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Weird Science on the Religious Right

By Stan Cox, AlterNet. Posted August 11, 2005.


Seven of the greatest hits (or misses) of conservative Christian 'science' show just how little fact goes into these beliefs, and how much damage they can cause.

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"God said it. I believe it. That settles it." This familiar bumper sticker slogan appears to sum up the Religious Right's decision-making process on matters of heated public debate.

But when policies involving human biology and behavior are being hammered out, faith alone isn't always sufficient to win over voters and decision-makers. At such times, a bit of scientific evidence comes in handy, and some of the Religious Right's operatives aren't too choosy about where they get it.

Consider the following seven claims, the quality of the scientific evidence that supports them and the potential consequences, were they to be widely accepted:

"Condoms are full of holes"

That's according to Concerned Women For America and many other right-wing groups. How big are those holes? Big enough that an HIV particle or even a sperm can easily wander through, if you believe this scary diagram from abortionfacts.com:





condom holes


Organizations that advertise gaping holes of 5 microns (.0002 inch) or more in condoms often turn out to be misapplying data from a 1993 paper by scientist C.M. Roland. Possibly confused by the title of the journal in which Roland published his work -- Rubber World -- they fail to note that his experiments were done with latex gloves, not condoms.

On the other hand, a 1998 Food and Drug Administration (FDA) report noted that when 1-micron holes were intentionally drilled in condom latex, a sensitive test could detect them, but the same test could find no holes in undrilled condoms. That indicated that condoms have no holes bigger than 1 micron, unless researchers poke the holes themselves. And in a 50-micron-thick condom, even a 1-micron-wide hole is really a narrow tunnel that would have little chance of reaching through the entire thickness, let alone allowing HIV particles through.

The overall conclusion of the FDA study: "All the latex films representing a wide range of formulations and ages were effective barriers to transmission of the small virus. Thus, permeation through quite thin, stretched samples with this very sensitive test was not found."

The federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) fact sheet on condoms states that "Laboratory studies have demonstrated that latex condoms provide an essentially impermeable barrier to particles the size of STD pathogens." And, of course, a far larger sperm cell has no chance of escape.

That information is buried in the midst of a previously informative CDC document that was largely gutted under the Bush Administration. While noting, correctly, that condoms are not 100 percent effective, the current fact sheet no longer contains information on proper use of condoms.

Condom failure is actually overwhelmingly due to mistakes or accidents during their use, not manufacture or testing, so the fact sheet now put out by the CDC, and influenced by the Religious Right, may be making unwanted pregnancy and HIV infection more likely, not less so.

A footnote: Concerned Women for America's "full of holes" claim was based on a press release by the National Physicians Center for Family Resources. That obscure group came under fire this summer in Congress for the Bush administration's 4Parents.gov website, which it produced. Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif. and 145 nongovernmental organizations condemned the site for misleading teenagers about condoms and other sexual issues.

"Phonics is the only effective way to teach reading"

Have you ever wondered why right-wing Christian parents and educators are so intent on promoting phonics (a method of teaching reading that stresses basic symbol-sound relationships) and so abhor "whole language" learning (in which children learn words by reading them in context)?

The answer you'll get from phonics advocates is simply that it works, as indicated by better test scores (at least when the tests include questions on phonics!). But there appears to be consensus among researchers outside the Religious Right that the most effective approach is a broad, integrated one that incorporates some phonics training and a lot of reading.

The most pertinent research I've seen on the Christian phonics fixation (by the way, why do those last two words begin with different letters?) was done by Mark Thogmartin. Here are excerpts of some of the reasons he heard from phonics enthusiasts, as he listed them in a 1997 issue of Home Education magazine:
  • "More holistic approaches to reading instruction are more child-centered and seem to assert the inherent goodness of the child, which is opposed to the basic Christian doctrine of a sinful nature derived from the fall of Adam."
  • "A phonics approach to reading instruction, with its usual dependence on drill and rote memorization, is more compatible with the rigidly disciplined environment of most Christian schools."
  • "Often, theorists who believe in a more holistic, meaning-centered reading instruction philosophy have ... suggested that a child's ability to extract the meaning from print is the primary objective of reading any passage. This may sound almost blasphemous to Christians who believe in the literal, verbal inspiration of scripture."


Probably the chief reason for the Christian Rights's crusade against whole-language learning is a concern about its association throughout the 20th century with the left side of the U.S. political spectrum. Indeed, conservative Christian writer Samuel Blumenfeld has suggested, according to Thogmartin, that whole-language-style methodology "was initiated as a deliberate attempt by socialists to lower the literacy rates in America. An illiterate society would be more dependent on the 'Big Brother' socialist government, making a socialist takeover much easier."

"Abortion causes breast cancer"

The heavily publicized "ABC Hypothesis" -- that having an abortion increases a woman's risk of developing breast cancer -- is not supported by valid research. According to the National Institutes of Health (NIH), it is "well established" that "induced abortion is not associated with an increase in breast cancer risk."

But ABC proponents such as Karen Malec, president of the Coalition on Abortion/Breast Cancer, claim that the NIH is party to a coverup, and that in fact "abortion causes breast cancer." To support that assertion, they often cite research in which women suffering from breast cancer, as well as women who are cancer-free, are asked whether they have ever had an abortion.

But in such situations, say ABC's critics, healthy women are less likely to be forthcoming about past abortions than are those who are currently undergoing treatment for a grave illness. Studies that avoid that bias by relying wholly on medical records have found no link.

Many environmental and genetic factors interact throughout a woman's life to push or pull her down a road either toward or away from breast cancer. No one factor can be said to "cause" the disease -- certainly not one like abortion, for which even a valid statistical association cannot be detected.

In an attempt to seal her argument, Malec often claims that abortion "causes" breast cancer through the simple mechanism of preventing childbirth. Perhaps inadvertently shedding some light on her underlying motivations, she has written that "experts universally agree that having a child provides a woman with a natural protection against breast cancer and that it is healthier for a married woman not to postpone her first full-term pregnancy."

"Remote prayer cures disease"

There could well be all sorts of "mind-body" mechanisms through which prayer in the presence of a patient, or by the patient herself, might provide medical benefits. But what if so-called "remote intercessory prayer" -- that is, praying for a far-away patient without that patient's knowledge -- could be proven to produce medically detectable results? That would really be something, wouldn't it?

Amazingly, in 2001, a paper demonstrating the effectiveness of remote prayer turned up in the Journal of Reproductive Medicine. In that study, scientists at Columbia University showed that by saying appropriate prayers, groups of people in the US, Australia, and Canada apparently increased the pregnancy rate in women who had undergone in vitro fertilization in Korea.

But before long, critics led by Bruce Flamm, a clinical professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the University of California, Irvine, showed that the study was suspiciously designed and statistically flawed. Then it came to light that one of the paper's three authors, Daniel Wirth, lacked a medical degree but did sport an impressive criminal record.

A year after the paper was published, Wirth, a faith-healing con man, was indicted for stealing $3.4 million in income and property through the use of false identities. He pled guilty to conspiracy charges in May 2004. (The charges were unconnected to the prayer study).

In October 2004, the Journal of Reproductive Medicine published a correction stating that another of the paper's authors, Rogerio A. Lobo, had requested that his name be removed from the paper. An investigation by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services had found that Lobo first learned of the study six to 12 months after its completion.

To date, no statistically significant evidence of successful remote intercessory prayer has been published.

Private prayer has no obvious implications for government policy, unless research on the subject is paid for by taxpayers. And -- you guessed it -- that has indeed happened. The National Institutes for Health, through its National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, has funded research on remote intercessory prayer at least twice since 1992.

"Emergency contraception is a health hazard"

The so-called "morning-after pill" -- a single tablet containing hormones similar to those in birth control pills but in a larger dose -- prevents pregnancy by blocking fertilization or implantation of the egg. Side effects may include some flu-like symptoms, which appear to be less severe than common side effects of early pregnancy, and of shorter duration.

David Reardon, Director of the anti-abortion Elliot Institute, offers this retort to FDA researchers who have declared the pill safe: "Actually, what they really mean by 'safe' is simply that women aren't dropping down dead." Like other critics of emergency contraception on the Religious Right, unencumbered by any scientific evidence, he conjures up dark images of devastating long-term health risks from taking the pill.

What has Christian extremists up in arms about emergency contraception is that it may prevent implantation and development of an already fertilized egg, which they regard as the death of a human being. That belief, of course, has long been the subject of philosophical debate. Exaggerating health hazards is simply a way of doing an end run on the philosophical question and getting the pill's use restricted or banned outright.

In 2004, the FDA refused to permit over-the-counter sales of Barr Laboratories' "Plan B" emergency contraception product. In so doing, the agency overruled its own scientific advisory panel, which had recommended that such sales be allowed. In May 2005, The Nation and the Washington Post quoted one conservative evangelical member of the advisory panel, W. David Hager, as he boasted to an Asbury College congregation -- in a videotaped sermon -- of his role in getting Plan B restricted:
"After two days of hearings, the committees voted to approve this over-the-counter sale by 23 to 4. I was asked to write a minority opinion that was sent to the commissioner of the FDA. For only the second time in five decades, the FDA did not abide by its advisory committee opinion, and the measure was rejected. Now the opinion I wrote was not from an evangelical Christian perspective. ... But I argued it from a scientific perspective, and God took that information, and He used it through this minority report to influence the decision."
He added, "Once again, what Satan meant for evil, God turned into good."

The FDA is revisiting the question of over-the-counter sales of Plan B and will issue a ruling by the end of this month.

"Terri Schiavo could have gotten better"

When Schiavo's autopsy was released publicly on June 15, 2005, it showed, in the words of the district medical examiner, that her brain damage "was irreversible, and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons."

The report did not state that Schiavo was in a "permanent vegetative state" (PVS), because PVS is defined in clinical terms and not demonstrated through autopsy. The Religious Right has latched onto the report's silence on PVS, continuing to insist that, based on the autopsy, "we really can't know how she died."

Pointing to the absence of a PVS diagnosis in the autopsy report, a spokesperson for the organization Focus on the Family said that "People are grasping at straws to justify the dehydration death of Terri Schiavo."

Of course, before Schiavo's death, clinical observation by medical experts did confirm that she was in a permanent vegetative state from which she could never recover. Evidence to the contrary, of course, could have provided a compelling reason to continue life support indefinitely. And for a while, hopes for restoration of Schiavo's consciousness appeared to rest on one man: William Hammesfahr, M.D.

The Schiavo family selected the Clearwater, Fla. neurologist to testify before Florida's Sixth Circuit Court in 2002 that his "vasodilation therapy" could revive Schiavo. But the court order that followed was scathing in its assessment of Hammesfahr's arguments:
It is clear that this therapy is not recognized in the medical community ... and what undermines his credibility is that he did not present to this court any evidence other than his generalized statements as to the efficacy of his therapy on brain damaged individuals like Terry Schiavo. He testified that he has treated about 50 patients in the same or worse condition than Terry Schiavo since 1994 but he offered no names, no case studies, no videos and no tests results to support his claim that he had success in all but one of them.
The Court was also skeptical about Hammesfahr's claim to be a "Nobel Prize nominee," and with good reason. He based the claim on nothing more than a letter written on his behalf by Rep. Mike Bilirakis, R-Fla., who is not eligible to make Nobel nominations.

"Humans are not descended from pre-human ancestors."

For a good story, give me that old-time creationism, with its 6,000-year-old Earth and big flood. But that's not an easy sell when you're dealing with school boards and other government institutions. So these days, the anti-evolution Right talks mostly about intelligent design (ID).

Many proponents of ID -- which is creationism dressed up in a white lab coat -- have accomodated scientific reality to some extent by admitting, for example, that the Earth really is 4.5 billion years old or that natural selection can occur within certain strict limits. However, they are unwavering in their insistence that individual species are the products of custom design, not natural selection. And that applies doubly to our own species.

As they labor to explain how humans were created -- while trying to avoid being buried under a growing mountain of physical and genetic data that demonstrates our primate ancestry -- ID thinkers have exhibited some impressive creativity of their own. Among their efforts to reconcile the intelligent design of humans with real science, the award for Most Imaginative goes to Jonathan Wells.

A Senior Fellow at the Discovery Institute in Seattle and author of the creationist classic Icons of Evolution (2000), Wells wrote the following as part of a paper he presented to the International Conference on the Unity of the Sciences, a forum established by the Rev. Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church:
Some people believe that the first human beings were created fully grown. But ... a creature that begins life without passing through birth and childhood would be so unlike us that we could not regard it as truly human, regardless of how great the superficial resemblance. And because human babies are totally dependent on other creatures for their survival during early development, animals capable of raising the first human babies must have been a necessary part of the original plan.
Human babies need milk to survive and grow, so mammals had to exist before humans appeared. And not just any mammal. The first human baby presumably had to be nurtured by a creature very much like itself -- a humanlike primate. This creature, in turn, could only have been nurtured by a creature intermediate in some respects between it and a more primitive mammal. In other words, a plan for the emergence of human beings must have included something like the succession of prehistoric forms we find in the fossil record.
Intelligent Design is an attempt to squeeze a creation story -- any creation story, whether it features Adam and Eve or motherly monkeys -- through cracks in the First Amendment and into public classrooms. This process is at various stages of completion in Kansas, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and other states. And President Bush himself recently endorsed the teaching of ID.

Well, you have to admit that when the Religious Right and its innovative researchers get involved, science is anything but dry and dull.

But when society is trying to come to a collective decision on science-related issues that can have profound consequences for millions of people, we need something more substantial than gripping fiction and colorful characters.

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Stan Cox is a plant breeder and writer in Salina, Kansas.

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What I don't understand
Posted by: Just Some Dude on Aug 11, 2005 12:30 AM   
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There is something I don't get. If a higher power is going to micromange this planet to create each and very being on it then why won't this higher power micro manage this planet so that children will no longer be kidnapped and killed? Or innocent people will no longer be killed by suicide bombers?

Is this higher power just up in heaven playing Sim City or something? I just don't get it.

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Polaris
Posted by: Polaris on Aug 11, 2005 4:40 AM   
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The very fact that this article has to be published to highlight what's going on the US, shows how strange the country has become. The rest of the civilised world looks on with amazement and pity. It kind of dovetails into the theory that the US is not a stable country and may split along religious and/or political lines in the next century.

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Two Sides
Posted by: michele0726 on Aug 11, 2005 4:50 AM   
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Everything human exists on a continuum or bell-shaped curve. That is that there are two extremes of approximately 20 percent and the rest fall into the middle 80 percent. This is true of IQ, height, weight, etc. The question of whether science is correct or religion fits into this as well. There are about 10 percent of people who think science is absolutely correct and about 10 percent who think that religion is absolutely correct. The rest of us fit into the 80 percent who think that there is some merit to both. Among this group we usually go back and forth without thinking either side has all of the answers. To me the main difference is if the idea of questioning and searching for truth is encouraged or not. It seems that science is about questioning and exploring, and that many within the religion arena also encourage this. However, there are factions on both sides that seem to expect that no questions will be tolerated. To focus too much energy on the extremes is to lose the point. In my opinion everyone is supposed to find the answers for themselves. I like having this option for exploration and it is always interesting to read the various opinions expressed.

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More on ID
Posted by: OldRedleg2 on Aug 11, 2005 5:00 AM   
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There is another good article regarding ID (it is titled Inferior Design) at American Prospect Online that all should read.

http://www.prospect.org/web/index.ww linked text

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There's nothing wrong with phonics
Posted by: bettsoff on Aug 11, 2005 5:28 AM   
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For minds that learn by systemizing, phonics is vastly easier to grasp than whole-language instruction.

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How DID 98% of Our DNA Get Into the Chimpanzee
Posted by: jkgoebel on Aug 11, 2005 5:38 AM   
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If we are not closely related to them, and other primates, how is it that we use them for testing drugs? I don't notice many fundamentalists refusing drugs tested on primates. Nor do I notice them avoiding medical treatments based upon the "incorrect" theory of evolution. Wouldn't that make genetics pretty bogus? It would seem more consistent for them to go back to driving out demons to cure illness. I wonder if the drug companies that fund the Republicans would be enthusiastic about that...

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This Contradiction Really Bothers Me
Posted by: diof09 on Aug 11, 2005 6:35 AM   
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I've gone to a fundamentalist church and I'm puzzled. The pastor talks on and on about how wonderful Heaven is for the saved, and yet when someone gets ill no matter how aged they are or how "Heaven" really might be a relief for that person, they gather in these big circles where everyone lays hands on the sick and prays for every scientific, high-tech intervention to prevent that person's death. No one seems to think that is at all odd. I guess it hasn't occurred to them that if they have their way with Originalism or Intelligent Design or whatever, all we may have left are the prayer groups.

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Nothing is easier
Posted by: osisbs on Aug 11, 2005 6:37 AM   
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Nothing is easier that blowing huge holes in evolutionary theory. See? Just did it. I called it a theory and nobody even objected.
Nothing is easier than blowing huge holes in creation theory.
Nothing is harder than staring at a spider building a web and explaining how it is doing this.
Enjoy your lives, relish the mystery of the planet, be in complete awe each and every day of what goes on around you and celebrate the miracle of life. Don't spend all your time trying to prove or disprove simplistic answers to complex questions. Darwinism and Creation Science are completely inadequate explanations and wastes of your time.

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Passports
Posted by: osisbs on Aug 11, 2005 6:43 AM   
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The US probably has the lowest per-capita percentage of passport holders in the developed world. We're sort of a cultural Galapagos when you think about it. Culturally, we are marrying our sisters and that's never a healthy thing.
Why is the Dodo extinct? Because it lived in isolation, became fat and happy not flying and was eventually overtaken by foreign invaders. We keep electing them, so we're well on our way.

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The Irony of Darwinian Thought
Posted by: mateosquared on Aug 11, 2005 6:55 AM   
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I find it ironic that those who believe in Darwinian science are as closed minded towards other ideas, they claim is the fault of those who believe in intelligent design or creationism. How dense could one be to completely believe that a mere mortal with limited scientific knowledge could create a scientific revolution that is based on a personal bias towards any other types of science. Darwin was not as intelligent as any other scientist is today, yet many "scientific", "intelligent" minds flock to his science because of their fear of any other option. It is inherently human to be afraid of change, so that would explain why those who do not have the security of a true God to hold their beliefs in are so afraid of looking at anything that would wreak havoc on their narrow views of Darwinism. Think past how narrow-minded and shallow your current views are look at the big picture instead of claiming that a birds beak changed shape and size because of evolution and not the fact that the bird had to adapt to survive. We all have to adapt, but does that mean we evolve? Could it be the same?

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It's all about the women...
Posted by: rebeers01 on Aug 11, 2005 7:01 AM   
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Funny, how so many of these fundamentalist 'truths' are concerned with women's bodies and their reproductive functions?

Considering how 70% of anti-abortion activists are male, perhaps this shouldn't be surprising.

If we ('we' being fundamentalist, radical righters) couldn't control women's bodies and subsequently, women's lives, how would we continue making more little children of the Christian corn to increase our political and social power?

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Losing Faith
Posted by: Riverside on Aug 11, 2005 7:10 AM   
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Perhaps many reject the theory of evolution because they have been told that accepting evolution comprises a denial of religious faith. These warnings are often accompanied by threats of eternal damnation and a fiery afterlife. This is simply tragic because there are not many who would willingly abandon their religious faith. Most of us do not have the courage of Galileo who defied his church to continue his research in astrophysics. It would seem religious organizations need to overcome their fear of losing their flocks to science and the scientists need to expand their emphasis on the compatibility of science and religion in helping us better understand both our beginnings and our destiny. The resulting peace of mind and soul would be just awsome.

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Smelling the Roses
Posted by: mcubert on Aug 11, 2005 7:31 AM   
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The previous entry about enjoying nature and not questioning how or why it happens is a curious one. Let's examine it. What would happen if, for instance, nobody ever cared to wonder HOW or WHY the sun moves around the earth? Or what lighting is? Or why it rains? I'll tell you. We'd all be living in an age without medicine, without the computer sitting in front of you, without the comfy house you live in and the comfy lives you lead. Don't be so quick to discount everything you don't understand as 'too complex to understand'. There are people that know it, or are trying to figure it out. And one day, people like you will benefit from it. Science is a very cool thing.

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» RE: Smelling the Roses Posted by: keverett
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How about their claims to "cure" homosexuality???
Posted by: salt&paprika on Aug 11, 2005 7:56 AM   
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I didn't see mentioned one of the religious right's biggest scams, the so-called "Reparative Therapy" movement, which claims to "cure" homosexuals from their "affliction." For more background I highly recommend the book "Anything But Straight," Wayne Besen's cutting expose of the "ex-gay" movement.

The Right's pseudo-science reminds me of the similar fraud perpetrated in the Stalin-era Soviet Union by a would-be geneticist named Lysenko, who claimed that acquired traits could be passed onto future generations. It was nothing but ideology masquerading as science, and it helped hobble Russian biological research until it was finally denounced not long after Stalin's death. It all sounds so dreadfully familiar with what is going on today...

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"Onward Christian Soldiers –– To The Past!!"
Posted by: monkeywrench on Aug 11, 2005 8:58 AM   
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Watch the charm dangling before your eyes...you are getting sleepy now...all right, now I want you to go back in your mind, back through the Nazi book-burnings, and then back through the Roman Inquisition (remembering what you see there)...back farther, through that worthless Renaissance, back to where the world was flat, and the moon and stars revolved around it...back through the Medieval Inquisition (note that too)...even farther back, to the days of Rome, when the Great Library at Alexandria was sacked and burned, back to where the public knew almost nothing of the world they lived in, cared not to know, and where people were crucified and tortured for almost any offense, especially the offense of knowledge. There, THERE! On the horizon! There is the world we seek! An America for the Christian conservatives!! All hail the new-Old World!! All revel in the bliss of ignorance!!

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» Cool post. Posted by: WhatNow?
all phonics, all the time.
Posted by: tabaumann on Aug 11, 2005 9:02 AM   
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Yes, there's something wrong with "all phonics, all the time." My sister and I learned to read by reading, with phonics, grammer and spelling on the side (I'm still not a very good speller, but hey, that's me). We are voracious readers, reading for pleasure and information constantly. My other siblings (much younger) got phonics, phonics, phonics rammed down their throats. Yes, they learned to read, but they don't. Not unless they have to: they think of reading as work and aggravation, and get their information and entertainment from TV.

Reading is a fairly new endeavor for human beings, but stories go back thousands of years. Get them hooked on the stories first, then work out the mechanics. Yes, some kids will need lots of phonics, but others won't. Good teachers use whatever works, unless they're forced to use specific "programs" that don't take individual differences into account.

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» RE: all phonics, all the time. Posted by: bettsoff
» RE: all phonics, all the time. Posted by: Lincoln fan
theory of evolution holds no water
Posted by: cobrajet on Aug 11, 2005 9:03 AM   
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THe theory of evolution has been proven "scientifically" to have too many holes to be a a true proven theory. Search on this site for other stories on ID. ID says that a body was created in its form to exists in its form, and could not have existed if any parts of it were changed, or evolved. OK, true a birds beak can change, but this is minor adaption.
Are you saying that man can eveolve from a lower life form, life invertebrae, and then slowly over a million years grow a spine ? That cannot happen, as a body cannot function if its parts are changing. That would be saying that I can start growing a new head, jsut to evolve.. but the body has no use for a 2nd head, so it would be wasting its energy on this. The body strives to keep the basic functions working, not trying to create new functions... this theory of eveolution is right from the Sci-FI channel, fantasy-land.

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No light bulbs yet
Posted by: Crazy H on Aug 11, 2005 9:46 AM   
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In six thousand years of claiming that they know the ultimate answers, Christians (Jews) have been unable to build a single lightbulb based on biblical teachings. It took the scientific method to get there.

The Bible states over and over again that the sun goes around the Earth. Galileo was persecuted for stating the opposite. You'd think god would know how the universe works, now wouldn't you?

Buried in the old testament are instructions on how to cure diseases by sacrificing animals. Early experimenters in healing techiniques other than prayer & sacrifice were burned at the stake as witches. You'd think god would know about germs, now wouldn't you?

In the 1950's, churches were protesting the advent of the space program because rockets would poke holes in heaven and annoy the angels. A half century earlier, they'd been busily claiming the same about airplanes. Why didn't god take the time to point out that heaven was just a little bit higher than the rockets were flying?

Whenever science and the church have collided, the church has fought back - fatally whenever they could get away with it. They've lost in each and every case.

And they still haven't built that lightbulb.

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» RE: No light bulbs yet Posted by: nakis
» RE: No light bulbs yet Posted by: osisbs
» RE: No light bulbs yet Posted by: OldRedleg2
» RE: No light bulbs yet Posted by: mkeeling@jam.rr.com
» RE: No light bulbs yet Posted by: dankm
» RE: No light bulbs yet Posted by: OldRedleg2
» RE: No light bulbs yet Posted by: LaVieja
pregnancy prevents cancer
Posted by: WitchyNy on Aug 11, 2005 9:49 AM   
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I think the comment made in this article that sort of sums up the underlying motives of the entire christian view is the quote about "for breast cancer prevention....MARRIED women should not postpone pregnancy." What about UNmarried women? Are not their bodies the same???

It is well known in the Science community that if a teenage girl under 17 years of age, gives birth and breastfeeds...she has almost no chance of EVER getting breast cancer.

This fact has not been much commented on by either feminists or the christian right... for obvious reasons.

One noted feminist did say in regards to this..."we need to base our life choices on more than satistics". In other words, we know this is true but would not promote it...as we want women to have careers, not early teenage pregancies.

The Christian Right would say something like... to enourage unmarried teenage girls to have sex and babies would be a sin.

Nature and or God clearly intended Women to have babies early...their teenage years. Downs Syndrome is also very rare in the babies of very young mothers....and the risk increases every year as the mothers age...

The right wants women married first. The left wants women to have careers and money first. The government wants women spending money and paying taxes.
None of this is based on truth or preventing breast cancer.
It is all politics on all sides....

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April Fools?
Posted by: nakis on Aug 11, 2005 10:16 AM   
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Reading down the list of positions it reads like some sort of April Fools article. Like George Bush supporting the environmental health of our nation. Alternet had such articles on 04/01.
I am amazed at the lengths to which the religious right will outright lie to the masses. Time and time again I have read of religious right groups spreading lies and when caught recant their lie, apoligize but its after the damage was done. And the apology never spreads to more than a 10th of the people who've come to believe the lie. They know this. They count on this. As it is with the current presidential administration they are dedicated to doing whatever it takes, right or wrong to achieve their misguided goals.
That's not the America I learned about in the Constitution. That's not the Christian nation I learned about from reading the teachings of Jesus.
Maybe I'm the one who is messed up.
I guess freedom is only supposed to be for some and the privelidged.
That the love of the Creator only extends to whomever happens to agree with some personally adhered doctrine.
It just gets me that these weren't the rules intended by the ones who started these things.
The Constitution supported the rights and freedoms for all.
The Gospels were about a new way of love and tolerance for everyone.

Sorry for ending with the whining. It just bothers me that people somehow take the best things created for humanity and somehow get twisted up and cause harm with them.
I'm just more and more coming to believe that this world is not meant for peace and mutual support for a better life unless the vast majority sacrifice their ego centered mentality and deliberately choose on a moment to moment basis tolerance for every other human being.
Fat chance.

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» RE: April Fools? Posted by: DMX
We Are GOD
Posted by: DMX on Aug 11, 2005 10:23 AM   
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Imagine, all our thoughts and actions are simply reprocessed sunlight and regurgitated earth, and a smattering of starlight which happened to fall on our lonely planet. Our lovely planet.

For me, the presence of myselves (me, my resident bacteria, and my solar system residence) and the universe around and within me is God.

Existence is mystery.

Attempting to explain the mystery is attempting to explain God, which I do with relish and reverence when I am not busy being myself.

The Incas were on to something.
Darwin was on to something.
We are onto something.
Forever exploring.

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» RE: We Are GOD Posted by: outsidea
» RE: We Are GOD Posted by: mkeeling@jam.rr.com
» RE: We Are GOD Posted by: dankm
» RE: We Are GOD Posted by: nakis
» RE: We Are GOD Posted by: ConnecttheDots
Once again....
Posted by: kittynboi on Aug 11, 2005 11:00 AM   
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I am glad to see Alternet publishing something like this. Seeing the left embrace science and discarding the prejudice and homophobia innate in spirituality is very welcome.

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» RE: Once again.... Posted by: eeezzz
» RE: Once again.... Posted by: nakis
Onward Cristian Predators
Posted by: pjrsullivan on Aug 11, 2005 12:20 PM   
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Christianity is nothing more than a blood cannibal cult, which reflects our cannibal society. Our founding fathers were active human predators, the slaughter against the Africans was so that the good Christian folk could have someone pick their cotton, and also have some tender meat to ride later in the night.

All that ever comes out of their mouths is what is in their heads; Shit, shit and more shit.

The Hebrew word for the definition of "The good things God will do for you is, 'Shittuf."

Their true God is other peoples property, and the righteous bunch of death sqauds they and their Sheeny Zionist partners in crime operate.

The reason we pay part of their freight in this old crown colony is because the preachers provide a vital political function to our criminal misrulers and that function is to "Foster mindless behavior." It make the slobs easier to jerk around.

We give tax free status to the criminal classes favorites and this constitutes a forced taking of labor. Slavery is another word for this. America is still a slave nation and this is why it so threatens the world with weapons of mass destruction.

Slavery is the internal equivalent of war, this is why America so loves the prison camps and the death sqauds. The Zionists, another desert dwelling cannibal group is formed into a tight Alliance with their fellow human predators, though they both desire to destroy one another because of their genocidal behavior. These are behaviors that arise from the harsh desert ecology, and they are being transplanted in to the modern world.

War is the external manifestation of human predation In its relations with external entities. Our criminal class is preying on us, and on the world. Christians are raised to be stupid so that they can breed up another generation of cannon fodder kids. When our criminal leaders roam the world seeking people to murder our Christians can prattle on about it being "In Gods hands," or God works in mysterious ways.

God loves stupid people; he would have to because he made so many of them.

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» RE: Onward Cristian Predators Posted by: OldRedleg2
» RE: Onward Cristian Predators Posted by: OldRedleg2
Institutionalised Stupidity
Posted by: ChazLights on Aug 11, 2005 1:31 PM   
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It is so sad that in a country with a supposedly fairly well-educated public, things such as this are given widescale credence. These people want to turn back the clock to the 1950s (and before). None of the nonsense they are spouting is supported by science. Unfortunately if we don't do something and soon, this crap is going to end up being taught in our public schools!

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Tarzan is proved true at last, at last
Posted by: dancerkc on Aug 11, 2005 1:55 PM   
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" The first human baby presumably had to be nurtured by a creature very much like itself -- a humanlike primate."
Well finally Tarzan makes sense, and right from the monkey-sucklers mouths.
We are all Tarzans: Uun-GAW-uh, Tantor!
edgarriceburroughs.com The only question left is which Tarzan yell is really Weismuller, the MGM yell or the RKO yell?

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Phonics is good
Posted by: bobb8888 on Aug 11, 2005 2:50 PM   
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If GW Bush had gone through phonics training maybe he could say nuclear instead of nucular.

Other than that I think a combination of phonics and full language exposure is the best approach

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» RE: Phonics is good Posted by: LaVieja
Neither Theory Is Correct
Posted by: monkd on Aug 11, 2005 3:35 PM   
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The ironic thing about this intellectual debate is that both Darwinism and Creationism are each a little right, but mostly wrong. Darwin contributes the concept of evolution and survival of the fit, and Creationism contributes the concept of spontaneous creation, but Darwin fails when he attributes random mutation as the engine for evolution, and Creationism fails when it ascribes spontaneous creation to the hand of a diety. Here is what really happens: All living things are knots of coalesced energy symbiotically attached to all the surrounding coalesced energy of living and non-living things alike in the immediate and, possibly, the most distant field in the universe. This is simple physics. That energy coalescence equates to mass. That's Einstein. Mass coalesces. That's the laws of electrodynamics and quantum behavior. All sorts of random physical attractions, interactions, and destructions take place. That's thermodynamics. It is during one of those interactions that a new force of nature arises: intelligence. Intelligence is the ability of mass to sense itself. But not all mass has this ability...only that with carbon rings. At this point crude intelligence does one thing..it develops the intelligent will to become two--a mimicry of of an illusion much like an optical illusion, to wit, what something senses about itself: the "I that is sensed" and the "thing that is sensing 'I'". At this point, one wills itself to become two, two become four, four become eight, etc. Now we must back up and say...what just happened? What we just witnessed was the basic building block of evolution: intelligence and will. At this point in our understanding of life, both of these concepts are as mysterious as quantum action at a distance. We can describe them but can only theorize how they are formed. But to wrap up, this crude intelligence replicates itself over and over (think of plenaria that pass along learned routines by being fed to other plenaria). Some of these replicates continue for eons. But every so often one of these replicates spontaneously develops the intelligence and will to change itself. It wills itself into something different. This is evolution. As a peripheral explanation, this will arises most often as a result of mimicry, an outgrowth of self-sensing and other-sensing. As one thing suddenly develops the will to mimic something else, it achieves both mimicry and spontaneous creation.

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» RE: Neither Theory Is Correct Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Neither Theory Is Correct Posted by: bornxeyed
» And if we don't hear... Posted by: Sojourner
Scientific Method
Posted by: Sbvy on Aug 11, 2005 3:42 PM   
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If you really want to end the trouble with this sort of thing, insist that your local school requires teaching the scientific method to it's pupils.

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asking for it
Posted by: mark on Aug 11, 2005 3:48 PM   
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I am a Christian Conservative.

......

im just waiting for someone to tell me that based on those two peices of information, I am both evil and incredibly stupid.
go for it, don't hold back.

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» RE: asking for it Posted by: pomes
» RE: asking for it Posted by: smuney
» RE: asking for it Posted by: wallart
» RE: asking for it Posted by: skyeblue
» RE: asking for it Posted by: FeynmanTwain
» RE: asking for it Posted by: nitsua1023
» RE: asking for it Posted by: mark
» RE: asking for it Posted by: FeynmanTwain
» RE: asking for it Posted by: mark
» RE: asking for it Posted by: FeynmanTwain
» RE: asking for it Posted by: dont_panic
» As for you mark Posted by: errandchild
» RE: As for you mark Posted by: FeynmanTwain
» RE: As for you mark Posted by: mark
» Ok, I'll say it Posted by: jenesys
» RE: As for you mark Posted by: FeynmanTwain
» RE: asking for it Posted by: nakis
» RE: asking for it Posted by: LaVieja
» RE: asking for it Posted by: spyderbaby
» You asked for it Posted by: LMNOP
SOME CHRISTIANS ARE TERRORISTS!!!
Posted by: nitsua1023 on Aug 11, 2005 7:23 PM   
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Who is bombing the abortion clinics in America?
Muslims? Liberals? nope.

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what i don't understand...
Posted by: jenroca on Aug 11, 2005 10:34 PM   
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So these "intelligent design" folks claim the world in all its variety and detail is just too incredible, too complex to possibly have come into existence without being "designed" by some "intelligence". Well then, logically, you'd have to assume that to be capable of designing such a detailed system, aforementioned designer would have to pretty complex itself. Which then begs the question: who designed the designer? If you're going to use scientific logic, you have to use it all the way through your theory, not stop when you get to whatever point makes you happy--for these yahoos, apparently when you run smack up against some bearded guy sitting on a cloud wearing a long white robe. This stuff is pure malarky--it sure isn't science.

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» RE: what i don't understand... Posted by: bornxeyed
Religion In The 21st Century
Posted by: KevinOwen@rehabilitatenz.co.nz on Aug 12, 2005 9:00 PM   
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Religion Without Science is Blind
Science Without Religion is Lame
Investigate Religion with Science, DELETE ALL SUPERSTITION
and you have Dianetics and Scientology.
linked text

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» RE: Religion In The 21st Century Posted by: FeynmanTwain
» Relative Merits ... Posted by: aswgt@ix.netcom.com
Spaceman and apes....
Posted by: moll18 on Aug 13, 2005 9:31 AM   
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My husband's theory has always been that we came from spacemen and apes.
When the people from other worlds came to this planet, they found apes and saw that they looked a lot like they did, only somewhat different. Nevertheless, they mated with them.
And, there is only one animal on this planet that has the same body odor as humans...APES!
The bible also talks about extraterrestrials, but as angels. Haven't you noticed in pictures that the angels ride fire or chariots of fire? This would also account for the disapearance of Jesus body and being seen later after death. This would account for Moses and Sarah conceiving a child in their 700's after receving strange-looking visitors to their tent in the desert. The shepard who while tending his flock of sheep, saw the angels coming down from the sky in chariots of fire.
The only problem with religion today, is it is man-made, not God made! Keep in mind, the bible was written 75-years after Jesus death. (What can you possibly remember from 75-years ago? Keeping in mind that, for me, I still have some time on that one.) Also, keep in mind that a lot of the writers who wrote in the bible copycatted other saints and changing the wording a bit.
Also, when is the last time God came down from the Heavens to chastize us sinners? Surely, now would be appropriate, don't you think? All I know is that if the Christians want to be in God's image, what they are doing is not the way to do it. Christian's, in my opinion, need exorcisim, because it seems Satan is running ramapant amongst them bigtime! (Lying, cheating, bullying, supression, killing, greed, destruction.) Everything they have been doing from the white house on down is of satan's hand and if these people really believe in satan, heaven and hell, God, I would think they would be a whole lot smarter and considerate, nicer, and all the other things the bible tells they should be! I do not know who is right, but only time will bore that out and I am not settling my bets on any one thing just yet.

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Scientific fundamentalism
Posted by: jackhill2 on Aug 14, 2005 7:43 PM   
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Stan Cox and others of his mindset haven't a clue what true religion is, and apparently the only definition of the term "God" they have ever been exposed to is that of classical theism (which doesn't warrant defending). Let me just pose one question: Do these "scientific fundamentalists" think that they, here in the year 2005, are wiser and know better than all the greatest human thinkers (of East as well as West) from Heraclitus up to and beyond Alfred North Whitehead (whom I mention as arguably the founder of "process philosophy") -- not excluding Einstein and most of the great quantum theorists -- virtually all of whom have recognized the necessity for "intelligent (I prefer the word "conscious") design" to explain the phenomenon of the universe?
Yes, Virginia, there is such a thing as a closed-minded scientist, much as that may sound like an oxymoron.
The simple truth -- more and more being demonstrated by quantum physics -- is that everything in the universe is made of Consciousness, and there is only that One Consciousness.
==Jack Hill

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» RE: Scientific fundamentalism Posted by: aswgt@ix.netcom.com
Religion 'is' as religion 'does' to paraphrase Forrest Gump
Posted by: Sojourner on Aug 15, 2005 8:56 PM   
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The squabbling over sectarianism may be missing the whole point.

The US has lots of different houses of worship, but I believe most would agree that 'religion' is not just what is said and done there.

Emerson wrote, "The gods we worship write their names on our faces." By such a definition, the real religion of the US is capitalism. Take a look at the names on the biggest and most luxurious buildings in our cities. Our modern cathedrals are named after and dedicated to corporations and banks.

Consequently, it should come as no surprise that a large number of our citizenry are most comfortable either in house of worship that tell them "wealthiness is next to godliness" or that it is the wealthy who are saved.

These thoughts were prompted by a bit in the news today about how there is a corelation between having more money than one's friends and reporting that one is happy. Since being happy is nothing more than thinking one is happy, it is what is called a self-fulfilling prophecy. Superstition works the same way.

And is there a difference between thinking one is happy while really all you're doing is denying your unhappiness? In the 12 Step movement, that is called being a "dry drunk.' Sober but miserable. Caught up in the rat race, shopping till you drop, keeping up with the Joneses.

That's a very shallow kind of religion. And so is capitalism. And so are the religious organizations that measure themselves by the standard of capitalist 'success.'

Bob Dylan told us, "You gotta serve somebody." What he left up to us was to choose whom we serve. That's what matters.

The economic leadership of our nation lives more closely by the tax code than any moral code, whatever they may say about what they worship.

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You simply cannot..
Posted by: KatieOpinion on Aug 17, 2005 3:58 PM   
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lump all Christian right together in this way. There are so many different types of Chrisitans out there and you know what.... they do have minds of their own. They aren't all brain washed by James Dobson. The Terri Shiavo case is completely unrelated to condom use! While some Christian groups of people may be very concerned about the amount of teenage sex going on, others don't think it is right to let a woman die who could be kept alive. It is unfair and bad representation to link all of these stories together under one people called the Christian Right.

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"Condoms are full of holes"
Posted by: Olympiada on Aug 19, 2005 8:51 AM   
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This one segment of this article is enough to get me going. I can not believe this. It has been awhile since I actually read the instructions to a condom. I mean they are not that difficult to use, but this is scary. Safe sex educators use the instruction sheets in presentations to college students. This makes me mad. I feel like protesting.

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the Christian Rights's crusade against whole-language learning
Posted by: Olympiada on Aug 19, 2005 9:00 AM   
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This article is so deep I have to comment on each item separately. Initially I did a search for intelligent design. That is how this article came up. I have to admit I am behind on information but I am catching up. Now this phonics thing is deeply disturbing. I have never liked it, although I have been exposed to it as an early childhood educator. Even thinking about it gives me a headache. It is like a lobotomy for preschoolers. Big brother is right. Yikes. Scary. No wonder Christian home schooling is a bad idea.
You know what really makes me sick? When all these ignorant well meaning people offer my child these books...and she gloms on to them because she is only 4.
I could say a lot more but I won't.

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"Remote prayer cures disease"
Posted by: Olympiada on Aug 19, 2005 9:04 AM   
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I do not want to say too much about this except to say that prayer is supposed to be done in private, any Christian knows this and prayer that is done in public is the prayer of the Pharisees. In other words, false and hypocritical, which is what the religious right is, false and hypocritical, and that is why I do not like them. I mean as Christians we have to know we are hypocritics and admit it. Then we stand some chance at salvation, but definitely not when we are making a big show of our prayer for the world to see. That is not about faith, that is about vanity, and vanity is a sin, and Christians are supposed to avoid sin. So there.

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"Emergency contraception is a health hazard"
Posted by: Olympiada on Aug 19, 2005 9:08 AM   
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Now this is disturbing. Unwanted, unplanned pregnancy is a health hazard. Sometimes birth control methods fail. Sometimes you forget. Sometimes you are stupid. You are going to bring a child in to the world because you are stupid? What kind of life is that for the child. Oh this makes me sick. And this is a very tough issue for Christians, one I really do not want to get in. The seminaries debate this stuff in books. I say lack of education is a health hazard. And as I said in another discussion, teach boys and girls fertility signals for one so they can start to respect the human body. Why is the religious right not campaigning on that? I do not want to take them on, but I am serious. I think it is because of their political agenda.

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Useful tips for Arguing against ID
Posted by: blacksheep on Aug 22, 2005 5:35 AM   
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A PARTICULAR DEFINITION of ‘DESIGN’ -- As soon as someone mentions 'design' in relation to the world, or particular features of it, then you're in trouble. That is what they (creationists, believers, the IDN) should be trying to PROVE - and not a premise! ‘Design’ in IDN parlance means ‘a particular set of features/mechanisms serving a recognizable purpose.’ Intelligent scientists can discern what that purpose is. This does not mean that we have to transfer the intelligence we use to discern a thing’s function to the intelligence of a designer.

A PARTICULAR DEFINITION OF ‘DESIGN DETECTION’ – in IDN parlance, ‘design detection’ means a method of recognizing patterns arranged by an intelligent cause for a purpose. The key phrase here is "by an intelligent cause". This is where scientists disagree with creationist assumptions. Notice that is it the religious assumption that is being smuggled in with this phrase. Opponents should seize on this and remind IDN’s proponents of their own definition of ‘objectivity’ (above). Design is what they (creationists, believers, the IDN) should be trying to PROVE - not a premise/assumption! DING DING - circular argument alert. The so-called 'argument from design' should really, therefore, be called the argument TO design. So straight off the IDN will have to show why they refer to certain regularities etc. of the universe as 'designed'. You won't find any careful-thinking atheists (scientists or philosophers) referring to hearts, eyes, eco-systems as 'designed' - not since the demise of Aristotelian science at any rate!

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More tips for arguing against ID
Posted by: blacksheep on Aug 22, 2005 5:37 AM   
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'The science of design detection' - what is this? The examples they give (at least the ones that work) - anthropology, forensics - are all about determining the precise cause of events that we already know were the actions of intelligent (well, human) beings. If a scientist were to investigate the causes of some other event (say the existence of the iridium layer - which in geological terms coincides with the extinction of dinosaurs) then they would not call it 'design detection' - as if some intelligent being had been sending meteors to the earth to wipe out the dinosaurs. So 'design detection' is also question begging - it assumes there is design to be detected.

A PARTICULAR DEFINITION OF ‘INTELLIGENCE’ - as used by IDN’s proponents, ‘intelligence’ is interchangeable with ‘purposeful’. Therefore, if we look again at the definition of ‘design detection’ (above) we find that our smuggled phrase is redundant, since what intelligence really means is just "patterns arranged for a purpose." So the definitions given beg the question. The question is whether "patterns arranged for a purpose" must be attributed to a separate, intelligent, cause? But the definitions as they appear take the ‘intelligent cause’ as a premise, not as a conclusion from the evidence.

Darwin’s theory of natural selection provided an explanation for design, and one that did not require the aid of any external designer. His theory offered a mechanical explanation for what had previously been thought of as possible only through the agency of mind (in this case, the mind of God).

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Two more tips for arguing against ID
Posted by: blacksheep on Aug 22, 2005 5:39 AM   
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OCKHAM’S RAZOR – this is a principle for evaluating arguments, also sometimes called a ‘law of economy.’ Formulated by William of Ockham, the principle states that entities are not to be multiplied beyond necessity. If I have two competing theories given to explain the same phenomenon, I should prefer the one that is simpler. Isaac Newton stated the rule: "We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances." The advantage of evolution theory versus creationism is that the latter demands the existence of metaphysical entities whereas the former can explain organized complexity by natural selection (observable data). Evolution is a neat theory because it explains how organized complexity can arise out of primeval simplicity. This is exactly what creationist theories do not do - they do not explain organized complexity at all.

Creationist theories cannot be disproved, since they do not make claims about the phenomena that might turn out to be wrong. You could never give a scientific refutation of them. The merits of Darwinism, by contrast, can be tested by appeal to the evidence.

LIEBNITZ’S PRINCIPLE of SUFFICIENT REASON – in his Theodicy (1710) Leibnitz argued that "nothing takes place without a sufficient reason." A "sufficient reason" is a complete explanation. For example, to give a reason for your existence by pointing to your parents is really only a partial explanation, since that leads to the further question, "what is the reason for your parent’s existence?" And so on. What he means by sufficient reason is a reason that does not depend on anything else. When arguing with creationists, you may as well accept this principle, since you can then ask them, by the same rationale, ‘what caused God’?

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Directed Evolution
Posted by: dglenn on Aug 25, 2005 11:09 PM   
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The idea that God created us and evolution was the tool He used would be "directed evolution", which a non-trivial number of scientists believe.

Why don't you hear scientists talking about it then? Because even if a scientist believes it, it's still not a scientific theory and they know it -- it's a religious belief that happens to not be incompatible with science, and they don't want to muddy the waters with it when they're specifically talking about science.

(Note that the scientific (or "pure") theory of evolution does not specify that there _cannot_ be supernatural influence on the process, only that supernatural influences are not required to explain anything in the science. Careful scientists, when speaking _as_ scientists, avoid making pronouncements on the existence or nonexistence of God, as that is a distinctly non-scientific _question_. Many scientists hold religious beliefs, both theist and atheist, but simply do not mistake their own religious beliefs for scientific ones.)

[Hey, how come closing </i> tags get ignored after a couple sets of 'em?]

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Science does not claim to answer the question of wheter God exists
Posted by: dglenn on Aug 25, 2005 11:38 PM   
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Your first and third examples can be objectively and scientifically answered. The second, the question of the existence of an intelligent creator, cannot be answered by science. While it is a question that has an answer, that answer cannot be determined by science (and I can provide evidence for either answer, just not conclusively). It is not a 'falsifiable' conjecture and thus not amenable to testing via the scientific method. (One can argue that if there is both a God and an afterlife in which such things are revealed, then an individual can objectively determine the answer after death but cannot communicate it back to the rest of us ... and the old epistemoogical question, "how do I know I'm not imagining this?", would, of course, remain.)

I know the answer to the second question, but I do not know it scientifically; I do not know it objectively; my knowledge -- that is, my belief and my absolute faith in that belief -- comes from subjective, personal experiences, and thus I cannot insist that any other intelligent person has to agree with my conclusions. I cannot prove what I know. Thus I cannot hold anyone else's disagreement against them intellectually or otherwise.

Functionally, that's very, very similar to it being a matter of opinion, even though there's ultimately a truth value out there.

(I would drag Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem into this -- the mathematically proven statement that in any usefully complex logical system (such as mathematics itself) there will either be false statements which can nonetheless be proved according to the rules and axioms of the system or true statements that cannot be proved according to the rules and axioms of the system, but I'm not sure how well it applies, since a common concept of God is that He is "outside the system" in which we operate.)

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