COMMENTS: 46
It's Time to Rebuild Our Passenger Railroad System
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The most remarkable thing about this journey was how we managed to avoid anything scenic. The initial run was overnight from New York to Chicago in the November darkness. In Chicago, we had such a long layover -- all day, really -- that I was able to tour the Art Institute, the Field Museum and even take in a movie before we resumed our journey on a different train.
We rolled through Iowa and Nebraska all night, and I woke up somewhere along the bleak prairie outside of Denver. In that city, we parked on a siding near a stockyard all day long for reasons never explained and departed at dusk for the leg through the Rockies.
Things finally got interesting the next morning in Sparks, Nev., when we entered the Sierra, but the Radar Range cuisine had introduced some malign flora into my guts, and I spent most of that final leg in the bathroom.
Since then, train travel in the United States has become a pretty bare-bones affair. Amtrak has become the laughingstock of the world. Most Americans now living have never even been passengers on a train -- for them it's as outmoded as the stagecoach.
The final three-decade blowout of the cheap fossil-fuel fiesta led to the supremacy of the automobile and the fabulous network of highways that provided so much employment and so many real-estate development opportunities. This is all rather unfortunate because we are on the verge of experiencing one of the sharpest discontinuities in human history.
We're heading into a permanent global oil crisis. It is going to change the terms of everyday life very starkly. We will be a far less affluent nation than we were in the 20th century. The automobile is now set to become a diminishing presence in our lives. We will not have the resources to maintain the highways that made Happy Motoring so normal and universal.
The sheer prospect of permanent energy-resource problems has, in my view, been the prime culprit behind the cratering of our financial system for the simple reason that reduced energy "inputs" lead inexorably to the broad loss of capacity to service debt at all levels: personal, corporate, government. It's quite a massive problem, and it's not going away anytime soon, which is why I call it "The Long Emergency."
There are many additional pieces to it, including very troubling prospects for agriculture, for commerce, manufacturing -- really for all the "normal" activities of daily life in an "advanced" civilization.
I think we're going to need trains again desperately. Among the systems in trouble (and headed for more, very soon) is commercial aviation. In my opinion, the airline industry as we know it will cease to exist in five years.
Combine this with the threats to our car culture -- including resumed high fuel costs and the equal probability of scarcities and shortages, along with falling incomes and lost access to credit -- and you have a continental-sized nation that nobody can travel around.
Rebuilding the nation's passenger railroad has got to be put at the top of our priority list. We had a system not so long ago that was the envy of the world; now we have service that the Bulgarians would be ashamed of.
The tracks are still lying out there rusting in the rain, waiting to be fixed. The job doesn't require the reinvention of anything -- we already know how to do it. Rebuilding the system would put scores of thousands of people to work at meaningful jobs at all levels. The fact that we're barely talking about it shows what an unserious people we have become.
Rebuilding the American passenger-railroad system has an additional urgent objective: We need a doable project that can build our confidence and sense of collective purpose in facing all the other extraordinary challenges posed by the long emergency -- especially rebuilding local networks of commerce and relocalizing agriculture.
There's been a lot of talk about "hope" in our politics lately. Real hope is generated among people who are confident in their abilities to contend with the circumstances that reality sends their way, proving to themselves that they are competent and able to respond intelligently to the imperatives of their time.
We are, in effect, our own generators of hope. Rebuilding the American railroad system is an excellent place to start recovering our sense of purpose.
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Posted by: weathered on Nov 4, 2009 3:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By incorporating new bold design & technologies we might actually be engaged in something we can feel good about.
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Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Nov 4, 2009 4:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans travel around the world more now that in earlier times, but there still seems to be a strong majority who have never experienced the wonderful train systems of Europe or Asia. There is a tremendous freedom that you can experience by not having to navigate unfamiliar streets or find a parking place. It is pleasure that is foreign to most Americans, that it is possible to read or even just think about something pleasant while in route to a destination. You don't have to be alert to the dangers posed by other drivers or the dangers you yourself might pose to pedestrians. It can be a very liberating experience.
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Posted by: goodsensecynic on Nov 4, 2009 5:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem with a previous post is that, although trains are splendid substitutes for planes (despite the "modern improvements" such as the elimination of comfortable seats, fine dining and bar cars), they don't do much for mobility when the destination is reached.
Absent decent public transit, the apparent advantages of having a car of one's own are likely to seem important to travellers. There are creative options to be explored in the provision of local transportation, but it is not so much the "freedom" to drive on unfamiliar streets and pay ghastly fees for parking, but the "convenience" of the automobile for local sight-seeing that makes it hard to wean Americans off the gas teat.
That said, massive investment in railways (no "bullet" trains, please) are a fine idea except, of course, when I need to commute to Honolulu.
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» Definitely should be building high-speed rail systems while upgrading the existing rail system
Posted by: cplot
» Taking my cue from James Howard Kunstler
Posted by: goodsensecynic
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Posted by: Celtic Tiger on Nov 4, 2009 5:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We drove to Albany because our last "all train" trip to NYC took 12 hours...most of which were spent on various sidings between Rochester and Albany. I've also traveled between Chicago and Santa Fe by train. Comfortable, scenic, and affordable.
Kunstler's counsel to rebuild is a great idea and should happen. But it won't mainly because the solons in D.C. fly everywhere in private jets or government planes. And, because the government now owns GM, being in hock to the US car industry precludes smart investment in rail.
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» You obviously did't get the idea
Posted by: Ahimsa
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Posted by: otto on Nov 4, 2009 6:02 AM
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Nov 4, 2009 6:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Massive crowds and security. DHS goons stopping grandmothers and confiscating bottles of after-shave from people's luggage.
Gore Vidal remarked that flying somewhere today is an experience both terrifying and boring.
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Posted by: ACEwing on Nov 4, 2009 6:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why should the Europeans have all the fun?
Oh, and our daughter has lived 15 years in Hamburg. In that time, all the rolling stock on the city's huge light-rail system has been replaced twice . . .
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Posted by: Karlh on Nov 4, 2009 6:48 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE:AGANOMIC CONSERVATIVES guarantee that it will never happen.
Posted by: kettleblack
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Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Nov 4, 2009 6:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hope that Warren Buffet's recent purchase of a train company will help bring trains back. It is a totally wonderful idea and very necessary for half a dozen reasons.
I live right next to what must be one of the last remaining trains in America. It goes by about 10 times a day, mostly carrying freight. The trains are old, rusty and beat up, but they still move. I watch those trains go by and pretend it is 1965 when my back and feet didn't hurt so frigging much. Gotta feel that joy wherever you can!
Luv,
Granny
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» Buffett Is In It To Make Big Bucks
Posted by: FoonTheElder
» RE: Buffett Is In It To Make Big Bucks
Posted by: Grandma Crabby
» Probably will help
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
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Posted by: frankly1 on Nov 4, 2009 7:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» yes sir
Posted by: Grandma Crabby
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Posted by: mnstra on Nov 4, 2009 7:28 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First a foremost is to start rationing all energy starting with the bastards on wall street.
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Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on Nov 4, 2009 8:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This was in the 40s and, it was terrific.
I was just a little kid and, even though I was only about 7 or 8 Y/O, it totally blew me away.
My next trip was in 1953 from Chicago to the world boy scout jamboree in CA.
This was on the Santa Fe and was wonderful as was the trip home.
Since then, I've taken a few more train trips, the last one being the Amtrak "Empire Builder" from Milwaukee to Seattle.
Unfortunately, the part of the trip through the Cascades was at night which was incredibly ignorant on their part.
The trip home was 180o different as, it was daytine through the Columbia River Gorge, the Sierras and the Rockies.
One thing that a lot of the inexperienced don't realize is that trains go where there are no roads and the scenery is magnificent.
I will be taking a couple more trips in the ner future as, even though it ain't your daddy's train, it is still a treat.
OK, now for some resentful asshole to bitch, piss and moan about "all the negatives" of train travel.
Your turn.
In the meantime, enjoy~~
ZOOOOOOOOOOM
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Posted by: drfun on Nov 4, 2009 8:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Instead, Reagan's contribution was nearly tripling of the deficit on Pentagon systems that still can't function as envisioned. That had nothing to do with the collapse of the former U.S.S.R., but everything to do with your great-grandchildren being born debt-slaves.
Reagan "Freedom Fighter's" Saddam Hussein and Osma Bin Laden are relabeled "Terrorist's" and trillions of $'s, with billions unaccounted for are wasted in farce Wars Of Terror.
More $'s are needed to bailout the various industries that have received trillions in bailout monies due to deregulation as championed by Reagan like the S & L, Junk bonds, Dot.com, Sub-Prime, CDO's and the recent bank bailouts. Reagan's first wife opinion of "Extreme Mental Cruelty" can be uttered by every tax-paying American citizen.
The Treason fomenting Iran-Contra weapons for cocaine scandle would not have channeled weapons to "Terrorist's", then use these $'s to exchange more weapons for cocaine, to spawn the crack epidemic experienced in the 80's.
Just think how much better off the world would have been if the wife and political party swapping Reagan had not been elected president to marry a 3 month pregnant Nancy. If real "Family Values" had been on display by her mentor, then possibly Sarah Palin would not have engaged in pre-marital sex resulting in pregnancy, giving her daughter the encouragement to do the same.
The world would be a safer place, U.S. would be not so beholden to M.E. oil and many $'s could have been invested in technology that really would have befitted the U.S., instead of creating more disdain for its foreign policies that don't consider historical facts in their concepts.
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» RE: If the Carter Energy Policy had been followed through upon,
Posted by: madregal
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Posted by: lclark on Nov 4, 2009 9:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And cars. You can drive your car to Washington, the take it by train to Orlando. That should also be expanded so people can take cars with them on travel.
I've taken the train between Albany and NYC (actually from Rennsellaer now). It is comfortable and goes along the Hudson. The seating is large, unlike the planes. And your not subjected to that exercise in social engineering...ah, security, that has been put into place in aurports.
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Posted by: linecrosser on Nov 4, 2009 9:17 AM
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» RE: As a child
Posted by: DaBear
» That must have been a while ago
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: As a child
Posted by: linecrosser
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Posted by: DaBear on Nov 4, 2009 9:41 AM
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That ain't Amtrak by any stretch of even the wildest imagination. That shitstorm is pure unmitigated hell. Sorry, no nostalgia for me...
That said, my grandparents used to tell stories of the extensive inter-urban rail system in the NE USA back in the first half of the 20th century. Hell, my great grandparents met and "courted" on them (he worked as a conductor and she was a frequent rider... in more ways than the obvious apparently).
We need inter-urban (inter-sub/ex-urban too) rail as much as we need inter-city/state and x-continental services. It has to be ubiquitous or it will fail. That's how trains/rail transit works best, fast, efficient and ubiquitous. Rail has to be the larger web linking the smaller webs of public transit systems.
Otherwise rail is just a bunch of stories about "linens" and "comfy seats."
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Posted by: djnoll on Nov 4, 2009 10:23 AM
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A new grid system would be required first-and that would create millions of new jobs and new skill training opportunities. Followed with an electric rail system that would cover not only intercontinental travel, but also strong state and local coverage as well, would also not only help the environment, but also create even more new, skilled jobs in a green economy.
It is time that we started realizing that all the problems this nation faces are all interconnected - education, environmental, energy, economy. The rail system is a way of addressing all of them in one comprehensive manner, and it is up to all of us to make it happen. We start at the state and local levels, not the federal level, demanding comprehensive rail systems in every state that connect with local transit systems. You petition your legislatures and governors to pursue Dept. of Energy and Transportation block grants to help cover the costs. You vote for bonds that will support the costs of this kind of project at the state and local levels. When this is done, all the feds need to do is connect the dots at various points so that the system becomes a unified whole. It becomes the responsibility of each state to maintain its portion of the whole, and to be held responsible when they fail to do so.
Change must start at the local and state levels to be sustainable. It must be in manageable pieces, on a small scale, at the local and state levels. Most successful programs have always worked best at the local levels, but when left to the federal government, the programs failed. Witness Amtrak and Conrail. Now it is time for the states and their citizens to step forward and take over this debate and resolve the issue by taking action to create a new, sustainable power system and rail system. It is necessary to a sane future, and it can be done now with existing technologies.
let Freedom Ring.Community
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Posted by: chaoslegs on Nov 4, 2009 12:56 PM
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My only experience on Amtrak was Minneapolis to Seattle in 1978. I have taken Via Rail from Toronto to Ottawa in 1992 and that was very nice. I think the heavy population corridors Boston to DC in the US, and Quebec City to Toronto (or even Windsor) in Canada are in good shape. The rest should be, but we need to make it systemwide.
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Posted by: hari on Nov 4, 2009 12:59 PM
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But train travel now is difficult. I have run into all the problems that author wrote about. Most of them I can deal with relatively easy because I compare my yearly trips across country as adventures, never knowing what to expect and ready to deal with any eventuality.
Because I am a senior and live on a fixed income, I cannot afford a sleeper, which costs approximately twice as much as a coach seat. The meals are also expensive and have, for the last few years, consisted mainly of reheated prepared foods. So, I wear sweats and I have a little kit that I take along: a lightweight blanket, my own pillow (the ones they give you are about a foot square), and lots of protein and fruit snacks for breakfast and dinner. Lunch is usually relatively cheap and not too bad. Plus, you get a chance to meet some of your fellow passengers, which I always find interesting.
The delays and scheduling difficulties are, I believe, due mostly to the fact that Amtrak does not own the rails it uses. Freight trains always have the right-of-way and passenger trains must pull into sidings when there is a conflict. It only gets worse if the passenger train is delayed for other reasons and gets out-of-synch with the original schedule. Passenger trains really need their own tracks. That would not only make the service better, but would allow them to offer more frequent trips on the short distances.
That said, there are a number of things that could be done immediately or within a reasonable time to make life aboard a long-distance train more liveable.
1) Make showers and dressing rooms available to coach passengers. How they can expect someone to go 3-5 days without showering is beyond me. I'm sure that coach passengers would be willing to pay a reasonable amount for this service, which is free to passengers with sleeping accommodations. There is usually only one small (unisex) dressing room for 2 or 3 coaches and it is very uncomfortable for even the smallest coach passengers to change in one of the restrooms.
2) Keep the bathrooms clean. By the end of a trip, the toilets smell like outhouses. Someone should tell them about composting toilets and bathroom deodorizers. Cleaning the bathrooms at the end of the trip may be more economical, but isn't about to get them more passengers.
3) Provide electrical outlets in all coaches. In the newer cars, there are some, but it is catch-as-catch-can as to whether you get one. 21st century riders come equipped with cell phones, laptops, and game machines, all of which need recharging after a while, in addition to electric razors and hair dryers.
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» Excellent points. May I add one as a friendly amendment
Posted by: cplot
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Posted by: rtihista on Nov 4, 2009 1:09 PM
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» Cross country high-speed trains
Posted by: cplot
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Posted by: av3032 on Nov 4, 2009 1:36 PM
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Most tracks in the USA are not capable of supporting sppeds possible from modern trains in that they were designed years ago for bulk freight movement vice speed.
I voted for a bond measure here in California to build high speed passenger lines and trains. I think that a feasible system would have to include passenger train priority lines. People are not anti-train, they are anti-inconvenience. A high speed train that stopped in San Diego, LA, Santa Barbara and San Francisco would be a tremendous benefit to commuters and tourists alike.
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Posted by: PaulK on Nov 4, 2009 2:05 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Republicans decided that Amtrak was only for the wealthy, so they spruced up the trains, rolled out a big business-class ad campaign and quadrupled Amtrak's fares to pay for the ads. Now Amtrak loses lots of money and doesn't serve many people.
The worst of it is a total loss of transit R&D in the USA. Japanese bullet trains and French TGV trains are twice as fast as any American train. Don't Americans feel stupid, or ripped off?
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Posted by: chugach3Dguy on Nov 4, 2009 4:00 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of my elation was due to the fact that I didn't feel violated and eyeballed like a potential criminal like at the airport. No taking my shoes off and letting low-waged lackeys pat me down and rustle through my belongings. No ridiculous rules about bringing toothpaste or shampoo on board. No extra baggage fees or overly restrictive limits. All the staff was wonderfully cheerful and attentive and our accommodations were snug but clean.
My girlfriend and I met wonderful and interesting people from all over the country, and because of the seating arrangements in the dining car, we always met someone new when it was time to eat. The best though, was by far the food. The cost of the food was included in the ticket price, so you're able to eat and drink to your heart's content! I do wish the seating in our little roomette was a little comfier, but after that experience, I'll always take the train if I have the option. Good job, Amtrak!
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» Southwest Chief too!
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
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Posted by: abusedbypenguins on Nov 4, 2009 6:54 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: GEM-592 on Nov 5, 2009 11:08 AM
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Posted by: frantaylor on Nov 6, 2009 1:21 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The tracks outside of the Northeast Corridor are in TERRIBLE shape.
I took the train to Atlanta. As you approach Atlanta the subway tracks parallel the train tracks. On the return trip our train was passed by a MARTA subway train that was going much faster than we were. Quite depressing.
The transition in Washington DC is like night and day. South of DC the train crawls on crummy freight rails. You have lots of time to admire the kudzu that covers everything in the South. North of DC the train just FLIES! The transition is jarring.
I took the train to Vermont. Somewhere in Massachusetts we had to stop and wait several hours because a switch was broken. After the switch was fixed, the train passed over the newly repaired switch at slower-than-walking speed because the engineer did not trust the repair job. We were many hours late getting into Brattleboro.
I've taken the Northeast Corridor route many times, and it is by far my favorite way to travel. I much prefer it to all the alternatives: driving, flying, the bus.
We don't need faster trains. The trains that we already have will go plenty fast. What we need is better rails.
Congress should allocate funds to modernize the rails in this country. It would provide many jobs and would make the train a much more popular alternative.
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Posted by: landnrailroader on Nov 6, 2009 4:00 PM
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I do take exception to comments that deride the quality of the trip south of DC. I have little use for the NEC and Amtrak spends entirely too much of their "free federal money" on it, and way too little on the long distance service. I would point out that everything south of DC is on privately owned tracks and the host railroads that own those tracks spend their money wisely to keep their freight moving. Passenger rail is a far secondary venture as long as the host railroad does not own it.
It is time to disband Amtrak, and turn passenger rail back to the host railroads to operate it. Let the host railroads have a subsidy in the form of tax credits that allow a modest profit, and then let them compete against each other.
Lets see the Sunset Route restored east of NewOrleans, the Pioneer between Denver & Portland/Seattle, the Floridian between Chicago and Florida, the Northwest Hiwatha and a dozen or so other routes and make them all daily. Then it is time for serious HSR discussion.
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Posted by: geneous on Nov 6, 2009 5:30 PM
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At the same time there are people that know what to do, here and right now. The US Highspeed Rail Association (www-dot-ushrs-dot-com) has it figured out. That is, use off-the-shelf technology from Europe or Asia and US construction workers. Separate freight and passenger tracks (even tunnel into city centers) so we can beat the competition in total time and aggravation between origin to destination. The interstate highway system was done with taxes and benefited us (at least until the cost of oil [body count and brown skies] caught up with us). Now is the time to build what we already need and are crippling ourselves without.
Postscrip: Having ridden trains since the 40's, I truly enjoy both modern and nostalgic, thus was in heaven a week ago while riding BNSF's "Showcase" train with more than 400 deserving kids. Life is too short to grow up.
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Posted by: canadaguy on Nov 7, 2009 7:44 AM
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www.selfdestructivebastards.com/2009/11/case-for-rail.html
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Posted by: kikiriki on Nov 10, 2009 12:52 AM
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But to accomplish transportation freedom in the US will never happen, because the founders of this country sold us to special interest groups. And now imagine fighting not just one but almost all of them to achieve something that we truly need. We need to move forward into the future getting away from coal and gasoline. How can we power subways, electric buses, rails and trains is very simple solar energy and half of America gets 365 days of sunshine…Arizona, Nevada, Colorado, Utah just are a few states where solar farms should be developed TODAY…That energy my friends can power the entire US without using coal at all. The groups named will pay lots of $ to get their way and that is the way this country works..
1. Gas companies
2. Airline companies
3. Car companies
4. Car Insurance Companies
5. Road, street & highway construction comp
6. Coal
The 5th group, under the Obama administration is going to do extremely well in the coming years. Thanks to Obama's Administration's counter-cyclical spending package aimed at stimulating general economic recovery helping this main services.
1. New Highway and Street Construction
2. Airport runways, drive ways, carparks, and toll roads.
3. Maintenance and reconstruction of existing roads.
(www.ibisworld.com/industry/retail.aspx?indid=1920&chid=1) article
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Posted by: kikiriki on Nov 10, 2009 1:23 AM
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I wrote my senator Harry Mitchell and I have asked him numerous times to make the rail more accessible to the rest of Arizona metropolitan area. Have anyone been to AZ there's a gas station literally in every corner in Tempe, Mesa, Gilbert, Scottsadale...Insurance companies there are very profitable..
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Posted by: weathered on Nov 4, 2009 3:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By incorporating new bold design & technologies we might actually be engaged in something we can feel good about.
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Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Nov 4, 2009 4:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans travel around the world more now that in earlier times, but there still seems to be a strong majority who have never experienced the wonderful train systems of Europe or Asia. There is a tremendous freedom that you can experience by not having to navigate unfamiliar streets or find a parking place. It is pleasure that is foreign to most Americans, that it is possible to read or even just think about something pleasant while in route to a destination. You don't have to be alert to the dangers posed by other drivers or the dangers you yourself might pose to pedestrians. It can be a very liberating experience.
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Posted by: goodsensecynic on Nov 4, 2009 5:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem with a previous post is that, although trains are splendid substitutes for planes (despite the "modern improvements" such as the elimination of comfortable seats, fine dining and bar cars), they don't do much for mobility when the destination is reached.
Absent decent public transit, the apparent advantages of having a car of one's own are likely to seem important to travellers. There are creative options to be explored in the provision of local transportation, but it is not so much the "freedom" to drive on unfamiliar streets and pay ghastly fees for parking, but the "convenience" of the automobile for local sight-seeing that makes it hard to wean Americans off the gas teat.
That said, massive investment in railways (no "bullet" trains, please) are a fine idea except, of course, when I need to commute to Honolulu.
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» Definitely should be building high-speed rail systems while upgrading the existing rail system
Posted by: cplot
» Taking my cue from James Howard Kunstler
Posted by: goodsensecynic
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Posted by: Celtic Tiger on Nov 4, 2009 5:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We drove to Albany because our last "all train" trip to NYC took 12 hours...most of which were spent on various sidings between Rochester and Albany. I've also traveled between Chicago and Santa Fe by train. Comfortable, scenic, and affordable.
Kunstler's counsel to rebuild is a great idea and should happen. But it won't mainly because the solons in D.C. fly everywhere in private jets or government planes. And, because the government now owns GM, being in hock to the US car industry precludes smart investment in rail.
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» You obviously did't get the idea
Posted by: Ahimsa
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Posted by: otto on Nov 4, 2009 6:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Nov 4, 2009 6:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Massive crowds and security. DHS goons stopping grandmothers and confiscating bottles of after-shave from people's luggage.
Gore Vidal remarked that flying somewhere today is an experience both terrifying and boring.
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Posted by: ACEwing on Nov 4, 2009 6:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why should the Europeans have all the fun?
Oh, and our daughter has lived 15 years in Hamburg. In that time, all the rolling stock on the city's huge light-rail system has been replaced twice . . .
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Posted by: Karlh on Nov 4, 2009 6:48 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE:AGANOMIC CONSERVATIVES guarantee that it will never happen.
Posted by: kettleblack
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Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Nov 4, 2009 6:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hope that Warren Buffet's recent purchase of a train company will help bring trains back. It is a totally wonderful idea and very necessary for half a dozen reasons.
I live right next to what must be one of the last remaining trains in America. It goes by about 10 times a day, mostly carrying freight. The trains are old, rusty and beat up, but they still move. I watch those trains go by and pretend it is 1965 when my back and feet didn't hurt so frigging much. Gotta feel that joy wherever you can!
Luv,
Granny
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» Buffett Is In It To Make Big Bucks
Posted by: FoonTheElder
» RE: Buffett Is In It To Make Big Bucks
Posted by: Grandma Crabby
» Probably will help
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
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Posted by: frankly1 on Nov 4, 2009 7:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» yes sir
Posted by: Grandma Crabby
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Posted by: mnstra on Nov 4, 2009 7:28 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First a foremost is to start rationing all energy starting with the bastards on wall street.
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Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on Nov 4, 2009 8:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This was in the 40s and, it was terrific.
I was just a little kid and, even though I was only about 7 or 8 Y/O, it totally blew me away.
My next trip was in 1953 from Chicago to the world boy scout jamboree in CA.
This was on the Santa Fe and was wonderful as was the trip home.
Since then, I've taken a few more train trips, the last one being the Amtrak "Empire Builder" from Milwaukee to Seattle.
Unfortunately, the part of the trip through the Cascades was at night which was incredibly ignorant on their part.
The trip home was 180o different as, it was daytine through the Columbia River Gorge, the Sierras and the Rockies.
One thing that a lot of the inexperienced don't realize is that trains go where there are no roads and the scenery is magnificent.
I will be taking a couple more trips in the ner future as, even though it ain't your daddy's train, it is still a treat.
OK, now for some resentful asshole to bitch, piss and moan about "all the negatives" of train travel.
Your turn.
In the meantime, enjoy~~
ZOOOOOOOOOOM
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Posted by: drfun on Nov 4, 2009 8:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Instead, Reagan's contribution was nearly tripling of the deficit on Pentagon systems that still can't function as envisioned. That had nothing to do with the collapse of the former U.S.S.R., but everything to do with your great-grandchildren being born debt-slaves.
Reagan "Freedom Fighter's" Saddam Hussein and Osma Bin Laden are relabeled "Terrorist's" and trillions of $'s, with billions unaccounted for are wasted in farce Wars Of Terror.
More $'s are needed to bailout the various industries that have received trillions in bailout monies due to deregulation as championed by Reagan like the S & L, Junk bonds, Dot.com, Sub-Prime, CDO's and the recent bank bailouts. Reagan's first wife opinion of "Extreme Mental Cruelty" can be uttered by every tax-paying American citizen.
The Treason fomenting Iran-Contra weapons for cocaine scandle would not have channeled weapons to "Terrorist's", then use these $'s to exchange more weapons for cocaine, to spawn the crack epidemic experienced in the 80's.
Just think how much better off the world would have been if the wife and political party swapping Reagan had not been elected president to marry a 3 month pregnant Nancy. If real "Family Values" had been on display by her mentor, then possibly Sarah Palin would not have engaged in pre-marital sex resulting in pregnancy, giving her daughter the encouragement to do the same.
The world would be a safer place, U.S. would be not so beholden to M.E. oil and many $'s could have been invested in technology that really would have befitted the U.S., instead of creating more disdain for its foreign policies that don't consider historical facts in their concepts.
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» RE: If the Carter Energy Policy had been followed through upon,
Posted by: madregal
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Posted by: lclark on Nov 4, 2009 9:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And cars. You can drive your car to Washington, the take it by train to Orlando. That should also be expanded so people can take cars with them on travel.
I've taken the train between Albany and NYC (actually from Rennsellaer now). It is comfortable and goes along the Hudson. The seating is large, unlike the planes. And your not subjected to that exercise in social engineering...ah, security, that has been put into place in aurports.
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Posted by: linecrosser on Nov 4, 2009 9:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: As a child
Posted by: DaBear
» That must have been a while ago
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: As a child
Posted by: linecrosser
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Posted by: DaBear on Nov 4, 2009 9:41 AM
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That ain't Amtrak by any stretch of even the wildest imagination. That shitstorm is pure unmitigated hell. Sorry, no nostalgia for me...
That said, my grandparents used to tell stories of the extensive inter-urban rail system in the NE USA back in the first half of the 20th century. Hell, my great grandparents met and "courted" on them (he worked as a conductor and she was a frequent rider... in more ways than the obvious apparently).
We need inter-urban (inter-sub/ex-urban too) rail as much as we need inter-city/state and x-continental services. It has to be ubiquitous or it will fail. That's how trains/rail transit works best, fast, efficient and ubiquitous. Rail has to be the larger web linking the smaller webs of public transit systems.
Otherwise rail is just a bunch of stories about "linens" and "comfy seats."
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Posted by: djnoll on Nov 4, 2009 10:23 AM
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A new grid system would be required first-and that would create millions of new jobs and new skill training opportunities. Followed with an electric rail system that would cover not only intercontinental travel, but also strong state and local coverage as well, would also not only help the environment, but also create even more new, skilled jobs in a green economy.
It is time that we started realizing that all the problems this nation faces are all interconnected - education, environmental, energy, economy. The rail system is a way of addressing all of them in one comprehensive manner, and it is up to all of us to make it happen. We start at the state and local levels, not the federal level, demanding comprehensive rail systems in every state that connect with local transit systems. You petition your legislatures and governors to pursue Dept. of Energy and Transportation block grants to help cover the costs. You vote for bonds that will support the costs of this kind of project at the state and local levels. When this is done, all the feds need to do is connect the dots at various points so that the system becomes a unified whole. It becomes the responsibility of each state to maintain its portion of the whole, and to be held responsible when they fail to do so.
Change must start at the local and state levels to be sustainable. It must be in manageable pieces, on a small scale, at the local and state levels. Most successful programs have always worked best at the local levels, but when left to the federal government, the programs failed. Witness Amtrak and Conrail. Now it is time for the states and their citizens to step forward and take over this debate and resolve the issue by taking action to create a new, sustainable power system and rail system. It is necessary to a sane future, and it can be done now with existing technologies.
let Freedom Ring.Community
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Posted by: chaoslegs on Nov 4, 2009 12:56 PM
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My only experience on Amtrak was Minneapolis to Seattle in 1978. I have taken Via Rail from Toronto to Ottawa in 1992 and that was very nice. I think the heavy population corridors Boston to DC in the US, and Quebec City to Toronto (or even Windsor) in Canada are in good shape. The rest should be, but we need to make it systemwide.
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Posted by: hari on Nov 4, 2009 12:59 PM
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But train travel now is difficult. I have run into all the problems that author wrote about. Most of them I can deal with relatively easy because I compare my yearly trips across country as adventures, never knowing what to expect and ready to deal with any eventuality.
Because I am a senior and live on a fixed income, I cannot afford a sleeper, which costs approximately twice as much as a coach seat. The meals are also expensive and have, for the last few years, consisted mainly of reheated prepared foods. So, I wear sweats and I have a little kit that I take along: a lightweight blanket, my own pillow (the ones they give you are about a foot square), and lots of protein and fruit snacks for breakfast and dinner. Lunch is usually relatively cheap and not too bad. Plus, you get a chance to meet some of your fellow passengers, which I always find interesting.
The delays and scheduling difficulties are, I believe, due mostly to the fact that Amtrak does not own the rails it uses. Freight trains always have the right-of-way and passenger trains must pull into sidings when there is a conflict. It only gets worse if the passenger train is delayed for other reasons and gets out-of-synch with the original schedule. Passenger trains really need their own tracks. That would not only make the service better, but would allow them to offer more frequent trips on the short distances.
That said, there are a number of things that could be done immediately or within a reasonable time to make life aboard a long-distance train more liveable.
1) Make showers and dressing rooms available to coach passengers. How they can expect someone to go 3-5 days without showering is beyond me. I'm sure that coach passengers would be willing to pay a reasonable amount for this service, which is free to passengers with sleeping accommodations. There is usually only one small (unisex) dressing room for 2 or 3 coaches and it is very uncomfortable for even the smallest coach passengers to change in one of the restrooms.
2) Keep the bathrooms clean. By the end of a trip, the toilets smell like outhouses. Someone should tell them about composting toilets and bathroom deodorizers. Cleaning the bathrooms at the end of the trip may be more economical, but isn't about to get them more passengers.
3) Provide electrical outlets in all coaches. In the newer cars, there are some, but it is catch-as-catch-can as to whether you get one. 21st century riders come equipped with cell phones, laptops, and game machines, all of which need recharging after a while, in addition to electric razors and hair dryers.
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» Excellent points. May I add one as a friendly amendment
Posted by: cplot
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Posted by: rtihista on Nov 4, 2009 1:09 PM
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» Cross country high-speed trains
Posted by: cplot
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Posted by: av3032 on Nov 4, 2009 1:36 PM
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Most tracks in the USA are not capable of supporting sppeds possible from modern trains in that they were designed years ago for bulk freight movement vice speed.
I voted for a bond measure here in California to build high speed passenger lines and trains. I think that a feasible system would have to include passenger train priority lines. People are not anti-train, they are anti-inconvenience. A high speed train that stopped in San Diego, LA, Santa Barbara and San Francisco would be a tremendous benefit to commuters and tourists alike.
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Posted by: PaulK on Nov 4, 2009 2:05 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Republicans decided that Amtrak was only for the wealthy, so they spruced up the trains, rolled out a big business-class ad campaign and quadrupled Amtrak's fares to pay for the ads. Now Amtrak loses lots of money and doesn't serve many people.
The worst of it is a total loss of transit R&D in the USA. Japanese bullet trains and French TGV trains are twice as fast as any American train. Don't Americans feel stupid, or ripped off?
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Posted by: chugach3Dguy on Nov 4, 2009 4:00 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of my elation was due to the fact that I didn't feel violated and eyeballed like a potential criminal like at the airport. No taking my shoes off and letting low-waged lackeys pat me down and rustle through my belongings. No ridiculous rules about bringing toothpaste or shampoo on board. No extra baggage fees or overly restrictive limits. All the staff was wonderfully cheerful and attentive and our accommodations were snug but clean.
My girlfriend and I met wonderful and interesting people from all over the country, and because of the seating arrangements in the dining car, we always met someone new when it was time to eat. The best though, was by far the food. The cost of the food was included in the ticket price, so you're able to eat and drink to your heart's content! I do wish the seating in our little roomette was a little comfier, but after that experience, I'll always take the train if I have the option. Good job, Amtrak!
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» Southwest Chief too!
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
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Posted by: abusedbypenguins on Nov 4, 2009 6:54 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: GEM-592 on Nov 5, 2009 11:08 AM
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Posted by: frantaylor on Nov 6, 2009 1:21 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The tracks outside of the Northeast Corridor are in TERRIBLE shape.
I took the train to Atlanta. As you approach Atlanta the subway tracks parallel the train tracks. On the return trip our train was passed by a MARTA subway train that was going much faster than we were. Quite depressing.
The transition in Washington DC is like night and day. South of DC the train crawls on crummy freight rails. You have lots of time to admire the kudzu that covers everything in the South. North of DC the train just FLIES! The transition is jarring.
I took the train to Vermont. Somewhere in Massachusetts we had to stop and wait several hours because a switch was broken. After the switch was fixed, the train passed over the newly repaired switch at slower-than-walking speed because the engineer did not trust the repair job. We were many hours late getting into Brattleboro.
I've taken the Northeast Corridor route many times, and it is by far my favorite way to travel. I much prefer it to all the alternatives: driving, flying, the bus.
We don't need faster trains. The trains that we already have will go plenty fast. What we need is better rails.
Congress should allocate funds to modernize the rails in this country. It would provide many jobs and would make the train a much more popular alternative.
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Posted by: landnrailroader on Nov 6, 2009 4:00 PM
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I do take exception to comments that deride the quality of the trip south of DC. I have little use for the NEC and Amtrak spends entirely too much of their "free federal money" on it, and way too little on the long distance service. I would point out that everything south of DC is on privately owned tracks and the host railroads that own those tracks spend their money wisely to keep their freight moving. Passenger rail is a far secondary venture as long as the host railroad does not own it.
It is time to disband Amtrak, and turn passenger rail back to the host railroads to operate it. Let the host railroads have a subsidy in the form of tax credits that allow a modest profit, and then let them compete against each other.
Lets see the Sunset Route restored east of NewOrleans, the Pioneer between Denver & Portland/Seattle, the Floridian between Chicago and Florida, the Northwest Hiwatha and a dozen or so other routes and make them all daily. Then it is time for serious HSR discussion.
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Posted by: geneous on Nov 6, 2009 5:30 PM
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At the same time there are people that know what to do, here and right now. The US Highspeed Rail Association (www-dot-ushrs-dot-com) has it figured out. That is, use off-the-shelf technology from Europe or Asia and US construction workers. Separate freight and passenger tracks (even tunnel into city centers) so we can beat the competition in total time and aggravation between origin to destination. The interstate highway system was done with taxes and benefited us (at least until the cost of oil [body count and brown skies] caught up with us). Now is the time to build what we already need and are crippling ourselves without.
Postscrip: Having ridden trains since the 40's, I truly enjoy both modern and nostalgic, thus was in heaven a week ago while riding BNSF's "Showcase" train with more than 400 deserving kids. Life is too short to grow up.
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Posted by: canadaguy on Nov 7, 2009 7:44 AM
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www.selfdestructivebastards.com/2009/11/case-for-rail.html
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Posted by: kikiriki on Nov 10, 2009 12:52 AM
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But to accomplish transportation freedom in the US will never happen, because the founders of this country sold us to special interest groups. And now imagine fighting not just one but almost all of them to achieve something that we truly need. We need to move forward into the future getting away from coal and gasoline. How can we power subways, electric buses, rails and trains is very simple solar energy and half of America gets 365 days of sunshine…Arizona, Nevada, Colorado, Utah just are a few states where solar farms should be developed TODAY…That energy my friends can power the entire US without using coal at all. The groups named will pay lots of $ to get their way and that is the way this country works..
1. Gas companies
2. Airline companies
3. Car companies
4. Car Insurance Companies
5. Road, street & highway construction comp
6. Coal
The 5th group, under the Obama administration is going to do extremely well in the coming years. Thanks to Obama's Administration's counter-cyclical spending package aimed at stimulating general economic recovery helping this main services.
1. New Highway and Street Construction
2. Airport runways, drive ways, carparks, and toll roads.
3. Maintenance and reconstruction of existing roads.
(www.ibisworld.com/industry/retail.aspx?indid=1920&chid=1) article
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Posted by: kikiriki on Nov 10, 2009 1:23 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wrote my senator Harry Mitchell and I have asked him numerous times to make the rail more accessible to the rest of Arizona metropolitan area. Have anyone been to AZ there's a gas station literally in every corner in Tempe, Mesa, Gilbert, Scottsadale...Insurance companies there are very profitable..
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