comments_imageCOMMENTS: 58

Tea Partiers' New Hero: Ex-KGB Agent Who Thinks U.S. Will Collapse Next Year

Igor Panarin warns that the U.S. will splinter into separate states controlled by foreign powers in 2010. Conservative activists think he may be on to something.
November 9, 2009  |  
 
 
 
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For more than a decade Dr. Igor Panarin, a Russian academic, has been predicting that sometime around 2010 the United States will collapse, splintering into separate states, some of them controlled by foreign powers. Outside of Russia, no one's put much stock in his crackpot and stereotype-based theories -- until now, that is. Who are the newest members of the Igor Panarin fan club? Tea partiers who’ve rallied against the Obama administration's policies and blasted the president for pushing a "socialist" agenda. And he's especially big among tea party activists in Texas, who have hosted Panarin and promoted his work.

In Russia, Panarin, who hosts a weekly radio show, is considered a mainstream expert on the United States. Like Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, Panarin used to work for the KGB. He clearly has the support of the Kremlin, for he teaches at* the school that trains Russia's diplomats. And since the election of Barack Obama last November, Panarin has found a new audience in America among far right activists, many of whom believe Obama is destroying the country.

According to Panarin, the US will collapse within the next year because of its economic problems and deep racial and ethnic divisions. He changes the details from year to year, but here's the general gist: the South, "with its Hispanics," Panarin says, will break away from the union and merge or ally with Mexico. The rest of America will split into several other countries, some becoming the protectorates of other major powers. Alaska, naturally, will go to Russia. The Chinese will take over the West Coast. (Why? Panarin points out that most Californians' laptops are made in China and that the West has a "growing Chinese population.") "Five of the poorer central states, with their large Native American populations, and the northern states, where the influence from Canada is strong," will compose two other countries, he explained in Moscow last year. The Northeast, he says, will fall under the sway of "global capital and finance" based in London -- an idea, no doubt, that appeals to those tea partiers who worry about nefarious international forces exerting influence over the US economy.

Since the Drudge Report first highlighted his theories last November, several conservative websites and blogs have featured him. In September, Chuck Baldwin, a perennial far-right presidential candidate on the Constitution Party ticket, observed that Panarin's predictions of "some sort of break up of the United States in the near future" was a "very realistic probability." (Columnist and MSNBC analyst Pat Buchanan linked to Baldwin's article on Panarin.) Joseph Farah, the founder of the arch-conservative website WorldNetDaily, which is famous for promoting "birther" allegations questioning Obama's citizenship,wrote in December that he wasn't "buying into Panarin's entire prediction" but that "there's something to it." More than half of the nearly 3,000 WND readers who responded to a poll attached to Farah's piece agreed that "the US is on course to break up soon, and another 18 percent said they thought the United States wouldn't break up, but would 'continue to lose sovereignty to the UN and other global entities.'"


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Please!
Posted by: Philor on Nov 9, 2009 3:58 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm seriously thinking about stopping to read Alternet. I've been feeling like it for a while, but this one is really pushing it. That is the kind of stuff that is so ridiculous that it should not even reported as information.

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» Why? Posted by: tommy_slothrop

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farmer boy
Posted by: jrgjniew on Nov 9, 2009 4:12 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
what would this guy know about morality? Wasn't the world he worded(s) for aetheistic for generations. Only "closet" Christians, as well as other religious groups existed for generations.

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really?
Posted by: johnthetreehugger on Nov 9, 2009 4:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
anybody, I mean anybody, ex-KGB, teabagger, or otherwise, who thinks the Baptist White South is gonna live in some kinda new national formation with Catholic Brown Mexico is a fuckin' idiot who has never been in the Old South.

I defend this cultural backwater because of its natural beauty and richness, but I am under no illusion about the racism and levels of idiocy here.

but the prospect of teabaggers screamin' Red Menace and then gettin' fed stupid disinfo by a former Red is too fuckin' funny for words.

who's the Communist now you fuckin' dupes?!

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» Mexicans in Arkansas Posted by: advancedatheist

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Interesting...
Posted by: Axiom69 on Nov 9, 2009 4:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I will have to agree with "johnthetreehugger" that the south joining with Mexico seems a bit of a stretch. OK, a huge stretch.
Other than conservatives going to his speeches that what makes this a "right wing" thing? Economic collapse, racial divisions, political divisions, Texas seceding, look at what he's suggesting then look at the news. Doesn't seem so far fetched.

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rwshea
Posted by: rwshea on Nov 9, 2009 5:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Although I find the possibility of break-up to be fairly remote at the moment, I would like to point out that Florida is not really part of the "Old South," as many already know, of course. There are so many north-easterners and people from the rest of the americas in central and south (even up in Jacksonville, now) Florida now that most of the natives have fled for the panhandle and other points in the South. Plus, Florida's transient population is large. South Florida as far north as Vero Beach would probably have to be written off: they would rather be an added borough of NYC anyway.

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Ex-KGB My Ass!!!
Posted by: lively56 on Nov 9, 2009 6:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once a KGB, always a KGB. So the same idiots that are always spouting how the liberals are commies, are now eating up a commie's words? Whew, that just about says it all. lol

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» RE: x-KGB My Ass!!! Posted by: VZEQICVA

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Wishfull thinking
Posted by: Boduognat on Nov 9, 2009 6:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess it's some wishfull thinking on both sides.Of course,the russians will never forgive the US for winning the cold war.It's no secret they want Alaska with its huge resources.(I am not refering to sarah)The Glenn Beck crowd/seperatists want nothing else but to break away.They want to go back to the old days of White America.When a white person was still in charge of the country.

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Don't you guys read the news?
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Nov 9, 2009 7:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The governor of the state of Texas (too small to be a country, too big to be an insane asylum!) openly discussed succession from the USA. Opinion polls should be broken up with the South separated from the North given the wide cultural differences between the two regions. The spread between support for Obama is what, a 50 point difference between New England and the old South? That's astronomical.

Are you folks too ideological to follow the gold market? Gold is the cop on the beat that blows the whistle when financial flim flam gets out of hand. It's now out of hand. A collapse of the financial system could easily lead to the break-uo of the country. It may or may not, but a serious look is called for by events.

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» Cause and effect Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Cause and effect Posted by: MT512
» RE: Cause and effect Posted by: Boduognat
» RE: What Would Jesus Do? Posted by: Deadbeat Dad
» RE: What Would Jesus Do? Posted by: Boduognat
» Some facts for yellow Posted by: ReallyBearish
» To small... Posted by: Bbear41

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They did'nt make it!
Posted by: frankly1 on Nov 9, 2009 8:07 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hear all the tea baggers got together to form a half-wit - they failed!

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» A dim wit, instead Posted by: laoma

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hounddog
Posted by: hounddog on Nov 9, 2009 8:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article ran years ago on GlobalResearch.ca. The reality is is that the United States has already been broken up and taken over. It's called the transnational corporation. What is the difference between being controlled by a fascist government or a corporation. Either way controll is in the hands of an elite few. Big pharma, finance, oil, agribusiness, Wall Street etc. run our government. The majority of the public are against the bank bailout, congress bails out the banks. No strings attached. The majority of the public wants single payer health insurance, the insurance industry takes it off the table. We want our forces out of Iraq and Affganistan troop increases are implemented. Wake up dumb asses. Your country has already been stolen from you.

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» RE: hounddog Posted by: djnoll
» RE: hounddog Posted by: madregal
» nail... Posted by: zigy

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Free US from Israel
Posted by: weathered on Nov 9, 2009 8:50 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
its made America very sick.

Still stuck in the depths of media deceit, just look around.

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CUCKOO
Posted by: pawheel on Nov 9, 2009 9:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Looks like more than ONE flew over the cuckoos nest!

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The hate of least resistance
Posted by: MT512 on Nov 9, 2009 9:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is so telling. The far-right teabagger types just have no reasoned, examined ideology. It's always flexing to the times, and is basically the hate of least resistance.

This Russian has predicted this stuff for a decade? Then just go back in time a couple of years when the now-teabaggers were drooling with delight over GWBush. They'd reject the prediction completely, dismissing him as a brainwashed commie. Domestic critics of their beloved leaders are "traitors" and foreign critics are "irrelevant" and "hate our freedoms." Turn the tables now with a hated enemy, a black man (oh, and a Democrat) and suddenly any criticism from anywhere isn't just relevant, but evidence.

I think they are sheep led around by their unexamined emotions. Fox "News" and the GOP play up the emotion and dumb down the thought, and voila! Obama is a socialist (which is ridiculous enough)... and a fascist! Their leaders know those people don't have dictionaries and wouldn't bother to use them anyway except as kindling or outhouse paper. All that matters is that they hate Obama. Ruled by their emotions, they lack the cognitive ability or practice to parse their own espoused views.

They demand that any health care reform be "in the black" and paid for upfront, yet didn't fire a single synapse about "fiscal responsibility" (purportedly a central conservative concern) when supporting the invasion of Iraq... quite simply because they weren't coached to do so. It's amazing. They can't even see themselves or the strings from which they dangle.

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One more small nation
Posted by: COhippie on Nov 9, 2009 10:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He left this out. We residents of Boulder County, Colorado are going to make our own little nation. It will be called either by its old title of the People's Republic of Boulder, or by its new and preferred title, Marijuanistan.

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Sophomoric and puerile fantasy
Posted by: dayahka on Nov 9, 2009 10:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Panarin's quote-unquote analysis and prediction is pretty clearly a fantasy produced by a juvenile mind--or one besotted with Vodka.

He is, however, not the lone Russian who has attracted the aspirations of the lunatic Right; the equally looney Birther Queen, Orly Taitz, also hails from Russia. Now, this is an interesting phenomenon. Why are those on the right clinging desperately onto Russian-made fantasies? Is this an acknowledgment that the Right has no valid homegrown ideas-and somehow yearn for the good, old days of the Cold War?

It is also interesting to speculate about Panarin's predictions in light of America's military superiority. Are the thousands of nuclear warheads going to be divided equally among these six "new" states following a breakup? This proliferation of nuclear-armed states would surely cause alarm around the world. Or, would the US military simply dissolve into a bunch of mercenaries selling their nuclear poisons to the highest bidder--and who would that be, I wonder?

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The United States of
Posted by: willymack on Nov 9, 2009 10:15 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nitwits, numbskulls, knuckleheads, and nincompoops.
Has a nice ring to it, no?
Anybody who doesn't think we need a crash program to properly educate our kids hasn't been paying attention.

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California should leave
Posted by: vertical on Nov 9, 2009 12:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They say that California has the sixth largest econemy in the world, so lets leave the union anb be our own nation. Currently California gets less that %75 of the federal tax dollars it pays, so lets just go and keep that 25%. It would help.

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» RE: California should leave Posted by: DaBear

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Dystopian fiction is an awesome sub-genre of Speculative Fiction
Posted by: DaBear on Nov 9, 2009 1:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But, jeebus-frak! Republikaaners can't even do dystopian fiction very well either. Why can't these simps do anything of quality?

I was all for Igor's headtrip until he started making really plot plots and throughlines like AK to Russia and shit.

At least make it plausible or throw in some fabulist element that let's us know your workingin a different discipline.

Oh wait, the RWAs were taking Igor as a factual nonfiction writer?

Oh fuck. they're all too god damned stoopid to be grownups. My ten year old has more sense than they do.

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Igor Panarin is an information warfare expert.
Posted by: GuitarBill on Nov 9, 2009 1:19 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's his website: Panarin.com.

His idea's are widely criticized

"...MANILA, Philippines—This autumn will see the start of the United States’ 'disintegration,' according to the dean of Russia’s diplomatic academy.

"Speaking Tuesday through an interpreter at the University of the Philippines in Diliman, Quezon City, Igor Panarin said that with the financial crisis worsening in the United States, the world’s lone superpower could start breaking up into six different territories by the yearend.

"While conceding that a seemingly invincible superpower could collapse, as shown by the USSR, David particularly questioned Panarin’s claims about the strength of the US dollar.

"'The American dollar is unlike the Soviet ruble. The Soviet ruble was never a global currency. The American dollar, whether we like it or not, has become a global currency...' David said.

"'China and Japan’s foreign reserves are all in dollars. So ironically, countries like them can’t do anything but give support to the country that is the root of the financial crisis,' he said.

"David also questioned Panarin’s claim that the six purported 'republics' would fall under the influence of or be gobbled up by other countries.

"While I could imagine California declaring independence, why would they allow themselves to be absorbed by China? Why would Californians think that their crisis would be solved by China?' David said.

"'These other countries also have their own national crises. Japan did not escape the financial crisis, and I think no one can say that the economic situation in Mexico is better than in the US,' David said.

"'And it would be harder to imagine that the US eastern seaboard would be saved by the United Kingdom, when the banks in England are even worse off than those in America,' he said."


Source: Russian sees end of American Dream.


Panarin's argument is bull[expletive deleted], and pure fear mongering, wrapped inside an underhanded Russian psy-op.

His claim's have all the wait of an Alex Jones article. ZILCH! ZIP! NADA!

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» Sorry. Posted by: GuitarBill

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Crossing The Rio Grande
Posted by: melpol on Nov 9, 2009 3:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The walls preventing Mexicans from entering the U.S. are slowly being torn down. Millions who yearn for a taste of freedom are crossing the Rio Grande. Liberty and wealth is possible for every Peon. We are all Americans--North or South. Welcome!! Latino brothers to the land of the brave and free.

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» RE: Crossing The Rio Grande Posted by: richholland

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Oh, it's gonna happen
Posted by: Raytan on Nov 9, 2009 8:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not for racial or political reasons or any nonsense like that, but because of economic reasons. The dividing lines may certainly racial or political, but the reason for why the actual breakup happens will be economic.

The simple fact of the matter is the US Federal Government is going bankrupt. If you look up ANY statistics on the matter it's undeniable. The only people still in denial about this either haven't looked at any statistics or are in government and can't bear the thought.

As the Federal Government goes bankrupt all those debts are gonna get called in, and NO state is going to want to get left holding the bag paying for it. Pay 90% income tax, or secede... hmm... difficult choice. Actually it's pretty easy considering how little the Federal Government really does for us on a daily basis. About the only thing people would miss is their national pride (easily tossed aside) and their entitlement payments (this would be a little more painful to give up, but when you have a choice between $200 a month in free money and $500 a month in taxes vs. no free money and no taxes it's a pretty obvious choice).

In addition to all of this the Federal Government is running out of reasons to exist in the first place. Aside from invading Iran and maybe a few African countries, there's really no where else to invade. And there's precious little reason to have such a massive military if you're not using it to invade other countries. As the rest of the world matures it's going to gradually throw off the yolk of American imperialism, and all these military bases around the world will be closed down. Furthermore the need for "foreign aid" from the US will also drop as the rest of the world builds itself up economically, and thus our political influence will diminish commensurately.

Considering the only other 2 significant impacts the Federal Government has on the world are social security and medicare (and even if you don't presume those to be going bankrupt they can both be handled locally by states), there's just not much reason to keep this bloated bureaucracy around in D.C. anymore. The Feds don't even want to bail-out states like California when it goes through bad times, so California has had to learn to live on its own without Federal help. What reasons is there really for Californians to continue to be burdened by a rapidly depreciating currency and huge Federal taxes when they receive little in return? That's going to be the question on everyone's minds in the near future.

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» RE: Oh, it's gonna happen Posted by: paganpat

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As P.T. Barnum said...
Posted by: ellspouses on Nov 9, 2009 9:30 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's one born every minute. While I find it amusing that anyone would take seriously the thinking of a former (or current:who knows?) KGB official regarding the future of this country, what really honks me off is this statement:
"Bob Hoy, a tea party organizer from Northern Virginia... Hoy warned that America, "founded by Europeans," was under siege. "No one wants to live in an integrated neighborhood," he added, arguing that white people flee "black" areas as soon as they can."

Mr. Hoy has a rectal/cranial inversion. There are millions of white Americans, me and my wife among them, who live in mixed neighborhoods. Deliberately. By choice. And guess what? We have great neighbors, who take care of their property, and are working hard to make sure their kids get an education, and have an opportunity to become the next generation to experience the American Dream.
If this country falls apart it won't be due to external forces, but due to the hate and division within our own borders. I really think there are people on the far right who are hoping and praying that an event will occur which will justify an excuse for violence, supported by the 2nd Amendment.
I think people are waiting in the wings to go to war internally, to "cleanse" this nation of those who don't adhere to their 18th century idea of what this country should be like: white, male leadership.
THAT may be the path of destruction leading this country to break up, at some point. While I hesitate to use words like "wingnut" and "tin foil hat", because they continue to drive a wedge in what might be intelligent discourse, I do think that we have a minority of people capable of causing violence, at some point, to achieve their goals. Perhaps they point to some talking head from Russia; perhaps they praise a murderer of a doctor. Ultimately it's all the same: "someone said this was going to happen." And it did. Hate and ignorance win if intelligent people don't stand up and fight against it.

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If you want to see...
Posted by: jimmyaj on Nov 9, 2009 9:55 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...how America is going to collapse, read something by James Howard Kunstler like "The Long Emergency" or one of his other books.

And it's not just the US going down that road of energy depletion, it's the whole world.

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Go ahead, make my day.
Posted by: whogrant on Nov 9, 2009 10:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm pretty sure most of the US would be more than happy for Texas to succeed. It will be amusing to see how they fair after they have gotten rid of their only source of cheap labor and the natives have to go out to work in the boiling Texas heat. What a theory - go ahead, make my day.

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I donot understand it;
Posted by: richholland on Nov 9, 2009 11:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
american workers despise the benefits of socialisme, but the wallstreet bankers love it.

american workers donot like russian propaganda, but the teabag righties love it.

shouldnt we think over the daily propaganda from the media???

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Neo-Stalinist Revanchism
Posted by: lessbread on Nov 10, 2009 4:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wannabe despots of the world, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains to reality!

This is rich with absurdity.

Houston Tea Party Patriots present a rump KGB narrative, a betrayal story turned inside out. Obama will do for the USA what Gorbachev did for the USSR. Manifest Destiny is at stake!

Houston Tea Party Patriots pray that God will give them "the power to thwart" their enemies as they "reclaim the freedoms and liberties" won by the fathers (presumably lost by the mothers) and "restore the principles on which our Constitution was founded" [1]. Principles taken from Cotton Mather and John Winthrop perhaps, maybe even some interpretations from John C. Calhoun. The South will rise again with help from the KGB. Snickers! The impulse to retain their sense of privilege drives these people to fold revenge narratives they would otherwise find offensive into their revanchist political fantasies. What shall we make of this international confluence of fringe groups with authoritarian personality traits? Besides making fun that is...

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Libertarian
Posted by: saadasim on Nov 10, 2009 10:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The teabaggers were crying about Obama's Birth Certificate and how he was going to spread Communism. Obama's birth is solved and now they invite a former Communist to opine on America's prospect.

If it wasn't so serious, they could put on a new Fox comedy show.

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parrotuya
Posted by: parrotuya on Nov 11, 2009 4:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Igor Panarin kind of rhymes with ignoramus! Tea-baggers and former communists together? Strange bedfellows, indeed!

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swkidder
Posted by: swkidder on Nov 12, 2009 8:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I swear - you just can't make this stuff up. But thank you for my daily dose of comedy - I think?

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Alternet Comments:

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Please!
Posted by: Philor on Nov 9, 2009 3:58 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm seriously thinking about stopping to read Alternet. I've been feeling like it for a while, but this one is really pushing it. That is the kind of stuff that is so ridiculous that it should not even reported as information.

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» Why? Posted by: tommy_slothrop

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farmer boy
Posted by: jrgjniew on Nov 9, 2009 4:12 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
what would this guy know about morality? Wasn't the world he worded(s) for aetheistic for generations. Only "closet" Christians, as well as other religious groups existed for generations.

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really?
Posted by: johnthetreehugger on Nov 9, 2009 4:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
anybody, I mean anybody, ex-KGB, teabagger, or otherwise, who thinks the Baptist White South is gonna live in some kinda new national formation with Catholic Brown Mexico is a fuckin' idiot who has never been in the Old South.

I defend this cultural backwater because of its natural beauty and richness, but I am under no illusion about the racism and levels of idiocy here.

but the prospect of teabaggers screamin' Red Menace and then gettin' fed stupid disinfo by a former Red is too fuckin' funny for words.

who's the Communist now you fuckin' dupes?!

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» Mexicans in Arkansas Posted by: advancedatheist

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Interesting...
Posted by: Axiom69 on Nov 9, 2009 4:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I will have to agree with "johnthetreehugger" that the south joining with Mexico seems a bit of a stretch. OK, a huge stretch.
Other than conservatives going to his speeches that what makes this a "right wing" thing? Economic collapse, racial divisions, political divisions, Texas seceding, look at what he's suggesting then look at the news. Doesn't seem so far fetched.

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rwshea
Posted by: rwshea on Nov 9, 2009 5:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Although I find the possibility of break-up to be fairly remote at the moment, I would like to point out that Florida is not really part of the "Old South," as many already know, of course. There are so many north-easterners and people from the rest of the americas in central and south (even up in Jacksonville, now) Florida now that most of the natives have fled for the panhandle and other points in the South. Plus, Florida's transient population is large. South Florida as far north as Vero Beach would probably have to be written off: they would rather be an added borough of NYC anyway.

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Ex-KGB My Ass!!!
Posted by: lively56 on Nov 9, 2009 6:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once a KGB, always a KGB. So the same idiots that are always spouting how the liberals are commies, are now eating up a commie's words? Whew, that just about says it all. lol

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» RE: x-KGB My Ass!!! Posted by: VZEQICVA

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Wishfull thinking
Posted by: Boduognat on Nov 9, 2009 6:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess it's some wishfull thinking on both sides.Of course,the russians will never forgive the US for winning the cold war.It's no secret they want Alaska with its huge resources.(I am not refering to sarah)The Glenn Beck crowd/seperatists want nothing else but to break away.They want to go back to the old days of White America.When a white person was still in charge of the country.

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Don't you guys read the news?
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Nov 9, 2009 7:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The governor of the state of Texas (too small to be a country, too big to be an insane asylum!) openly discussed succession from the USA. Opinion polls should be broken up with the South separated from the North given the wide cultural differences between the two regions. The spread between support for Obama is what, a 50 point difference between New England and the old South? That's astronomical.

Are you folks too ideological to follow the gold market? Gold is the cop on the beat that blows the whistle when financial flim flam gets out of hand. It's now out of hand. A collapse of the financial system could easily lead to the break-uo of the country. It may or may not, but a serious look is called for by events.

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» Cause and effect Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Cause and effect Posted by: MT512
» RE: Cause and effect Posted by: Boduognat
» RE: What Would Jesus Do? Posted by: Deadbeat Dad
» RE: What Would Jesus Do? Posted by: Boduognat
» Some facts for yellow Posted by: ReallyBearish
» To small... Posted by: Bbear41

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They did'nt make it!
Posted by: frankly1 on Nov 9, 2009 8:07 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hear all the tea baggers got together to form a half-wit - they failed!

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» A dim wit, instead Posted by: laoma

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hounddog
Posted by: hounddog on Nov 9, 2009 8:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article ran years ago on GlobalResearch.ca. The reality is is that the United States has already been broken up and taken over. It's called the transnational corporation. What is the difference between being controlled by a fascist government or a corporation. Either way controll is in the hands of an elite few. Big pharma, finance, oil, agribusiness, Wall Street etc. run our government. The majority of the public are against the bank bailout, congress bails out the banks. No strings attached. The majority of the public wants single payer health insurance, the insurance industry takes it off the table. We want our forces out of Iraq and Affganistan troop increases are implemented. Wake up dumb asses. Your country has already been stolen from you.

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» RE: hounddog Posted by: djnoll
» RE: hounddog Posted by: madregal
» nail... Posted by: zigy

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Free US from Israel
Posted by: weathered on Nov 9, 2009 8:50 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
its made America very sick.

Still stuck in the depths of media deceit, just look around.

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CUCKOO
Posted by: pawheel on Nov 9, 2009 9:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Looks like more than ONE flew over the cuckoos nest!

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The hate of least resistance
Posted by: MT512 on Nov 9, 2009 9:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is so telling. The far-right teabagger types just have no reasoned, examined ideology. It's always flexing to the times, and is basically the hate of least resistance.

This Russian has predicted this stuff for a decade? Then just go back in time a couple of years when the now-teabaggers were drooling with delight over GWBush. They'd reject the prediction completely, dismissing him as a brainwashed commie. Domestic critics of their beloved leaders are "traitors" and foreign critics are "irrelevant" and "hate our freedoms." Turn the tables now with a hated enemy, a black man (oh, and a Democrat) and suddenly any criticism from anywhere isn't just relevant, but evidence.

I think they are sheep led around by their unexamined emotions. Fox "News" and the GOP play up the emotion and dumb down the thought, and voila! Obama is a socialist (which is ridiculous enough)... and a fascist! Their leaders know those people don't have dictionaries and wouldn't bother to use them anyway except as kindling or outhouse paper. All that matters is that they hate Obama. Ruled by their emotions, they lack the cognitive ability or practice to parse their own espoused views.

They demand that any health care reform be "in the black" and paid for upfront, yet didn't fire a single synapse about "fiscal responsibility" (purportedly a central conservative concern) when supporting the invasion of Iraq... quite simply because they weren't coached to do so. It's amazing. They can't even see themselves or the strings from which they dangle.

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One more small nation
Posted by: COhippie on Nov 9, 2009 10:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He left this out. We residents of Boulder County, Colorado are going to make our own little nation. It will be called either by its old title of the People's Republic of Boulder, or by its new and preferred title, Marijuanistan.

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Sophomoric and puerile fantasy
Posted by: dayahka on Nov 9, 2009 10:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Panarin's quote-unquote analysis and prediction is pretty clearly a fantasy produced by a juvenile mind--or one besotted with Vodka.

He is, however, not the lone Russian who has attracted the aspirations of the lunatic Right; the equally looney Birther Queen, Orly Taitz, also hails from Russia. Now, this is an interesting phenomenon. Why are those on the right clinging desperately onto Russian-made fantasies? Is this an acknowledgment that the Right has no valid homegrown ideas-and somehow yearn for the good, old days of the Cold War?

It is also interesting to speculate about Panarin's predictions in light of America's military superiority. Are the thousands of nuclear warheads going to be divided equally among these six "new" states following a breakup? This proliferation of nuclear-armed states would surely cause alarm around the world. Or, would the US military simply dissolve into a bunch of mercenaries selling their nuclear poisons to the highest bidder--and who would that be, I wonder?

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The United States of
Posted by: willymack on Nov 9, 2009 10:15 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nitwits, numbskulls, knuckleheads, and nincompoops.
Has a nice ring to it, no?
Anybody who doesn't think we need a crash program to properly educate our kids hasn't been paying attention.

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California should leave
Posted by: vertical on Nov 9, 2009 12:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They say that California has the sixth largest econemy in the world, so lets leave the union anb be our own nation. Currently California gets less that %75 of the federal tax dollars it pays, so lets just go and keep that 25%. It would help.

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» RE: California should leave Posted by: DaBear

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Dystopian fiction is an awesome sub-genre of Speculative Fiction
Posted by: DaBear on Nov 9, 2009 1:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But, jeebus-frak! Republikaaners can't even do dystopian fiction very well either. Why can't these simps do anything of quality?

I was all for Igor's headtrip until he started making really plot plots and throughlines like AK to Russia and shit.

At least make it plausible or throw in some fabulist element that let's us know your workingin a different discipline.

Oh wait, the RWAs were taking Igor as a factual nonfiction writer?

Oh fuck. they're all too god damned stoopid to be grownups. My ten year old has more sense than they do.

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Igor Panarin is an information warfare expert.
Posted by: GuitarBill on Nov 9, 2009 1:19 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's his website: Panarin.com.

His idea's are widely criticized

"...MANILA, Philippines—This autumn will see the start of the United States’ 'disintegration,' according to the dean of Russia’s diplomatic academy.

"Speaking Tuesday through an interpreter at the University of the Philippines in Diliman, Quezon City, Igor Panarin said that with the financial crisis worsening in the United States, the world’s lone superpower could start breaking up into six different territories by the yearend.

"While conceding that a seemingly invincible superpower could collapse, as shown by the USSR, David particularly questioned Panarin’s claims about the strength of the US dollar.

"'The American dollar is unlike the Soviet ruble. The Soviet ruble was never a global currency. The American dollar, whether we like it or not, has become a global currency...' David said.

"'China and Japan’s foreign reserves are all in dollars. So ironically, countries like them can’t do anything but give support to the country that is the root of the financial crisis,' he said.

"David also questioned Panarin’s claim that the six purported 'republics' would fall under the influence of or be gobbled up by other countries.

"While I could imagine California declaring independence, why would they allow themselves to be absorbed by China? Why would Californians think that their crisis would be solved by China?' David said.

"'These other countries also have their own national crises. Japan did not escape the financial crisis, and I think no one can say that the economic situation in Mexico is better than in the US,' David said.

"'And it would be harder to imagine that the US eastern seaboard would be saved by the United Kingdom, when the banks in England are even worse off than those in America,' he said."


Source: Russian sees end of American Dream.


Panarin's argument is bull[expletive deleted], and pure fear mongering, wrapped inside an underhanded Russian psy-op.

His claim's have all the wait of an Alex Jones article. ZILCH! ZIP! NADA!

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» Sorry. Posted by: GuitarBill

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Crossing The Rio Grande
Posted by: melpol on Nov 9, 2009 3:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The walls preventing Mexicans from entering the U.S. are slowly being torn down. Millions who yearn for a taste of freedom are crossing the Rio Grande. Liberty and wealth is possible for every Peon. We are all Americans--North or South. Welcome!! Latino brothers to the land of the brave and free.

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» RE: Crossing The Rio Grande Posted by: richholland

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Oh, it's gonna happen
Posted by: Raytan on Nov 9, 2009 8:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not for racial or political reasons or any nonsense like that, but because of economic reasons. The dividing lines may certainly racial or political, but the reason for why the actual breakup happens will be economic.

The simple fact of the matter is the US Federal Government is going bankrupt. If you look up ANY statistics on the matter it's undeniable. The only people still in denial about this either haven't looked at any statistics or are in government and can't bear the thought.

As the Federal Government goes bankrupt all those debts are gonna get called in, and NO state is going to want to get left holding the bag paying for it. Pay 90% income tax, or secede... hmm... difficult choice. Actually it's pretty easy considering how little the Federal Government really does for us on a daily basis. About the only thing people would miss is their national pride (easily tossed aside) and their entitlement payments (this would be a little more painful to give up, but when you have a choice between $200 a month in free money and $500 a month in taxes vs. no free money and no taxes it's a pretty obvious choice).

In addition to all of this the Federal Government is running out of reasons to exist in the first place. Aside from invading Iran and maybe a few African countries, there's really no where else to invade. And there's precious little reason to have such a massive military if you're not using it to invade other countries. As the rest of the world matures it's going to gradually throw off the yolk of American imperialism, and all these military bases around the world will be closed down. Furthermore the need for "foreign aid" from the US will also drop as the rest of the world builds itself up economically, and thus our political influence will diminish commensurately.

Considering the only other 2 significant impacts the Federal Government has on the world are social security and medicare (and even if you don't presume those to be going bankrupt they can both be handled locally by states), there's just not much reason to keep this bloated bureaucracy around in D.C. anymore. The Feds don't even want to bail-out states like California when it goes through bad times, so California has had to learn to live on its own without Federal help. What reasons is there really for Californians to continue to be burdened by a rapidly depreciating currency and huge Federal taxes when they receive little in return? That's going to be the question on everyone's minds in the near future.

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» RE: Oh, it's gonna happen Posted by: paganpat

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As P.T. Barnum said...
Posted by: ellspouses on Nov 9, 2009 9:30 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's one born every minute. While I find it amusing that anyone would take seriously the thinking of a former (or current:who knows?) KGB official regarding the future of this country, what really honks me off is this statement:
"Bob Hoy, a tea party organizer from Northern Virginia... Hoy warned that America, "founded by Europeans," was under siege. "No one wants to live in an integrated neighborhood," he added, arguing that white people flee "black" areas as soon as they can."

Mr. Hoy has a rectal/cranial inversion. There are millions of white Americans, me and my wife among them, who live in mixed neighborhoods. Deliberately. By choice. And guess what? We have great neighbors, who take care of their property, and are working hard to make sure their kids get an education, and have an opportunity to become the next generation to experience the American Dream.
If this country falls apart it won't be due to external forces, but due to the hate and division within our own borders. I really think there are people on the far right who are hoping and praying that an event will occur which will justify an excuse for violence, supported by the 2nd Amendment.
I think people are waiting in the wings to go to war internally, to "cleanse" this nation of those who don't adhere to their 18th century idea of what this country should be like: white, male leadership.
THAT may be the path of destruction leading this country to break up, at some point. While I hesitate to use words like "wingnut" and "tin foil hat", because they continue to drive a wedge in what might be intelligent discourse, I do think that we have a minority of people capable of causing violence, at some point, to achieve their goals. Perhaps they point to some talking head from Russia; perhaps they praise a murderer of a doctor. Ultimately it's all the same: "someone said this was going to happen." And it did. Hate and ignorance win if intelligent people don't stand up and fight against it.

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If you want to see...
Posted by: jimmyaj on Nov 9, 2009 9:55 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...how America is going to collapse, read something by James Howard Kunstler like "The Long Emergency" or one of his other books.

And it's not just the US going down that road of energy depletion, it's the whole world.

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Go ahead, make my day.
Posted by: whogrant on Nov 9, 2009 10:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm pretty sure most of the US would be more than happy for Texas to succeed. It will be amusing to see how they fair after they have gotten rid of their only source of cheap labor and the natives have to go out to work in the boiling Texas heat. What a theory - go ahead, make my day.

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I donot understand it;
Posted by: richholland on Nov 9, 2009 11:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
american workers despise the benefits of socialisme, but the wallstreet bankers love it.

american workers donot like russian propaganda, but the teabag righties love it.

shouldnt we think over the daily propaganda from the media???

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Neo-Stalinist Revanchism
Posted by: lessbread on Nov 10, 2009 4:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wannabe despots of the world, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains to reality!

This is rich with absurdity.

Houston Tea Party Patriots present a rump KGB narrative, a betrayal story turned inside out. Obama will do for the USA what Gorbachev did for the USSR. Manifest Destiny is at stake!

Houston Tea Party Patriots pray that God will give them "the power to thwart" their enemies as they "reclaim the freedoms and liberties" won by the fathers (presumably lost by the mothers) and "restore the principles on which our Constitution was founded" [1]. Principles taken from Cotton Mather and John Winthrop perhaps, maybe even some interpretations from John C. Calhoun. The South will rise again with help from the KGB. Snickers! The impulse to retain their sense of privilege drives these people to fold revenge narratives they would otherwise find offensive into their revanchist political fantasies. What shall we make of this international confluence of fringe groups with authoritarian personality traits? Besides making fun that is...

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Libertarian
Posted by: saadasim on Nov 10, 2009 10:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The teabaggers were crying about Obama's Birth Certificate and how he was going to spread Communism. Obama's birth is solved and now they invite a former Communist to opine on America's prospect.

If it wasn't so serious, they could put on a new Fox comedy show.

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parrotuya
Posted by: parrotuya on Nov 11, 2009 4:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Igor Panarin kind of rhymes with ignoramus! Tea-baggers and former communists together? Strange bedfellows, indeed!

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swkidder
Posted by: swkidder on Nov 12, 2009 8:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I swear - you just can't make this stuff up. But thank you for my daily dose of comedy - I think?

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