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The Culture of Life Top Ten

By Michael Blanding, AlterNet. Posted April 4, 2005.


At minimum, a true "culture of life" would support these ten positions.
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In the wake of the Terri Schiavo case, we've been hearing a lot about the so-called "culture of life." Christian conservatives use the term to refer to God's wish that we preserve all human lives, especially those more vulnerable than our own. In practice, however, it applies to a surprisingly stingy range of concerns: abortion, euthanasia, and stem cell research.

Conservatives have been very effective in past years in coming up with emotionally-laden phrases that are at best disingenuous and at worst outright lies. Witness "weapons of mass destruction," "partial birth abortion," "ownership society," and "freedom on the march." But their newest buzzphrase is perhaps the most galling.

Consider the opposite: who in their right minds would be on record supporting a "culture of death"? Well, the Nazis, that's who, say culture-of-lifers, and if you disagree with them on their key issues, you might as well sign up for the Hitler Youth. Just as incredible is their invocation of the 14th Amendment. Initially passed to support the rights of freed slaves after the Civil War, culture-of-lifers have expanded its protection of "life, liberty, [and] property" outwards to fetuses and women in persistent vegetative states. Don't agree? Well, then perhaps you should start shopping around for a plantation and some cotton fields as well.

The problem with the "culture of life" argument is that, like any of these phrases, its vagueness allows you to define it however you want. Is it any coincidence that its application happens to gel with the core issues of those who created it? Rather than dismiss the argument, however, progressives should hold culture-of-lifers to their word.

At minimum, a true "culture of life" would support the following ten positions:

1. Withdraw the Troops

More than 1,500 U.S. soldiers have been killed in Iraq, along with tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians (some estimates are as high as 100,000.) Meanwhile, we're hunkering down building long-term military bases and sending more troops. How many more soldiers have to die before we set a timetable for bringing them home?

2. Stop the Death Penalty

Fifty-nine prisoners were executed last year, 23 of them in Texas alone. Yet study after study has shown the death penalty to be unequally applied by race, and hundreds of inmates have been found innocent at the eleventh hour. If we are all created in God's image, then it is up to God, not us, to deal the ultimate in punishment.

3. Pass Effective Gun Control Laws

More than 80 Americans are killed by firearms each day. Yet Congress has made it easier for criminals to get their hands on weapons -- most recently with the repeal of the assault weapons ban -- instead of following the lead of states like Massachusetts and New York, which have passed tougher laws and decreased handgun deaths.

4. Fund Social Services

Hundreds of homeless people, many of them war veterans, die on the streets each year because they can't gain access to basic services such as housing and health care. A truly compassionate person would fight against Bush's mean-spirited budget that cuts Medicaid benefits, veterans‚ health care, community services block grants, and other life-saving programs in favor of tax cuts for the rich.


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Michael Blanding is a freelance writer living in Boston. Read more of his work at www.michaelblanding.com.

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Global Warming tied to S.E. Asian Tsunami?
Posted by: rue on Apr 4, 2005 1:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree whole heartedly that we need to hold the conservatives to their words: A "culture of life" indeed includes all of the things mentioned in this article. However, how are global warming and greenhouse gasses related to the tradgedy that took place in in the Indian Ocean last December. If there is a connection to the deaths that happened after the earthquake and tsunami, please be explicit. Otherwise, our arguments (which the conservatives already ignore) will lose credibility.

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OK - in order
Posted by: Cybernalt on Apr 4, 2005 3:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. Withdraw the Troops __

I agree we should never have gone, but we need to be careful: There are times when it is better to sacrifice a few to save the many, WWII being a pretty good example. My Caveat / solution would be this: ALL UNDER 30 YEAR-OLD RELATIVES OF BOTH HOUSES OF CONGRESS AND THE ADMINSTRATION AND THE TOP FEW LAYERS OF THE PENTAGON MUST FIRST BE GIVEN MARCHING ORDERS BEFORE AND DECLARATION OF WAR IS
ALLOW. The theory is - if it's that important, then put your own children where you're asking others to put theirs.

__ 2. Stop the Death Penalty __

I've heard it's actually cheaper to keep a baddy in jail for life (parole not allowed) than to pay for the required appeals. Make "Stop the Death Penalty" a cost-cutting concept.

__ 3. Pass Effective Gun Control Laws__

Amen - but not until I buy my own UZI and 50 Caliber (just kidding!)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: OK - in order Posted by: cneel
» RE: OK - in order Posted by: Cybernalt
» RE: OK - in order Posted by: elmysterio
» RE: OK - in order Posted by: JT
» RE: RE: OK - in order Posted by: lrider30
» RE: RE: RE: OK - in order Posted by: lrider30
» RE: OK - in order Posted by: holojojo
Part 2
Posted by: Cybernalt on Apr 4, 2005 3:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
__ 4. Fund Social Services __

There is an argument to be made about welfare type systems perpetuating poorness, but in general the separation of rich and poor is truly sinful.

__ 5. Create Universal Health Care for Children __

Again - make it a cost-cutting idea. A great example is pre-natal care: It is well known that a stitch in time saves nine. ALSO - The current situations with the Pharmacy companies needs serious looking into.

__ 6. Research Alternative Energy__

We cna do more, but the reality (sorry, my lefty friends) is that wind and solar power have limited application. Conservation is the only workable idea, and it does the greenhouse gas thing too. Call me a Righty, but it seems to me we should be using Middle East oil exclusively - save what we have here for the next millenium, when it will be truly valuable.

__ 7. Investigate Prisoner Abuses__

Re-Read 1984 - when

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» RE: Part 2 Posted by: norma
» CHILL, Norma Posted by: Cybernalt
» RE: Part 2 Posted by: Andie927
» RE: RE: Part 2 Posted by: Danielhh
» RE: Part 2 Posted by: elmysterio
» RE: Part 2 Posted by: holojojo
» RE: Part 2 Posted by: Cybernalt
» RE: Part 2 Posted by: holojojo
Final Part
Posted by: Cybernalt on Apr 4, 2005 3:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
__ 8. Support AIDS Clinics Abroad__

Amen

__ 9. Implement a Fair Guestworker Program__

I'm not to keen on this. I'd rather a combination of things like a stiff income tax curve (to discourage huge salaries) plus real penalties for hiring illegal workers to simply pay folks living wages for fair work. Open the boarders to visit, but not to lower our workers. BTW - this helps social security and funds medical cares, etc., as well, be raising salaries for most of us.

__ 10. Join the International Criminal Court__

My Dod - Darfur - the Christian Right should spend a few years in pergatory for that one.

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» The Caps Posted by: Cybernalt
» RE: Final Part Posted by: justme
» RE: Final Part Posted by: Cybernalt
» RE: Final Part Posted by: lrider30
Broaden the culture of life
Posted by: Jim on Apr 4, 2005 4:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a progressive who supports the idea of a "culture of life" I applaud your working to broaden the construct. But, I think that this top-ten list does not broaden it enough.

For example, number 1, withdraw the troops, should deal much broadly with the military - end the US ability to dominate the world militarily by deep cuts in the military, eliminate nuclear weapons.

Number 5, Universal health care for children, should be universal health care for all.

But to be able to have a dialog with the conservatives, we do have to acknowledge how abortion and euthanasia can be valid concerns, too. When we can hear there real concern, then we can link our other important life issues to that genuine caring for people. If this is just used as another political gambit -- (see how hypocritical they are!) -- then we will not be listened to.

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» RE: Broaden the culture of life Posted by: Cybernalt
gun control
Posted by: karyse on Apr 4, 2005 4:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I (mostly) agree. But proponents of the gun control issue seem to lose their capacity for rationality on the same level that the "culture of life" loses theirs, and the numbers are as changeable as the year oil will run out. Whatever the numbers, somewhere around half of "gun deaths" are suicides, around 20 percent are "death by cop," and a large number of those remaining are accidental.

The number one murder weapon in the U.S. is a knife, followed by some kind of bludgeoning, followed by suffocation or strangulation. Firearms ranks 4th. Besides not having much of on impact on the murder rate, gun control only takes firearms away from the honest citizen and does nothing to thwart the criminal.

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» RE: gun control Posted by: Pepper
» RE: RE: gun control Posted by: cdunaway
» RE: gun control Posted by: Seeker4Ever
» RE: gun control Posted by: ofosho86
» RE: gun control Posted by: lrider30
» RE: gun control Posted by: elmysterio
» RE: gun control Posted by: holojojo
Our vague phrases
Posted by: Jim on Apr 4, 2005 5:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We progressives, too, need to look at our phrases. If "pro-choice" folks started dealing with the other
side of abortion choice, that large numbers of abortions are pressured or even coerced (see
afterabortion.info/news/Forced1.htm) by the father of the fetus or the parents of
the woman, not the woman's free choice, they would gain more hearing in helping conservatives examine their vague phrases.

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» RE: Our vague phrases Posted by: Anita
Universal Healthcare
Posted by: carol on Apr 4, 2005 5:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with Jim. Universal Healthcare should be available for ALL, not just children. The cost would be a pittance compared to what we spend on waging unnecessary wars - as well as arming those who do our bidding now, but will turn those weapons against us later.

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» RE: Universal Healthcare Posted by: holojojo
» RE: Universal Healthcare Posted by: elmysterio
culture of life is about sexuality
Posted by: Julia Cat on Apr 4, 2005 5:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These are all good positions, but they miss the point. the driving engine of the "culture of life" is opposition to abortion, birth control, sex ed-- it's about keeping women underfoot by controlling their sexuality. You can't counteract that mindset effectively by ignoring sexuality and women's freedom. This list is pretty much a liberal social-justice Catholic list -- nothing about abortion rights, women's rights, birth control, sex education or even gender violence, which kills many more people a year --thousands more-- than the death penalty. Essentially your list says, our culture of life might force you to have a child, but we will provide welfare for that child!
The left has got to fight the right on the actual battleground the right is fighting on, which is sexuality and gender issues. I am disturbed that this author seems to concede that ground entirely.

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'Guest Workers'? No. A Living Wage, Yes.
Posted by: duriel on Apr 4, 2005 5:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why no discussion of a living wage for US citizens? But extending working privileges to foreigners? Are you mad? Have you been to a soup kitchen lately? Those 'Guest Workers' don't take jobs from CEOs, movie stars and professional athletes, you know. And what about an end to outsourcing? Poverty comes from no job or low job. Let's work to help the worst off in *this* country.

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Lay down your arms and trust US?
Posted by: joncee on Apr 4, 2005 6:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Guns take a few lives, but nothing compared to the federal highway system and federally nurtured auto industry. Combine this with the neo-con agenda of crushing all public transportation and gun violence is miniscule.

With the Christian right and the neo-cons seemingly taking over the government I would be quite skeptical about the citizenry laying down their arms and trusting the feds.

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culture of life issues
Posted by: roswel880 on Apr 4, 2005 6:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
American policy on every level is driven by a compulsion to maintain power. We've always been more about controlling and dominating then about quality of life. The difference is when the rest of the world wanted what we had, we percieved ourselves as better. This administration is percieved by the left as being more secretive and devious, but they are quite blatant about their disregard for the rule of law and quality of life issues and shamelessly arrogant about their abuses of power.
They even have the balls to put their sociopathic vision in writing. (project for a new american century). The question is not can we prove they are corrupt, they admit it. The question is why are we so powerless to do anything about it? As long as we let them define the issues, and we continually get sucked into a contest over things like who is the real culture of life, we are never going to change anything.
We need to stop talking about what we stand for and be it!

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» RE: The Color of Democracy Posted by: joncee
Culture of Life?
Posted by: Hierodule on Apr 4, 2005 6:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A rambling note: Watch CNN lately? I am so Poped Out. CNN can ignore all the news while it waxes obsessively about the goings on in Rome. No word about a woman Pope, by the way. The first woman Pope - just think about it. Wouldn't a woman look better in all those gilded robes?

Oh yeah, Cheney's son-in-law got a cushy government job under the cloak of the Pope's demise (pun intended).

Do you think that Tom DeLay and the Prez. would stand up for embattled Wal-Mart workers the way they did for Terri Shiavo? Doubt it.

We'll never have a Culture of Life until we stop teaching our children that we live in a Democracy and teach them, instead, how to survive in our Plutocracy, where the sons and daughters of the rich and powerful (i.e., Cheney's son-in-law) feed off the corpses of poor Wal-Mart workers and dead soldiers.

Gotta go out and fill the bird feeder.

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» RE: Culture of Life? Posted by: Cybernalt
Embracing life
Posted by: knitter on Apr 4, 2005 6:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can we embrace the broad idea of "Let's expand the notion of what compises a culture of life."? The boundaries need to stretch beyond nationality, creed, gender, sexuality, economic levels, politics and all divisions that split up the world between good and evil, between deserving and undeserving.

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» RE: Embracing life Posted by: Bhekzo
American workers are sufficient - just pay a living wage
Posted by: bobbaillie on Apr 4, 2005 6:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You wrote, "There is no getting around the fact that these workers from Mexico and other countries are essential to the functioning of our economy"

Au contraire. Americans aren't willing to take some of these jobs AT THE WAGE LEVELS THAT ARE CURRENTLY OFFERED.

It's economic nonsense to argue that foreign workers are "essential". Just raise the wages for these jobs to that of a living wage, and we'd get along just fine with American workers.

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Great Idea, Reframe the Message
Posted by: jkgoebel on Apr 4, 2005 6:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. Respect the Lives of our Military
2. Commit Ourselves to Ensuring Domestic Safety
3. Protect the Population from Deadly Weapons
4. Strategically Invest in Improving the Lives of Citizens
5. Ensure that Children Grow Up Healthy and Productive
6. Make Emerging Energy Technology a National Priority
7. Commit Ourselves to Ethical Government and Foreign Policy
8. Support Global Health Efforts
9. Secure our Borders
10. Make Full Time Work Pay Enough to Support the Worker

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» RE: Great Idea, Reframe the Message Posted by: sterlingwisdom
» "Repeat the mantra" Posted by: Cybernalt
Healthcare for Children
Posted by: nyydreamer on Apr 4, 2005 7:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think this country needs to go the distance on this one and give healthcare for all citizens of this country - no longer should healthcare be considered a privilege, it is a basic human right - if more taxes need to be taken out of my paycheck, then so be it - after working in a huge inner city county hospital, with ER waiting time up to 12 hours, one can see the ravages of disease on our less fortunate brothers and sisters from lack of healthcare - lets show the world that this country can be humane.

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» RE: Healthcare for Children Posted by: bearmom
» RE: Healthcare for Children Posted by: holojojo
"culture of life"
Posted by: kmeyer on Apr 4, 2005 8:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The "Culture of Life" is a joke. It cares about life when it begins, when it ends, and to hell with everything in between. Just another symptom of a woefully unsophisticated theology, that of the Christian right.

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» RE: "culture of life" Posted by: dmitry3
Culture of Life
Posted by: mkwagner on Apr 4, 2005 8:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ultimately, a culture of life comes down to respecting and caring for each other particularly the least among us, the poor, the infirmed. But it moves beyond nationalistic, racial, ethnic, gender, and preference boundaries. It also means being good stewards of the environment--treading lightly upon this earth.
It is as Jim Wallis speaks of in his book, "God's Politics" living the prophetic message of Christianity. Doing as Jesus did, reaching out to those trapped by sin, poverty, disease, social stigma. Treating as equals woman, lepers, Samaritans, and even Roman soldiers. Today that means people different from ourselves and those who would hate us and kill us (read Al Qaeda). Loving your enemy and neighbor as your self. Mostly it is about seeking justice, living humbling, and serving as Jesus served.

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» RE: Culture of Life Posted by: knitter
» RE: Culture of Life Posted by: Julia Cat
» RE: RE: Culture of Life Posted by: holojojo
» RE: Culture of Life Posted by: elmysterio
give me a break
Posted by: ronangw on Apr 4, 2005 8:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. the war is well worth it. Haven't you noticed that peace and democracy are breaking out all over the mid-east.

2. go to europe

3. guns are fun

4. there are too many social welfare programs already. why can't families help themselves and buy one less volvo

5. now that's a great I idea. will only cost a few hundred billion dollars. ummm. lets tax the rich...which as liberals define it is anyone making $50K per year. I suppose you want to pay for illegal immigrants health care as well.

6. i agree

7. fuck off. you get shot at and bombed day in and day out.

8. why spend tax dollars fighting aid abroad. can't these people keep it in their pants.

9. i agree. fair...fingerprint, DNA, retinal scan and then let them in for 3-9 months.

10. Why so brave us soldiers who fight so you can sleep at night and write this liberal garbage can be arrested an

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» RE: give me a break Posted by: nakis
» RE: RE: give me a break Posted by: ronangw
» RE: give me a break Posted by: center_peace
» RE: RE: give me a break Posted by: ronangw
» RE: RE: RE: RE: give me a break Posted by: HonestJohn
» RE: give me a break Posted by: elmysterio
» RE: give me a break Posted by: carl97
» RE: RE: give me a break Posted by: apoc
» RE: RE: give me a break Posted by: holojojo
Guns
Posted by: cottontail on Apr 4, 2005 9:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can't the idiot gun lovers realize gun control advocacy has nothing to do with hunting rifles and shotguns. It has to do with concealed weapons and automatic weapons like the AK-47 that are made for killing people. But if the NRA tells them to jump off the High Bridge, they'll line up to take their turn. This society is sick and getting sicker by the day, and I might add, more ignorant. (I am an owner of a shotgun and two hunting rifles).

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» RE: Guns Posted by: JB
Culture of Life
Posted by: aida1200 on Apr 4, 2005 9:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Amen!

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Culture of Life
Posted by: Mimi on Apr 4, 2005 10:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Meet them in the values sphere with eloquent, values language in the democratic tradition of eloquence from MLK. Begin with simple, critical change: Progressives are in favor of a CULTURE OF LIVING. This puts our side in the practical realm of what happens here and now in the challenge of LIVING fulfilling lives.
Second, consider phrases from which Blanding's practical actions flow. Like: "committed to protecting AND respecting the rights of individuals to make their own vital life and death decisions;" "committed to energy independence and global politics for long term, enduring security; "committed to policies that repair and sustain the healthy environment necessary for healthy human lives;" "committed to leaving a viable Earth for future generations to flourish;" "committed to policies that help American citizens care for their loved ones, their communities, themselves;" "committed to policies that minimize human suffering and maximize human flourishing."

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» RE: Culture of Life Posted by: sarahspirit
» RE: Culture of Life Posted by: katseattle
Global Warming
Posted by: mblanding3 on Apr 4, 2005 10:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Correction: Several folks have pointed out to me that the tsunami was a seismic event and not affected by global warming (#6). Point well taken, and apologies for the bad science. On the other hand, scientists have predicted that global warming will increase the severity of other natural disasters like hurricanes, which killed more than 150 people in the U.S. last year. --Michael Blanding

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culture of life
Posted by: susan9390 on Apr 4, 2005 11:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now is the moment for the left to take advantage of the divisiveness on the right over Bush’s domestic economic policies and international imperialism and get behind a common agenda. Let’s see if we can come up with one that will have a universal appeal.

The slogan “power to the people” might not seem so “red” in a country with a dying middle class as it once did. Isn’t it interesting that the right has taken over that color? Please stop allowing the right to steal expressions from our language and give them their own definitions. Is there anybody out there who isn’t pro-life? How about “family values;” we all have them, and we need them if we intend to preserve our families in whatever form they may take. And what about the “moral majority;” one of the characteristics of sentient beings is a moral/ethical code of conduct. Let’s take back our language!

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culture of life - part 2
Posted by: susan9390 on Apr 4, 2005 11:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Step one must be to abdicate our assumed position as world leader. I promote internationalism strongly flavored by peace, tolerance of diversity, and compassion independent of financial status. The World Court and the United Nations are great ideas if they have the authority to make policy, not just recommendations. With this, Iraq, alternative energy, prisoner abuse, gun control, death penalty, and communicable disease research become international peace or human rights issues. Health care is a domestic issue and a part of the social service system, which is in deplorable shape.

I resent the notion that universal health care only applies to children. Finally, I believe your guestworker notion is misguided. Work visa restrictions should be one of those internationally decided things mentioned above.

The European Community can serve as a test case. Let's try to emulate their strengths and correct their weaknesses as we work toward a sustainable fu

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The Culture of Life Top Ten
Posted by: HonestJohn on Apr 4, 2005 12:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mike Blanding expresses the self-defeating hatred of many Democrats today as they cling to any reason to oppose the president and his policies. Even when Bush agrees with something Blanding would probably also agree with, he manages to call the president a hypocrite. One should ask what, if anything, Blanding finds good about this president. If he should answer "nothing," as seems likely, I think it would collapse the integrity of his arguments and expose them for what they are: nothing more than the emotional exhortations of a sore loser. Mike: get over it!

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Isn't it ironic...don't you think?
Posted by: Kanefire on Apr 4, 2005 12:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These same poor-lifers are the ones that spit the rhetoric that all liberals want are government handouts, in order to justify thier indifference to actual human sufferring as opposed to projected human suffering.

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Culture of Life
Posted by: FoxWizard on Apr 4, 2005 2:12 PM   
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Actually, the "Culture of Life" is a term invented by the late Pope John Pal II, for whom it was much, much more than either the fundamentalist zealots or the warbird neocons, or even your own list, can possibly imagine.

John Paul condemned not just the policies you wish to reverse (I agree with you, btw), but targeted a consumerist culture driven by a military/industrial/commercial complex that subordinates everything to the power of money. The conservatives did what they always do -- they coopted, and bankrupted a truly superb idea and narrowed down to suit their own dark purposes. A real "Culture of Life" would orient itself toward the elevation and protection of human life, care for people and against war, death, disease and exploitation (even of women). You won't hear that coming out of this administration, or the demonstrators grandstanding outside Mrs. Schiavo's hospice center. They can't see beyond the political points and dollars to be made.

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» RE: Culture of Life Posted by: clc2004vote
RE: gun control
Posted by: c.d.embrey on Apr 4, 2005 2:13 PM   
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Why do honest citizens need guns? Ask the Jews of Warsaw! The American people defeated a King in the past—and we may need to defeat another King in the future.

Many big city leberals on the coasts don't hunt or fish but many flyovers do! If ya wanta get the people in Kansas to stop voting Republican stop being knee jerk on gun control.

Most people in favor of gun control know nothing about guns—which is a real problem when preaching to those that do.

!. Hunting rifles are much more deadly than assault guns. War is conducted up close, not at 600 plus yards—guess which guns are deadly at 600-1,000 yards? Guess which guns the U.S. supplies to its snippers? Since the start of the Vietnamese war the U.S has dropped the standard round from .30-06 to .308 and then to .223.

2. Fifty caliber rifles are used by competition target shooters. Name me one robbery that was commited with a .50 cal rifle? One murder?

c.d.

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» RE: RE: gun control Posted by: lrider30
» RE: RE: RE: gun control Posted by: c.d.embrey
» RE: RE: RE: RE: gun control Posted by: lrider30
Re: Gueat workers
Posted by: c.d.embrey on Apr 4, 2005 2:28 PM   
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"There is no getting around the fact that these workers from Mexico and other countries are essential to the functioning of our economy"

You've got to be kidding? Most illeagals replace american workers! Union janitors were replaced with lower payed illegals in So Cal. Contractors are hireing illegals in the construction business in So Cal. Not many bus boys speak english in So Cal. You get the idea. Just because illegals don't take jobs from college educated white liberals doesn't mean that they are not taking jobs from Americans. Recognize this and you might get the vote in Kansas again.

BTW there are still many white American citizens still picking crops in the central valley of California. But not many of them are liberals!

c.d.

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» RE: Re: Gueat workers Posted by: lrider30
» RE: Re: Gueat workers Posted by: Panjandrum
There's more to a culture of life than just humans
Posted by: peaceangel on Apr 4, 2005 2:36 PM   
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There is an aspect of respect for life that must top the list - the life of this planet. Given our environmental crisis, all the other items must be placed in context with the survival of LIFE in all its forms and diversity. We do not own this planet, we borrow it from our children.

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Re: Guns
Posted by: c.d.embrey on Apr 4, 2005 2:38 PM   
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Where could you ever buy a fully automatic AK47 or any other fully automatic weapon with-out a federal tax stamp?

Its been years since Bonnie and Clyde and other Americans have been able to buy Browning Automatic Rifles!

You own two shot guns which are used for many more liquor store hold-ups than fully auto AK47s.

c.d.

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