comments_imageCOMMENTS: 69

Fox TV's Bizarre New Cartoon Comedy Is a Minstrel Show, Pure and Simple

Fox’s debut of the “The Cleveland Show” is a desperate attempt to work against the improved international image of black people after the election of a black president.
September 30, 2009  |  
 
 
 
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It could be because for the first time America has a black president and the First Lady is a sista, and together with their two beautiful black daughters overnight improved the international image of black people, let alone Americans. But leave it to the diabolical minds at Fox Networks to pick up where BET left off with the debut of their newest show “The Cleveland Show,” where in just 22 minutes they managed to portray black mothers as unmarried promiscuous sexual objects, black teenage girls as headed down the same path as their mothers, young black boys as sexual deviants, and black people period as being unable to speak anything other than Ebonics — all in the name of comedy.

Just like with the character Shirley Q. Liquor, a black unmarried welfare mother who guzzles malt liquor, drives a Caddy, and has 19 “chirrun” some of whom are named Cheeto, Orangello, Chlamydia, and Kmartina, who is routinely performed by a white man in blackface, there’s nothing funny about an animated television series that seeks to legitimize and reinforce every negative stereotype about black people during primetime to the delight of white audiences from coast to coast.

When President Barack Obama was sworn into office, it signaled a new beginning for American politics and the end of mainstream media news reporting as we knew it because every day for the next four years, at least, a black man was going to be the lead story on the evening newscast, and not for committing a crime, dunking a ball, or singing a song. In return, the news media sought to find balance by quietly, yet intentionally, removing black anchors and reporters from newscasts around the country. I guess they figured one Negro making news on a daily basis was enough without having to hear about from one as well.

All black or majority-black casts on television are a rare commodity. Blacks almost all but disappeared from broadcast television years ago, putting black actors and actresses on the endangered species list with their news media counterparts.

Even in today’s economy and with the status of blacks on television, be it entertainment or news, Fox is willing to capitalize off the continued objectification of black women by using animation to over-sexualize their physical characteristics. (At least if the show weren’t animated, a black woman would be getting paid cash money for being objectified on screen, and a lot more than she would for just doing a voiceover, if you know what I’m saying.)

Just like BET knew they were pushing the envelope when they tried to go there with “We Can Do Better,” Fox knows it’s pushing something with “The Cleveland Show,” and it isn’t an envelope. Fox is making an attempt to capitalize off of the negative stereotypes of blacks and laughing all the way to the bank.

Don’t think so? How much do you think companies paid to advertise during a show that featured an overweight, recently divorced black man and his overweight, developmentally challenged black son, who go down south where the father hooks up with his black, overly voluptuous yet promiscuous high school crush only to play father to her delinquent black children—all while speaking whites people’s version of black Ebonics? I’m just saying.

It never ceases to amaze me what’s not off limits when it comes to black people. I say that because I know that had “The Cleveland Show” been pitched as the “The Weismans” or “The Hernandezes” — with the same characters — we’d probably have been watching re-runs of something else Sunday night.

I wonder about the black people who did bother to tune into “The Cleveland Show” debut. Were we so busy laughing that we failed to realize the joke was on us? It’s happened before. Just look at the misogynistic lyrics in rap music recited by black men, financed by white, and bought by both races that continue to portray black women as nothing more than sexual objects to the point where some of us are so confused that we’ve gladly taken on the role.

After the election of a president who is black, but neither divorced nor overweight, and a First Lady who is black but married and raising her two children — children who aren’t having sex prematurely or showing signs of early criminal activity — Fox’s debut of the “The Cleveland Show” is nothing more than a desperate and stealth attempt to work against the improved international image of black people. Fox says it’s animation domination but it’s more like animation demonization—of black people.

And before you ask, “What about ‘The Family Guy?’” – consider this. While “The Family Guy’s” father, son, and daughter may be on the chubby side, remember that the parents are married, the kids attend school regularly, and they all speak pretty good English.


Jasmyne Cannick is a critic and commentator based in Los Angeles who writes about the worlds of pop culture, race, class, sexuality, and politics as it relates to the African-American community. Her work has been featured in the Los Angeles Times and Ebony Magazine. A regular contributor to NPR’s ‘News and Notes,’ she was chosen as one Essence Magazine’s 25 Women Shaping the World.
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Clue:
Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy on Sep 30, 2009 1:00 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Push the red button.


FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

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Don't worry about it...
Posted by: jroth420 on Sep 30, 2009 1:34 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nobody was laughing at that show. It was a piece of junk. I am a HUGE Family Guy fan, and expected so much, but based on the first episode of the Cleveland Show, you won't have to see it on the air for very long. Mercifully, it will be canceled.

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Don't Watch
Posted by: ChrisBrown on Sep 30, 2009 4:44 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You clearly don't like the show. Good thing no one is forcing you to watch it.

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» But some are. Posted by: Parcival01

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was it just me...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Sep 30, 2009 4:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... or was this article quite short on actual examples from the show itself to prove its point?

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Cleveland
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Sep 30, 2009 5:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I saw a few clips, and can tell that it moves too slowly. The only good character is Rollo.

None of the characters on Family Guy are strong enough for their own spin-off. If people want to see characters from Family Guy, they're going to watch Family Guy.

As for the racial accusations, I think they're silly. Family Guy was never about political correctness. The Cleveland Show shouldn't be either. If you want to watch old reruns of the Cosby Show, go find them on another channel.

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C'mon let's be rational about entertainment.
Posted by: Wiieakling on Sep 30, 2009 5:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are all marginalized by stereotypical humor. Throwing around the 'racism' theme and tagging things as such is marginalizing the togetherness of the people in our nation.

My name is Earl is a good example of making fun of Caucasian people. Whatever.

Mind of Mencia is a good example of making fun of Hispanic people. Whatever.

The Cleavland Show is a good example of making fun of African American people. Whatever.

The list is a mile long... when you consider other areas of stereotype... portrayal of Jewish/Christians, GLBT, or WOMEN?!

You don't have to ascribe to that type of humor, I know it's hard to find wholesome television nowawdays, but please understand that we're all victims.

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» thank you Posted by: Drclaw

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Satire
Posted by: ChrisBrown on Sep 30, 2009 5:53 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"It never ceases to amaze me what’s not off limits when it comes to black people. I say that because I know that had “The Cleveland Show” been pitched as the “The Weismans” or “The Hernandezes”..."

This is a silly comment. There are many examples of t.v., movies, radio making fun of Jewish and Hispanic stereotypes.

Whether or not it is funny, do you think "The Cleveland Show" is promoting negative stereotypes of black people? It is trying to make fun of the stereotypes. Should we make every black character on t.v. a brilliant, successful doctor or lawyer with a perfect marriage, family, etc? Doesn't bringing these stereotypes to light and satirizing them more healthy, honest than pretending they don't exist?

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» RE: Satire Posted by: jaglover
» RE: Satire Posted by: sui_generis
» RE: Satire Posted by: felipe
» You are right Posted by: felipe

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Chill out, Jasmyne
Posted by: souffrantfleur on Sep 30, 2009 6:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a cartoon-- and not a very good one at that. Macfarlane's shows are all decidedly unfunny; this is just another one of his unfunny shows. You're looking for racism where it doesn't exist.

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» RE: Chill out, Jasmyne Posted by: jaglover
» RE: Chill out, Jasmyne Posted by: sui_generis

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Really?
Posted by: El Hombre Malo on Sep 30, 2009 6:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I mean...really? Hispanics portray on american media seems to you more respectful than black's? Really?

This article here in Alternet seems to disagree with that notion

I mean, I though Cleveland to be a minstrel ever since I discovered he was voiced by a (terribly good) white actor, but if you cant see the overly stereotipycal portrayal of spanish speaking characters in TV and Movie fiction, you are either blind or dont want to see.

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» RE: eally? Posted by: sui_generis
» RE: eally? Posted by: El Hombre Malo

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Seth McFarlane is laughing his ass off right now...
Posted by: Ayla87 on Sep 30, 2009 6:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...All the way to the bank.


Family guy is a parody of everyday life of middle class americans

American Dad is a parody of right wing conservatism and patriotism.

The Cleaveland Show does is a parody of black people and thier stereotypes.

Every show that MacFarlane has done has isolated a specific class of people and poked fun at them for thier various quirks and naunces. Just because his latest spin off show targets the black community doesn't mean it's an attempt by Fox to push black people back 50 years. It's MacFarlane's attempt to make money by pushing people's buttons. And clearly it's worked.

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Longing for the Cosby Show? Seriously?
Posted by: ergoat2004 on Sep 30, 2009 9:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And what I don't care for is the double standard in who gets to make what joke/observation/critique/satire on what culture.

Where is all the outrage from the black community for "The Boondocks" that has the most off the wall racial stereotypes and cliches and usage of the "N-Word" ... but it's okay because the writer is African American, as are most (if not all?) of the voice cast are black, but for the Cleveland show to make jokes clearly in the same spectrum (and not using the "N-Word"), it's bad because they are white?

By the way, I love the Boondocks, from the first line of the series ("Jesus was black, Ronald Reagan was the devil, and the government knew about 9-11") to the scathing, unflinching critique of "black" culture/community that pulls no punches. What if Dr. MLK Jr. was alive today? Brilliant.

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Hey, I get it and I'm (mostly) white!
Posted by: Joni50 on Sep 30, 2009 9:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's about context, people.

Sure, you can make fun of any group, including whites (eg, redneck jokes, Polish jokes, Jew jokes, Irish jokes, etc.) But these don't exist in a context of 400 years of marginalization and scapegoating. They don't exist in the context of centuries of that group being cast as the eternal "other," the object for projection of the deepest fears, aggressions, and taboo desires of the mainstream collective unconscious. They furthermore don't exist in the context of someone from that group recently being elected to our highest office, thereby challenging said fears, aggressions, and desires of said collective unconsciousness. Moreover, they don't exist in the context of a radical backlash from the powers that be and their brownshirt minions against the due processes of democracy. Finally, they don't exist in the context of coming from the mouthpiece of said powers that be (Fox network).

Context, people, ok?

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oh but it ok when blacks make fun of whites on BET
Posted by: Gilgamesh on Sep 30, 2009 9:18 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
double standards are always unattractive.

maybe you should get mad at the media for portraying every black person as a "gangsta" and things like this wouldnt be on tv to begin with.

the masses of black people in the US reinforce the stereotypes about them all by themselves.

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Boondocks
Posted by: ClassAct on Sep 30, 2009 9:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There already was a show that was a great satire revolving around black leading characters. It was called "The Boondocks" and it featured what I considered to be the second-funniest thing ever on television: Riley whomping Santa Claus with a golf club with the threat that he better come clean on what he owes (with liberal use of the N-word against Santa Claus.
Just for the record, I think the funniest thing ever on television was on The Simpsons when newscaster Kent Brockman offered his assistance to "our new insect overlords."

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TV sitcoms are mostly brainless anyway
Posted by: beastfan on Sep 30, 2009 9:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look at how many "comedies" portray the father of the family as a complete imbecile, and the mother as a controlling bitch.
The TV sitcom formula is old and unfunny. Watch the previews, and hear how the audience is uproariously laughing at yet another sex joke, or insult of the parent by the child. It's very simple; pick up a book or put on a music CD.

By the way, SNL did a sketch where they mocked the naming conventions of black people ("Magnesium", "Cerebellum", "Onomatopoeia"), and it was actually pretty funny.

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Shut Up Jas...
Posted by: theScale on Sep 30, 2009 9:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Get over yourself. It's a cartoon.

Also, what's up with the "Weismans" and "Hernandezes" point you try to make? Makes you seem even more clueless. It's "journalism" like this that makes liberals such an easy target for the right. You all seem like loonies.

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unbelievable
Posted by: sui_generis on Sep 30, 2009 10:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is perhaps the most ignorant, misinformed, poorly researched article I've ever read on Alternet, and considering the quality slide of their choices this year, that's saying something.

Does the author know ANYthing about Seth Macfarlane and Family Guy, AT ALL? Do they understand that every single last character on the original show was ALREADY a stereotype, not just blacks? I'm shocked that nobody in the editorial chain of command at Alternet seems to have the ounce of understanding needed to shoot down this nonsense either, and that you'd want to feature an article like this on their home page, even if it isn't by a direct staffer. Alternet is becoming increasingly marginalized and ignored as they venture farther and farther out onto the very edge of the loony-left fringe in an attempt to out-PC and out-liberal all the other decent progressive sites out there, by publishing inflammatory, mindless rhetoric like this.

As an African American, I'm embarrassed that anybody else had to read this ignorant pile of nonsense, and concerned that it undermines ACTUAL cases of racism and abuses of power against us and other minorities.

Thanks for uplifting the race, "sistah", but you've done nothing but undermine the very positive image of the Obamas that you keep citing over and over, as if it's the only one you can think of. But hey, keep on keepin' it real.

Real ignorant.

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» Perfect Response... Posted by: On the Border
» TOTALLY DISAGREE!! Posted by: Drclaw
» RE: unbelievable Posted by: YogiBear

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Are you kidding me?
Posted by: neko_sake on Sep 30, 2009 10:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seth MacFarlane parodies everyday life in all of his shows! The Cleveland show is just another parody. I think the only thing anyon could find offensive is that he is giving a sarcastic parody of the way people really do view black people today, and he is making those people look stupid. Seriously? You really have no sense of humor? I don't even want to know what you think of The Boondocks.

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Obama is not "black".
Posted by: -matti on Sep 30, 2009 10:50 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He's half European-American and half Kenyan.

Even that description is loose and ignorant on my part because I'm afraid that I don't know the specific ethnic groups in his mother's background or the likely more contiguous and coherent ethnic/tribal group his father belonged to.

But at least I'm not following in the tradition of the "one drop rule" in characterizing our Corporatist-Imperialist President.

What he identifies himself as is a whole other story. But self-identification alone does not guaruntee accuracy in identification.

For instance, Barack Obama and many others self-identify as "American". While this is true in a larger sense, it is decidedly NOT true in the sense that he/they mean it. They mean it as a national group label when it is correctly a geographic one. Obama and these other "Americans" mean to say they are people "from the United States of America", but instead imply that such people represent the totality of those living in the Americas.

In the same way, Obama may self-identify as "black" and yet still not be so. Actually, since "black" is a concept that only applies to people in an abstract cultural sense (and then only poorly), the fact that Obama did NOT spend his formative period in anything like that culture (Hawaii, Harvard) should raise eyebrows over this self-identification straight off. Methinks Mr. Hope and Change's "black"-ness has as much to do with Chicago politics as it does anything else.

But this is all pointless, isn't it. No amount of discussion and persuasion on this subject will be for the good, because the fact that we are even having it is for the ill.

The one truly good thing that should have come out of Obama's success in the Dem Party nomination elections and the public Presidential one would have been the final end of "race" thinking and arguing in the U.S.. Election of a "mixed-race" person should have accomplished this overdue hurdle-leap and allowed us to move on to more practical and pressing matters.

Alas it did not.

Likely because it was never meant to.

What a sad State we find ourselves in.

-matti.

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» RE: Obama is not "black". Posted by: Joni50
» RE: Obama is not "black". Posted by: YogiBear

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Not to mention dogs!
Posted by: jebpgh on Sep 30, 2009 11:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Will no one stick up for Brian? What a stereotype - I mean that dog is obviously being exploited...or what about Stui....I'm crossing them all off my list - let me see now Family Guy, American Dad, the Simpsons, South Park - not to mention Doonesbury (oh sure, you don't think that BD is a bit of a stereotype? or Zonker?)...death to all stereotypes! I promise only to laugh at clever humor that passes the New Yorker smell test for sophistication and elitism.

I thought Cleveland wasn't very funny so that was my first and last episode. Thank God my remote is still functioning.

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Is Seth McFarlane the Producer?
Posted by: Adam_Kirur on Sep 30, 2009 12:06 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If so, I think that this article is a bit off-base. On Family Guy, McFarlane skewers all groups, except for that one ethnic group in America that CANNOT BE CRITICIZED, and he's even poked them a little!

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I don't agree with what you say but I stand by tour right to say it
Posted by: mrfixdit on Sep 30, 2009 2:13 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a sad racial laced rant it provided nothing of substance for building upon and bringing races together. The vision of the president was invoked three times in this short article as if to insinuate that ALL black people are like him and NONE are as portrayed in The Clevland Show. This may come as a shock but our president is half white too therefore he is not our first "black" president he is our first biracial president and I think he has well presented himself as such with much grace and dignity so please don't belittle him by putting him in your little box.

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How do you talk about race then?
Posted by: JoeDiPatera on Sep 30, 2009 5:27 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look, the show wasn't that funny, all things considered, but a minstrel show? Really? Almost all of the racial humor came from the relative cluelessness that most white people (and one bear) have in regards to black people, not the black people themselves.

Just to list a few examples:

1) White people think black men don't get sad, they just get angrier
2) White people think that loudly spouting an Ebonics catchphrase passes as humor for blacks
3) Because the President is black, black people should be expected to weigh in on - or justify - the presidency because, of course, they are black.

And there's a big difference between stereotypes about blacks and unfortunate statistics. Just to address two points that were brought up in the article: a disproportionate number of black people come from broken families or single-parent households and blacks are disproportionately likely to suffer from obesity. These aren't really laugh lines in the show: they're just part of the characters and stories (as lazy and/or ill-conceived as they may be).

Basically, do you think HBO's The Wire is a minstrel show too? I'd like to point out that very few of the show's drug dealers come from economically stable, morally traditional two-parent households that place a high precedent on higher education.

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» It's all about PERCEPTION Posted by: Kym525
» RE: It's all about PERCEPTION Posted by: sui_generis

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Looks Like Garfield
Posted by: ninjanurse on Sep 30, 2009 5:53 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find all of Seth McFarland's shows unwatchable because all his characters have their eyes half closed like the newspaper comic, 'Garfield'. Sorry, but this bothers me.

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» RE: Looks Like Garfield Posted by: TheNamelessCity

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"The Cleveland Show" and "The Sky is Falling" approach Alternet uses
Posted by: angie70 on Sep 30, 2009 6:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While "The Cleveland Show" was pretty bad and really not at all that funny, I didn't think it was offensive...if you approach it from a Seth MacFarlane worldview:).

This article, like so many here on Alternet, uses lots of exaggeration and very little facts to back up its main idea. I consider myself very liberal yet so many times I find Alternet uses a "the sky is falling" approach that is a huge turn-off for me in the same way Fox News is with all its screaming, lies and misplaced accusations.

I wonder if the writer even watched the series premiere. Cleveland is a kind-hearted man who, in the first episode at least, wants to do the right thing and is thrilled to find his high school sweetheart (she didn't strike me as a promiscuous at all) still single. This "Brady Bunch" like family is certainly not fully fleshed out the way good characters should be on television, but neither are they something you'd find in a minstrel show.

As far as "Family Guy" goes...Peter is clearly supposed to be seen as an idiot with crass tastes and limited education. No one has ever (to my knowledge) found his character to be a role model. Lois and Brian are clearly the only shining light bulbs among mostly dim ones. Seth MacFarlane spares NO ONE in his neverending quest to make fun of people, ideas and stereotypes...He's not nearly as clever or funny as he thinks he is, but he is (as far as I can tell) not being nasty or racist.

There were very few laughs to be found in "The Cleveland Show" and it is definitely a far far cry from the wonderful "Cosby Show," but is it racist? I don't think so.Of course, we all approach the same thing differently with so many amazingly varied responses...it's what makes life so interesting and so frustrating.

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The image of black people has been taking a hit LONG before this show
Posted by: Kym525 on Oct 1, 2009 3:28 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The most obvious example of this is BET (which as a black woman I refuse to watch or support in any way). One recent series 'The Game', actually has Kelsey Grammer as its Executive Producer, and the show has every bad stereotype about black people imaginable.

However, one doesn't have to look just at BET. Most of the so-called "black themed" shows in prime time are nothing more than modern-day minstrel shows, and worse these shows are created by other blacks. Of course, "reality shows" like 'I Love New York', 'Flava of Love' and "Cops" (which tend to feature black and brown people more often than white) certainly don't help matters either. I turned off the television a long time ago, but I do have family and friends who love these shows and don't see the harm they do. As far as The Cleveland Show, the fact that it's voiced by a white actor (when there are a lot of talented black voice actors who could have done the part) is typical of Hollywood's so-called "colorblind casting".

But here's the problem. This will definitely come off as racist but it still needs to be said. Most white people aren't very bright in spite of their assertions to the contrary. Most of them lack any serious critical thinking skills and take what they see on television and/or radio as the gospel truth about black people. Most were shocked about 'The Cosby Show' because they couldn't imagine that black people could (were and ARE) successful with loving and attentive parents and intelligent kids.

Don't believe me? Read some of the posts on Alternet whenever an article about race is posted. Now these are supposed to be "liberals" who tend to pride themselves as being smarter than conservatives, and yet many of these white "liberals" can spout off talking points about blacks that come straight from Limbaugh's mouth. Few, if any of them could name ten famous black inventors (without googling the information), nor are they aware that the CEO of Xerox is a black woman (which they know NOW), but dollars to doughnuts they all CAN tell you about the high rates of black male incarceration and why asians (supposedly) do better in society.

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Just a Cartoon, Right?
Posted by: kanekoa64 on Oct 2, 2009 5:35 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think this is much ado about nothing, again.
It wouldn't be the first cartoon starring a Black cast that got similar reviews for being anti-Black. The PJ's had seriously derogatory Black stereotypes but I guess as it was written by a mostly, if not all Black crew, everybody shuts up about it. It was genius level humor and brilliant voiced by a talented cast. I doubt this new show will even scratch the level of social parody achieved by Eddie Murphy's show. Family Guy has a lot of funny moments, but was based on a formulaic routine and tried to be as be as crass as possible. That's what made it so fun! I imagine this effort won't be much different, in the long run. Besides, if you want crass, over the top social parody that should outrage EVERYBODY who's overly sensitive about a cartoon, nothing is going to come close to "Drawn Together".
Now THAT'S a heavy show with LOTS of stuff to get up in arms about.
AND it's funny as HELL! I can't tell you how many times I was left with my jaw hanging open because even I was surprised they went there.

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This is ridiculous
Posted by: cdmsr on Oct 2, 2009 6:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Cleveland Show has aired one episode. Family Guy and American Dad limped along for a while before hitting their stride. And Cleveland will have to go a lot further than the premiere did before it gets half as derogatory to blacks as Family Guy, American Dad and the Simpsons are to whites. Peter Griffin is an idiot (he was actually adjudicated a 'retard' in one episode.) And Homer Simpson? Please!

In fact, the pinnacle of racial and gender equality is on display in TV ads: Black men are now regularly presented in these ads as every bit as stupid and incompetent as white men have been for years.

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You jerks owe me 22 minutes
Posted by: YogiBear on Oct 3, 2009 1:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At the death's door, when I'm gasping for breath, I'll be thinking: "I wish those SOBs at ALternet never mentioned the Clevland Show, because I'd like to not have wasted that 22 minutes of my life."

A talking bear? And did anyone else notice that Clevland Jr. looks just like Peter? Are the Fox cartoonists so poorly paid?

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What Is It About These Feminists--Both Black And White
Posted by: Priam1 on Oct 3, 2009 12:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that have nothing better to do than talk and whine about the inane? Is this all that they think about--constantly keeping score? Is it really that important to constantly harp about such trivia? If you're insulted, write to the management. If you find it distasteful, organize a protest and picket the studio. If this offends you to such a degree, why not write your own script and thereby do something creative as opposed to merely complaining? This is the root problem with Feminists today, they whine and complain and blame it on the white male patriarchal power structure, but never ever do you see them do anything positive to overcome these maligning stereotypes or injustices. If you believe in equality, then complain about the Simpsons and how an obstensibly white male is portrayed as a total Moron and incapable of even one reasonably rational thought. Show me the letters and protest marches you've undertaken for the poor downtrodden socially lampooned cartooned males and then I won't take you for just another hypocrital self indulgent racist.

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Is it just me???
Posted by: leftinAK on Oct 3, 2009 8:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This arcticle was one of the worst pieces of writing I have read in a long, long time.
Removal of black anchors? Really?
"It never ceases to amaze me what’s not off limits when it comes to black people." Off limits? Why just black people? Why anybody at all???
Whining, whining, whining...
That's all I'm hearing out of AlterNet articles lately. I'm getting to the point where I cringe when I see another post in my email.
Come on AlterNet. REAL JOURNALISM PLEASE.

thank you.

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I cannot bring myself to watch ANYTHING on Fox
Posted by: Ellie1 on Oct 4, 2009 7:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
because nothing on that network is reliable, enjoyable, or worth my time.

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hi
Posted by: wallace530 on Oct 13, 2009 6:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Alternet Comments:

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Clue:
Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy on Sep 30, 2009 1:00 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Push the red button.


FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

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Don't worry about it...
Posted by: jroth420 on Sep 30, 2009 1:34 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nobody was laughing at that show. It was a piece of junk. I am a HUGE Family Guy fan, and expected so much, but based on the first episode of the Cleveland Show, you won't have to see it on the air for very long. Mercifully, it will be canceled.

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Don't Watch
Posted by: ChrisBrown on Sep 30, 2009 4:44 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You clearly don't like the show. Good thing no one is forcing you to watch it.

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» But some are. Posted by: Parcival01

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was it just me...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Sep 30, 2009 4:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... or was this article quite short on actual examples from the show itself to prove its point?

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Cleveland
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Sep 30, 2009 5:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I saw a few clips, and can tell that it moves too slowly. The only good character is Rollo.

None of the characters on Family Guy are strong enough for their own spin-off. If people want to see characters from Family Guy, they're going to watch Family Guy.

As for the racial accusations, I think they're silly. Family Guy was never about political correctness. The Cleveland Show shouldn't be either. If you want to watch old reruns of the Cosby Show, go find them on another channel.

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C'mon let's be rational about entertainment.
Posted by: Wiieakling on Sep 30, 2009 5:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are all marginalized by stereotypical humor. Throwing around the 'racism' theme and tagging things as such is marginalizing the togetherness of the people in our nation.

My name is Earl is a good example of making fun of Caucasian people. Whatever.

Mind of Mencia is a good example of making fun of Hispanic people. Whatever.

The Cleavland Show is a good example of making fun of African American people. Whatever.

The list is a mile long... when you consider other areas of stereotype... portrayal of Jewish/Christians, GLBT, or WOMEN?!

You don't have to ascribe to that type of humor, I know it's hard to find wholesome television nowawdays, but please understand that we're all victims.

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» thank you Posted by: Drclaw

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Satire
Posted by: ChrisBrown on Sep 30, 2009 5:53 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"It never ceases to amaze me what’s not off limits when it comes to black people. I say that because I know that had “The Cleveland Show” been pitched as the “The Weismans” or “The Hernandezes”..."

This is a silly comment. There are many examples of t.v., movies, radio making fun of Jewish and Hispanic stereotypes.

Whether or not it is funny, do you think "The Cleveland Show" is promoting negative stereotypes of black people? It is trying to make fun of the stereotypes. Should we make every black character on t.v. a brilliant, successful doctor or lawyer with a perfect marriage, family, etc? Doesn't bringing these stereotypes to light and satirizing them more healthy, honest than pretending they don't exist?

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» RE: Satire Posted by: jaglover
» RE: Satire Posted by: sui_generis
» RE: Satire Posted by: felipe
» You are right Posted by: felipe

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Chill out, Jasmyne
Posted by: souffrantfleur on Sep 30, 2009 6:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a cartoon-- and not a very good one at that. Macfarlane's shows are all decidedly unfunny; this is just another one of his unfunny shows. You're looking for racism where it doesn't exist.

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» RE: Chill out, Jasmyne Posted by: jaglover
» RE: Chill out, Jasmyne Posted by: sui_generis

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Really?
Posted by: El Hombre Malo on Sep 30, 2009 6:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I mean...really? Hispanics portray on american media seems to you more respectful than black's? Really?

This article here in Alternet seems to disagree with that notion

I mean, I though Cleveland to be a minstrel ever since I discovered he was voiced by a (terribly good) white actor, but if you cant see the overly stereotipycal portrayal of spanish speaking characters in TV and Movie fiction, you are either blind or dont want to see.

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» RE: eally? Posted by: sui_generis
» RE: eally? Posted by: El Hombre Malo

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Seth McFarlane is laughing his ass off right now...
Posted by: Ayla87 on Sep 30, 2009 6:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...All the way to the bank.


Family guy is a parody of everyday life of middle class americans

American Dad is a parody of right wing conservatism and patriotism.

The Cleaveland Show does is a parody of black people and thier stereotypes.

Every show that MacFarlane has done has isolated a specific class of people and poked fun at them for thier various quirks and naunces. Just because his latest spin off show targets the black community doesn't mean it's an attempt by Fox to push black people back 50 years. It's MacFarlane's attempt to make money by pushing people's buttons. And clearly it's worked.

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Longing for the Cosby Show? Seriously?
Posted by: ergoat2004 on Sep 30, 2009 9:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And what I don't care for is the double standard in who gets to make what joke/observation/critique/satire on what culture.

Where is all the outrage from the black community for "The Boondocks" that has the most off the wall racial stereotypes and cliches and usage of the "N-Word" ... but it's okay because the writer is African American, as are most (if not all?) of the voice cast are black, but for the Cleveland show to make jokes clearly in the same spectrum (and not using the "N-Word"), it's bad because they are white?

By the way, I love the Boondocks, from the first line of the series ("Jesus was black, Ronald Reagan was the devil, and the government knew about 9-11") to the scathing, unflinching critique of "black" culture/community that pulls no punches. What if Dr. MLK Jr. was alive today? Brilliant.

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Hey, I get it and I'm (mostly) white!
Posted by: Joni50 on Sep 30, 2009 9:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's about context, people.

Sure, you can make fun of any group, including whites (eg, redneck jokes, Polish jokes, Jew jokes, Irish jokes, etc.) But these don't exist in a context of 400 years of marginalization and scapegoating. They don't exist in the context of centuries of that group being cast as the eternal "other," the object for projection of the deepest fears, aggressions, and taboo desires of the mainstream collective unconscious. They furthermore don't exist in the context of someone from that group recently being elected to our highest office, thereby challenging said fears, aggressions, and desires of said collective unconsciousness. Moreover, they don't exist in the context of a radical backlash from the powers that be and their brownshirt minions against the due processes of democracy. Finally, they don't exist in the context of coming from the mouthpiece of said powers that be (Fox network).

Context, people, ok?

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oh but it ok when blacks make fun of whites on BET
Posted by: Gilgamesh on Sep 30, 2009 9:18 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
double standards are always unattractive.

maybe you should get mad at the media for portraying every black person as a "gangsta" and things like this wouldnt be on tv to begin with.

the masses of black people in the US reinforce the stereotypes about them all by themselves.

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Boondocks
Posted by: ClassAct on Sep 30, 2009 9:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There already was a show that was a great satire revolving around black leading characters. It was called "The Boondocks" and it featured what I considered to be the second-funniest thing ever on television: Riley whomping Santa Claus with a golf club with the threat that he better come clean on what he owes (with liberal use of the N-word against Santa Claus.
Just for the record, I think the funniest thing ever on television was on The Simpsons when newscaster Kent Brockman offered his assistance to "our new insect overlords."

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TV sitcoms are mostly brainless anyway
Posted by: beastfan on Sep 30, 2009 9:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look at how many "comedies" portray the father of the family as a complete imbecile, and the mother as a controlling bitch.
The TV sitcom formula is old and unfunny. Watch the previews, and hear how the audience is uproariously laughing at yet another sex joke, or insult of the parent by the child. It's very simple; pick up a book or put on a music CD.

By the way, SNL did a sketch where they mocked the naming conventions of black people ("Magnesium", "Cerebellum", "Onomatopoeia"), and it was actually pretty funny.

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Shut Up Jas...
Posted by: theScale on Sep 30, 2009 9:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Get over yourself. It's a cartoon.

Also, what's up with the "Weismans" and "Hernandezes" point you try to make? Makes you seem even more clueless. It's "journalism" like this that makes liberals such an easy target for the right. You all seem like loonies.

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unbelievable
Posted by: sui_generis on Sep 30, 2009 10:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is perhaps the most ignorant, misinformed, poorly researched article I've ever read on Alternet, and considering the quality slide of their choices this year, that's saying something.

Does the author know ANYthing about Seth Macfarlane and Family Guy, AT ALL? Do they understand that every single last character on the original show was ALREADY a stereotype, not just blacks? I'm shocked that nobody in the editorial chain of command at Alternet seems to have the ounce of understanding needed to shoot down this nonsense either, and that you'd want to feature an article like this on their home page, even if it isn't by a direct staffer. Alternet is becoming increasingly marginalized and ignored as they venture farther and farther out onto the very edge of the loony-left fringe in an attempt to out-PC and out-liberal all the other decent progressive sites out there, by publishing inflammatory, mindless rhetoric like this.

As an African American, I'm embarrassed that anybody else had to read this ignorant pile of nonsense, and concerned that it undermines ACTUAL cases of racism and abuses of power against us and other minorities.

Thanks for uplifting the race, "sistah", but you've done nothing but undermine the very positive image of the Obamas that you keep citing over and over, as if it's the only one you can think of. But hey, keep on keepin' it real.

Real ignorant.

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» Perfect Response... Posted by: On the Border
» TOTALLY DISAGREE!! Posted by: Drclaw
» RE: unbelievable Posted by: YogiBear

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Are you kidding me?
Posted by: neko_sake on Sep 30, 2009 10:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seth MacFarlane parodies everyday life in all of his shows! The Cleveland show is just another parody. I think the only thing anyon could find offensive is that he is giving a sarcastic parody of the way people really do view black people today, and he is making those people look stupid. Seriously? You really have no sense of humor? I don't even want to know what you think of The Boondocks.

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Obama is not "black".
Posted by: -matti on Sep 30, 2009 10:50 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He's half European-American and half Kenyan.

Even that description is loose and ignorant on my part because I'm afraid that I don't know the specific ethnic groups in his mother's background or the likely more contiguous and coherent ethnic/tribal group his father belonged to.

But at least I'm not following in the tradition of the "one drop rule" in characterizing our Corporatist-Imperialist President.

What he identifies himself as is a whole other story. But self-identification alone does not guaruntee accuracy in identification.

For instance, Barack Obama and many others self-identify as "American". While this is true in a larger sense, it is decidedly NOT true in the sense that he/they mean it. They mean it as a national group label when it is correctly a geographic one. Obama and these other "Americans" mean to say they are people "from the United States of America", but instead imply that such people represent the totality of those living in the Americas.

In the same way, Obama may self-identify as "black" and yet still not be so. Actually, since "black" is a concept that only applies to people in an abstract cultural sense (and then only poorly), the fact that Obama did NOT spend his formative period in anything like that culture (Hawaii, Harvard) should raise eyebrows over this self-identification straight off. Methinks Mr. Hope and Change's "black"-ness has as much to do with Chicago politics as it does anything else.

But this is all pointless, isn't it. No amount of discussion and persuasion on this subject will be for the good, because the fact that we are even having it is for the ill.

The one truly good thing that should have come out of Obama's success in the Dem Party nomination elections and the public Presidential one would have been the final end of "race" thinking and arguing in the U.S.. Election of a "mixed-race" person should have accomplished this overdue hurdle-leap and allowed us to move on to more practical and pressing matters.

Alas it did not.

Likely because it was never meant to.

What a sad State we find ourselves in.

-matti.

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» RE: Obama is not "black". Posted by: Joni50
» RE: Obama is not "black". Posted by: YogiBear

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Not to mention dogs!
Posted by: jebpgh on Sep 30, 2009 11:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Will no one stick up for Brian? What a stereotype - I mean that dog is obviously being exploited...or what about Stui....I'm crossing them all off my list - let me see now Family Guy, American Dad, the Simpsons, South Park - not to mention Doonesbury (oh sure, you don't think that BD is a bit of a stereotype? or Zonker?)...death to all stereotypes! I promise only to laugh at clever humor that passes the New Yorker smell test for sophistication and elitism.

I thought Cleveland wasn't very funny so that was my first and last episode. Thank God my remote is still functioning.

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Is Seth McFarlane the Producer?
Posted by: Adam_Kirur on Sep 30, 2009 12:06 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If so, I think that this article is a bit off-base. On Family Guy, McFarlane skewers all groups, except for that one ethnic group in America that CANNOT BE CRITICIZED, and he's even poked them a little!

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I don't agree with what you say but I stand by tour right to say it
Posted by: mrfixdit on Sep 30, 2009 2:13 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a sad racial laced rant it provided nothing of substance for building upon and bringing races together. The vision of the president was invoked three times in this short article as if to insinuate that ALL black people are like him and NONE are as portrayed in The Clevland Show. This may come as a shock but our president is half white too therefore he is not our first "black" president he is our first biracial president and I think he has well presented himself as such with much grace and dignity so please don't belittle him by putting him in your little box.

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How do you talk about race then?
Posted by: JoeDiPatera on Sep 30, 2009 5:27 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look, the show wasn't that funny, all things considered, but a minstrel show? Really? Almost all of the racial humor came from the relative cluelessness that most white people (and one bear) have in regards to black people, not the black people themselves.

Just to list a few examples:

1) White people think black men don't get sad, they just get angrier
2) White people think that loudly spouting an Ebonics catchphrase passes as humor for blacks
3) Because the President is black, black people should be expected to weigh in on - or justify - the presidency because, of course, they are black.

And there's a big difference between stereotypes about blacks and unfortunate statistics. Just to address two points that were brought up in the article: a disproportionate number of black people come from broken families or single-parent households and blacks are disproportionately likely to suffer from obesity. These aren't really laugh lines in the show: they're just part of the characters and stories (as lazy and/or ill-conceived as they may be).

Basically, do you think HBO's The Wire is a minstrel show too? I'd like to point out that very few of the show's drug dealers come from economically stable, morally traditional two-parent households that place a high precedent on higher education.

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» It's all about PERCEPTION Posted by: Kym525
» RE: It's all about PERCEPTION Posted by: sui_generis

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Looks Like Garfield
Posted by: ninjanurse on Sep 30, 2009 5:53 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find all of Seth McFarland's shows unwatchable because all his characters have their eyes half closed like the newspaper comic, 'Garfield'. Sorry, but this bothers me.

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» RE: Looks Like Garfield Posted by: TheNamelessCity

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"The Cleveland Show" and "The Sky is Falling" approach Alternet uses
Posted by: angie70 on Sep 30, 2009 6:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While "The Cleveland Show" was pretty bad and really not at all that funny, I didn't think it was offensive...if you approach it from a Seth MacFarlane worldview:).

This article, like so many here on Alternet, uses lots of exaggeration and very little facts to back up its main idea. I consider myself very liberal yet so many times I find Alternet uses a "the sky is falling" approach that is a huge turn-off for me in the same way Fox News is with all its screaming, lies and misplaced accusations.

I wonder if the writer even watched the series premiere. Cleveland is a kind-hearted man who, in the first episode at least, wants to do the right thing and is thrilled to find his high school sweetheart (she didn't strike me as a promiscuous at all) still single. This "Brady Bunch" like family is certainly not fully fleshed out the way good characters should be on television, but neither are they something you'd find in a minstrel show.

As far as "Family Guy" goes...Peter is clearly supposed to be seen as an idiot with crass tastes and limited education. No one has ever (to my knowledge) found his character to be a role model. Lois and Brian are clearly the only shining light bulbs among mostly dim ones. Seth MacFarlane spares NO ONE in his neverending quest to make fun of people, ideas and stereotypes...He's not nearly as clever or funny as he thinks he is, but he is (as far as I can tell) not being nasty or racist.

There were very few laughs to be found in "The Cleveland Show" and it is definitely a far far cry from the wonderful "Cosby Show," but is it racist? I don't think so.Of course, we all approach the same thing differently with so many amazingly varied responses...it's what makes life so interesting and so frustrating.

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The image of black people has been taking a hit LONG before this show
Posted by: Kym525 on Oct 1, 2009 3:28 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The most obvious example of this is BET (which as a black woman I refuse to watch or support in any way). One recent series 'The Game', actually has Kelsey Grammer as its Executive Producer, and the show has every bad stereotype about black people imaginable.

However, one doesn't have to look just at BET. Most of the so-called "black themed" shows in prime time are nothing more than modern-day minstrel shows, and worse these shows are created by other blacks. Of course, "reality shows" like 'I Love New York', 'Flava of Love' and "Cops" (which tend to feature black and brown people more often than white) certainly don't help matters either. I turned off the television a long time ago, but I do have family and friends who love these shows and don't see the harm they do. As far as The Cleveland Show, the fact that it's voiced by a white actor (when there are a lot of talented black voice actors who could have done the part) is typical of Hollywood's so-called "colorblind casting".

But here's the problem. This will definitely come off as racist but it still needs to be said. Most white people aren't very bright in spite of their assertions to the contrary. Most of them lack any serious critical thinking skills and take what they see on television and/or radio as the gospel truth about black people. Most were shocked about 'The Cosby Show' because they couldn't imagine that black people could (were and ARE) successful with loving and attentive parents and intelligent kids.

Don't believe me? Read some of the posts on Alternet whenever an article about race is posted. Now these are supposed to be "liberals" who tend to pride themselves as being smarter than conservatives, and yet many of these white "liberals" can spout off talking points about blacks that come straight from Limbaugh's mouth. Few, if any of them could name ten famous black inventors (without googling the information), nor are they aware that the CEO of Xerox is a black woman (which they know NOW), but dollars to doughnuts they all CAN tell you about the high rates of black male incarceration and why asians (supposedly) do better in society.

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Just a Cartoon, Right?
Posted by: kanekoa64 on Oct 2, 2009 5:35 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think this is much ado about nothing, again.
It wouldn't be the first cartoon starring a Black cast that got similar reviews for being anti-Black. The PJ's had seriously derogatory Black stereotypes but I guess as it was written by a mostly, if not all Black crew, everybody shuts up about it. It was genius level humor and brilliant voiced by a talented cast. I doubt this new show will even scratch the level of social parody achieved by Eddie Murphy's show. Family Guy has a lot of funny moments, but was based on a formulaic routine and tried to be as be as crass as possible. That's what made it so fun! I imagine this effort won't be much different, in the long run. Besides, if you want crass, over the top social parody that should outrage EVERYBODY who's overly sensitive about a cartoon, nothing is going to come close to "Drawn Together".
Now THAT'S a heavy show with LOTS of stuff to get up in arms about.
AND it's funny as HELL! I can't tell you how many times I was left with my jaw hanging open because even I was surprised they went there.

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This is ridiculous
Posted by: cdmsr on Oct 2, 2009 6:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Cleveland Show has aired one episode. Family Guy and American Dad limped along for a while before hitting their stride. And Cleveland will have to go a lot further than the premiere did before it gets half as derogatory to blacks as Family Guy, American Dad and the Simpsons are to whites. Peter Griffin is an idiot (he was actually adjudicated a 'retard' in one episode.) And Homer Simpson? Please!

In fact, the pinnacle of racial and gender equality is on display in TV ads: Black men are now regularly presented in these ads as every bit as stupid and incompetent as white men have been for years.

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You jerks owe me 22 minutes
Posted by: YogiBear on Oct 3, 2009 1:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At the death's door, when I'm gasping for breath, I'll be thinking: "I wish those SOBs at ALternet never mentioned the Clevland Show, because I'd like to not have wasted that 22 minutes of my life."

A talking bear? And did anyone else notice that Clevland Jr. looks just like Peter? Are the Fox cartoonists so poorly paid?

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What Is It About These Feminists--Both Black And White
Posted by: Priam1 on Oct 3, 2009 12:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that have nothing better to do than talk and whine about the inane? Is this all that they think about--constantly keeping score? Is it really that important to constantly harp about such trivia? If you're insulted, write to the management. If you find it distasteful, organize a protest and picket the studio. If this offends you to such a degree, why not write your own script and thereby do something creative as opposed to merely complaining? This is the root problem with Feminists today, they whine and complain and blame it on the white male patriarchal power structure, but never ever do you see them do anything positive to overcome these maligning stereotypes or injustices. If you believe in equality, then complain about the Simpsons and how an obstensibly white male is portrayed as a total Moron and incapable of even one reasonably rational thought. Show me the letters and protest marches you've undertaken for the poor downtrodden socially lampooned cartooned males and then I won't take you for just another hypocrital self indulgent racist.

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Is it just me???
Posted by: leftinAK on Oct 3, 2009 8:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This arcticle was one of the worst pieces of writing I have read in a long, long time.
Removal of black anchors? Really?
"It never ceases to amaze me what’s not off limits when it comes to black people." Off limits? Why just black people? Why anybody at all???
Whining, whining, whining...
That's all I'm hearing out of AlterNet articles lately. I'm getting to the point where I cringe when I see another post in my email.
Come on AlterNet. REAL JOURNALISM PLEASE.

thank you.

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I cannot bring myself to watch ANYTHING on Fox
Posted by: Ellie1 on Oct 4, 2009 7:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
because nothing on that network is reliable, enjoyable, or worth my time.

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Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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