AMEN! (Please excuse the expression.)

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I read this and other columns, posted on the "Institute for Local Self-Reliance" web page (?) and I was puzzled. Besides the general anger against religion, especially Catholics, and the occasional half truth (which Dan Brown also uses in his very-entertaining book), I just don't see the point. I agree with Mr. Morris in the sense that all extremes are bad, including religion. But I think he over-generalizes a things a bit too much. By the way, the "science centers" refusing to show Volcanoes is in fact an IMAX theatre. And that decision was reversed due to popular pressure coming from many of the same supersticious fools Mr. Morris refers to in this column. As a final PS, please look up the definition of the word "faith," Mr. Morris.

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Read Sam Harris' book and be enlightened - and frightened.

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This column rehashes an old worn-out view that organized religion demands nothing but uncritical acceptance of truths that fly in the face of evidence. However, all of the great religions have long-standing strands that insist that reason is an important component of religion. Mainline Protestant seminaries teach the Bible according to historical critical methods, which separate mythology and message. Finally, religion has just as often been a progressive force as a reactionary one. Ever hear of Martin Luther King?

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I fell victim to the "faith" over two decades ago. The fanatic's definition of faith is knowledge that cannot be challenged otherwise you don't have real faith. Much of what the NCSE uses is this kind of circular coercive logic. Information regarding what is being pushed can be found at www.ncseweb.org . Scientific information regarding the use of all forms of religion pretending to be science and their origins can be found at www.talkorigins.org and is supported by field professionals and university professors to debunk the garbage that is invading our schools. The US is moving backwards in science and problem solving at an alarming rate and is actually falling behind some third world nations at the high school level.

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Humanity is endowed with reason. Human beings are inclined by this faculty to ask "Why am I here? What is my purpose?" This search deploys consciousness into the realms of science and spirit. Every teacher, rabbi, lao tzu, great spirit who has claimed to be from God, brought a book, and established the principles for living in peace and justice (i.e. White Buffalo Calf Woman, Massau, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Krishna, Muhammad, Zoroaster, Buddha, Bab, Baha'u'llah, and others) and those who kept their covenant alive represent faith, which is the power of attraction to the truth. Science and spirit must agree. They are like the wings of a bird. Science without spirit is materialism, spirit without science is superstition. The bird cannot fly without balance.

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When a religion becomes the state religion, then its practice is generally required. This has been true throughout history. But required faith distroys faith. Because who can be sure if the adherent is not just going through the motions ( for economic reasons or to keep out of legal problems) or really believes? I think that this actually diminishes those who truly believe and makes those who just mouth the faith able to make changes that denys the teachings of that religion. Take for instances those changes now taking place in DC. Every day we can see legislators extolling religion to achieve changes that put monetary goals above humanitarian goals, mammon over Christ's directions to help our "brothers" and "to love our neighbors as ourselves.

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Of course "when it comes to organized religion, no burden of proof is required...Taking a proposition "on faith" means to consciously and willfully refuse to examine the facts." We are used to this since Bush has been renouncing reason since he TOOK office in 2000. It is much easier for the flock to follow mindlessly than to think about the facts.

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Thanks for writing this. Fear of offending the religious seems to have become the new political correctness, so it's nice to see someone toss around some controversial ideas.

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There's some evidence that some people are hard-wired for supernatural beliefs - feelings of transcendence can be manipulated with drugs or electromagnetic fields. If there is a "god" receptor in the brain or some kind of circuitry for it we'll never get rid of it. Instead of confrontation and vilification why not acceptance? Maybe we should treat these people with pity rather than scorn. Only through education can we make progress.

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that in searching to find the cause for the existence of so complex and rational a creature as ourselves, so many should abandon those same traits in settling on an explanation. Wonderful article.

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This is an absolutely superb piece!!! I am heartened to read someone expressing my views so eloquently and, more importantly, accurately! Thank you...immensely!

Having been born, baptised, and confirmed a "Christian" I have come to abhor it and denouce it for it's bigotry, hypocracy and self-righteousness that is so apparent to all who are not blinded by the illusion.

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Morris is so far off base here that he should consider himself lucky to have such an extreme left venue to use as a platform. What sort of pompous individual would declare "taking a proposition 'on faith' means to consciously and willfully refuse to examine the facts". I would like to challenge David Morris to find and disprove any instance less than factual from the Bible and then publish what you found untrue. Actually I will just save you some time everything in the Bible is true, it is a historically accurate document. I guess that disruptes David's opinion on faith disregarding truth especially since faith supports truth! Now tell me who the one is refusing to examine the facts, maybe someone should read their own article!

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http://phoenix.swarthmore.edu/2005-03-24/ opinions/14833

(delete the space between "opinions" and the preceding backlash, if u want. )

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Thanks to David Morris for speaking out where so many others fear to tread. For too long, religion and the god concept have enjoyed a hands-off protection from scrutiny and critique, while being elevated to unreasonable levels of rank and privilege. But as social behavior patterns that affect everyone, directly or indirectly, supernaturalism should be as open to close examination as anything else that affects society. For my part, I would have religion treated like cigarette smoking.

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While holding an entire society hostage to only one belief system is ludicrous and painful, I don't think faith by itself is an inherently bad thing. It's all in what a person does with it, like anything. Ask yourself whether you've ever wished for The Revoluation to come, to right all the corporate wrongs. That's faith too.

I read recently that Catholic Relief services paid to replace a mosque's roof in the Lhok Bubon village in the tsunami's aftermath. You won't see that on the news. Because we don't hear from the sane, humble religious types because they're too busy living sane, humble lives.

If my society were to be governed purely by logic, I'd find that no less horrific than living under Biblical law. I'm not a robot.

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I think we need to be pushing the envelope of understanding and progress....so, this articles and all related effort to debunk the religious myths are all good and necessary. However, society moves very slowly (bar a revolution), and people's beliefs don't change easily. I've been writing about our religious myths as they impact our lives and public policy, but I've come to the conclusion that most people are not interested in the truth or even an alternative theory.... if it feels good to belong to the church or believe in something benevolent that will take care of you somehow, well, this is all that matters!

I'm not giving up. I'm all for progressive, the scientific method and further understanding--knowledge based on facts not faith. But, people should be ready to accept this....

Yet, where would we be today if there weren't those few who broke the barriers of culture, church, and gave us avenues of intellect and spiritual freedom....

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Thank you, AlterNet. This kind of article, as a balance to the rising tide of faith-based irrationality in our country, is long overdue. Religion, especially when it intrudes in politics and in our personal lives, should never be placed beyond criticism. I would emphasize, however, that not all religions are equally irational, authoritarian or intolerant. Buddhism, for example, is widely respected for teaching compassion and tolerance and for being a fundamentally rational religion. Most notably, and unlike Christianity and Islam, Buddhism has never initiated a religious war.

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If we want to preserve the separation of church and state, it is imperative that we begin to think along these lines. If not, I fear that the US will slip into a very dangerous "Holy War" with any religion that is not "Christ-centirc" -- A VERY bad scenario.

This is a timely topic for me as I am exploring the very same ideas in a sculpture project. Have a look at:
http://www.culshaw.info
then -> "Projects"
then -> "ReligiousLines"

I am not anti-faith (superstition), just scared by the fact that America is becoming the Christian version of the Taliban. Extremism in any form is evil.

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No person can perform a good deed any more effectively in the name of his god than he can do it in his own name alone, but no person can perform an evil deed any more enthusiastically than when it is done in the name of his god.

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Prove it then! All you can do is talk of how others have disproved the Bible, then show me! Don't tell me about others and what they found, prove to me what in the Bible isn't true. You can't! God exists, you're a liar and I'm praying for you.

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As a practical atheist, actually, I find this piece objectionable.

Connotations matter.

The connotations of "faith" include the its associated deeds - from works of highest altruism to vilest horror. It is not reasonable to redefine the word so as to exclude the altruism connotation. "Superstition" has very different connotations today... small things, indulgences to an almost tongue-in-cheek tribute to tradition. Petty - not major - indulgences which are harmless and therefore permitted.

Neither the Christian right nor the author of this piece have permission to abuse the language as they do. The ability to draw clear yet subtle distinctions is too important. Rewritten with the substitution as a metaphor, even a strong one, rather than a strict congruity... this would be a fine article. As it is, I find it repugnant for choosing this approach, even as I agree with the underlying theme.

This site can, and shou

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...and should, maintain a higher standard than this.

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Yes, Mr. Morris's article is a bit critical. He may not think so. But he has good right to be.
Anyone who has studied past and current events is well aware of the death and destruction that has happened and continues to happen in the name of religion.
Yes, religion does great things for man. But it's intolerance and repression of freedom in church states is not excuseable.
Anyone who can see where many people like Bush, Delay, Frist, etc.. are looking to lead America to is enough to cause you to soil yourself. They claim to work for Christ but believe in depriving people of life, liberty and happiness. Never did the Christ tell them to engage in those actions. Yet they do it on claims of morality. There are a great many Christians opposed to those actions including MLK Jr.
The mixing of church and state always, without exception, resulted in loss of freedom, in death and destruction. We cannot change course and follow that path at any time.

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The necessity for a spiritual life seems to be age old with us. Like most human needs, business has stepped in to supply it. I am totally in agreement with this essay although I have had a spiritual experience that changed my life. This came as a great surprise to me because I was a militant athiest when it happened. Even the iron hand of Stalin could not eliminate religion. The very best that can be done is to remove the money from it; the same thing can be said for government.

Those who profit from religion do so as theologists. No one has a knowledge of God, or what his will is for everyone. My experience came about when, after standing silent at a recovery meeting, I decided to join the others in the Lord's Prayer on an impulse. The ceiling lit up in a glorious light--The short period of the prayer seemed to last for ages. My first thought was, "they are right!" the hill-billy preachers were right and I was wrong.

This awakening did not change my

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I like the opinion of that famous lapsed Irish Catholic George Carlin, who said, "When it comes to bullshit---big time, major league bullshit--you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims: religion." Our TV cable carries a batch of tele-evangelists who cater, quite successfully it seems, to the mentality of an 8-year old. To watch these latter-day Elmer Gantrys work their followers into a teary, arm-waving lather, prior to asking for money, is not a pleasant spectacle. The term "brain-dead" has been in the news a lot lately.

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Just going on what Thirdmg said.

"Most notably, and unlike Christianity and Islam, Buddhism has never initiated a religious war. "

This is not a pro Buddhist post.

Most notably Chistrianity and Islam, the two great religions who have warred the most amoung each other and themselves are supposed to based upon the worship of God. Christ, the Prince of Peace, has had easily tens of millions of people killed in his name for two thousand years (I can't prove that figure but over all the continents the people add up). The same goes for Islam.
Buddhism teaches tolerance and respect for all life. There is no word for holy war in Buddhism.
I have heard fundamentalist Baptist declare that the Nation of Islam is lead by Satan and they all must be killed for Christ (uttered by my own sister).

I am a Christian but I love the Buddhist faith. Peace, tolerance and respect for all life isn't just in their teachings. T

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If what we have commonly called "faith" is really superstition,
then what IS faith? A well reasoned article based on some
silly redefinitions.

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Picking on the excesses of religion is like shooting fish in a barrel, but brazen secularism does no better. Witness Marxism. To dismiss thousands of years of scholarship with the wiff that it is all superstition is the height of anti-intellectualism. Christianity has sustained and challenged the minds of the likes of Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, M.L. King, Dorothy Day, and countless believers who found the evidence for the faith compelling. Read some philosophy of religion and apologetics to counter these biases. There is plenty of historical evidence, though not incontrovertable, for the resurrection of Christ, for instance.If you begin with the a priori that this is a closed universe, then, of course, you cannot make room for the transcendant. Faith and reason are not incompatible, they are ineluctably wound together. For many of us a faith without an intellectual underpinning would be no faith at all.

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"...It's a battle for your head, heart, and ass..."

Love and Light,

Crystal Dave (The Wizard of Wyrd)

"The Strong take from the Weak; The Smart take from the Strong; And Evil takes from everyone..."

...try not to let the bastards get to you...

C.D.

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Religion has inspired great art and music as well as bloody wars. "Christians" have strayed from the teachings of Christ and are among the first to bear arms against their fellow humans in spite of the clear commandment that "thou shalt not kill." You can prove almost anything by invoking the Bible (faith), just as you can by invoking statistics (reason). Churches are social organizations where like-minded individuals can gather to share their humanity.

While I do not belong to a religious organization, I still consider myself a spiritual being. This sense of something greater has placed an enormous burden on us: to balance the evidence of reason and the inspiration of faith. I have taught biology, and I tried to instill in my students the idea that the human mind can entertain and evaluate alternatives. I taught evolutionism, creationism, and "space seed" theory, and the essay question on the exam asked students to chose one and defend their choice.

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Gee, boys, get a clue. A MAN gives life and takes life? He is then hung on a cross, in pain, bleeds, wears a diaper, supposely dies, goes in a dark seclucion for THREE days, then emerges alive! How many of you can't see that is what women do every month? Religion was invented so that men can do whatever the hell they want to the Mother Earth. They stole the women's story and took it for their own. These men murdered, burned, tortured, disrespected life for anyone who would not see it their way, so that men could DO WHATEVER THEY FEEL LIKE. The one problem is this; now the backlash is that these men and now women are so unhappy that they have to reach out to find anything from without themselves so as to not ever look inside themselves. They wish everyone to join their hated view of the world, the BEAUTIFUL LIVING SOUL called SHE, Earth, so that they don't have to take responsibility for their own past actions that is now killing life on Earth. SHAME ON YOU!

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Organized religion scares the **** out of me!

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A confrontational piece like this does little to enhance the public debate over the separation of church and state. He has oversimplified the quest for truth into a simple binary choice - faith or reason. It is on par with Bush's claim that you are either with the USA or with the terrorists.

I am both deeply faithful and highly reasonable. My faith is rooted in the inherent value in every human being. The vast majority of humans share this faith, yet they express it in many ways. It may be the belief in the Baby Buddha that lives in each person. It may be the belief that God created all humans in his own image. It may be a secular belief in unalienable human rights. But it is the same faith that leads us to fight for the cause of humanity and revere universally held values like peace, justice, and freedom.

There is plenty to debate about how to work for these values, but to deride faith and make a scapegoat of religion is reactionary and counterproductiv

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I don't doubt my belief in God, nor do I doubt my belief that government and God have no right to mix. I teach Biology at a local community college and I am appalled at how little my students know about certain topics because their parents have deemed those topics "evil." Evolution is not the belief we evolved from monkeys and it occurs every day everywhere on earth. Teaching abstinence will not stop curiousity and hormones, it will however stop kids from using proper birth and STD control. I'm scared right now, not only as someone teaching science, but as a citizen who finds herself despising members of her own faith. I may be "Christian" but that's my choice, not the government's.

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Religious organizations are going to fulfill their own apocalypse, with our president thinking his actions are the will of god; they will use the power of science to drop the nuclear apocalypse.

I don’t waste my time with FAITH, I only believe what can be seen and heard, and also proven with science, not belief.

peace

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Out-of-control religious zealotry is one of the most dangerous influences on our society today, but a broad, simplistic rehash of arguments against the church is not what the left needs to effectively counter it. Morris all but elevates a facile notion of "reason" to the same level of superstition he carelessly ascribes to all religions.

As others have noted here, there are large elements within the religious community, especially in mainline Protestant denominations, that highly value reason and critical thought, and believe that faith not only can but MUST be challenged regularly. Not all Christian denominations take the Bible as literal truth, and not all claim absolute truth over all other faiths.

I am not at all surprised that Judge Moore was oblivious that the Ten Commandments are, in fact, a PART of the Torah, but those who strive to fight his position should do the kinds of basic research necessary to back up their own message.

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There are things in the Bible, particulary in Genesis that scientists have found to be inacurate. One simple example is the FACT that we (Homo Sapiens) shared this planet with other species of humans for thousands, possibly even millions of years. Homo Erectus, Homo Neanderthalensis, and the latest-Homo Florencis ("Hobbits" still in the early stages of study).
The Bible mentions nothing about this, and oh, don't get me started on Reptiles and Dinosaurs. There is solid physical evidence that supports/proves the above. And that is the difference between Science and Faith, one is truth/reality and one is Superstition(that which can not be proven). But with all this being said it DOES NOT mean that a GOD, a Higher Force does not exist. Not even scientists are sure how the Universe itself was created. A "God" or "Creator" may have set the whole thing in motion.

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This essay, while well researched, is another sad example of how the "progressive" community repeatedly cuts itself off from a huge cadre of potential allies by painting all religion with the same bad brush. Religion. like anything else, can be put to good or bad uses. Even a bicycle can be a lethal weapon if you decide to run over people with it! In the past two years the church-based peace & justice group I belong to has petitioned to raise the state minimum wage, marched against the occupation of Iraq, registered voters of all parties, raised a significant amount of money to support Third World development, and made sure that only Fair Trade coffee is served at church events. (And this is only a partial list of what we have done.) We do these things not just to be "good liberals", but because we believe that such acts are called for in our church's central gospel. It is truly possible, I think, to kneel before one's Creator and also be a "freethinker".

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I guess logical thought is something you can only get from a fictional alien race known as Vulcans on a television show called STAR TREK. I'm just amazed at how many people in this country refuse to accept reality/science. They sure don't have a problem with it when it saves their lives or ends suffering for them - MEDICAL SCIENCE - I guess prayer is all you need huh ???

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Yes, this article is all too accurate in its assessment, and so is Sam Harris' The End of Faith.

It constantly amazes me that people who profess to believe in the equivalent of tooth fairies then demand a place at the table to discuss issues of consequence for humankind.

BTW this does NOT mean there is no spiritual side of life--just that organized religion is decidedly not about that.

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In this article, David Morris demonstrates what the faithful have intrinsically known to be true for years - we are the only group that can be targeted for prejudice without any sort of retaliation or even societal regret. This is particularly true for those of us who are Roman Catholic in America.

Indeed, if I wrote an article questioning the legitimacy of say Kwanzaa, I would most certainly be shouted off the "stage". I wouldn't do that, because I, unlike the author, am a tolerant person. I may not agree with the celebration of Kwanzaa, but as far as I'm concerned, people can do whatever they want.

Why is it so bad for the Church to advise its faithful to not read a book? Why do you care? Who are you to say what I should believe in? If the Church desides the book is heresy, so be it. If people agree, they won't read it, if they don't, they will.

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Here Here!
Jacoby's book is excellent and I recommend all Human secularist and religious dissidents read it as an important tool for our current deplorable situation. RNC Chariman Mehlman recently made a statement that I thing resonates with their true scope of thought on this exact thing: "If you believe that government should respect YOUR religion and YOUR values, than our party is your party."
(small correction in article: "Truth for Authority, not authority for truth" was Lucretia Mott's motto, another influentional female abolitionist and a Quaker, not Stanton's motto)

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I admit I don't have a god-shaped hole in my head and I guess that's why I don't understand why people get so excited over this. It seems pointless to argue over something that will never be proven or disproven one way or the other. Get a life; move on. And for those of you who are swelling with indignation because you know it's only a matter of time till Jesus comes and proves you right I say talk to me about your theories then. Meantime, leave me alone.

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It is not possible to debate or rebut faith with reason; faith brings no evidence to the table. If we understand the issues, we can criticize faith only to the extent that our analysis is either incomplete or cannot be completed, or we are misinformed. There are zealots for every season and reason (pun intended), and religion has its share. Anyone who is a zealot with regard to anything and to the exclusion of all else is not a balanced individual. In the big picture, we must be raising our children in a balanced way, but given that mankind tends towards balkanization and exclusionism, this paradigm shift seems unlikely, ever.

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First the disclaimer: I'm probably more liberal than 90% of the folks who write or post to AlterNet.
Having said that, equating religion with superstition is a very bad and shortsighted way to convince folks of the benefits of liberalism. There are legions of committed Christians who are also social liberals, but to pass the smell test liberal social ideas must use common sense. This article makes an anecdotal case (granted, there are lots of anecdotes today) that unreasoning Christians are trying to take over the society. That's simply not true. There is a fundamentalist minority whose voices are being heard way out of proportion to their numbers because of the administration we've elected. They are not the majority of citizens, nor even the majority of Christians, but if liberals continue to lump the religious faithful together as an object of scorn then the religious right will continue to prosper.
Read Jim Wallis (Sojourners). He understands how to frame th

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"Organized Religion is a tool used by the State (The government) to control the simple minded."

Author Unknown

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While completing an English degree aI had the opportunity to take a graduate-level theology class. The class was populated with grad students preparing for seminary school. I was between religions and not convinced of any of it, so I got to play "devil's advocate." The professor was thrilled to have someone in class willing to challenge student's beliefs and we had many lively discussions.

It was suprisingly easy making a case for atheism. But in the process of stepping on peoples "Faith," I creeped myself out and realized the value of religion in society and lives. It's the red states having the most problems with divorce, abortion, incest, and all the other "sins" that are of concern. So maybe those people need the rigid structure the church offers in order to refrain from beating their wives and having sex with their children.

There has to be balance. Science is going to have to do a better job of reaching out to those living under aggerssive r

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Tell me, what is the more believable story -

1. Some Power caused the big bang to occur, which lead to the creation of our world, the starting of evolution, etc....

2. We are here due to pure coincidence. Molecules just happened to arrange a certain way, which eventually led to your existence.

I have an easier time with number 1. This is really a pointless conversation because neither one of us is ever going to convince the other. But don't approach me as a superstitious nut just because I have a different opinion on our world.

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did ya ever read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand. Terrifies me that she basically predicted the end of reason and it's happening right now!

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"There is great danger of a final, and we believe fatal, identification of the word religion with doctrines and methods which have lost their significance and which are powerless to solve the problem of human living in the Twentieth Century. Religions have always been means for realizing the highest values of life. Their end has been accomplished through the interpretation of the total environing situation (theology or world view), the sense of values resulting therefrom (goal or ideal), and the technique (cult), established for realizing the satisfactory life. A change in any of these factors results in alteration of the outward forms of religion. This fact explains the changefulness of religions through the centuries. But through all changes religion itself remains constant in its quest for abiding values, an inseparable feature of human life."

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REASON AND FAITH ARE LIKE OIL AND WATER, THEY DONT MIX!!! MANY HAVE PUT THEIR FAITH IN MAN AND MAN WILL FAIL YOU EVERYTIME!!!! THE BIBLE SAYS THEY WILL LOOK BUT NOT SEE AND THEY WILL LISTEN BUT NOT HEAR!!!! THERE ARE MANY THAT HAVE MADE THEIR CHURCH THEIR GOD!!!!! GOD GAVE ME A MESSAGE: CHURCH CAN BE A WONDERFULL NEST, BUT UNLESS YOU VENTURE OUT OF YOUR NEST AND USE YOU BIBLE FOR WINGS, YOU WILL NEVER SOAR WITH DISTRUCTION MOST PROBABLE!!! JESUS SAID YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN IN ORDER TO COME TO HIS KINGDOM. WELL THAT HAPPENED TO ME AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED IS THAT I WAS TOLD WHAT I WOULD BE DOING SEVEN YEARS IN ADVANCE!!! IT CAME TRUE!!! GOD IS THE GIVER OF BLESSINGS AND MIRACLES!! ITS A SHAME THAT THERE ARE SO MANY THAT WALK A DESERT IN THIS WORLD WHEN ALL THEY GOT TO DO IS TURN THEIR LIFE OVER TO GOD THE FATHER, JESUS HIS SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT!!!! REASON AND FAITH DONT MIX!!! TRY TO REASON THE HOLY SPIRIT AND BEING BORN AGAIN!!! ONLY FAITH WILL GIVE YOU THE ANSWER!!!!

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"red conservative" sounds so deeply brain-washed, that faith has taken over and reason was left behind a long time ago. it's really difficult to talk to someone who's that far gone. reason cannot penetrate, no matter how articulate your argument.

that's not to say we should give up, but realize that superstition is a powerful force motivated by fear. instead of trying to persuade the fanatics, focus on enlightening the undecideds.

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Excellent attempt by a non-believer at portraying the stereo-typical believer - that's what my money is on. :)

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By "organized religion," the author clearly means particular Christians whose views he does not like. But not all religious traditions, and not all people within a particular tradition, reject reason -- that's absurd. Nor are religions solely about "faith" -- what about practices? Nor is faith merely uncritical belief in supernatural powers. To compile anecdotes about particular Christian excesses is not to make a credible argument about "modern religions," whatever that means. The first step in making a thoughtful argument is to define your terms. This screed shows no evidence of sophistication, theoretically or historically, about "religion" -- Christian or otherwise, in the U.S. or elsewhere. To counter bigotry and self-rigteousness with bigotry and self-righteousness is no help: it's war. If you want to convince me, a (non-Christian) cleric and scholar of religion, that you're making a reasonable argument, you'll have to do MUCH better than this!

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religion itself isn't a bad thing, it's just bad when people use religion to further their own power quests or selfish agendas.

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I WAS WATCHING TV YEARS AGO. IT WAS A SPY MOVIE, BUT THERE WAS ONE THING THAT ALWAYS STAYED WITH ME. THERE WAS A GUY TALKING TO ANOTHER GUY AND HE SAID TO HIM: YOU BETTER WATCH THIS GUY. THE OTHER MAN ASKED WHY AND THE GUY REPLIED: HE BELIEVES HIS GOD WANTS HIM TO DO IT. WE DONT REALLY UNDERSTAND WHY THERE ARE THOSE THAT BLOW THEMSELVES UP WITH A BOMB IN ORDER TO KILL THE ENEMY. WELL I THINK THE ABOVE EXPLAINS IT. IF WE ARE GOING TO STOP THIS WE NEED TO STOP CHRISTIAN BICKERING AND REACH OUT TO THOSE THAT ARE LOST AND DOING THE DEVILS WORK!!!
MAY THE LOVE OF JESUS BE WITH YOU!!!
"THE ABOVE HAS TWO MEANINGS"

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Well, AlterNet must really be running out of ideas. I had hoped for a lively, intelligent discussion because much that is truly superstitious lurks within the Church and religion. Sadly, we had nothing but cliches wrapped in overwritten prose, without a single new idea or inisghtful thought. It all reads like a deliberate attempt to generate comment, the polarisation of which is entirely predictable. AlterNet - Must Do Better!

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You know, it boggles me. There's nothing wrong with having a faith in God and attending a church. People here who say things like it's all superstition have never had God reveal Himself to them. I've seen too many things to doubt His existance... like a friend who's diagnosed with a terminal brain tumor suddenly making a full recovery... with no sign of cancer AT ALL... The transforming power of God in people's lives is amazing... I've seen the hardest heart be turned around by the power of God's love. Now you're gonna say that I'm some ignorant fool, but I put science and fact before anything but some things just can't be explained away with science alone... besides, what is science except God's toolbox.

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Now I'm the first to admit that alot of what the so-called "Christian Right" does boggles my brain. But that's because humans by nature are fallen. They are corrupt and they take something pure like God's word and twist it for their own gain. I know LOTS of people that claim to be Christians but only very few that actually "walk the walk"... THAT's where the problem is. There's nothing wrong with God, He's perfect... it's the free will we have as humans that cause us to follow our own greed...

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Faith-minded people do not have the desire to properly and honestly perceive and model reality. But their faith is nonetheless a useful strategy. These people comprise at least 70% of society, and I believe there is an ESS keeping that number pegged there.

Humans are good at detecting liars. However, if one actually believes what they say, they are not detectable as a liar. Thus they are given more credence. As such, it is a valuable and effective strategy to believe whatever you wish were true. It is in fact a subtle mind control.

However, this strategy has a significant downside. You cannot ever know what REALLY is true. You have sacrificed truth to your desire. And as such, you can't draw the line where it should be drawn and recognize that belief in eternal life is a wish completely outside of the domain of the effectiveness of this strategy.

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Thanks for a thought-provoking article.

I'm the product of 16 years of Catholic schools but that whole Pandora's Box is a topic for another day... It took me 52 years to actually wake up and think for myself. Hallelujah!

It continually amazes me how many people find safety and comfort in being told what and how to think. And in demonizing normal and reasonable human activity. Our top priority in raising the next generation ought to be instilling critical thinking skills--critical thinking about EVERYTHING.

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well speaking for myself obviously... its because friggin Righties keep wanting to interfere and tell us how to lead our lives. Bugger off will ya !!! Just because youre life sucks doesnt mean you have to drag the rest of us down with you.

By the way, Great article Mr Morris. But alas as always constructive criticism of organised religion brings out the crackpots. I guess people just cant handle having their belief systems questioned.
I was raised a Catholic and no proof was ever given to me except a bible written almost 400 years after the death of Jesus.. hmmmm let me think, ever heard of the old adage, "History is written by the victors"...
And I'm freakin sick of idiots going on about how God cured their Cancerous friends/relatives, get a life , are you seriously that deluded , sorry wrong question America is after all a nation where 40% of the populace believe the Universe is only 6,000 years old... Geez you Americans really are going down the hi

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it is amusing how blind people can be to their own superstitions. yes, science is based on proven fact, but so much of it is based on THEORY, GUESSWORK, EXPERIMENTATION. take evolutionist THEORY. its just that. no one KNOWS how the universe came about, yet you scientists will claim you are so much more fact than the religious fanatics. open up your eyes, and realize no one, including you, has the answers.

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I stumbled across a 12 volume collection of the works of Robert G. Ingersoll in my college library in 1960 and read every one of them. Having been raised in a southern Baptist community, culture, and family his words quite literally freed me of religious superstition. The words of Dr. King apply "Free at last". Mesmerized reading his works, I distinctly recall feeling as if I was floating a foot off the ground. He gave Christians no quarter in the latter part of the 19th century and drew huge crowds throughout the east. Unfortunately, his works have been out of print since the 1930s I am guessing. A good library might have copies, that is unless the religious right has found and destroyed them.
BTW, Ingersoll also had been the Governor of Illinois, a Civil War officer and hero and delivered the shortest Presidential nominating speech in history introducing candidate George Blaine I believe with the words;
"The man and the moment have met."

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March 29th, in a chapel underneath the National Cathedral (i almost wrote 'National Theatre'), along with a DC audience of about 40, I attended an "off the record" talk by Tim Goeglein, one of 13 White House speech writers (down from about 45 in prior administrations). Mr. Goeglein's expertise is inserting Christian quotes and ideology into W's speeches.

My sweetheart rasied the 1st question, bluntly asking, in effect, "How can W justify his lies?" We agree that W needs another rapturous enlightenment such as he had when he found Christ and stopped drinking. (One waggish friend thinks maybe he needs to start drinking again.)

I asked the last question, " In these globalized days what would be the ramifications if a politician of national stature would close a major speech, such as the State of the Union, by saying the normal "thank you, God bless you, and God bless America" and adding "and God Bless the World!?"

Time was short

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The political cycle on religion ebbs and flows like everything else. The way most Deomcratic leaders are embracing religion these days (at least as a political strategy) it will be the Republicans denouncing religion and the Democrats preaching it in 5 years or so. And 5 - 10 years later - guess what?

If you want to believe in a religion that's fine with me. If a god, yours or someone elses, is the solution to the universe that's o.k. by me - how could I stop it anyway?

My take on organized religion is pretty simple: Religious organizations have done some good to the world...which of those good things could not have been accomplished by a secular/humanistic organization? So, given all the bad things organized religion has done over the years - why do we as a society need it for?
But, with that attitude come other responsibilities...most of which secular human society hasn't mastered yet either - DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN.

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Isn't the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith the new name for the Office of the Inquisition?

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Religion is inherently dangerous because it can not be rationally argued against. Because it uses faith instead of reason and logic, we are all just supposed to not question anything and if we do question, we are 'not respecting people's religious beliefs'. That's fine, I'll respect your religious beliefs until you try to use those beliefs to tell the rest of us what we can or cannot do. None of us should be forced to live our lives according to the beliefs of someone else. With the suppression of debate, rational thought and science in this country now, it is starting to resemble that period of the Roman Empire when Christianity spread leading to the Dark Ages.

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"Faith is believing what you know ain't so..."

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TO MY FELLOW-CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:


I PUT the following work under your protection. It contains my opinions upon Religion. You will do me the justice to remember, that I have always strenuously supported the Right of every Man to his own opinion, however different that opinion might be to mine. He who denies to another this right, makes a slave of himself to his present opinion, because he precludes himself the right of changing it.


The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is Reason. I have never used any other, and I trust I never shall.


Your affectionate friend and fellow-citizen,


THOMAS PAINE

Luxembourg, 8th Pluviose,
Second Year of the French Republic, one and indivisible.
January 27, O. S. 1794.

Check it out: http://gabrieljeffrey.com/link/1691

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If God is all knowing and all loving, then how could he create even one human full well knowing that this human would burn in hell forever. Sure this person was given free will, but God already knew that this person was just not righteous enough, or not trusting enough to believe that Jesus died for him. How do you blame somebody for not being able to find the light switch in the dark.

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I believe that there is a creator and that we are divine beings. My problem comes in believing in the bible fundamentaly. See my "Great Biblical Contradictions Part 2." It is written and written word doesn't change (even the LIVING BIBLE) when everything else does. I beleive that Jesus said many things that are not encorporated in the bible. Eg; Jesus spoke of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and knowing that we are created in his image speaks volumes to me. If you look at indigeneous belief systems around the world you will find interesting similarities. Whether they be African, Native American (North or South), Polynesian, Aborigional, or others, we will simply call these groups belief systems Shamanism, they had the same fundamental principals. One of the foundations is that humans have a High Self or God (Spirit) Self, a Middle Self (Mind), and a Low (Flesh) Self. I would recommend that all who want the truth that Jesus spoke, try researching some ancient belief systems.

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He [Solomon] made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim [diameter = 10] and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it. [circumference = 30].

From 1 Kings 7:23

Pi is then 3 per divine relevation.

Patently, blatantly, demonstatably FALSE.

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The end, or purpose, of reason is to understand realities and experiences. It is shallow reasoning, possibly emotionally based, to dismiss faith as superstition. By way of contrast, I appreciated the way Jim Wallis's intelligent and considered faith helps him to generate a positive vision for the USA ( in particular). There are realities which David Morris is dismissing which need to be incorporated in a comprehensive vision. However, I agree that there should be great concern over actions and trends in your present administration, which violate Christian principle although being presented as Christian.

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Problems with Morris' dichotomy of reason and superstition: 1: science is not free of assumption and social construction, it is often driven by commercial goals and culturally-driven imperatives, as well as concepts about reality which are never tested. 2: many humans believe in God based on direct experience. This claim is untestable except through the same practices which grounded many of these experiences.

It is natural for scientists, and those who share their worldview, to question claims of invisible forces or intelligences. But positing rigid camps as Morris does will not be helpful, either intellectually or socially. Interestingly, few religious people reject science, nor do all scientists reject the practice of religion. It is perhaps in these border areas that new truths may become available to human beings. For now, if we say we know the true basis for understanding the universe, we deserve skepticism no matter what we claim that basis to be.

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Greetings all. First off, I'm a proud Atheist, Unitarian, Secular Humanist and Liberal. Those are, in order, my positions of the existance of deities, my religious affiliation, my personal philosophy and my political philosophy. I thoroughly loved the piece and love any challenge to entrenched, (mostly) unaccountable authority figures and the Catholic Church is number one on that list. Could you imagine a cult (which really is what new religions start out as) succeeding, starting today with the fundamental beliefs Catholics and other Christian believe as complete fact? Drinking wine and it turns into human blood?!? Eating a cracker and it turns into human flesh?!? A demi-god 'dies'...but not really... and that's supposed to mean something? An all-powerful, all-knowing deity that creates people knowing that they're going to do evil things to others and does nothing to prevent that? One person complained that the article displayed 'anger' against Catholicism.

(cont

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...need anymore be said...

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Church-State is like (Religous Organized Crime)-(Corporate Organized Crime) -well because the state is controlled by the corporate madness beings

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Superstition is a paradox: It's only a superstition when it's not, and it's not a superstition when it is.
Walking under a ladder is clearly a superstition, right? Our modern, reasoning brains wouldn't create a cause-and-effect link between doing so and the ensuing bad luck.
Conversely, the remission of an inoperable and terminal brain tumor -- which has several plausible, logical, sensible and reasonable cause-and-effect explanations -- is not a superstition; it's the will of God, the hand of the Almighty. (Never mind that "inoperable and terminal" is, in and of itself, a superstition.)
Face it -- we're all arguing from the same point of view: "My view is right." Consider that you don't know your @ss from a hole in the ground; NOW what are you going to do?

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ONE READS THE BIBLE AND INTERPETS ONE WAY AND THE OTHER READS THE BIBLE AND INTERPETS IT ANOTHER WAY. THE FUNNY THING ABOUT IT IS THAT THEY BOTH CAN BE RIGHT. THE BIBLE CONTAINS MANY MESSAGES FOR ALL THE FOLKS OF THE WORLD. MESSAGES THAT ARE ONLY MENT FOR YOU AND YOUR WALK IN LIFE. MESSAGES NOT MENT FOR OTHERS. THE BIBLE IS MANS TOOL TO TAP MIRACLES!!!!! FOR IT IS ONLY BY FAITH THAT MAN ACHIEVES HIS GEATEST ACHIEVEMENTS. FAITH IN GOD AND FAITH IN YOUR ABILITES WHICH BY THE WAY COME FROM GOD. WHY NOT GIVE IT A TRY???

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Yes! - Such as the disasterous social consequences so sure to follow an hopped-up belief in the obvious... Disagreeing with "the idea that beliefs can be sanctified other than by evidence", Harris in effect nominates science as the one true religion, that which alone may consecrate, purify, and render holy our beliefs. His followers rant like true believers. Note how quickly Morris runs to his scriptures, and see how fearfully he must first acknowledge "many dictionaries define superstition..." - Populism really has replaced democracy! To those who so fiercely value facts: the fact is propaganda really works - just look at your president!...Speaking poisonally, my superstition in the intelligence of the readership has been shattered here. Ow!

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In defense of Mr. Bryan, his reasoning was quite different from that of the zealots of today. He was afraid that the teaching of Darwinism would further embed ideas of Social Darwinism into society. And indeed, to this day, people use Darwinism to justify stratification, even in spite of contrary evidence and Darwin's own denial of such a connection.
While it is important to focus on science when in a science class, morals are of importance. Those who are against teaching evolution today are missing the point that Mr. Bryan had. It is not so important that a theory gets in the way of one's understanding of nature. What is important is that we do not let these theories take away our morals. Rather than teaching an alternative view of nature, schools should make sure to put a clear line between Darwinism and Social Darwinism. Isn't it ironic that today the devout find themselves aligned with a political philosophy that endorses the law of the jungle in our economic syste

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I am so thankful that people like David Morris and Sam Harris have the courage to expose the dangerous, inane superstitious basis of religion. Ridding the world of the scourge of religion seems like an impossible task, but it is certainly a task worth pursuing. Perhaps a task that we cannot afford not to undertake.

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One has to wonder if Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone's reaction has been misinterpreted since he seems to have actually read the book. After studying the text in question I also find it is more of a "fairy tale" just looking at the major plot twists that seem to be caused by a hand of god and not by good storytelling. So why shouldn't he advise christian bookstores not to carry this book?

Nethertheless the question of faith or superstition raised by the author is not an easy one. So it is not suprising to see how many people would rather believe in their personal god and have objectional persons removed in a humane way. Still this also means they have found their way to life their live and are happy enough to convince other people of it.

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David Morris quotes Sam Harris:

"...Why did 19 well-educated, middle class men trade their lives in this world for the privilege of killing thousands of our neighbors? Because they believed that they would go straight to paradise for doing so."

This doesn't ring true. Why did Travis and Bowie and their companions fight to the last man to defend the Alamo?

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Let me get this straight: Morris starts an article on reason by defending a piece of conspiracy-theory nonsense like The Da Vinci Code??? Please. Aside from the doctrinal/scriptural stuff, that book is based on wildly wrong and misread history. All reputable scholars know it's crap.

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I agree with David. The kind of faith that got Bush elected is little more than raw superstition. Below is an example I ran across in the April Smithsonian. It would be funny if it weren't true. (Professor Kurt Wise earned an undergraduate degree in geology from the University of Chicago and his PhD from Harvard. He even studied under Stephen J Gould, eminent paleontologist and anti-creationist. He teaches that the earth was created 6,000 years ago by god, and that The Grand Canyon was formed about 3,000 years ago in about one week. He states that "Scripture trumps interpretation of physical data".)

This kind of logic is downright spooky!

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Mayhap we should lighten up a bit? I'll wager 30 pieces of silver that "Red Conservative" knows David personally and is after his goat. Probably laughing his head off. After all, nobody who reads Alternet could be that pathetic -- I mean, fundamentalists are assholes, but not THAT assholish!
Monseignor Nicholas Dykema
Pastor, Druid Dagoba of the Divine
Cleveland, Ohio

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Postmodernism would suggest that there are no metanarratives, including not only religion but also science. It is more about one's individual interpretation of reality.

This article is more about power relations between people than the actual question of who is more right or wrong. (The content) Reason/Faith, Science/Relgion, Left/Right, etc. it is all so binary, two-dimensional. Certainly there are more complex perspectives then that! Please move on from the us vs. them arguments it is getting tired and limiting.

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Do an objective search of history and you will find that there is no historical evidence that a person, Jesus Christ, ever existed. That is a fact not an opinion. I have researched what historical OBJECTIVE, scientific scholars have to say about the veracity of historical proof of Jesus Christ - I do know about other religious figures. All religion is based on faith in things that can not be proven by reason or science. As for mentioning all the good people in religion and good things that religion has produced, that still is not an answer to the fact that religion is a superstitious institution. Good works based on superstitious ideas are just that. The point is no one has a problem with people who do good things for superstitious reasons. But when a group of people want to take over our government and laws, have control over my life and body, based on thier unproven, unreasonable and superstitious beliefs, I and many other people in America, do indeed have a BIG problem with that!

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YOU are calling science a religion. No one else has said anything like that. Why are you so afraid of the truth of science, and using facts and logic rather than emotion and faith in the invisible and unprovable, as our basis for making laws and government, even our basis for morals? I suppose you can believe in compassionate conservatism but not human compassion and love aligned with science?

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I often think of where in the world I would rather live than a country that is so concerned with what happens after you are dead, with what goes on in the privacy of other people's lives, and that living one's life according to a story that happened thousands of years ago - well, how in the world is all this applicable to the right here, right now of living.

we are here now, we are living now. now is all that matters.

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While I appreciate that people have a different take on religion and faith, I must say that reducing thousands of years of beliefs held by billions of people across the world to the same level of palm readers and mystics is not just irresponsible but also shows a huge lack of respect. While I would never defend some of the actions so called Christians make in the name of religion, I don't think I can sit back and not respond when people reduce all Christians and people of faith as blind sheep following some make-believe shepard. I have always said I feel bad for people who have to get through the day believing that they have nothing and no one to depend on but themselves. I am grateful for my faith and the ability to have faith in others, believers and non-believer alike.

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What religion is doing to our society is not good. No doubt about it, but true Christians hate religion, and if you were to read the bible, you would see that Jesus was the same. He fought with the religious prople of his day 24/7, and it was religion that killed him. Christianity is about a relationship with your creator, not religion. George Bush is NOT a christian in the true sense of the word, and neither are 80% of people who proclaim to be so.
Our government, and the people who "rule the world" are twisted and corrupted. Does it come as a surprise to you that they might use religion as a means to an end. Their version of christianity is what most people see, and unfortunately it seems to be the exact opposite of what the bible teaches.
I love this website, and as a true Christian, I can agree with most of what is posted here.
Read the bible, where there are no contradictions or facts to prove it wrong. And faith is not a scapegoat...facts are fac

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A science must be consistent and testable. Is Christianity? Let us examine the easy stage-consistency.
1. God is eternal and solo, so how or why would “It” be male or reproduce?
2. God commanded not to kill, without exceptions, then he orders his followers to kill or kills for them. His most devout followers demand capital punishment.Wow!
3, Jesus ordered his followers to pray in their chamber “Our Father...” but devotion appears measured by how loud you bray in public.
4. God made all people equal but one are his chosen people.
The Bible is full of such inconsistencies, so how would you even try to justify a test? The American Revolutionary writer, Thomas Paine said it best in a Paris jail during the French Revolution “On the road to Damascus Saul became Paul, Jesus became Christ and a new religion was born.”

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Science is not based on fear, as religion is, but on the search for truth and the human mind wondering how things work and why. Science is based on the freedom of thought. If something in the natural world is true, it is a fact, it will be proven to be true through the scientific method. All new ideas have to be proven to be true, results have to be repeatable and consistent. Comparing scientific institutions with religious institutions is comparing apples and oranges. They have some similiar characteristics, but religion is based on the unprovable - that there is a god and that this god must be obeyed or bad things will happen, or if obeyed good things will happen.

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I am a strong believer in God rather than a follower of a religion. I believe in a God who blessed us with free will, so that we may make our own decisions and learn from the consequences of those decisions. I do not believe in a God who would discourage us to seek answers when he created us with the wonderful ability to do so. As a non American observor it scares me to see how the current Governement is using God as way to install fear and discourage questioning to the point where any citizen who dares to question the decisions made is in danger of being labelled unpatriotic or a non believer. Why can't we follow our beliefs and values and let others do the same with theirs? Does it really matter what your neighbour believes if you are happy within yourself? It truly astonishes me how followers of religion can quote the Bible to support going to war yet seem to have forgot the all important passage "Love one another as I have loved you".

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When I studied Catholic theology, I was taught that faith did not contradict reason. By this, my professors meant that as we learn more about God's creation, the universe, we also realize the true underpinnings of our faith do not contradict science. As a Catholic, I know that the Bible is not to be taken literally. There are, of course, some Catholics, including Bishops who still take parts of the Bible literally but time and open theological discussion will resolve these issues. As Catholics, we are not opposed to teaching evolution in the schools nor do we wish to push prayer in the schools either.
Unfortunately, there are some unwise fundamental Catholics and some unwise Bishops who stupidly want to ban books. As a woman of faith, I am not afraid of scientific discoveries. The real question of faith is not the what of science but the application of science. That is where religion comes in - how do we choose what we should do among all of the things we can do?
RTresp

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I have a couple comments- one short, and the other long.

I don't care for the term "superstition." To me it's used by a colonial power to disenfranchise the world view of a vanquished people in order to modernize them, to bring them into the colonial system as a resource. Imperialists always call people they conquer superstitious, to devalue their intellectual and moral systems.

The second point is simply to suggest that people read Karen Armstrong's The Battle for God. Here's a recent interview of her:

http://www.shambhalasun.com/Archives/Features/2005/January/GodisBigTheseDays.htm

Here's a thought: do we read Genesis to understand how life came to this planet? Whether you're a Bible thumper or a scientist, the explanation given in the Bible is quite unsatisfactory when you look at the facts. Conversely, do we read a college text on paleontology to understand the significance of llife, or to speculate on our purpose in the world, our relation to the divine? Again, knowing about DNA and genetic mutations doesn't tell us much about why we live and what our purpose in life is.

Religion and science answer different questions that are equally important to people.

I think, for instance, that environmentalists (with which I identify), and fundies, have a couple things in common: both are nostalgic for a romanticized past; both are apprehensive about a dark future. These are reactions against the unprecedented rate of change that we all experience now.

Science tells us how the world seems to be working. But equally important is knowing why it's working the way it does.

I don't think the Dems have figured it out. What is our purpose in life? What is our nation's purpose? It needs to figure this out, and it may well embrace religion to do that. That's not a bad thing. Esp. if the alternative is the religion being churned out by the wingnuts on the right.

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God is the Creator:
You can prove there is a creator simply by looking at the creation:
For example:
Suppose you where traveling by train to New York City from the state of Pennsylvania. As you approach New York you pass under a very long tunnel and when you look out the window as the tunnel ends you happen to notice among the wild flowers some large stones on a mountain side across the other side of the valley. The stones where shaped in such a way as to reveal a message: WELCOME TO NEW YORK
Now, when you see this sign you can think two things,
One though you could have is- “Wow, I can’t believe that those stones over there happens to fall from the mountaintop in such a way as to make a really nice welcome sign!” or you could say “Someone with an intelligent mind must have went out there and moved those stones to make a welcome sign!” What would you think?
You see, not only are the stones arranged in a unique order, unlike all the other stones you have seen that make a chaotic formation in the rest of the mountain rages of the world! It happened to form is a language you can understand, that is dominate in the nation you live in, and is revealing a location you are about to enter! You would have to be a fool not to think that an intelligent designer created it, because it most definitely didn’t form that way by evolution, or by the forces of nature, but by an intelligent designer!
When you look upon just one human cell, it is so much more vastly complicated then any stone formation! It has much a greater purpose then any sign, and is greatly more valuable in such a smaller package. People assume because it is an organic substance, or because it is so complex that it means it is more possible for it to have occurred by mere chance? That makes no since. If I saw very complex building material, cut shaved down, with neon lights on that mountainside- I wouldn’t say to myself “Wow, because its so complex, that sign MUST have been created by a great weather storm, some random chemicals and some trees thrown together in a tornado?!” No way I would be even more a fool, the vas complexity that you can even think and read this right now is PROOF positive that God created you, and you where created for a purpose- to have a relationship with Him!

Onetruth360@hotmail.com

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Do you think you are a good person?
Most people do!
But let me ask you a few questions:
Have you ever told a lie before? Most of us have, so what does that make you? Do you say, I’m certainly not a liar, well, how many lies do you have to tell to be called a liar, do you tell a certain number then a magic bell goes off you are consider a liar?
Have you ever stolen anything? The Value is irrelevant to the God who sees all thing? A pencil, paper pad from someone you know, or from work?
Have you ever looked at a woman with lust in your heart? The Lord Jesus said if you have ever even looked at a woman with lust you have committed adultery in your heart (Matt 5.28)!
You say, I haven’t done those things in years; but time forgives no sin, to God aeons are like days in His sight. By your own conviction, your conscience tells you are guilty; you are a lying, adulterous thief, and on judgment day God will reveal the intentions of your heart, and you will be found guilty before a pure and Holy God, and cast into eternal hell.

God loves us so much that He died on the cross for us. He shed his blood so that all those who believe in Him would be covered by His blood and be saved and forgiven, to be with Him forever in heaven. God says that everyone who transgresses His holy law, is deserving of death and hell, but he endured the agonies of hell for us, and if your turn to His give Him your life in repentance, Make God your delight and treasure, trust in Him with all your heart, and believe in Him- you will be saved. Many turn to God because they want something in return, because they just want the hope of heaven, and then eventually turn back to their old ways of life. But the bible says that God is our treasure and our reward. If you Worship God alone, make the Lord God your source of satisfaction and trust in Him and all His promises, if you choose to see sin the way that He sees sin only then will you learn to hate sin, and see how exceedingly evil sin really is! God is the giver of every good thing and pleasures are at His right hand forever more! People search for satisfaction all the days of their life, finding themselves emptier as they proceed through their life, because they fill their heart with sin, But God gives us The Rock solid Hope of Heaven, The Joy of the Holy Spirit and peace of mind and soul; along with Tribulation and persecution to make our faith grow!

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Recently, C-SPAN covered a conference by a group of Christians determined to take over the entire judicial branch of the United States Government because of the Terry Schiavo decision. Here's what some of them had to say:

Bill Federer: President of Amerisearch:
"Im not making this up, this is a quote from the Unites States Supreme Court in 1963 Abbington Township versus Schiff, the court said 'the state may not establish a religion of secularism in the sense of affirmitively apposing or showing hostility to religion.' Thus preferring those who believe in no religion over those that do believe."

Don Feder: Vision America Communications director
"The divison of power the limitations of power is what really is the framework of freedom and the backbone of freedom. If we don't understand that the solution to this problem is to have limitations on the powers of the court. We've got to rein in the power structure of the court. We've got to think like the founding fathers, and rein in the power structures not just in small ways, but in systematic ways where the courts can no longer make dec.. make law, where their decisions decide the despute between roe and wade. They do not make a law on abortion for all countries."

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David Morrisons article is one long in coming and should be welcomed by all who value reason above supertsition. From the 6th to the 15th century, Europe was governed by the the whims of superstition, the church. It was not until the Age of Reason, that humanity in Europe began to throw off the yoke of religious dogma as a dominant force in their everyday lives. It was a time when rational thought became prevalent in a small but influential minority, who dared propose that the universe was not what the church said it was. For their "heretical" beliefs some were burned at the stake, others imprisoned and others threatened if they did not renounce their conclusions based on sound scientific obsrvations. The Plague of 1346-1349 was variously blamed on the wrath of god for man's sins. With observation and rational study, several centuries later we now know that a common bacterium Yersinia pestis, is the cause and can be eradicated with a common antibiotic, Erythromycin. Rational study of the world around us has given us insight into the evolution of life, including ourselves, the mechanics of the universe, the idea of the foundation of matter itself. All these things came about not as a result of superstition but using our brains and thinking--rationally! The idea that a catholic prelate should even think of banning a book smacks of the censorship of ideas so common in the middle ages and even during the rennaisance, and yes, during the early years of the last century during the reign of Adolf Hitler and even today in certain totalitarian societies that fear an open inquisitive mind.
We now have an Administration that supports this kind of thinking, and supports "faith based' institutions as a formal part of this government. This administration has banned stem cell research has condoned the teaching of creationism as a scientific alternative to what we know is scientifically sound. It is not the Administration that is the problem but the small majority of irrational religious zealots that put it in Washington.
We need more people to speak out against the growing atmosphere of irrational religious dogma that seems to be gaining prominance in this country. We are losing our edge in the sciences not only in the schools but already in the scientific community where more scientific papers are now published outside of this country than in it.

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David Morris’s piece The End of Reason was a joy to read. Not that it will have much effect on your average fundo. In 1992 my (then) 16 y.o. son spent two months billeted with a “typical Texan family” in Austin on an US-Australian school exchange program. Reluctantly, he took part in after-school Bible classes. Coming from a non-religious household and enrolled in the science streams at high school, he quizzed his God-fearing colleagues about everything. Sadly, every request for evidence, every observation based on logic was met with either hostility or incredulity. One boy sought to compare proof of his god’s existence with the law of gravity. “You can’t see it but you know it’s there!” Having severely dented that argument by dropping the boy’s book out of the window, my son was told wearily, “oh, you just have to have faith.”

On returning home, my son opined that if Texas was typical then the US is in big trouble. Rather prophetic as, scarily, these type of Texans now have their fingers on the "nukelar" trigger.

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No religion can be proven true. Unfortunately, all the reason and logic in the world can't prove that religion is false. The fact that religious people suck doesn't make them wrong.

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THE NEW REPUBLICAN HERD

They don’t vote with their hearts and they don’t vote with their heads...they vote with their party.

GATHERING THE HERD

A new breed of lawmakers has lumbered onto Capitol Hill. They represent no one. They ignore their constituencies. They are blind to the issues that confront the nation. They cast their votes with no regard for the will of the people.

Their voting pattern is a window into their mindset and philosophy: They don’t vote with their hearts and they don’t vote with their heads. They vote only in lockstep and only as directed. One for all, and all for one, they dutifully vote with their party.

They are the new, mindless and obedient herd of George W. Bush Republicans.

Totally submissive, the GWB Republican herd methodically falls in line. Not unlike the suicidal terrorists they are taught to loathe, they follow their leader even if it means their own demise. They protect the corporations that poison the very air they have to breathe. They vote to eliminate the civil rights that are rightfully theirs. They vote billions of their own tax dollars to the Halliburtons of the world, even as they watch the quality of life around them crumble.

With each bill they pass, they and their nation suffer. With each law they support, they and the American people lose out. They seem to accept their own self-deprivation with stoic stupidity. How reminiscent of the pledge in Animal House who, after each paddle to his bottom, cried out: Thank you, sir. May I have another? And sure enough, they soon have another chance to perform to whip of their trainer.

Read about:
FOLLOWING THE HERD, PRAYING WITH THE HERD, and what can be done about DISPERSING THE HERD:
RIGHT HERE

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SAN FRANCISCO - A woman who founded a humanitarian group to aid civilian casualties in Iraq has died in a car bombing in Baghdad, officials said Sunday.

Marla Ruzicka, founder of Campaign for Innocent Victims in Conflict, died Saturday in the blast, which also killed an Iraqi and another foreigner, officials said. She had been in Iraq conducting door-to-door surveys trying to determine the number of civilian casualties in the country.

Like all liberal appeasers, she was eager to lick the boot that kicked her.


She was only anti-war when America was fighting the war. If Castro wants to murder people in Angola, she's not "anti-war." Nor is she "anti-war" if islamists, communists or any other enemy of America wants to engage in war. When Saddam was torturing and murdering hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and gassing others to death, she wasn't too concerned.

May her anti-American a$$ rest in peace!

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Your'e eloquent statement regarding the necessity of a creator because of the complexity of a cell or the complexity of the universe and using a simplistic analogy to justify your argument unfortunately doesn't hold any scientific water. The problem with your argument is that the causation for each is different. To assume that a creator was involved just because something appears so complex that in your mind you cannot phathom the idea that natural forces were responsible without any one individual getting involved, including a so called deity is pure religious dogma for which there isn't a shred of scientific evidence. Now before you go and say, "well you can't prove that god didn't do it" remember that those who make a claim are responsible for providing incontrovertible evidence substantiate that claim. It is not up to the individual who doesn't buy your claim for lack of evidence to disprove anything. The scientific process does not deal with supernatural belief systems, only with things observable and measurable. Just because people cannot accept that the forces of nature are solely responsible for the universe and all that it holds, becasue that is where the evidence has led us, doesn't make the argument of a creator valid. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Thus far that has not been forthcoming from anything other than scientific investigation.

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One things I've noticed about alot of the anti-religion crowd's posts is that when they're slamming the bible, they're quoting from the Old Testament. Now, I'm the first to admit that the old Testament is full of ludicrous statements and contradictions. It is my opinion that the Old Testament is nothing but Jewish myth, lore and history. Parts of it may be God inspired but I believe a great majority of it was to justify the actions of the early Jews.

The point where EVERYTHING changes is when God sees just how fallen the world has become and decides to intervene directly in the form of Jesus. The New Testament is where it's at as far as I'm concerned. I believe in the teachings of Jesus. I challenge you to find anything negative about Jesus' teachings.

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Consider the 7 million plus on this planet: statistics are slippery, but perhaps 50 - 70% are illiterate, for most practical purposes. To be extensively literate and have any freedom of expression and personal choice is rare. To the author: you are therefore in an extreme minority by virtue of education and freedom. Consider your bias.

Consider the many in such places as Africa, south America, Asia, Native America - a multitude of (primarily tribal) people who might be described as "superstitious" by the fact of their belief in unseen entities (God, angels, demons, whatever). Along comes Eurocentric "knowledge" and "education" which describes the beliefs of these people as "superstitious."

Perhaps because the author is "educated" on elite Eurocentric terms, the term "superstition" is thrown around in a derogatory way. Because by the terms of the author's arguments, the majority of people on the planet would be described as "superstitious."

Isn't that conceit at work, to presume that the majority of people on earth are wrong - "if you can't see it, it's not there?" Does this belief in empiricism not stem from Teutonic Europe? Did the Teutonic "Enlightenment" traditions not serve up Catholic intolerance, Hitler, and about everything that exalts empiricism at the expense of the unseen? Is this European authority to be therefore elevated above all other knowledge on earth, the ultimate authority on judging "knowledge" as above the "superstition" at work in the third world?

Maybe the author has it all upside down. Maybe most of the TRIBAL people in this world know something he does not. Maybe the author's education delivered him of his best senses.

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THE NEW REPUBLICAN HERD

They don’t vote with their hearts and they don’t vote with their heads...they vote with their party.

GATHERING THE HERD

A new breed of lawmakers has lumbered onto Capitol Hill. They represent no one. They ignore their constituencies. They are blind to the issues that confront the nation. They cast their votes with no regard for the will of the people.

Their voting pattern is a window into their mindset and philosophy: They don’t vote with their hearts and they don’t vote with their heads. They vote only in lockstep and only as directed. One for all, and all for one, they dutifully vote with their party.

They are the new, mindless and obedient herd of George W. Bush Republicans.

Totally submissive, the GWB Republican herd methodically falls in line. Not unlike the suicidal terrorists they are taught to loathe, they follow their leader even if it means their own demise. They protect the corporations that poison the very air they have to breathe. They vote to eliminate the civil rights that are rightfully theirs. They vote billions of their own tax dollars to the Halliburtons of the world, even as they watch the quality of life around them crumble.

With each bill they pass, they and their nation suffer. With each law they support, they and the American people lose out. They seem to accept their own self-deprivation with stoic stupidity. How reminiscent of the pledge in Animal House who, after each paddle to his bottom, cried out: Thank you, sir. May I have another? And sure enough, they soon have another chance to perform to whip of their trainer.


Read about:
FOLLOWING THE HERD, PRAYING WITH THE HERD, and DISPERSING THE HERD:
HERE

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In George Lakoff's book Don't Think of an Elephant he makes it clear how ideas (mis-readings) about God underpin the entire worldview, and the moralistic thinking of right wing ideology. Why then does not Morris draw on those scholars who are showing that the New Testament Gospels are merely works of literature--and according to Joseph Atwill in his amazing new book Caesar's Messiah, were written by the Romans as deliberate fakes to deceive the Jews into worshipping a false pacifistic messiah who would be Caesar in disguise. If Atwill is right then Christianity is simply a form of ancient war propaganda--like those stories about the rape and torture of Private Jessica Lynch--created to deceive a gullible public.

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Don't remember who said that but I beleve it's a good quote about the subject:

"Religion is the opium of the people"

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"The American Heritage Dictionary defines superstition as "a belief, practice or rite irrationally maintained by ignorance of the laws of nature" and "a fearful or abject state resulting from such ignorance or irrationality.""

Does this not describe people who still think democracy is functioning on a national level at the hands of the current administration?

The "leaders" of the "Christian right" business in Washington, D.C., are succeeding by conflating religious issues with the superstition that national democracy is a functional game. They would dress themselves in any argument to pull this off. It just so happens that Christianity sells these days.

What is so disturbing about the article is that it is primarily highly anecdotal, and those anecdotes pertain to limited spheres of JudeoChristianity. Superstition, as a term, indicts absolutely all beliefs which can not be empirically proven. For that reason I find the argument extremely ethnocentric, and unnecessarily mean to all Christians on account of the acts of the corrupt people in Washington (ever heard the one about wolves in sheep's clothing?).

What really indicates weak scholarship, too, is that the author got all the way through his critique of religion/government without mentioning Karl Rove. Which makes me wonder if the author comprehends the stuntsmanship of this administration at all, or if the author is aware of the Project for the New American Century (www.newamericancentury.org), or many other issues. Attacking Christians for the deeds of the Bush regime is as low as people attacking Jews in general for the acts of the few people (primarily Romans) who crucified Christ. It is scapegoating at its worst.

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Humanity became civilized repeatedly due to various oppressions...sometimes religious, sometimes not. Reminds me of people who quit smoking, over and over again.

There seems no example of civilization without oppression.

But do we want to repeat humanity's past failures?

I dislike the smug posturings of new age religionists and philosophers even more than I dislike hillbilly preachers with big hair. I dislike both of them more than I dislike Jesuits. I trust my Deceit Detector.

"Faith" is a decision to stop asking questions, to surrender to fear of doubt.

Religion is the opiate of the masses. It's the single biggest roadblock to development of civil civilization.

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To some, it's just great to believe in something, isn't ... yeah it is. You WANT to believe in something so righteous, awesome and pure... its like a narcotic and it differs much from reason and logic. Some like to think for themselves but some need a drug to the promise land of heaven.

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If it's not the catholics and little boys, it's baptists, assembly of god types, and your Wallet. Religion IS the new politics,
and putting God(TM, (c)2001, all rights reserved) all over
stuff is just a vain attempt to legitimize warmed-over cereal-
box piety, best evidence of this is the complete and total utter
silence of all these Organized 'Christians' during the Iraq war
at the deaths of iraqi civilians, as well as the studied ignorance
of issues such as Rwanda and Sudan that could well be called
'genocide' by anyone's measure.

Just because you go staggering around preaching high moral virtue to all and sundry whilst clutching your favorite piece of religious literature closely to your bosom doesn't make you a Holy Man, unless you count charlatans like Jim Bakker, Robert Tilton, and the like as 'holy men'. The only way they can be fairly described in my view at least is as blatant charlatans, the proverbial money-changers that Jesus(of christian lore) attempted to throw out of the temple ages ago.

America's being taken to the cleaners by legions of the
would-be Devout, whose only True Religion is the worship
of the almighty dollar, and whose church studies amount to
fund-raising tactics that would embarass even your most
crooked of politicians, but all is conveniently whitewashed
and legitimized by close proximity to the Cloth, and it's assumed moral superiority and innocence of any wrong-doing
whatsoever.

Churches have been tax shelters for decades, and as an
institution are overdue for a good thorough once-over with the
de-lousing comb. Only when that gets accomplished on a
semi-regular basis will they re-achieve whatever legitimacy
they might have once had. But, until then, I'll stay away from
the bible-thumpers, so long as they stay away from me LOL

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I agree with a lot of what is said in the article by David Morris. I am a spiritual person. To be more specific, a Christian. And, to anyone who wantes even more detail, a Roman Catholic.

In the world I live in today the physical is as much a mystery as is the spiritual. Although the passing of ages has brought revelation in both. Science being the instrument used to uncover truth in the physical world, religion being the instrument which we use to uncover truth in the spiritual. In both regards, our knowledge is today only a fraction of what it will be centuries from now. However, I do believe we have uncovered Laws in both. Thankfully, according to my understanding of the research, these Laws do not contradict, they are interconneced. As they are all that we have, they are enough. The pursuit of answers and explanations beyond these is a noble and necessary cause, yet, let it not justify disregarding what we arleady know to be True.

In my view, David Morris suffers from the same faults as those who he attacks in his article. Science is as much a superstition as religion. Relying on it's Laws alone to guide your life today will bear the same result as any Christian, Muslim, Jew or Hindu who relies only on their Laws to guide them.

It 's your choice whether you go on to call people and institutions of faith - superstitious. But in so doing I hope you agree that science, and those who rely on it alone for their truth's and laws are as equally superstitious. In this way I guess we are all a bunch of Gypsies.

If not for this I fear I might actually agree with Justice Scalia when as cited in the article he so eloquently speaks for all of us Christians. "The more Christian a country is the less likely it is to regard the death penalty as immoral," he observed. "I attribute that to the fact that, for the believing Christian, death is no big deal."

What a jackass.......

http://sdnrnr.blogspot.com/

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The irony is David Morris seems so antiquated in both his 'faith' in 'reason' (especially in light of the works of Alasdair MacIntyre, Hilray Putnam and his philosophical successors, e.g., Richard Rorty) and in what I perceive to be either a sophmoric confidence in or inexcusable ignorance of his own modernistic presuppositions. Its as though he has been living in a cave for the past forty years, or in some atheistic cloister.

There are also profound misunderstandings evident in his analysis of religion. For example, in stating that, “…religion requires faith and faith renounces evidence," he only reveals his staggering ignorance of, at least, historic Christianity. He goes on to say, "Taking a proposition "on faith" means to consciously and willfully refuse to examine the facts.” What? Apparently, David, you have never read the Apostle Paul, St. Augustine, St. Aquinas, Calvin, or anyone else worth mentioning in the history Christian thought. Please get your facts straight BEFORE engaging in criticism. True (constructive) criticism is good; ignorance is not.

But, since this fundamental premise of the nature of faith is confused, everything that follows is thus tainted. And so he continues to paint religion with a black, broad brush, with the result that those who are committed to the historic faith(s) he castigates will hardly recognize his strawmen reconstructions.

There are many other examples of his confusion, but space constraints do not allow.

He then goes on to explain "why the word God does not appear in the U.S. Constitution," - namely, that it would encourage fanatics and destroy the light of reason, to briefly paraphrase.

But then why include it in the Declaration of Independence? Ironically, the rights of man are founded upon the reality of the Creator and His creation of mankind as equal (per the founding documents themselves). Here is the fatal flaw of atheistic humanism: on what moral grounds do we assume the existence, even the significance (as in meaningfulness) of human rights?

Its not all bad, he assures us concerning religion. Apparently religion is okay when it consoles in death and grief with its 'superstitions'. The problem is when "they [believers(!)] actually believe what they say they believe." And this is rational?

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