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Investigating Pat Robertson

By Deborah James, AlterNet. Posted August 25, 2005.


His frightening public call to assassinate Hugo Chávez is consistent with the U.S. government's hostile stance toward Venezuela -- but that doesn't mean it should go unpunished.

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On Monday, August 22nd, right-wing televangelist Pat Robertson called for the assassination of democratically elected President Hugo Chávez of Venezuela.

Robertson (a candidate for the GOP´s Presidential nomination in 1992) and the millions of supporters of his television show, The 700 Club, are a key constituency of the Republican party.

In his Monday show, Robertson said, "If [Chavez] thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it."

In an apparent reference to past US invasions of countries like Vietnam and Iraq, he added that "It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war. We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. … It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with."

President Bush, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert, and House Majority Leader Tom DeLay should be lining up to condemn -- in the strongest terms possible -- such immoral statements from a leader of their political base. Instead, State Department spokesperson Sean McCormack merely referred to Robertson's statement as "inappropriate."

Calling for terrorist homicide against a democratically elected president is not merely "inappropriate" -- it is illegal, unethical, and it must be investigated for potential violations of federal and international law.

Fortunately, there are a few Congresspeople who understand the implications of this extremist act. Representative Serrano said the comments were "beyond the pale." Representative Lee chimed in that "President Bush should quickly and clearly condemn Pat Robertson's call for the assassination of the democratically elected leader of Venezuela, particularly since his new Undersecretary of State for Public Diplomacy, Karen Hughes, has appeared on Robertson's show."

In addition, the National Council of Churches stated: "Pat Robertson's call for the murder of Venezuela President Hugo Chavez is appalling to the point of disbelief. It defies logic that a clergyman could so casually dismiss thousands of years of Judaeo-Christian law, including the commandment that we are not to kill."

Reverend Jesse Jackson, Jr. said that Robertson's "rhetoric, especially if taken to their conclusion, only undermines international diplomacy and dialogue, and has no place in today's world."

On Monday Venezuelan Vice President José Vincent Rangel noted in a Caracas press conference: "Before, they were openly calling for Chávez's overthrow, now the call is to assassinate him."

The next day, Robertson "clarified" his comments, incredulously stating that "I didn't say 'assassination.' I said our special forces should 'take him out.' 'Take him out' could be a number of things, including kidnapping."

Finally, on Wednesday, Robertson apologized -- but put the blame on Chávez for provoking him: "Is it right to call for assassination? No, and I apologize for that statement. I spoke in frustration that we should accommodate the man who thinks the U.S. is out to kill him."

His apology is welcome, but it calls attention to the larger picture: the context of ongoing US aggression towards Venezuela.

Robertson's Comments Consistent with US Government Policy

For years the US government has been working to create a climate hostile to the democratically elected government of Venezuela -- Pat Robertson's statements are, unfortunately, consistent with the actions of the Bush administration. The administration supported the 2002 coup against President Chávez, and has continued to fund coup leaders in their efforts to remove President Chávez from office after the coup.

Recently, the US has stepped up efforts to isolate Venezuela in the region (although these efforts have been largely rebuffed by other Latin American leaders.) Last week, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld continued the Bush administration's rhetorical assault against President Chávez, re-issuing old and unsupported claims regarding Venezuela.

Yet in August 2004, President Chávez won a referendum on his presidency by 59%, results which were certified by the Organization of American States (OAS) and Carter Center as free and fair. His popularity currently stands at over 70% -- much higher than his US counterpart's, and one of the highest in Latin America. There is complete freedom of press, assembly, speech, and civil rights in the country, and there are no serious human rights organizations that have argued that these rights have been reduced under Chávez, nor do they compare unfavorably to other regional governments.

The policy of America's governmental antipathy towards Venezuela stems more from that country's creation of an alternative economic vision than unsubstantiated concerns regarding democracy. President Chávez has embarked on a series of economic reforms, such as funneling billions of oil industry profits into massive programs for health care, education, literacy, and clean water, and promoting regional integration, which fly in the face of Bush's failed efforts to promote corporate globalization by establishing a Free Trade Area of the Americas.

The US "free trade" economic model has failed to deliver growth in the region; according to the Center for Economic and Policy Research, Latin Americans have experienced less than .5% per capita economic growth overall in the last 25 years. Meanwhile, Chávez's economic policies (combined with oil profits) have made Venezuela the fastest growing economy in the region. But the American government's dislike for Chávez's vision certainly does not give anyone a license to kill.

In his comments, Robertson invoked the Monroe Doctrine, the primary instrument of the US policy of intervention and domination in the Western Hemisphere since 1823. "We can't allow this to happen in our sphere of influence," he said.

Past US involvement in the overthrow of democratically elected governments weighs heavily on the minds of Latin Americans from countries like Chile, Guatemala, Haiti, Grenada, and the Dominican Republic. In addition, the US government has been connected to the 1963 assassination of South Vietnamese President Ngo Dinh Diem, as well as the murders of Congolese President Patrice Lumumba, Chilean President Salvador Allende, and repeated attempts on the life of Cuban President Fidel Castro.

Robertson's comments have little basis in US or Venezuelan reality. He stated that if Chávez were to be assassinated, he didn't "think any oil shipments will stop." President Chávez has repeatedly stated that oil shipments from Venezuela -- which represent approximately 15% of US imports -- will continue steadily as long as the US does not commit violent acts of aggression against Venezuela's sovereignty. Articles quoting his repeated declarations on this topic are available here.

Venezuela is expanding exports to other countries, including China, the Caribbean, and South America, but has maintained shipments to the US, which light up our Eastern Seaboard with heating oil and keep 14,000 Venezuelan-owned Citgo gas stations in business. Chavez has also offered to provide lower-cost gasoline to struggling Americans. But in the case of an attack on the physical integrity of the Venezuelan leader, the immediate cessation of exports from the US's fourth largest source would be all but guaranteed.

The US government's ongoing hostility towards President Chávez has created a climate in which a Republican leader feels comfortable in calling for the US to kill an elected head of state as part of US foreign policy on the cheap. Robertson's comments should be a clarion call for a new foreign relations policy with Venezuela - one based on respect for a thriving democracy and an important economic ally.

Obligations Under Federal and International Law

Despite his apology, Pat Robertson should still be investigated -- and potentially prosecuted -- for calling for the murder of a democratically elected head of state. Under Title 18 of US Code Section 1116, "whoever kills or attempts to kill a foreign official, official guest, or internationally protected person shall be punished." Section 878 of the same title makes it a crime to "knowingly and willingly threaten" to commit the above crime.

The US government is also obligated under international law to prevent and punish acts of terrorism against foreign heads of state, if those acts are conceived of or planned on US territory. The 1973 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Crimes Against Internationally Protected Persons makes it a crime to commit a "murder, kidnapping, or other attack upon on the liberty of an internationally protected person;" [including] a "threat to commit any such attack."

The US is also a signatory to the 1971 Convention to Prevent and Punish Acts of Terrorism Taking the Form of Crimes Against Persons and Related Extortion that are of International Significance of the OAS, Article 8a of which obliges "[t]he contracting states undertake to cooperate among themselves by taking all the measures that they may consider effective, under their own laws, and especially those established in this convention, to prevent and punish acts of terrorism, especially kidnaping [sic], murder, and other assaults against the life or physical integrity of those persons to whom the state has the duty according to international law to give special protection, as well as extortion in connection with those crimes." This includes foreign heads of state as internationally protected persons.

The Christian Broadcasting Network should also be investigated for the potential illegality of using federally licensed airwaves to call for an assassination. In light of the $550,000 fine against CBS for the accidental airing of Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction," it would be extremely ironic if the CBN were not similarly punished for airing a call for terrorist homicide.

Considering the history of US involvement in the overthrow of democratically elected governments, along with the current US hostility towards Venezuela, the incitement by a key Bush supporter to kill democratically elected President Chávez should be a clarion call: It's time to turn over a new leaf in our policy towards Venezuela, and build relations of respect with the most popular democratically elected leader in Latin America.

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Deborah James is the Global Economy Director of Global Exchange, and a frequent traveler to Venezuela. She is reachable at deborah@globalexchange.org.

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Huh?
Posted by: jeff on Aug 25, 2005 12:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How is it that so many people follow this Twat Robertson?

Go to http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/7027/quotes.html for more of his inspirational elucidations.

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» The South Loves Pat Posted by: Badlawdog
» RE: The South Loves Pat Posted by: kingfelix
» RE: Huh? Posted by: homebrewmike
» Easy answers Posted by: Pauljaxon
» RE: Easy answers Posted by: BuckFush
» RE: asy answers Posted by: beetruetoyou
» Language, Language Posted by: aswgt@ix.netcom.com
» RE: Huh? Posted by: IndyElliott
Nothing will happen
Posted by: Just Some Dude on Aug 25, 2005 1:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Though I agree with the authors call to investigate, I doubt anything will become of this. Remember DeLay, Rove, etc...the list goes on and on and they do nothing. Sad, but true.

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» RE: Nothing will happen Posted by: cyclone
» RE: Nothing will happen Posted by: nardo
How do they get away with it?
Posted by: sjgarcia on Aug 25, 2005 2:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seriously, those of us outside looking in are thoroughly confused how cases such as this (and as the original poster said, with Rove and others) can just be overlooked. We all know (as do many of you) that your government is severely corrupt. That's apparent to anyone with two grey cells to rub together. What's boggling is how the American people can let them get away with so much when they had the previous president prosecuted for a blowjob.

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» RE: How do they get away with it? Posted by: beetruetoyou
Robertson's true colors.
Posted by: WhatNow? on Aug 25, 2005 3:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
His allegiances lie with hatred and greed. I see he supports murder. And now I see his true allegiance lies with corporate amerika. He wants a socialist murdered so corporate amerika can sacrifice the Venzuelan masses to his gods.

Spat Murderson has lost any connection he has with Jesus if he ever had any. I think Jesus would be somewhat pleased with Chavez. Chavez does not condone violence and he has done alot to help the underpriviledged. Two things Jesus surely would have done. I can not imagine anything Murderson is doing Jesus would do.

I hope Spat will be prosecuted and jailed. He is another disgrace to our country and obviously can not understand the new testament.

Viva Hugo Chavez! It's good to see a leader try to raise the standard of living of his country's people.

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» RE: obertson's true colors. Posted by: linuxluver
» RE: obertson's true colors. Posted by: clinton
adp3d
Posted by: adp3d on Aug 25, 2005 3:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pat Robertson has issued what can be considered a religious fatwa. Some idiot like Eric Rudolf will take heed and make an attempt on Mr. Chavous life, and the Bush adminstration will disavow any knowledge...

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Since the first day I ever saw this ASSHOLE, PAT ROBERTSON,
Posted by: yogendra2 on Aug 25, 2005 3:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I KNEW HE WAS A FUCKING IDIOT. IF THIS PIECE OF DOGSHIT IS A CHRISTIAN, I AM FRANK SINATRA. I OFTEN WONDER IF JESUS EVER WISHES HE COULD RE CHOOSE HIS TEAM. WITH PEOPLE LIKE THIS IDIOT, ROBERTSON, REPRESENTING THE RIGHT WING 'CHRISTIANS' I DON'T THINK THEY ARE LONG FOR THE SPOTLIGHT. CAN'T EVEN THE DUMBEST PERSON SEE THAT THIS MAN IS A RIDICULOUS FRAUD, WITH ONLY A TAWDRY POLITICAL AGENDA, AND NOT MUCH OF A RELIGIOUS ONE. PAT ROBERTSON WOULDN'T KNOW JESUS IF HE MET THE MESSIAH ON THE STREET. HOW BANKRUPT THE UNITED STATES HAS BECOME WITH A MORON REPRESENTING THE COUNTRY AND THIS ASSHOLE REPRESENTING CHRISTIANITY, AMERICA'S PRIMARY RELIGION. YOGI, TUCSON BADBOY000@GMAIL.COM

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» WWJB Posted by: BuckFush
Barbara
Posted by: Barbara on Aug 25, 2005 3:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since Venezuela has stood up to the bully USA, it is also being a becon of democracy in South America, which is a frightening and unacceptable prospect for the American government which has had so much control over this area.
They won't like the prospect of other Latin American countries following suite, as the USA Corporations will lose out on their " Slave Labor " and cheap products.
What Venezuela is showing these other countries is that they don't have to participate in the US " free trade " which ginds them into poverty.
Also, China has made a substantial oil contract with Venezuela and has offered monetary assistance, taking away the grip like hold of the US controled IMF & world bank over these countries.
So,....other than assassination, we are more likely to see US, CIA & corporate paid rebels emerging in venezuela to disrupt the country, as they have repeatedly done in the past in this and other countries.

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» RE: Barbara Posted by: REACT Magazine
Holy, holy, holy!
Posted by: LMNOP on Aug 25, 2005 4:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So this is the power of Christ, is it? Christians who want to convert me to their life style tell me that if I invite Christ in, I will be filled with the love of the Holy Spirit whose power will transform my life and make me a better person. Yeah, right. I see how being a Christian changes lives. Why in hell would I want to sign up with this miserably failed ethical system? Clearly, these people have nothing to do with the actual metaphysical power if any that underlies reality. If this Jesus really existed, would he tolerate this kind of dookie in his name?

The Right Reverend Robertson is a piece of pig excrement, and people like him, Jerry hatemonger Falwell and much of the American government from the Commander-in-Chimp down to the ass clown Santorum, all noisy Christians, say more to me about the so-called power of Jesus than everything else combined possibly could.

Oh, yeah, I know, none of these are true Christians, whatever those are. These people are the true Christians. They speak for the church. Anyway, I don’t hear any of the churches denouncing them. Nor do I hear my Christian acquaintances disavowing them. All of this is apparently all right with the entire institution of Christianity, but not with me.

So, the next time you think about preaching this nonsense to me or anyone like me, take a reality check. You might as well try to sell me your car while I can see it broken down on the side of the road with smoke billowing out from under its hood. Don’t look for validation by trying to drag us into your fantasy. Why do you think that we fight tooth and nail to keep this tripe out of our schools and courts? Many of us don’t want our kids to be influenced by it. Look what it has done for Pat Robertson.

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» Allow me to be the first Posted by: nakis
» RE: Holy, holy, holy! Posted by: stoney13
pb of mich.
Posted by: paulb on Aug 25, 2005 4:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These type of people are the reason that I quit going to church.Real christians would not have supported Bush in the last election if they would have been following there bible! It says to judge them by there fruits and Bush has produced nothing but rotten fruit.Church people follow him blindly because bush is against gay marrage and abortion.This is being pushed by the likes of Robertson and they will push what ever will support Bush.This is totally against the call to worship with all your heart and mind .As a born again christian,marine corp vet ,and America I could not support these people.

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» RE: pb of mich. Posted by: tcunning
ECLECTICIST S JIM RODRIGUEZ
Posted by: SJR505 on Aug 25, 2005 5:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
PAT ROBERTSON, JERRY FALWELL, JESSE JACKSON, ETC WHATEVER THEIR POLITICAL LEANINGS ARE PASTORS DESIRING TO BE POLITICIANS...THEIR CALLING IS FOR PASTORING, NOT POLITICAL POSTURING...
SHOULD HE PUNISHED? IN MY OPINION, THE JUDGMENT WAITING FOR HIM IS MUCH GREATER THAN ANY WE AS HUMANS CAN EVER DEEMED POSSIBLE...

IN MY VIEW, HIS 700 CLUB SHOW NEEDED MORE RATINGS AND MORE VIEWERS...TOO BAD HE DID NOT FOLLOW IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF REV BILLY GRAHAM ,WHO HAS DEVOTED HIS ENTIRE LIFE TO EACH MAN'S MAIN PURPOSE: 'TO SPREAD THE WORD OF JESUS CHRIST..."

S...JIM...RODRIGUEZ+++THE ECLECTICIST+++

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agitator church and state
Posted by: eileen_flmng on Aug 25, 2005 5:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Judgemental Fundamentalist's like Robertson must be confronted for their lust for power, their desire for empire and their corruption, mis-use and misunderstanding of what Christ was all about.

To all Christians and every open mind out there who has had enough of neo-cons and neo-Christians leading us the way we do not want to go, the time is now to DO SOMETHING: click the video "Do Something" on

www.wearewideawake

then please do it!

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Bush immorality and his immoral base of cronies
Posted by: kgs1947 on Aug 25, 2005 5:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Religion is now following the immoral policies of the current political administration in this country. Where is all of this going to take us? Down into complete turmoil of values and moral decadence. Bush, who is a dry drunk, with his cronies continues to set the stage for media and political morass. No one is taking any leadership in religion, goverment, academia, or families. We are in deep shit and not even trying to escape from the outhouse. We will die as a society. Where are the former presidential candidates now? In hiding like sinking rats.

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Osama bin Roberstson
Posted by: bobdobbs on Aug 25, 2005 5:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I say we call for a pre-emptive strike on Robertson. Terrorists like him should not be tolerated. Are we fighting terrorism or are we just killing non-christians in the name of Jesus?

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» RE: Osama bin Roberstson Posted by: ALANHESTER
Makes you proud, doesn't it?
Posted by: LMNOP on Aug 25, 2005 6:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pat Robertson, a Christian, has the audacity to call for Chavez's assassination. This is a good way for Mr. Robertson to turn up dead. But don't look to Bush, also a Christian, to denounce any of this.

Any president of one of he countries of the Americas who actually gives a crap about his people such as Daniel Ortega or Hugo Chavez becomes an enemy of my country. That is because such populist leaders actually believe that their precious resources should be shared among their own people instead of being sold to American corporate interests on the cheap.

Chavez of Venezuela is such a leader who actually wants to improve the fate of the poor of his country, and the Bush cartel (and apparently Mr. Robertson as well) is so opposed to that notion that they have unsuccessfully tried to destabilize his presidency. They have also had the unmitigated gall to call the elections that seated Mr. Chavez corrupt. Imagine that from our government.

So, when Robertson says kill Chavez, nobody with any authority is going to object, let alone prosecute him. The State department says, "inappropriate". Inappropriate is when you wear brown shoes with black pants, not when as a leader of the church you advocate murder. Maybe Mr. Robertson needs to look at one of those Ten Commandments signs the born agains in my neighborhood are always planting in their lawns to civilize us heathens.

And don't forget that Pat Robertson was in cahoots with Liberian president Charles Taylor to profit illegally from Liberian gold mines worked by abused and impoverished Liberian citizens who suffered, toiled and died so that the whore Robertson could add to his millions. What a fine man.

Makes you proud to be an American, doesn't it?

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This should be a wake-up call to all Americans...
Posted by: moogyboy on Aug 25, 2005 6:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...assuming Americans still know how to think straight. There ought to be *massive* outrage from responsible and moral Americans, and most especially Christians. All of us need to collectively speak, so the entire world hears in no uncertain terms: THIS SELF-RIGHTEOUS GASBAG DOESN'T SPEAK FOR US.

Note the distinct absence of outrage, however.

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What's The Matter With Pat?
Posted by: Tom Degan on Aug 25, 2005 6:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Someone (I can't remember who) put it well: Who would Jesus assassinate? As a Christian, I find Robertson's comments outrageous. Have any of these fools (Pat, Bush, Falwell, Swaggert, et. al.) ever even read the Sermon On The Mount?? Bush once said of the Taliban, "We're not fooled by their pretentions of piety". Oh yeah? Well I'm not fooled by his. And while we're at it, let's not pray for American success in Iraq, let's pray for God's will. I do not believe they're one in the same. Pray for peace.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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» RE: What's The Matter With Pat? Posted by: REACT Magazine
yellowdogdem
Posted by: DCH on Aug 25, 2005 6:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Robertson, and the present administration are on the same page and we need to provide the linkage.
Shades of El Salvadore.

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Pat's Not The Problem
Posted by: cary on Aug 25, 2005 6:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look, Robertson was not speaking in any official gov't capacity. He can say whatever he wants. The 1st amendment applies to him too, after all.

The problem is the failure of the Bush administration to condemn the statement and distance themselves from him.

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» RE: Pat's Not The Problem Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Pat's Not The Problem Posted by: cyclone
» RE: Pat is part of the problem Posted by: beetruetoyou
» RE: Pat's Not The Problem Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: Pat's Not The Problem Posted by: LouisFallert
» RE: Pat's Not The Problem Posted by: beetruetoyou
» RE: Pat's Not The Problem Posted by: Lindie
Here We Go Again ....
Posted by: Bab5nutz on Aug 25, 2005 6:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
32 Years ago, Salvador Allende, the democratically elected President of Chile, died during a coup that was alleged to have been backed by the CIA.
I hope that the Bush Adminstration does not go down the road.

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» RE: Here We Go Again .... Posted by: ekud3
» RE: Here We Go Again .... Posted by: JoeEbola
» RE: Here We Go Again .... Posted by: nakis
» RE: Here We Go Again .... Posted by: Bab5nutz
Roberts is a little late...
Posted by: Pooty T on Aug 25, 2005 6:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WhewwwWeeeeeeeee
Posted by: Riverside on Aug 25, 2005 6:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The last time it was the great flood, this time it will be an asteroid. Most likely T-Rex will return to rule and those of us left will make fear our constant partner. Mr. Robertson will survive long enough to serve T-Rex lunch.

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» RE: WhewwwWeeeeeeeee Posted by: Emeraude
» RE: WhewwwWeeeeeeeee Posted by: LMNOP
Lots of Good Posts
Posted by: nakis on Aug 25, 2005 7:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With the exception of a couple.

How do Christians either spout this kind of thing or follow people who do things that Robertson does.

He is a corporate neocon disquising himself as doing Gods work.
You can't have business enterprises in Africa with tyrants stealing the wealth of Africa and call yourself a Christian. You can't take money raised for charity and use it for your buniness and call yourself a Christian. You can't call for someones death and call yourself a Christian. You can't support neocon/free trade raping of the people for profits and call yourself a Christian.

Their own faith calls for the most utmost punishment for these kinds of actions. There are supposed to be the worst punishments of all for those who claim to lead people to God and yet lead them away. There are supposed to be special places in hell for people like Robertson, Bush, et all.

And you wonder why so many people leave the Christian faith, that Earth religions are on the rise and conversions to Islam. People like Robertson, Bush, Delay, Frist, etc.. are Christianities own worst enemy.
Especailly since Christianity isn't supposed to be at odds with anything. Not at least the way Jesus taught.

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» RE: Lots of Good Posts Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Lots of Good Posts Posted by: mbpeg7
Extadite
Posted by: ekud3 on Aug 25, 2005 7:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a canadian I was shocked that I had to see that on National and international airwaves.
There are laws in Canada against promoting hatred or hate crimes.
So I think it is only fair that Canada ask that he be extradited for trial and possible imprisonment for promoting hate,which is illegal in Canada.
The United States requested that Canadian political activist and cannabis seed seller Marc Emery be extradited for trial and possible life imprison for breaking U.S. law not canadian law.
In the same vane it is illegal to promote hate here but obviously not in the U.S.
So send him over,tit for tat ,its only fair.

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» RE: xtadite Posted by: bgroat
» RE: xtadite Posted by: demidesigrrl
» RE: xtadite Posted by: demidesigrrl
» RE: xtadite Posted by: nakis
» RE: xtadite Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: xtadite Posted by: REACT Magazine
Complain to the FCC
Posted by: lindarob on Aug 25, 2005 7:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It strikes me that AlterNet should be helping to organize public complaints to the FCC. Pat Robertson violated FCC regulations in advocating violence, and therefore, so did the broadcast stations that carried his program. If Janet Jackson's costume malfunction can lead to fines, this is far more serious.

In addition, I think AlterNet ought to call upon Congress to revise the rules that control our subscriptions to cable and satellite. The Christian Right opposes allowing us to choose which networks we want to receive, because they know that they will lose an important source of income. In other words, they are absolutely opposed to allowing good old competition to rule the cable and satellite offerings, preferring instead to lobby Congress for censorship of language and behavior on non-broadcast television.

Can't Alternet assist in promoting these two simple initiatives in response to the egregious behavior by Pat Robertson?

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» RE: Complain to the FCC Posted by: Lindie
Take a Cue
Posted by: karyse on Aug 25, 2005 7:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To everyone commenting herein in all capital letters -- please stop. It's the online version of screaming and gets tiresome -- especially when what you are saying has merit.

To everyone herein who called for silencing Robertson (quoting this or that law) I may not agree with what someone says, but I'll defend to the death his/her right to say it. Saying something does NOT "do" something and when idiots speak their normal idiotic and amoral hearts it does much to expose their flaws thereby showing the merit of the opposition's view.

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» RE: Take a Cue Posted by: grammasanity
» RE: Take a Cue Posted by: juliasews
» RE: Take a Cue Posted by: nakis
» RE: Take a Cue Posted by: beetruetoyou
» RE: Take a Cue Posted by: holli
» RE: Take a Cue Posted by: jrmart66
» RE: Take a Cue Posted by: Radicalizer
Robertson's an idiot, but this article is a haigography of Chavez.
Posted by: brunowe on Aug 25, 2005 7:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the demand that Bush personally condemn the statement is a good one, however the call for possible legal action is an overreaction. Saying that the government ought to do something is clearly not the same as threatening to do something ("He ought to do this vs. I'm going to do this"). The latter is a statement of intent to take an action, the former is an expression of a wish that someone would take an action.

Although there is no legal or moral justification for what Robertson called for, there is more to objections to Chavez that might be indiciated in the authors haigography. Chavez, although democractically elected, has swept away the checks and balances vital to any democracy in the name of his own cult of personality. The Freedom House report on his country http://www.freedomhouse.org/ research/freeworld/2005/Spain-Zimbabwe. pdf, which lists it as "Partly Free", mentions measures to pack the Supreme Court and bring local governments. Freedom House has also mentioned a climate of intimidation against the press as well as tighter regulations over the opposition media.

The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights' 2003 report also expressed concern about Chavez's govenment, such as the "provisional" status of Venezuelan judges (undermining their independence) and harassment of the media (incl. a law that states "Any person who offends, verbally or in writing or in any other fashion, the President of the Republic" shall be subject to 6-30 mos. imprisonment).http://www.cidh.org/ countryrep/Venezuela2003eng/ toc.htm Although the media was biased against Chavez, laws as this are a dictatorial overreach.

Human Rights Watch has also noted several areas of concern
http://www.hrw.org/doc?t=americas&c=venezu

Venezuela still ranks as one of the world's more corrupt countries http://www.transparency.org/cpi/2004/cpi2004.en.html#cpi2004. A condition enhanced by a system where much of the power and oil wealth is centered in a demagogue who uses it to reward followers and punish non-followers.

Chavez's economic "success" arguably has less to do with his policies than with the fortutious (for him) increase in the price of oil. Although he is no Castro, there's no reason to place a halo on him.
(n.b., had to put spaces in the links to get them in, copy and past to address bar and close up spaces to use them.)

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» Show Me An Angel Posted by: decembrist
» RE: Show Me An Angel Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Show Me An Angel Posted by: Radicalizer
Take back Christianity
Posted by: grammasanity on Aug 25, 2005 7:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Robertson and his ilk don't deserve the name of Christians. I am trying to be one, and it's really hard to not feel slimed by these angry, violent egotistical 'fallen angels' of what is really a petty good faith, if you actually follow the teachings. Love God (the Living God, source of all life), Love your neighbor, be kind, emulate little children -- does this sound like any of these weirdos?
Don't let the bad guys have it! A true Christian will ALWAYS be a left-wing liberal commie pinko in the face of hard and evil men in power. Risk your job, risk your life, risk everything for Truth, and get the devil out of your life and your head and your government. Impeach Bush and turn off your TV!

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» RE: Take back Christianity Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Take back Christianity Posted by: Olympiada
Where's flatulence(lazy eight) when the fan is headed for the tripe
Posted by: kelly.nickell on Aug 25, 2005 7:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was looking through here for what flatulence(number of the day) has to contribute to this commentary. I am just curious as to if our casino worker in Mississippi will heed the call of his messiah to travel to points south to eradicate this vermin from our midst. I, for one, will grant him diplomatic immunity if he will continue on this righteous march of sending any and all to their maker in support of righteous thought.

Given the sheer numbers of those that have the ability to reason outside of the conservative canon (no, flat, that is not a gun associated with socialism), this should keep him busy for the next, oh, two-three thousand years.

On another note, I find it curious that Pat has such a prominent forehead. Many talk of shrub as “all hat, no head” Pat appears to be “all head, no brains.”

This is just the kind of thing you would expect Karl to do; getting one of their aging pillars of thought to fall on a sword, so that the damn liberal media will shut up about Cindy Sheehan, while the shells are moved and the pea removed.

Is Pat really this stupid? Perhaps he now realizes that he is long in the tooth, will never lead his misbegotten flock to power in this country, and Karl slid a few shillings in the collection tray for the better good, or the gooder high, or ... who knows.

Maybe I’m just an idiot.

KN - Sorry flatulence, your leaders and their supporters are giving me more gas today.

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The shell game
Posted by: kelly.nickell on Aug 25, 2005 8:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As I ponder why Pat could suddenly wax so eloquently as to get the front page all over this country of ours, I think it is of note that shrub has suddenly popped up out of the sticks talking to large numbers of families of dead soldiers and even finding one he could use to his advantage for the sake of quelling the drone from the nut in Crawford (Cindy, not Dubya).

The shells have been moved; are we going to allow another nuts shell to hide the pea for another 200 billion and the pittance of say 2000 dead children of the minions, in pursuit of oil and glory for shrub?

KN – Sorry, Cindy, you are kind of a nut, but I like you.

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Appalled
Posted by: sassicatz on Aug 25, 2005 8:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I, a Christian, was absolutely appalled by Robertson's statements, and by his attempts to wiggle out of responsibility for them. Jesus would not condone his words and actions, nor the words and actions of George Bush.

I also think it's appalling that more Christians haven't spoken out about this. We, of all people, should denounce such things.

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» RE: Appalled Posted by: kelly.nickell
WE are ADDICTED to his CABLE TV brain-sticky DRUG
Posted by: Meremark on Aug 25, 2005 8:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
-
This despotic fascist CAN NOT be seized and stopped because he is HIDING in the Cable TV BUNDLED PACKAGE, and people keep giving Cable TV monthly money and that gives money to this fascist.

BOYCOTT Cable TV and we can Dollar-ASSASSINATE Robertson, 700 Club, ChristoFascists, and the RELIGIOUS RIGHTISTS. ! ! !

All their money came from OUR Cable TV payment that they get a chunk of -- One Billion Dollars a Year (per channel, plus or minus) -- that was ChristoFascists start 30 years ago and it still pays them corrupting boxes of murder-money today.

IT GETS WORSER and WORSEST until we DO SOMETHING, get mad as hell, get a friend and !! BOYCOTT Cable TV !! and say: 'We REFUSE the BRAIN POISON.'

ONLY OUR Cable TV SACRIFICE can CRUSH BUSHism.
-
(IF we mean to truly DO SOMETHING that changes the world, instead of talk talk talking and wringing our hands like we are helpless and clueless.)
-

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the real enemy is FUNDAMENTALISM
Posted by: sanitysojourner on Aug 25, 2005 8:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a person of faith (and it doesn't matter which one since I respect all faiths as well as those of no faith), I see the problem is not Christianity per se but fundamentalism -- of any faith system. Fundamentalism stresses the infallibility of the Bible (Quran, or religious tome of choice) in all matters of faith and doctrine, using those scriptures, selectively culled of course, as a literal historical record. These fundamentalists have given their respective religions a very bad rap.

I suggest that, instead of deploring how low "Christianity" has sunk, those of a Christian persuasion should take their religion back from the fundies. Loudly. Stridently.

The left long ago yielded up the words "pro-life" to a radical fringe, leaving me screaming: "who the hell isn't pro-life?" We need to stop yielding the language management to the right. They are NOT Christian by their behavior, but they have seized the word.

Before we get into (fundamentalist) religious wars worldwide, all of us, regardless of faith, need to denounce those who would create a false identity for a religion for their own selfish purposes.

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» RE: the real enemy is FUNDAMENTALISM Posted by: kelly.nickell
Just calm down
Posted by: jazzyjer on Aug 25, 2005 8:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Robertson is a blithering idiot, and to make casual remarks of this nature indicates early-onset Alzheimer's. The left should take a "poor foo', he's finally losing it" approach and pity him into irrelevance.
This article betrays a certain sloppiness; the rev ran for prez in 88, not 92 and jesse jackson is a rev while jesse jr. is a congressman. I wonder which one the over-excitable author is quoting?

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» Fallen between two chairs ... Posted by: aswgt@ix.netcom.com
David
Posted by: navistic50 on Aug 25, 2005 8:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been noticing that the major networks are not pursuing the Robertson story here in America... No surprise though. Corruption has sunk to a new low here in our homeland.

Since the 2000 elections we have been in a steadily swirling and increasing sinkhole, due in no small part to our own failings, fears, ignorance or what have you. Yet in no small part, our government and the religious right have cultivated repression to a new art form.

I fear for our future in this country, not because our government is corrupt, but because america's citizens fail to see where the end of the road leads in regards to capitalism and corporationism.

America is collapsing from the inside, and at the present rate, Bush won't make it out of office to cover his mistakes this time.

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By their fruits you shall know them
Posted by: radnar on Aug 25, 2005 8:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It came to me from reading the article and the comments that maybe the Bible is not as much bullshit as I thought.

I started out life as a Christian because my parents were and did not question it until my Methodist Church joined with the Evangelical United Brethern in my late teens. I had no problem with that but many of the "elders" of my church did because they said that we would then have to let the "niggers" in. I was friends with several of the black kids in town and some of them were members of the EUB Church. That statement outraged me so much that I never returned to that hypocritical place.

I embarked on a study of different religions mainly by reading various "holy books" and attending several different services. I actually found many underlying principles in most of the different faiths which can be summarised generally by peace, brotherhood, taking care of each other, and love for everyone.

Over the years I have been more and more disillusioned by people like Robertson, Falwell, and Fundamentalists from other religions who preach hate, intollerance, and murder in the name of God. It has gotten so bad that in recent years I have distanced myself from all religion as just plain evil. But it seems to me that the true message in all the faiths is still the same as it always was, it is the messengers that are perverting the word.

I remember that in the Bible it is said that false prophets will arise preaching in the name of Jesus. But by their fruits you shall know them. If that does not apply to Robertson et al I do not know what does.

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» the name radnar Posted by: nardo
» never mnd, i got it. Posted by: nardo
Dorothy Day
Posted by: Tom Degan on Aug 25, 2005 9:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would suggest that all of you go to Amazon.com and purchase a book - any book - on the writings of Dorothy Day. She was what I'm sure God had in mind when He called on people to do His work and His will. During her lifetime she was considered a dangerous radical. She was imprisoned many times and the FBI had a file on her thet exceeded 2600 pages. She founded the newspaper, The Catholic Worker and was ALWAYS consistant with her pacifist beliefs. Dorothy Day not only worked for the poor, she lived among them; Considered herself to be one of them. She died in November of 1980 an the age of 83. I'm tellin' ya, folks, this lady was AND IS the real deal! The Ultimate Christian! Buy any of her books or a biography of her. It will change your attitude on Christianity whatever it is. There is also a very good film that's available called Entertaining Angels with Moira Kelly portraying Dorothy. She not only will change your heart, she might even change your life.
Peace!
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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» RE: Dorothy Day Posted by: nakis
» RE: Dorothy Day Posted by: Basenjis
Bush is Guilty
Posted by: asque on Aug 25, 2005 9:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In case you missed it, regime change violates International Law. Bush is also guilty of attempted assigination, which violates International and US Law. The only reason it is attempted, is that the intelligence used to pinpont the location of Iraq's leader's was as deficient as the intelligence used to justify the war. I'm not defending Sadam, I'm just saying was not our job to remove him.

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» RE: Bush is Guilty Posted by: likeitis
Many eyes will be opened
Posted by: LoisC on Aug 25, 2005 9:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm glad Robertson said what he did because now people will open their eyes and realize the person he is. NOT a Christian.

My prayers have been to expose these so-called Christians who are corrupting the faith so people will no longer listen to them. I think this action will open many eyes and hopefully dry up their funds.

And in the process true Christians will return to the truth of the bible and no longer be deceived.

God does answer prayers!!

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» More will remain closed Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Many eyes will be opened Posted by: Reinform.org
Albatross the 700 Club
Posted by: surfreality on Aug 25, 2005 10:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let me get this straight, pundits say Republians won the last election because they were the party of "family values", right? Democrats and progressives lost because our positions weren't "moral" enough. So which family value does calling for an assassination fall under?
Democrats in 06 should take every opportunity to expose the political contributions of Pat and the 700 Club to right wing candidates like Santorum, Frisk, McConnel, Ishtook and their ilk. Force these politicians to either repudiate Pat Robertson and return his money or to explain why they won't.
Every few months congress gets on it's high horse about rap music and violent video games. Hollywood and the entertainment industry are constantly threatened and investigated for exercising their first amendment rights. If Robertson's comments are not held to the same moral standards by these politicians then we need to know and expose the reasons why that is so. The Bush administation's tepid response to Robertson's call to arms will likely be echoed by other candidates on the right. Let's make that a big issue.

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Let's see now....
Posted by: MTguy on Aug 25, 2005 11:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In Britain, they're deporting people who incite violence. Here we arrest them and throw them in Gitmo Prison ...that is, of course, if they're of Middle Eastern descent.

So along comes Pat Robertson calling for the assassination of a foreign leader, suggesting as he does that our government has the resources to do it in a nice, tidy fashion.

How many insurgents and terrorists would this action spawn?

So, what are you going to do to HIM, Mr. President and Mr. Head of Homeland Security?

Nothing, I fear. Another benchmark reached in measuring the consistency and strength of leadership in our current president and his administration.

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Time to Tax Pat's Church
Posted by: also aswell on Aug 25, 2005 12:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Houses of worship are given tax-exempt status because the government assumes that their work is charitable, not political. As such, contributions to them are tax deductible, while donations to political candidates and parties are not.

Penalties for violating federal law include loss of tax-exempt status or financial penalties imposed on officials of the house of worship in question. This is more than a theoretical concern; the IRS does enforce the law in this area.

Mr. Robertson has crossed these guidlines again and again, perhaps his propaganda machine met the IRS next April 15th?

Want more info on taxing the churches?

Taxchurches.com

Churches and tax-free property

Tax-exempt status for churches an unfair subsidy

Rendering unto Caesar

Religion, Partisan Politics And Tax Exemption What Federal Law Requires – And Why

Partisan Politicking By Churches Violates Federal Tax Law

Churches to be Taxed!? from Coloradans for Fair Property Taxation

Lot's of links



Taking a License to Preach




Tax The Churches Forum

How can churches preach politics and not pay taxes?

Tax Breaks for Churches

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Rod from Canada
Posted by: Rod from Canada on Aug 25, 2005 12:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The bottom line here, I think, is that the vitual dearth of postings in Pat Roberton's defence is, in itself, reassuring, certainly to a great many outside the U.S., and, I suspect, to the great majority of Americans.

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» RE: od from Canada Posted by: Basenjis
Religion Causes Pain and Suffering
Posted by: drdigi420 on Aug 25, 2005 12:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Religion, throughout history, has been the impetus for violence. Religion is an easy way to seperate the quick from the gullible, and makes it easier to manipulate the gullible into furthering a political agenda.

Religion, being inherently false, opens the door for many evil men that can easily control those that are susceptible to falling for the con of religion.

Without religion there is peace.

All those saying that Pat Robertson does not represent Christianity should study their history, for his calls for violence asolutely are in line with the history of the church.

Christianity has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus. It is a scam, a con, a play on the weak minded.

Once people realize that there is no god, the world will be a much better place to live.

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Horny old Christians
Posted by: pjrsullivan on Aug 25, 2005 1:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you take the word "Assassinate," and break it up it looks something like, "Ass," "Ass," "in" "Ate."

A psychiatrist might find a latent sexual predator in someone who likes to "Assassinate" other people.

The State Department called Reverend Robertsons statements "inappropriate." The reason for that may be that Robertson said that we have the ability to do this thing, Assassinate, someone. If you think about it you may see that the death squads that America loves to run, are linked to our holiest bunch of aawholes, the Christians, not all of them of course, but the leaders of these cannibal Ideologies do run them. This is also why you find their cannibal cult partners in sucking blood are the Zionists. You can take the cannibal out of the desert, but apparently you cannot take the desert out of the cannibal.

The resource starved desert fosters human predator behavior and favors genocide. This behavior is what is threatening our planet and our existence.

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Pat & George 2000 years ago
Posted by: johnharold on Aug 25, 2005 1:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yep, it was the good, church going leaders of Israel who decided 2000 years ago that a good dude walking around doing good stuff, like healing sick people, respecting children and pointing out hypocracy, anyway, a dude like that had to be nailed on a cross in public view. If a real Christian tried to talk to George Bush or Pat Robertson, the Christian would be slandered and arrested on some drug or terror charge. It's too bad people who profess to be Christians, know nothing about the teachings of Jesus Christ, but then again, I've noticed a lot of Republicans and Democrats who have no idea what their respective parties represent. Jesus is not about government and war, He's all about love and peace and respect that all people are equal in the eyes of God.

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Leader of millions
Posted by: berrygoldwater2004 on Aug 25, 2005 2:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are millions of people who pray for and with Pat Robertson daily. He is not a joke, a twat, or any of that. He is a crazy person with millions of dollars and millions of followers.

We are drinking the kool-aid. See you in hell.

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» Leader of misled millions Posted by: Olympiada
Madelinefan
Posted by: madelinefan on Aug 25, 2005 2:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What I don't understand is how these so called "religious" organizations are able to exist as obvious political organizations yet continue to bask in the tax exemptions of true religious organizations. Pat Robertson is to Christianity what Osama Bin Laden is to Islam, a radical religious extremist who is using influence, money and religion to spread hate and now violence.

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Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Stupid
Posted by: errandchild on Aug 25, 2005 2:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not suprised there are still quacks on the TV like this guy. Heck, yesterday I saw a guy talking about how "Harry Potter" is evil. This kind of crap may not be liked, but it is protected by the same ammendment that allows us to speak our mind writing posts. In case anyone forgot a large majority of Americans don't like what we have to say either.

I for one think this guy is not only stupid but dangerous; especially if some moron actually listens to him and believes what he says. You know, the same kind of person who believes this crack is the same kind of person who believes O'Riley or Limbagh.

Even if Limbagh thinks we should all be deported he is just a crack himself, and so is our current administration for that matter. It's just a good thing that there is an Ammendment that protects my right to say or write that.

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Rejoice!
Posted by: bambic on Aug 25, 2005 3:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe now these "God-fearing" Christians will see exactly who they've been following for all these years, and think twice before they throw their prayers and support behind some very corrupt organizations and politicians...I say "hurray!" for Pat Robertson finally showing his true colors.

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» RE: ejoice! Posted by: janetsal
» RE: ejoice! Posted by: mwildfire
» RE: ejoice! Posted by: beetruetoyou
Huh?
Posted by: jeff on Aug 25, 2005 4:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sorry guys. I'm just accustomed to expressing things in this fashion – from Australia.

Appreciate your comments though.

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Crucify Him
Posted by: Reinform.org on Aug 25, 2005 8:51 PM   
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Hugo Chavez, the guy that Pat Robertson wants assassinated, seems to be putting into real life action* more of Christ's teachings than Pat Robertson could ever hope to talk about doing. Maybe that's why Robertson is yelling, "Crucify him!"

*Of the top oil producing countries in the world, only one is a democracy with a president who was elected on a platform of using his nation's oil revenue to benefit the poor. The country is Venezuela. The President is Hugo Chavez. You might call him "the Anti-Bush."

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are there any laws against assassinations of American leaders?
Posted by: garyjminter on Aug 25, 2005 11:43 PM   
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Yes, it seems that "Smiling Pat" Robertson has gone a bit too far in revealing the true nature of the long history of US assassination efforts against foreign leaders who do not cooperate with US corporations....you already know the long, sad list....

I wonder if there are any such laws against the assassination of United States leaders, including JFK, RFK, Dr. Martin Luther King, and Malcolm X? Perhaps we need to get our own house in order before trying to play moral or military policeman to the rest of the world?

Have a nice day, Pat! Please say Hi to Jesus for me next time you talk to "The Prince of Peace".....

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Israel's guns preceded PR's mouth
Posted by: likeitis on Aug 26, 2005 11:42 AM   
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The state sponsored murder of Sheik Yassin in Gaza April '03 was not only the most heinous violation of international law and moral decency that most posters are ready to lynch the Right Rev. Robertson for (there goes the 700 club-- good riddance, if you acked me). It set off the uprising in Falluja, with US bodies danlging from bridge and bloodly, cruel intractable resistance to what Ameria was trying to do over there wouldn't you? Did sopmeone say Albatross?

So where's the yelping at the Zionist Jews? Why just pick on the Likkud amen choir here? It is to be seriously considerered that Patsy baby was set up to do the jeezus thing -- He'll take any abuse, you know; perfect alter ego -- to cover the tribe's asses for shooting a paraplegic man in his wheelchair from a made in the US Apache helicopter gunship.

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In Defense of Religion
Posted by: Basenjis on Aug 26, 2005 10:56 PM   
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I am reading some extremely negative--and may I say--poorly informed comments on religion and the attitude of Christians in America toward the Pat Robertson blather. A number of churches, church organizations and Christian ministers have spoken out vehemently against Robertson and his extremist views from time to time. They've had plenty to say about his latest intemperate comment. The reason he is taken seriously at all by anyone in the mainstream is because he was once a presidential candidate and had a great deal of influence over Christian charismatics and fundamentalists. Hopefully some of his followers will see him now for what he really is. Robertson has always come out with extremist remarks, but he just went over the line this time. He's 75 years old, and maybe he's a bit senile, too. At any rate, he went way too far and probably cooked his own goose. As for many of the comments on religion, I have been reading by supposedly "liberal" people, they are also extreme and they certainly do not further your cause. I do not myself belong to any Christian organization.

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» Religion is Indefensible Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: In Defense of Religion Posted by: Falang
» RE: In Defense of Religion Posted by: beetruetoyou
Christian and advocating murder ?????????????????
Posted by: RayP on Aug 27, 2005 4:22 AM   
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I can't see how Pat Robertson can call himself a Christian minister, and then be advocating for the murder of someone. These two things conflict with each other.

Beware of some of these so-called "Preachers" - people can label themselves with whatever title they want.

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barrys new conversations
Posted by: barrys new conversations on Aug 27, 2005 10:15 AM   
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Pa t Robertson is a cretin. Cretin is an 18th century corruption of the French word for Christians that were found living in the Alps. Cretin also means fool. QED

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» On CRETINS and MORONS Posted by: LMNOP
The events in Aruba are related
Posted by: tommyboy on Aug 27, 2005 2:51 PM   
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The US government has been pressuring the Dutch government for a larger miltary presence in Aruba. Fox News, CNN ..etc, are all doing their best to cripple the Aruban economy with non-stop coverage of Natelie. It has not worked. Aruba, Cuacao are planned to be used for support in trying to topple Chavez.

The Old Reverend is just upping the rhetoric on Chavez. He would not do this without prior approval of BushCo. He also is trying to make a few bucks on some of his investments. A few moves in the right direction of certain commodities and stocks will benefit him and his buds.

The last coupe attempt by the US government on Chavez failed miserably when the coupe leaders chickened out when the poor Venezualans took to the streets. They all thought they would be lynched. They are all waiting in Miami for the next US backed coupe. The US will not try another coup unless all the lower level officiers in the Venezualan military are payed off like the upper level officers were.

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as a latino...
Posted by: broncksboy on Aug 27, 2005 5:28 PM   
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Obviously, I am angered by the comments of Mr. Robertson, a so called christian man. A leading christian man purportedly a voice of Jesus Christ, in which he asks for the execution of a democratically elected president of a sovereign nation. But I am also angry on another level because of the continued view that latinos are portrayed in. Communist, drug infested, dictators which recreate the stereotype which many americans have of latinos in general. Mr. Robertson should be more than ashamed of his comments; he should be asking his god and personal savior for forgiveness of his deep seated soul of hatred toward latino people as a whole.

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» RE: as a latino... Posted by: tommyboy
Free Speech is not absolute
Posted by: RevRick on Aug 28, 2005 9:52 AM   
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Alot of posters are saying that this is an issue of free speech. However free speech is not an absolute even in the United States and it shouldn't be an absolute.

If you are a mob boss and you say this guy need to be wacked you can't hide behind free speech.

Like we saw in the recent Edgar Killian trial if you are a klan leader and you tell a group of clansmen that three men "need their asses tore up", and thoes clanmen go out and kill thoes three men you again can't hide behind free speech.

If you are Osama Bin Laden and you say to 21 men go fly planes into buildings you can't say "I was just speaking my mind...1st amendment".

Finally if you are Pat Robertson and you say something on air that could encourage your viewers to break the law it isn't free speech. This doesn't mean that he broke the law but an investigation is certainly warented.

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Pat Robertson is bullet proof
Posted by: tommyboy on Aug 28, 2005 1:02 PM   
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Do you all want to know why Pat Roberson, Jerry Falwell...etc don't have Telethons anymore begging for money? They have all jumped on board with a "certain" Religious group years ago to promote Israel and Zionism. Jerry loved the corporate jet given to him by the Israeli government as well as the millions given to him by American and European Zionists to alieviate the "pain" of having to beg for money every few months.

These immoral dirtbags have all sold out God, Christianity and this country, telling non-stop lies on their bought and paid for networks. They are "made men" that cannot be touched.

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Freedom of Speech for All?
Posted by: Radicalizer on Aug 28, 2005 3:04 PM   
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To all those who are defending Robertson's right to express himself because of his so-called freedom of speech, I would like to pose a question. I know that Alternet has run a series of articles in the past about Ward Churchill. For those who may not remember, he is a Professor at the University of Colorado, and became a media magnet for his comments on 9/11, when he called the "technocrats" who worked in the WTC "little Eichmanns." The reaction to that statement was swift and severe. He was almost fired from his job, and many people (both on the right and left) felt that Churchill had no right to say what he did, despite the freedom of speech guaranteed by the American Consitution. My question then, is simple: Would those who support Robertson's ability to express himself freely be as supportive of Ward Churchill?

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» RE: Freedom of Speech for All? Posted by: tommyboy
» RE: Freedom of Speech for All? Posted by: Radicalizer
» RE: Freedom of Speech for All? Posted by: tommyboy
» RE: Freedom of Speech for All? Posted by: tommyboy
Gaia sighs...
Posted by: Gaia sighs... on Aug 28, 2005 4:50 PM   
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Why hasn't Robertson issued a retraction, on his own network, similar to the one he gave to the main stream media?

Why does he allow millions of his viewers, who watch him exclusively, to go on believing assasination in God's name is proper?

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Separation of church and politic
Posted by: Falang on Aug 29, 2005 8:16 AM   
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Pat Robertson is the proof that religion should be separated from politics, look at every countries who have not this separation and what they have done in history.
For those who condemn Pat Robertson but defend the religion may I remind you that if Jesus was coming back today and preaching to help the poor and to present the other cheek if someone hit you, you will be the first to say he is a communist and a dangerous guy who ask you to present the other cheek and I am sure that the US will be the first in line to nail him on the cross for a second time.
I am a atheist and I live in peace with that I am not a gullible person for dogma and I will fight dogma until my death because dogma meen not asking question and when you don't have any check and balance there is a opening for all kind deviation like we see today.

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mojo
Posted by: molson on Aug 30, 2005 4:47 AM   
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Give me a break. We don't need histrionics in the debate. Robertson may be a dispicable representation of a Christian leader (turn the other cheek and all that great moral stuff), but he is not an elected official, nor has hardly broken and "federal or international law" -- or do you think free speech should be restricted? Would you have felt the same about assassinatig Sadam in lieu of this latest war?

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Beyond the pale
Posted by: Olympiada on Sep 5, 2005 4:40 PM   
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Thanks Deborah for an excellent article and many new words and phrases and links to come back to. You are a great teacher! And I know your organization Global Exchange, if I recall correctly, it is based out of my home town.

You know I find it ironic, as I am sure many others do, that we are waging a war on terror at the same time talking like terrorists ourselves. How much more hypocritical can you get? And the fact that is a so called 'Chrisitan' doing it makes it all the worse. Somebody shut this guy down. This is horrid. I detest televangelists.

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