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Is Karl Rove Screwed, or Not?

By Jan Frel, AlterNet. Posted July 11, 2005.


For once, Bush or Rove or somebody in this administration may get an uppercut that keeps them down on the mat, or at least out for an eight-count.

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A week ago, what Karl Rove may have done to expose the identity of CIA agent Valerie Plame was just another gone-nowhere, 2-year-old, dusty Bush scandal on the shelf, relegated to languish among the lies that got us into the war in Iraq and the doctored FDA reports that suppressed the risks of Big Pharma's moneymakers.

Today, What Karl Rove Said is the story. And there's every indication that for the first time, he is in deep shit. That's really what everyone wants to confirm: Is Karl Rove screwed, or not? And luckily for us, for the first time he's going to have to answer some questions on terms other than his.

Kenneth Lerer, a former top exec for AOL Time Warner, nailed in the Huffington Post how times have suddenly changed for Bush's Svengali advisor. Here's the world Karl Rove until now has lived in:

[When] Rove says he can't be quoted, he's not quoted. Period. He knows what he says will never ever come back to haunt him. Talk to the reporter. Say what he wants to. Move on to the next call. It's like talking to your psychiatrist or rabbi/priest: It's a private conversation never to be repeated.
And now in the present:
But now imagine if some of the things you said to your psychiatrist, rabbi/priest all of a sudden were to become public. Shit. Now you understand Rove's problem.
But, considering the fact that not one of the seven hairs on Rove's balding head has been so much as singed since Bush took office, it's worth looking at what it is that will take the man down. Is it the court case, or will it be political damage?

David Corn points out that Rove doesn't need to go jail for this incident to do grievous harm to the White House -- and that's what we all care about anyway, right? That for once, Bush or Rove or somebody in the administration gets an uppercut that keeps them down on the mat, or at least out for an eight-count. It's about seeing that you can hurt these folks, who have been miraculous untouchables in their first four-and-a-half years.

Corn writes, "This is proof that the Bush White House was using any information it could gather on Joseph Wilson -- even classified information related to national security -- to pursue a vendetta against Wilson, a White House critic. Even if it turns out Rove did not break the law regarding the naming of intelligence officials, this new disclosure could prove Rove guilty of leaking a national security secret to a reporter for political ends. What would George W. Bush do about that?"

Corn reminds us that in George Bush's statements on the leak scandals of 2003, Bush threatened to "take care of" anyone behind the leak. And that he ordered anyone with knowledge about the Plame affair to come forward. Corn writes, "Has Rove done so? No. So it seems he violated a presidential command. Would Bush be obliged to fire him for insubordination?"

Rove is certainly nailed for that. His firing would certainly approach the political damage so many have waited years for.

But it will take media bullying and a concerted effort by all the progressive bully pulpits to turn the Rove's role in the Plame affair into The Question that Bush Must Answer. Oddly enough if it comes down to a political and media battle, Karl Rove is screwed only if a convincing public case is made that what Rove Did Was Wrong, and that Karl Rove Is Screwed.

Reading all the articles and analyses out there, it's pretty clear that no one has a clue if the court case will bring down Rove; with the possible exception of Patrick Fitzgerald, the prosecutor in charge of the case, and even then, he probably doesn't have a clue, either. Not very satisfying, is it? Imagine that despite all this frenzy, no one has even got a solid lead so far on whether on not Karl Rove will be indicted, and if you consider that the stretch between being indicted and going to jail for something is longer than Tom DeLay's list of ethics scandals, there's no point in waiting to find out if Rove will plea-bargain for parole before he turns 60.

Consider Sunday's Big Revelation, which comes from Michael Isikoff in Newsweek. Isikoff published a copy of an email by Time's Matt Cooper in his report that names Rove as the source who leaked Valerie Plame's identity. Here's the money-shot sentence pulled whole-cloth from the email: "It was, KR said, Wilson's wife, who apparently works at the agency on wmd [weapons of mass destruction] issues who authorized the trip."

Not only this, Rove is now known to have leaked this information before Bob Novak wrote about it in his infamous column of 2003, a loophole in Rove's potential defense now sealed. Potential defense, because of course, if Rove hadn't talked about Plame until Novak published his column, then Rove would be able to say that he learned about Plame reading the column.

So he's screwed, right?

Well, there's no proof that Rove lied about this yet, because in what has become his central public testimony is that he didn't know or leak her name. By saying "she" or "Wilson's wife," or whatever, he's not necessarily lying. Whether Rove lied under oath is still a private matter between Fitzgerald and the grand jury. And then the only other way Rove goes to jail is if he "knowingly" blew Plame's cover, and of course, whether or not someone knowingly did something is one of the hardest things to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

There is one thing causing a distraction from the wave of reports on the Rove scandal, and that is much of the reporting itself. All the big breaking stories on the Rove scandals carry a tone that makes it clear that each word tapped out by every journalist from Michael Isikoff of Newsweek to Dan Balz at the Washington Post was produced in an atmosphere where the authors were judging their work against the giant stories of journalism: the Pentagon Papers, the discovery of My Lai massacre, Watergate. Same with the TV analysts and their pronouncements.

The vanity of these power-hungry hacks swarming around Karl Rove's fate is, I think, revealed perfectly in the very same email from Time's Matt Cooper that confirmed Karl Rove as his source. Cooper writes with boyish glee that Rove told him these things about Valerie Plame on the condition that they use the Tree-House Gang's highest security clearance: "double super secret background." Cooper of course agreed, but only on the condition that Rove would supply the chocolate bars.

But that's another distraction from the real story here, which is that for the first time, there is real blood in Bush's political waters -- and that Karl Rove Is Screwed.

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Jan Frel has worked as an editor for AlterNet and TomPaine.com, and is a contributing editor to Personal Democracy Forum.

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Is Rove Screwed?
Posted by: Chuck Terzella on Jul 11, 2005 2:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find it hard to believe that after four and a half years Karl Rove might come to some sort of reckoning...then again I remember sitting in front of my radio listening to Allison Steele on WNEW telling me that she just heard Richard Nixon might resign the next day.

Sweet dreams are made of this...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Is Rove Screwed? Posted by: sunny308
» RE: Is Rove Screwed? Posted by: virgil6686
» RE: Is Rove Screwed? Posted by: yogendra2
» RE: Is Rove Screwed? Posted by: virgil6686
» RE: Is Rove Screwed? Posted by: pepaw
» RE: Is Rove Screwed? Posted by: labwitch
» RE: Is Rove Screwed? Posted by: Hodger_99
» RE: Is Rove Screwed? Posted by: hotlipsin61
» RE: Is Rove Screwed? Posted by: CK
bob johnson
Posted by: bobdotj on Jul 11, 2005 2:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is it totally out of the question that rove and a dirty trick squad didnot perpetrate this london bombing to help bush.i know this sounds far fetched,but i believe that nothing is beyond the scope of this evil son of bitch.peacebj

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» RE: bob johnson Posted by: verite
» RE: bob johnson Posted by: mountainmama
» RE: bob johnson Posted by: NET
» RE: bob johnson Posted by: Scott
» RE: bob johnson Posted by: nethergatefair@hotmail.com
Dear Bob
Posted by: sass on Jul 11, 2005 3:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I couldn't agree with you more. This whole "terrrorism" thing stinks on ice.

Middle Eastern folks hate us and want us out of their countries...? So they virtually INSURE that we'll be there for decades by trying to hurt us. It makes no sense on it's face.

We are fucked. Get ready for hard times, bub.
I have prepared myself by striving to be content
with less and by being an example of goodwill among the people I know. Of course, that won't stop evil people from
perpetrating their actions - but it's all a poor boy's got.

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» RE: Dear Bob Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: Dear Bob Posted by: nanobubble
Rovw out? Bush bloody?
Posted by: kgs1947 on Jul 11, 2005 3:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, sorry for my cynicism, but I feel rather hopeless when it comes to the media, the courts, and this administration. Rove will go on as will Bush with his bloody hands outstretched as if innocent. I see no one taking any leadership in Congress or in the medai to "bully" anyone for answers! I consider our nation profoundly lax in integrity and a desire for truth. Denial is a major dis-ease that takes major surgery in this instance. Ken in Arlington, VA

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» RE: ovw out? Bush bloody? Posted by: nardo
» RE: ovw out? Bush bloody? Posted by: Scott
» RE: ovw out? Bush bloody? Posted by: virgil6686
Is Rove Screwed?
Posted by: dagumpster on Jul 11, 2005 4:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would hope Rove is screwed. I think much of it will depend on the media coverage. I think the media has gone too lightly on Bush. But, it is tough to get to to Bush as he is quite insulated. I think when opportunity presents itself the press should ask him the tough questions and don't let him off the hook when dissumulates. Never mind getting invited to the the next press briefing or trip. Here is an administration that has gone to an unnecessary war and has changed its reasons for doing so numerous times. To have one of the main characters to be scrutinized could go a long way to unraveling the administration. This entire leaking has done enough damage and affected more people than it should have ever done. The only reason is for revenge because someone disagreed with the almighty.

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Woe is Rove
Posted by: Tom Degan on Jul 11, 2005 4:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is it, kids! The beginning of the end. I firmly believe, with all my heart and soul, that the key players in this anministration - including the pathetic half-wit we so laughingly refer to as the Commander in Chief - will end up in federal prison. Keep your eye on this story. It's only the tip of the iceberg, as they say. This is the most corrupt, incompetent destructive presidency in American history. Name the most corrrupt andministrations you can think of: Grant, Harding, Nixon - they're just a collective pinprick to Bush's singular blood bath. Ultimately, when the scandals of the Bush mob are finally exposed, it'll make Watergate look like a traffic citation. Gee, don't we live in interesting times?
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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» RE: Woe is Rove Posted by: mrsmagoo
» RE: Woe is Rove Posted by: turbocrusher
» RE: Woe is Rove Posted by: Scott
» RE: Woe is Rove Posted by: Franklin917
DEMAND Accountability
Posted by: plunger on Jul 11, 2005 4:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hey...this is OUR GOVERNMENT, not theirs.

DEMAND Accountability.

These are the PUBLIC's airwaves, not the media conglomerate's.

DEMAND Accountability of the FCC to ensure that the "News" organizations start to cover the NEWS - and OPERATE IN THE PUBLIC'S INTEREST - per their charter.

Now is not the time to roll over - now is the time to rise up and DEMAND that OUR FCC and OUR elected officials serve OUR interests.

DEMAND the truth about 9/11. If the lies of 9/11 are ever revealed, their won't be a citizen in America that would allow the NeoCONS another day of breathing fresh air.

It's time to choose sides. This is not about political affiliations, this is about the future of America.

Rove is THE ARCHITECT of the greatest conspiracy ever conceived. 9/11 was designed as the pretext for all that followed.

Read the PNAC.

DEMAND ACCOUNTABILITY.

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» RE: DEMAND Accountability Posted by: mountainmama
» RE: DEMAND Accountability Posted by: MausMasher
» RE: DEMAND Accountability Posted by: Scott
Right Bob, millions thought it is a US P2OG op.
Posted by: verite on Jul 11, 2005 4:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whether a "stimulating actions" US P2OG type initiated atrocity (to maintain UK troops in Iraq) or not, the effect among an the better educated (than US) population will be to increase demand for withdrawal of UK troops now, as happened in Spain.



http://www.markcurtis.info
Author of the book "Web of Deceit: Britain's Real Role in the
World," Curtis said: "Two weeks before the invasion of Iraq, Blair was
presented with an intelligence report saying that an invasion of Iraq would
increase the likelihood of an attack on the UK." Curtis is also the former
head of the World Development Movement.

Defining that "better educated population" ... Faux news helps us define it thus....

http://mediamatters... org/items/200507080005

Fox News host John Gibson stated one day before the attacks that the International Olympic Committee (IOC) "missed a golden opportunity" when it awarded the 2012 Olympic Games to London because if France had been selected to host the games, terrorists would "blow up Paris, and who cares?" Following the London attacks, Gibson reiterated that the IOC should have selected Paris instead of London because the British should "let somebody else be worried about guys with backpack bombs for a while."

From the July 6 broadcast of Westwood One's The Radio Factor with Bill O'Reilly, guest-hosted by Gibson:

GIBSON: By the way, just wanted to tell you people, we missed (sic) -- the International Olympic Committee missed a golden opportunity today. If they had picked France, if they had picked France instead of London, to hold the Olympics, it would have been the one time we could look forward to where we didn't worry about terrorism. They'd blow up Paris, and who cares?

From the "My Word" segment of the July 7 edition of Fox News' The Big Story With John Gibson:

GIBSON: The bombings in London: This is why I thought the Brits should let the French have the Olympics -- let somebody else be worried about guys with backpack bombs for a while.

— Media Matters for America Staff

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Is Rove screwed?
Posted by: Hans on Jul 11, 2005 4:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Beware what you wish for. At least now you know where he is, and - to some extent - what he says. If he's dismissed who knows from where he will whisper what in Bush's ear?

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Rove is a traitor - he's going down
Posted by: apodapa on Jul 11, 2005 4:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rove has made too many enemies. People will not defend him. So many will be glad to see him get it. And with three years left to Dictator W's reign time is growing short. His threats and his power will diminish and maybe, just maybe, someone in the Corporate media will allow a blip in tv about his bad act.
We can only pray and hope that Fox and everything about Bush to go down with him. That's hoping for alot, but, the world has become so bizzare, who knows?

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adp3d
Posted by: adp3d on Jul 11, 2005 5:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And Judith Miller can rot in jail for all I care because she is covering for that traitor Rove-- how he and his pal Bob Novak can let her do it is another testament to the utter slimeyness of this adminstration.

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» RE: adp3d Posted by: Scott
There's and iceberg here and KR is just its tip.
Posted by: Riverside on Jul 11, 2005 6:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need to be prepared that once the lid is fully pried off some very disturbing revelations will jump out. We will reel from it and so we must anticipate that and be prepared to stand fast and press on if we are going to clean up our nation.

I am not joking and guess who will wind up telling all? My guess is a disillusioned and irate First Lady. I consider the First Lady a good person, and like us I think when all the stuff bubbles up, she even more than us will be overwhelmed with disgust.

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Guess Who Designs GWB's Response To This
Posted by: artifax on Jul 11, 2005 6:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't count out on Rove's firing just yet. Don't you think he's going to be telling Bush how to respond to the flak from this? With their classic "go ahead and hate us - were staying the course" attitude he probably created himself, they may just let it blow around them 'til it blows by for good.

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It is a partisan issue ... it's the Republicans who have done this
Posted by: metamind on Jul 11, 2005 6:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I want you to think about who we CAN hold accountable in
the coming election: EVERY REPUBLICAN member of Congress.

The Republican party nominated George Bush.

The Republican party elected George Bush.

The Republican party approved George Bush's agenda.

The Republican party refuses to investigate or impeach him.

It's the Republican-dominated media who attack liberals,
democrats or anyone who criticizes Republican policies.

It's all the Republican party. It's the Republican party who
needs to be held accountable for the state of the Nation.

Every member of the House of Representatives is up for
re-election next November. Let's go after the Republicans
with everything we have and hold them accountable for
all the bad things which have happened under Republican-rule
and the good things which were prevented from happening.

Stop trying to "make friends" with Republicans and win them
over to good. This has nothing to do with hatred. Love them
by telling the truth. Love the nation by removing them from
power. Justice requires truth.

The Republicans have refused to set the truth free.
Instead they have practiced deceit, diversion and denial.

They must be removed from power.

It's that simple.

Steve Moyer
Candidate for U.S. Senate
http://stevemoyer.us

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Who Can Save Us?
Posted by: mgm on Jul 11, 2005 7:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unfortunately, I am a Christian living in Bush Country. I have seen this administration get away with Hitler-esque atrocities most Americans would not want to believe if faced with the facts. NOTHING has brought them down. I do not believe the Democratic leaders have the guts, power, or desire to bring them down as the R's did to Clinton. I do not see a public uprising because most democrats are, unfortunately, naive and are still wondering what happened at the last election.

The media has been bought-out. Face it.

God will bring consequences to these people who have forever changed the world in the most evil ways for their own desires. He can and will take down the hippocrates.

I do not believe in conspiracy theories. I believe in a "preponderance of evidence" and it's all out there...

9/11 was an inside job
Rumsfeld's slip


This is Karl Rove's address... let him know how you feel:

4925 Weaver Terrace NW
Washington, DC 20016

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Who Can Save Us?
Posted by: mgm on Jul 11, 2005 7:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unfortunately, I am a Christian living in Bush Country. I have seen this administration get away with Hitler-esque atrocities most Americans would not want to believe if faced with the facts. NOTHING has brought them down.

I do not believe the Democratic leaders have the guts, power, or desire to bring them down as the R's did to Clinton. They have yet to show us solidarity in that direction. Why not stand together behind the Downing Street Memo? There have been countless issues for which the D party could have united and attacked.

I do not see a public uprising because most democrats are, unfortunately, naive and are still wondering what happened at the last election.

The media has been bought-out. Face it.

God will bring consequences to these people who have forever changed the world in the most evil ways for their own desires. He can and will take down the hippocrates.

I do not believe in conspiracy theories. I believe in a "preponderance of evidence" and it's out there...

9/11 was an inside job
Rumsfeld's slip

This is Karl Rove's address... let him know how you feel:

4925 Weaver Terrace NW
Washington, DC 20016

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Most Evil Scumbag American ever or Just Bird of a Feather?
Posted by: nanobubble on Jul 11, 2005 7:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Karl Rove might just be the biggest political criminal and cheater that this country has ever experienced: Two stolen elections (treason), two illegal occupations while lying to the country (treason), kidnapping and torturing Americans and foreigners (treason), erosion of civil rights and domestic spying (unconstitutional), environmental decay and reckless energy policies (atrocity), derision of technology and knowledge economy jobs, vast migration of manufacturing and labor jobs, complete failure to bring terrorists to justice and making America weaker by putting corporate profits ahead of American lives and national security, .. the list unfortunately goes on (public education, women's rights, tax cuts for the rich, global warming, health care, media consolidation, credit industry bill,..)

Doing it all in a guise of smoke mirrors lies and un-American divisive attacks as evidence by his recent speech in NYC.

Rove probably has had a hand in all of the things I listed above while working alongside the rest of the "treason and lies posse" - Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, Rice, McLellan, Wolfowitz, Ashcroft, .. the list unfortunately goes on.

And now, revealing a potentially undercover CIA agent's name to the public - an act of treason.

Or maybe he's innocent and we're "on the right path" with the Iraqi civilian illegal-invasion resistance force in its "last throes". However, as we've all been told, there was and is no connection between Al-Qaeda and Saddam. At least Fox News knows when we gain an advantage - when London is attacked by terrorists.

Mission accomplished.

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Karma or whatever...
Posted by: mountainmama on Jul 11, 2005 8:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whatever your belief system is...the bottom line is universal law which is "what goes around, comes around." At some point these evil assholes will "get it." Here or on the other side! There is NO excaping this.

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Will the Chickens crow
Posted by: luckycef on Jul 11, 2005 9:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fact is that only a few Democrats have stood up to the EVIL Empire of W. The press and right wing radio and TV just keep beating the war drums and using terror for distraction. In the Rural US the right wing radio covers the truth and preach WWIII to the Arab world whipping the flames of a wildfirelit by KR and The FOX news pundits. FEAR and Loathing is all they are capable of. They use the fear factor and hopes of letting the wild fires they set burn out the charges that the media cowers from of these Nazi Goosestepping bunch of thugs. If you see Germany's history and the Rise of A. Hitler, It is the same as the Tyrants of G. W. Hitler Bush. Fear and race as hey use Muslims as Hitler did with Jews.
It would be no surprise if the Gestapo of W perpetrated the London attacks to scare the Brits and keep them in Iraq since they plan on leaving soon. W and the bunch will be very lonely in Iraq. Once the Brits leave all the rest will follow. We will be able to call Bush, Custer 2 as they are massacred and only the US will suffer for the rest of the world got the hell out of hell.

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» RE: Will the Chickens crow Posted by: Riverside
Something I don't understand
Posted by: fanny666 on Jul 11, 2005 9:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I admit I haven't done a ton of research to find the answer, but my question is- why are these 2 specific reporters the ones who are in trouble? Why isn't Bob Novak sitting in jail? Isn't he the one who printed the name?

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» RE: Something I don't understand Posted by: wannabersc
Render Rove to the Pakastani.
Posted by: virgil6686 on Jul 11, 2005 10:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Rove, along with everybody else in the Bush organization, has a deficit when it comes to telling the truth. Redition is a popular program with Bush and company, so why not render Rove to say, Pakistan to help him remember what he said to whom and when he said it.

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Fox News: Fair and Balanced and Radically Right Biased
Posted by: nanobubble on Jul 11, 2005 12:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unsurprisingly, Fox News Channel's website has no mention of this issue, which is one of the largest cover-up, conspiracy, national security backstabbings of the past 25 years. They're too busy covering a "Downgraded Dennis Leaves Less Damage Than Expected" (LA Times).

God knows they wouldn't want to talk about their Saint Treason

What a horrible excuse for a media outlet. They should be ashamed of their irresponsible and jingoist 'reporting' - especially with such disgusting comments after the London bombings

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When is Robert Novak going to jail?
Posted by: nanobubble on Jul 11, 2005 12:32 PM   
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There are two traitors in this case - the person who leaked the name, and the person who published the leak - both violations of federal law and compromises of national security.

Unfortuantely, the two people being jailed in the case, Cooper and Miller, are neither of those two people.

One of them is Robert Novak, and the other is potentially Karl Rove or whichever other "senior White House official" who fed Novak, Miller and Cooper the illegal information.

What is Fitzgerald doing? The case is not being handled responsibly, but when it comes to issues surrounding this white house, treason and the culture of unaccountability run amok. Disgusting.

Why Isn't Bob Novak Going to Jail?

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Rove Rant
Posted by: drpiano55 on Jul 11, 2005 12:41 PM   
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We need to look at this realistically. Mr. Karl Rove has the
impeccable Neoconservative bona fides. As a Right Wing Fundamentalist Sympathizer, he did the riighteous thing, a la Mr. Ollie North--who, of course, was as white as the driven snow with the Iran/Contra thing.

We must also praise the Mr. Randal Terry's of the world, who are able to inspire selfless folk such as Mr. Eric Rudolph--a wonderful young man willing to sacrifice lives for the greater good (no more abortion--even in cases of incest and rape) who saw a need to lob a bomb (he didn't actually lob it) in Atlanta. Hopefully, we learned our lesson: Despicable acts are okay, if performed from a pure conservative heart.

We must keep in mind that Mr. Rove's righteous acts should not be confused with things done by the likes of one Daniel Ellsberg (how dare that man object to an American war!). Ellsberg, of course, does not have the true kind of patriotic bent that Mr. Rove, and the sitting president, Triple O (Oval Office Oaf), possess. Obviously, the sitting president (oh oh oh)--a hero if there ever was one (what a war record--puts Mr. Kerry to shame!). had the foresight to realize that well over a hundred thousand Iraqis--and counting-- should be sacrificed because Big Brother Washington (BBW) has the divine right to export enlightened Neocon wisdom and thought.

And to think how wrong I've been all of these years! Karl Rove; George The Younger--American heroes.

Of course, had I, a raving lunatic liberal, outed an undercover operative, risking her life, it would be a lethal injection at Leavenworth for me.

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Rove screwed...
Posted by: moll18 on Jul 11, 2005 1:44 PM   
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Karl Rove once said in an interveiw that he would see to it that whomever leaked the CIA operative's name would go to jail. Is he making his way towards the jailhouse or does he think, he too, is above the law like the rest of the Bush administration? Bush too, said the same thing. How come he has not said a word about those leaking the CIA operative's name, about them going to jail?
Aren't you tired of sacrificing your children's lives for Bush's personal revenge against Saddam? Yes, sacrificing. Bush says we are AT War with Iraq, yet he said we are not at war with the Iraqi people. (And Saddam had nothing to do with 9-11) Then who lives in Iraq if it is not the Iraqi people? The terrorists were not even there before we got there, but they are there now. How long do you think it will be before they bring it here? Do you really think these republicans care anything about your safety...NO! Do you really think that using Christianity and having another Christian Crusade is going to bring the world together or do you think it will just piss off a lot of people, because now, we the Americans, are trying to Christianize everyone else and satanizing their religion. What makes our religion better than theirs? Please explain. The Muslims give their whole lives, whole being to God. The Christians make time for God when they have it. We trivialize God.
As far as values, this is one subject the Republicans know nothing about. My values are not for destroying this country for revenge, selling out our workers jobs to the lowest bidders, destroying everything we have worked for: our retirement, our homes, our personal information, our healthcare for our vulnerable and poorest citizens, suppression of dissent, name calling, bullying, nastiness, favoritism, failing educations for our children. Funny how Clinton, in all of his indiscretions, managed to catch and convict those reponsible for the early 1990's World Trade Center bombings, and he also managed to get the People's work done to boot. (Everyone made money and we made alot of technical advances) Bush cannot seem to find anyone, let alone Osama bin Laden. Don't you just get goose bumps knowing how safe you are with the Bush administration protecting you! Isn't that what our Society is all about now. Isn't this the Christian way...of course it is. After all, 59 million people couldn't possibly be wrong. Stupid is, as stupid does.

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» RE: ove screwed... Posted by: Scott
Where is the outrage?!
Posted by: Kelebek on Jul 11, 2005 1:59 PM   
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I am searching fruitlessly news in the mainstream media, and there is no mention of this business. This is huge news. Why isn't the media having a hay-day with this?!
ps. read the news for the firs time at Fark.com
Go figure!

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» RE: Where is the outrage?! Posted by: TheJacksonFive
» RE: Where is the outrage?! Posted by: fdr_vindicated
edtalkingbird
Posted by: edtalkingbird on Jul 11, 2005 2:06 PM   
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Bush threatened to "take care of" anybody in the WH involved in the Plame case. Isn't signing KR's weekly paycheck a way of taking care of him. Also, perhaps KR came clean to Dubya since the order did not require whoever was involved to come clean to the public or Congress or evcn God, just Dubya would have been sufficient to follow the exact wording.

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» RE: edtalkingbird Posted by: Scott
Its Up To The Media.
Posted by: SanFranDuke on Jul 11, 2005 2:26 PM   
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Now, the media should do it's job. That is the only way that Rove will get his much deserved due.

Its obvious that the Rep. leadership in Congress aren't going to do it. After all, they've got their own "criminal" in the person of Tom Delay.

The administration had no problems sending a reporter to jail because she exorcised her rights under the First Amendment; but it is obvious they won't do the same to one of their own.

You could easily say, "Its payback time."

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Novak did nothing wrong
Posted by: TheJacksonFive on Jul 11, 2005 2:27 PM   
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Proof positive that brainwashing is alive and well in America can be viewed by observing how many people are screaming for Bob Novak's head, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that he did nothing wrong. The funniest thing about this whole story is that the media wanted to make Robert Novak, a conservative columnist, look like some type of media criminal, and the fact is, he apparently never did anything wrong, there is no proof that anyone did anything wrong, and a liberal reporter sits in jail, probably trying to protect a liberal leaker. Comedy hour in the liberal community.

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» RE: Novak did nothing wrong Posted by: sterlingwisdom
» RE: Novak did nothing wrong Posted by: mendomama
Don't Fool Yourself
Posted by: pjrsullivan on Jul 11, 2005 2:32 PM   
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After all that has gone down, with this band of prissy boy death sqaud operating, prison camp building, Industrial strenght investment grade bunch of no good, and never were any good, plain old ordinary lying thieving and murdering asswholes, who if surveys are correct, have about 40% of the American people still supporting them.


This group cares little if Rove set up another American to become the object of a contract murder. They agree with the dirty foulness of it all.


When nuclear war destroys this old hag piece of shit called the Zionist Occupation Government of America, the underground is only going to protect about 10% of the population. The fun aspect of it will be the 30% who supported the actions that will lead to the extermination of they themselves. At that time they can pull out their old shit soaked rag and read about the end times and Armegeddon, and do their idiot clucking about this all being "Gods will."

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In trouble about lying
Posted by: Dorothy.Lorenz on Jul 11, 2005 4:15 PM   
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Has anyone confirmed who actually authorized the Wilson-Niger trip?

Or, is yet another item to add to the ever-growing list of Bush administration lies, deceptions & dirty tricks?

Check out Wikipedia on this topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame

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High Tech Mother Jones
Posted by: TheJacksonFive on Jul 11, 2005 4:56 PM   
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Judging by most of the posts here, this web site is a high tech Mother Jones.

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Miller and Novak are criminals as well....
Posted by: shadow7 on Jul 11, 2005 5:16 PM   
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Rove, Cheney and Bush are all involved with Miller. This cabal conspired to reveal Plame's name....but no one will be held accountable. This is the Bush WH...and that just does NOT happen.

But let's remember that there's been a smoke screen of journalists' rights to protect a source. That's been as red a herring as has appeared on the scene in decades:

Good read on this:

Why Novak and Miller are CRIMINALS:

Best lines from this blog:

It was their responsibilty as journalists to inform the public that acts of treason were committed from within an admistration of a president for whom Americans were about to vote.

If the Plame case was about a child molester and not about treason would the public feel more outrage? Would reporters and Bush supporters think that Novak and Miller should spill the beans on the identity of their source had the source been a child molester?

Read the blog:
HERE

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I SEE NO SPY....!!!
Posted by: Scott on Jul 11, 2005 6:19 PM   
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("It was, KR said, Wilson's wife, who apparently works at the agency on wmd [weapons of mass destruction] issues who authorized the trip.")

NOW where in that sentence do you see KR saying "IT was Wilson's wife, A SPY OVERSEAS, who apparently works AS A SPY at the CIA agency on wmd SPY issues who authorized the trip."

He did not say SHE WAS a spy, an overseas spy, a CIA spy operative overseas! He only said that a man's WIFE, who happens to work at the SAME agency (CIA) as Mr. Wilson, was in a top level (high enough) position that SHE could order or give clearance so that her own husband could fly to Africa and investigate the "yellow cake" questions. NONE of what KR said, read the words, mention SPY, OPERATIVE, OVERSEAS, SPY WORKING ON WMD'S. ALL he did say was that a man's wife, Mr. Wilson's, worked at the agency and gave authoritization for her husband to spend U.S. mones to go to Africa and investigate the rumors of "yellow cake"... NOW how can you say KR said SHE WAS A SPY?????????? IN FACT, KR says that "apparently" she works at the agency? He is saying that he does not know for sure, IF SHE even works there! OR if she does, it MIGHT have been her who authorized the travel (trip) to Africa.

THAT is a far cry from saying "Mr. Wilson's wife who is a SPY OVERSEAS concerned with SPYING ON WMD's and who works at the CIA as a SPY sent her own husband who also works at the CIA over to Africa"

I stand with Mr. Rove, he never NAMED HER AS A SPY.....!!!!

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» RE: I SEE NO SPY....!!! Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» RE: I SEE NO SPY....!!! Posted by: conservativerob
Ellen
Posted by: EllenJ on Jul 11, 2005 9:05 PM   
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There is no way Karl Rove is going to be let off the hook by conventional means. I think we've all seen that Bush pays absolutely no attention to "conventions." Of course, to appreciate conventions you have to appreciate what governing means. Bush doesn't. Never has. The scariest thing to me is that Rove will be compelled to testify before Congress (that's what Waxman is asking), and either (1) tells the truth (in your dreams) or (2) lies (most likely). Either way, he'll get off. Let's not forget Iran/contra, Ollie North and Poindexter and Walsh gets screwed. Please don't have Rove (as satisfying as it may be) testify before Congress before he goes through the criminal process. This is so important. Rove HAS to go through the criminal process first. I'd rather see him, as Wilson said, "frog marched" out of the White House. We all know Rove is a dangerous person. Let's not equate him with others. He's much more dangerous than Haldeman, Erlichman, Mitchell, etc. They were neophytes compared to Rove.

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Ellen
Posted by: EllenJ on Jul 11, 2005 9:12 PM   
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I get so confused here. I think that Bush & Co are so much more destructive than Nixon. Nixon at least knew what government was and although he abused it, he had some concept of "it's over." Bush doesn't know about, care or respect government and there's no one to rein him in. In Watergate, Nixon gave in when Hugh Scott and Barry Goldwater told him to give it up. Unfortunately, we don't have courageous folks lie them around anymore.

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firetwirler
Posted by: Firetwirler on Jul 11, 2005 9:18 PM   
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If only Rove's statements about liberals were true -- Liberals might offer "therapy and understanding" instead of jail time for terrorist/enemy combatant Karl Rove.

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I see no spy
Posted by: HeidiLockwood on Jul 11, 2005 10:29 PM   
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Way back when, right after the Novak article came out, those of us who were paying attention at that time learned that Valerie Plame was working UNDER COVER as a civilian in some outfit overseas. The point here is that the fact that she was a CIA employee was A SECRET. Get it?

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First Lady - Macbeth!
Posted by: doctordee on Jul 12, 2005 12:27 AM   
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Out, out, damned Rove!

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connect the dots
Posted by: cold2touch on Jul 12, 2005 7:40 AM   
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Am I stupid or is (almost) everyone else?
Ok, the law says that in order to be culpable, Rove must have known that she is a covert agent and should have her identity protected.
Rove says he didn't know her name and thus couldn't have leaked it.
So here you have an ex-ambassador and there is no way that someone with all the security clearances like Rove can find an American ambassador's wife's name!?
Whoa, but he did know that she is a CIA agent working on wmd issues and she authorized Wilson's trip to Niger. The only thing he could not figure out was her name ... an aide as incompetent as that should be fired on the spot.

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Is Gannon/Guckert back in the WH Press Corp?
Posted by: webbrd on Jul 12, 2005 8:41 AM   
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From the July 12 WH Press Conference transcripts:

In the middle of being grilled, finally, by the WH Press Corp over the Rove/Plame affair, one reporter asks the following question.

Q One follow-up. Considering the widespread interest and the absolutely frantic Democrat reaction to Karl Rove's excellent speech to conservatives last month, does the President hope that Karl will give a lot more speeches?

Does anyone know who that was that asked that question? Was it said in jest?

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Bush's Teflon Guy
Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Jul 12, 2005 9:31 AM   
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Well, the Bushies are scrambling to stop the leaks about who outed the CIA spy, and it turns out it was someone in Bush's inner circle.
BUT, but, now "President" Bush said he will nail those responsible for the leak. It was loudmouthed Karl Rove, George, and while a reporter sits in jail what are you going to do about your puppet? This is something that will stick on Rove for the rest of his political career. It's like a Scarlet Letter on his forehead that can't be washed off.
It will be interesting to see what will happen the next few weeks, and the media (except Fox News) and the public must put pressure on this administration to reprimand Rove. Rove is suddenly mute. (To borrow a line from Shakespeare, he speaks yet says nothing.)
While the White House fumbles for words it will be hard for them to put a spin on this one. Just say Al-Qaida was reponsible and we'll all go home happy. LOL!

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Grounds for the suspension / revocation of a security clearance
Posted by: Kite on Jul 12, 2005 9:39 AM   
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Here are just a few grounds for the suspension / revocation of a security clearance. Can you find a few of these that may be applicable.

Willful violation or disregard of security regulations.

Intentional unauthorized disclosure to any person of classified information or disclosure of other information prohibited by any law.

Any deliberate misrepresentation, falsification, or omission of material fact.

Any criminal, infamous, dishonest, immoral, or notoriously disgraceful conduct; habitual use of intoxicants to excess; drug abuse; or sexual perversion.

Acts of reckless, irresponsible, or wanton nature which indicate such poor judgment and instability as to suggest the individual might disclose security information to unauthorized persons or assist such persons, whether deliberately or inadvertently, in activities inimical to the security of the US.

All other behavior, activities, or associations which tend to show the person is not reliable or trustworthy.

Any illness, including any mental condition, of such nature which, in the opinion of competent medical authority, may cause significant defect in the judgment or reliability of the individual.

Any excessive indebtedness, recurring financial difficulties, unexplained affluence or repetitive absences without leave which would lead one to believe that the individual might act contrary to the best interest of national security.

Refusal to take the Oath of Allegiance or Oath of Service and Obedience.

Repeated acts of carelessness leading to inadvertent loss or compromise of classified material.


What a shame Karl wont get screwed over this.

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Karl "Rasputin" Rove Has No Soul Part 1
Posted by: ccroom on Jul 12, 2005 11:46 AM   
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Karl Rove is a walking piece of human garbage, and if he were given the power, I'm sure he'd be morally ambiguous enough to advocate a Fascist United States. If there were 50 or 100 Karl Roves in our government, not only would we still be broke and the most hated country in the world, but big business would eventually control every last one of our freedoms. I would eat Karl Rove if someone grilled him up for me and served him with a nice Bernaise sauce, and I would relish every last bite, no matter how bitter it actually tasted or how loaded with toxins it truly was, simply because of the great poetry involved in eating a cannibal. It's ok, though, because if his and his president's religious-right base are right about their views on cosmology, then Rove is probably looking forward to an eternity of Satan shoving pineapples up his butt every 20 minutes, and me cannibalizing him would pale in comparison to what the afterlife has cooked up for him.

But, you know, a man that has consistently and almost accidentally failed upwards into the job of the most powerful man on the planet probably needs a mini-Machiavelli puppetmaster for every last decision (I mean, even his close friends mention that he hardly reads anything ever, so somebody in the white house has to be capable of "strategery").

The only reason why Rove is needed at all is because our president sucks and has failed at everything he's ever done (except failing), and needs a pathological liar on his staff to help prove that somehow, he isn't a waste of flesh and an embarassment to our nation. Rove is such morally bankrupt person that he invented the "push-poll," in which RNC volunteers call Democrats the night before an election, falsely identify themselves as employees from an impartial telephone research agency, and then ask questions like, "If you knew Al Gore had molested children in the past, would you still vote for him tomorrow night?" Such questions are deliberately and pathologically designed to plant doubt into voter's minds with totally false, slanderous information the night before the elections.

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Karl "Rasputin" Rove Has No Soul Part 2
Posted by: ccroom on Jul 12, 2005 12:07 PM   
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All I have to say is that Rove would be Hitler if given the opportunity, and that his moral compass only points towards Hell. He may never be accused in a court of law for vindictively leaking the name of ambassador Joe Wilson's wife, because the court has to prove that Rove was willingly and knowledgeably trying to hurt her, and that will be very hard to do. If we could only make "being an asshole" against the law, then we might have recourse against both of the men who have been responsible for running the country into the ground. Moreover, Rove isn't smart enough to realize that the world he is helping to create will eventually not have room for even him. I just hope he ends up in jail; a few rapes might be good for him as a person (maybe to help him realize that raping people, be it literally or metaphorically, is a horrible thing to do).

Of course, if you give them enough rope, people like GW Bush and Karl Rove are naturally inclined to hanging themselves, as both of them operate in worlds in which the morals that most of us hold to be sacred do not apply. But, by the time Bush is impeached, and Rove goes to jail, their second terms will be almost over, and the damage has already been done. So, here we are, as a nation, waiting for two people to be indicted when it is already too late. Our only solace, at this point, will be all the books published about GW's failures as governor after the documentation is released from his daddy's library in a couple more years. (Oh, and Bush is the most hated man on the planet right now, and that should make you feel good that the world isn't receiving our village idiot as well as [brainwashed] Americans are.) So, support Congressman John Conyers's movement to get Bush impeached, and hopefully we can get him out of office before the hatred towards us that other nations are experiencing is irreversable.

Sincerely,

Christopher

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what's in a name?
Posted by: cbishopp on Jul 12, 2005 1:02 PM   
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Is there really debate over saying that "Wilson's wife works for the agency" is less damaging than actually saying her name?
Are they not one in the same?
Or is that just the difference between perjury and being a traitor?
Is there really legal room to slither out of this?
I am sure these dirtbags will find it.

Looking for legal, socially acceptable ways to catch these guys is a waste of time.
The one thing I admire about Rove is that he doesn't quite.
He will scrap, steal, lie, manipulate, and screw his way out.
That is why he is valuable to this administration.

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» RE: what's in a name? Posted by: mendomama
On and on done the primrose path (no change until we get rid of the Electorial College)
Posted by: Hoi Polloi on Jul 12, 2005 6:35 PM   
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I don't know where for sure all the comenters come from in this blog but the left who detest the present administration have to organize themselves. Rove will get away with the outing -I have heard that he is bush's brain.
There will be no impeachment this a rightist country sliding further to the right of the present political spectrum all the time. No one will stand in the way of the corporations and there superprofits. It's good to criticize the facists but to get rid of them is the worlds only hope. May be some of the readers of this blog belong to the true anitfascist. But they are few and far between. The facists crushed the last organization that had any power to oppose them in the early 90s. When the U.S. Left realizes that the democrats are only the party of the rich mans lawyer and there is no political party of the left and struggle to do something about it then may be some thing positive will happen.

Remember; "the Democratic party is the stitcher of the velvet glove on the iron hand of capitalism".

But the "rights' control of this country and they were very unhappy when there man Nixon got the ax and are not going to let it happen again. The Electorial College insures that there is no organized opposition to the powers that be.
Until we get rid of the electorial college nothing will change in this country.

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» Electoral college Posted by: nickptar
the american system HAS totally failed
Posted by: CK on Jul 12, 2005 9:16 PM   
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i see that many on here seem to be as cynical as i am... we are a sorry lot are we not? i'm not certain what has been learned but for myself i have come to the conclusion that the american form of democracy has totally failed... i was taught reverence for it as a youth but truly that has all been swept away by what i have witnessed... after rnixon i thought as many did that the system "had worked" but now i think that this so called working was merely a fluke of circumstance... truly, it does not work but then no one has ever really figured out how to make a good government out of a bad people.... there have been many good and selfless americans to be certain but as a whole i think we fool ourselves if we don't admit that for the most part we are about exploitation far more than we are about anything at all noble.... can someone tell me the difference between a muslims blowing things up and killing people due to their religion while many of the most prominent faith leaders give he most tepid of condemnations and christians blowing up clinics for the same reason and with the same tacit approval of their leaders.... i don't see ANY difference at all

i'll keep on voting and discussing and trying to fix it but in fact i no longer believe that it can be fixed... we are simply screwed and it is painful as hell to simply twist in the wind while watching it all go down the drain

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of course Rove ISN'T screwed
Posted by: CK on Jul 12, 2005 9:26 PM   
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of course he ISN'T screwed... it is amazing to me that anyone would think that this president or any of his handlers could be called to account for anything at all... if you have been paying attention at all you know that a small majority of the american people are simply to stupid to understand anything that is happening to them.... they wave their little flags for the guy who was asleep as 3000 americans were killed on 9/11, the guy who has gotten close to 2000 of our military killed and multiple thousands horribly disfigured for life and they would all be just pleased as punch to carry torches while marching around in a cross shaped (or swastika for that matter) formation if their simpleton leader thought to ask them to do so.... there are many simpletons who could have been chosen but the republicans happened to sell out the country and constitution for the purposes of their own special interests with this one.... it's not GBs fault ya know, don't blame the simpleton because he is obviously incapable of discerning much of anything at all... any other mutton head would have done as well for the people who fought like hell to get him in there and now control this particular simpleton's perspectives

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Im amazed
Posted by: sensitiveguy on Jul 14, 2005 5:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
hey there all you liberals! Im going to do something thats going to make you very angry. Im going to speak in defense of our great country!! Thats always good for an angry response from you guys!! Ha ha!! What amazes me is your anger and hostility towards an administration and to your military for defending you. How unmanly you all are and unpatriotic. Your anger should be directed towards the terrorist and the nations that harbor them. But you just cant hide your effeminate ways can you? Haha! All of you protestors and college kids, I just want to say thank you for helping to keep the republican party in power!! Haha!
By the way, Im sure that when you liberals move out of your parents homes or graduate college and start actually working for a living and paying taxes, youll be converted republicans before you know it!! Haha! So keep on protesting and acting ridiculous. keep up the good work and thanks again!!

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» RE: Im amazed Posted by: Samantha Vimes
» RE: Im amazed Posted by: theseeker
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