well; the human toll there has been as devastating as 9-11 was to New Yorkers.

One last thing: don't defend Bush because he can't control the weather; he does control FEMA and he is an adult and he does know that two strong hurricanes did a lot of damage in Florida last year and the choice was always his to make. This isn't a high crime but maybe not bringing home the Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama National Guard now is conduct unbecoming.

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» Hold on a minute..... Posted by: aae0310
SETTLEMENT PUBLISHING
Posted by: Settlement Publishing on Sep 1, 2005 1:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In times of devastation, where hurt is all we can feel, certain unalienable rights still apply: Try this one - Poetry!
SUM
INJUSTICE is not ended without wear,
and if it is to you, that it must come,
despite the provocation, or the bear,
consider self, as ransom for its sum.

That placing of thy life upon the strum,
of mind sets rank, contingencies duldrum,
accepting vile fate as wanton hum,
ignoring chronic hurt, its path's succomb.

That rescue of intent, from times unsung,
sing heartily, for within truth's force is from,
conspiring evil's battle, its among,
so commonplace, a cushion of undone.

Oh cruelty's heart - is effort, chaffing's won,
that putting down to weakness, lives its own
self-cruelty, like no bond could faith its hone,
and value its dissension, justice prone.

SEEK LAW, that sum of knowing - of unknown,
gives proving of thy course - is not alone!

Does that sorta explain this corrupted, corrupting, circimstance. When HURT wins over LAWS, we are all
responsible to change something, and have the right!

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» RE: SETTLEMENT PUBLISHING Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: SETTLEMENT PUBLISHING Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: SETTLEMENT PUBLISHING Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: SETTLEMENT PUBLISHING Posted by: jedweber
» RE: SETTLEMENT PUBLISHING Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: SETTLEMENT PUBLISHING Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: SETTLEMENT PUBLISHING Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» Wake up JB!!!!!!!!!! Posted by: Diecash1
Why We Find Fault With Bush (part I)
Posted by: Kneel on Sep 1, 2005 1:10 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think it's legitimate to ask how anyone can blame Bush for a hurricane. This is for those who do.

Pardon the length, but for anyone legitimately wondering, anyone, who, say, gets their info from Fox (or just the Box) and genuinely wonders, I hope this will help you at least to understand where some of us are coming from:

LONG TERM:

Wetlands destruction.

That was carried out over a few decades by a misguided Army Corps of Engineers; they since have developed a plan to rectify it.

Blame on Bush: Little or none. (Little because someone smarter might have actively pushed the reclamation projects, but they still wouldn't have gotten very far by now.)


Global warming.

Warmer ocean = stronger hurricanes. No serious scientist denies global warming, there are just some tobacco-company type "scientists" keeping tobacco-company type arguments afloat.

Blame on Bush: Some, for propping up the greedhead argument and preventing work on the problem.


Cutting funding for shoring up the levees.

This is sort of like the way they're dealing with everything. Unless they can figure ways for Bush friends and family to make obscene profits off it, they're not interested. Protecting the populace from something as unflashy as, say, tuberculosis, well, if you get that, it's your own damn fault.

We're very lucky not to have an attack on the ports (wouldn't take level half a city) or, say, a nuclear power plant (see Rory Kennedy's film on the subject - a small-scale attack could make the NYC region briefly uninhabitable, if we use "briefly" in geological terms). They're willing to pour $300 billion into Iraq while leaving key potential terrorist targets at home defenseless. Weird.

And while it's true that nothing currently existing would have protected the city in the event of a direct hit from a category 5 hurricane... the city wasn't hit by a category 5 hurricane. On Monday, the people of NO were celebrating because Katrina missed.

And then the levee broke.

Blame on Bush: Full.


SHORT TERM

Prior to the event, everyone knew it was coming and, in fact, feared it would actually be much worse. We knew when it would hit and roughly where.

So, what did our beloved administration do? ...

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Why We Find Fault With Bush (part II)
Posted by: Kneel on Sep 1, 2005 1:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...

...

...

Time's up. Oh, sorry, you missed that one, and now the Whitman family has a chance to steal. (Give us a kiss, darlin'.)

Why is that days later he's finally ordering up National Guard troops, that troops are... on their way? Why wasn't that done immediately... like BEFORE it even struck. Shouldn't they have been ready to go in as soon as the storm passed, like by that night? They could have set up staging areas in Texas and been in place Monday night.

Why isn't the area filled with Navy and Coast Guard personnel in everything from Zodiacs to hovercrafts (the LCHCs mentioned above) effecting rescues and so forth? Why aren't there enough helicopters?

(And if some whacko's shooting his shotgun at them, well, there aren't many who would oppose shooting back. Sorry dude, you shoot at air ambulances, you get fitted for a pair of Air Deadguys. But where are the helicopters that can do that?)

Might it have made sense to bring back the local National Guard units from Iraq, to be ready to roll in immediately? Because this is exactly what most of us thought the National Guard was for, to protect the... nation (hence the "National" part of the name) at home, whether it's from a terrorist attack or from God smiting a city because he hates a corrupt police force so much (which He really does, almost as much as sodomites).

What about temporarily scaling back operations overseas to gear up for this?

And doesn't anyone else see it as unconscionable, utterly unconscionable, that they, we, just left the people of the area to fend for themselves (uh... find a motel or something)? Why weren't army bases and other facilities made available to house these people? Why haven't they been made available now?

Blame on Bush: Full.

(Except for shotgun dude.)

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Why We Find Fault With Bush (part III)
Posted by: Kneel on Sep 1, 2005 1:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
AFTERMATH:

Where was our dear George after this thing had ripped through? Surely hunkered down in the crisis center, demanding constant updates, insisting that engineering teams be dangled from helicopters onto all the levees to make sure they were sound (seeing, because he's so smart, a danger that hadn't yet occurred to others), demanding all those drug interdiction planes be using their sophisticated thermal imaging to search for survivors, bringing in backup generators, moving all sorts of equipment into place as fast as possible... coordinating the recovery.

Oh, wait... he was off in San Diego, trying to drum up support for Iraq, because clearly that was top priority at the moment (for him, it was).

True to form, the main response from the Presidential level seems to be to... tap the Strategic Petroleum Reserve.

Why has the city been left to fend for itself for days, the people in it stranded and desperate? Why are they *just now* looking for locations to house the refugees?

Blame on Bush: Hmmmm.


Actually I don't know that I really blame Bush. The guy was in San Diego at the crisis was exploding because he's just a figurehead, and this is like his response to 9/11, or non-response. While planes hit buildings, the guy gave no orders, took no action, did everything but throw his hands in the air and scream "every man for himself" as he fled to Oklahoma. And for this people praised him?

It's really the (Reagan Redux) administration. You may think those of us who criticize Bush or the administrations policies somehow don't like America (which makes us much sense as equating criticizing the Postal Service with hating America), but in fact, we know that America is full of wonderfully compassionate people.

How many Americans feel that these people should have been left to fend for themselves this long, from the failure to shore up the levees over the past few years, to the evacuation, to the horrible chaos they're stuck in now?

And that's why, though hurricane is an act of God (who's simply mad about a corrupt police force, apparently), some people find fault with the Bush administration's preparation for it, and their response to it. We feel it's our society (hijacked by these greedheads) and we want to see those people helped, and fast. Like, yesterday.

Or last week.

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» Troll? Posted by: Olympiada
Don't Feed the Troll
Posted by: demidesigrrl on Sep 1, 2005 1:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Johnny-boy's first comment should have been clue enough that he is the one who is "out there". Some people made attempts to engage him/her/it in a "reality-based" discourse but clearly that wasn't the agenda. Like most neo-cons and Bush apologits (misspelling on purpose), J-b just wanted to perform the internet equivalent of jumping up and down with his fingers in his ears, hollering "nyanyanee boo boo".

BTW, Johnny-boy, it's nice to see frumkin has one little friend. But you should know that most of the world thinks people like you and your president are dangerous sociopathic morons who ought to be stopped from destroying the rest of us. Peace.

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» RE: Don't Feed the Troll Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: Don't Feed the Troll Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Don't Feed the Troll Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: Don't Feed the Troll Posted by: maxpayne
» Trolls have a purpose ... Posted by: aswgt@ix.netcom.com
» RE: Trolls have a purpose ... Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: Trolls have a purpose ... Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Trolls have a purpose ... Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: Trolls have a purpose ... Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: Trolls have a purpose ... Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Trolls have a purpose ... Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» Funny but why? Posted by: Olympiada
» The same thing that always sparks it. Posted by: greenthinginwater
» Amen to the truth Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Don't Feed the Troll Posted by: aae0310
Prepare for Disasters Don't Create Them
Posted by: barrys new conversations on Sep 1, 2005 1:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In growth we trust.Bush and Congress don't get paid to be prudent. They can't wait for a natural disaster to come along. They have to spend money now. So they to do a man- made one like Iraq. Special interests that include evangelism by way of democracy in the Middle East,protecting shrinking Israel from the growing muslim populations and the ever war ready military-industrial complex are very strong lobbies. In Washington they follow the lobbies and the money. They don't follow prudent policies like preparing for disasters.

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Listen to Nature
Posted by: 1rufus1 on Sep 1, 2005 1:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fighting nature is a monumental task. Millions upon millions of dollars could have reinforced the levees enough to withstand this epic storm, but we will never know. But in the aftermath, do we have to make the same mistake twice? The mistake being that of building a city of over a million people in a "bathtub" made of earthen walls trying to protect its citizens and buildings against hurricanes, floods, and heavy rains. The troubles of reclaiming land and trying to protect them has been no secret in this delta region for decades. Sometimes you have to surrender to nature or pay a heavy price to fight her. Maybe abandoning a city rich in culture and history is no answer, but maybe its the only reasonable one. Build it back on the high ground. This is what nature's trying to tell us.

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What they're saying on AM talk radio...
Posted by: getafix on Sep 1, 2005 1:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I spend part of my commute listening to and occasionally calling in to AM talk radio shows, in addition to BBC, Pacifica, NPR and a little AirAmerica. Funny, but the story they're repeating ad nauseum is a claim that Clinton declined an Army Corps request to shore up levees in New Orleans--not a scratch about budget cuts to an existing program under Bush. Though I've heard the claim many times, I've yet to hear any reference on their version of the story. This seems to be the usual pre-emptive PR stunt, but it's also good to be able to factually respond to the Clinton claim. Has anyone dug deeper on this one?

The other big item for Rush, Sean, and especially the local dumasses is the shrill whine "Where are the other countries offering their assistance?". The funniest one was Jeff Katz wondering aloud why Iraq wasn't rushing aid to New Orleans. One of his callers then suggested they fill the levee with bodies of dead Iraqis, and the host laughed and pretended not to understand what he'd just heard, "Sometimes you just have to say, 'Thanks for the call' and hang up." This is an extreme example of a typical AM radio maneuvre: Whip up the listeners into a frenzie and let the callers say on air what the host would really like to express, but can't: vitreolic racism, xenophobia, and homophobia, i.e. the core 'conservative' values.

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SoCalPundit
Posted by: SoCalPundit on Sep 1, 2005 2:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just wanted to quickly add here that it seems an improper time to try to assess blame here. If (as many have written on these pages) the problem of the levies has been around for a long time that there is penty of blame to go around.

I for one am tired of hearing the left blame Bush for everything bad that happens yet have been silent on the good things that have happened as if only the bad is worth talking about.

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» ummm...We're waiting Posted by: beetruetoyou
Johnny Boy Has too much free time
Posted by: nitsua1023 on Sep 1, 2005 3:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Get a job Johnny Boy, you have made about a hundred posts today. Are you sitting at home in a dark room in your underwear, wasting your entire day on a website which you know is will consistently disagree with you? Do you really have all day to just sit there and get nothing done? Do you tune your radio to Air America and yell back at it all day until you are exhausted and out of breath. You talk about helping the folks down here in Louisiana, but it looks like you have all day to get absolutely wank done to help out anybody. So you can spend all day here posting comments, but you look really pathetic. Why not make your point and move on. We are all really sad for you. : (

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» I can translate Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: I can translate Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» you're welcome sir Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: I can translate Posted by: cyclone
» A nice Christian girl Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: I can translate Posted by: johnny-boy2
» Vulgar language, why? Posted by: Olympiada
Hypocrisy
Posted by: Olympiada on Sep 1, 2005 5:59 PM   
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I am reading this article late in the day, after 187 comments. Hypocrisy. That is what I garner from this article about our government.

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death by inches
Posted by: thunderstar on Sep 1, 2005 6:55 PM   
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NEW ORLEANS:
genocide by the shrubbery.

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touche!
Posted by: beetruetoyou on Sep 1, 2005 7:30 PM   
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what more can i say?

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» RE: touche! Posted by: beetruetoyou
touche kneel
Posted by: beetruetoyou on Sep 1, 2005 7:35 PM   
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what more can i say? i can't believe how many ignorant people there are in this country.

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» RE: touche kneel Posted by: beetruetoyou
CNN is coming back from the dead
Posted by: Falang on Sep 1, 2005 10:26 PM   
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Since the war in Iraq CNN was a pale shade of what it was before, but tonight it start to change with Anderson Cooper when he had enough of the politician shoulder padding, here is the transcript:

SEN. MARY LANDRIEU (D), LOUISIANA: Anderson, there will be plenty of time to discuss all of those issues, about why, and how, and what, and if. But, Anderson, as you understand, and all of the producers and directors of CNN, and the news networks, this situation is very serious and it's going to demand all of our full attention through the hours, through the nights, through the days.

Let me just say a few things. Thank President Clinton and former President Bush for their strong statements of support and comfort today. I thank all the leaders that are coming to Louisiana, and Mississippi, and Alabama to our help and rescue.

We are grateful for the military assets that are being brought to bear. I want to thank Senator Frist and Senator Reid for their extraordinary efforts.

Anderson, tonight, I don't know if you've heard -- maybe you all have announced it -- but Congress is going to an unprecedented session to pass a $10 billion supplemental bill tonight to keep FEMA and the Red Cross up and operating.

COOPER: Excuse me, Senator, I'm sorry for interrupting. I haven't heard that, because, for the last four days, I've been seeing dead bodies in the streets here in Mississippi. And to listen to politicians thanking each other and complimenting each other, you know, I got to tell you, there are a lot of people here who are very upset, and very angry, and very frustrated.

And when they hear politicians slap -- you know, thanking one another, it just, you know, it kind of cuts them the wrong way right now, because literally there was a body on the streets of this town yesterday being eaten by rats because this woman had been laying in the street for 48 hours. And there's not enough facilities to take her up.

Do you get the anger that is out here?

LANDRIEU: Anderson, I have the anger inside of me. Most of the homes in my family have been destroyed. Our homes have been destroyed. I understand what you're saying, and I know all of those details. And the president of the United States knows those details.

Part two on the next comment ...

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CNN is coming back from the dead Part two
Posted by: Falang on Sep 1, 2005 10:29 PM   
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COOPER: Well, who are you angry at?

LANDRIEU: I'm not angry at anyone. I'm just expressing that it is so important for everyone in this nation to pull together, for all military assets and all assets to be brought to bare in this situation.

And I have every confidence that this country is as great and as strong as we can be do to that. And that effort is under way. COOPER: Well, I mean, there are a lot of people here who are kind of ashamed of what is happening in this country right now, what is -- ashamed of what is happening in your state, certainly.

And that's not to blame the people who are there. It's a desperate situation. But I guess, you know, who can -- I mean, no one seems to be taking responsibility.

I mean, I know you say there's a time and a place for, kind of, you know, looking back, but this seems to be the time and the place. I mean, there are people who want answers, and there are people who want someone to stand up and say, "You know what? We should have done more. Are all the assets being brought to bare?"

LANDRIEU: Anderson, Anderson...

COOPER: I mean, today, for the first time, I'm seeing National Guard troops in this town.

LANDRIEU: Anderson, I know. And I know where you are. And I know what you're seeing. Believe me, we know it. And we understand, and there will be a time to talk about all of that. Trust me.

I know what the people are suffering. The governor knows. The president knows. The military officials know. And they're trying to do the very best they can to stabilize the situation.

Senator Vitter, our congressional delegation, all of us understand what is happening. We are doing our very, very best to get the situation under control.

But I want to thank the president. He will be here tomorrow, we think. And the military is sending assets as we speak.

So, please, I understand. You might say I'm a politician, but I grew up in New Orleans. My father was the mayor of that city. I've represented that city my whole life, and it's just not New Orleans. It's St. Bernard, and St. Tammany, and Plaquemines Parish that have been completely underwater.

Our levee system has failed. We need a lot of help. And the Congress has been wonderful to help us, and we need more help.

Go to part three

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CNN is coming back from the dead Part three
Posted by: Falang on Sep 1, 2005 10:31 PM   
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Nobody's perfect, Anderson. Everybody has to stand up here. And I know you understand. So thank you so much for everything you're doing.

COOPER: Well, I appreciate you joining us on the program tonight. I can only imagine how busy you are. Thank you very much, Senator Landrieu.

LANDRIEU: Thank you, Anderson. Thank you so much. Thank you.

COOPER: And good luck to you and all the people working to solve this problem. Because, at this point, it is very hard to try to figure our how this problem is going to get solved. There was a desperate search that we have been following for a baby. We have some great news. This baby has just been found. We're going to talk to the parents of this child. We are just getting this information in. Stay with us. There is a lot ahead to talk about in this next hour.

It was a great tv moment to see a journalist going at a politician, we did not see that in the last few years.

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State's Issue
Posted by: Imjetta on Sep 1, 2005 11:42 PM   
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To say it's the Feds responsibility to keep the levees secure is garbage. The responsibility falls squarely on the State of Louisana. The Feds should help, but not provide the bulk of the monies to do this.
New Orleans was built on a silt bed in the first place. This was not George Bushs doing.

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» RE: State's Issue Posted by: cyclone
» RE: State's Issue Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: State's Issue Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: State's Issue Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: State's Issue Posted by: cyclone
» RE: State's Issue Posted by: cyclone
» Wrong again! Posted by: Diecash1
Barnacle Bill
Posted by: Barnacle Bill on Sep 2, 2005 6:49 AM   
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Most of the posters to this report are wrong in saying the President doesn't care what's happening in New Orleans. He cares a great deal. What he's thinking, right now, is, "What a valuable exercise in the implementation of martial law. This will be handy later on."

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» RE: Barnacle Bill Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Barnacle Bull Posted by: dpcosteajr
» RE: Barnacle Bill Posted by: girlygirl
Counter Point
Posted by: mvbmab on Sep 2, 2005 7:13 AM   
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I don't buy into this liberal CRAP that Washington knew about this problem. The people of New Orleans knew full well what could happen, and yet they continued to live in an area that frankly was a disaster waiting to happen. It's not governments job to take care of us when we are stupid...

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» RE: Counter Point Posted by: grizzlyuk
» RE: Counter Point Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: Counter Point Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Counter Point Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: Counter Point Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Counter Point Posted by: Johnny-Boy
» RE: Counter Point Posted by: Diecash1
» RE: Counter Point Posted by: johnny-boy2
FUTURE DISASTERS - planning; States' responsibility
Posted by: dpcosteajr on Sep 2, 2005 9:44 AM   
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So the use of military facilities looks like it may come into play as I suggested in earlier comments. This morning you see Armored Personnel Carriers (APCs), more helicopters, fire trucks, pickup truck and SCHOOL BUSES rolling into New Orleans as hoped! BUT who wants to make a multi-hour journey from Louisanna to Texas in a unairconditioned school bus? But late than never I suppose, better some help than none.

(Coincidentially, I have been to both Lackland AFB and Kelly AFB.)

FOR THE FUTURE - FEMA

FEMA, the agency responsible for insuring American survive a natural or man-made disaster, I suggest the construction of a very secure, self-contained, national refugee center (NRC) or displaced persons support facility (DPSF) somewhere in the United States. In should have rooms for thousands, on-site hospitals (moth-balled but ready to roll in 24 hours or less), power generation capabilities (including solar if possible), cafeterias, underground fuel stores (if only for emergency vehicles), repair garages, and aircraft landing facilities.

How to make this possible?

If the Federal Government is not prepared to allocate budget for this project, then Congress can assess each state at risk a PERCENTAGE of the overall cost based on the likelihood of a natural disaster occuring in their state. Hi California! Low Nebraska. And a seperate PERCENTAGE based on the likelihood of the state being a target of terrorism. A pretty simple formula, don't you think?

If we want to be really prepared, two "mirror" DPSF facilities could be constructed, one nearer the east coast, and the other nearer the Rocky mountains. Each one of these COULD employ at least some of the survivors of hurricane Katrina, those who have lived through this disaster, and educational facilities COULD be included on-site to train the presently untrained, out-of-work, no-home-to-return-to, but able bodied survivors. It might be a blessing to them and give them hope for the short-term future.

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What"s it Gonna Take
Posted by: stoney13 on Sep 2, 2005 11:22 AM   
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What the hell is it gonna take to get rid of this faccist bastard, any way? You'd think that the Iraq debacle would have done it, but the right-wing pundits in the corporate mouthpiece news media made sure nobody got the scoop untill little Georgie had stolen another one. I typed" I hate Bush" in the search bar of "Netscape" yesterday and got 4,800,000 hits! IMPEACH THIS ASSWIPE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

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» RE: What"s it Gonna Take Posted by: josepi
» RE: What"s it Gonna Take Posted by: johnny-boy2
Professor of Political Science.
Posted by: PeaceDiva on Sep 2, 2005 8:38 PM   
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Amen, tell the truth and shame the devil. Bush lied about Saddam, started an illegal war and squandered 187 billion dollars of our money. Money that we need now. We also need our national guards and soliders who are in Iraq wasting their time and their lives.

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In Dire Straits
Posted by: pot8821 on Sep 2, 2005 9:20 PM   
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NOT only are Bush and and his administration failing to react, but congress, other parts of government, and even the locally elected officials of these areas (mainly the officials of the states in which the coastal cities were majorly hit- Loisiana {i.e. New Orleans}, Alabama {Mobile}, and Missippi {Biloxi}) are sitting around with no clue on what to do, and these are officials elected by the people, both republican AND democrat that have either just left or havent the slightest idea how to deal with this. Hell, the governor of missippi was on CNN via phone with Larry King last night talking about how he wouldnt tolerate looting, how the situation looked bad, and how he had a warm bed and running water. Are these the kind of people we elect as americans? Why do we not look upon ourselves, upon this test to our leadership, and realize that this two party system this nation has married is a sham. This is a failure of our leadership, leaders up to the highest echelons of power are failing us, and have failed to react in a manner in accordance to a tragedy on this scale, doesnt matter if your a consertative or liberal, this is a clear sign of the failure of our two leading parties.

The only people I know are doing anything now are the generals and leaders of our armed forces. Right now, as i type this, Active Duty personnel, (many who are veterans of iraq, including a cousin I have based in Texas in the 1st Calvary Division-ie an armored division with necessary amphibious armored personnel carriers for deep water- he left for New Orleans around 4 this afternoon), they are en route from bases in texas and georgia to provide aide, and security to the evacuation of the city

This is most clearly a failure of our elected officials. I hope americans will look at this in the future and see that our 2 party system only employs rich boys with no concept of real leadership.

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why
Posted by: the_one_neo on Sep 3, 2005 11:57 AM   
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I don`t think now is the right time for american people to be sitting on the internet blaming each other, what happened to a great nation getting behind one another in times of need! leave the blaming until after the last human soul has been saved.I am not american and will be the first to admit that i know nothing about politics (nor do i want to know) but it disgusted me to hear this morning Bush suggest that the people of new orleans should take some consulation out of this disaster becouse out of this they will get a new city even greater city than before.Who writes his speeches? Is this what a great leader should say? I feel for every soul affected by this disaster as not one of them is to blame. If you have to blame somebody blame mother nature and stop that man making silly speeches

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» RE: why Posted by: johnny-boy2
What is the point of all this discussion?
Posted by: Olympiada on Sep 3, 2005 8:11 PM   
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I have just read through a lot of these threads and I am dismayed by the mud slinging and name calling and vulgarity. To what purpose? To what avail? So we are all mad and frustrated. What good is it going to do to tear each other down? That energy would be better used to write to our representatives informing them of our ideas. I know when I can get my desk cleared off of all my other responsibilites and things put away, there are a few things I have to say to my representatives.
That would be a much better use of our intellligence then putting each other down.
Let's act like diplomats, shall we?

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» Advice Posted by: Olympiada
Steve in Indy
Posted by: IndyElliott on Sep 4, 2005 5:06 PM   
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Tune in to 60 minutes right now.

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This is exactly what I hate to see
Posted by: josepi on Sep 4, 2005 7:29 PM   
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I hate it when people bitch and argue and do everything BUT find a logical middle ground. All some of these comments say sometimes is "I hate you! You're a rightist! I'll rape you, your dog and your mother!" I think it's time we stop fighting and start trying to get along. Division will not allow us to move through this tragedy. What we need is co-operation, donation, and participation. If rightists don't give a red cent to a this cause because it would hurt their figurtive pile... fine... let apathy on their end reign. That means that it's up to everyone else, be they democrats, republicans, socialists, greeners, or whomever to lead this effort because obviously junior (who was vacationing AGAIN!!!) isn't doing enough with enough speed to quell this tragedy. This is NOT an American version of the tsunami tragedy, this is in fact, a completely different happening with a similar out come. I just hope that the support will be as rapid and well recieved though I have heard reports of junior turning down an offer from the russians.

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This is what I meant
Posted by: josepi on Sep 4, 2005 11:07 PM   
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There are a couple of things in your reply I specifially wanted to get across about the way business is conducted on this site.

First problem: You took an ignorable shot at my username.

Second: I fail to see the intellegence in any of your statements. I didn't realize accepting aid from our Russian Allies was a matter of pride. I'm pretty sure it has to do with Condi who was a professor on matters dealing with the KGB in the cold war which has been over for almost 15 years now. I don't see where Laura divorcing herself from Junior would really promote change outside of changing the headlines on CNN and FOX for a few days.

My statements weren't meant for a laugh. What they were meant for was a stop to all this "OUR OPINIONS DIFFER SO YOU SHOULD DIE AND BE RAPED TWICE" bickering that exists on political forums. It really demeans what the author of the article is trying to say when some one won't even consider both sides of the issue that the author is trying to present.

Sorry if you felt that this was worth a laugh.

And no, "josepi" is not a play on Joseph Stalin.

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» Hey what's the fighting for? Posted by: Olympiada
The Levees Broke per design
Posted by: c0pperhead on Sep 5, 2005 9:20 AM   
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New Orleans, for all of its grandeur, is a city with a very high percentage of low income and poverty level inhabitants. It was known, that these areas would be the most devastated and documented in every study and hurricane disaster model of the last decade. These people were expendable. What is wanted, is their property, a precious commodity in New Orleans, being held by the most indigent peoples of America, the Indians of a land to be taken by the new settlers. How can the land grab be achieved without being too obvious? It has to be done in steps.

Step 1: Allow the Levees to fail.
Stop funding for all levee improvement projects in the affected area.

Step 2: Establish a Supreme Court Precedent for non-imminent domain Land Grabs .
A recent Supreme court ruling allows municipalities to seize property which generate low amounts of tax revenue, so that a higher tax base entity can occupy that space.

Step 3: Await a natural disaster, and assist the levee breaks if necessary.
The levees needed to break in specific areas, and the pumps needed to fail, for this plan to work.

Step 4: Delay response to insure a high casualty count.

Step 5: Delay assistance those sheltered in the Superdome and Convention Center.
Conditions had to be made, that would make residents want to leave, such as no food, no water, no sanitary conditions, and no security.

Step 6: Kill anyone who refuses to leave.
Tell the media that they were gang-bangers, and drug dealers.

Step 7: Condemn all the property in the flooded areas.
For public health and safety reasons, all the houses in the flooded area must be condemned and demolished.

Step 8: Delay relocation from the refugee camps.
The refugees must be so frustrated by the living conditions within the new camps that they are willing to do anything.

Step 9: Relocate the refugees to new housing.
Pre-manufactured housing is to be made available to all families who were relocated,
not back in New Orleans, but in the areas in which they were relocated.

Step 10: Renovate the flooded areas.
The levees will now be reconstructed to sustain damage by Category 4 or greater hurricanes. More pumps, waterways, and secondary levees will be put in place to prevent future flooding. New expensive homes will be built.

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» RE: The Levees Broke per design Posted by: johnny-boy2
» RE: The Levees around your brain. Posted by: dpcosteajr
As you wish.
Posted by: kelly.nickell on Sep 5, 2005 3:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Preparing for the next round of this crap should be of the utmost importance.

We should all be looking at the protections afforded us at the local, state, and federal levels. I suggest we all read closely just how much money has been pilfered from our coffers to keep Haliburton, ExxonMobile, SAIC, KB&R, and about a hundred others in share holders good graces.

Portions of this country have areas near by that are flood plains protected by levees. Do not let anyone tell you that The Corps of Engineers is not in need of money right now, they are.

We have major transportation arteries that pass through these areas. We have rivers that carry a great amount of our imported goods. We have refineries in areas where flood waters will sack them, earthquakes that will destroy them and any number of other fun weather problems you see on the weather channel which, on any given day are likely to create yet another burble in our collective economic gullet.

Your leaders are elected with a certain amount of trust placed in them to act in the best interest of the one what brung 'em. Unfortunately, the one what brung 'em has the money to do so. You and I have lost that right, through our old dogged belief that people will undoubtedly do the right think in the presence of large sums of money.

Good, bad, blue, or red, we have been busy leading our lives and letting the kids take over the candy store. I admonish every last one of us to drag up every last shred of knowledge about our surroundings and call the spade for what it is: A short little mesquite tree with sharp thorns and deep roots that is hard to kill and grows all over the place in Texas. It is great for smoking barbeque, but little else. Just a shrub and nothing more.

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ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY - CUREALL FOR ENVIRONMENTAL RACISM
Posted by: Settlement Publishing on Sep 5, 2005 9:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is like finding a meal in a "stay-sack!" Yes, it is devastating to be homeless, not knowing how to keep your lunch box filled, and wearing hand me downs. But when it comes to the "nice" neighborhoods, and the "nice" jobs??
In February of 1994, his first year in office, Pres. Bill Clinton made environmental justice a national priority, along with trimming the Federal Budget. I know, this was my first year of retirement, and my first check was delayed. Consider the source! But in commenting about the environmental disaster, well certainly a Hurricane is a Hurricane, - but a POLICY of deferring funds from the darker races, to have the darker races, fight against the darker races - how ENVIRONMENTAL
can one get? Just asking???

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Another Royal Comments on the Commoner's Plight
Posted by: decembrist on Sep 5, 2005 10:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Distant & Almighty Queen speaks of the refugees now huddling in a stadium in Texas:

"What I’m hearing which is sort of scary is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality.

"And so many of the people in the arena here, you
know, were underprivileged anyway, so this--this (she
chuckles slightly) is working very well for them."

www.editorandpublisher.com/

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» Long live the queen..... Posted by: aae0310
I love Alter-Net
Posted by: johnny-boy2 on Sep 6, 2005 9:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you post opinions that do not jive with their own, they block you.

For all the talk of "fascism" on this blog, perhaps a gentle reminder to the gang would be in order. Suppressing thoughts/ideas that do not fall into line with your own is a tell-tale sign of an authoritarian rule...whether you are running a blog or a nation-state.

Thank you Alter-Net, for giving me another reason to hold my head-high when debating with angry socialists.

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» They block you? Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: They block you? Posted by: johnny-boy2
» Are you serious about Reagan? Posted by: Olympiada
DID BUSH NOT GIVE NORTHCOM THE ORDER TO HELP?
Posted by: johnny-boy2 on Sep 6, 2005 10:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
U.S. Northern Command says "he certainly did."

Read. You might learn something about the process that you all so harshly criticized (without knowing a darned thing about it, I might add.)

From NORTHCOM's spokesperson...

"USNORTHCOM was prepositioned for response to the hurricane, but as per the National Response Plan, we support the lead federal agency in disaster relief — in this case, FEMA. The simple description of the process is the state requests federal assistance from FEMA which in turn may request assistance from the military upon approval by the president or Secretary of Defense. Having worked the hurricanes from last year as well as Dennis this year, we knew that FEMA would make requests of the military — primarily in the areas of transportation, communications, logistics, and medicine. Thus we began staging such assets and waited for the storm to hit.

The biggest hurdles to responding to the storm were the storm itself — couldn't begin really helping until it passed — and damage assessment — figuring out which roads were passable, where communications and power were out, etc. Military helos began damage assessment and SAR on Tuesday. Thus we had permission to operate as soon as it was possible. We even brought in night SAR helos to continue the mission on Tuesday night.

The President and Secretary of Defense did authorize us to act right away and are not to blame on this end. Yes, we have to wait for authorization, but it was given in a timely manner."

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How dumb can you be?
Posted by: aae0310 on Sep 7, 2005 7:57 PM   
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First off......I think anyone who stayed behind that had a means to leave should be arrested. They hindered the abilty of the local authorities to evacuate anyone. There were over a quarter million people who stayed. Dont tell me all of them were to poor to leave! Precious time and resources were wasted. Those resources could have been put to saving the truely helpless. Also, I see alot of volenteer rescue workers. So why do I see so many African American able bodied males waiting to be bussed out? Why arent they volenteering in thier home city. And as far as the stadium goes.....the criminally insane locals ruined a safe haven. I have yet to see anything that even closely resembles racism. Look at all the charity. Do you think it came from african americans? What I do see when I look at the facts is that there was plenty of black-on-black crime. I may sound politically incorrect, but that is what I see. It is as plain as day. If reporters would bother to leave the area in question, and ventured out to where the home owners are, they would get a diferent perspective of what is going on. But they wont, because those people will not bash or blame the president. Yeah! I saw Bush do it. He was standing in the gulf with a giant fan re-directing the storm. If you want to blame him for the levees, do so. But you also have to blame every president since Kennedy for the same reason. ....and why hasnt the state put up any money for the levees. We tax payers put up 430 million in less than ten years. Thats alot of money. What has New Orleans put up? Has anyone thought of Florida. They have been killed over and over. That has taken up plenty of emergency funding in the past few years. I hear plenty of people saying things like "why dont they move?" "Why do they keep rebuilding in the same place?". I have also heard similar in reference to the Mississippi flooding. But God forbid if we say anything about New Orleans. One thing that really sickens me.....the blame started before they even finished getting people from the rooftops. Politics as usual..........

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» RE: How dumb can you be? Posted by: budwanda
The title is totally untrue!
Posted by: ddevonb on Sep 12, 2005 2:58 PM   
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"Why the levee broke" is a totally untrue headline.

Even if every dollar of funding had been approved by the Bush administration it wouldn't have made any difference.

Any projects that might have been approved would still be years away from completion and would not have prevented the flooding in any way.

None of the damage was preventable by President Bush. It would however be true that if these levees are never built to withstand a category 5 storm the city will always be vulnerable.

To single out President Bush is totally unfair when not a single past President has proposed building the levees to withstand a category 5 hurricane.

A massive project like this would have been started many years ago to have helped in 2005.

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» RE: The title is totally untrue! Posted by: thisthreadisdumb
» RE: The title is totally untrue! Posted by: thisthreadisdumb
swb
Posted by: swbtmis on Sep 20, 2006 11:11 AM   
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It is sept 20, 2006 and New Orleans has barely been
cleaned up.

Buck Fush and people who think he is a good president.

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