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Having Fun With Intelligent Design
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Here's what I think. Science teachers can comply with the requirement and still offer their students a first-rate education. If done with imagination, the new curriculum could end up stimulating more learning and excitement than their traditional explication of Darwinian theory.
I wouldn't have made this argument 20 years ago. At that time, school boards' interventions were far more restrictive. Science teachers were obliged to inform their students that the story of Genesis was literally true. But in 1987, the U.S. Supreme Court put a stop to that by declaring the teaching of creationism in the classroom a violation of the Constitutional insistence on the separation of church and state.
The Court decision spawned a more nuanced and sophisticated approach by anti-evolutionists: intelligent design. Intelligent design is not creationism per se. It holds that higher forms of life are so complex they must have been created by an unspecified higher power. The key word here is "unspecified." Many school board members who support an intelligent design mandate believe that higher power is Jesus. But they aren't forcing anyone to teach that in schools.
What they do require is that teachers offer a critique of evolution and suggest alternative theories about the origins of life. How might a good science teacher comply with these new directives without compromising their principles or their dignity? Or to put it slightly more aggressively, how might a biology teacher educate his or her students while at the same time teach meddling school board members a lesson?
All teachers know that their first and hardest job is to gain the student's attention and interest. What subject best attracts a teenager's undivided attention? Sex. Happily, when it comes to evolution, sex is central.
I recommend that biology teachers begin by discussing Elisabeth A. Lloyd's decidedly scientific book, The Case of the Female Orgasm. No school board member should complain. The book's subtitle, "Bias in the Science of Evolution," clearly fits with the new requirement that teachers critique evolutionary theory.
Darwinians can explain the male orgasm. After all, the male ejaculation is necessary for the survival and perpetuation of the species, and if giving the male great pleasure while doing so promotes that, then natural selection would eventually endow the male orgasm with that characteristic.
When it comes to the human female orgasm, however, evolutionists are stumped. No other female of the animal kingdom experiences an orgasm. Professor Lloyd examines 21 evolution-based explanations for the female orgasm, and demolishes every one of them.
Here the biology teacher might offer the class the alternative explanation of intelligent design. Is the intelligent power simply leveling the playing field between the sexes? Or is Professor Lloyd right that the female orgasm is "just for fun," and the intelligent power is female?
Then there's the question of male homosexuality. From a Darwinian perspective, it's a puzzle. The theory of natural selection should guarantee the disappearance of males that don't reproduce. But they keep hanging around, in considerable numbers, in every culture and every era.
Evolutionists have their theories. Psychologist Louis A. Berman argues that it has to do with embryonic development. Medical doctor Lorne Warneke suggests that homosexuality actually offers a natural advantage. Homosexuals instill a more cooperative impulse that helps perpetuate the kinship group and tribe.
A good science teacher will follow the school board's guidance and propose intelligent design as an alternative explanation for male homosexuality. Could there be an intelligent power that has created and nurtured male homosexuality? Does that mean God is gay?
School boards require science teachers to offer alternative explanations about how life began. That presents still another opportunity for creative educators.
Evolutionists argue that life evolved over tens of millions of years via natural selection. Intelligent design advocates believe the creation of life was overseen and guided by an intelligent power.
The biology teacher should offer students creationism as a possible explanatory theory of the origins of life. And, of course, subject it to the same rigorous scientific analysis the teacher uses to evaluate the accurateness of evolution. The students will learn that the scientific evidence for the-heavens-and-the-earth-and-all-life-was-formed-in-six days theory of the origins of life is virtually nonexistent.
Moreover, substantial empirical evidence exists to demonstrate that the Bible has the order of the origination of life wrong. On day three, for example, the Bible tells us (Genesis 1:6-10) that God created "vegetation, plants yielding seed and fruit trees...." On the fifth day He made "birds fly above the earth" and "the waters teem with swarms of living creatures." On the sixth day He created the "beasts of the earth."
But geology teaches us that fish were in the seas hundreds of millions of years before a tree was on the ground. Birds did not appear until well after beasts of the field. And if a dinosaur is a beast of the field, then flowering and fruit-bearing plants did not appear until after beasts of the field.
If a Christian God as described in the Bible was not the agent of the origin of life, who, or what, was the intelligent designer? Here the diligent science teacher should offer a series of alternatives. One of the most compelling should command the attention of teenagers almost as much as sex: space aliens.
In his 1983 book The Intelligent Universe, respected physicist Fred Hoyle asks whether life could have evolved at random. "Impossible," he answers. That conclusion should hearten the intelligent design folks. But Hoyle does not dismiss the theory of evolution. His criticism of Darwinism is that it is an earthbound theory. Life derived from outer space. "Genes from outside the earth are needed to drive the evolutionary process," Hoyle concludes.
An even more intriguing and far better documented theory about the origins of life than Hoyle's is that of Swiss writer Erich von Daniken. Daniken's book, Chariots of the Gods, was translated into 28 languages, and has sold over 60 million copies worldwide. It was the basis of the much-watched 1970s television show "In Search of Ancient Astronauts."
Von Daniken amassed an enormous amount of evidence to substantiate his thesis, which he summed up this way: "Dim, as yet indefinable ages ago, an unknown spaceship discovered our planet. The crew of the spaceship soon found that the Earth had all the prerequisites for intelligent life to develop.... The spacemen artificially fertilized some female members of this species...." Over millennia they returned several times to repeat this procedure, each time breeding a more advanced human.
In some respects, Von Daniken bridges the theory of evolution and intelligent design. He agrees with the theory of evolution, but proposes that the evolutionary seed or seeds, were planted by space travelers. He notes that ancient civilization greatly respected such visitors and called them "gods." He records legend upon legend from one civilization to another whose records tell of the gods interbreeding with humans.
The creative biology teacher could build another bridge between Von Daniken and creationism. One Christian website for example, citing the sixth chapter of Genesis as its source, declares, "Von Daniken is correct... beings did, in fact arrive on at least two different occasions; and their visitation truly did significantly influence the course of human history, and they did interbreed with humans." But the writer continues, "These beings, however, were angels, not 'aliens from outer space.'" These are fallen angels, of course.
There's no question that if science teachers had their druthers, they wouldn't be teaching intelligent design or gratuitously criticizing evolution in their classrooms. But they do. They can whine or refuse or resign. How much better for them to take this opportunity to teach their students while exasperating their school boards with the power of thoughtful investigation. And have a whole lot of fun doing so.
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Posted by: guychick on May 23, 2005 12:14 AM
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» RE: the premise of Intelligent design
Posted by: warpig
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Posted by: dennyduke@earthlink.net on May 23, 2005 12:39 AM
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I've been thinking about this for awhile: Why not start “Intro to Science” with a basic definition of what a scientific theory is, and as an exercise, the class examines two theories of “How We Got Here” or some neutral title. Then simply state each theory, validate it as a theorem. Then see how each explains the evidence.
Bring in issues like provability criteria, problems with proving a negative – maybe even bring in how this relates not only to the absurdity of “Prove God Don’t Exist” as well as the problem with presumption of guilt, where you’re required to prove a negative – I didn’t do that. (The underlying social and moral issues).
Give them exactly what they claim to be asking for: teach creationism alongside evolution, but as a comparative analysis, something a lot of these ninnies probably don't even have a clue about which is real basic science, just like the double-blind experiment. Go for the throat - teach science and teach these gangsters a lesson.
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Posted by: sapatatanka on May 23, 2005 1:18 AM
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the guy with the six-day creation job cannot possibly have been a christian god. Check out the chronology.
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» RE: Christian creator?
Posted by: Bubba
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Posted by: dearkitty on May 23, 2005 3:00 AM
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» RE: More on creationism controversy
Posted by: warpig
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Posted by: PeterPeter on May 23, 2005 5:48 AM
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Posted by: nosylae on May 23, 2005 6:08 AM
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Posted by: rickcreswell@yahoo.com on May 23, 2005 6:26 AM
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The Moody science film about trees states that guttation is reponsible for getting water from roots to leaves, ignoring the decades-old research on evapotranspiration. I think they like "facts" that stay the same wether true or not.
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Posted by: 42Years on May 23, 2005 6:36 AM
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Posted by: silkreed on May 23, 2005 6:35 AM
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For a wonderful sociopolitical commentary see the article by Albert A. Bartlett, 1996, "The New Flat Earth Society."
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» RE: Flat Earth
Posted by: gdgoodman
» RE: Flat Earth
Posted by: Rod in 83706
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Posted by: doctordave on May 23, 2005 6:42 AM
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Here are a couple of questions that help me think about the issue of intelligent design. Why don't we (humans or other animals) have wheels? The wheel does not seem to be a concept beyond the comprehension of most human designers who might claim to be intleligent. Wheels are great energy savers and would seem to have been well suited for at least some earth's various terrains.
Many cognitive scientists suggest that the mind is what the brain does. It would seem that any consideration of intelligent design would beg us to consider carefully the designer's brain. There is ample evidence that the human mind has numerous inadequacies (demonstrated by optical illusions, its susceptibility to numerous logical inconsistencies, and its great difficulty with abstraction). Does the mind that designed our brains (presumably "in its image") have these same flaws? If not, what was the point of afflicting us with these inadequacies? If it does have the same inadequacies, is it also plagued by prejudice, stereotyping, greed, etc?
This sounds like a great way to engage a class. Cheers!
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» RE: intelligent design (i.e., Little Green Men)
Posted by: recj50
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Posted by: gramps on May 23, 2005 7:13 AM
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Christ said that the Kingdom of God was like a farmer sowing seeds, some fall on stones, some are blown away by the wind, and some are eaten by birds; but those that fall on good soil will grow.
This is as good an explanation of natural selection as one could ask for.
Humans create with their hands and tend to think manually.
Their God's are anthropomorphic. They can not imagine a God without the need of hands that has eternity to create in.
Nor do they recognize themselves as creations of God that can build computers and even fabricate from the gene technology, and travel in outer space.
Why should we compromise with ignorance and stupidity in our schools?
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Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver on May 23, 2005 7:39 AM
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Biological Exuberance
Bruce Bagemihl, PhD -1999
0-213-19239-8
591.562 B144
In correction to your particular statement I offer these two quotations:
There is a long and sordid history of statement of human uniqueness. Over the years, I have read that humans are the only creatures that laugh, that kill other members of their own species, that lie, that exhibit female orgasm, or that kill their own young. Every one of these never-never-land statements is now known to be false. To this list must now be added the statement that humans are the only species that exhibit "true" homosexuality. Does anyone ever state that we alone exhibit true heterosexuality?
--James Weinrich, biologist, quoted in Biological Exuberance, pg 45-46
As we have seen, one way that zoologist have tried to avoid classifying same-sex activity as "homosexuality" is by using terminology and behavioral categories that deny it is sexual activity at all. This approach also extends to the intrpretations, explanations, and "functions" attributed to same-sex behavior, even when it involves the most overt and explicit of activities. Astounding as it sounds, a number of scientists have actually argued that when a femal Bonobo wraps her legs around another
female, rubbing her own clitoris against her partner's while emitting screams of enjoyment, this is actually "greeting" behavior, or "tension-regulation" behavior, or "social-bonding", or "food-exchange" behavior -- almost anything, it seems, besides pleasurable sexual behavior.
--Bruce Bagemihl, Biological Exuberance, pg 106
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» RE: Minor Correction
Posted by: Violetflame11
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Posted by: owlbear1 on May 23, 2005 7:53 AM
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It has only ONE theorem (sort of) , NO reproducible experiments, and demands that several other branches of science MUST be completely ignored(Geology, Physics, Anthropology, Paleontology) in order for it to work.
The course should take about an hour to complete since students will have NOTHING to study.
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Posted by: thirdmg on May 23, 2005 8:29 AM
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But a few serious points:
1. Homosexual behavior is common throughout the animal kingdom, not just in humans. Remember the recent news stories about the gay penguins in the German zoo? Obviously, such behavior can't be detrimental to the general survival of a species or it would be quickly weeded out. It might even play a clear survival purpose, such as population control. And, since we humans are destroying the environment primarily through over-population, wouldn't support for gays rights and gay marriage be good survival and environmental policy?
2. While theology may be defined as a body of conjecture (meaning that it's anyone's guess), the physical sciences are usually defined as bodies of knowledge. The reasons for the difference are based on testability and feedback. In science, theories are more or less believable based on either corroborating or contradicting data. Theology and other forms of human knowledge lack testability. That's why we turn to science and not theology for creating technologies to improve our living conditions. And, by the way, evidence for evolution as fact is increasingly confirmed within several fields of scientific investigation.
3. Christian fundamentalist creationists in America generally deny and blind themselves to the fact that belief in Darwinian evolution does not require atheistic belief. They ignore the fact that millions of religionists believe in evolution. They even ignore the fact that Darwin himself was not an atheist. The reason for ignoring these facts is that they have no means of bridging the contradiction between a literal interpretation of the Bible's special creation of plants, animals and humans, as described in Genesis, and the evolutionary concept of the development of species over long periods of time. Creationists in America try to force data to fit their beliefs rather than adjusting their beliefs to fit the data. That's a form of intellectual dishonesty, and its the major reason why the debate continues decade after decade, but only in America.
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» Let's beat them at their own game!
Posted by: Andros
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Posted by: becky141 on May 23, 2005 8:54 AM
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I laughed at the doctrine of "inerrancy", the belief that there are no errors in the Bible. Anybody who knows the history of the Bible knows that it is full of errors. Pure, provable fact. A simple disection of Genesis reveals two creation stories that contradict each other. As for the "literal truth", this is a history of a bunch of Arab Jews (no disrespect intended) over a 5,000 year period. When you study the Bible as History, you aren't inclined to worship lifted phrases as particularly instructive for everyday life.
Maybe that's the only way to beat this gang of religious theocrats at their own game. The danger is that the courses are taken over by indoctrinated Fundamentalists who do not allow critical thinking. A PH.D. Minister, the School Guidance Counselor, who wrote a book declaring that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, took over the Bible Classes when my son took them. For a free thinker, it was a disastrous experience.
That's the danger of letting Intelligent Design slip through the cracks as Science. You'll get a few creative teachers, and quite a few "party line" fundamentalists who will botch it. Our Youth will suffer. Better to stop these thugs ahead of time, and insist that sanity prevail. It is critical to understand that True Believers have one very narrow, very limited concept of "truth" and no amount of facts can change their minds.
Remember, the leaders of the Religious Right movement came from the ranks of rabid anti-communitist John Birchers. Religion is the "enforcer" of the white male patriarchy as the divine rule of the masses. The money of the Scaifes and Ahmanson's paid for the intense infiltration of every religious denomination in America. (Google Institute for Religion and Democracy for more info.)
Ahmanson money set up ES&S, the partner in crime with Diebold Voting Machines. These people stop at NOTHING to protect their turf.
Remember the story of David and Goliath? A few stones can find their mark and change the course of history. Sanity MUST prevail. Enslavement as a Theocratic Dictatorship or a free Republic? Our children's future is in our hands.
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» RE: I suggest adding Bible as a History Elective
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» RE: I suggest adding Bible as a History Elective
Posted by: Roni
» No Errors in the Bible?
Posted by: thirdmg
» RE: I suggest adding Bible as a History Elective
Posted by: paulaH
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Posted by: cobrajet on May 23, 2005 9:01 AM
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» RE: Lets remember, the theory of evolution is only a theory.
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Posted by: Greek Shadow on May 23, 2005 9:32 AM
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Posted by: Michaelmammal on May 23, 2005 9:34 AM
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What a lesson for the religious right. Stimulate religious discussion, and you end up with a multicultural orgy of deities, and possibly a more enlivened classroom atmosphere.
www.soulaquarium.net
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» RE: Have fun with evolution and creationist theories
Posted by: lamar
» Special treatment for male science teachers
Posted by: Gulliver
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Posted by: recj50 on May 23, 2005 9:36 AM
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» RE: Not just a theory
Posted by: Gulliver
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Posted by: Andros on May 23, 2005 9:40 AM
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I prefer the Hellenistic religion, you know, the one that brought the gods down to earth and stripped them of their clothes. I also like the extraterrestrial astonauts who started things on Earth. It's superior to the Bible version of events (things out of order in Genesis).
Of course, I don't expect the ID proponents to accept anything other than the Christian God's designs.... But, it's fun to confuse them with questions like, Is God Gay? and, Is God a Female?....
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Posted by: recj50 on May 23, 2005 9:48 AM
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Posted by: Reg on May 23, 2005 9:51 AM
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Posted by: kidsis on May 23, 2005 11:25 AM
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I mean, seriously, everything is just a theiroy until it can be absolutely proved. Science can never 100% prove evolution until it has something other than a few rocks and old bones, like a video shot by a time traveler. Creationists can never 100% prove that God created this planet in six 24hr days until the end of the world where everyone with know everything.
I agree that critical thinking is important to teach students, but you have to start eariler than High School in order for them to get it. Try Kindergarten so that they can learn something really valuable in addition to learning to skip and tie their shoes (that was my actual kindergarten curriculum).
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» RE: The whole problem is...
Posted by: jg
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Posted by: Sojourner on May 23, 2005 12:35 PM
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If argument is always the best test for truth, then we got a test to pass. It is not fun or interesting to argue with a closed mind, but even that's better than watching television.
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Posted by: mstenger on May 23, 2005 1:12 PM
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» RE: Goddess
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Posted by: Chappie on May 23, 2005 1:35 PM
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If that's not orgasm, what is it?
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Posted by: dstorey on May 23, 2005 1:47 PM
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Posted by: Donkeykong on May 23, 2005 2:27 PM
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That method, the scientific method is simple, s/he who can predict the future is more likely to be right than s/he who cannot. The prediction must be in writing and presented to others BEFORE the test is done AND the test is to be performed by SOMEONE ELSE and the test must clearly be a test that can be FALSIFIED if the theory is incorrect.
Then came Darwin. He made a theory regarding the past which can only be tested by discovering new fossil evidence or examining existing DNA evidence etc. His theory made "predictions" but only in a time scale that was inconsistent with other living scientists testing in the future.
But Darwin's theory was attractive, it lead to a general interest in biology then genetics etc. Some people called Darwin's theory the cornerstone of modern biology. Others called it a scientific fact. But no one could reproduce it. No one could test the basic tenants, that life came from non-life and that life evolved from a common ancestor. The life from non-life tenant is only obvious when you examine other causes of life and their likely subsequent involvement in the diversity of life relative to evolution. The life from common ancestor via fossil evidence is an inkblot test which can be interpreted as a picture with parts missing or as a different picture with parts missing or just as a big ole ink blot.
So in present time we have a choice. Do you believe in science or evolutionism? Should a theory be tested such that it is possible to fail the test if false? An example of a falsifiable test would be to assert that the mutation rate of evolution would have to remain defined over time as X mutations per generation with Y generations in Z time for a total XY mutations occurring in the Z time available. I point to the reader’s ignorance as to the values of X and Y as indirect proof that these numbers are not defined because "evolutionists" don't know or more accurately keep changing their numbers because they are proved wrong.
When "evolutionists" tell you that they are sure they are right but that they are not quit sure what it is that they are right about ask yourself.....is this science?
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» RE: Science and the anti science "Evolutionism"
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» RE: Science and the anti science "Evolutionism"
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» Enhancing your credibility
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Posted by: Chiron on May 23, 2005 4:07 PM
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» RE: The Case of the Female Orgasm
Posted by: mstenger
» RE: The Case of the Female Orgasm
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Posted by: froggeymonkey on May 23, 2005 4:50 PM
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» Well, that depends
Posted by: Gulliver
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Posted by: tdicks on May 23, 2005 5:44 PM
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To move backward now would be taking away our greatest minds and leaving us with a burden only they could have prevented or fulfilled if only they weren’t mislead, under funded, quieted, blacklisted, suppressed, crucified, and on and on. We have serious problems in our world that need serious and enlightened minds to resolve. Priests are fine in the church, religion is fine in the home, but in the rest of the world where everyone has to live together, science and reason are better to guide us.
Besides, children are vulnerable enough; to instill a prejudice of such conviction at such an early age could only have serious psychological side effects. Evolution is earth, reason, and fact based; I see it as the only method of teaching that cannot and will not divide us on theological lines. (Public Schools)
But hey, some people think it’s necessary to have division, and that’s their right.
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» RE: Wait, what century is this?
Posted by: mstenger
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Posted by: nemonemini on May 23, 2005 5:51 PM
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This disastrous situation should be blamed on Darwin fanatics, not Creationists. Noone forced Darwinists to suppress the problems in the theory, or forbade them from simply saying they didn't yet have a theory of evolution. Honesty would have disarmed fundamentalists at the first step.
The obstensible objective in the ID promo is to introduce balance in the class room. Very well, a friend of mine is Buddhist, why not bring in Buddhist views on evolution (?!).
Why couldn't Darwinists have done the job of self-critique right fifty years ago plus at the founding of the Synthesis (another hype machine job not unlike the ID movement) and trained a generation of competent biologists also competent to critique their own theory.
The ridiculous presumption in these discussions is we have to toe the line on Darwinism to be secular straights. The in crowd has to be either misinformed 'stupid smart' in the geek mode, or simply mendacious in public about baloney.
Why not simply acknowledge that the Darwin paradigm on natural selection is inadequate and get on with it. It won't be the end of the world. We didn't have to have this pointed out by the Bible Belt. Is it so much more difficult than rocket science to do the simple thing?
It is insulting to be force fed this Darwin propaganda as an antidote to the ID challenge. Everyone in the media is too intimidated by the party line to do any actual thinking, and organizations like NCSE act like an ideological mind control org.
It is possible to thumb one's nose at ID, toss Darwin's theory out the window, and survive the gesture. The result is a moment of clarity in the ocean of verbiage on both sides of the so-called debate.
John Landon
http://eonix.8m.com/etc/darw1.htm
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» Problems with "Darwinism"?
Posted by: Gulliver
» RE: Problems with "Darwinism"?
Posted by: nemonemini
» RE: Problems with "Darwinism"?
Posted by: Samantha Vimes
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Posted by: taub on May 23, 2005 7:37 PM
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As someone who teaches evolution, I will say that there has been a change, with more vocal fundamentalist students than previously. However, I make it clear that I teach science, not religion, and will only discuss scientific explanations for natural phenomena. Intelligent design is a religious idea, not a scientific one and thus has no place in a science classroom. Evolution is a fundamental unifying principle in biology. Without it, you really can't account for such current problems as multi-drug resistant microbes.
I suggest the author try to teach some high school students for a few weeks, and I think his ideas will change.
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» RE: biology teacher
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» RE: biology teacher
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Posted by: Michiganman on May 23, 2005 7:53 PM
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Posted by: justasking on May 23, 2005 8:28 PM
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Did you know that we recently had a primary election where all the "meddling" school board members that backed this measure have been voted back in. We'll find out in November what the people of Dover want for their kids.
It seems to me that the only people meddling in this are all the folks whose kids don't attend this school district trying to force their views on the local community.
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» RE: Just Asking
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» RE: Just Asking
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» RE: Just Asking - Just Explaining
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» School Board Elections Can Be Anti-democratic
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» RE: Just Asking
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Posted by: warbi on May 23, 2005 11:14 PM
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Posted by: fmiller on May 24, 2005 1:13 AM
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Posted by: LMNOP on May 24, 2005 4:49 AM
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Then, after ten minutes into day one, we switch over to scientific theory. The rest of the school year would be needed to describing what the theory of evolution by natural selection entails, and to present a SMALL FRACTION of the evidence for it. Let the children decide for themselves. That sounds fair and balanced to me.
Then, to further showcase the relative validity of the two methods of scholarship, i.e., the scientific method and received 'wisdom', we can compare the fruits of science (medicine, agricultural technology, space travel, electricity, etc.) and dogma (holy wars, witch burnings, Klan lynchings, 9-11, the Spanish Inquisition, etc.).
We report, you decide. What do you think?
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» Dont forget about his noodly appendages
Posted by: LMNOP
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Posted by: Gulliver on May 24, 2005 9:15 AM
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That disclaimer aside, the all too common idea from pro-evolution commentators that our teachers can continue to thwart the intentions of the fundies by teaching real science and exposing the delusions and fallacies of the creationists and their ilk is simply naive. (And may I just say that this article is either tongue in cheek—a crucial point lost on many of these commenters, I shudder to note—or else its author clearly could use some good education himself. Van Daniken? You must be joking!) There are thousands of teachers of science classes in America's schools who are as ignorant of the scientific method as most of their students, who couldn't tell the difference between a theory and a fantasy if it hit them upside the head. And a hell of a lot of them are fundies themselves who'll jump at the chance to brainwash the kiddies and condemn that nasty heretic Darwin as the Satan's spawn that he was.
That's why creationism infiltrating the classroom is more serious than the bad joke that it seems. Rigorous standards are necessary in science curricula especially to prevent, as much as is possible, those teachers who are themselves ignorant of science from perpetuating their ignorance by passing it on to our children. Science teachers who actually understand science will probably deal with the ID controversy a bit anyhow if only to illustrate the concepts of scientific rationalism. They don't need some troglodyte school board demanding that they teach it as "an alternative theory" when it clearly doesn't even rise to the mediocre state of a hypothesis.
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Posted by: nakis on May 24, 2005 12:40 PM
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I don't need science to prove that God exists. But I do need sound science to help humanity in its existance. Training children in accepting something that is clearly not scientifically proveable is a danger to all of humanity. You will have people like we have in our government trying to pass laws based upon faith and not proveable and repeatable facts. You read about this daily in the Bush adminstrations religiously flawed policies on AIDS, global warming, foriegn policy.... .
I am one of those Christains who has a tremendous faith in God and Jesus but recognizes that creationism is a religious fantasy. I do not doubt that our Creator very likely played a factor in the developement of homosapiens. That God did create the universe and it progress by the laws of physics that God created. Maybe aliens did seed the world and played with our evolution. Far fetched but possible. But nothing, fact or fiction makes the fact that evolution does exist. It is something that is valid, proven and is hard science. Until we figure a more accurate theory. Which may prove outside influence (God). But till then, science should be taught in science class. Creationism is based upon faith, not reason. It has no place is the science class. Classes about religion? Sure. But not passed off as factual science.
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Posted by: beata on May 24, 2005 4:06 PM
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Posted by: Aureantes on May 24, 2005 11:29 PM
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Personally, I believe in emanation, not creation--with a direction and purpose, yes, but not arbitrary, and certainly not dropping in a species from above to have dominion over the earth and its creatures. Biological domination, apart from environmental circumstance, takes intelligence on the inside of a creature, not from the outside via deus ex machina.
In short, they're afraid of not being the superior species, or type, or culture. Creationists fear for their existence, because they have reduced it themselves to such an absolute of domination or utter helplessness, irrelevance in the scheme of things. Therefore they must bolster their delusions and try to force others to believe them as well. If not, they just might become...well, extinct. >:)
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Posted by: howardadoughty on May 25, 2005 2:25 AM
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It remains a mystery to those of us in other countries that the US - arguably among the most scientifically advanced countries on Earth - is not still bogged down in this debate.
What is worse, Christian fundamentalists (like Islamic fundamentalists elsewhere) seem to be growing in influence.
It would be impertinent of me to lecture Americans on the best way to deal with this problem, but I do think it is important to emphasize that it is not just a cultural anomaly (a kind of curious atavistic "meme") that is at issue.
Creationism (in whatever guise) is an integral part of the Christian right's agenda. It must be regarded as a profound political issue. How much it can be confronted through the courts, through the electoral process or through public education - broadly defined - is not something I can address with authority.
I do, however, believe this: limiting resistance to "having fun" in the classroom by exposing the hollowness of creationist arguments is too tame and too lame. As one previous commentator implied, getting teachers to aknowledge the legitimacy of the debate (no matter what is said) is only the first step. Once accepted in the science classroom, religious precepts will only become harder to resist.
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Posted by: thevanishedfrontier on May 25, 2005 6:59 AM
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Anyway, great good natured article and much enjoyable discussion.
What we have going on in this country currently is usually called a trend towards conservatism, but I wonder if this is so accurate. It is perhaps more a trend towards an official orthodoxy. Until now, much orthodoxy was unofficial and much of what was official was not orthodox. That allowed some cracks in the system during our formative years for free-thinking to find its way in/out.
I remember in the 50's that school science textbooks still made a point to debunk the theory that the continents were drifting. 'Official' science has it's suppressive edge just as official religion does.
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Posted by: Reinform.org on May 25, 2005 7:02 AM
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» RE: God Created Evolution
Posted by: thevanishedfrontier
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Posted by: kamfletch on May 25, 2005 11:12 AM
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Just that level of confusion on Mr. Morris' part leads me to believe that he knows squat about ID, and frankly, blasting anything to bits without knowing something about it seems a little Republican in tone to me -- I would have expected better from you and your writers. It's the Bushies who ride off to war on the basis of lies, half-truths, misinformation, and pure bull-headed ignorance. You should be ashamed.
The smart part of Intelligent Design is that it looks at a complex universe, and wonders, given a finite universe, where the laws of physics came from, why then the universe did anything at all rather than just popping into existence in a single blinding flash? Why is there something rather than nothing? Why is there anything at all?
The answer is that the universe arrived with the laws of physics, and those laws compelled the universe to organize itself on the way from a highly-ordered beginning to a less-ordered right now. The universe, according to Complexity Theory, self-organizes, and if Stephen Jay Gould is right (as I think he is) and Richard Dawkins is a dork (ditto), Complexity, rather than natural selection and random mutation, is and always has been the motor driving evolution with intent and specificity, organisms and bio-communities solving and surviving problems of environmental challenge.
What are the problems the ID folks have? They don't have a mechanism to drive the compulsion to order. Both ID and evolution need a motor, a mechanism. Complexity Theory, (which will be "the science of the 21st century", according to Stephen Hawking), is that motor. Biologists get to keep evolution, ID-ers have to accept it. Biologists have to accept a scientific process that solves environmental problems organismically and as communities with intent and specificity as designed, perhaps, as astronomer and atheist Sir Fred Hoyle called it, by "a super-intellect that has monkeyed with the physics". ID-ers get to have an organizing entity that seems to have popped a universe full of laws and creativity into existence out of absolutely nothing and with no laws of nature yet in existence to drive its arrival. It was, by definition, supernatural, since nature didn't exist yet. Maybe we can even call it God.
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Posted by: guychick on May 23, 2005 12:14 AM
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» RE: the premise of Intelligent design
Posted by: warpig
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Posted by: dennyduke@earthlink.net on May 23, 2005 12:39 AM
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I've been thinking about this for awhile: Why not start “Intro to Science” with a basic definition of what a scientific theory is, and as an exercise, the class examines two theories of “How We Got Here” or some neutral title. Then simply state each theory, validate it as a theorem. Then see how each explains the evidence.
Bring in issues like provability criteria, problems with proving a negative – maybe even bring in how this relates not only to the absurdity of “Prove God Don’t Exist” as well as the problem with presumption of guilt, where you’re required to prove a negative – I didn’t do that. (The underlying social and moral issues).
Give them exactly what they claim to be asking for: teach creationism alongside evolution, but as a comparative analysis, something a lot of these ninnies probably don't even have a clue about which is real basic science, just like the double-blind experiment. Go for the throat - teach science and teach these gangsters a lesson.
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Posted by: sapatatanka on May 23, 2005 1:18 AM
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the guy with the six-day creation job cannot possibly have been a christian god. Check out the chronology.
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» RE: Christian creator?
Posted by: Bubba
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Posted by: dearkitty on May 23, 2005 3:00 AM
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» RE: More on creationism controversy
Posted by: warpig
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Posted by: PeterPeter on May 23, 2005 5:48 AM
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Posted by: nosylae on May 23, 2005 6:08 AM
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Posted by: rickcreswell@yahoo.com on May 23, 2005 6:26 AM
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The Moody science film about trees states that guttation is reponsible for getting water from roots to leaves, ignoring the decades-old research on evapotranspiration. I think they like "facts" that stay the same wether true or not.
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Posted by: 42Years on May 23, 2005 6:36 AM
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Posted by: silkreed on May 23, 2005 6:35 AM
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For a wonderful sociopolitical commentary see the article by Albert A. Bartlett, 1996, "The New Flat Earth Society."
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» RE: Flat Earth
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» RE: Flat Earth
Posted by: Rod in 83706
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Posted by: doctordave on May 23, 2005 6:42 AM
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Here are a couple of questions that help me think about the issue of intelligent design. Why don't we (humans or other animals) have wheels? The wheel does not seem to be a concept beyond the comprehension of most human designers who might claim to be intleligent. Wheels are great energy savers and would seem to have been well suited for at least some earth's various terrains.
Many cognitive scientists suggest that the mind is what the brain does. It would seem that any consideration of intelligent design would beg us to consider carefully the designer's brain. There is ample evidence that the human mind has numerous inadequacies (demonstrated by optical illusions, its susceptibility to numerous logical inconsistencies, and its great difficulty with abstraction). Does the mind that designed our brains (presumably "in its image") have these same flaws? If not, what was the point of afflicting us with these inadequacies? If it does have the same inadequacies, is it also plagued by prejudice, stereotyping, greed, etc?
This sounds like a great way to engage a class. Cheers!
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» RE: intelligent design (i.e., Little Green Men)
Posted by: recj50
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Posted by: gramps on May 23, 2005 7:13 AM
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Christ said that the Kingdom of God was like a farmer sowing seeds, some fall on stones, some are blown away by the wind, and some are eaten by birds; but those that fall on good soil will grow.
This is as good an explanation of natural selection as one could ask for.
Humans create with their hands and tend to think manually.
Their God's are anthropomorphic. They can not imagine a God without the need of hands that has eternity to create in.
Nor do they recognize themselves as creations of God that can build computers and even fabricate from the gene technology, and travel in outer space.
Why should we compromise with ignorance and stupidity in our schools?
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Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver on May 23, 2005 7:39 AM
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Biological Exuberance
Bruce Bagemihl, PhD -1999
0-213-19239-8
591.562 B144
In correction to your particular statement I offer these two quotations:
There is a long and sordid history of statement of human uniqueness. Over the years, I have read that humans are the only creatures that laugh, that kill other members of their own species, that lie, that exhibit female orgasm, or that kill their own young. Every one of these never-never-land statements is now known to be false. To this list must now be added the statement that humans are the only species that exhibit "true" homosexuality. Does anyone ever state that we alone exhibit true heterosexuality?
--James Weinrich, biologist, quoted in Biological Exuberance, pg 45-46
As we have seen, one way that zoologist have tried to avoid classifying same-sex activity as "homosexuality" is by using terminology and behavioral categories that deny it is sexual activity at all. This approach also extends to the intrpretations, explanations, and "functions" attributed to same-sex behavior, even when it involves the most overt and explicit of activities. Astounding as it sounds, a number of scientists have actually argued that when a femal Bonobo wraps her legs around another
female, rubbing her own clitoris against her partner's while emitting screams of enjoyment, this is actually "greeting" behavior, or "tension-regulation" behavior, or "social-bonding", or "food-exchange" behavior -- almost anything, it seems, besides pleasurable sexual behavior.
--Bruce Bagemihl, Biological Exuberance, pg 106
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» RE: Minor Correction
Posted by: Violetflame11
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Posted by: owlbear1 on May 23, 2005 7:53 AM
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It has only ONE theorem (sort of) , NO reproducible experiments, and demands that several other branches of science MUST be completely ignored(Geology, Physics, Anthropology, Paleontology) in order for it to work.
The course should take about an hour to complete since students will have NOTHING to study.
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Posted by: thirdmg on May 23, 2005 8:29 AM
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But a few serious points:
1. Homosexual behavior is common throughout the animal kingdom, not just in humans. Remember the recent news stories about the gay penguins in the German zoo? Obviously, such behavior can't be detrimental to the general survival of a species or it would be quickly weeded out. It might even play a clear survival purpose, such as population control. And, since we humans are destroying the environment primarily through over-population, wouldn't support for gays rights and gay marriage be good survival and environmental policy?
2. While theology may be defined as a body of conjecture (meaning that it's anyone's guess), the physical sciences are usually defined as bodies of knowledge. The reasons for the difference are based on testability and feedback. In science, theories are more or less believable based on either corroborating or contradicting data. Theology and other forms of human knowledge lack testability. That's why we turn to science and not theology for creating technologies to improve our living conditions. And, by the way, evidence for evolution as fact is increasingly confirmed within several fields of scientific investigation.
3. Christian fundamentalist creationists in America generally deny and blind themselves to the fact that belief in Darwinian evolution does not require atheistic belief. They ignore the fact that millions of religionists believe in evolution. They even ignore the fact that Darwin himself was not an atheist. The reason for ignoring these facts is that they have no means of bridging the contradiction between a literal interpretation of the Bible's special creation of plants, animals and humans, as described in Genesis, and the evolutionary concept of the development of species over long periods of time. Creationists in America try to force data to fit their beliefs rather than adjusting their beliefs to fit the data. That's a form of intellectual dishonesty, and its the major reason why the debate continues decade after decade, but only in America.
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» Let's beat them at their own game!
Posted by: Andros
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Posted by: becky141 on May 23, 2005 8:54 AM
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I laughed at the doctrine of "inerrancy", the belief that there are no errors in the Bible. Anybody who knows the history of the Bible knows that it is full of errors. Pure, provable fact. A simple disection of Genesis reveals two creation stories that contradict each other. As for the "literal truth", this is a history of a bunch of Arab Jews (no disrespect intended) over a 5,000 year period. When you study the Bible as History, you aren't inclined to worship lifted phrases as particularly instructive for everyday life.
Maybe that's the only way to beat this gang of religious theocrats at their own game. The danger is that the courses are taken over by indoctrinated Fundamentalists who do not allow critical thinking. A PH.D. Minister, the School Guidance Counselor, who wrote a book declaring that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, took over the Bible Classes when my son took them. For a free thinker, it was a disastrous experience.
That's the danger of letting Intelligent Design slip through the cracks as Science. You'll get a few creative teachers, and quite a few "party line" fundamentalists who will botch it. Our Youth will suffer. Better to stop these thugs ahead of time, and insist that sanity prevail. It is critical to understand that True Believers have one very narrow, very limited concept of "truth" and no amount of facts can change their minds.
Remember, the leaders of the Religious Right movement came from the ranks of rabid anti-communitist John Birchers. Religion is the "enforcer" of the white male patriarchy as the divine rule of the masses. The money of the Scaifes and Ahmanson's paid for the intense infiltration of every religious denomination in America. (Google Institute for Religion and Democracy for more info.)
Ahmanson money set up ES&S, the partner in crime with Diebold Voting Machines. These people stop at NOTHING to protect their turf.
Remember the story of David and Goliath? A few stones can find their mark and change the course of history. Sanity MUST prevail. Enslavement as a Theocratic Dictatorship or a free Republic? Our children's future is in our hands.
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» RE: I suggest adding Bible as a History Elective
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» RE: I suggest adding Bible as a History Elective
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» No Errors in the Bible?
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» RE: I suggest adding Bible as a History Elective
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Posted by: cobrajet on May 23, 2005 9:01 AM
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» RE: Lets remember, the theory of evolution is only a theory.
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» Josh McDowell, the Budweiser of crazies
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Posted by: Greek Shadow on May 23, 2005 9:32 AM
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Posted by: Michaelmammal on May 23, 2005 9:34 AM
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What a lesson for the religious right. Stimulate religious discussion, and you end up with a multicultural orgy of deities, and possibly a more enlivened classroom atmosphere.
www.soulaquarium.net
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» RE: Have fun with evolution and creationist theories
Posted by: lamar
» Special treatment for male science teachers
Posted by: Gulliver
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Posted by: recj50 on May 23, 2005 9:36 AM
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» RE: Not just a theory
Posted by: Gulliver
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Posted by: Andros on May 23, 2005 9:40 AM
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I prefer the Hellenistic religion, you know, the one that brought the gods down to earth and stripped them of their clothes. I also like the extraterrestrial astonauts who started things on Earth. It's superior to the Bible version of events (things out of order in Genesis).
Of course, I don't expect the ID proponents to accept anything other than the Christian God's designs.... But, it's fun to confuse them with questions like, Is God Gay? and, Is God a Female?....
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Posted by: recj50 on May 23, 2005 9:48 AM
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Posted by: Reg on May 23, 2005 9:51 AM
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Posted by: kidsis on May 23, 2005 11:25 AM
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I mean, seriously, everything is just a theiroy until it can be absolutely proved. Science can never 100% prove evolution until it has something other than a few rocks and old bones, like a video shot by a time traveler. Creationists can never 100% prove that God created this planet in six 24hr days until the end of the world where everyone with know everything.
I agree that critical thinking is important to teach students, but you have to start eariler than High School in order for them to get it. Try Kindergarten so that they can learn something really valuable in addition to learning to skip and tie their shoes (that was my actual kindergarten curriculum).
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» RE: The whole problem is...
Posted by: jg
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Posted by: Sojourner on May 23, 2005 12:35 PM
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If argument is always the best test for truth, then we got a test to pass. It is not fun or interesting to argue with a closed mind, but even that's better than watching television.
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Posted by: mstenger on May 23, 2005 1:12 PM
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» RE: Goddess
Posted by: Chappie
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Posted by: Chappie on May 23, 2005 1:35 PM
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If that's not orgasm, what is it?
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Posted by: dstorey on May 23, 2005 1:47 PM
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Posted by: Donkeykong on May 23, 2005 2:27 PM
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That method, the scientific method is simple, s/he who can predict the future is more likely to be right than s/he who cannot. The prediction must be in writing and presented to others BEFORE the test is done AND the test is to be performed by SOMEONE ELSE and the test must clearly be a test that can be FALSIFIED if the theory is incorrect.
Then came Darwin. He made a theory regarding the past which can only be tested by discovering new fossil evidence or examining existing DNA evidence etc. His theory made "predictions" but only in a time scale that was inconsistent with other living scientists testing in the future.
But Darwin's theory was attractive, it lead to a general interest in biology then genetics etc. Some people called Darwin's theory the cornerstone of modern biology. Others called it a scientific fact. But no one could reproduce it. No one could test the basic tenants, that life came from non-life and that life evolved from a common ancestor. The life from non-life tenant is only obvious when you examine other causes of life and their likely subsequent involvement in the diversity of life relative to evolution. The life from common ancestor via fossil evidence is an inkblot test which can be interpreted as a picture with parts missing or as a different picture with parts missing or just as a big ole ink blot.
So in present time we have a choice. Do you believe in science or evolutionism? Should a theory be tested such that it is possible to fail the test if false? An example of a falsifiable test would be to assert that the mutation rate of evolution would have to remain defined over time as X mutations per generation with Y generations in Z time for a total XY mutations occurring in the Z time available. I point to the reader’s ignorance as to the values of X and Y as indirect proof that these numbers are not defined because "evolutionists" don't know or more accurately keep changing their numbers because they are proved wrong.
When "evolutionists" tell you that they are sure they are right but that they are not quit sure what it is that they are right about ask yourself.....is this science?
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» RE: Science and the anti science "Evolutionism"
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Posted by: Chiron on May 23, 2005 4:07 PM
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Posted by: froggeymonkey on May 23, 2005 4:50 PM
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» Well, that depends
Posted by: Gulliver
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Posted by: tdicks on May 23, 2005 5:44 PM
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To move backward now would be taking away our greatest minds and leaving us with a burden only they could have prevented or fulfilled if only they weren’t mislead, under funded, quieted, blacklisted, suppressed, crucified, and on and on. We have serious problems in our world that need serious and enlightened minds to resolve. Priests are fine in the church, religion is fine in the home, but in the rest of the world where everyone has to live together, science and reason are better to guide us.
Besides, children are vulnerable enough; to instill a prejudice of such conviction at such an early age could only have serious psychological side effects. Evolution is earth, reason, and fact based; I see it as the only method of teaching that cannot and will not divide us on theological lines. (Public Schools)
But hey, some people think it’s necessary to have division, and that’s their right.
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» RE: Wait, what century is this?
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Posted by: nemonemini on May 23, 2005 5:51 PM
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This disastrous situation should be blamed on Darwin fanatics, not Creationists. Noone forced Darwinists to suppress the problems in the theory, or forbade them from simply saying they didn't yet have a theory of evolution. Honesty would have disarmed fundamentalists at the first step.
The obstensible objective in the ID promo is to introduce balance in the class room. Very well, a friend of mine is Buddhist, why not bring in Buddhist views on evolution (?!).
Why couldn't Darwinists have done the job of self-critique right fifty years ago plus at the founding of the Synthesis (another hype machine job not unlike the ID movement) and trained a generation of competent biologists also competent to critique their own theory.
The ridiculous presumption in these discussions is we have to toe the line on Darwinism to be secular straights. The in crowd has to be either misinformed 'stupid smart' in the geek mode, or simply mendacious in public about baloney.
Why not simply acknowledge that the Darwin paradigm on natural selection is inadequate and get on with it. It won't be the end of the world. We didn't have to have this pointed out by the Bible Belt. Is it so much more difficult than rocket science to do the simple thing?
It is insulting to be force fed this Darwin propaganda as an antidote to the ID challenge. Everyone in the media is too intimidated by the party line to do any actual thinking, and organizations like NCSE act like an ideological mind control org.
It is possible to thumb one's nose at ID, toss Darwin's theory out the window, and survive the gesture. The result is a moment of clarity in the ocean of verbiage on both sides of the so-called debate.
John Landon
http://eonix.8m.com/etc/darw1.htm
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» Problems with "Darwinism"?
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Posted by: taub on May 23, 2005 7:37 PM
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As someone who teaches evolution, I will say that there has been a change, with more vocal fundamentalist students than previously. However, I make it clear that I teach science, not religion, and will only discuss scientific explanations for natural phenomena. Intelligent design is a religious idea, not a scientific one and thus has no place in a science classroom. Evolution is a fundamental unifying principle in biology. Without it, you really can't account for such current problems as multi-drug resistant microbes.
I suggest the author try to teach some high school students for a few weeks, and I think his ideas will change.
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Posted by: Michiganman on May 23, 2005 7:53 PM
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Posted by: justasking on May 23, 2005 8:28 PM
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Did you know that we recently had a primary election where all the "meddling" school board members that backed this measure have been voted back in. We'll find out in November what the people of Dover want for their kids.
It seems to me that the only people meddling in this are all the folks whose kids don't attend this school district trying to force their views on the local community.
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Posted by: warbi on May 23, 2005 11:14 PM
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Posted by: fmiller on May 24, 2005 1:13 AM
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Posted by: LMNOP on May 24, 2005 4:49 AM
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Then, after ten minutes into day one, we switch over to scientific theory. The rest of the school year would be needed to describing what the theory of evolution by natural selection entails, and to present a SMALL FRACTION of the evidence for it. Let the children decide for themselves. That sounds fair and balanced to me.
Then, to further showcase the relative validity of the two methods of scholarship, i.e., the scientific method and received 'wisdom', we can compare the fruits of science (medicine, agricultural technology, space travel, electricity, etc.) and dogma (holy wars, witch burnings, Klan lynchings, 9-11, the Spanish Inquisition, etc.).
We report, you decide. What do you think?
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» Dont forget about his noodly appendages
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Posted by: Gulliver on May 24, 2005 9:15 AM
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That disclaimer aside, the all too common idea from pro-evolution commentators that our teachers can continue to thwart the intentions of the fundies by teaching real science and exposing the delusions and fallacies of the creationists and their ilk is simply naive. (And may I just say that this article is either tongue in cheek—a crucial point lost on many of these commenters, I shudder to note—or else its author clearly could use some good education himself. Van Daniken? You must be joking!) There are thousands of teachers of science classes in America's schools who are as ignorant of the scientific method as most of their students, who couldn't tell the difference between a theory and a fantasy if it hit them upside the head. And a hell of a lot of them are fundies themselves who'll jump at the chance to brainwash the kiddies and condemn that nasty heretic Darwin as the Satan's spawn that he was.
That's why creationism infiltrating the classroom is more serious than the bad joke that it seems. Rigorous standards are necessary in science curricula especially to prevent, as much as is possible, those teachers who are themselves ignorant of science from perpetuating their ignorance by passing it on to our children. Science teachers who actually understand science will probably deal with the ID controversy a bit anyhow if only to illustrate the concepts of scientific rationalism. They don't need some troglodyte school board demanding that they teach it as "an alternative theory" when it clearly doesn't even rise to the mediocre state of a hypothesis.
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Posted by: nakis on May 24, 2005 12:40 PM
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I don't need science to prove that God exists. But I do need sound science to help humanity in its existance. Training children in accepting something that is clearly not scientifically proveable is a danger to all of humanity. You will have people like we have in our government trying to pass laws based upon faith and not proveable and repeatable facts. You read about this daily in the Bush adminstrations religiously flawed policies on AIDS, global warming, foriegn policy.... .
I am one of those Christains who has a tremendous faith in God and Jesus but recognizes that creationism is a religious fantasy. I do not doubt that our Creator very likely played a factor in the developement of homosapiens. That God did create the universe and it progress by the laws of physics that God created. Maybe aliens did seed the world and played with our evolution. Far fetched but possible. But nothing, fact or fiction makes the fact that evolution does exist. It is something that is valid, proven and is hard science. Until we figure a more accurate theory. Which may prove outside influence (God). But till then, science should be taught in science class. Creationism is based upon faith, not reason. It has no place is the science class. Classes about religion? Sure. But not passed off as factual science.
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Posted by: beata on May 24, 2005 4:06 PM
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Posted by: Aureantes on May 24, 2005 11:29 PM
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Personally, I believe in emanation, not creation--with a direction and purpose, yes, but not arbitrary, and certainly not dropping in a species from above to have dominion over the earth and its creatures. Biological domination, apart from environmental circumstance, takes intelligence on the inside of a creature, not from the outside via deus ex machina.
In short, they're afraid of not being the superior species, or type, or culture. Creationists fear for their existence, because they have reduced it themselves to such an absolute of domination or utter helplessness, irrelevance in the scheme of things. Therefore they must bolster their delusions and try to force others to believe them as well. If not, they just might become...well, extinct. >:)
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Posted by: howardadoughty on May 25, 2005 2:25 AM
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It remains a mystery to those of us in other countries that the US - arguably among the most scientifically advanced countries on Earth - is not still bogged down in this debate.
What is worse, Christian fundamentalists (like Islamic fundamentalists elsewhere) seem to be growing in influence.
It would be impertinent of me to lecture Americans on the best way to deal with this problem, but I do think it is important to emphasize that it is not just a cultural anomaly (a kind of curious atavistic "meme") that is at issue.
Creationism (in whatever guise) is an integral part of the Christian right's agenda. It must be regarded as a profound political issue. How much it can be confronted through the courts, through the electoral process or through public education - broadly defined - is not something I can address with authority.
I do, however, believe this: limiting resistance to "having fun" in the classroom by exposing the hollowness of creationist arguments is too tame and too lame. As one previous commentator implied, getting teachers to aknowledge the legitimacy of the debate (no matter what is said) is only the first step. Once accepted in the science classroom, religious precepts will only become harder to resist.
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Posted by: thevanishedfrontier on May 25, 2005 6:59 AM
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Anyway, great good natured article and much enjoyable discussion.
What we have going on in this country currently is usually called a trend towards conservatism, but I wonder if this is so accurate. It is perhaps more a trend towards an official orthodoxy. Until now, much orthodoxy was unofficial and much of what was official was not orthodox. That allowed some cracks in the system during our formative years for free-thinking to find its way in/out.
I remember in the 50's that school science textbooks still made a point to debunk the theory that the continents were drifting. 'Official' science has it's suppressive edge just as official religion does.
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Posted by: Reinform.org on May 25, 2005 7:02 AM
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» RE: God Created Evolution
Posted by: thevanishedfrontier
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Posted by: kamfletch on May 25, 2005 11:12 AM
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Just that level of confusion on Mr. Morris' part leads me to believe that he knows squat about ID, and frankly, blasting anything to bits without knowing something about it seems a little Republican in tone to me -- I would have expected better from you and your writers. It's the Bushies who ride off to war on the basis of lies, half-truths, misinformation, and pure bull-headed ignorance. You should be ashamed.
The smart part of Intelligent Design is that it looks at a complex universe, and wonders, given a finite universe, where the laws of physics came from, why then the universe did anything at all rather than just popping into existence in a single blinding flash? Why is there something rather than nothing? Why is there anything at all?
The answer is that the universe arrived with the laws of physics, and those laws compelled the universe to organize itself on the way from a highly-ordered beginning to a less-ordered right now. The universe, according to Complexity Theory, self-organizes, and if Stephen Jay Gould is right (as I think he is) and Richard Dawkins is a dork (ditto), Complexity, rather than natural selection and random mutation, is and always has been the motor driving evolution with intent and specificity, organisms and bio-communities solving and surviving problems of environmental challenge.
What are the problems the ID folks have? They don't have a mechanism to drive the compulsion to order. Both ID and evolution need a motor, a mechanism. Complexity Theory, (which will be "the science of the 21st century", according to Stephen Hawking), is that motor. Biologists get to keep evolution, ID-ers have to accept it. Biologists have to accept a scientific process that solves environmental problems organismically and as communities with intent and specificity as designed, perhaps, as astronomer and atheist Sir Fred Hoyle called it, by "a super-intellect that has monkeyed with the physics". ID-ers get to have an organizing entity that seems to have popped a universe full of laws and creativity into existence out of absolutely nothing and with no laws of nature yet in existence to drive its arrival. It was, by definition, supernatural, since nature didn't exist yet. Maybe we can even call it God.
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