COMMENTS: 43
Krugman: It Seems Like Washington Wants Another Financial Disaster
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When I first began writing for The Times, I was naïve about many things. But my biggest misconception was this: I actually believed that influential people could be moved by evidence, that they would change their views if events completely refuted their beliefs.
And to be fair, it does happen now and then. I’ve been highly critical of Alan Greenspan over the years (since long before it was fashionable), but give the former Fed chairman credit: he has admitted that he was wrong about the ability of financial markets to police themselves.
But he’s a rare case. Just how rare was demonstrated by what happened last Friday in the House of Representatives, when — with the meltdown caused by a runaway financial system still fresh in our minds, and the mass unemployment that meltdown caused still very much in evidence — every single Republican and 27 Democrats voted against a quite modest effort to rein in Wall Street excesses.
Let’s recall how we got into our current mess.
America emerged from the Great Depression with a tightly regulated banking system. The regulations worked: the nation was spared major financial crises for almost four decades after World War II. But as the memory of the Depression faded, bankers began to chafe at the restrictions they faced. And politicians, increasingly under the influence of free-market ideology, showed a growing willingness to give bankers what they wanted.
The first big wave of deregulation took place under Ronald Reagan — and quickly led to disaster, in the form of the savings-and-loan crisis of the 1980s. Taxpayers ended up paying more than 2 percent of G.D.P., the equivalent of around $300 billion today, to clean up the mess.
But the proponents of deregulation were undaunted, and in the decade leading up to the current crisis politicians in both parties bought into the notion that New Deal-era restrictions on bankers were nothing but pointless red tape. In a memorable 2003 incident, top bank regulators staged a photo-op in which they used garden shears and a chainsaw to cut up stacks of paper representing regulations.
And the bankers — liberated both by legislation that removed traditional restrictions and by the hands-off attitude of regulators who didn’t believe in regulation — responded by dramatically loosening lending standards. The result was a credit boom and a monstrous real estate bubble, followed by the worst economic slump since the Great Depression. Ironically, the effort to contain the crisis required government intervention on a much larger scale than would have been needed to prevent the crisis in the first place: government rescues of troubled institutions, large-scale lending by the Federal Reserve to the private sector, and so on.
Given this history, you might have expected the emergence of a national consensus in favor of restoring more-effective financial regulation, so as to avoid a repeat performance. But you would have been wrong.
Talk to conservatives about the financial crisis and you enter an alternative, bizarro universe in which government bureaucrats, not greedy bankers, caused the meltdown. It’s a universe in which government-sponsored lending agencies triggered the crisis, even though private lenders actually made the vast majority of subprime loans. It’s a universe in which regulators coerced bankers into making loans to unqualified borrowers, even though only one of the top 25 subprime lenders was subject to the regulations in question.
Oh, and conservatives simply ignore the catastrophe in commercial real estate: in their universe the only bad loans were those made to poor people and members of minority groups, because bad loans to developers of shopping malls and office towers don’t fit the narrative.
In part, the prevalence of this narrative reflects the principle enunciated by Upton Sinclair: “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” As Democrats have pointed out, three days before the House vote on banking reform Republican leaders met with more than 100 financial-industry lobbyists to coordinate strategies. But it also reflects the extent to which the modern Republican Party is committed to a bankrupt ideology, one that won’t let it face up to the reality of what happened to the U.S. economy.
So it’s up to the Democrats — and more specifically, since the House has passed its bill, it’s up to “centrist” Democrats in the Senate. Are they willing to learn something from the disaster that has overtaken the U.S. economy, and get behind financial reform?
Let’s hope so. For one thing is clear: if politicians refuse to learn from the history of the recent financial crisis, they will condemn all of us to repeat it.
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Posted by: mmckinl on Dec 16, 2009 12:12 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would expect a column like this from a sophomore in college ... but 'ol Shifty knows the ropes ...
This is just more pabulum from the Prince of Pabulum ...
GEE Paul maybe it has something to do with political contributions, lobbyists, post political employment in certain industries for self, relatives or friends ...
Maybe Paul, it is time to get angry, to send a message to Capitol Hill ...
Read Paul's New Book: The Audacity of Pabulum ...
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» Go back and re-read it:
Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Go back and re-read it: Read it ... and read this ...
Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: Go back and re-read it: Read it ... and read this ...
Posted by: photon's feather
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Posted by: blip9 on Dec 16, 2009 12:34 AM
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Dec 16, 2009 12:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Enough said.
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Posted by: Lese Majeste on Dec 16, 2009 2:08 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There hasn't been a dime's worth of difference between the Repubs and Dems since the late 1980's and yet you act like there is.
The only major party that is in control is the 'Corporate War Party' that serves Wall Street and Israel and uses the Pentagon to do so.
The vast majority of Dems and Repubs are spineless Wall Street bag men and women that worship at the altar of death and destruction, AKA the 'Judaic Death Cult', or ZIONISM.
They don't give a damn about We the People, since they spend their time kissing up to Israel and handing over trillions of OUR money to Wall Street to cover their bad gambling debts.
A good example is the "Iran Sanctions Act" which passed the US Knesset--formerly known as the US House--yesterday.
The act is basically an act of economic war against another of Israel's 'existential' enemies, Iran, that the Apartheid Entity has declared it wants destroyed.
The vote was 10 against, 3 Not Voting and the rest, a resounding "AYE."
More war on innocents, more American kids killed and the further wrecking of our economy all to benefit Apartheid Israel.
All funded by Wall Street banks who are making a killing off these wars.
All approved by a cowardly, corrupt Congress and spineless WH who exist to serve Israel.
Mr. Krugman, either you've been taking some 'stupid pills' or you're just part of the controlled opposition.
Either way, what a loss of talent.
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» RE: Mr. Krugman, don't believe your lying eyes
Posted by: Belegandir
» I agree excellent
Posted by: CLARENCE SWINNEY
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Perry Logan on Dec 16, 2009 2:41 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and not even see Barack Obama's name. Like most progs, Paul is taking it easy on The Worst Democrat Ever™.
Was it not Obama who immediately hired all the incompetent neocons to be in his cabinet?
Why, yes it was.
Was it not the Bamanator who poured trillions into the crooked banks--no questions asked--something no Democrat in history has ever done?
It was indeed.
It is surreal how progressives have completely forgotten the Clinton Administration's excellent performance on the economy--no doubt because it messes up their paradigm.
One commenter says there isn't a dime's worth of difference between the Republicans and the Democrats--a sentiment one often hears in political circles.
But this completely ignores Clinton, who turned the biggest deficit in U.S. history into the biggest surplus, ushering in the longest period of economic expansion in U.S. history, with plummeting poverty rates and higher income at all levels. Clinton even managed to cut the rate of rise in healthcare costs from 10% to 3%.
Not bad for an evil DLC Democrat. No wonder progressives like to ignore his record.
The Clinton record on the economy suggests three things:
1) Even a moderate Democrat can do wonders for the economy,
2) Obama is not a Democrat, and
3) People who bash the Clintons are full of sh*t.
The Hall of Republican Memes
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» RE: Don't forget Chicago Blue Dog No. 1!
Posted by: pawheel
» And Slick Willie pushed thru NAFTA and gutted the Glass-Steagall Act
Posted by: Lese Majeste
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Dec 16, 2009 2:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In fact they have allowed 'titans of Industry' to return to their Robber Baron ways, as well.
There were Rules to the Road, because history had taught us through experience, if not just example.
Wealth never trickles down, it gets siphoned off. "A Free market" requires Accessiblity, not deregulation. Designations of 'Taxpayer' and 'consumer' are reliant on the earning ability of their 'Worker' status.
The Regulations and laws passed after the Great Depression were not suggestions. They were put in place to protect the American people and our nation from another near collapse.
The Neo Cons and their 'Third Way' Blue Laps Dogs, intentionally with forethought and malice, drove this country back into a Depression. They shouldn't just be ignored, but prosecuted.
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» RE: conomic Treason...Hello PG
Posted by: Captainmagic
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Posted by: Todd McClintock on Dec 16, 2009 3:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Actually Krugman, we already knew that.
Posted by: Bob Horn
» Oh, listen to clever chops.
Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Actually Krugman, we already knew that.
Posted by: Pericles
Comments are closed-
Posted by: timenotonmyside on Dec 16, 2009 6:02 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, Americans who do have at least 2 brains cells rubbing together are truely powerless to do anything, simply because our government is no longer by the people and for the people.
Both democrats and republicans are bought and paid for by corporate America.
It will take more than campaign finance reform, term limits and all those other progressive ideas floating about.
It's time to take to the streets and fight our corrupt government.
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Dec 16, 2009 7:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is only going to be thru the collective anger and effort of the electorate that will accomplish anything! FDR once told a progressive that he had good ideas, "now make me do it" - the people have forgotten, power concedes nothing without a demand! And it with the collective anger that Americans need to stand together and start demanding!
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» RE: What really needs to happen.......... Register Green!
Posted by: mmckinl
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Posted by: ClassAct on Dec 16, 2009 7:14 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nevertheless the Democrats should take a look at their own history of the 20th century and note that the only Democratic administrations that were succeeded by Democratic administrations were those in which the chief executive was widely considered to be, or at least had the reputation of, being a leftist. Failure to move left will always restore Republicans to the White House because the Democrats failure will alienate their only swing constituency. If leftists will not go to the polls because Democrats have used them as hostages again, Republicans will win every time.
And the moral is: Do the right thing or die.
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» RE: "And the moral is: Do the right thing or die. "
Posted by: oregoncharles
» NOT CARTER
Posted by: CLARENCE SWINNEY
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Posted by: oregoncharles on Dec 16, 2009 8:11 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Answer: dream on.
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Posted by: SteveO on Dec 16, 2009 8:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: JSquercia on Dec 16, 2009 9:09 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are incensed at the Bailout of Wall Street and the return of the arrogance of the Wall Street Crowd who shamelessly award themselves HUGE Bonuses while the average American is hanging on by a thread. They have to be convinced by people like Elizabeth Warren that if we don't hang together we most assuredly will hang Separately .
Let them see that too big to fail is by definition too big to exist . These huge companies MUST be broken up for the sake of the country . We must restore the regulations that confined Commercial Banking from Investment Banking from Insurance . We must look at the whole idea of derivatives and their ilk are nothing more than gambling and hose so engaged FORFEIT any access to Government guarantees .
We must Investigate like the Secura Commission did and we must hold responsible those who helped perpetuate this fraud . This should start with the Mortgage Companies who created these bad mortgages and collected millions in fees before sending them off to be sliced and diced by Wall Street . A good place to start would be the Rating agencies who gave AAA ratings to what was essential CRAP .
I think it is time to purge those who were so disastrously WRONG ( people like Summers ,Rubin , Bernanke and Geithner ) and listen to the people who got it RIGHT ( people like Warren , Black and Born)
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Posted by: weslen1 on Dec 16, 2009 9:11 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
AND, as long as those "POOR" aren't going to be in the PICTURE any longer there's NO NEED to REGULATE the WONDERFUL financial "market" and cost those misunderstood, kind, loving, wonderful, generous financial geniuses ONE SINGLE PENNY of their HARD EARNED blood money!
WHO CARES about all those MIDDLE INCOME rubes who, through no ones fault but their OWN made bad investments and LOST all their retirement funds and 401k funds and life savings? THEY SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER! THEY should have KNOWN all those "POOR" people would default once their balloon payments came due.
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» + RE:pub poor who support all this against their own interest-tricked by Limbaugh, Beck, & Bill O'
Posted by: blurider
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Posted by: CLARENCE SWINNEY on Dec 16, 2009 9:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who will tell the people?
EMPIRE DESTRUCTION
1980 to 2007
20 YEARS OF 3 CONSERVATIVE PRESIDENTS
18 years Conservative Senate
12 years Conservative House
6 years Total Conservative Control
Redistribution of Wealth to top 20%.
Folk! It is downhill slide for Middle Class.
FACTS---numbers rounded-
1946--1% owned 30% of Total Wealth
1980—20%--a 33% decline due to Estate Tax and High Top Income Tax Rate.
thence cometh conservatism
1989-36%
80% Increase in 8 years of Reaganism
1993-47%
2007--20% owned 93% of Total non home Financial Wealth
80% owned equity in homes.
Most major corporations are owned by WALL STREET RICH MEN CASINO
In 1945, corporations paid 35.4% of federal revenues and 7.4% in 2003
In 2000, 45% of corporations with revenue over 50 million paid no federal tax
Five Wall Street Banks own 75% of all Bank Deposits in America. 5.
Two own 20%.
Think that is not POWER???
FACT CHECK
In 8 years of Bush with 6 years of Total Control
They (wall street rich) created a Net New Jobs of 3000 per month.
Why? That is NET. You take the new jobs created and subtract the ones sent to China, etc
3000! Wow!
Bush took over after Clinton had created 237,000 Net New Jobs per month.
Clinton left Bush a spending of 1830 B Per Year.
Bush doubled it to 3600 B.
Bush inherited a 5700B Debt from Clinton. He took it to 11,500B
20 years of 3 conservative presidents did this horrible thing.
Took the Debt of less than 1000B after 200 years and added on 8000B.
In 2009 they are spinning big time to blame Obama for huge debt.
Conservatives will spend millions to coverup their Big Recession.
Much of that 8000B Debt add-on went to WALL STREET GAMBLERS.
The people do not know what has happened to them.
Forbes list of 400 Richest reveals how many became Billionaires via corporate
takeovers and Hedge Gambling
Right Wingers yell Rich Pay most of taxes.
Income Taxes!Yes! They have most of the money.
Yet! Conservatives transferred much of taxation from Rich to Middle Class. Reagan voiding REVENUE SHARING a disaster for Middle Class where taxes were transferred from Rich Income taxes to Middle Class in State and Local Taxes. Was it by design?
Was it a Designed Act of taxation transfer by Conservatives.
In 2008 the Middle Class paid 30% of nominal Income in Federal-State-Local Taxes.
Top 10% paid 30% also. Progressive tax system?
Social Security Tax Increase in 1983 was it designed to hit the Middle Class and ease on the rich?
Greenspan + Reagan. 6.2% Tax on Middle Class. One earns $50,000 pays 6.2%. Earns $1,000,00 pays 6.4%. Earns $10,000,000 pays 1/10th of 1%. By design to keep rich rich?
Was Destruction of S&Ls a deliberate act of wealth transfer from 400 local investors to individual Rich on Wall Street?
Key actor Michael Milken became a Multiple Billionaire with income of 550 Million in one year from raiding S&L deposits (plus) for his Rich Corporate Raiders on Wall Street.
Raiders like Perelman and Ichan became multiple Billionaires.
Sweat of Brow? Ho Ho.
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» RE: conservative destroy II of II
Posted by: CLARENCE SWINNEY
» RE: conservative destroy II of II
Posted by: JSquercia
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Posted by: CLARENCE SWINNEY on Dec 16, 2009 9:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Affordable Homes
Affordable Education
Do not Repeat This Past
1980-1% owned 20% of Total Wealth
1989-1% owned 36% of Total Wealth
Reagan policies -deliberate redistribution with 80% more to top 1%.
Bush policies finished the attack on the Middle Class
2007-20% owned 93% of Total Wealth
2007--80% owned equity in homes for 7% of total
2008--Rich of Rich paid 30% of Total Income in Federal-State-Local Taxes.
2008--Middle Class paid same 30%
America is on a Decline slope folks. No doubt.
Elect Conservatives to hasten that decline to bottom where 5% own 95% of our Wealth.
HaitiAmerica.
cswinney2@triad.rr.com
Disagree then prove me wrong -- facts and numbers-- not name calling
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Posted by: CLARENCE SWINNEY on Dec 16, 2009 10:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GDP--rose from 6300 to 11,600
NATIONAL INCOME-5,000 to 8,000 Billion--took 20 years to grow 2500B before Clinton
JOBS CREATED--over 22 million--record by far
AVERAGE WEEKLY EARNINGS--$360 to $478
AVERAGE WEEKLY HOURS WORKED--never hit 35.0--hit that mark 4 times in 80's
UNEMPLOYMENT--from 7.2% down down down to 3.9%
WELFARE TO WORK—11,533,710 on federal roll in 1996 and 3,880,321 in 2007.
MINIMUM WAGE--$4.25 to $5.15
MINORITIES--did exceedingly well
HOME OWNERSHIP--hit all time high
DEFICIT--290 Billion to whoopee a SURPLUS
DEBT----+28%---300% increase over prior12 years
FEDERAL SPENDING--+28%---80% under Reagan- who da true conservative?
DOW JONES AVERAGE--3,500 to 11,800 all it's history to get to 3500 and Clinton zooms it
NASDAQ--700 to 5,000---all of it's history to get to 700 and Clinton zooms it
VALUES INDEXES-- almost all bad went down--good went up in zoom zoom zoom
FOREIGN AFFAIRS--Peace on Earth good will toward each other---Mark of a true Christian--what has Bush done to Peace on Earth?
POPULARITY---highest poll ratings in history during peacetime in AFRICA, ASIA AND EUROPE even 98.5% in Moscow--left office with highest gallup rating since it was started in 1920's.
STAND UP FOR JUSTICE--evil conservatives spent $110,000,000 on hearings and investigations and caught--- ONE--- very evil man who took a few plane rides to events.
BOW YOUR HEADS--Thank you God for sending us a man of Bill Clinton's character, intelligence, knowledge of governance, ability to face up to crises without whimpering and a great leader of the world.
THANK YOU GOD FOR THE GOOD TIMES THE CLINTON YEARS.
This was accomplished under barrage of attacks
by Newt spending $110,000,000 (GAO NUMBER) on Hearings and Investigations to destroy him.
Wm F Buckley-"Clinton absolutely ate the Republican Cake on Budget"
Clinton policies. Not Congress.
Were Clinton a Conservative they would build a separate Mt. Rushmore of him.
cswinney2@triad.rr.com
Prove me wrong. I will correct.
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» And Slick Willie pushed thru NAFTA and gutted the Glass-Steagall Act
Posted by: Lese Majeste
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Posted by: sayward2 on Dec 16, 2009 10:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: dan10opa on Dec 16, 2009 1:28 PM
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Posted by: Marauder on Dec 16, 2009 1:34 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: My 10 yr. old daughter knew better
Posted by: dmmaze6
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Posted by: richholland on Dec 17, 2009 10:19 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Up untill now millions of americans still believe everything except the pure capitalisme is evil and communistic.
State health care sometimes is inefficient, so we have a mixed system in most of the westeuropean countries.
Excessive waiting lists can be controlled, but crazy profits also are limited.
neither Republicans, neither the Democrats are interested in your wel being, so the only logic possibility is a THIRD PARTY.
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Posted by: mxcm428 on Dec 21, 2009 11:30 PM
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Posted by: wetwe on Jan 4, 2010 9:03 AM
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Posted by: mmckinl on Dec 16, 2009 12:12 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would expect a column like this from a sophomore in college ... but 'ol Shifty knows the ropes ...
This is just more pabulum from the Prince of Pabulum ...
GEE Paul maybe it has something to do with political contributions, lobbyists, post political employment in certain industries for self, relatives or friends ...
Maybe Paul, it is time to get angry, to send a message to Capitol Hill ...
Read Paul's New Book: The Audacity of Pabulum ...
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» Go back and re-read it:
Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Go back and re-read it: Read it ... and read this ...
Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: Go back and re-read it: Read it ... and read this ...
Posted by: photon's feather
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Posted by: blip9 on Dec 16, 2009 12:34 AM
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Dec 16, 2009 12:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Enough said.
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Posted by: Lese Majeste on Dec 16, 2009 2:08 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There hasn't been a dime's worth of difference between the Repubs and Dems since the late 1980's and yet you act like there is.
The only major party that is in control is the 'Corporate War Party' that serves Wall Street and Israel and uses the Pentagon to do so.
The vast majority of Dems and Repubs are spineless Wall Street bag men and women that worship at the altar of death and destruction, AKA the 'Judaic Death Cult', or ZIONISM.
They don't give a damn about We the People, since they spend their time kissing up to Israel and handing over trillions of OUR money to Wall Street to cover their bad gambling debts.
A good example is the "Iran Sanctions Act" which passed the US Knesset--formerly known as the US House--yesterday.
The act is basically an act of economic war against another of Israel's 'existential' enemies, Iran, that the Apartheid Entity has declared it wants destroyed.
The vote was 10 against, 3 Not Voting and the rest, a resounding "AYE."
More war on innocents, more American kids killed and the further wrecking of our economy all to benefit Apartheid Israel.
All funded by Wall Street banks who are making a killing off these wars.
All approved by a cowardly, corrupt Congress and spineless WH who exist to serve Israel.
Mr. Krugman, either you've been taking some 'stupid pills' or you're just part of the controlled opposition.
Either way, what a loss of talent.
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» RE: Mr. Krugman, don't believe your lying eyes
Posted by: Belegandir
» I agree excellent
Posted by: CLARENCE SWINNEY
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Perry Logan on Dec 16, 2009 2:41 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and not even see Barack Obama's name. Like most progs, Paul is taking it easy on The Worst Democrat Ever™.
Was it not Obama who immediately hired all the incompetent neocons to be in his cabinet?
Why, yes it was.
Was it not the Bamanator who poured trillions into the crooked banks--no questions asked--something no Democrat in history has ever done?
It was indeed.
It is surreal how progressives have completely forgotten the Clinton Administration's excellent performance on the economy--no doubt because it messes up their paradigm.
One commenter says there isn't a dime's worth of difference between the Republicans and the Democrats--a sentiment one often hears in political circles.
But this completely ignores Clinton, who turned the biggest deficit in U.S. history into the biggest surplus, ushering in the longest period of economic expansion in U.S. history, with plummeting poverty rates and higher income at all levels. Clinton even managed to cut the rate of rise in healthcare costs from 10% to 3%.
Not bad for an evil DLC Democrat. No wonder progressives like to ignore his record.
The Clinton record on the economy suggests three things:
1) Even a moderate Democrat can do wonders for the economy,
2) Obama is not a Democrat, and
3) People who bash the Clintons are full of sh*t.
The Hall of Republican Memes
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» RE: Don't forget Chicago Blue Dog No. 1!
Posted by: pawheel
» And Slick Willie pushed thru NAFTA and gutted the Glass-Steagall Act
Posted by: Lese Majeste
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Purple Girl on Dec 16, 2009 2:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In fact they have allowed 'titans of Industry' to return to their Robber Baron ways, as well.
There were Rules to the Road, because history had taught us through experience, if not just example.
Wealth never trickles down, it gets siphoned off. "A Free market" requires Accessiblity, not deregulation. Designations of 'Taxpayer' and 'consumer' are reliant on the earning ability of their 'Worker' status.
The Regulations and laws passed after the Great Depression were not suggestions. They were put in place to protect the American people and our nation from another near collapse.
The Neo Cons and their 'Third Way' Blue Laps Dogs, intentionally with forethought and malice, drove this country back into a Depression. They shouldn't just be ignored, but prosecuted.
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» RE: conomic Treason...Hello PG
Posted by: Captainmagic
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Posted by: Todd McClintock on Dec 16, 2009 3:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Actually Krugman, we already knew that.
Posted by: Bob Horn
» Oh, listen to clever chops.
Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Actually Krugman, we already knew that.
Posted by: Pericles
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Posted by: timenotonmyside on Dec 16, 2009 6:02 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, Americans who do have at least 2 brains cells rubbing together are truely powerless to do anything, simply because our government is no longer by the people and for the people.
Both democrats and republicans are bought and paid for by corporate America.
It will take more than campaign finance reform, term limits and all those other progressive ideas floating about.
It's time to take to the streets and fight our corrupt government.
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Dec 16, 2009 7:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is only going to be thru the collective anger and effort of the electorate that will accomplish anything! FDR once told a progressive that he had good ideas, "now make me do it" - the people have forgotten, power concedes nothing without a demand! And it with the collective anger that Americans need to stand together and start demanding!
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» RE: What really needs to happen.......... Register Green!
Posted by: mmckinl
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Posted by: ClassAct on Dec 16, 2009 7:14 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nevertheless the Democrats should take a look at their own history of the 20th century and note that the only Democratic administrations that were succeeded by Democratic administrations were those in which the chief executive was widely considered to be, or at least had the reputation of, being a leftist. Failure to move left will always restore Republicans to the White House because the Democrats failure will alienate their only swing constituency. If leftists will not go to the polls because Democrats have used them as hostages again, Republicans will win every time.
And the moral is: Do the right thing or die.
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» RE: "And the moral is: Do the right thing or die. "
Posted by: oregoncharles
» NOT CARTER
Posted by: CLARENCE SWINNEY
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Posted by: oregoncharles on Dec 16, 2009 8:11 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Answer: dream on.
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Posted by: SteveO on Dec 16, 2009 8:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: JSquercia on Dec 16, 2009 9:09 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are incensed at the Bailout of Wall Street and the return of the arrogance of the Wall Street Crowd who shamelessly award themselves HUGE Bonuses while the average American is hanging on by a thread. They have to be convinced by people like Elizabeth Warren that if we don't hang together we most assuredly will hang Separately .
Let them see that too big to fail is by definition too big to exist . These huge companies MUST be broken up for the sake of the country . We must restore the regulations that confined Commercial Banking from Investment Banking from Insurance . We must look at the whole idea of derivatives and their ilk are nothing more than gambling and hose so engaged FORFEIT any access to Government guarantees .
We must Investigate like the Secura Commission did and we must hold responsible those who helped perpetuate this fraud . This should start with the Mortgage Companies who created these bad mortgages and collected millions in fees before sending them off to be sliced and diced by Wall Street . A good place to start would be the Rating agencies who gave AAA ratings to what was essential CRAP .
I think it is time to purge those who were so disastrously WRONG ( people like Summers ,Rubin , Bernanke and Geithner ) and listen to the people who got it RIGHT ( people like Warren , Black and Born)
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Posted by: weslen1 on Dec 16, 2009 9:11 AM
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AND, as long as those "POOR" aren't going to be in the PICTURE any longer there's NO NEED to REGULATE the WONDERFUL financial "market" and cost those misunderstood, kind, loving, wonderful, generous financial geniuses ONE SINGLE PENNY of their HARD EARNED blood money!
WHO CARES about all those MIDDLE INCOME rubes who, through no ones fault but their OWN made bad investments and LOST all their retirement funds and 401k funds and life savings? THEY SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER! THEY should have KNOWN all those "POOR" people would default once their balloon payments came due.
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» + RE:pub poor who support all this against their own interest-tricked by Limbaugh, Beck, & Bill O'
Posted by: blurider
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Posted by: CLARENCE SWINNEY on Dec 16, 2009 9:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who will tell the people?
EMPIRE DESTRUCTION
1980 to 2007
20 YEARS OF 3 CONSERVATIVE PRESIDENTS
18 years Conservative Senate
12 years Conservative House
6 years Total Conservative Control
Redistribution of Wealth to top 20%.
Folk! It is downhill slide for Middle Class.
FACTS---numbers rounded-
1946--1% owned 30% of Total Wealth
1980—20%--a 33% decline due to Estate Tax and High Top Income Tax Rate.
thence cometh conservatism
1989-36%
80% Increase in 8 years of Reaganism
1993-47%
2007--20% owned 93% of Total non home Financial Wealth
80% owned equity in homes.
Most major corporations are owned by WALL STREET RICH MEN CASINO
In 1945, corporations paid 35.4% of federal revenues and 7.4% in 2003
In 2000, 45% of corporations with revenue over 50 million paid no federal tax
Five Wall Street Banks own 75% of all Bank Deposits in America. 5.
Two own 20%.
Think that is not POWER???
FACT CHECK
In 8 years of Bush with 6 years of Total Control
They (wall street rich) created a Net New Jobs of 3000 per month.
Why? That is NET. You take the new jobs created and subtract the ones sent to China, etc
3000! Wow!
Bush took over after Clinton had created 237,000 Net New Jobs per month.
Clinton left Bush a spending of 1830 B Per Year.
Bush doubled it to 3600 B.
Bush inherited a 5700B Debt from Clinton. He took it to 11,500B
20 years of 3 conservative presidents did this horrible thing.
Took the Debt of less than 1000B after 200 years and added on 8000B.
In 2009 they are spinning big time to blame Obama for huge debt.
Conservatives will spend millions to coverup their Big Recession.
Much of that 8000B Debt add-on went to WALL STREET GAMBLERS.
The people do not know what has happened to them.
Forbes list of 400 Richest reveals how many became Billionaires via corporate
takeovers and Hedge Gambling
Right Wingers yell Rich Pay most of taxes.
Income Taxes!Yes! They have most of the money.
Yet! Conservatives transferred much of taxation from Rich to Middle Class. Reagan voiding REVENUE SHARING a disaster for Middle Class where taxes were transferred from Rich Income taxes to Middle Class in State and Local Taxes. Was it by design?
Was it a Designed Act of taxation transfer by Conservatives.
In 2008 the Middle Class paid 30% of nominal Income in Federal-State-Local Taxes.
Top 10% paid 30% also. Progressive tax system?
Social Security Tax Increase in 1983 was it designed to hit the Middle Class and ease on the rich?
Greenspan + Reagan. 6.2% Tax on Middle Class. One earns $50,000 pays 6.2%. Earns $1,000,00 pays 6.4%. Earns $10,000,000 pays 1/10th of 1%. By design to keep rich rich?
Was Destruction of S&Ls a deliberate act of wealth transfer from 400 local investors to individual Rich on Wall Street?
Key actor Michael Milken became a Multiple Billionaire with income of 550 Million in one year from raiding S&L deposits (plus) for his Rich Corporate Raiders on Wall Street.
Raiders like Perelman and Ichan became multiple Billionaires.
Sweat of Brow? Ho Ho.
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» RE: conservative destroy II of II
Posted by: CLARENCE SWINNEY
» RE: conservative destroy II of II
Posted by: JSquercia
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Posted by: CLARENCE SWINNEY on Dec 16, 2009 9:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Affordable Homes
Affordable Education
Do not Repeat This Past
1980-1% owned 20% of Total Wealth
1989-1% owned 36% of Total Wealth
Reagan policies -deliberate redistribution with 80% more to top 1%.
Bush policies finished the attack on the Middle Class
2007-20% owned 93% of Total Wealth
2007--80% owned equity in homes for 7% of total
2008--Rich of Rich paid 30% of Total Income in Federal-State-Local Taxes.
2008--Middle Class paid same 30%
America is on a Decline slope folks. No doubt.
Elect Conservatives to hasten that decline to bottom where 5% own 95% of our Wealth.
HaitiAmerica.
cswinney2@triad.rr.com
Disagree then prove me wrong -- facts and numbers-- not name calling
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Posted by: CLARENCE SWINNEY on Dec 16, 2009 10:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GDP--rose from 6300 to 11,600
NATIONAL INCOME-5,000 to 8,000 Billion--took 20 years to grow 2500B before Clinton
JOBS CREATED--over 22 million--record by far
AVERAGE WEEKLY EARNINGS--$360 to $478
AVERAGE WEEKLY HOURS WORKED--never hit 35.0--hit that mark 4 times in 80's
UNEMPLOYMENT--from 7.2% down down down to 3.9%
WELFARE TO WORK—11,533,710 on federal roll in 1996 and 3,880,321 in 2007.
MINIMUM WAGE--$4.25 to $5.15
MINORITIES--did exceedingly well
HOME OWNERSHIP--hit all time high
DEFICIT--290 Billion to whoopee a SURPLUS
DEBT----+28%---300% increase over prior12 years
FEDERAL SPENDING--+28%---80% under Reagan- who da true conservative?
DOW JONES AVERAGE--3,500 to 11,800 all it's history to get to 3500 and Clinton zooms it
NASDAQ--700 to 5,000---all of it's history to get to 700 and Clinton zooms it
VALUES INDEXES-- almost all bad went down--good went up in zoom zoom zoom
FOREIGN AFFAIRS--Peace on Earth good will toward each other---Mark of a true Christian--what has Bush done to Peace on Earth?
POPULARITY---highest poll ratings in history during peacetime in AFRICA, ASIA AND EUROPE even 98.5% in Moscow--left office with highest gallup rating since it was started in 1920's.
STAND UP FOR JUSTICE--evil conservatives spent $110,000,000 on hearings and investigations and caught--- ONE--- very evil man who took a few plane rides to events.
BOW YOUR HEADS--Thank you God for sending us a man of Bill Clinton's character, intelligence, knowledge of governance, ability to face up to crises without whimpering and a great leader of the world.
THANK YOU GOD FOR THE GOOD TIMES THE CLINTON YEARS.
This was accomplished under barrage of attacks
by Newt spending $110,000,000 (GAO NUMBER) on Hearings and Investigations to destroy him.
Wm F Buckley-"Clinton absolutely ate the Republican Cake on Budget"
Clinton policies. Not Congress.
Were Clinton a Conservative they would build a separate Mt. Rushmore of him.
cswinney2@triad.rr.com
Prove me wrong. I will correct.
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» And Slick Willie pushed thru NAFTA and gutted the Glass-Steagall Act
Posted by: Lese Majeste
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Posted by: sayward2 on Dec 16, 2009 10:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: dan10opa on Dec 16, 2009 1:28 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Marauder on Dec 16, 2009 1:34 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: My 10 yr. old daughter knew better
Posted by: dmmaze6
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Posted by: richholland on Dec 17, 2009 10:19 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Up untill now millions of americans still believe everything except the pure capitalisme is evil and communistic.
State health care sometimes is inefficient, so we have a mixed system in most of the westeuropean countries.
Excessive waiting lists can be controlled, but crazy profits also are limited.
neither Republicans, neither the Democrats are interested in your wel being, so the only logic possibility is a THIRD PARTY.
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Posted by: mxcm428 on Dec 21, 2009 11:30 PM
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Posted by: wetwe on Jan 4, 2010 9:03 AM
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