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Monkey Trial or Kangaroo Court?

By Stan Cox, AlterNet. Posted May 19, 2005.


In three days of testimony in Kansas, witnesses painted a picture of evolutionary biology as a tyrannical discipline that can be salvaged only by admitting the bright light of the supernatural.
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The hours passed, and the chilling phrases kept on coming: "security police," "fear and tension," "significant personal sanctions," "enforcement of the Rule," "suppression of evidence," "conflict of conscience," "trampling on those who believe man is purposed."

The man on the stage might well have been talking about life in a totalitarian state, but John Calvert, a lawyer who directs the Intelligent Design Network of Shawnee Mission, Kan., was describing the state of science education in America.

For three days in May, in a cramped auditorium across the street from the Kansas Capitol building, Calvert and his 22 witnesses -- scientists, philosophers, teachers, and other scholars -- painted a picture of evolutionary biology as a tyrannical, "naturalistic" discipline that can be salvaged only by letting the bright light of the supernatural shine in.

Witness Nancy Bryson told the story of how she lost her position as head of the Department of Science and Mathematics at Mississippi University for Women after she spoke out against evolution in 2003. After that, she said, other faculty members would slip into her office after hours to talk with her about the situation, saying that it was "not safe" to talk openly.

California high school teacher Roger DeHart testified that administrators reassigned him from biology to earth science because he had been telling students about what he called the "misrepresentation" of evolution as an explanation for life. When the controversy eventually forced DeHart to move to a different school, he was warned by one of his new colleagues, "I'll be keeping an eye on you." 

When parents complained that her by-the-book teaching of evolution showed "humanistic bias" and asked her for her personal opinion, Kansas high school teacher Jill Gonzales-Bravo could only tell them, "I don't feel at liberty to discuss it." She felt compelled to testify at the Topeka hearings, she said, despite her fear that it was "not really a [good] career move."

Creationism Reincarnated

For a brief period between 1999 and 2001, Kansas science teachers had labored under state standards that de-emphasized evolution. In 2004, voters once more gave conservative religious members a majority on the state's Board of Education; as a result, science standards are to be rewritten yet again, in a way that deprecates evolution and permits discussion of intelligent design. 

"ID," as it's often called, is the idea that natural processes cannot account for the appearance of new species of plants and animals throughout the earth's history -- that although genetic diversity may shift around a lot within species, the species themselves were designed by an entity outside of nature. 

Mainstream scientists are nearly unanimous in rejecting ID, which they say is just a reincarnation of old-fashioned biblical creationism, carefully articulated to avoid going afoul of the Constitution.

In March, a 26-member writing committee assigned by the Board submitted a new draft of science standards that was, well, standard stuff. But eight dissenters on the committee submitted an alternative version that included anti-evolution language. Board members who liked the alternative version decided to schedule hearings for early May in Topeka, to weigh the relative merits of the competing drafts. 

Calvert's witnesses turned out in force. Their side was coming off a big win in Ohio, where, in 2002, they had fought for and gotten a change in school science standards. They knew that Kansas, with a newly elected, pro-creation majority on its school board, would be an easy mark. 

But Kansas's mainstream biologists boycotted the hearings, comparing them to the 1925 Scopes "Monkey Trial." They said the outcome was already decided anyway, and that to defend evolution in what they called a "kangaroo court" would only give the proceedings a veneer of respectability they didn't deserve. 

'A Good Product'

At the hearings, witness after witness spoke of gaping holes in evolutionary theory, the power of ID to fill those holes, and ID's potential to give students the complete and exciting science education they deserve. 

Ohio biology teacher Bryan Leonard testified that he helped write a state lesson plan called "Critical Analysis of Evolution." He said he knows it's a "good product" because of the overwhelmingly positive reaction from students: "The key is to find out what students want and teach toward their interests."

Daniel Ely, professor of biology at the University of Akron, praised the Ohio plan, saying that when students are presented a subject in the form of a controversy and are permitted to argue one side or the other, they "take ownership" of the subject. "When I was a kid, we learned about Communism," he said. "You have to understand both sides." 

Philosophy professor Warren Nord of the University of North Carolina, declaring himself a "liberal in every sense," explained that justice demands inclusion of religious groups in classroom discussion, just as it has ensured that "women and blacks" are included. 


Digg!

Stan Cox lives in Salina, Kan. He has a Ph.D. in plant breeding and cytogenetics and has been a plant breeder for 22 years.

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Consistent location
Posted by: dennyduke@earthlink.net on May 19, 2005 2:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You cite a witness as representing an outfit in Shawnee Mission, Kan.

Which appears to refer to an agency once engaged in the conversion of Native Americans to the religion of their killers.

Well, I guess things haven't changed much in Kansas.

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» RE: Consistent location Posted by: gonzoskismet
Intelligent Design
Posted by: bookwoman on May 19, 2005 4:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I prefer to see Intelligent Design as a concept which keeps God in Evolution rather than as keeping Evolution on the right side of the Constitution. After all, Evolution or Intelligent Design happens all over the world, not just in the United States.

Why is it never mentioned that Darwin was an ordained Anglican clergyman. Can it be that this man of God would actually have laid the foundations for a Godless theory.

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» RE: Intelligent Design Posted by: tofocsend
» RE: Intelligent Design Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: Intelligent Design -- which god? Posted by: The Librarian
» RE: Intelligent Design Posted by: jagger
» RE: Intelligent Design Posted by: holloway
» RE: Intelligent Design Posted by: montims
Ridiculous Tautology
Posted by: tofocsend on May 19, 2005 4:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Evolution ... is based on methodological naturalism, that is, the search by science for explanations only in the natural world. Methodological naturalism always implies philosophical naturalism, the belief that there is nothing beyond the natural world."

This is a ridiculous tautology. Of course science is the search for explanations only in the natural world - the natural world is the only medium humans can observe and manipulate in a documented, repeatable manner - i.e. scientifically.

Science does not presume that "there is nothing beyond the natural world" (although some scientists doubtless believe this), only that science is not competent to explore whatever lies "beyond the natural world".

The simple fact is that there is no contradiction between evolution and creation. Evolution is a scientific theory to explain the diversity in life across space and time, and "intelligent design" (ID) is a philosophical theory to explain how life came to exist in the first place.

As soon as you introduce ID into a science discussion, you're no longer talking about science, since ID implies influence on natural processes that originates from "beyond the natural world" - i.e. outside the purview of science.

If schools want to discuss ultimate questions about how life originated, let them do it in a philosophy class. Transforming science from experiment and observation into mysterious forces that cannot be discussed in class destroys science and does an injustice to whatever mysterious forces may be at work in the universe.

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» RE: idiculous Tautology Posted by: PeterPeter
» RE: idiculous Tautology Posted by: Lava
» RE: idiculous Tautology Posted by: Uncle Sam
» more tautologies... Posted by: andrewtyler
» RE: more tautologies... Posted by: Uncle Sam
» RE:diculous Tautology Posted by: jambro
» RE: diculous Tautology Posted by: tofocsend
» RE: idiculous Tautology Posted by: yesman
from ridiculous to sublime & back, a Muslim perspective
Posted by: jambro on May 19, 2005 4:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America! I teach at an Arab University in a Muslim country with conservative values, no one has ever proposed creationism over evolution. There are, however, religious extremists with "creationism" values who are as far outside the Muslim mainstream as are their Christian cohorts.

As Muslim scientists we are perfectly comfortable with evolution and with a "divine" creator who mysteriously "guides" all natural processes, ideas interwoven in classical Islamic science of the 9th to 13th century. Subsequently, both Christian & Muslim worlds entered a conservative trend that only gradually shifted by a Renaissance in European thought based on rediscovery of Classic Hellenic thought transmitted through Arabic & Muslim scholarship.

Science is a process that has evolved through proposals, tests, and accepting theories as transitional, to be replaced by further refinements. Occasionally, major discoveries can shift the direction of our understanding, but are both rare & do not push the forward progress of science backward.

But many theories along the historical path need re-examination, as when proposed, the scientific community & overall level & distribution of knowledge was insufficient to understand or make use of them. But I doubt that creationism was among those theories.

Creationist tendencies are few and far between in the Muslim world, as even fundamentalists push for a modern reform, but free from Bush's agenda to change the Muslim world via his American fundamentalist vision of rude capital rule & greed at the expense of society & environment.

Science must resist fundamenatlist views that distort reality as much as turbo-capitalism & political agendas that exploit science for nefarious purposes.

For biology, a creation-evolution argument is obsolete as micro-molecular level of bio-chem/physics has reduced biological research to a process of digital statistical simulation, where mathematical calculations are more important than integration at organism or ecological levels. Even ecologists are marginalized, whether concerned about the natural balance as doing god's work of stewardship or saving spaceship earth from self destructing.

Reductionist science thus represents a threat to itself as much as from capitalism & fundamentalists, which threaten an ecologically viable human habitat, whatever a Creator's intent.

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*SIGH*
Posted by: ReverendYankee on May 19, 2005 6:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the direction the country seems to be heading, I guess I'll have to add a secret room to the basement where I can teach my children about that radical theory called 'evolution' without fear of being arrested. I feel like we've been transported backwards (literally and figuratively) into time about 100 years or so. Sad, sad, sad...

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» RE: *SIGH* Posted by: socgrrrl
The Future
Posted by: jobie1kno on May 19, 2005 6:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The longer we live as humankind, the more evidence we will find to support evolution through science. And more evidence to disprove creationism. Perhaps this is why certain powerful elements of society are running full pelt to destroy the planet, and pit one people against another to force the "end-time" to come sooner, rather than later. Better die of ignorance and go to heaven, than pass the health of our planet on to future generations, and let them decide...

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Jesus and the tooth fairy
Posted by: lamar on May 19, 2005 6:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The proposed Kansas standards have little to do with education. What the standards basically do is reconcile the science curriculum with what the kids learn in Sunday school. They aren't learning anything, only confirming the gospel.
Then there is all this talk of letting the kids decide. These are kids that woke up on Christmas and believed that a man in a red suit left them presents, and later that a bunny hid the Easter eggs, and one time a fairy gave them tooth money. We are going to let the kids decide for themselves without teaching them how science really works? Doesn't sound like a fair shake at all.
Intelligent Design is nothing more than instructing kids to believe in a generic fill-in-the-name-later god.

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Fear
Posted by: 42Years on May 19, 2005 7:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Religious conservatives, with the support of the Bush administration, are capitalizing on the unreasonable fears of people brought about by 9/11 and the White House litany of future, imminent terrorist attacks on our Homeland. These same mindless people use their religion to justify their existence rather than accept the fact the human beings are the result of chance evolution in a cold, dark universe. Religion gives meaning to life for those who are feeling small and insignificant. Would a higher power allow all the killing and horrible acts that have been done in the name of religion? No. Religion is there because we created it to make life seem more worthwhile than accepting the fact that we are specks on a speck in a universe of specks. It is much easier to believe that we are at the center of that universe than to accept that we are merely two-bit players. Our self-importance is only exceeded by our self-righteousness. Amen.

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BREAKING NEWS!
Posted by: monkeywrench on May 19, 2005 7:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We interrupt this broadcast of "The Taliban In Kansas," to bring you this NEWS FLASH!

In Kansas City, hearings began today to determine how the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, and the Boogie Man have influenced Intelligent Design. Experts on the subject, Alice, from Wonderland, and someone known only as "The Wizard of Oz" are scheduled to testify this morning.

These hearings are expected to last either through Eternity, or until the arrival of Armegedden and The Rapture, whichever comes first.

Tune in later at "The Witching Hour," for film of this exciting event.

Thank you. And now, back to our previously-scheduled program, "As the Stomach Turns."

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» RE: BREAKING NEWS! Posted by: apodapa
» RE: BREAKING NEWS! Posted by: gonzoskismet
What I believe responsible persons in the non-scientific community should understand
Posted by: amiabledave on May 19, 2005 7:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What needs to be understood in the non-scientific community is what science means by the term "theory." Science has such respect for truth that it refers to all its best systems of knowledge on any subject to be theory: the theory of gravity, the theory of electro-magnetism, the theory of plate tectonics, the theory of light, the theories of relativity, or the theory of evolution--the organizing principle of modern biology. Although there is about as much evidence for evolution as the sun rising (figuratively) each morning, science cannot--by its rigorous rules--call it fact because it cannot replicate evolution in a laboratory. And it never will be able to do that.

A theory is an assumption or system of assumptions, accepted principles, and rules of procedure, which may be based on limited information or knowledge, or thousands of irrefutable facts. It is devised to analyze, predict, or otherwise explain the nature or behavior of a specified set of phenomena. That's what science is about. Theories undergo constant revision as more tools and knowledge become available, bringing the theory ever closer to what, for all practical purposes, is the truth. Intelligent design does not not serve this purposes or the scientific method.

What I think must also be understood is the vast difference between deign and order. A watch, for example, is a designed mechanism. Anybody stumbling upon such a device knows, ipso facto, that such a mechanical device must have had a human designer. No so, however, with the universe, our solar system chemisty, DNA, or the intricate sculpturing of earth, mountains, and shore lines. These, just like stars and galaxies, are ordered systems created and carved out by a few natural laws of nature over uimaginable stretches of time.

Saying there is a God only removes the complexity problem by one step and shuts off further thinking--what science must never do.

And finallly, it is abiogenesis that deals with the transformation of non-living matter into living organisms. It's not a part of evolution.

Many, if not most, argue that religion serves many human needs that science cannot. And that is fine. What cannot be affirmed also cannot be negated. There are many places for philosophical speculation to take place. It just must not be in the science class if our civilization is to continue going forward.

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The Dumbing Down of America
Posted by: Andros on May 19, 2005 8:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The dumbing down of America continues. OK, we know nothing, everything is a theory, etc.... Too many people prefer myths that explain everything with absolute certainty to the most comprehensive theory that's still gathering answers and enhancing our understanding of the physical world we live in.
Science has delivered already. The quality and length of human life have increased because of science. We rationalists, scientists and progressives all want to share the knowledge and our conclusions. But, we always leave the door open for new ideas even if they contradict today's conclusions. However, those new ideas/theories must be testable, present evidence, and, themselves be open to revision! Obviously ID does not hold up to such a standard.

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Evolution Just A Theory?
Posted by: thirdmg on May 19, 2005 8:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some time ago, PBS presented an excellent TV miniseries about evolution. It's a good example of why the anti-intellectual radical right feels so threatened by PBS and is so determined to undermine it.

Here's a quote from the series' online FAQ about evolution:

"Isn't evolution just a theory that remains unproven?"

"In science, a theory is a rigorously tested statement of general principles that explains observable and recorded aspects of the world. A scientific theory therefore describes a higher level of understanding that ties "facts" together. A scientific theory stands until proven wrong -- it is never proven correct. The Darwinian theory of evolution has withstood the test of time and thousands of scientific experiments; nothing has disproved it since Darwin first proposed it more than 150 years ago. Indeed, many scientific advances, in a range of scientific disciplines including physics, geology, chemistry, and molecular biology, have supported, refined, and expanded evolutionary theory far beyond anything Darwin could have imagined."

You can find the FAQ here.

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SCIENCE EDUCATION
Posted by: susan9390 on May 19, 2005 9:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was a biology teacher faced with the problem of how to give my students "the complete and exciting science education they deserve." I started with a lesson on the difference between knowledge and belief, and the way in which the scientific method is used to advance our understanding of the world in which we live. Then we look at data as bits of information and how those can be organized into theories. Since I have an instinctive antipathy toward dichotomies, I would try to guide students to formulate three theories: creation, evolution, and "space seed." For all three theories, there are data - facts - in support. On my first exam, the essay question was to name the three theories, select the one you believe in, and support it with data.

Science education is not about teaching the answers. It's about asking thought-provoking questions.

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» RE: SCIENCE EDUCATION Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: SCIENCE EDUCATION Posted by: Lava
» RE: SCIENCE EDUCATION Posted by: apodapa
Athiesm as religion?
Posted by: doktordubbs on May 19, 2005 9:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As an athiest, I'm quite pleased to be informed by the powers that be that we are a religion. Maybe now I can get all my godless commie friends together, apply for tax-exempt status, and let the perks that other "faiths" take for granted start rolling in.

As a social worker as well, maybe I can get some funding for this new athiestic agency under the Faith-Based Initiative and start lecturing my clients about the non-existence of their gods and the lack of heaven and hell to reward/punish them.

One reason athiests (that I know, at least) DON'T like to be called a religion is that we reject the fundamental requirements for a religion (higher powers et al) as well as the platitudes and dogma (i.e. the man in the sky intelligently designed that factory farmed chicken you ate) that permeate organized religious practices.

Tax-exempt status would be nice, though...

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» RE: Athiesm as religion? Posted by: apodapa
Not again
Posted by: HeyMO on May 19, 2005 9:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Religion is just another mechanism to artificially divide a species.

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Prayer can Cure Cancer, LOL
Posted by: padam on May 19, 2005 9:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah thats what we need our teachers telling students. Then they can tell em Jesus will protect them when they to to IRAQ in the new holy war.

I just thank the Tooth Fairy that my teachers tought me evolution, otherwise I might be one of those stupid republicans.

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» RE: Prayer can Cure Cancer, LOL Posted by: englehart
» RE: Prayer can Cure Cancer, LOL Posted by: wanderwoman
Religion if the opiate of the masses
Posted by: WitchyNy on May 19, 2005 9:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The thing is...when you get into superstring theory and all that....it is such amazing stuff on its own. The patterns in the universe....time and space.

All I have found that the Bible states is that Man came from clay. Which it true. It is just that a lot of time and stuff happened in between...(like billions of years and evolution)

If you value your kids education, they are not in public schools anyway...they are just factories for training slaves.

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Problem with Intelligent Design Creationists
Posted by: gailnsteve on May 19, 2005 9:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is not their ideas which are goofy but with their hubris, which is off the charts. These are the same people who think that there is only one way to heaven-- THEIR way, only one kind of family-- THEIR kind, one kind of marraige-- THEIR kind, and one kind of patriotism-- THEIR kind. Is it any wonder, then, that there can only be one possible notion of how life orginated on this planet. These people have to pray every night that Kurt Vonnegut isn't right and that the creation and entire history of life on earth is not just so that some alien species could deliver a part for a broken down space craft. Of course, once they get their way we'll be able to teach that as a valid theory too.

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Dennis Dalrymple
Posted by: DennisDalrymple on May 19, 2005 10:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Roseannadanna:

What's all this fuss about Cretinism in Kansas I've been hearing about on the nes, and why are so many people in favor of Cretinism? Don't they know Cretinism is tragic?
It's one of God's mistakes. Don't those people in Kansas understand this? We don't need more Cretinism, we need less.

Off stage voice: Creationism, Roseannadanna; they're talking about Creationism in Kansas.

Roseannadanna: Never mind.

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» RE: Dennis Dalrymple Posted by: billgascoyne@earthlink.net
» RE: Dennis Dalrymple Posted by: DennisDalrymple
We are here right now!
Posted by: Iamnotafruittree on May 19, 2005 10:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Humans are here right now, alive. Let's start there. It is a fantasy to think that if we finally find out where we really came from all our questions will be answered. Nature has never worked that way. (In case you haven't noticed, Mother Nature is REAL, your god is NOT!) She will give you even more questions that we will not be able to answer! Can't we just get along? Why make people unhappy all the time with crap like this? These poor kids are not loved anyway. We are too busy making our children in an image that never has or never will exist. Luckly, Mother Nature has been busy making kids smarter at a younger age, so one day they will teach us to just shut up and enjoy our lives and love each other. Thank you Mother for our children!

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a glorious future
Posted by: enkidu on May 19, 2005 10:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My fellow believers,

Once we win in Kansas and then through out the world and manage to get the Creator back in the classrooms, we should start arguing that the Earth is flat and force’em to drop the ridiculous spherical shape!

I am still upset about the pardon of Galileo! Lets retract that! It was, after all, given up too easily after only 500 years!

I am sure we could use the same witness from this Kansas trial to argue the flatness of the Earth.

Who’s on?


P.S. This is not my idea – GOD told me himself he never liked spherical objects!

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» RE: a glorious future Posted by: apodapa
The Problem of Faith
Posted by: heech on May 19, 2005 11:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find it fascinating that creationists are rarely challenged on the fundamental aspect of their belief in God. Not whether or not God exists but rather that their faith in God is so weak that it requires the usurption of anything that they, and they alone, believe might challenge it, even though evolution, in no way, does this.

While I am an aetheist it strikes me as odd that the most powerful faith in what is described as the most powerful God, in so many cases, can be so easily thrown out of its comfort zone by something so beautiful, mysterious, and complex as it's own creator's possible methods.

Are they so frightened by the idea of dinosaurs and apes and saber tooth tigers that their belief in God might be shattered if they looked closely at their own God's footprints of the only artifacts of a possible design that God has given them?

It's also odd to me that so many people simply don't understand what science can and cannot explain. If more Christians understood how physics can describe only the moments before the universe's inception but not the actual "creation" or "birth" (depending on which side of the coin you prefer) nor what was there before (though "something" must have been unless we subscribe to another kind of unknowable faith ... that something this big can arise from nothing, that non-being gave birth to being) they might take some comfort.

Physicists admit, openly, that they cannot describe what took place before the universe's coming into being and that they may never be able to (though they would love to find a unified theory that brought even that into play). This is hardly an argument for aetheism. It is much more an indication that since we may never know, God is just as good a bet.

Existence itself is the most perplexing and weird thought man can ponder. Hence the potency of the Intelligent Design and afterlife and God in Heaven, etc. etc.

Science tells us this: the universe began ... and we don't know how and we dont know why.

In the end it is always faith that believers should call upon. The "why" and not the "how" when communing with their God. Making laws that outlaw other systems of knowing can only undermine and dimminish that core sense of genuineness that a truly faith based and spiritual connection with God is supposed to be about.

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» RE: The Problem of Faith Posted by: Uncle Sam
» RE: The Problem of Faith Posted by: Lava
» RE: The Problem of Faith Posted by: apodapa
» RE: magic time Posted by: apodapa
speaking of Iraq
Posted by: Geni on May 19, 2005 12:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It would also have been nice for the Iraqis - those ingrates! - if America hadn't installed Saddam Hussein there in the first place, if they hadn't wrecked the nation's water supply and other infrastructure in the process of taking him out, and if they didn't round up and torture random people there.

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The Scientific Method
Posted by: Twist on May 19, 2005 12:55 PM   
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Are these people going to jump from attacking the theory of evolution to attacking the scientific method in general? Science can never truly deal with the question of whether God exists because an adequate controllable testable hypothesis for the question "is there a God" would be based on things that are "supernatural" and that "we can't observe or understand", Which are completely inappropriate things to deal with in science. ID theorists are not scientist, they are metaphysicians and rather bad ones at that.

Evolution, like any other scientific theory is God neutral. It is based on observations, and testable hypothesis's like "gene frequencies will change with respect to environmental pressures", and "fossils found in lower geological strata seem less complicated than those in higher strata", or "the coding for our proteins is nearly exactly the same from bacteria to human beings" for which the EVIDENCE is remarkably one sided. So, scientists who are apt to go with the evidence are remarkably one sided with respect to evolutionary theory.

The scientific method is In fact "materialistic" in that it limits us to testable hypotheses or "things that we can limit and observe, and most importantly see". Science doesn't exclude the possibility of God, it just can't deal with it directly. God is not directly observable in controlled testing. This doesn't make science a "religious belief", which would be based on faith, it makes it a methodological discipline for acquiring knowledge.

So, I have to ask, why are they attacking Evolution and not simply attacking the scientific method? Which limits scientific testing to what we can observe controllably (limited to materialism, or those "supernatural things that can be observed"). Is the scientific method going to be taught in these Kansas schools, if not are we going to have to replace it with wild faith based, biased religious guesswork.

What is a Biology teacher supposed to say to the kid that would ask "how Is ID theory derived from the scientific method?" when they are being taught, one after the other, in the same classroom?

Why should metaphysics be taught next to controlled science? Wouldn't it simply be more appropriate to teach children about design metaphysics in a philosophy class?

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» RE: The Scientific Method Posted by: Rod in 83706
Belief in God is based on the reality of the universe God created
Posted by: Bill Ware on May 19, 2005 1:09 PM   
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For those of us who believe in the God of reality, there is no conflict between faith and science. We are in awe as we find out more about the universe that God created through the knowledge that science continues to provide us.

It is only those who believe in Biblical mythology who have a problem with science. Those ID creationists who turn a blind eye to scientific observations such as the age of the earth, and scientific theories such as the theory of evolution, not only show disrespect for God by turning their backs on the realities of His marvelous creation, but also embarrass the rest of us who base our belief in God on reality not fantasy.

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I'm In Kansas & So Are You
Posted by: mrbrown on May 19, 2005 2:02 PM   
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Yes, I'm actually a Kansas teacher, although I teach at the elementary level where this issue is not a part of my curriculum. So, I've been following this issue for years and am just as incredulous as the first day I heard about it.

I've always been resistant to criticism of our educational system. As a part of it, I’m well aware of how professional and dedicated my own collogues are. But… now that this issue has reared it’s ugly head and is moving well into the mainstream… as I see unbridled ignorance guiding our religious beliefs, our educational system and our government… it really makes me wonder where the teachers of the past several decades could have gone so wrong.

Several posters have mentioned the fact that this battle is being fought in Kansas. Yes, it is, but it is also an issue in states across this country. Please be careful not to adopt the typical East/West coast attitude that Kansas is some foreign country populated by hillbillies, cowboys and Indians. Sure we have some of all of the above, but this is a nationwide battle. And just as the Bush administration has been elected and re-elected, it can “happen here”. Bushites are thrilled that their electorate has become so incredibly ignorant. Who else would vote for them?

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» RE: I'm In Kansas & So Are You Posted by: Samantha Vimes
» RE: I'm In Kansas & So Are You Posted by: gonzoskismet
Deadlocked Darwin debate
Posted by: nemonemini on May 19, 2005 2:19 PM   
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One of the casualties of the Darwin debate in its current form is the purely secular critique of Darwin's theory. Both sides would like us to believe they exhaust the alternatives, and that if there is a problem with Darwinism then some spiritual answer is required. Nothing could be further from the truth, and it might have been/should be the job of the liberal/left to provide an ideological challenge to Darwin's theory. Instead we have the reign of scientism and reductionism that is inadequate as a foundation for social philosophy. Why is it that only the ID and Creationists groups can find the problems with Darwin's theory? The scientific critics of Darwinism have been silenced, making everyone close ranks around Darwinism. This is a failing/failed approach to the issue, as the resurgent ID movement makes clear. The question of 'design' has a long philosophic history, and yet current students of science are unable to handle it, and repeat the failed claims that natural selection refuted forever the design argument. The Kantian challenge to design is carefully bypassed by both sides, because they have an agenda. The ID proponents operate on their public assuming they are ignorant of this ancient strategy long since rebuked by philosophers from Hume to Kant. And Darwinists create a kind of propaganda about Darwin's theory, an equal fiction. The result is to be set up for the fall and the opening handed to the ID movement. It is time for the left to expose the ideological games here, and open up the debate to some fresh answers. Intelligent Design is an exploitation, while Darwinian selectionism is a kind of ideology. They are both inadequate. Once the limits of both sides are seen, the headway created by the ID movement would collapse because noone would be forced into a false duality.

As to the Scopes Trial, it's worth keeping in mind that the textbook in question at the trial was filled with racist eugenic material. Even a secularist would find it hard to stomach what was being defended by the Darrows et al. Small wonder Bryan was critical of Social Darwinism!

The right approach is to defend the legacy of evolution, allow open debate over the mechanism of evolution between the problems of natural selection and the near 'scam' of intelligent design'.

John Landon
Debriefing Darwinism

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» RE: Deadlocked Darwin debate Posted by: nemonemini
» RE: Deadlocked Darwin debate Posted by: wanderwoman
From Scopes I to Scope II
Posted by: Bill Ware on May 19, 2005 2:53 PM   
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Here's a little something I sent to the Kansas Star Tribune two weeks ago:

"To the people of Kansas:

"From an article about Dayton, TN in National Geographic and a more recent one in The Smithsonian, to articles earlier this year in Newsweek and Time, to the many newspaper pieces about the science of evolution vs "Intelligent Design," Creationism's latest manifestation, few reports can be found that fail to remind readers of how backward we are here in Rhea County, TN by mentioning our infamous 1925 Scopes "Monkey" Trial.

"Then, in an article about your upcoming kangaroo court proceedings, the writer referred to your putting evolution on trial as "Scopes II." My heart leapt at the thought that here might be a place ready to abandon scientific reality and embrace this ID pseudo-science mumbo jumbo, thus getting this 80 year monkey off our backs and putting the onus on yours instead. To the people of Kansas I say: Go for it!"

For some reason, they didn't publish it. BW

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The Fraudulent Product
Posted by: Duane on May 19, 2005 4:27 PM   
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This is among the very best, most insightful and clearest articles I have seen on the Kansas hearing. Perhaps one of the most telling points was the comment by biology teacher Bryan Leonard referring to the creationist lesson plans he helped to write as "a 'good product' because of the overwhelmingly positive reaction from students." First, he was correct to use the word "product." ID creationism is nothing more than a set of marketing ploys to provide a introductory "product" that is being sold as part of a bait and switch fraud. Second, this "product" is a harmful product that will stunt the intellectual growth of our children and weaken our country. Third, education is about what students need not what they want. And they sure don't need any form of creationism. Having said that, I'm not sure that we always do a great job of packaging what the students need in a way that is easy to learn. Teaching real science from preschool on would go a long way to solve this problem. Again, thanks for the great article.

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» RE: The Fraudulent Product Posted by: apodapa
Their REAL Fear?
Posted by: monkeywrench on May 19, 2005 5:14 PM   
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Why is the Religious Right in our country sooo afraid of Evolution? Could it be that their very behavior – their rage at anyone who contradicts them, their advocacy of killing abortionists (and Muslums) – stands as proof that we are, in fact, descended from killer apes? (Hummm. . .as I rub my chin and scratch my head, I wonder. . .)

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Parallels with McLean v. Arkansas
Posted by: cynodont on May 19, 2005 6:25 PM   
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If this description of Calvert's argument is accurate, it is almost exactly a repeat of the argument made by the creationist side in McLean v. Arkansas Board of Education (1982), which struck down a law that required the teaching of evolution to be "balanced" by the teaching of "creation science."

To excerpt from Judge Overton's decision in that case:

"The defendants argue in their brief that evolution is, in effect, a religion, and that by teaching a religion which is contrary to some students' religious views, the State is infringing upon the student's free exercise rights under the First Amendment ...

"The defendants argue that the teaching of evolution alone presents both a free exercise problem and an establishment problem which can only be redressed by giving balanced treatment to creation science, which is admittedly consistent with some religious beliefs ...

"If creation science is, in fact, science and not religion, as the defendants claim, it is difficult to see how the teaching of such a science could "neutralize" the religious nature of evolution.

"Assuming for the purposes of argument, however, that evolution is a religion or religious tenet, the remedy is to stop the teaching of evolution, not establish another religion in opposition to it."

The full text of the decision is at Talk Origins .

The argument about balancing one religion with another clearly didn't fly with Overton. It will be interesting to see whether it flies in the inevitable U.S. Supreme Court case that ID has been "intelligently designed" to withstand.

Calvert's argument also has the consequence of allowing supernatural and religious "explanations" into every science class. Just replace the word "evolution" with any other science in the sentence, "Evolution as it's now taught in Kansas schools is based on methodological naturalism, that is, the search by science for explanations only in the natural world," go through the rest of Calvert's argument, and you're on your way to such winners as flood geology.

Perhaps we should also allow teachers to present evidence in favor of the "stork theory" of human reproduction. After all, all that stuff about sperm and eggs and DNA recombining -- that's just atheism.

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"gosh toto, we're not in kansas any more"
Posted by: jambro on May 19, 2005 6:26 PM   
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wizard of oz, at teh end of the yellow brick road, a fuddy dudy, maybe harry truman ... kansas is a myth .. my mum's people migrated from Central England to follow the yellow brick road across teh comberland gap & daniel boone, on to illinois, then across the big river to keep kansas territory free from the missouri slavers intent on taking it into the confederacy ... republican to the hilt, but after nixon mum could not vote anymore except for 3rd party candidates ... my cousins are all stout jayhawkers but would probably drive out the creationists as they did the slavers ... kansas is many places & peoples widely differing in ethnicity & religion, .... how many black christians support ID? in short these gung-ho christian fundamentalists are also racists & not much better than their ancestors who crawled up from the south with their biblical denial that blacks were human ... a pox on their houses, then, now & for the future, maybe a good old fashioned black rebellion might run them back south ... & preserve kansas as a liberal democracy ..

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Things Evolutionists don't want you to know.....
Posted by: Donkeykong on May 19, 2005 6:35 PM   
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1) What the scientific method is. Specifically the part about you make a claim about a future event that can easily be falsified by a clearly described test, this test is then conducted by OTHER entities who then verify that you were correct. The status as the one most able to accurately predict the future gives you the ability to state what the accepted dogma is.-Evolution fails this, firstly by not predicting future events but rather explaining them after the fact, secondly by having theories that are not easily falsified even if they are wrong, take some time and think how you would falsify natural selection from fossil evidence even if I created 100% fake fossil evidence and admitted 0% real fossil evidence you could not easily falsify natural selection as the theory would mutate to fit the details.

2) Evolution is dishonest about its origions. Evolution depends 100% on Abiogenesis (life from non-life). Evolutionists will tell you that even if God created life it evolved but honestly if there was an uncontested God capable of making all life would evolution really be a viable theory?? Its like walking into a house after a gunshot to find the wife with a gun in her hand and then debating wether or not the thermal energy in the house all happened to coaless at one specific point to create a gunshot like wound.

3) Evolution depends on randomness for plausibility but lies about how unlikely complex life is. Your DNA is made up of 4 types of DNA-base, so if you randomly selected from 4 big piles of DNA-bases you would have a 25% chance of picking the right one, However you are made up of ~6 billion base pairs and 4^6 billion is a number significantly larger than the total number of particles in the universe. Mathematically impossible just slightly misses the mark, but mathematically impossible in 4 billion years within known methods of action seems to apply.

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Things evolutionists don't want yo