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Bicoastal Debate: New York or San Francisco?

By Monica Mehta, San Francisco Chronicle. Posted May 28, 2005.


Few cities generate as much heated comparison as New York and San Francisco. They're intrinsically bonded. When a rash turns others red, these two will undoubtedly stay blue.

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"It's so sleepy here -- like a big 'burb. New York's the only city worth living in."

"Manhattanites! Can't you survive off a 23-square-mile island? At least there's some peace and quiet here."

"Too much. In San Francisco, you can't get a decent meal after 10 p.m."

"Yeah, but how lame is your food? You've got the avocados from hell."

"Avocados, shmavocados. Gimme a slice of Ray's any day. And what's up with bagels with no holes?"

"News flash, dude: San Francisco isn't a colonial outpost of New York."

"Yeah, well, everyone here walks like a 90-year-old. Try going to Third and Market on a Monday morning. Slackers all. It's time to work, people."

"Time to chill out's more like it. I spent Saturday on a cliffside trail above the Pacific Ocean. Now that's life."

"Sounds a little far from civilization to me -- 2,913 miles to be exact. "

Few cities generate as much heated comparison as New York and San Francisco. They're intrinsically bonded. When the rest of the country relies on cars to get around, their inhabitants walk. When a rash turns others red, these two will undoubtedly stay blue.

But we, the outsiders in love with both, will always have to choose between them. Should we pick the bon vivant boyfriend, the one who keeps us up all night with his brash stories and neurotic energy? Or the thoughtful girlfriend who awes us with her beauty, kindness and knack for cooking with arugula and cardoons? 212 or 415?

In the last seven years, I've moved from New York, to San Francisco, to New York, to San Francisco. My husband grew up in the Bay Area; I, in New York. As soon as we were in one place, we started fantasizing about the other.

The thing is, we kept thinking the city we ended up in would define who we were. We were wrong.

When I first moved to San Francisco in 1998, a recent graduate of a top college, I wanted to be "the best," whatever that was. The dot-com boom was reaching sonic levels, and young Bay Area types sat in front of computer screens, creating "content" and muttering about "cross-branding." I was ready to construct the best Web site, be the best online editor in the valley.

Being a New Yorker, I naturally sped through my first Bay Area stint, at one point commuting more than two hours a day. But it wasn't enough. The "best" should be at the center of things, I thought, not out at the edge of the serene Pacific. How exciting it would be to join a magazine, to be back where there was a publishing opportunity around every corner. So off we went.

Pretty soon, I was living the quintessential New York life. An apartment near Gramercy Park. A position with a major entertainment magazine. On my way to making good money.

My husband, a medical resident, was guaranteed a future job. New York is like a drug: Parties, friends, family, movies, theater, lectures, museums. The whirl. I had made it in the city of cities.

On paper, everything was great, but something was missing.

One day, I happened upon a commencement speech by Anna Quindlen, a graduate of my New York college: "You cannot be really first rate at your work if your work is all you are," she said. "Get a life. A real life, not a manic pursuit of the next promotion, the bigger paycheck, the larger house. Do you think you'd care so very much about those things if you blew an aneurysm one afternoon or found a lump in your breast? Get a life in which you notice the smell of salt water pushing itself on a breeze over Seaside Heights, a life in which you stop and watch how a red-tailed hawk circles over the water or the way a baby scowls with concentration when she tries to pick up a Cheerio with her thumb and first finger."

I started thinking about hawks and where I was more likely to find them. When I took trips out to the Bay Area -- I couldn't help myself; if New York was like cocaine, San Francisco was LSD -- I would grow quiet. I'd drive up the Marin Headlands to watch barges sweep lazily under the Golden Gate Bridge out to the never-ending expanse of ocean. I'd walk the gentle city, climbing hills I couldn't see beyond and marveling at the two-bedroom apartment I could rent for the price of a studio in New York. I felt in my blood a sense of hope, of unlimited opportunities, the freedom from tradition that has always been the essence of the city.

Maybe there I could stop earning a regular paycheck, start writing for myself, go back to school, while my husband pursued his dream in research.

So off we went again, trailed by a cacophony of phone calls telling us, "You'll drop off the face of the Earth."

In a way, we wanted to.

It's something San Francisco has always offered. It's a place of refuge, where people can leave their histories behind and reinvent themselves. You could work in the West and ask big questions, too. Like, who are we at heart? How do we want to be talked about after we die?

I love reading obits. The best are like an exclamation point at the end of a sentence. Recently, I came across two very different notices -- one in the New York Times, one in The Chronicle. Guess which was which?

Robert Smith, born in 1943, was described as having "descended from three generations of ... ice cream makers." What followed was a long litany of his career achievements, which included buying and selling various ice-cream companies. I also learned that he was "the consummate entrepreneur" and "a passionate and tireless worker," but nothing of what made him tick aside from his career, of what he did when he went home from all that entrepreneuring.

On the other hand, I barely knew anything about Edward Schellpeper's career except that he had fought in World War II and worked in the bedding industry. But in his 86 years, his obit said, he "led a simple and happy life. He walked daily, visiting with his neighbors and friends. He loved sitting in his sunny garden with his beloved cats. 'Life is just a bowl,' he used to say. 'Bring your own cherries.' "

You know in which cities they lived and died. Had they ever met, one could imagine Bob and Ed having a version of the conversation that began this piece.

But perhaps the best thing about these two cities is that just when you think you've defined them, they turn around and surprise you. What I think I now realize is this: It's not about constantly comparing. It's about finding what makes your heart soar right where you are.

Is it the flowers in mid-March bursting through that patch of soil just down the street or the crowded entrance to a club filling the air with energy? You can find flowers in New York and -- despite what Manhattanites think -- crowded clubs in San Francisco. You just have to look.

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Monica Mehta is an associate editor at AlterNet. At the moment, she lives in San Francisco. This column was first printed in the San Francisco Chronicle.

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View:
SF sucks!
Posted by: Peasant on May 28, 2005 9:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
SF is probably the worst city in the world. Hopefully, I will never have to set foot in that misery hole ever again.

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Re: SF Sucks !
Posted by: maxpayne on May 28, 2005 9:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe, but it's better than living in a fascist world. I'm from Virginia Beach and it's no better than SF but we're fighting back the corporatists even if Pat Robertson and his Republican cronies try to stop us !

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And another thing
Posted by: maxpayne on May 28, 2005 9:54 AM   
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SF and NYC may be overcrowded but like I said, many of us even in the most conservative areas of this country are join the Howard Dean forces and finding ways to fight back the rightwing fascists. Hang in there. SF and NYC don't have to be the only open-minded blue areas. Turning red areas blue is no easy task. But thanks to Howard Dean, we're working on it first from the local levels before going national and like Charles Bronson, we're gonna nail these rightwing crooks down one after another !

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» RE: And another thing Posted by: charlief
Laid Back SF Woman
Posted by: infodiva on May 28, 2005 1:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
NYC is nice to visit but I love my home city. I am a native.

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Who Cares?
Posted by: Campesino on May 28, 2005 2:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WHO CARES?

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» RE: Who Cares? Posted by: brasilaron
Lived in SF and Long Island
Posted by: dlf on May 29, 2005 4:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I recall SF when strangers would come up and ask if you had a place to sleep (crash). They cared for each other and the world. Today I go there and want to puke, homeless lined up and down Market St., and an impossible high cost of living index. When I left the highest median range income family was two homosexuals, usually professional, without children. I don't begrudge people for being gay, but I do begrudge what I saw as people riding the coattails of the Civil Rights Movement while displacing San Francisco's blacks. I left when I saw the hypocriscy of the gay rights movement.

NY is no better it is one of the most racist cities I've ever been too. Every group has a section they live in and some had better not go to others. I was there when the Italians chased the 3 blacks for being in their neighborhood, killing them. I was there during the Crown Heights riots. Caused by a Jewish caravan that killed 2 black children. The first ambulance on the scene was a Jewish company they left the kids I believe one was still alive but, they took the driver who hit them.

No neither of these cities has much to offer in the way of humanity. Just being blue isn't good enough for me.

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» RE: Lived in SF and Long Island Posted by: jakespeed99
This is why the red states hate us
Posted by: Vay-ber on May 29, 2005 7:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
New York versus San Francisco? Who really cares? If you want to know why the red staters hate us, read this from their point of view. You have a person complaining about a life of switching between two world class cities with a choice to either earn gobs of money or actually do want you want to do with your life. Heads up: most Americans don't have this choice, and all this article does is confirm stereotypes of liberals as snobby elites. How about this for an article: Altoona or Flint?

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Who Cares Part II
Posted by: triskela on May 30, 2005 1:18 AM   
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Another appalling fluff piece brought to you by zzzzzzzzzz..............................

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» RE: Who Cares Part II Posted by: Campesino
It's been a long time since NYC was cool
Posted by: lamar on May 30, 2005 7:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
New York may have been cool sometime in the past, before the invasion of the trust fund babies and Burberry scarf idiots. NYC used to be about authenticity and substance, and now its the same neon & glitz as everywhere. At least in San Francisco there is some georgous nature. Still, that place is known for its trust fund fakeness.

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Why I'm Gonna Stay In Flyover Country
Posted by: davelwhite on May 30, 2005 12:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is interesting in one respect: the proud leftist who wrote it probably opines on standard Leftist Beliefs such as the Importance of Building Community, Affordable Housing, Acting Locally / Thinking Globally, etc., but the desire to be "the best" (whatever that means) and move back and forth from one "first class" area to another basically contradicts all of those things. We leftists understand that you can't take possessions with you when you die, but unfortuantely we haven't figured out yet (apparently) that you can't take community with you on the next cross-country redeye.

There's nothing wrong with San Francisco or New York. I love San Francisco when I visit one of my close friends there each year. My problem with the article is not the places in question, but the moving-back-and-forth, "being the best" aspect.

I see it as sort of the leftist middle-class version of conspicious consumption. Many of us know lefties who eschew big houses and SUV's, but are going back for their second or third grad-school degree, moving back and forth from one "first class" city to another, traveling all over the world, and are "too busy" for their friends because of all this ambitious going back and forth.

How are we supposed to build community, share resources, "act locally," organize workplaces, or any of those things we go on about, with people who eye faraway neighborhoods the way a conservative might eye a new Beamer? With people who you just know are going to walk out on a community project or a friendship halfway through when they find something "better"?

There is nothing "anti-freedom" about adults putting down roots, making commitments to friends and neighborhoods and organizations for the long haul. On the contrary, if we want to build a more just society, we have to start with personal relationships-- to friends and to places-- that are built to last.

dave
minneapolis, mn

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blah blah blah......
Posted by: jiveturkey on May 30, 2005 8:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Between these two great cities lies America.

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Los Angeles is the Better Comparison
Posted by: xskye on May 30, 2005 8:58 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am an Angeleno and we consider SF as some northern liberal expensive rent high tech place where Lucas plays around.

Los Angeles is awesome compared to NY ( and I grew up in Wetchester County).

Ask Judith Regan of Regan Publishing( considered by many as the #1 publishing company) why she is leaving the 'mecca' of publishing (NY) to come to Sunny Southern California.

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smug fluff
Posted by: Riverman on May 31, 2005 3:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sorry, but this is the sort of self-indulgent lifestyle liberalism I come to Alternet to get away from after wading through too much whining about nannies and lost loves at Salon. Since when does barely veiled boasting and status-conscious preening qualify for a place of prominence on such a progressive site? A few of the more insufferable examples:

"When I first moved to San Francisco in 1998, a recent graduate of a top college, I wanted to be "the best..."

"An apartment near Gramercy Park. A position with a major entertainment magazine. On my way to making good money."

"My husband, a medical resident, was guaranteed a future job."

Such modesty! It soon becomes transparently clear that the writer's own obsessions with status, particularly this insatiable drive to be the best person in the best place, are driving her relentless comparisons, analyses, dissatisfactions, and migrations from coast to coast. If there's a bright spot in this piece, it's her realization that "It's not about constantly comparing. It's about finding what makes your heart soar right where you are." But it sure takes her long enough to get there.

As for the SF vs. NY debate, I couldn't care less. I live in Oakland.

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The difference between NYC and SF
Posted by: jpsf99 on Jun 8, 2005 5:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are many great cities in the US. NYC and SF are near the top in many categories. The fact of the matter is that NYC is for people who want to live in a world-class big city, such as London, Paris or Tokyo, and who want to live in a city where everything is at their fingertips and who want to live their life to the fullest in a very urban setting. SF is more like Boston than NY in that it is a small big city. SF is for people who want to live a slower pace of life, who want to live in a big city but don't want the big city pace, and they have a choice whether they want a very urban existence or can live near nature or in a suburban type enviroment. Regardless, NY has the best theater, best and/or most restaurants, shopping, nightlife, subways, street life, energy, excitement, vibrancy, directness, honesty, fashion, publishing, financial industry, neighborhoods, diversity... In the 2004 Olympics there were 202 countries - 199 of which are represented in NYC public schools.

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L.A. no comparison to NY or SF
Posted by: Mariam on Jun 15, 2005 4:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I grew up in LA, lived in NYC for 3 years and now live in SF. I can tell you that in almost every aspect SF is more similiar to NY than LA is. SF and NY attract similiar straight forward people and are both in a centralized location were people walk from neighborhood to neighborhood. LA is a sprawling suberb with a VERY different culture. People in NY always want to move to SF, I rarely ever heard of someone looking to move to LA unless they were trying to be an actor.

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