comments_imageCOMMENTS: 50

The Wrong Apology

Sen. Richard Durbin shouldn't have apologized for comparing the U.S. military to a Nazi regime -- new details of alleged prisoner torture at Guantanamo are pushing us further down the slippery slope.
June 23, 2005  |  
 
 
LIKE THIS ARTICLE ?
Join our mailing list:

Sign up to stay up to date on the latest headlines via email.

 
 
Advertisement
 
The wrong person apologized yesterday.
WASHINGTON -- Sen. Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.) yesterday offered a tearful apology on the Senate floor for comparing the alleged abuse of prisoners by American troops to techniques used by the Nazis, the Soviets and the Khmer Rouge, as he sought to quell a frenzy of Republican-led criticism...Durbin, the Democratic whip, acknowledged that "more than most people, a senator lives by his words" but that "occasionally words will fail us and occasionally we will fail words." Choking up, he said: "Some may believe that my remarks crossed the line. To them, I extend my heartfelt apologies."
Durbin was not wrong. Not wrong in what he said. Not wrong in saying it. And the only person who has crossed the line is George W. Bush -- and we've heard no apologies from him.

Let's review. Durbin, quoting from an FBI memo, described how some detainees at Gitmo were chained naked, hand and foot to a concrete floor and left that way for up to 18 hours a day, where they inevitably urinated and defecated on themselves.

Durbin observed, correctly, that if someone read that account not knowing anything more, they would assume the people doing this to prisoners were Nazis or one of the other despicable regimes of history. 

Durbin was immediately flamed by the White House and Republicans in Congress. How dare he compare the behavior of US soldiers to that of Nazis?

Okay, let's give the devil his due. The US does not systematically execute prisoners; at least not as a matter of course. We don't perform medical experiments on them. We don't rape them. That's the kind of stuff the Nazis, Soviets and Pol Pot did. We don't do that stuff — yet.

But let me tell you why Durbin was right to make the comparison. And to make my point I am going to use the same argument conservatives use to justify their war on drugs.

If marijuana is a gateway drug, I ask conservatives, what's chaining a person naked to a cement floor and letting them sit in their own waste all day? A taste of torture? A snort of the abuse? Where do you go from there? A few lines of water-boardering? From there it's a short step to electric shock (after all, they're already wet.)

It's the proverbial slippery slope. And we're on it.
Summary of FBI interview of detainee at Guantanamo Bay 08/23/02, Notes: "when NAME REDACTED was turned over to US authorities, he was beaten by the US military forces. He was taken by helicopter to an unknown location where he was beaten. While his eyes were covered, he was kicked in the stomach and back by several individuals. He noted American English accents. After being moved to an unknown facility in Bagram, his head was placed against the cement floor and his head was kicked. As a result of other beatings... REDACTED received a broken shoulder. During one evening REDACTED was left outside of the facility where he was being held. The ground was wet and it was snowing. He was wearing only pants and a ragged shirt. As a result of being out in the cold, he became unconscious. . . . . When he was moved to Kandahar, he was not beaten as frequently and severely... He was dragged three times to interrogations. On one occasion during prayer time, a soldier placed his foot on REDACTED head and sat on his head. REDACTED stated that the soldiers wore tan and brown camouflage uniforms, with US flags on their arms." (More FBI Memos)
If you think about all this for a moment with the partisan side of your brain turned off, you can see that all Durbin was trying to do was what any responsible parent of a teen would do after finding meth in their daughter's purse. He was trying to warn that we are playing with fire.

But, instead of listening up, his colleagues got all defensive, ganged up and beat the crap out of him. They kept it up until he agreed to say, "it ain't so."

Well it is so, and Durbin should not have caved. But clearly these patients remain in deep denial and are not quite ready to admit they're becoming hooked on the stuff -- far from it. Nightly now we hear Neo-cons and their supporters on talk shows actually justifying the rough treatment of POWs, treatment that just a generation ago would have had American civilians reaching for the air sickness bag.

But suddenly brutal humiliation of POWs in our care has become "necessary."

I don't quite understand why. Torture wasn't necessary 60 years ago when literally all of Western civilization was threatened by German fascism. Torture wasn't necessary during the Cold War, when the former Soviet Union had both the weapons and inclination to fricassee everyone west of Poland.

But today, when a few thousand certifiably crazy radical Muslims go on a murderous rampage, the fate of the nation suddenly hinges on being able to "rough up" (a.k.a. torture) prisoners. I don't get it. (Could it be that torture has replaced good intelligence-gathering?)

When Durbin made his original remarks, he was, in effect, launching an intervention. Anyone who has ever been involved with a drug or alcohol-dependent person knows the signs, and they are all here.

First they lie: "I don't do it."

Confronted with the evidence, the response becomes, "Okay, but I only tried it a couple of times." Then, when caught again, "What's the big deal? Everyone does it."

Then, when it gets personal, they try to seperate what they do from what they are. "It's just a thing I do. It does not define who I am," and "Just because I do it does not make me a bad person."

Finally, this: "Okay, okay. I do it. But I can stop anytime I want."

Maybe what Durbin should have suggested is a 12-step program for the administration's Neo-cons, to slowly wean them off this self-destructive behavior. The trouble is, from the reaction he got to his remarks, it's clear they are ready for the cure -- they just haven’t hit bottom yet.

The trouble is that if we wait until they do hit bottom, they’ll take the rest of us down with them.

What will it take before someone like Durbin can try again? Will it take an indictment form the World Court, seeking extradition of US officials to join the likes of Serbian butcher Molosevic in The Hague? What will it take before we say, basta! Enough! 

It's not like the administration doesn't know what it's doing is wrong, and has since the beginning. Trying to hide evidence of a crime is the strongest evidence that a perp knows the difference between right and wrong. 
Washington, July 2004 -- The federal government's secrecy watchdog has asked the Pentagon to explain why parts of a memo about the interrogation of terror detainees were classified, even though they discussed the political fall-out if the use of certain techniques became public. The memo, declassified and released last month, is the report of a working group on interrogation techniques established in January 2003 by the Defense Department's general counsel. The relevant passage -- marked "secret" ... is part of a discussion of the consequences for criminal and military prosecutions of detainees and others if the public became aware of the use of so-called "coercive interrogation techniques. It reads, "Consideration must be given to the public's reaction to methods of interrogation that may affect the military commission process. The more coercive the method, the greater the likelihood that the method will be met with significant domestic and international resistance."
Maybe the answer can be found in the parents of the men and women now serving in the armed forces. A little parental guidance might be needed to balance the gung-ho propaganda they get from their commanders.

Maybe parents might want to read some of the FBI memos that document how some US troops are treating prisoners in Iraq, Afghanistan and Gitmo.  Then, let them visualize their lovely son or daughter chaining another human, naked, to a cold cement floor for a day. Imagine their darling daughter watching, even laughing, as the prisoner soils himself, then sits in it. Visualize their child, the fruit of their loins, the A-student, the Homecoming King or Queen, holding a thrashing prisoner's head underwater, repeatedly; their son, the freckle-faced former neighborhood paperboy, mocking and humiliating a terrified naked prisoner.

Then maybe if those moms and dads wrote to their kids and said:
Dearest Son (Daughter,) We hear and see many disturbing things on the news about how some US troops are mistreating the prisoners in their care.  Please assure us you are not among the soldiers guilty of such un-American, unholy behavior. Because, it would surely break our hearts if you were.

Love, Mom, Dad (& Sparky!)

submit to reddit
Stephen Pizzo is the author of numerous books, including "Inside Job: The Looting of America's Savings and Loans," which was nominated for a Pulitzer.
Email
Print
Share
Post on reddit
Post on stumbleupon
Post on facebook
Post on digg
Post on twitter
Post on delicious
LIKED THIS ARTICLE? JOIN OUR EMAIL LIST
Stay up to date with the latest AlterNet headlines via email
 
Alternet Comments:

Comments are closed-

Do onto others
Posted by: sapatatanka on Jun 23, 2005 2:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
American parents should visualize their sons and daughters being subjected to the treatment described in FBI and other reports.

Then they ought to meditate on justice, secular and divine law.

Does anyone not believe that this just might possibly lead to some changes?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Do onto others Posted by: DaftAida

Comments are closed-

Typical Democrat coward
Posted by: thx1138 on Jun 23, 2005 4:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everytime a Demcorat apologizes for saying something worthy, and reflective of their beliefs, they strengthen the Republicans by demostrating to Americans that they have no core values and are weak and spineless. The apologies prove that Democrats won't stand up and fight for; They won't battle hard for issues; they don't believe and trust in themselves; they don't have the courage to face the fire of criticism; they have no convictions. The apologies bolster stupid comments like John Kerry made: "I voted for the bill before I opposed it."
I am so sick and tired of Democrats apologizing for saying what they believe in or for saying something that shows resistance tot he fascits. When will they begin to fight?
I WANT A LEADER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Typical Democrat coward Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: Typical Democrat coward Posted by: The Heretic

Comments are closed-

Petition to support Sen. Durbin's Guantanamo Statement
Posted by: gregmccain on Jun 23, 2005 5:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a resident of Illinios and I support the statement made by Sen. Durbin (D. IL) concerning prisoner abuse at Guantanamo bay. His words are being twisted by some in the media and on the other side of the aisle in the Senate. Please read his words for yourself and then if you agree with them please sign the petition at the other link that shows your support. Senator Durbin has allways shown his support for the U.S. troops through his word and deeds, but now some want to portray him as a traitor and supporter of terrorists. Take the time to show those in the Senate majority that Senator Durbin represents the views of the majority of the people.

http:// www.thepetitionsite.com /takeaction/ 641648866

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

The Nazi connection is right on the nose
Posted by: acaryatid on Jun 23, 2005 5:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What continues to be one of the greatest publicity successes of the Bush regime is the absence of the family's Nazi connections in the press. Nearly two dozen companies seized during WWII under Trading with the Enemy Act had on their boards Prescot Bush. Evidence of the seizures is part of the Congressional Record. Anyone who wants to explore the links should read Antony Sutton's works on America's Secret Establishment, the Order of the Skull & Bones. It will knock your socks off and make the mess we're in crystal clear.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Sickening Posted by: brasilaron

Comments are closed-

Culture of Life?
Posted by: jkgoebel on Jun 23, 2005 5:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think it would be useful to ask the NeoCons who try to justify torture exactly where it fits into the "culture of life". It is not okay to harvest cells from an embryo to be used to potentially cure horrible diseases but it is okay to torture a sentient adult person who was rounded up in Afghanistan years ago because they might know some fact that would aid us now in a war in Iraq and might be pursuaded to reveal it under extreme pain or misery? It is not okay to allow a family to honor the wishes of a persistently vegetative person that they be allowed to die with dignity, but it is acceptable if we murder over a hundred prisoners in our custody in the course of questioning them? And those of us who don't participate , but allow them to do these things in our name without speaking up, share the guilt. I thank Dick Durbin for speaking out against atrocities performed in our name!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Culture of Life? Posted by: Rosford

Comments are closed-

I didn't even finish reading the article when I came across this....!
Posted by: Pepper on Jun 23, 2005 6:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
....and I simply stopped reading and came immediately to the comment button. Here it is and then I will go back and finish reading.

"The US does not systematically execute prisoners; at least not as a matter of course. We don't perform medical experiments on them. We don't rape them. "

This was the authors own words, which tells me the author himself is totally unaware of the extent of the horrors perpetrated by this admin that fits hand in glove with the Nazi way of doing business.

Indeed, we are experimenting on old people, killing soldiers with our medical experiments, and children. Abu Ghrai also had rapes of little children in front of their mothers to make the mothers talk: don't believe me? Ask Seymour Hersh, he saw the videos and was so offended he was unable to talk about it until much later.

Murdering? Yes, indeed we have tortured until they died and those are currently being investigated but alas, I fear that investigation will go by the way of all investigations in this administration. It will simply fade into oblivion.

I emailed Mr. Durbin and told him to maintain his courage in speaking the truth and I am sorry he could not find the courage to stay with it. If he lacks that courage now, it will simply get worse and I fear our leaders lack the moral and intestinal fortitude that will be required of them to withstand what is yet to come. As someone once said, "YOU AIN'T SEEN NOTHIN, YET, BABY"! Because we are doing nothing, we will indeed be like the Germans and we will pay ultimately down the road. Please try to remember 500,000 men, women, old people and children
died in the bombing of dresden and in the aftermath, so we will pay eventually.

No dictatorship survives for very long. I don't care if they do overturn the 22 amendment, there are other ways of ending dictatorships in the end. History tells us that very nicely.

Its not a matter of "if" rather of "when" with this administration. They will get worse before they get better. Try to think of this like "extreme risk sports". The more they get away with all this and the less impact it has on their adrenals, the worse they will get to try for that adrenalin rush that marks the psychopath.

WE are doomed!!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Never apologize for voicing the truth!
Posted by: neilemac on Jun 23, 2005 6:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those Bushites always twist the truth of Democratics because the Bushites are twisted people. They consistently revert blame to cover their own guilt. Bravo Sen. Durbin for the courage to speak up; but please, never apologize for telling the truth. Could it be you were pressured from the Bushistas with threats of similar Gitmo tactics happening to you? Wouldn't doubt it if you were. In my life I have not seen or witnessed more slime from the Congress, Senate and White House. The continued torture and cover-up in Guatanimo Bay makes Nixon's Watergate illegal break-in look like a teaparty.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Lost respect
Posted by: Erin on Jun 23, 2005 6:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Senator Durbin had nothing to apologize for, and should not have done so. I always get excited when someone has the balls to stand up and say it as it is. Then, they take a little heat and they put their tail between their legs and run. I guess it's where the term "flip-flop" comes from. When the criticism starts all they think about is getting re-elected and they cave in. Senator Durbin did not call American troops Nazis, he simply said that IF you read that report and did not know where it came from you MIGHT think it was about some group/regime LIKE the Nazis. When I see the pictures of Abu-Graib and read a report like this FBI one, I get outraged to think that our military is resorting to this kind of illegal and inhumane torture. So, as regards to Senator Durbin, I have lost respect for another politician who cannot stand up and tell the truth and then stick to it no matter what anyone says and no matter what the political consequences. We need more truth and more people of courage to speak the truth; AND NEVER BACK DOWN!!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

First Byrd, now Durbin
Posted by: maxpayne on Jun 23, 2005 6:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course, there have been plenty of times Democrats have made themselves nothing but an apologist party. Bush knowingly misled this country into war and I have yet to hear a f***in' apology from that mf and his neocon nazi minions in the administration !

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: First Byrd, now Durbin Posted by: paschn@comcast.net

Comments are closed-

If you think that is bad, wait until they appoint that new supreme court justice
Posted by: Pepper on Jun 23, 2005 6:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then we will really be in trouble. Wait until they split the 9th district into two to reduce the power of the one and only appeals court that still upholds the Constitution. Then it will truly be over.

I don't want to hear anymore talk about gun control since now we KNOW why we have a 2nd amendment. Thanks

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Why Bush isn't Hitler
Posted by: AdamSelene40 on Jun 23, 2005 6:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Basically: by the Grace of G-d alone

Specifically:
By the time Prescott Bush's grandson got into office the Nazis had pretty much spoiled murderous racism for everyone. Too far, too fast, to too little purpose and to such a degree it even revolted the iron-stomached Winston Churchill --disgusting The Great Tory moral grounds was as difficult as offending Larry Flynt on sexual ones.

However, Hitler did do one favor for all fascists coming after him ... he set a standard of horror so extreme and so senseless that by comparision everyone else is 'not as bad' which to some minds is 'as good as innocent.' Pol Pot? Political, not racial genocide. Darfur -- thousands, not millions. Rowanda -- inferior technology and organization.

Guantanamo ? Most of the victims survive.

But here's something to contimplate: The goals of the Reaganites and the Fascists are basically the same -- a 'disciplined labor force' serving a robust economy governed by a Party whose apparat is chosen by the Capitalist Elite. The methods are also similar 'whatever is neccessary, whatever works.'

Jews were the designated victims in Europe for about thousand years when the Nazis came along. The Holocaust was the only reward the Reich could offer their working and middle class supporters. Jewish suffering made Germans happy and almost content -- as they were being themselves enslaved and sent to a battlefront holocaust of their own.

With neocons, 'Gays' serve much the same purpose -- but without the expense of building Camps. Homosexuals have been designated victims, if anything, 500 years longer than Jews and are now, along with "Terrorist Suspects" the last unprotected Outsiders. One can no longer wear a nice suit, say "The Blacks are Our Misfortune" and expect to be taken seriously. But "The Fags are our Misfortune" ... that works. It merits a Defense of Marriage Constitutional Amendment -- and it satisfies the hate lust of the American Brown Shirt. And, the genius of Gay as Jew ... you can never run out of Gays.

Come to think of it, Empires never run out of Terrorists either -- vide: "Dagger Men" in Jerusalem circa '01 BCE.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Why Bush isn't Hitler Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: Why Bush isn't Hitler Posted by: royrogers
» RE: Why Bush isn't Hitler Posted by: yesman
» RE: Why Bush isn't Hitler Posted by: royrogers

Comments are closed-

"Tears Shed = Ground Lost"
Posted by: monkeywrench on Jun 23, 2005 7:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Someone should look under Senator Durbin's suit for whelts from rubber hoses or brass knuckles. What did the Republicans do to him to make him retract his statement IN TEARS?! Did Senator Frist try out some new surgical techniques on poor Mr. Durbin? Was Durbin given an up-close-and-personal lesson in Gitmo intel methods? Or was it even more frightening to the good Senator: that the Republicans sat him in a corner and read him chapter and verse of the Gospel of Bush: "How to keep your job, and your family's reputation, in Washington."?

Talk about sending the wrong message to the enemy! Senator Durbin, what does it say to the bully Repuglicans when Democrats turn into crybabies who won't fight back?

For Republicans, it says: "VICTORY AT LAST!"

For the rest of us, it says: "We're done for."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: "Tears Shed = Ground Lost" Posted by: royrogers

Comments are closed-

Call Sen. Durbin & request retraction of apology
Posted by: thx1138 on Jun 23, 2005 8:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And ask him to stand by his original statement
312 353 4952
202 224 2152
202 225 2152 (fax)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

LOL LOL
Posted by: apodopa on Jun 23, 2005 8:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you Senator Durbin. It's proof that Democrats are afraid of the Israel lobby and the Christian Coalition and the neo-cons and the media and - BOO! Hahaha
When a Democrat with a backbone comes along make sure to tell him he's got it so he'll know and then he can have it removed to satisfy the rest of the party. hahah

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Let Durbin Know
Posted by: Riverside on Jun 23, 2005 8:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Immediately after I heard about Senator Durbin's statement in the Senate, I called his office in Washington and praised his efforts. We ALL need to do this to let those politicians who are fighting to save this nation that they are appreciated.

I am sorry he apologized and I wonder if more of us had really let him know we supported his statement if he would have held firm.

Remember, all that he said, was already printed in detail in the Times Magazine report of the FBI findings.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Hey Dickie,
Posted by: MausMasher on Jun 23, 2005 9:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, just what exactly did they offer you for your retraction?? Anthrax(or some other bio nasty to be sent to your family or self??), Cash(just how much, if so) or a free all expences paid vacation(errr...detention) to the Gulag of your choice(1st three on the dream sheet do not count)??? Do Tell us...PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

If Hitler Were Alive, Guess Whose Side Would He'd Be On?
Posted by: jalowe1957 on Jun 23, 2005 10:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All this brings to mind an essay once written by Gloria Steimen, which drew a parralel between the demise of the Weimar Republic and the rise of Nazism in 1930's Germany and the rise of Reagan conservatism in the 1980's. Thus it should come as no surprise that neocons share many of the same proclivities as the Nazis did, thought they would never admit to this.

Now does this make you wonder at times if those neoconmen they stood side by side along their Christian Right theoconmen cohorts at Sunday morning church services and sang "Springtime for Hitler" straight from their church humnals?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Disappointed with apology, but still support Durbin
Posted by: liberalandproud on Jun 23, 2005 2:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look, the Republicans have a very effective propaganda machine run by Dissemblers with a capital 'D'. They were able to twist Sen. Durbin's words in such a way that soldiers and veterans were offended. And in my view, this is what Sen. Durbin was apologizing for, that some of his words could be interpreted (thanks to the right-wing propagandists) as offensive to the average soldier serving in our military.

I, too, sent Sen. Durbin a note thanking him for his original statement on the Senate floor, and I, too, am disappointed that he apologized. But I take him at his word, and have no doubt whatsoever, that he will continue to speak out against the injustices and illegal acts committed by the Bush administration.

Dick Durbin still deserves our respect for stating, on the record, and in great detail, his objections to, and the illegality of, our government's policies regarding the treatment of detainees.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

JINGOIST
Posted by: jingoist on Jun 23, 2005 2:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
DICK Durbin, darling of Al Jazeera!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Darling Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: JINGOIST Posted by: neilemac

Comments are closed-

Rod from Canada
Posted by: Rod from Canada on Jun 23, 2005 4:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Re Richard Durbin's comments. I will say this about the Nazis. Whatever their failings, I think they certainly demonstrated more culture and refinement in their musical tastes (which included a notable fondness for the classical music of Wagner, for example) compared to that displayed by the sort of sadistic, heathenistic, trailer park trash that would seem to pass for your typical U.S. army recruit these days - who would seem to be addicted to blaring, mindless rock music. And as for leadership, one must give credit where credit is due. Whatever his faults, one must say this about Hitler: the man was certainly no coward. He fought bravely, and with distinction, as a soldier on the Western Front in World War I, exposing himself to mustard gas attacks at one point. That is far more than can be said for George W. Bush and the rest of the cowardly cretins who surround him. Their main acheivement seems to have been to duck military combat and get others to do their fighting for them

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: od from Canada Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: od from Canada Posted by: jingoist
» RE: od from Canada Posted by: TagsNOLA

Comments are closed-

Apodopa is quitting his ruse
Posted by: apodopa on Jun 23, 2005 6:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a bloody joke - satire, apodopa is too. I'm giving it up. But I've seen that there are among us many who rush to judgement. We need to fight the crazy Christians vigorously, not only here, everywhere.
I've spent nearly fifteen years living and working in the South in the underground utilities construction industry. I was a Senior Equipment Sales Engineer with alot of responsibility for a division of a major manucturer based in Perry OK. I'm sort of redneck, as liberal than Che and I'm gay. I had to quit, the racism and bigotry of the South, and the industry I worked in nearly drove me to strike out in violence. It's too long a story to detail but everyperson has a breaking point. I reached mine five years ago when My superior told me Aids was Gods way of ridding the country of fags. It took all of my strength from killing that human being on the spot. You have no idea. I quit several months later and moved to New England. I walked away from alot of money but you know the old saying about money and selling your soul.
Racism and bigotry in the South and Mid-West is much worse than anyone can imagine true. I know many right-wing Christians, rednecks, the Rush Limbaugh kind of people. They are all demonically possessed and it is my opinion that they can't be spoken too. They are like a virus and I hate to be the one to say it, but they must be dealt with somehow. Poeple like Dick Durban are not helping, nor are most Democrats. This country is headed toward civil unrest - there is no other way to get rid of the fascists. IMHO
As to the stuff I posted posing as a right-winger I did it for several reasons, first for a kick then to piss certain people off. So sue me. Alot of people who hated me also have alot to learn but don't lose the anger - it's good to hate fascism, we must destroy it before it gets worse. I'll understadn if y'all are mad at me. But fight on.
Peace to All
apodopa

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

More on Prescott Bush, et al
Posted by: Rosford on Jun 24, 2005 12:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To read more on this multi-generational, war-profiteering family see: http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

It's not all about Hitler
Posted by: hagwind on Jun 25, 2005 5:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I too am sorry that Senator Durbin apologized, but I also know how lonely and scary it is to be way out on a limb with no visible support. I can't help wondering whether and how much his fellow Democrats pressured him to apologize.

This Nazi thing -- yes, the word, along with "fascist," is used too glibly on the left. (I've never forgotten the history professor who opened his lecture on 20th century fascism by asking, "What is a fascist -- other than someone you don't like?" But to pretend that there's _no_ connection between Virtuous Us and Terrible Them is self-delusional. Read Seymour Hersh's or Robert Fisk's reporting from the Middle East. Brush up on your U.S. history, with particular attention to the Salem witch trials, the persecution of the early Mormons, the persecution of workers who tried to organize against Big Capital, the persecution of African Americans after Reconstruction, the Palmer raids after World War I, the round-up of Japanese Americans during World War II, and the heyday of Joe McCarthy. There's a big, broad ugly streak running through our history right from the beginning. To borrow the author's alcoholism/intervention analogy, this is the elephant in our living room. To call attention to its existence is to risk accusations of "anti-Americanism" or "leftist bias."

It's too easy, and dangerous, to act as if Nazism was uniquely German, or as if you can't have Nazism without a Hitler. Hitler in a vacuum or Hitler in a psychiatric institution wouldn't have done much damage. (Unless he was _running_ the psychiatric institution -- a definite possibility.) Hitlers need followers, people who vote for them and agree with them and tolerate their excesses.

The history prof mentioned above had us read a book called _They Thought They Were Free_, about ordinary Germans in the Third Reich. Many, many Germans didn't perceive Hitler's laws as oppressive, at least in the early years, because those laws didn't interfere with their behavior. Many, many USians are lackadaisical about (or actively hostile toward) the Bill of Rights because they've never had a contrary thought and can't imagine ever having one. Whatever else you may think of the Founding Fathers -- they knew better, because they were traitors; "terrorists," even, some of them.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

 
Reverend Billy Talen
 
 
 
Most Read
Most Emailed
Most Discussed
On REDDIT
On DIGG
 
loading ...
POWERED BY DIGG'S USERS