COMMENTS: 100
Batten Down the Hatches
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I am not "you liberals" or "you people on the left who always..." My name is Molly Ivins, and I can speak for myself, thank you. I don't need Rush Limbaugh or Karl Rove to tell me what I believe.
Setting up a straw man, calling it liberal and then knocking it down has become a favorite form of "argument" for those on the right. Make some ridiculous claim about what "liberals" think, and then demonstrate how silly it is. Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly and many other right-wing ravers never seem to get tired of this old game. If I had a nickel for every idiotic thing I've ever heard those on the right claim "liberals" believe, I'd be richer than Bill Gates.
The latest and most idiotic statement yet comes from Karl Rove, who is not, actually, an objective observer. He is George Bush's hatchet man. Last week, Rove, in an address to the Conservative Party of New York, made the following claim: "Conservatives saw the savagery of 9-11 in the attacks and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the 9-11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers."
This seemed to the editorial writers at the San Diego Union-Tribune such a reasonable summary of the liberal position they couldn't figure out why Democrats were "hyperventilating" and getting "bent out of shape."
"What is harder to understand is how Democrats can think they can have it both ways," they wrote. "Even as they beat their chests and profess support for military action, they can't help but criticize the military and do everything they can to undermine the war effort." What a deep mystery. Let's see if we can help the San Diego thinkers solve it. On Sept. 14, 2001, Congress approved a resolution authorizing the president to take military action. The vote in the Senate was 98 to zero; the vote in the House was 420 to one. The lone dissenter was Democrat Barbara Lee of California, who expressed qualms about an open-ended war without a clear target. Find me the offer for therapy and understanding in that vote. Anyone remember what actually happened after 9-11? Unprecedented unity, support across the board, joint statements by Democratic and Republican political leaders. The whole world was with us. The most important newspaper in France headlined, "We Are All Americans Now," and all our allies sent troops and money to help. That is what George Bush has pissed away with his war in Iraq.
The vote on invading Iraq was 77 to 23 in the Senate and 296 to 133 in the House. By that time, some liberals did question the wisdom of invasion because: A) Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 and B) it looked increasingly unlikely that Iraq actually had great stores of weapons of mass destruction, since the United Nations inspectors, who were on the ground, couldn't find any sign of them -- even though Donald Rumsfeld claimed we knew exactly where they were.
Since my name is Molly Ivins and I speak for myself, I'll tell you exactly why I opposed invading Iraq: because I thought it would be bad for this country, our country, my country. I opposed the invasion out of patriotism, and that is the reason I continue to oppose it today -- I think it is bad for us. I think it has done nothing but harm to the United States of America. I think we have created more terrorists than we faced to start with and that our good name has been sullied all over the world. I think we have alienated our allies and have killed more Iraqis than Saddam Hussein ever did.
I did not oppose the war because I like Saddam Hussein. I have been active in human rights work for 30 years, and I told you he was a miserable s.o.b. back in the '80s, when our government was sending him arms.
I did not oppose the war because I am soft on terrorists or didn't want to get Osama bin Laden. To the contrary, I thought it would be much more useful to get bin Laden than to invade Iraq -- which, once again, had nothing to do with 9-11. I believe the case now stands proved that this administration used 9-11 as a handy excuse to invade Iraq, which it already wanted to do for other reasons.
It is one thing for a political knife-fighter like Karl Rove to impugn the patriotism of people who disagree with him: We have seen this same crappy tactic before, just as we have seen administration officials use 9-11 for political purposes again and again. But how many times are the media going to let them get away with it?
The first furious assault on the patriotism of Democrats came right after the 9-11 commission learned President Bush had received a clear warning in August 2001 that Osama bin Laden was planning a hijacking.
Batten down the hatches: This is the beginning of an administration push to jack up public support for the war in Iraq by attacking anyone with enough sense to raise questions about how it's going.
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Posted by: WhatNow? on Jun 28, 2005 5:24 PM
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I was deeply saddened there was no way the US could not avert Hussien's invasion of Kuwait. I think he may have had some justification but that would never be considered in this country. So you could say I was even against the first war in Iraq. Especially now considering we were polluting the place with depleted uranium.
I made jokes about the invasion of Afghanistan saying "what are our targets? Some poor farmer and his goats?" Is Osama really our enemy? He's been a great boogey man for these neocons to mention whenever it is convenient. Is it not better for these liars to not find him? He was once our Muhjahedin ally in our fight against the red menace. Is he our real enemy or was 9/11 something else. There are too many strange instances to indict him in all this.
I do not like Saddam either, but I think his supposed atrocites pale in comparison to what has been done to Iraq since 1991.
Oh yeah, Is Karl Rove any better than Joseph Goebbels?
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» RE: Molly you'll never get ultra rich if you keep telling the truth!
Posted by: stevewilkesuk
» Why Iraq attacked Kuwait
Posted by: stevewilkesuk
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Posted by: elkac on Jun 28, 2005 7:32 PM
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Posted by: stonedogg on Jun 28, 2005 8:20 PM
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Posted by: progressivetexan on Jun 28, 2005 10:13 PM
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As for the wars, I, like every American, believed we should go after bin Laden. However, even in Afghanistan this administartion seemed more interested in punishiment and destruction rather than finding bim Laden. They let him get away.
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» RE: Another liberal tired of being told what I am thinking.
Posted by: Emmyl
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Posted by: treehuggingliberal on Jun 29, 2005 12:54 AM
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Posted by: Brandoc-D'Ha on Jun 29, 2005 4:04 AM
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» RE: Liberal/Progressive
Posted by: lterb
» RE: Liberal/Progressive
Posted by: Brandoc-D'Ha
» Put a fork in America. It's done.
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» RE: defeatist attitudes don't help....
Posted by: mendomama
» RE: defeatist attitudes don't help....
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» RE: defeatist attitudes don't help....
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» RE: defeatist attitudes don't help....
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» RE: defeatist attitudes don't help....
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» RE: defeatist attitudes don't help....
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» RECOGNIZING DEFEAT IS CONSTRUCTIVE
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» RE: What a baby...
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» But I'm your baby, baby.
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: But I'm your baby, baby.
Posted by: sheherezade
» RE: But I'm your baby, baby.
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: COGNIZING DEFEAT IS CONSTRUCTIVE
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» RE: RECOGNIZING DEFEAT IS CONSTRUCTIVE
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» RE: COGNIZING DEFEAT IS CONSTRUCTIVE
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» RE: COGNIZING DEFEAT IS CONSTRUCTIVE
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» RE: COGNIZING DEFEAT IS CONSTRUCTIVE
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» RE: Put a fork in America. It's done.
Posted by: sheherezade
» RE: Put a fork in America. It's done.
Posted by: LMNOP
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Posted by: LMNOP on Jun 29, 2005 4:31 AM
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But safe workplaces, fair wages, sick leave, Social Security, the GI bill, Worker's Comp, an unpolluted living space, paid vacation and the like all came at the expense of obscene corporate profits, and the greedy conservatives just don't want to share.
So, they set out to undo it all. Given the democratic system of government and the vote, the problem for these sociopaths was to convince 51% of the voters to support an agenda that would only serve at most a percent or two of them.
So, where were the robber baron wannabes going to find people gullible enough to believe that their enemies were their friends, and that we, their friends were their enemies? It turns out that the farms, factories and churches of the South and the Midwest were ripe for picking.
The principle resistance to this plan would come from the intelligencia: the artists, the journalists, the progressive activists and the academicians. Each of these was demonized in turn. Joe NASCAR was given a steady diet of disinformation about immoral Hollywood, the liberal media and the universities as each was smeared and vilified in turn. We liberals became elitist, traitorous, godless, unpatriotic, self-indulgent and foolish to the Earls and Brendas of Kansas and Alabama. Now they despise us and have marginalized us.
So, they will return to sixty hour / six day work week in dangerous sweatshops and mind-numbing fast food jobs for beggars' pay. Wait until they figure it out. Ooops!
But, hey, at least no gays will have gotten married and no legal abortions will be performed. And united we stand. And family values blah blah blah. The neocons couldn't have done it without the help of America's pastors. Faith trumps reason, and then a foolish nation and its socialist democracy (and its wealth, freedom, health and happiness) are soon parted!
If the price of freedom is vigilance, then the price of stupidity is peonage.
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» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
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» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
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» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
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» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
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» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
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» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
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» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
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» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
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» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
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» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
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Posted by: Rick on Jun 29, 2005 4:45 AM
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I’ll skip the still changing rationale for the Iraq War and the continued attempts to link it to 9/11. Let’s just consider what Bush said in his speech about the "mission."
If, as Bush now says, (1) Iraq is the central front in the global war on terror, and terrorists are flocking there from all around the Middle East (Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc.); and (2) the US objective for our national security is to fight the terrorists in Iraq so they will not be able to attack us here…
Then why is our mission in Iraq (as now explained by Bush) to train the Iraqi forces so they can take over the fighting themselves and defeat the terrorists? And US troops will come home when that training is completed. Does Bush really intend to leave it to the Iraqis to fight and defeat the terrorists he says are determined to do us harm? If defeating the terrorists in Iraq is really that important to our national security and the global war on terror, shouldn’t the US stay in Iraq until those terrorists are completely, finally, and forever defeated, rather than handing that job over to the Iraqis once they are trained?
Before the war, did Bush tell the Iraqis or the rest of the world that the US wanted to use the Iraqi playing field (country) to play our war game against terrorists from all over the Middle East (and that the US and the terrorists would kill tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis while doing so)? Did he tell the American people that we should sacrifice thousands of American lives (deaths, dismemberments, and other physical and psychological injuries) and spend a few hundred billion tax dollars, on a mission to train Iraqis so we could turn over to them the job of fighting the terrorists who want to harm us?
Now, maybe I wasn’t paying close enough attention when this all started, but I seem to have missed that part.
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» RE: mission incredible
Posted by: stevewilkesuk
» RE: mission incredible
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Posted by: whyoung on Jun 29, 2005 4:56 AM
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Posted by: neilemac on Jun 29, 2005 5:35 AM
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Sadly, he gave the same old rhetoric and wrong answer when he said: "yes, yes it is!"
The man's delusional, but what would you be like if you were the "theocorp" puppet with a force like VP Cheney's deceptive arm shoved up your ass manipulating your mouth? Talk about truth being hard to swallow, George W avoids it by chewing it up, mixing it with the venom of people like Limbaugh and Rove and "hawk"ers it up in lies, fear, and more lies.
Ironically, no one in their right mind should believe a single word of his, supposedly patriotic driven, drivel! Remember it's sheep whom have wool pulled over their eyes. Stop bahhing on side with the evil shepherds' tyranny. Demonstrate, protest, global media hopefully will be there to document and immediately show the world that there are sane Americans with rational minds still left in America. namasté
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» RE: Duck, the fan's on high and the stink's flying fearfully fast and furious
Posted by: Brandoc-D'Ha
» RE: Duck, the fan's on high and the stink's flying fearfully fast and furious
Posted by: neilemac
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Posted by: nardo on Jun 29, 2005 5:52 AM
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"look at that shiny finish, don't look under the hood". And I also agree with Molly that the media is playing right into their hands by giving creedence to their Busshit. I say we boycott and start a campaign against media outlets that glorify words instead of facts. As long as Americans eat up pasturized and processed news stories and soundbites, we will never win. I just hope we don't end up where we're heading, a third world, bankrupt impoverished country, while Bush and the likes relax in tahiti or somewhere, enjoying their megabillions they make from this country, and expounding the famous line " SILLY RABBIT, TRICKS ARE FOR KIDS"
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» RE: The snake-oil salesman strikes again
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Posted by: sheherezade on Jun 29, 2005 6:15 AM
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Posted by: bookwoman on Jun 29, 2005 6:46 AM
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George W. Bush lost me at hello back in 2000. I never supported him for President and I never have. I was a John McCain supporter, and I could cry over what the Bush people did to him during the primaries.
I think this Adminstration and its "throw it against the wall and see if it sticks" form of policy formation is a disaster for our country.
I say all this to underline the fact that I am a moderate cradle Republican who attends church at least once and sometimes more often each week. I never have been and never will be a Liberal.
One final thought I would like to offer is to wonder how Karl Rove defines those Police and Fire department personnel who ran to help on 9/11 and over 300 of whom lost their life. As members of unions, etc, I would assume they are probably Democrats or at least Independents. Is Rove counting them among the "Liberals" who ran away from the reality of the attacks. Does he count Rudy Guiliani, whose political views can only place him in the moderate range of Republicans and certainly not a Conservative, a Liberal. While George Bush roared into town, surrounded by Secret Service personnel, and left five hours later, Rudy walked the streets of his City, out in the open, among his people, beginning twenty minutes after the first plane hit, when no one knew what had really happened and what would follow, and continued to do so through the days and weeks following the attack.
I resent being included in a group labled "Liberal" because I think George Bush and his minions are one of the worst things that has ever happened to this country.
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» RE: What does "Liberal" mean
Posted by: outsidea
» RE: What does "Liberal" mean
Posted by: nakis
» RE: What does "Liberal" mean
Posted by: peaceful
» Good post, Peaceful
Posted by: hagwind
» Labels are just a means to divide us
Posted by: herb
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Posted by: packofwolves on Jun 29, 2005 6:52 AM
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Posted by: janetsal on Jun 29, 2005 7:58 AM
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Posted by: ggmurray on Jun 29, 2005 9:11 AM
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Posted by: ragmachine on Jun 29, 2005 10:04 AM
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Gitmo shouldn't be closed, it should be used to house Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Bolton, Gonzales........et. al. Oh yeah, and don't even run it yourselves anymore, but contract it out to Castro and his boys, they would love it.
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» RE: Did you get what you deserve?
Posted by: outsidea
» RE: Did you get what you deserve?
Posted by: Mewsician
» RE: Did you get what you deserve?
Posted by: hbw
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Posted by: revgerry on Jun 29, 2005 10:44 AM
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That said, we do indeed need a pipeline of articulate, wise, and courageous progressives to be willing to serve in every contest from dogcatcher to president.
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» NOT FAIR!
Posted by: LMNOP
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Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Jun 29, 2005 11:12 AM
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I've had enough of the whole disastrous right-wing, fascist pigs who rule Washington. Is there a way for the Americans to stage a coup to get rid of these jerks?
Iraq and Afghanistan are places of great suffering and hardship, thanks to our dreams of oiligarchy.
But like Ms. Ivins I also opposed the war because I knew what these idiots would do. They've used the military to achieve their goals without reason or logic applied to it; just hardened force from an F-16 and Tomahawk missiles.
Therefore, the violence will continue until our sons and daughters are old enough to go to war. Good job once again, Molly, and keep up the good work. You're the best! :)
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» RE: Ty
Posted by: royrogers
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Posted by: Joe on Jun 29, 2005 11:32 AM
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But no Democrats can't let Howard do that, that's not playing fair, that's not they type of "rhetoric" Democrats stand for. Have Republicans not kicked enough dirt in Democrats eyes for Democrats to finally get that Republicans are playing for keeps to win by any means necessary.
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» RE: What Rove said...
Posted by: rubymydear
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Posted by: jm on Jun 29, 2005 1:04 PM
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I suggest the following simple question:
"Mr. President, given that the Commander-in-Chief has an obligation to promote and project national unity when our troops are dying in combat, why, in a time of war, is your Deputy Chief of Staff actively sowing the seeds of division here at home?"
An added appealing aspect of this question is that it's Rovian in its intent (if not in its ferocity). It pointedly, yet respectfully attacks one of the president's perceived strengths--that he is a strong and effective wartime leader. Since Mr. Rove's intentions are not in dispute, it doesn't matter how the president answers, or even if he refuses to answer at all. The fact that the question has to be asked will be sufficient to highlight the utter venality of Mr. Bush and his political team.
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Posted by: pjrsullivan on Jun 29, 2005 1:10 PM
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Posted by: jimwhitend on Jun 29, 2005 1:42 PM
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» RE: God Bless Molly Ivins
Posted by: launcher
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Posted by: Mewsician on Jun 29, 2005 2:34 PM
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So how about it? CALL US ON THE CARPET, MOLLY! KIDS NEED DISCIPLINE!!!!!!
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» RE: I would like to see
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» RE: I would like to see
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» RE: I would like to see
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» RE: I would like to see
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» RE: I would like to see
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Posted by: Asses of Evil on Jun 29, 2005 3:29 PM
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Posted by: ConnecttheDots on Jun 29, 2005 6:53 PM
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Every action that Bush and Company have taken since the beginning of the current administration, in January 2001, seems intended to bring about the dissolution of the U.S. Maybe, instead of resisting, we progressives should help hasten its demise. Cascadia's time has come.
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» RE: Duhbya knows
Posted by: royrogers
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» RE: Duhbya knows
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Posted by: mstenger on Jun 29, 2005 7:35 PM
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Posted by: OOcean on Jun 29, 2005 8:56 PM
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No I do not have the audio tapes or the paper work to prove this has been the objective since day 1. I only have Dubya kissing the prince of Saudi Arabia, and American forces occupying a country with vast amounts of oil. No proof there at all because those actions are considered patriotic.
This occupational aristocracy is so vile and so self righteous they would sacrifice you, your family and anyone not in their country club just for another drop of that black gold. All this being performed under the cloak of patriotism, security and christianity.
I will give Rove and the boyz credit they sure do know how to stall, weave and find a group (evangelicals) that will drink and even help mix the kool aid. The consumption of that Kool aid will cease once Americans as a whole unravel these elaborate lies and realize they gave their patriotic souls to Satan himself.
What will they do next (or who will we invade) to delay the revelation of truth? Now that is a frightening question.
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Posted by: mishanti on Jun 30, 2005 5:58 AM
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Posted by: peterman on Jun 30, 2005 2:58 PM
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Peter Mancini Patriot, Massachusetts
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» RE: Thank You Molly
Posted by: degrouchy
» RE: Thank You Molly
Posted by: degrouchy
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Posted by: WhatNow? on Jun 28, 2005 5:24 PM
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I was deeply saddened there was no way the US could not avert Hussien's invasion of Kuwait. I think he may have had some justification but that would never be considered in this country. So you could say I was even against the first war in Iraq. Especially now considering we were polluting the place with depleted uranium.
I made jokes about the invasion of Afghanistan saying "what are our targets? Some poor farmer and his goats?" Is Osama really our enemy? He's been a great boogey man for these neocons to mention whenever it is convenient. Is it not better for these liars to not find him? He was once our Muhjahedin ally in our fight against the red menace. Is he our real enemy or was 9/11 something else. There are too many strange instances to indict him in all this.
I do not like Saddam either, but I think his supposed atrocites pale in comparison to what has been done to Iraq since 1991.
Oh yeah, Is Karl Rove any better than Joseph Goebbels?
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» RE: Molly you'll never get ultra rich if you keep telling the truth!
Posted by: stevewilkesuk
» Why Iraq attacked Kuwait
Posted by: stevewilkesuk
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Posted by: elkac on Jun 28, 2005 7:32 PM
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» RE: oving maniac
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» RE: oving maniac
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» RE: oving maniac
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» RE: oving maniac
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Posted by: stonedogg on Jun 28, 2005 8:20 PM
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Posted by: progressivetexan on Jun 28, 2005 10:13 PM
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As for the wars, I, like every American, believed we should go after bin Laden. However, even in Afghanistan this administartion seemed more interested in punishiment and destruction rather than finding bim Laden. They let him get away.
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» RE: Another liberal tired of being told what I am thinking.
Posted by: Emmyl
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Posted by: treehuggingliberal on Jun 29, 2005 12:54 AM
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Posted by: Brandoc-D'Ha on Jun 29, 2005 4:04 AM
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» RE: Liberal/Progressive
Posted by: lterb
» RE: Liberal/Progressive
Posted by: Brandoc-D'Ha
» Put a fork in America. It's done.
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: defeatist attitudes don't help....
Posted by: mendomama
» RE: defeatist attitudes don't help....
Posted by: royrogers
» RE: defeatist attitudes don't help....
Posted by: royrogers
» RE: defeatist attitudes don't help....
Posted by: nakis
» RE: defeatist attitudes don't help....
Posted by: royrogers
» RE: defeatist attitudes don't help....
Posted by: nakis
» RECOGNIZING DEFEAT IS CONSTRUCTIVE
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: What a baby...
Posted by: sheherezade
» But I'm your baby, baby.
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: But I'm your baby, baby.
Posted by: sheherezade
» RE: But I'm your baby, baby.
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: COGNIZING DEFEAT IS CONSTRUCTIVE
Posted by: Mewsician
» RE: RECOGNIZING DEFEAT IS CONSTRUCTIVE
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: COGNIZING DEFEAT IS CONSTRUCTIVE
Posted by: royrogers
» RE: COGNIZING DEFEAT IS CONSTRUCTIVE
Posted by: Mewsician
» RE: COGNIZING DEFEAT IS CONSTRUCTIVE
Posted by: nakis
» RE: Put a fork in America. It's done.
Posted by: sheherezade
» RE: Put a fork in America. It's done.
Posted by: LMNOP
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Posted by: LMNOP on Jun 29, 2005 4:31 AM
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But safe workplaces, fair wages, sick leave, Social Security, the GI bill, Worker's Comp, an unpolluted living space, paid vacation and the like all came at the expense of obscene corporate profits, and the greedy conservatives just don't want to share.
So, they set out to undo it all. Given the democratic system of government and the vote, the problem for these sociopaths was to convince 51% of the voters to support an agenda that would only serve at most a percent or two of them.
So, where were the robber baron wannabes going to find people gullible enough to believe that their enemies were their friends, and that we, their friends were their enemies? It turns out that the farms, factories and churches of the South and the Midwest were ripe for picking.
The principle resistance to this plan would come from the intelligencia: the artists, the journalists, the progressive activists and the academicians. Each of these was demonized in turn. Joe NASCAR was given a steady diet of disinformation about immoral Hollywood, the liberal media and the universities as each was smeared and vilified in turn. We liberals became elitist, traitorous, godless, unpatriotic, self-indulgent and foolish to the Earls and Brendas of Kansas and Alabama. Now they despise us and have marginalized us.
So, they will return to sixty hour / six day work week in dangerous sweatshops and mind-numbing fast food jobs for beggars' pay. Wait until they figure it out. Ooops!
But, hey, at least no gays will have gotten married and no legal abortions will be performed. And united we stand. And family values blah blah blah. The neocons couldn't have done it without the help of America's pastors. Faith trumps reason, and then a foolish nation and its socialist democracy (and its wealth, freedom, health and happiness) are soon parted!
If the price of freedom is vigilance, then the price of stupidity is peonage.
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» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
Posted by: treehuggingliberal
» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
Posted by: CrystalD
» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
Posted by: CrystalD
» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
Posted by: nakis
» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
Posted by: CrystalD
» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
Posted by: Mewsician
» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
Posted by: nakis
» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
Posted by: nakis
» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: IT'S BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS FOR THE U.S.
Posted by: kittynboi
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Posted by: Rick on Jun 29, 2005 4:45 AM
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I’ll skip the still changing rationale for the Iraq War and the continued attempts to link it to 9/11. Let’s just consider what Bush said in his speech about the "mission."
If, as Bush now says, (1) Iraq is the central front in the global war on terror, and terrorists are flocking there from all around the Middle East (Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc.); and (2) the US objective for our national security is to fight the terrorists in Iraq so they will not be able to attack us here…
Then why is our mission in Iraq (as now explained by Bush) to train the Iraqi forces so they can take over the fighting themselves and defeat the terrorists? And US troops will come home when that training is completed. Does Bush really intend to leave it to the Iraqis to fight and defeat the terrorists he says are determined to do us harm? If defeating the terrorists in Iraq is really that important to our national security and the global war on terror, shouldn’t the US stay in Iraq until those terrorists are completely, finally, and forever defeated, rather than handing that job over to the Iraqis once they are trained?
Before the war, did Bush tell the Iraqis or the rest of the world that the US wanted to use the Iraqi playing field (country) to play our war game against terrorists from all over the Middle East (and that the US and the terrorists would kill tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis while doing so)? Did he tell the American people that we should sacrifice thousands of American lives (deaths, dismemberments, and other physical and psychological injuries) and spend a few hundred billion tax dollars, on a mission to train Iraqis so we could turn over to them the job of fighting the terrorists who want to harm us?
Now, maybe I wasn’t paying close enough attention when this all started, but I seem to have missed that part.
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» RE: mission incredible
Posted by: stevewilkesuk
» RE: mission incredible
Posted by: LMNOP
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Posted by: whyoung on Jun 29, 2005 4:56 AM
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Posted by: neilemac on Jun 29, 2005 5:35 AM
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Sadly, he gave the same old rhetoric and wrong answer when he said: "yes, yes it is!"
The man's delusional, but what would you be like if you were the "theocorp" puppet with a force like VP Cheney's deceptive arm shoved up your ass manipulating your mouth? Talk about truth being hard to swallow, George W avoids it by chewing it up, mixing it with the venom of people like Limbaugh and Rove and "hawk"ers it up in lies, fear, and more lies.
Ironically, no one in their right mind should believe a single word of his, supposedly patriotic driven, drivel! Remember it's sheep whom have wool pulled over their eyes. Stop bahhing on side with the evil shepherds' tyranny. Demonstrate, protest, global media hopefully will be there to document and immediately show the world that there are sane Americans with rational minds still left in America. namasté
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» RE: Duck, the fan's on high and the stink's flying fearfully fast and furious
Posted by: Brandoc-D'Ha
» RE: Duck, the fan's on high and the stink's flying fearfully fast and furious
Posted by: neilemac
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Posted by: nardo on Jun 29, 2005 5:52 AM
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"look at that shiny finish, don't look under the hood". And I also agree with Molly that the media is playing right into their hands by giving creedence to their Busshit. I say we boycott and start a campaign against media outlets that glorify words instead of facts. As long as Americans eat up pasturized and processed news stories and soundbites, we will never win. I just hope we don't end up where we're heading, a third world, bankrupt impoverished country, while Bush and the likes relax in tahiti or somewhere, enjoying their megabillions they make from this country, and expounding the famous line " SILLY RABBIT, TRICKS ARE FOR KIDS"
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» RE: The snake-oil salesman strikes again
Posted by: Mewsician
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Posted by: sheherezade on Jun 29, 2005 6:15 AM
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Posted by: bookwoman on Jun 29, 2005 6:46 AM
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George W. Bush lost me at hello back in 2000. I never supported him for President and I never have. I was a John McCain supporter, and I could cry over what the Bush people did to him during the primaries.
I think this Adminstration and its "throw it against the wall and see if it sticks" form of policy formation is a disaster for our country.
I say all this to underline the fact that I am a moderate cradle Republican who attends church at least once and sometimes more often each week. I never have been and never will be a Liberal.
One final thought I would like to offer is to wonder how Karl Rove defines those Police and Fire department personnel who ran to help on 9/11 and over 300 of whom lost their life. As members of unions, etc, I would assume they are probably Democrats or at least Independents. Is Rove counting them among the "Liberals" who ran away from the reality of the attacks. Does he count Rudy Guiliani, whose political views can only place him in the moderate range of Republicans and certainly not a Conservative, a Liberal. While George Bush roared into town, surrounded by Secret Service personnel, and left five hours later, Rudy walked the streets of his City, out in the open, among his people, beginning twenty minutes after the first plane hit, when no one knew what had really happened and what would follow, and continued to do so through the days and weeks following the attack.
I resent being included in a group labled "Liberal" because I think George Bush and his minions are one of the worst things that has ever happened to this country.
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» RE: What does "Liberal" mean
Posted by: outsidea
» RE: What does "Liberal" mean
Posted by: nakis
» RE: What does "Liberal" mean
Posted by: peaceful
» Good post, Peaceful
Posted by: hagwind
» Labels are just a means to divide us
Posted by: herb
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Posted by: packofwolves on Jun 29, 2005 6:52 AM
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Posted by: janetsal on Jun 29, 2005 7:58 AM
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Posted by: ggmurray on Jun 29, 2005 9:11 AM
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Posted by: ragmachine on Jun 29, 2005 10:04 AM
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Gitmo shouldn't be closed, it should be used to house Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Bolton, Gonzales........et. al. Oh yeah, and don't even run it yourselves anymore, but contract it out to Castro and his boys, they would love it.
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» RE: Did you get what you deserve?
Posted by: outsidea
» RE: Did you get what you deserve?
Posted by: Mewsician
» RE: Did you get what you deserve?
Posted by: hbw
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Posted by: revgerry on Jun 29, 2005 10:44 AM
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That said, we do indeed need a pipeline of articulate, wise, and courageous progressives to be willing to serve in every contest from dogcatcher to president.
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» NOT FAIR!
Posted by: LMNOP
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Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Jun 29, 2005 11:12 AM
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I've had enough of the whole disastrous right-wing, fascist pigs who rule Washington. Is there a way for the Americans to stage a coup to get rid of these jerks?
Iraq and Afghanistan are places of great suffering and hardship, thanks to our dreams of oiligarchy.
But like Ms. Ivins I also opposed the war because I knew what these idiots would do. They've used the military to achieve their goals without reason or logic applied to it; just hardened force from an F-16 and Tomahawk missiles.
Therefore, the violence will continue until our sons and daughters are old enough to go to war. Good job once again, Molly, and keep up the good work. You're the best! :)
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» RE: Ty
Posted by: royrogers
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Posted by: Joe on Jun 29, 2005 11:32 AM
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But no Democrats can't let Howard do that, that's not playing fair, that's not they type of "rhetoric" Democrats stand for. Have Republicans not kicked enough dirt in Democrats eyes for Democrats to finally get that Republicans are playing for keeps to win by any means necessary.
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» RE: What Rove said...
Posted by: rubymydear
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Posted by: jm on Jun 29, 2005 1:04 PM
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I suggest the following simple question:
"Mr. President, given that the Commander-in-Chief has an obligation to promote and project national unity when our troops are dying in combat, why, in a time of war, is your Deputy Chief of Staff actively sowing the seeds of division here at home?"
An added appealing aspect of this question is that it's Rovian in its intent (if not in its ferocity). It pointedly, yet respectfully attacks one of the president's perceived strengths--that he is a strong and effective wartime leader. Since Mr. Rove's intentions are not in dispute, it doesn't matter how the president answers, or even if he refuses to answer at all. The fact that the question has to be asked will be sufficient to highlight the utter venality of Mr. Bush and his political team.
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Posted by: pjrsullivan on Jun 29, 2005 1:10 PM
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Posted by: jimwhitend on Jun 29, 2005 1:42 PM
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» RE: God Bless Molly Ivins
Posted by: launcher
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Posted by: Mewsician on Jun 29, 2005 2:34 PM
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So how about it? CALL US ON THE CARPET, MOLLY! KIDS NEED DISCIPLINE!!!!!!
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» RE: I would like to see
Posted by: royrogers
» RE: I would like to see
Posted by: Mewsician
» RE: I would like to see
Posted by: royrogers
» RE: I would like to see
Posted by: Mewsician
» RE: I would like to see
Posted by: royrogers
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Posted by: Asses of Evil on Jun 29, 2005 3:29 PM
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Posted by: ConnecttheDots on Jun 29, 2005 6:53 PM
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Every action that Bush and Company have taken since the beginning of the current administration, in January 2001, seems intended to bring about the dissolution of the U.S. Maybe, instead of resisting, we progressives should help hasten its demise. Cascadia's time has come.
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» RE: Duhbya knows
Posted by: royrogers
» RE: Duhbya knows
Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» RE: Duhbya knows
Posted by: royrogers
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Posted by: mstenger on Jun 29, 2005 7:35 PM
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Posted by: OOcean on Jun 29, 2005 8:56 PM
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No I do not have the audio tapes or the paper work to prove this has been the objective since day 1. I only have Dubya kissing the prince of Saudi Arabia, and American forces occupying a country with vast amounts of oil. No proof there at all because those actions are considered patriotic.
This occupational aristocracy is so vile and so self righteous they would sacrifice you, your family and anyone not in their country club just for another drop of that black gold. All this being performed under the cloak of patriotism, security and christianity.
I will give Rove and the boyz credit they sure do know how to stall, weave and find a group (evangelicals) that will drink and even help mix the kool aid. The consumption of that Kool aid will cease once Americans as a whole unravel these elaborate lies and realize they gave their patriotic souls to Satan himself.
What will they do next (or who will we invade) to delay the revelation of truth? Now that is a frightening question.
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Posted by: mishanti on Jun 30, 2005 5:58 AM
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Posted by: peterman on Jun 30, 2005 2:58 PM
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Peter Mancini Patriot, Massachusetts
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» RE: Thank You Molly
Posted by: degrouchy
» RE: Thank You Molly
Posted by: degrouchy
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