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The Wrong Apology
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WASHINGTON -- Sen. Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.) yesterday offered a tearful apology on the Senate floor for comparing the alleged abuse of prisoners by American troops to techniques used by the Nazis, the Soviets and the Khmer Rouge, as he sought to quell a frenzy of Republican-led criticism...Durbin, the Democratic whip, acknowledged that "more than most people, a senator lives by his words" but that "occasionally words will fail us and occasionally we will fail words." Choking up, he said: "Some may believe that my remarks crossed the line. To them, I extend my heartfelt apologies."Durbin was not wrong. Not wrong in what he said. Not wrong in saying it. And the only person who has crossed the line is George W. Bush -- and we've heard no apologies from him.
Let's review. Durbin, quoting from an FBI memo, described how some detainees at Gitmo were chained naked, hand and foot to a concrete floor and left that way for up to 18 hours a day, where they inevitably urinated and defecated on themselves.
Durbin observed, correctly, that if someone read that account not knowing anything more, they would assume the people doing this to prisoners were Nazis or one of the other despicable regimes of history.Â
Durbin was immediately flamed by the White House and Republicans in Congress. How dare he compare the behavior of US soldiers to that of Nazis?
Okay, let's give the devil his due. The US does not systematically execute prisoners; at least not as a matter of course. We don't perform medical experiments on them. We don't rape them. That's the kind of stuff the Nazis, Soviets and Pol Pot did. We don't do that stuff — yet.
But let me tell you why Durbin was right to make the comparison. And to make my point I am going to use the same argument conservatives use to justify their war on drugs.
If marijuana is a gateway drug, I ask conservatives, what's chaining a person naked to a cement floor and letting them sit in their own waste all day? A taste of torture? A snort of the abuse? Where do you go from there? A few lines of water-boardering? From there it's a short step to electric shock (after all, they're already wet.)
It's the proverbial slippery slope. And we're on it.
Summary of FBI interview of detainee at Guantanamo Bay 08/23/02, Notes: "when NAME REDACTED was turned over to US authorities, he was beaten by the US military forces. He was taken by helicopter to an unknown location where he was beaten. While his eyes were covered, he was kicked in the stomach and back by several individuals. He noted American English accents. After being moved to an unknown facility in Bagram, his head was placed against the cement floor and his head was kicked. As a result of other beatings... REDACTED received a broken shoulder. During one evening REDACTED was left outside of the facility where he was being held. The ground was wet and it was snowing. He was wearing only pants and a ragged shirt. As a result of being out in the cold, he became unconscious. . . . . When he was moved to Kandahar, he was not beaten as frequently and severely... He was dragged three times to interrogations. On one occasion during prayer time, a soldier placed his foot on REDACTED head and sat on his head. REDACTED stated that the soldiers wore tan and brown camouflage uniforms, with US flags on their arms." (More FBI Memos)If you think about all this for a moment with the partisan side of your brain turned off, you can see that all Durbin was trying to do was what any responsible parent of a teen would do after finding meth in their daughter's purse. He was trying to warn that we are playing with fire.
But, instead of listening up, his colleagues got all defensive, ganged up and beat the crap out of him. They kept it up until he agreed to say, "it ain't so."
Well it is so, and Durbin should not have caved. But clearly these patients remain in deep denial and are not quite ready to admit they're becoming hooked on the stuff -- far from it. Nightly now we hear Neo-cons and their supporters on talk shows actually justifying the rough treatment of POWs, treatment that just a generation ago would have had American civilians reaching for the air sickness bag.
But suddenly brutal humiliation of POWs in our care has become "necessary."
I don't quite understand why. Torture wasn't necessary 60 years ago when literally all of Western civilization was threatened by German fascism. Torture wasn't necessary during the Cold War, when the former Soviet Union had both the weapons and inclination to fricassee everyone west of Poland.
But today, when a few thousand certifiably crazy radical Muslims go on a murderous rampage, the fate of the nation suddenly hinges on being able to "rough up" (a.k.a. torture) prisoners. I don't get it. (Could it be that torture has replaced good intelligence-gathering?)
When Durbin made his original remarks, he was, in effect, launching an intervention. Anyone who has ever been involved with a drug or alcohol-dependent person knows the signs, and they are all here.
First they lie: "I don't do it."
Confronted with the evidence, the response becomes, "Okay, but I only tried it a couple of times." Then, when caught again, "What's the big deal? Everyone does it."
Then, when it gets personal, they try to seperate what they do from what they are. "It's just a thing I do. It does not define who I am," and "Just because I do it does not make me a bad person."
Finally, this: "Okay, okay. I do it. But I can stop anytime I want."
Maybe what Durbin should have suggested is a 12-step program for the administration's Neo-cons, to slowly wean them off this self-destructive behavior. The trouble is, from the reaction he got to his remarks, it's clear they are ready for the cure -- they just haven’t hit bottom yet.
The trouble is that if we wait until they do hit bottom, they’ll take the rest of us down with them.
What will it take before someone like Durbin can try again? Will it take an indictment form the World Court, seeking extradition of US officials to join the likes of Serbian butcher Molosevic in The Hague? What will it take before we say, basta! Enough!Â
It's not like the administration doesn't know what it's doing is wrong, and has since the beginning. Trying to hide evidence of a crime is the strongest evidence that a perp knows the difference between right and wrong.Â
Washington, July 2004 -- The federal government's secrecy watchdog has asked the Pentagon to explain why parts of a memo about the interrogation of terror detainees were classified, even though they discussed the political fall-out if the use of certain techniques became public. The memo, declassified and released last month, is the report of a working group on interrogation techniques established in January 2003 by the Defense Department's general counsel. The relevant passage -- marked "secret" ... is part of a discussion of the consequences for criminal and military prosecutions of detainees and others if the public became aware of the use of so-called "coercive interrogation techniques. It reads, "Consideration must be given to the public's reaction to methods of interrogation that may affect the military commission process. The more coercive the method, the greater the likelihood that the method will be met with significant domestic and international resistance."Maybe the answer can be found in the parents of the men and women now serving in the armed forces. A little parental guidance might be needed to balance the gung-ho propaganda they get from their commanders.
Maybe parents might want to read some of the FBI memos that document how some US troops are treating prisoners in Iraq, Afghanistan and Gitmo. Then, let them visualize their lovely son or daughter chaining another human, naked, to a cold cement floor for a day. Imagine their darling daughter watching, even laughing, as the prisoner soils himself, then sits in it. Visualize their child, the fruit of their loins, the A-student, the Homecoming King or Queen, holding a thrashing prisoner's head underwater, repeatedly; their son, the freckle-faced former neighborhood paperboy, mocking and humiliating a terrified naked prisoner.
Then maybe if those moms and dads wrote to their kids and said:
Dearest Son (Daughter,) We hear and see many disturbing things on the news about how some US troops are mistreating the prisoners in their care. Please assure us you are not among the soldiers guilty of such un-American, unholy behavior. Because, it would surely break our hearts if you were.
Love, Mom, Dad (& Sparky!)
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Posted by: sapatatanka on Jun 23, 2005 2:18 AM
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Then they ought to meditate on justice, secular and divine law.
Does anyone not believe that this just might possibly lead to some changes?
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» RE: Do onto others
Posted by: DaftAida
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Posted by: thx1138 on Jun 23, 2005 4:52 AM
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I am so sick and tired of Democrats apologizing for saying what they believe in or for saying something that shows resistance tot he fascits. When will they begin to fight?
I WANT A LEADER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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» RE: Typical Democrat coward
Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: Typical Democrat coward
Posted by: The Heretic
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Posted by: gregmccain on Jun 23, 2005 5:05 AM
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http:// www.thepetitionsite.com /takeaction/ 641648866
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» RE: Petition to support Sen. Durbin's Guantanamo Statement
Posted by: sausage
» RE: Petition to support Sen. Durbin's Guantanamo Statement
Posted by: annadams95340
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Posted by: acaryatid on Jun 23, 2005 5:13 AM
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» RE: The Nazi connection is right on the nose
Posted by: DaftAida
» Sickening
Posted by: brasilaron
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Posted by: jkgoebel on Jun 23, 2005 5:54 AM
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» RE: Culture of Life?
Posted by: Rosford
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Posted by: Pepper on Jun 23, 2005 6:04 AM
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"The US does not systematically execute prisoners; at least not as a matter of course. We don't perform medical experiments on them. We don't rape them. "
This was the authors own words, which tells me the author himself is totally unaware of the extent of the horrors perpetrated by this admin that fits hand in glove with the Nazi way of doing business.
Indeed, we are experimenting on old people, killing soldiers with our medical experiments, and children. Abu Ghrai also had rapes of little children in front of their mothers to make the mothers talk: don't believe me? Ask Seymour Hersh, he saw the videos and was so offended he was unable to talk about it until much later.
Murdering? Yes, indeed we have tortured until they died and those are currently being investigated but alas, I fear that investigation will go by the way of all investigations in this administration. It will simply fade into oblivion.
I emailed Mr. Durbin and told him to maintain his courage in speaking the truth and I am sorry he could not find the courage to stay with it. If he lacks that courage now, it will simply get worse and I fear our leaders lack the moral and intestinal fortitude that will be required of them to withstand what is yet to come. As someone once said, "YOU AIN'T SEEN NOTHIN, YET, BABY"! Because we are doing nothing, we will indeed be like the Germans and we will pay ultimately down the road. Please try to remember 500,000 men, women, old people and children
died in the bombing of dresden and in the aftermath, so we will pay eventually.
No dictatorship survives for very long. I don't care if they do overturn the 22 amendment, there are other ways of ending dictatorships in the end. History tells us that very nicely.
Its not a matter of "if" rather of "when" with this administration. They will get worse before they get better. Try to think of this like "extreme risk sports". The more they get away with all this and the less impact it has on their adrenals, the worse they will get to try for that adrenalin rush that marks the psychopath.
WE are doomed!!!!
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» RE: I didn't even finish reading the article when I came across this....!
Posted by: sapatatanka
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Posted by: neilemac on Jun 23, 2005 6:09 AM
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Posted by: Erin on Jun 23, 2005 6:13 AM
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Posted by: maxpayne on Jun 23, 2005 6:24 AM
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» RE: First Byrd, now Durbin
Posted by: paschn@comcast.net
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Posted by: Pepper on Jun 23, 2005 6:39 AM
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I don't want to hear anymore talk about gun control since now we KNOW why we have a 2nd amendment. Thanks
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Posted by: AdamSelene40 on Jun 23, 2005 6:47 AM
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Specifically:
By the time Prescott Bush's grandson got into office the Nazis had pretty much spoiled murderous racism for everyone. Too far, too fast, to too little purpose and to such a degree it even revolted the iron-stomached Winston Churchill --disgusting The Great Tory moral grounds was as difficult as offending Larry Flynt on sexual ones.
However, Hitler did do one favor for all fascists coming after him ... he set a standard of horror so extreme and so senseless that by comparision everyone else is 'not as bad' which to some minds is 'as good as innocent.' Pol Pot? Political, not racial genocide. Darfur -- thousands, not millions. Rowanda -- inferior technology and organization.
Guantanamo ? Most of the victims survive.
But here's something to contimplate: The goals of the Reaganites and the Fascists are basically the same -- a 'disciplined labor force' serving a robust economy governed by a Party whose apparat is chosen by the Capitalist Elite. The methods are also similar 'whatever is neccessary, whatever works.'
Jews were the designated victims in Europe for about thousand years when the Nazis came along. The Holocaust was the only reward the Reich could offer their working and middle class supporters. Jewish suffering made Germans happy and almost content -- as they were being themselves enslaved and sent to a battlefront holocaust of their own.
With neocons, 'Gays' serve much the same purpose -- but without the expense of building Camps. Homosexuals have been designated victims, if anything, 500 years longer than Jews and are now, along with "Terrorist Suspects" the last unprotected Outsiders. One can no longer wear a nice suit, say "The Blacks are Our Misfortune" and expect to be taken seriously. But "The Fags are our Misfortune" ... that works. It merits a Defense of Marriage Constitutional Amendment -- and it satisfies the hate lust of the American Brown Shirt. And, the genius of Gay as Jew ... you can never run out of Gays.
Come to think of it, Empires never run out of Terrorists either -- vide: "Dagger Men" in Jerusalem circa '01 BCE.
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» RE: Why Bush isn't Hitler
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: Why Bush isn't Hitler
Posted by: royrogers
» RE: Why Bush isn't Hitler
Posted by: yesman
» RE: Why Bush isn't Hitler
Posted by: royrogers
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Jun 23, 2005 7:38 AM
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Talk about sending the wrong message to the enemy! Senator Durbin, what does it say to the bully Repuglicans when Democrats turn into crybabies who won't fight back?
For Republicans, it says: "VICTORY AT LAST!"
For the rest of us, it says: "We're done for."
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» RE: "Tears Shed = Ground Lost"
Posted by: royrogers
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Posted by: thx1138 on Jun 23, 2005 8:04 AM
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312 353 4952
202 224 2152
202 225 2152 (fax)
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» RE: Call Sen. Durbin & request retraction of apology
Posted by: OldRedleg
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Posted by: apodopa on Jun 23, 2005 8:10 AM
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When a Democrat with a backbone comes along make sure to tell him he's got it so he'll know and then he can have it removed to satisfy the rest of the party. hahah
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Posted by: Riverside on Jun 23, 2005 8:32 AM
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I am sorry he apologized and I wonder if more of us had really let him know we supported his statement if he would have held firm.
Remember, all that he said, was already printed in detail in the Times Magazine report of the FBI findings.
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Posted by: MausMasher on Jun 23, 2005 9:56 AM
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Posted by: jalowe1957 on Jun 23, 2005 10:16 AM
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Now does this make you wonder at times if those neoconmen they stood side by side along their Christian Right theoconmen cohorts at Sunday morning church services and sang "Springtime for Hitler" straight from their church humnals?
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» RE: If Hitler Were Alive, Guess Whose Side Would He'd Be On?
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» Easy, he'd be in bed withe Great Cretin himself
Posted by: brasilaron
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Posted by: liberalandproud on Jun 23, 2005 2:51 PM
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I, too, sent Sen. Durbin a note thanking him for his original statement on the Senate floor, and I, too, am disappointed that he apologized. But I take him at his word, and have no doubt whatsoever, that he will continue to speak out against the injustices and illegal acts committed by the Bush administration.
Dick Durbin still deserves our respect for stating, on the record, and in great detail, his objections to, and the illegality of, our government's policies regarding the treatment of detainees.
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» RE: Disappointed with apology, but still support Durbin
Posted by: yesman
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Posted by: jingoist on Jun 23, 2005 2:59 PM
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» Darling
Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: JINGOIST
Posted by: neilemac
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Posted by: Rod from Canada on Jun 23, 2005 4:46 PM
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» RE: od from Canada
Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: od from Canada
Posted by: jingoist
» RE: od from Canada
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» Thankfully, other Canadians are well informed
Posted by: neilemac
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Posted by: apodopa on Jun 23, 2005 6:13 PM
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I've spent nearly fifteen years living and working in the South in the underground utilities construction industry. I was a Senior Equipment Sales Engineer with alot of responsibility for a division of a major manucturer based in Perry OK. I'm sort of redneck, as liberal than Che and I'm gay. I had to quit, the racism and bigotry of the South, and the industry I worked in nearly drove me to strike out in violence. It's too long a story to detail but everyperson has a breaking point. I reached mine five years ago when My superior told me Aids was Gods way of ridding the country of fags. It took all of my strength from killing that human being on the spot. You have no idea. I quit several months later and moved to New England. I walked away from alot of money but you know the old saying about money and selling your soul.
Racism and bigotry in the South and Mid-West is much worse than anyone can imagine true. I know many right-wing Christians, rednecks, the Rush Limbaugh kind of people. They are all demonically possessed and it is my opinion that they can't be spoken too. They are like a virus and I hate to be the one to say it, but they must be dealt with somehow. Poeple like Dick Durban are not helping, nor are most Democrats. This country is headed toward civil unrest - there is no other way to get rid of the fascists. IMHO
As to the stuff I posted posing as a right-winger I did it for several reasons, first for a kick then to piss certain people off. So sue me. Alot of people who hated me also have alot to learn but don't lose the anger - it's good to hate fascism, we must destroy it before it gets worse. I'll understadn if y'all are mad at me. But fight on.
Peace to All
apodopa
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» RE: Apodopa is quitting his ruse
Posted by: LoisC
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Posted by: Rosford on Jun 24, 2005 12:22 PM
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Posted by: hagwind on Jun 25, 2005 5:12 AM
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This Nazi thing -- yes, the word, along with "fascist," is used too glibly on the left. (I've never forgotten the history professor who opened his lecture on 20th century fascism by asking, "What is a fascist -- other than someone you don't like?" But to pretend that there's _no_ connection between Virtuous Us and Terrible Them is self-delusional. Read Seymour Hersh's or Robert Fisk's reporting from the Middle East. Brush up on your U.S. history, with particular attention to the Salem witch trials, the persecution of the early Mormons, the persecution of workers who tried to organize against Big Capital, the persecution of African Americans after Reconstruction, the Palmer raids after World War I, the round-up of Japanese Americans during World War II, and the heyday of Joe McCarthy. There's a big, broad ugly streak running through our history right from the beginning. To borrow the author's alcoholism/intervention analogy, this is the elephant in our living room. To call attention to its existence is to risk accusations of "anti-Americanism" or "leftist bias."
It's too easy, and dangerous, to act as if Nazism was uniquely German, or as if you can't have Nazism without a Hitler. Hitler in a vacuum or Hitler in a psychiatric institution wouldn't have done much damage. (Unless he was _running_ the psychiatric institution -- a definite possibility.) Hitlers need followers, people who vote for them and agree with them and tolerate their excesses.
The history prof mentioned above had us read a book called _They Thought They Were Free_, about ordinary Germans in the Third Reich. Many, many Germans didn't perceive Hitler's laws as oppressive, at least in the early years, because those laws didn't interfere with their behavior. Many, many USians are lackadaisical about (or actively hostile toward) the Bill of Rights because they've never had a contrary thought and can't imagine ever having one. Whatever else you may think of the Founding Fathers -- they knew better, because they were traitors; "terrorists," even, some of them.
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