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How Walter Jones Grew a Conscience

By Jan Frel, AlterNet. Posted June 22, 2005.


After some soul-searching about the war in Iraq, the North Carolina congressman made one of the most staggering political about-faces seen in Washington since George W. Bush took office.
Walter Jones Conscience
Rep. Walter Jones with Marines stationed at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina.
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In the heady atmosphere of war lust and post-9/11 New Patriotism that subsumed Washington in March 2003, GOP House Representative of North Carolina Walter B. Jones made a stand. Jones told the press that he hoped his effort to rename French fries, "Freedom Fries," in the House cafeterias would prompt visitors "to think of the thousands of military members overseas who are there for you, for me, and for the freedom of millions of people they never know personally."

It was the high-water mark in the Campaign to Hate France, a key splinter project of the Let's Get Iraq effort.

Two years later, Rep. Jones told North Carolina's big daily, the Raleigh News & Observer, that he wished the Freedom Fries incident "had never happened" and that Congress "must be told the truth" about the Iraq war.

Soon after, Jones stood with two of the most liberal Democratic representatives in Congress -- Dennis Kucinich and Neil Abercrombie -- and the Republican isolationist and libertarian Ron Paul to introduce legislation calling for the president to announce a withdrawal timetable by the end of this year. In other words, Walter Jones made one of the most staggering about-faces seen in Washington since George W. Bush took office.

What happened?

Mainstream newspapers and cable television's take on Jones' declaration so far has not gone much deeper than a kind of mild bewilderment. The surface-level political analysis on Jones that has made the progressive rounds goes something like this: shrewd, canny Republican realizes that calling for Iraq pullout is means of political survival in upcoming tumultuous 2006 elections, gets headstart against primary challengers. That analysis applies to the new posture Republican Senator Chuck Hagel struck, when he said a few days ago that the United States was "losing" in Iraq. Hagel intends to run for president and wants to distinguish himself from the pack.

But if re-election was the motivating principle behind Walter Jones' change of heart, you'd expect to find that his district -- North Carolina's 3rd -- was a swing district that narrowly went for Bush in November; that it was at the vanguard of dropping public opinion on Iraq; and that the county chairs, party activists and local residents had all been pressuring him to make a stand and call for withdrawal of the troops.

Nothing of the sort.

Jones' district is one of the most militarized in the country, if not the most. Sixty thousand veterans live in the 17 counties that make up his constituency, which on average voted at a mid-60s percentage level for Bush last November. There are three Marine bases that house thousands of active servicemen and their families; about 43,000 military and 5,000 civilians at Camp Lejeune in Onslow County; Cherry Point, the world's largest Marine Corp air station and Craven County's largest employer, which pumps $500 million annually into the economy; and Seymour Johnson Air Force Base which employs around 4,000 military and 500 civilians in Wayne County.

You can't be pro-military spending or patriotic enough for a congressional district like this. So no surprise then, that Walter Jones has a spot on the House Armed Services Committee or that he waded neck-deep in the propaganda effort to go to war in Iraq. Beside his Freedom Fries stunt, Jones has brilliantly shepherded his three garrisons out of Rumsfeld's massive base closure plans, presented to Congress this year.

Until recently, Jones was well-liked and respected by local Republican officials. The Republican county chairs I spoke with in his district told me they were caught flat-footed by his transformation. Steve Tyson, chair of Craven County (home of Cherry Point), told me he thought "it was more surprise than anything else for residents," whose reaction was this made him look "weak" on the military.

Bob Pruett, chair of neighboring Carteret County, and a 25-year veteran of the Marine Corps, said he was overwhelmed by the number of people who called him after Jones made his remarks. He said the general reaction wasn't that Jones called for the withdrawal of troops -- "which all of us of course want as soon as possible" -- but that it "sent the wrong message to the enemy" and worried veterans there might be a return to the Vietnam situation. "Some veterans were incensed," he said.  


Digg!

Jan Frel has worked as an editor for AlterNet and TomPaine.com, and occasionally posts entries on MyDD.

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Owning your mistakes
Posted by: treehuggingliberal on Jun 22, 2005 1:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
George W. could learn a lot from Congressman Jones: You make a mistake, you admit the mistake, then you take steps to remedy the mistake. Unfortunately, our Commander-In-Chief is wrong about what is currently going on in Iraq (the insurgency is weakening, Iraqis are better off, etc); and it should be obvious now that he was wrong about his reasons for sending troops into Iraq. Yeah, Saddam was a bad guy, but there are a lot of bad guys in this world and we aren't invading their country (yet). But I don't see any apologies forthcoming from this Whitehouse. I'm a Noncommisioned Officer in the Army, i.e. a leader of troops, and I can tell you that NO ONE has any respect for a leader that refuses to admit that they have made a mistake and continues to place the soldiers under their command in harms way.

The American people need to DEMAND accountability from this President and his administration.

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» RE: Owning your mistakes Posted by: Armafied
» RE: Owning your mistakes Posted by: nakis
» RE: Owning your mistakes Posted by: turbocrusher
Congratulations for joining reality
Posted by: brasilaron on Jun 22, 2005 3:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While i ridiculed Congressional efforts to rename french fries (hell, we don't even capitalize it anymore) and have abhored the entire War machine, i must congratulate W. Jones. It is manly to admit your mistakes and try to remedy them, it is not manly or macho, as GW seems to think, to be obstinate and refuse any mistakes have ever been made. Hopefully, W. Jones's revelations and actions will resonate with other moderate Repub's and semi-hawkish "Democrats" and allow them to behave more like adults. Eventually, what we need is an impeachment of Bush et al., but for now, a good start is to admit mistakes were made and try to make sense of how we made them. Jones's actions could serve as a beacon for responsible behavior in DC.

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BRAVO REPRESENTATIVE JONES! But who will be next?
Posted by: ssegallmd on Jun 22, 2005 4:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems so obvious to many of us that the Iraqi invasion is a misadventure. We wonder with regard to the nationally visible conservatives who support the president and this campaign, and who disparage dissenters which ones are sincere but myopic, and which ones know better but don't care, that is, disingenuously support the war for personal political or economic gain.

We would like to think that those who disagree with us, although in error, are still patriotic, that in their heart of hearts, they believe what they are saying and that they believe that the Iraqi invasion is good for America and good for the world.

But it seems so obvious to many of us, and has for more than two years, that this was an ill-advised misadventure. So we must wonder which of the nationally audible hawks are cynical liars and even sociopaths. What fraction are sincere and which are knowingly working with disregard for the principles and values that traditional Americans cherish.

Additionally, we wonder if the sincere hawks can ever see the light, and if so, can they muster the personal courage and strength of character to say so publically and forcefully.

I am glad to know that at least one example of this phenomenon has occurred in a US Congressman, one who happens to be on a militarily relevant congressional committee and representing a very militarily relevant district.

I would love to be optimistic here, but I cannot be so and remain honest to myself. I see this as only a small blip in the radar, not the beginning of a larger trend. I fear that this will cost Congressman Jones his political future and in so doing reaffirm the suspicion that other conservatives who would consider taking a similar public stance would have that such a move is tantamount to political suicide.

I hope that I am wrong, but I fear that few of the hawks, especially the most vociferous, have the conscience or the character to both face the Republican smear and hate machine, and the willingness to subsequently and ignominiously suffer a painful and costly political defeat with probable political extinction to follow.

Time will tell. But whatever happens, Representative Jones deserves our praise and our admiration. Although the majority of conservatives march in lockstep as a single pernicious organism like the Borg of Star Trek, some conservatives not surprisingly are good and decent people.

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My Gosh, an anomoly in Congress!
Posted by: Pepper on Jun 22, 2005 4:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A man with a conscience. Does anyone realize how rare that is? I hope his district appreciates that man. Not because he is against the war now, but that he is willing to serve with a conscience and to lead rather than follow the more vocal of his constituents who have not attended those secret meetings.

This will tell us at his next election whether the people who vote will get what they deserve. If they put him back in then they understand the bedrock of democratic electoral voting.
You vote for a man or woman with a conscience, who is concerned not only for the "special interests" of his constituency, but also the well fare of the entire nation. He is finally serving as the founding fathers intended.

Good for him and I hope he wins reelection and the people appreciate what they have (a man of conscience) compared to what is normal in this dry barren wasteland of psycopathy which is prevalent in the White HOuse and Congress/Senate.

I recently discovered (I voted for someone in the opposite party that I am registered in and he won) it doesn't matter which party these people are in. My new congressman has adapted nicely. He is as bad as the one he replaced. How could that be??? The office attracts those with no conscience and a desire for power. He is patronizing, arrogant and talks down to his constituents with no understanding that his paycheck comes from the broken back labor of his constituents, although recently I have reminded him of that.

So, North Carolina, celebrate the rarity you have in your district and treasure him. Thank God there are a few left with COURAGE to raise their voices and their consciences. P

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Tony Tharp
Posted by: tatharp on Jun 22, 2005 5:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wtih all due respect, your comment that the Raleigh paper "broke the story" in May about U.S. Rep. Walter Jones' switch on Iraq just isn't so. Two weeks before the Raleigh paper's story, the weekly Pamlico News in Pamlico County, N.C., had a front-page story on Jones' switch. A week later it had an opinion piece. It wasn't until a week after that when a story appeared in the Raleigh paper.

How can I be sure?

I am the editor of The Pamlico News and wrote our story!
MORE

So, please, the Raleigh paper DID NOT BREAK this story.

By the way, Pamlico County is also in Jones' district.

tony
-----------------------------------
Tony A. Tharp, editor
Coast News / Pirate Island Publications
P.O. Box 1400
Pirate Island, North Carolina USA 28561
MORE

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» RE: Tony Tharp Posted by: MausMasher
» RE: Tony Tharp Posted by: dlf
To suggest...
Posted by: bettsoff on Jun 22, 2005 5:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...that the man had no conscience before he joined 'our' team is the kind of condescending attitude I expect from born-agains. Word choice, attention paid to?

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» RE: To suggest... Posted by: ssegallmd
» Oops! Posted by: ssegallmd
What, a GOPer with a conscience...
Posted by: neilemac on Jun 22, 2005 6:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's heartening to see someone in the GOP with a conscience, or is it political grandstanding, putting distance between himself and the corrupt Bushistas in the White House running the war, ensuring himself a safe berth when the shit finally hits the fan? This action doesn't resolve the situation, however, that thousands of American and coalition service men and women, thousands of innocent Iraqi civilian men, women and children and numerous humanitarians from around the world there to help reconstruct Iraq are being slaughtered and continue to be while the smug faced liar George W and fellow THEOCORPORATISTS (oil & weapons barons) continue to press on with this "never should have happened" now seemingly "never going to end", “lied from the start” farce where he and his cronies are the only winners.

Rise up America and voice your dissent! It finally worked in the 1970’s when hundreds of thousands of war protesters took to the streets in the face of police brutality and bystander ignorance. They refused to back down, and at the peril of being shot by gun-wielding militia (remember Kent state and Neil Young’s “Four Dead in OHIO!”) united voices finally struck the necessary blow against American Foreign policy and the seemingly unending slaughter in Vietnam.

Come to think of it, at the time there was an “I’m not a crook” liar in the White House, too. Getting out of that “What are we fighting for?” War was accomplished, but only after losing thousands upon thousands of conscripted (forced) and volunteer (what were they thinking) able-bodied American soldiers. Yes folks, as many of us predicted when the GOP's Headmaster ignored global protests and blatantly fudged the facts about “weapons of mass-destruction,” America has another dead end War at her door. Come on. Pipe-up, make this administration accountable to get your battered military out of Iraq and bring them home.

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I would hate to be one of those "other " Republicans, right now..
Posted by: keverett on Jun 22, 2005 6:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a Democrat and if I were in Jones' district when he came up for election, I would vote for him. I wondered when men of conscious would start breaking ranks with the current administration. Now, we have another example of what good men are: flawed and prone to mistakes, but unwilling to avoid responsibility for their errors-- and determined to make amends. This is what an American truly is. We're not the monosylabic, nihlist bullies and corporate chameleons that currently reside in most of the seats of power in our country. Will the rest of the Americans, please stand up?

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C.Vojak
Posted by: vojak on Jun 22, 2005 6:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Good story, but my guess is that Jones HAD a conscience long before the Iraq war. He just believed all of the rhetoric and "intelligence". We do our cause an injustice when we dehumanize the other side and lump them all together as conscience-less liars.

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» THANK YOU Posted by: ssegallmd
Finally an honest politician?
Posted by: packofwolves on Jun 22, 2005 6:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Congratulations! It's time we had someone up there in la-la land take an honest look at what this miserable illegal and immoral war is costing us. We aren't spreading freedom, we are spreading death and destruction by an administration that is psychotic with power. Bush and his cronies need to be tried as the war criminals they are. Thank you Jones for standing up for what is right. TURN YOUR BACK ON BUSH.

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From Congressman Jones' official Web site
Posted by: sausage on Jun 22, 2005 6:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Despite what some media accounts have said, I want to make it crystal clear that I am NOT in favor of any immediate withdrawal nor do I support setting an end date at which time all troops must be out of Iraq(emphasis added).

What I do support is a public discussion of our goals and the future of our military involvement in that country. The resolution I am co-sponsoring will do no more than call on the President to set a plan and a date to begin reducing the number of troops we have in Iraq. It does not in any way, shape or form set a date certain for complete withdrawal. This approach should give the President the flexibility he needs to reduce our presence in a way that protects U.S. troops and allows Iraqis to pick up the fight. No one is talking about “cutting and running.”

...Clearly, we are giving Iraqis every reasonable chance for a democracy, but at some time in the near future, the ultimate fate of Iraq will, and should, rest in the hands of the Iraqis. We will continue to support them in their efforts, but we cannot forever be depended upon as the primary defense force in Iraq...
JONES STATEMENT ON IRAQ RESOLUTION

Has Congressman Jones suddenly found his "conscience?" It looks like a justification for a protracted, perhaps indefinite, "withdrawal" much like Nixon's in Vietnam. I sincerely hope Congressman Kucinich re-thinks co-sponsoring this non-timetable, non-withdrawal resolution.

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Second most brave Republican congressman to down this Iraq War
Posted by: maxpayne on Jun 22, 2005 6:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I remember the first being that Nebraska congressman last year who retired as a result of regretting his decision to give Bush the authority to go to war. I'll see what I can do to get the bastard Congress men and women in my state to do the same. If everyone in their state can do the same, we'll all win against Bush the Hitlerite !

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The Free Congressman With A Human Heart
Posted by: rolf on Jun 22, 2005 7:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This poem by Denise Levertov of some years is revealing. The Earth Needs Healing


Prisoners


Though the road turn at last
to death's ordinary door,
and we knock there, ready
to enter and it opens
easily for us,
yet
all the long journey
we shall have gone in chains,
fed on knowledge-apples
acrid and riddled with grubs.

We taste other food that life,
like a charitable farm- girl,
holds out to us as we pass-
but our mouths are puckered,
a taint of ash on the tongue.

It's not joy that we've lost-
wildfire, it flares
in dark or shine as it will.
What's gone
is common happiness,
plain bread we could eat
with the old apple of knowledge.

That old one- it griped us sometimes,
but it was firm, tart,
sometimes delectable...

The ashen apple of these days
grew from poisoned soil. We are prisoners
and must eat
our ration. All the long road
in chains, even if, after all,
we come to
death's ordinary door, with time
smiling its ordinary
long-ago smile.


By Denise Levertov published 1990 in C. A. P.

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An honest republican - amazing
Posted by: nanobubble on Jun 22, 2005 7:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"If doing what's right means I don't return to Congress, then it's God's will." --Walter Jones

That is one of the most honest things I've heard a Republican say since I've been alive. And it is the most honorable thing any Republican has done since Bush stole the presidency in 2000 and launched an illegal war of lies and manipulation.

And the reaction of the whitewashed patriots of fear is not surprising:
-------------
they felt on the whole that his judgment was "misguided and premature."

he thought "it was more surprise than anything else for residents," whose reaction was this made him look "weak" on the military.

the local reaction of Republican officials and area residents was more about supporting the president in a time of war.
---------------

Amazing how someone could be considered weak on the military for not supporting a record trillion-dollar spending and illegal occupation of lies for corporate profit and partisan dictatorship control over America. It's hard to think of any other term than "jingoism"

The president should not be supported in a time of such treason, and it is clear that Walter Jones is coming around to the notion of reality.

-----------------
Walter Jones' office right now told me that Jones changed his mind about Iraq after some "difficult soul searching," and that the "growing gap" between the truth about Iraq.

closed-door sessions he attends with generals and intelligence experts telling him every single thing is going wrong.
-----------------

There's no growing gap - there's a planetary canyon. Bush and his warmonger scumbags need to go back to the pits of hades where they clawed out from. They have no soul or legal standing to be in office while they send Americans to murder and die for their own agenda and war crimes.

God bless the fallen, stabbed from behind, and shrouded in downing street cover-up.

Thank you, Mr. Jones.

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More on Jones and Iraq war
Posted by: dearkitty on Jun 22, 2005 7:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
See here.

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"War is good for my economy"
Posted by: ScottP on Jun 22, 2005 8:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actually the robber barons say "war is good for the economy", but they define a "good economy" as one in which they profit. So look at Exxon's profits, the war has been great for them. Look at the defense contractors, war has been great for them. Look at taxes on the richest, the war greased the wheels for their tax cuts, war has been great for them. To them it doesn't matter if we lose the war, they'll cry about it all the way to the bank.

It's great that Jones made the first step. I hope he follows me on the subsequent steps and rejects looting the national forests, exporting jobs, corporate corruption, and the other tired tricks the robber barons are using to drive America back towards the guilded age of 1900.

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» RE: "War is good for my economy" Posted by: churchofone
Rep. Jones
Posted by: wannabersc on Jun 22, 2005 8:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I feel for this man. Voted for Bush in 2000, have regreted it since.

These last few years have taught us all that NO political party has a monopoly on the truth (they all are equally capable of lies & deceit), that none of the Media give a d--n about information sharing with America (it's job). Cynics have little in the way of reason to modify their thought processes.

Enough with the whinning. It's time to take this Country back. It's time to drop what we are doing, no matter it be Family, work, school, what ever.

March on Washington.

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"We're Big People – We Can Handle It."
Posted by: monkeywrench on Jun 22, 2005 9:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is an inaccurate cliche for some of Walter Jones' constituents to say that to be against the Iraq war is to not support the troops. Soldiers know the difference between a just and an unjust war, the same as they know the difference between killing a combatant and killing a civilian. True support for our soldiers in any war in which we engage, is to make sure that that war is justified by national defense. Many, if not most, of the soldiers in Iraq are rapidly coming to their own conclusions about this war –– and they are the same conclusions as that of Walter Jones. His constituents need to catch up.

And as for that other cliche that he's "sending the wrong message to the enemy"? For over two years now, we've been sending our message to the WRONG ENEMY, in our supposed "war on terror."

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American government theater from generation to generation
Posted by: rolf on Jun 22, 2005 11:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have posted this before at another site though it applys here also it seems to me.
Enjoy!
Written by Britian's imperial poet Rudyard Kipling, The White Man's Burden,1899
was a response to the American take over of the Phillipines after The Spanish-American War.


The White Man's Burden


Take up the White Man's burden-
Send forth the best ye breed-
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild,
Your new-caught, sullen peoples,
Half-devil and half child.

Take up the White Man's burden-
On patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain
To seek another's profit,
and work another's gain.

Take up the white Man's burden-
To savage wars of peace-
Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for other's sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden-
No tawdry rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper-
The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread,
Go mark them with your living,
And mark them with your dead.

Take up the White Man's burden-
And reap his old reward:
The blame of those ye better,
The hate of those ye guard-
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light:-
"Why brought he us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"

Take up the White Man's burden-
Ye dare not stoop to less-
Nor call too loud on Freedom
To cloke your weariness;
By all ye cry or whisper,
By all ye leave or do,
The silent, sullen peoples
Shall weigh your gods and you.

Take up the White Man's burden-
Have done with childish days-
The lightly proferred laurel,
The easy, ungrudged praise.
Comes now, to search your manhood
Through all the thankless years
Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom,
The judgment of your peers!



By Rudyard Kipling from Modern History

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White Man's Burden?
Posted by: heliana on Jun 22, 2005 11:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our military owes much if its strenght (and numbers) to Blacks and Latinos. Sorry to break it to you, but the white man's burden have shifted in recent years.

As far as the "sullen natives" who are childish etc etc, that's a rather crappy statement that smacks of superiority and prejudice.

There's a difference between Kipling and you. He wrote that a long time ago, and you're citing it now.

Shame on you!

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» RE: White Man's Burden? Posted by: nakis
» RE: White Man's Burden? Posted by: pjrsullivan
» RE: White Man's Burden? Posted by: rolf
Walter Jones - a good man in a bad place
Posted by: holojojo on Jun 22, 2005 1:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My sympathies and respect to Walter Jones. Honest politicians are in such short supply that the term is almost an oxymoron, and I feel that Mr. Jones is a credit to the democratic system which produced him. It takes great courage to admit that one is wrong, far more so to criticise and (ultimately) defy the leader of one's Party. There is, sadly, very little reward for honesty and adherence to personal conviction amongst politicians on either side of the Atlantic. Here in the UK we have George Galloway; in the US, you have Walter Jones. We should treasure them whilst we can; I doubt that either of them will last long in the current "for us or against us" climate of politics in both our countries.

holojojo

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RIGHT ON TARGET, ALMOST
Posted by: SALLY EVANS on Jun 22, 2005 3:25 PM   
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SO WE FINALLY HAVE A REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN WHO HAS A CONSCIENCE! IT SEEMS REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN PLAYING DUMB SUPPORTING BUSH. IT WAS THE P.N.A.C. WHO PLANNED THE INVASION OF IRAQ BACK IN 1996 SO BUSH LIED ABOUT EVERYTHING ELSE. THE BUSH REGIME KNEW EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE DOING AND WERE GUNG-HO TO GO TO WAR. THEY THOUGHT NOTHING OF USING "SHOCK AND AWE"(SLAUGHTER) ON THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT IRAQIS. NOW MORE THEN 1700 OF OUR TROOPS ARE DEAD AND THOUSANDS MAIMED. DON'T TELL ME THEY DIDN'T KNOW THE FACTS; IF I KNEW IT , THEY DID TOO. BUT THI IS ONLY THE BEGINNING, GO TO 911Truth.org

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for those with a conscience. . .
Posted by: lb on Jun 22, 2005 6:01 PM   
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We should empathize with our military and their families for their sacrifice and loss. But let's not forget the innocent Iraqis who have sacrificed and suffered because of this illegal invasion, and in far greater numbers than Americans. Those more than 100,000 victims deserve compassion as well.

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Too soon to congratulate
Posted by: rnagisetty on Jun 22, 2005 8:10 PM   
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Let us wait a while before we begin slobbering all over
Mr. Jones. As some body pointed out. all he is asking is a
discussion of the situation, it is nothing and he won't get that from W. So hold back the applause.

See what Dick Durban did. Apologized for speaking the absolute truth. I don't know whether to cry or laugh.

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» RE: Too soon to congratulate Posted by: WhatNow?
Traditional support of wartime presidents: NEEDS SOME THOUGHT
Posted by: Monde on Jun 22, 2005 8:55 PM   
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A tradition is only worthy of remaining a tradition if it produces positive results and maintains integrity. Support for "a wartime president" on that basis and only that basis is massively lacking in intelligence. Shall we support an Adolf Hitler, or any other corporatist dictator who is barely wearing that time-tested fooler of masses called the "democratic-sheep's-clothing"? Just because a president is in office during a war does not call for instant support: quite the opposite, I'd say, and furthermore SUCH the opposite that I daresay it ought to be a new tradition to be even more wary of the executive branch/commander-in-chief if presiding DURING a war, ESPECIALLY one that a president aided and abetted the start of, and the continuing involvement in. We must ask: Is this presidency gaining from this war, while the country loses, and the nation being attacked loses even more? Whose decision is this, to provide oversight? Congress is, for the most part, asleep at the wheel, or sleeping-powdered, or threatened into stepfordized submission, or took the Apathy Pill, or any number of crazy, absolutely ridiculous seeming notions of why they sit there and nod their heads on cue when it comes to passing the war budget. Why can't they vote to stop this war now that we know it is a fake, beyond all shadow of a possible doubt? Do we have to call the UN and have the UN lean on the corporatist coupsters who chewed up democracy and spit it into the polluted toxic dump behind the monster-making factory?

Or worse...is it going to be up to us?

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How to end the war in 60 days
Posted by: mom'z the word on Jun 23, 2005 12:30 AM   
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The nation's frustration and growing anguish over the war in Vietnam finally moved Congress to pass the War Powers Resolution of 1973. The act is designed to place close limits on the President's war -making powers. President Nixon vetoed the measure, calling it "both unconstitutional and dangerous to the best interest of our nation." Congress overrode the veto. The resolution's central provisions require that:

--Within 48 hours after committing American forces to combat abroad, the President MUST report to Congress, detailing the circumstances and the scope of his actions.

--That combat commitment must end within 60 days, unless Congress authorizes a longer period. That 60-day deadline may be extended for as much as 30 days, however, to allow for the safe withdrawal of the American forces involved.

--Congress may bring an end to the combat commitment at any time, by passing a concurrent resolution to that effect.

The constitutionality of the War Powers Resolution remains in dispute. A determination of the question must await a situation in which Congress demands that its provisions be obeyed but the President refuses to do so.

I believe that the "War in Iraq" is that very situation and this is the precise moment to make the determination. Time is of the essence. Congress could act on this tomorrow. As it stands Congress only needs to demand the President jusify the war. His justification is well documented. He believed and lead us to believe Iraqi terrorist were responsible for the attack on the twin towers, Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, Iraq was building a nuclear bomb. All justifications have proven to be false. All that remains to end the war is for Congress to make a concurrent resolution to that fact and the war is over and our troops come home.

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» RE: How to end the war in 60 days Posted by: Captainmagic
Congressman Jones could've avoided all of this by................
Posted by: joeyman9 on Jun 23, 2005 2:27 AM   
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.............sticking to the Procedures for going to war outlined in the Constitution.

Recently I saw an article on this Congressman where he said he votes his conscience first, his constituents wishes 2nd. That is the wrong position for any politician to take. It is at best Non-Constitutional. A person voting under that model doesn't even take into consideration the limitations The Constitution imposes on Congressional Powers.

If this guy Jones had been smart enough to read the instructions and guidance (the law actually) provided by The Constitution he would've refused to support the efforts of
this executive to goad this congress into not opposing his war efforts. He would have said, "Mr. President if you want war, we must pass a resolution declaring war."

But, like most the pols on BOTH SIDES of the the isle this guy choose the squishy middle and, without any constitutional authority, handed the congressional power to effectively declare war over to the president and let him prosecute war at his own discretion.

The founders warned of the tendency of the executive to prosecute wars for his own agrandizement. That is why they insisted the power to declare war lie with the people's representatives and not with the executive.

Had you followed The Constitution Mr. Jones, and let that and not your conscience or the desires of your constituents that exceed constitutional perogatives guide you, you would've never performed those earlier war supporting acts you now regret.

As as they say down at the Blue Room, read'em and weep.

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KEEP UP WITH JONES’, REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE WALTER B. JONES ©
Posted by: Betsy L. Angert on Jun 23, 2005 1:35 PM   
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Dear Jan Frel . . .

I thank you for writing this article; it is quite an interesting tale. I too was inspired by Congressman Jones change of heart. I also felt compelled to understand; I wanted to know what caused this transformation.

As you did, I researched and wrote a missive on this discussion. I only wish that I had the opportunity to speak with a staffer. How fun and fascinating that must have been!

I invite you to read and reflect upon my treatise. Please share your thoughts.
KEEP UP WITH JONES’, REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE WALTER B. JONES ©

Betsy L. Angert Be-Think

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Bring Them Back ~~ Never Should Have had to GO!
Posted by: dickgayley on Jun 24, 2005 7:11 AM   
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I would have sent each of the four Congressmen including Walter Jones, the following letter, but they each restricted email to people from their state. They haven't realized yet that they represent all the sane people in the world. Dick
(had to cut it really really short)
Thank you for being so courageous in our fight to bring our troops back from Iraq. I as an individual citizen (not yet a subject) of this great Republic have only to see the total hideous state of our Union and call to your attention once again how it is still happening. Is it enough to stop the Bush gang, led by Cheney under the direction of his wife and George Shultz, or must the Congress find bipartisan ways to stop Cheney? It may will come to that because these Bush crazies will not give up. They want world domination for their band of bankers and financial looters, through more wars.
Yes, this Bush Machine should positively be neutralized so the United States of America can be restored to its rightful place among nations, and in the process, its manufacturing, tooling, and transportation facilities be repaired while providing jobs.
The Bush machine is harmful to America ~~
1. Dismantling the Country's productive base.
2. Disarming the Military.
3. Violating the Constitution of the United States.
4. Implementing ways to financially loot the Nation.
5. Planning and implementing overthrows and wars with such as Iran, North Korea, Lebanon, Sudan, and even bigger nations.

Look at the Rumsfeld strategy for base closings and restructurings. It is designed to put lots of taxpayers' dollars
into the pockets of Bechtel.
Every Representative in Congress knows to "support and
defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic". Bipartisanship is required simply to save America from the insane actions of the Bush machine.
This Bush machine is working from a script similar to Hitler's (who was put in power by the British, with assistance from a few self-serving American families, one being the Bush family).
To my readers a note ~~~ even most Senators allow up to 10,000 figures per letter. This outfit allows only 2500.

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Thank you Congressman
Posted by: ThumperZ1 on Jun 25, 2005 6:16 AM   
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Now if only more Congressmen would make a stand against the war. Setting a timetable to end the war is a good thing. I don't see it aiding the enemy. That makes as much sense as if you vote your concience and support a 3rd party candidate, you are throwing your vote away. Following our concience is what we are supposed to do. Concience is a good thing.

From Steppenwolf's "Monster" 1970
Now we are fighting a war over there,
no matter who wins, we can't pay the cost.

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Jones is still a Dominionist Nut!!
Posted by: soulfulnotes on Jun 26, 2005 6:12 PM   
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I'm glad to se that Jones has seen the light on Iraq, but he still needs to see the light on quite a few other things. For one, he would like to see legislation allowing churches to keep their tax exempt status while being able to endorse parties and politicians from the pulpit. He's dangerous. Check out the current issue of Rolling Stone and the article about the dominionist evangelicals by Bob Moser.

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PURE MURDER
Posted by: clenair on Jun 28, 2005 6:17 AM   
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The United States was never theatened by Iraq, we were never hurt in any way by Iraq. The United States does not kill people unless our Country is deeply threatened. That makes this war pure murder of some 100,000 of Iraqs inocent people and 1700 very good Americans.

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