Right-Wing Hatemongering Fueled by Christianity?

Dead on assessment, but I differ on the solution.

I was raised a Pentecostal zealot, once often told that I was surely meant to be a pastor or such, and left the church and then religion entirely by the time of my early twenties. Why? Because I saw the church unthinkingly going by its rules of thumb dealing with real-world situations of - where shall we start? - serious spousal and child abuse, fraud, and endangered lives. It put men in charge who were clueless or even a part of the problem. It claimed a superior divinely-inspired wisdom while doing things a ten-year-old could spot. When families were in crisis, people in that structure merely repeated over and over, "I'll pray for you."

Where action should have been taken, where lives being destroyed, those who had the power to act cast the responsibility upwards. It was all a part of a culture thick with guilt-tripping that we all didn't spend enough time praying, because prayer was supposed to get results. I'll assert that all those people praying did nothing but order their own chatter. They did nothing. We all know what happens when good people do nothing.

"I'll pray for you."

That is why if I had to choose between the New Atheists and Christians of any spectrum, I would have to reluctantly go with the atheists, because while some of them, Sam Harris especially, are just as fundamentalist and warmongering as the lunatics they oppose, there is one key difference.

God as the Evangelicals conceive of him is by any reliable means of observation absent from our lives and our world. Any god that exists is so outside of our daily lives that we are truly alone in this world. We alone collectively have the agency and responsibility. We cannot defer it to any idea of the divine. Maybe you can't prove a negative "There is no god", but there is not a single reliable account of "relying on God" being any better than leaving things to mean chance. In other words, it's neglect.

Our world deserves better. Let there be mythologies, let there be stories and parables, let there be figurative personifications of our best moral ideals if we can understand them as such, but if we are to realize a better world, it's up to us to get it together.

Any interpretation of religion that can make the difference it should has to consider its actions before its prayers, and I'm thinking that atheists, being without all the metaphysical abstractions based on strained interpretations of texts from a culture ancient and unknown to most people today, might be the more direct thinkers.

Whoever clears their head and acts to do right by this world, they will show their quality, religious or not.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Jesus would support single payer system.
Like they have in Canada.
Medicare was brought in there by a Baptist minister.He had the correct interpretation of Christ's teachings.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

And their unexplained terrifying fear is causing that hate ... And the Evangelicals and Republicans give voice to that hate though they are the primary reason that fears permeate not just the Evangelicals, but much of the entire working and middle class.

If you want to reach Evangelicals then join in the hate of the government ... the government that cuts education budgets so that schools are a shambles, the government that helps out sourcing their jobs, the government that says you have to be dirt poor to get help with rent or medical bills.

What's the matter with Kansas? The Democrats patronize them while the Republicans join them in hating a system that they, the ever hypocritical Republicans, fully support.

Where is the only place these people can turn ... to the churches that spew venom but give them schools and social support ...

You want to get Christianity back? End the Wars, end the Wall Street Bankster, CEO Government ... You should join them in their hatred for this government that over these last 8 years has killed millions, wasted trillions ... while the poor, working and middle classes sank into economic oblivion.

Just look! The neoliberal Democrats are back to their patronizing ways while they give away the farm to Banksters, Big Health and the MIC ...

You want results? Get Angry, Very Angry at the economic, social and moral injustice they call our governance these days ...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

When are Americans going to start evaluating their beliefs--religious, political, economic, environmental? For those who haven't yet read the free ebook series "In Search of Utopia" (http://andgulliverreturns.info) it is a readable and insightful series that brings us back to the basics of thinking and the needs of our nation and world. Our poor education, as clearly seen in the international education achievement comparisons, seems to make so many people wildly support un-thought-out opinions. Democracy cannot work without people who are both educated and wise.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

In times like these, we have to do more than just get angry, we need to take action. By that I mean taking a more active role in addressing "societal ills". I don't mean demonstrating, I mean actually Doing Someting.

For example, as a way to protest the wasteful nature of a consumer-driven society that is taught to dispose of things when they break down or start to show wear and tear, I have started to rescue and repair small pieces of furniture and send them off to local food banks and such that also offer clothes and household goods to low income families in need.

As for what the Author is proposing, all I can say is that "true change must come from within". As an athiest I can critisize this version of Christrianity all I want, but the leaders won't listen to the likes of me. Someone on the inside has a much better chance as changeing the direction of the arguments taking place.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I completely agree with your article, and I am going to try to get hold of a copy of your book. The actions and attitudes of the fundamentalists have taken them outside anything that could ever be called Christian.
As a lay minister in the Anglican tradition, I too believe that we need to speak out against this hijacking of Christianity that has been taking place. One of the big problems with many of us Christians is that we are afraid of upsetting our own comfort zones, and we turn a blind eye to far too much. At the same time, we need to be careful that we lead with our actions, like those whom you mention - Jimmy Carter, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela etc - and not with endless preaching and rhetoric.
I live on the other side of the Atlantic from the United States, but believe me, the hate tactics of the religious right in America scare us over here as well. I just wish some of our 'moderate' - which sadly, often can be translated to wishy-washy and mealy-mouthed - church leaders would speak out and give some leadership to their congregations. The religious right (I refuse to call them Christian) is not going away, and many unfortunate people are being taken in by their rhetoric. Sadly, it is often those who are already damaged and hurt by life, those who are vulnerable, who get sucked in. Perhaps if more of us Christians reached out a little more sincerely and compassionately to those who are vulnerable, the fundamentalists fanatics would lose some of their power.
Thanks for saying what needed to be said. Let's hope otthers will take up the call.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

This is a very important article from a former "extremist" Christian.

These American neo-Christian fundamentalists share with the extreme Shia Muslims (e.g. President Ahmedinajad of Iran) a "messianic" belief in the imminent return of Christ or of the 12th Imam bringing with them the "fire and brimstone of God's justice", making all our this-world politics irrelevant.

These people voted massively for G W Bush and helped secure his two terms. That is, they voted not for peace (remember Christ's "blessed are the peacemakers"?) and domestic and international co-operation, but for confrontation. We got the disaster of the Iraq occupation and the accompanying neglect of the Afghanistan occupation. So we now have two "Vietnams" partly as a result of these dangerous self-styled Christians.

But it's not only G W Bush, Cheney and the Wolfovitz/Murdoch media neo-conservatives that are to blame - it is every politician in the US and the UK who voted for the Iraq war. And very few of these people were Christian extremists. There must be a recognition by those leaders that their bellicosity was gravely at fault and that Obama's attempt to shift from confrontation to cooperation must be supported and apocalyptic religion opposed.

And the US Catholic bishops are also seriously to blame - had they not adopted a "one worst mortal sin and that's abortion" stance urging their faithful to vote Republican, we might possibly have had enough Catholic votes to swing it for Gore, and so to have been spared G W Bush, these two "Vietnams" and the whole drive for a "uni-polar" (i.e. a US hegemonic "New American Century" world) that has given rise to massive opposition not only from Russia and China but from some of America's closest allies. The Vatican under John Paul II and Benedict XVI is far more realistic in recognising that abortion is only one among a host of mortal sins (for example another is aggressive war, not to speak of genocide).

So what conclusion? Surely it is for "main stream Christians", protestant and Catholic, to work far more closely together to counter the apopalyptic "certainties" of the religious right. There's plenty of ammo for that in the four Gospels. And agnostics and atheists, even while opposing all religion, could join in with the message that "main line " Christianity doea far less harm from their perspective than extremists - Christian or Muslim.

"One kind of religion disastrous, another kind helpful". Yes, let's point out which is which. And it's not only Christianity that has a Janus face. Islam, Hinduism, even Buddhism also have a second, darker face on the "tails" side of their coin. And as for atheism - we've seen enough of the bad side: fascism, communism - gas chambers and gulags! And aren't we suffering now from our idol worship of the Golden Calf - the moral vacuum of "the bottom line"?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

FYI
Jimmy Carter renounced his membership to the Southern Baptist faith in July.
I am waiting for him to finally lose all the falseness that religion or even simple christianity espouses.

You cannot be a christian and think the bible is OK. Not if you actually read that book. To base a life walk on it is ludicrous and you're better off using your brain.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I don't think it was actually the right wing christians that actually hijacked christianity. They have, for the most part, always been there but now they have the support of the right wing media. Without the help of the so called conservative talk show host, I don't think they would have the power that they have been given by those afraid to speak out against the hate the extremest seem to enjoy. I would like to see a law that would make news a non-profit organization. I believe something like that could be done without infringing on the right to a free press.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I will be interested in reading what I hope is a more elaborate plan for non-believers to help 'fix' what is wrong with religion. It would seem somewhat reasonable to implore those non-believers to allow Christianity to reform itself...stop 'firing' so to speak, but I cannot imagine why you would think a non-believer would be qualified or compelled to help clean up and revitalize a belief system they simply do not subscribe to. It is conceivable that we could be safer and live in a more tolerable world without this hateful brand of Christianity, but I cannot imagine that a 'Christian' would ever take my advice nor that I could persuade them to alter their beliefs while being honest about my own.

In defense of some of the more 'militant' non-believers...the 'no holes barred' rules of the game employed when Christians were more in favor that allowed a war on anyone who wasn't a believer are suddenly scrapped when they are faced with any defense or retaliation. Now you would like to change the rules of engagement, which may be a nice adult thing to do, but smacks of the school principal allowing a bully to beat the snot out of a kid then stepping in when it looks like the bloodied child is finally going to land a blow.

Let's just say I will be more comfortable when we actually experience Christians having REAL and EQUAL respect for non-believers. You may have to start the reformation without us.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I see Christeranity as a sickness akin to alcoholism and just as alcoholism as its enablers, so does Christeranity. Schaeffer is such a person. He believes that his form of Christeranity is "good" and that of the bigoted Obama-hating evangelical types is "bad." In truth, it is all bad, because it is delusional. It contradicts science and reason, which should be the only guiding forces at work in the world today. Schaeffer disses "the New Atheists," but the new atheists are the same as the old ones, they're just a bit more out of the closet and in your face.

I read Schaeffer's autobiography thinking it would take the far right religious wingnuts to task. It doesn't. He won't even come 'round on the issue of abortion. We had a saying in the Sixties: If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Schaeffer is part of the problem.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

is a media hype. We are much further along now regarding racism than ever before and probably further than most other countries.

People dislike Obama's policies, that doesn't make them a racist - it may make them anti Obama!

Only those that see the world through racist eyes would say anti Obama protestors are racist!

We have our blood sucking mindless media to thank for setting back race relations decades!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

As a student of religion, I see a common thread that unites all religions, at least the theistic ones (perhaps not Buddhism). That thread is that they all emphasize individual salvation. The reward for virtue is immortal life in Heaven. That is a grievous flaw that leads to all kinds of trouble.

The alternative view is that the whole world--not just the world of humans, but of all living things--comes first. An individual life is not important, but the good (defined as what we do to preserve and nurture the world ecosystem) we leave behind, is.

Atheism may adopt a selfish, individualistic mode of thinking or not. Some atheists seem to be quite full of themselves, using their set of beliefs as a flag to inform others of their intelligence. I can't see how their lives contribute any more to the world than their evangelical enemies. Both of them do nothing to nurture the world ecosystem from which we all came.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Come on lets stop mincing words with these 'Armegeddonist' they are at Best followers of Mansons ideology- at worst Serving as minions of Satan.
Charlie Manson was an End of Dayer who wanted to push God's 'plan' so that he and his followers would reap their 'reward'. How heretical, and immoral, was that? When you have Snake Oil Dealers like Hagee pushing for Pre-emptive Strikes on Iran-Same goal as Charlies Mass Murder spree to kick start the 'Apocalypse', Just Bigger.
Real Christians are not only aware, but revere the fact Christ never wielded a weapon, never enlisted soldiers and never sought to emass Armies. His only 'weapon' was the Word- during His Life time and upon His 'Second Coming'.
These Fundementalist admit they do not hold God as "almighty", because they feel they must be the ones to ignite the Battle Between Good and Evil. God is apparently a Slacker in their view. What arrogance to demand that this be the Generation to be 'chosen'.
Beyond the fact they admit God is not adhering to their 'Timetable', is the Fact that God apparently has to Prove His 'Almightiness' by defeating Satan in some Great Battle. Seems to me only the 'underling' is the one who has something to prove and works for a 'game Changer'
Further when did Pre Birth Judgement creep into Christianity? When did 'earthly Rewards' become part of the Doctrine.That sounds more like the Karmic ideology of Buddhism, not Christianity. The 'C Streeters' claim they have been pre Blessed with wealth and power. This flies in the Face of Catholism which clearly puts St Peter as the Gatekeeper weeding out the 'sinners'. It is also a dismissal of the Protestant work ethic as well.
This 'Pre determination' not only allows it's followers to justify their 'Blessings' but disrgard those who are being 'punished'. Christ never Taught this- he tended to the lepers, He Healed the Sick, He feed the Poor. he didn't say- 'Gods punishing them in this life, so leave them be'.
Christianity is a great Religious philosophy- when practiced as it was taught by Christ himself. But this group has proven they do not follow that Doctrine, so lets stop granting them right to call themselves such.
In the Christian Faith- "Gods and Guns" is heretical. Only Satan requires Armed militia, not The Almighty, nor Christ- thus seeking to instigate Armegeddon only serves the One who is too weak to conquer it's opponent without the aid of mere mortals. If God Chose to destroy the World, or Satan- he need only wave His hand, He does not need you and your AK47.He is the One and Only God Almighty. Oh Yea of Little Faith.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The hurdle of reforming Christianity from within lies in the very nature of the divide between moderate/ liberal Christians and fundamentalists. Fundamentalists KNOW they have an inside track to The Truth. Moderates are more humble -- as their understanding of religion requires them to be-- and this humility makes it difficult for them to say to their co-religionist wing-nuts; "Sit down. Shut up. You're wrong."

And this is a systemic, not just a personal problem. Only a few years ago I spoke with a minster expressing my growing exasperation with judgmental fundamentalists with the same words; "I want to tell them to sit down, shut up, you're wrong!" And my minister replied that I was the one who needed to sit down, shut up (and meditate and pray.)

So, if this minister is typical then that means we moderates are often ordered not to confront fundamentalists, or fundamentalism in the name of tolerance and harmony.

Except of course, this now means that we are asking ourselves to tolerantly and harmoniously support the intolerance and hatred coming from those co-religionists.

Of course, strategically, the best offense comes from one's own weakness. I would like to see more Christians stress the humility of moderation. I agree with Jewish proscriptions against even writing the name of G-d. We should stress that insisting we know point-for-point details about the end times is sacrilegious arrogance in the extreme.

And -- this has always bugged me -- If The Son Himself did not know "the hour" then who would be so presumptuous to claim to know more then The Son? We were ordered us to live each day as though it were our last. We were also warned us about false prophets.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

In the US it is mostly fundamentalist Christianity but in other nations other fundamentalist religions are just as sick.

The only hope that I see is providing healthy education to our world's children.This is why I endorse David Boulton's remarkable work

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The corruption of power religion creates over people always wins when allowed to. The bible is basically insane. It starts you out believing that a self serving, vane creature murdered every man woman and child on earth because they refused to worship him, (Noah’s ark). Please, If you believe this kind of stuff you are not mentally healthy.
Thomas Paine realized this and sparked the American Revolution. Many of our Founding Fathers fought for freedom from religion.
This does not mean they did not believe in God. They just realized that branding God for ones political gain is evil.
For further research check out Deism.com and discover the power of reason over religion.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

While I agree with your article, all religious extremism is dangerous! While those that tout "Biblical/Koran/Torah etc. word as truth" the truth is most of these "followers" are not just "fearful", but are unwilling to open their minds enough to apply those teachings in their own lives. All holy books have in them teachings about social justice - you know those things that should apply to a just society: health-care, education, taking care of the poor & the destitute, usury and laws against, etc., however, most of these people are too poor in spirit to open their minds enough to understand how that should really look in their lives.

Their fear and closed-mindedness has allowed them to be prey to the lying, mentally challenged, swindling, obstructionists on the right. You know, the Rush's, Newts, and Dicks on the right, that are making money hand over fist as they sell out these people by making them believe that the rich and corporate that are fleecing their pockets is someone else's (read: democrats) fault, or that "they" are not working hard enough to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps! While both the left and the right have sold their souls for the love of money, the policies that have been perpetrated by the right and their "free-market" mentality - has wreaked havoc on 90% of Americans with the force of a tsunami!

It was people that thought this way that continued to enslave their fellow man, justify Jim Crow, attempt to decimate the native nations that were here for their westward expansion, imported and then marginalized the Chinese immigrants, interned the Japanese during WWII, and continue to shout loudly about the Latino immigrants that come into this nation - and pick the food! These people who are so busy trying to start armageddon so that they can be with their Lord and savior really need to do all of US a favor and either shut up and stay on their knees so that thinking adults can produce policy which will help them out, or take themselves to their Lord and Savior - maybe he can show them the light they need to see!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Reading Hitler's "Mein Kamph" makes it clear that Hitler was a Fundamentalist Christian trying to do God's will as he saw it. He saw it as his Christian duty to eradicate all the Jews in the world, what he called "the final solution". These so-called Christians are doing the work of the anti-Christ: Jesus taught us to love our neighbor as we love ourselves. The message of the Anti-Christ is hate.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The author seems to be on the right path, however he seems a little too hateful for us mystics who are traveling the same journey. I think he is trying to hard to sell a book, hate like sex sells. If one actually applied some of that rational thought, their perception of the world may be different. Here is an arithmetic problem for you to solve. If 85% of the people in the US claim to be religious and 83% claim some form of Christianity as their religion, how many Christians voted for Obama? Here is another news flash for you; Jewish fundamentalists, Christian fundamentalist, and Islamic fundamentalist are a small minority of the Trinity on earth. How did they achieve such power, they sure control the news cycle? We mystics have been waiting a long time and our answer to this question has always been, “and the Holy Spirit entered into their hearts that they would agree to turn their land over to the beast.” The fundamentalist are right about one thing, it is the end of days. It is the end of their days and the beginning of ours. Welcome to the revolution of 2012.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

No, Christianity can't be fixed by Christians, or atheists either for that matter. Two reasons: One, any scholar of christian cannon can tell you that without understanding the social environment in which the scriptures were written there's no way you could understand what is being said in them. These stories related to what was happening at the time and in a social environment that is almost completely divorced from the realities of the present. When you take concepts from another time and another culture and plop them down in the present in western culture it's no wonder they seem insane. They ARE!

Second, Christianity is built on a foundation of surrender to authority. Subjugating one's own will to that of an outside force. The object of Faith is to believe in what cannot be verified. That could be anything a minister says it is. Christianity has become a mind control cult supported by men and women with a political agenda for a world view. If you take Faith out of Christianity you have nothing to hold anyone accountable to the principles of the religion. Christianity is fatally flawed because of Faith, the very cornerstone of the concept.

Because of the gross misunderstanding of the intent of the scriptures and the mind controlling nature of Faith, Christianity cannot be fixed by anyone inside or outside the religion.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I generally commend Frank Schaeffer for his brave voice against the evangelical movement, but I find it interesting that he refers to "the extremes of the New Atheists"; because as an atheist, I find religion to be "the extreme". As one who questions myths, the extreme seems the other way around, to me.

Beyond that point, the author seems concerned that the New Atheists may become a substitute for the evangelical movement. The author prefers that people seek a more modest Christian approach. What Mr. Schaeffer misses in his anxiety is the fact that Atheists don't care what anyone else wants to believe. The problem arises when people want to impose their beliefs on society. If Mr. Schaeffer really and truly believed that evangelicals have become a social problem then he wouldn't be advocating for any form of religion. He would simply state that all beliefs should remain private. Instead, he wants to peddle what is, in his opinion, a more sane form of religion. But, where is the logic? What does it matter to him what people want to believe? Isn't this just another form of hi-jacking the beliefs of others? And, who's to say that his ideal religion wouldn't become hi-jacked by some other form of extremism. Did it ever dawn on him to question if religion is necessary at all? It would seem that he's trying to have it both ways.

Mr. Schaeffer has correctly stated that much good has come from religion. But, much good has come without religion, too; and that would also include hospitals and beautiful music. So, his argument here is a non-starter. Good deeds do not support the need for religion. In fact, if you travel back through history the argument can easily be made that the bad far exceeded the good.

While I give Frank Schaeffer a world of credit for his personal philosophical revolution, I believe he needs to do much more very deep soul searching.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Did you guys ever stop to think that you have nothing to write about but bad Republicans because it's been decades since the Democrats did anything good? Obviously, we are supposed to be motivated to defend Democrats against the assaults of the clearly wrong Right. Obviously, we are supposed to ignore that the Democrats are quite obviously an integral part of the clearly wrong Right. Obviously, we are intended to ignore that the most effective result of the Right being so clearly wrong is that the Democrats' wrongness is consequently made somewhat unclear. But pointing this out over and over again is getting old. Alternet is getting boring.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Mr Schaeffer has not gone far enough.
try Leo Tolstoy's The Kingdom of God is Within You.

The title, a quote from Jesus, pretty much says it all.

We can all stop looking outside of ourselves for Jesus. Stop going to church. You do not need the ministers. Creeds prevent you from ever knowing God.

Emperor Constantine I hijacked Xnty circa 310.
Tolstoy: Helchitsky attributes the degeneration of Christianity to Constantine the Great, whom Pope Sylvester admitted into the Church with all his heathen morals and life. Constantine in his turn endowed the Pope with worldly riches and power. From that time forward these two ruling powers were constantly aiding one another to strive for nothing but outward glory.

Me: Church & State = Ho & Pimp

Tolstoy: The more the understanding of Christ’s teaching was obscured, the more miraculous was introduced into it; and the more miraculous was introduced into it, the more the doctrine was strained from its meaning and the more obscure it became… the more strongly its infallibility had to be asserted, and the less comprehensible the doctrine became.

…a church is a body of men who claim for themselves that they are in complete and sole possession of the truth. And these bodies, having in course of time, aided in part by the support of temporal authorities, developed into powerful institutions, have been the principle obstacles to the diffusion of a true comprehension of the teaching of Christ.

…not only have churches never bound men together in unity; they have always been one of the principal causes of division between men, of their hatred of one another, of wars, battles, inquisitions… and the churches have never served as mediators between men and God. Such mediation is not wanted, and was strictly forbidden by Christ, who has revealed his teaching directly and immediately to each man….

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

That's what we are. For instance, if I go to the grocery store at any given time most of the people in the store will be Christians of some kind. When Christians, in general are bashed, someone is usually painting with a broad brush. If we take religion out of the equation, we are left with a very hostile, belligerant group of people who use their religion as a way to justify actions what would ordinarily land them in jail. They also drag down alot of decent people. The longer we allow the 'religion thing' to serve as a reason for otherwise unacceptable actions the more traction these people gain. They are not inspired by God, the Bible or anything except their selfish need to be superior. They use God, the way they use politics and everything else, to their best advantage. If we were to separate them from their religion (?) they would be nothing more than a street gang. Even street gangs have the guts to organize and function WITHOUT being cowards and bringing God into it. I think it's time to call their bluff. ANNA

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The bible belting Christian wackos of the Amerikan $outh are really KKKristians. Needless to say... if Jesus (a.k.a.: Jeeezass!) ever came back to Planet Over-Birth-Earth, he would NOT be a Christian. And he certainly would NOT be a KKKristian.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

hijacking of Christianity as the source of the hate and anger directed against all things "other" ...

"hijacking?" No, merely returning to their roots. The Jews got their start by killing off anyone and everyone who were "other."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

It'll be a fight between thinkers and believers.
Attempts to sugarcoat the absurdities of organized religions won't do a thing to resolve what's going on now.
The difference between thinkers and believers is obvious to anyone who takes the time to observe their behavior.
In my own experience, my consternation at the way adults debased themselves in church led me to believe they might be CRAZY, what with the way they ignored the facts of physical existence, and let the charlatan on the pulpit transport them into a "what if" world of an omnipresent, albeit unseen super-being overseeing all human activities, and punishing all those who spoke or acted WRONGLY.
That's where thinking comes in folks, that and an inborn capacity to see past incongrous absurdities and the abrogation of (some) adults of their identity as thinking beings, and their willingness to be led down the garden path.
It simply never occurs to some people to question not only the veracity of preachers and politicans, but their basic MORALITY.
That's why orgainzed religions, chief among them the christianity practiced here are considered above criticism or scrutiny, and anyone like a Dawkins or Bill Maher are considered to be vicious bullies, or worse, when, in fact, the proponents of religious myths are exactly the same.
One thing to consider here is that THINKERS, free of religious twaddle have been responsible for all real progress, such as the elimination of some of our most dreaded diseases, the beautiful pictures from the Hubble telescope, the Internet, and our TVs to name a few things.
What do we have to show for adherence to religious doctrine, but poisonous intolerance, wars, crimes against humanity, and other horrors too numerous to mention here?
Will we ever grow up and leave the delusions and hateful intolerance inculcated by religions behind us?
Time will tell, but it seems we're running out of that.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Check out a book called 'Evangelism Does Not Equal Republicans or Democrats'. I forget the woman's name who wrote it, but when I heard her speak, she made a lot of sense of the true mission of being Christian (as opposed to fundamentalism, like Christians and Muslims who have distorted the message of the Bible and the Koran).

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Wanna find a military partner ????
Here is a very interesting place ----------- Kissmilitary.com ---------- .It is the best dating club for seeking military singles, beauties. Military is hero in our heart, and we like people in uniform. You don't have to be a military, but you can meet one...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

To get to the source of some of these problems,people should read " Paul and the Invention of Christianty " and " James the brother of Jesus " Christianity has been tainted from the beggining!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Former president Jimmy Carter went on the record to point out that he believes that religious bigotry is at the heart of the great deal of the extreme animosity being leveled at Evangelical Christianity (NBC News September 15). Carter identified himself as a Southerner with an insider's understanding. There's something he didn't mention however: the special culpability of his own religion – the hatred of Evangelical Christianity – for the over zealous worship of Obama, an almost hyperventilating and ecstatic reaction to our first black president. And that reaction has less to do with race and more to do with the ugliest side of leftism.

The fact is that if you're going to blame one group above all others for the willful ignorance and continuing worship of President Obama the best candidate would be the far left - identified by their extreme hatred and foaming-at-the-mouth towards the evangelical/fundamentalist community. The angry part of the South Carter spoke of is extremely bigoted because it's dominated by a certain type of "Leftist" culture.
........
Gee, that was fun. I should have been a editor. lol

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

i grew up in a very racist, very 'religious' southern town. when i came north to school, i thought i was leaving that behind but... boston proved that wrong. in fact, the north had slaves (indentured servants) 30 years after the south had been trashed and it was boston that was the shipping and admin center of the slave trade.

in fact when i hear 'lincoln freed the slaves' i get nauseous. as senator john calhoun said pre and post civil war... "i have yet to see the moral superiority of industrial over agrarian slavery." and "this war didn't free the slaves; rather it made slaves of us all." abject walmart-slave wages anyone?

it isn't just the jesus freaks who specialize in bigotry, either. downstairs from us here in NYC in the 'liberal' upper east side, a 'liberal jewish family' screams at their son to 'not hang out with that fat gay boy or any of those drug-dealing blacks.' (actually they use the 'n' word and the 'q' word...) meanwhile, moslems chop up little girls clitorises and do mass-killings of gays. and all of these types back vicious mass-murderers like bush-netanyahu-ahmedinejad while saying their prayers. 'gawd is on OUR side!'

not to let uncle tom obama off the hook either. mandating the continuation of the CIA rendition program of outsourced torture of moslems, continuing the endless occupation of iraq, afpak and backing of death squad ruler uribe in colombia, etc.

two years ago, obama was cornered by fox news' bill oreiley about his longtime family minister who said that america was founded and always based on racist genocide. obama stated flatly, "no good american believes those things he says." well, sorry, obama... history shows clearly that some 20-22 million native peoples were exterminated in the lands now called america and 8 million africans were killed in the slave trade process of bringing 8-10 million africans here to build america. that far outstrips the horrors of the nazi holocaust which makes obama a 'holocaust-denier.'

it should be noted that the word religion stems from the same root as allegience and means 'binding the people to the beliefs of the king.' this obviously is the antithesis of spirituality. you'll note that from page one of the bible to the last page of the quran, there are a handful of sentences which have anything at all to do with the soul... evil religions breed evil governments. evil governments breed evil religions. when i go to the next world; i intend to make sure there are none of these rabid demons or their adherents anywhere nearby.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Perception of hostility in "The New Atheism" is a projection of Christian thinking. Christianism has enjoyed a monopoly on Western thinking for over a thousand years, since the last heretics were slaughtered, and cannot face the fact that it does not hold the moral high ground. My spiritual ideas are informed by the older and better teacher, Buddha, and my notions are designated as Buddhism in our language. When Christianism ceases to be a principle in itself, and "ity" like objectivity, or morality, and resigns itself to being designated as an "ism," just another among so many ideas, it might be able to get some perspective on the oblivious self-righteousness and arrogance that characterizes its voices of meekness no less than its voices of attack. The only kind of righteousness that exists is self-righteousness for it is a self that becomes righteous. All selves who believe in god are in fact claiming divine authority for their personal opinions, since obviously a believer would hold the opinion that they believe enjoys divine sanction.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

you're so 'right'. it was the rightwing, not the leftwing that launched the civil rights movement and voting rights for women. its gays and 'witches' that have burned christians at the stake for centuries, not the other way round. i never saw a baptist marine leading a high school football pep rally in 1968 with the chant 'kill the gooks!' the history of christianity is one of peace, love and understanding of all peoples and christians almost never go to war, kill indians and steal their hemisphere or drag millions of slaves out of africa. that's all just a lot of 'leftwing' hooey. and the earth is flat, like the vatican maintained for 200 years after threatening galileo with beheading.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

while buddhism of the world's major religions has been by far and away the least bloodthirsty... buddhism has a long history of the same antisexuality of the jew/christian/moslem doggerel. consider the celibacy imposed on their monasteries. or, as recently exposed, (and i'd long admired the dalai lama), the young tibetan who was found as the future dalai lama at a young age, stated that he had been kept from having any contact with other cultures, any modern media and wasn't allowed to kiss or hug anyone nor engage in romance as a teen. was he warned against masturbation like orthodox jews/christians/moslems have long done about the 'sin of onan'? in other words, that boy was smothered and abused in the name of buddhism.

also, though it took the british colonialists to set it up like this, the buddhist majority in sri lanka has committed massive genocide on the native peoples of the region, particularly the tamil who have been butchered by the hundreds of thousands.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

north is and always was as racist as the south. thinking otherwise is its own form of ignorance and bigotry

i grew up in the racist south then moved to the racist north. and i'm white, at least outside... here in 'liberal' upper east side of NYC, i once came to the defense of a black cashier being assaulted by a white, richly-dressed man who was ACCUSING HER OF BEING 'FOR OJ SIMPSON.' when she asked him why he was bringing that up; he screamed bloody murder and demanded she be fired! I'd been going to that store for 20 years and knew the poor girl under assault. i saved her job and the vicious man turned and told me that he would "find me and get me for what i did." but more shockingly, when i turned to look in back of me i found icy glares and heard someone whisper loudly, "race traitor!"

boston was the center of the slave trade shipping and admin and slaves were sold north and south. in fact, the north kept indentured servitude for 30 years after brutally trashing the south. i grew up in a racist 'religious' southern town but found boston and bensonhurst in NYC as racist as anything southern. ohio and indiana, maryland and pennsylvania were strong KKK areas and northern non-judicial lynchings of blacks racked up numbers almost as large as the south.

when rudy ghouliani told his gestapo it was open season, they killed over 800 people in 'suspicious' circumstances on the streets and in detention, including the famous '41 shots heard round the world' that went into unarmed, crimeless amadou diallo. just as in the south, all his murderers were acquitted of all charges by mostly white juries. needless to say that 90% of these killings by yankee cops were of blacks and some latinos.

in 2006, it was estimated that at least 4-600 NYPD cops were members of aryan nation or the like! i doubt if you can show me a southern town with a quarter that many blatant racists on their force.

also, it should be noted that in 1872, a herald-tribune survey showed that 70% of americans favored the elimination of ALL 'indians.' since there were some 70 million 'indians' in the hemisphere and 20+ million in what is now known as 'america' when the white christian invaded in 1500... and some 3 million left in the panamerican census of 1900... i'd say they virtually got their rabid wish. preachers and priests both north and south bellowed about the need to eradicate the 'heathens,' or at least put them all into concentration camps called reservations, (where natives were often forced at gunpoint into christian churches, as were black slaves.)

one thing is for sure, if you see white christians coming to your shores; if you don't contain them from reporting back to their empire about people and lands to be plundered and stolen wholesale... they'll commit human sacrifice on every last native they can find. this is history. heil history!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Frank Schaeffer's made quite a name for himself by bashing his late father every chance he gets. But who is Frank Schaeffer, anyway? According to those who knew him, Frank was a spoiled brat who ran the institution his father built into the ground while dear old Dad was huffing his last cancer-addled breaths, got a bad reputation in the evangelical community for bad mouthing preachers who weren't fundamentalist enough, and when he'd worn out his welcome, abandoned evangelicalism for that great religion of free-thought called Greek Orthodoxy. Now, as part of the "one true church," Schaeffer is sniping at his former comrades, whom he must believe are going to Hell as per Eastern Orthodox doctrine.

Oh yeah, aside from running his dad's empire into a ditch, he also directed a few low-budget sci-fi and horror films.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

are not true Christians and I really dislike them hijacking my religion. I would call them some kind of religious cult but Christian? No way. Christian beliefs are founded on the New Testament. The Old Testament is everything that built toward Christianity but its rules and laws are completely superseded by Christ's teachings. Why don't these evangelical cultists understand that? Why are they still adhering to the rule of an eye for an eye when Christ said love thine enemies and do good towards them? Why are they spouting hatred toward the president and suggesting murder? Where are their Christian hearts?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Some "Christian" will most likely shoot and kill you for your obvious "Heresy". Stating all the time that if God did not want you dead his bullet would not have killed you when it entered your skull. These people you wish to revert back to "Christianity" are in their own minds farther along the chain of command to the almighty than you so therefore need not listen to you.

Sorry but thats my view...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Schaeffer is not fair to secular humanists because he berates "the New Atheists" as the extremist alternative to supernatural religion based on faith rather than empirical evidence.

Dawkins and Dennet and Haris are not at all typical of 99% of empirical humanists. Very few humanists are aggressive or even open or public about their lack of believe in supernatural/anthropomorphic religions.

Scientific humanists know that they will be reported to authorities and administrators or religious vigilantes by the parents of their students or by some of those religious people that Mr.Schaeffer describes as suffering from feelings of being "left behind" the skeptical critical minded cultures of the modern educated world

Thus school teachers are not allowed to discuss religion in public schools.If they were soon nobody would admit to being religious.
So,candidates for public office must pretend to be "believers" or they will never get elected because the good Christians, Muslims and Jews do not want secular humanist officials, authorities and teachers to be free to say what they really think about supernatural religions.

College and university professors and administrators are also warned that their careers will suffer and their their job be undermined if they say things that religious people are upset by, even if they say these thing sweetly, softly, sensitively and compassionately.

Actually secular humanists who do not believe in supernatural entities like gods, angels, devils, etc. are the most sensitive people because they study and practice psychology and psychiatry. They know that salvation religions exist to help humans to cope with the fear of personal death (Read Otto Rank and Ernest Becker).

It is a healthy sign that Mr. Schaeffer uses psychology so intelligently to explain why the hateful evangelicals are so "scared," upset and acting out in such crazy ways (like Obama with Hitler mustache).

It is a good sign that Mr. Schaeffer worries about the violence that the angry evangelicals may commit.
But they already commit hundred of times more violence than secular humanists, most of whom have never owned a gun, killed a helpless animal, or hit a wife or daughter. Statistics show that the fundamentalist states have the highest violence rates.

The big violence that the evangelicals and Christian fundamentalists do is the massive enthusiasm they show for America's genocidal wars in places like SE Asia (Vietnam)and many nations in the Middle East (Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Pakistan, Iran, Palestine, etc.

Most secular humanists strongy oppose our genocidal wars for profits, oil and gas.

Most Christians support these wars as they supported the Vietnam and Latin American wars of U.S. predatory imperialism.

Christianity encourages blind obedience to exalted authority like the military industrial complex that totally runs our foreign policies, bankupts our nation with war profiteering and corrupts at least 90% of our federal congressional and administrative leaders.

The blind religious acceptance of the War Machine's drive to control the world for profits and salvation of "God's Favorite Nation" will lead us to annihilation of humanity in nuclear wars.
Secular humanists are almost all very concerned about this, while only some Christians are trying to stop it.
Christian Zionists actively encourage and finance America's Doomsday trends.

Blind faith is not only medieval, but dangerous to human survival.

See Daniel Ellsberg's memoir and massive research on how likely a nuclear winter has been and still is (more than ever).
Robert MacDonald Phd. History of Ideas
www.psycho-imperialism.com

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

It's the same g.d. thing where ever you encounter it. Doesn't matter what part of the world you were raised in or what old book you look to for guidance. There are atheist fundamentalists out there too. Our christian wingnuts have got nothing on the nuts in the middle east. The movements are driven by fear of change and a desire to destroy anything outside of the true believer's ken.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Whether Christians, Jews or Muslims, radical fundamentalism has taken root in all three of the world's patriarchal monotheistic faiths -- and it now threatens the world.

It has by now hardened to the most dangerous force on the planet: theocratic fascism, of theofascism for short.

Theofascism is dangerous because its adherents are driven by an extremist religious zeal -- and that no amount of persuasion can alter their worldview. In many respects, theofascists are as dangerous as the Nazis -- if not more so.

We see it today with the rise of the theofascist Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan and the equally theofascist Aryan Nations Church and Christian Identity in the United States, to name a few.

Historically, the oldest theofascist organization in the United States is the Ku Klux Klan. While the Klan is most notorius for its anti-black racism, the KKK is also known for its rabid anti-Semitism -- and, until recently, its anti-Catholic bigotry. Today, it's rabidly Islamophobic.

I've found it necessary to leave Christianity altogether and convert to Wicca, a nature-based neo-pagan religion, for my own spiritual peace of mind. Wicca isn't for everyone -- no religion is -- but you do have many spiritual pathway choices available to you if you feel a need to make a change in that regard.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

One thing is certain. Confusion reigns on planet Earth.

It won't make any difference who writes what book. People don't change, except in very rare instances. Frank Schaefer changed from a hard core Radical Right Zealot, to a softer more understanding human being who finally realized that their way, (the Radical Right) is systemically flawed.

Christianity is more of a cult than followers of God. Just before Jesus died he said, "It is finished". What he meant was that His Part was finished and everything else was turned over to God, His Father. Another problem with Christianity is that they stop at Jesus. The thrust of Jesus' teachings was to direct us to the Father John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me". It is the Father who is in control, not Jesus!!! The Father is the "main man" so to speak. According to the book of Revelation, Jesus is sitting on the right hand of the Father, not the other way around. Jesus is subordinate to the Father and the Father is beyond our understanding. So, when the clergy say it is the will of God, all they are really saying is, "Let MY will be done on Earth, only! That's why there is so much confusion. Every preacher is putting their own "spin" on the scripture, just like the politicians do. After all, Jesus did say, Luke 21:8 And he said, "Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them".

This is the world we live in. Get use to it. It is NOT going to change. Neither are we as a nation and as a world. Believers shall be changed when this happens, 1 Cor. 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed". And, not before. No one has it right. Don't let anyone make you think that they do. They are all blowing smoke and many of them know it, but "The Life" is too good for them to admit that they have it wrong.

Everyone likes to think that they "know", but we really don't "know"...the way to peace.

So, good luck folks. It's only going to get worse...much worse.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I have thought since I first heard Frank Schaeffer that he was overstating the influence of the Christian right in the Republican party. In 2008 they could influence the choice of the vice presidential candidate but not the top of the ticket. The money still talks louder than the theocrats. There are a whole lot of the economically challenged that vote with the rich in America because they have been sold the hype and are not evangelicals. I think it a virtually impossible task to sort out whether there are more from the racist camp or the evangelical.

Full disclosure, I once covered Bob Dylan's “With God on our side.” I am also one influenced by Joseph Campbell to believe that we need social institutions for burial, marriage and so forth. I heard one of the “New Atheists” on freethought radio and heard new tones of intolerance. Not to be feared, but a step closer to closed mindedness than I would like. Knowing that God does not exist does not sit any better than knowing God exists, I'm an agnostic pantheist.

In one radio interview Frances was more detailed on the improbable link the evangelicals preach between Obama and Hitler. The absence of logic of this connection became clearer after his explanation.

The Koran is the best weapon to use against jihadists. The teachings of Jesus are the best weapon to use against literalist Christians. Introducing a born-again to the gospel of Thomas helped step her a bit away from the Left Behind crowd. The history of the biblical canon, the accepted gospels as well as the rejected can bring insight. But when I brought up that I think the gospel writer John was insane, half of the canvassing born-agains just walked away. One thought he was John the Baptist and was a bit shocked when her friends concurred that John had never met Jesus.

When I learned that Mohammad had the Koran transcribed by a pair of scribes and had those transcripts sent to be copied apart from each other I concluded that he did so because the Christians had edited the teachings of Jesus so much in the first five centuries that he felt it prudent to protect his followers from the same priestly behavior. My son James studied the early writings and concluded the New Testament was edited seven different times in the first 500 years. The Roman empire changed very little when converted, Christianity changed allot.

My own input, as a pacifist Jew that is influenced by Jesus, includes that one should not use a pronoun for God. That helps to keep from personifying the Creator and avoids calling her a man.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I am currently reading the above titled book by Kevin Phillips. Based on what Phillips describes in his book, Christianity certainly is a probable basis for much of the hatred and spouting of lies (justifiable in their christian minds).

Phillips' book is one of the most disturbing and depressing that I've read. It makes me wish I were from anywhere but here. And it makes me glad I was not raised a christian, especially not that variety.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Reform christianity all you like, but you're still believing in an imaginary being.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Christians never asked the world's help or permission to believe, repent, and be saved. We never needed a chunk of this or a piece of that. Faith is what it is, whether in Allah, YHWH, or Jesus. People have babbled along just like the hired or jealous haters here today - they just serve to make the believer certain of what she/he is latching onto. So, actually, thanks! Thanks for the anger and the craziness.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Sorry, but this is a bunch of nonsense.

The connection between the haters and Christianity is purely contingent, accidental. It's not a matter of rescuing Christianity from a certain group, itis rescuing all true believers (of any stripe) and opening them up to rationality. Look around and you will find that just about everyone wants revenge--and justifies it or hopes for it on many different bases. The Islamic people wish for the return of the Mehdi who will destroy all infidels; many environmentalist doomers hope and pray for a major upheaval in the natural or cultural worlds to destroy the existing "evil" (Capitalists, bankers, militarists, or automobile fanatics) order, cleanse away the evil, and let us start over--though some doomers hope for ultimate extinction, which is the ultimate revenge.

The revenge feeling may be clothed for some in a certain form of Christianity, but it can be clothed in an infinite number of other belief systems--Marxism, Fascism, Primitivism, or what have you.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Schaeffer's conclusion represents a false choice. Frank presents the three-way choice of right-wing, evangelical fundamentalism vs. "fundamentalist" atheism vs. a somehow "softer" Christianity, as though those were the only choices in world-views. This is lunacy. There are myriad choices if you wish to take religion for $400... and that is what atheism would like to point out first: there are so many choices, and most of them suggest they represent the truth, and do so assertively without evidence... suggesting that it is unlikely that anyone has the corner on the market of truth. Atheism need not point one to a belief that no god exists, but, rather, to the open-minded approach that says, simply, "show me proof for this truth that you assert." It is not fundamentalist to profess that you are skeptical about the wild assertions made by others, and it is not, either, your responsibility to irrefutably support your skepticism... the burden always falls to the person making the assertion.

Furthermore, it is not possible for an atheist to be fundamentalist, for there is no standard text that defines (or claims to define) the history and the rituals of skepticism. It IS possible for an atheist to be evangelical... but such people are simply cheerleaders for critical thinking.

Frank is, admittedly, afraid to stray from some of the teachings of his upbringing. Some of those teachings were, evidently, beaten so deeply into him that he fears to let them go. It may well be that more agreeable Christians are the only ones likely to have a shot at reforming Christianity... but they won't accomplish it by persuading the wayward right-wingers that they are wrong... they'll have to simply promote their own message more loudly and hope that it is heard even more. And that's a problem, because it still isn't critical thinking. It's still just make-believe.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I think a lot of what we are seeing has to do with the fact that we're only 9 years into a new millennium and Millenarianist thinking has increased the anxiety of the Religious Right. The amount and fervor of ostentatious public piety and biblical literalism has as much to do with "Jesus is coming. Look busy!" as it has to with anything. If you even vaguely think Jesus is going to pop by any minute it makes sense you'd want to get "caught" mid-hosanna, sort of like how you'd put away the spit-balls and look studious if you knew your teacher was about to walk in the room. Throw in the widely reported (in error) prophecy that the world will end in 2012 according to the Mayan calender and you get a lot of paranoia.

The other dominant motive, as this article says, is fear/distrust of modernity and how to balance faith in light of science. Fundamentalism and Biblical Literalism are gauntlets thrown down in the name of faith, a last-ditch defense of attitudes and beliefs that are now out of favor. If you admit that any part of the Bible isn't literally true, such as Jonah living inside a whale or Noah putting all species of animals on a boat he built, then the whole thing is up for debate. If you're going to point to Leviticus and say with complete assurance that gays are an abomination, for example, you've backed yourself into a corner when it comes to saying "but He didn't really mean this part" elsewhere. Rather than face the anxiety of not having the rules be clear-cut it's better to cling to the idea that the Earth is only 6-10,000 years old and Adam and Eve rode dinosaurs because that's the only way to explain the fossil record. Science has outstripped biblical truth so, given a choice between observable science and all-the-eggs-in-one-basket Fundamentalist belief, they've chosen hard-line faith just in case God drops by for a site inspection, which apparently He is more apt to do when the calender changes over to a new century or millennium. Fear of being judged and found wanting begets finger-pointing and you end up where we are.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I am a principled person. I therefore believe I am responsible for what I know.

I know that Evangelical/Fundamentalist Xtianity is inherently violent, inherently evil, inherently without redemption (how ironic indeed). Once I discovered the "world" wasn't full of evil-doers hellbent on demonic repossession of my soul, I found that I also could not tolerate the "soft" versions of Xtianity. I do not believe Xtianity can be rescued. It is in fact, empirically a false premise. The soft version spawns the hard fundie ilk. Xtianity is still based on the belief that human beings cannot be responsible for themselves, that we cannot own our shit.

Sorry, Frank. I fully own my shit. I don't need sky gods and jeebus to do anything for me. I am part of a species, a relatively hairless primate who is self-aware and one animal amongst many sharing this physical world. Anything that abrogates or tries to abrogate my responsibility to myself and fellow creatures is off the table. Xtianity claims to be responsible but it uses an intellectually dishonest means and medium to do it. You cannot claim to be one thing whilst doing another. Well, you can but it's dishonest. It's like an owning-class president pretending to be one of me, the lower class worker, promising me long overdue and vital change. A Xtian would accept that deception incredibly taking it on "faith" that such a president will save him. How well is that working for us?

No, Frank. Xtianity is not good enough anymore. Maybe in the last century it was. Not anymore. There has been too much abuse, too much violence, too much hypocrisy. Never again. Never again!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I believe mankind will discover that religion and the concept of otherness are each separate products of fear of the unknown. Fear has been with us since the birth of the first thinking being. If we can teach children to be unafraid of the unknown, since this is a fear we no longer need, we may one day find both religion and otherness obsolete.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

It's so easy to categorize people into certain groups. Lets not forget the United States of America was created by men who were Christian and that 89% of the people in this country identify themselves as Christians.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I'm convinced that there are two classes of Christians: "Church Christians" and "Kingdom of God" Christians. Jesus often spoke and acted on behalf of the Kingdom of God. (for me it also takes in atheists who are really working and sacrificing for a better world; we might call them "anonymous Christians"!) I identify with liberation theology, with missionaries in Central and South America who struggled for and with the poor, who stood up against the corporate control of the rich (down there, and the people up here who make so much of their money controlling and robbing resources from them and bribing their dictator governments). It bothers me to hear so many "Christians" who speak of love but practice hateful doctrines that judge others, try to impose their way of thinking on them, and favor wars of oppression, violence and capital punishment...especially against the poor. Doesn't sound much like Jesus to me!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

And so do Christians.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

While I like Frank's perspective (and liked his book Crazy For God), I disagree a little with his characterization of evangelicals. Like Frank, I grew up an evangelical and remained one until after college. Now I'm mainline Protestant. But from my experience, evangelicals are not always as simplistic as Frank portrays (though that's a caricature that some fit into) or as monolithic.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I'm a teaparty protestor and one of the more offensive sign holders. And although it's the only thing you can come up with, it's not because I'm racist. Far from though I'm happy to see the left clinging to that term because it means they're desperate.

I ALSO DO NOT BELIEVE IN JESUS. Let me repeat that, I do not believe in Jesus and if he did exist he was a liar. I don't believe in any man made religion.

So there you have it, an atheist that opposes Obama on almost everything. Rare exception? Think again. You'll just have to go back to calling everyone a racist.

Obama is failing by the minute...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Evangelicals and fundamentalists may feel threatened as they are "left behind," but so should ALL religious people. Think about it... As science explains more and more, religion is losing its footing.

First the Bible was the inerrant word of god and not to be ignored or challenged. However, as discoveries are made, such as proof that the earth is much older than 6000 years, etc., suddenly the infallible word of god "has to be taken metaphorically," or evolution comes along and now "creationism" becomes the fad, or it's all explained away with "god works in mysterious ways!"

Simply reigning in extremists by so-called moderate Christians is NOT going to prevent disillusionment of average people towards religion in general. Science will continue in its quest for knowledge and increasingly provide proof that the Bible and religions are nothing more than Bronze-age myths and superstitions to help explain things thousands of years ago and to control the masses. It will become increasingly difficult to "faithfully" believe in biblical superstitions and myths, much the same as trying to believe in a Grimm's fairy tale or Han's Christian Andersen fable or Jonah and the Whale (absolutely fictitious).

The religious will no doubt feel threatened and attempt to discredit science, logic, and reason; be forced to moderate (as many are currently doing); and/or try to reign in the most extreme churches so as to appear more reasonable as a whole and slow down the loss of congregation members; but in the distant future, they will increasingly fade away.

Where knowledge ends, religion begins. By Benjamin Disraeli.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

　　Music has charms to soothe a savage breast, to soften rocks or bend a knotted oak.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I believe that religious people are seriously suffering from delusions and would benefit from working with a licensed mental health professional. Religion robs people of their sanity and ability to reason, and disconnects them from the beauty of the world around them and all that nature has created. It also distances them from their families as their delusions and disconnection from the real world grow. The best thing that can be done for anyone is to keep religion away from children and out of the public. Religion is exploitative of the weak sheep who's lives are ruled by ignorance and fear. Those sheep are missing out on the true wonders of the real world by wasting their lives with meaningless nonsense.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Since Barack Obama claims to be a Christian, many of the posts below suggest in very strong language that he must be delusional, as must be all people who believe in a transcendent power existing in the form of a "person" outside the constraints of time and space. If not, he's lieing about something that one shouldn't lie about, which should disqualify him from holding office. Personally, I don't think religious faith is delusional, nor could I make sense of the reality I inhabit without mine--although certain thoughts and actions that sometimes stem from it could be characterized in that way. But if it is, or if The President has been hiding behind a fundamental untruth, how can those of you who are non-believers justify support of his presidency?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Mr. Schieffer - I've become an admirer of yours - you are one of the most reasonable voices out there on this subject. Plus you have the added edge of being an insider. You know exactly what is going on with the evangelical movement.

It should be obvious to literally everyone by now that no one can dictate people's inner lives. It's been tried. The USSR tried and so did China and the result was ultimately an outbreak of religious activity. No matter how hard the atheists preach at people it will not change the human race's inner life. You are proof that what changes one's inner life is an open mind and education. Thanks for you perspective on this issue - it's definitely one of the most important things we have to deal with.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I am a Christian that does not find Jesus in Evangelicalism at all. Jesus was not a Right-Winger and left us 'Peace' and 'Love" of our fellow man and we are to do unto our fellow man as we would have done unto us. Do what you would do to you. Praying is good then action is needed. Faith without works is dead.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

There's probably one thing that a Christian fundamentalist hates worse than a heathen and that's a heretic. Growing up Catholic, I was led to believe that Protestants were worse than Satanists (Jews were Christ-killers and anything not biblical wasn't even mentioned). Left to themselves, the various fundamentalist Christian sects would probably rip each other to shreds. It's only the demonizing of some other outsider (liberals, gays, feminists, Democrats) that lets them pretend they have any unity whatsoever. I can't point to any hard facts right now, but I consider it likely that, in the last 2,000 years, more Christians have been persecutede, tortured and killed by other Christians than by non-.

If there is a deity who is supposed to be our father, it would be wise to consider that in order to be emotionally whole, children eventually grow up, leave home, and make their own way in the world. Maybe it's time humanity grew up and started making our own way for a change.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I've been reading the Atheists posts with interest, and I find their certainty that there is no god as disturbing as the "christians" certainty there is one.

I have no problems with science and reason, and they are very powerful tools in the right hands, but they are tools nevertheless, and just as much as I would never worship a hammer because it does such a good job with nails,neither will I worship science and reason.

There is a strong spiritual element to humans, and perhaps to other creatures too, which is mysterious and at least at the minute unknowable. In my life I've found it very profitable to explore that spiritual realm, and see the wisdom there, using my mind and my intelligence to understand what I find there. We need to acknowledge the spiritual: where humans go wrong is giving up their authority to interpret it to priests.

I agree entirely with Shaeffers point that there are two threads in religion: for years now I've called one institutional the other mystical. Those who follow the institutional thread have rules and certainties and hatreds and wars and are only interested in differences and power. Those who follow the mystical path have no certainty, explore places where there are few rules, know that love is the only way to a spiritual life, and have friends and companions from many traditions: jews,christians,muslims, buddhists, jains,hindus, and yes even atheists

Hope this helps this very interesting and thoughtful discussion

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Can we take Christianity back from the Christians? It like can we take Patriotism back from these New Patriots? The answer to both questions is YES! And it starts in the same place, the public forum and public enlightenment. Until we start facing up to those who would hijack the Christian faith and this nation as one people, we will never change this argument.

As I listen to the Fundamentalist Christians I sometimes feel like they read the Old Testament with the depiction of a vengeful God, and just skipped to Revelations, simply skipping over the parts about the teaching of Jesus where he depicted a gentle, loving God for mankind. The message of these people is twisted just as the message of Jesus was twisted by politicians and Jewish zealots to make it one of hate. (And a small footnote - the racism they preach goes back to the belief that blacks are descended from Ham who was driven out of Israel for transgressing against God and marked by the color of his skin. They are not even following the idea of forgiveness of sin that Jesus preached, but rather the ancient Jewish racism.)

Religious education often begins in the home, and when it is twisted by those who choose to hate, it is no longer Christianity. Patriotism starts in the same place, but when it is twisted by hate and not addressed by education, it is no longer Patriotism. It also become hate.

For centuries in this nation we have had dueling ideologies about both what it means to be a Patriot and what it means to be religious. Both are based on a strong spiritual connection to this land, her people, and our history. Somewhere in the last half of the last century, we lost our way on both courses. It has led to a degradation of our education system, our ability to partake in public discourse, and to offer compassion, forgiveness, and understanding to those we disagree with on all subjects, religious and civil.

As I start my journey across this country next month, I find myself wondering if I will make it to DC or whether those radical fundamentalist Christians will do me harm or even kill me. I am a nobody, but I feel strongly that it is important for me to stand up for this nation and the rights of her people, regardless of their religious beliefs.

I believe that while they are shouting hate they are not listening, and I can, by my example, try to stop their shouts and hear their words. I can make them feel that they are part of this nation, not isolated from its people by letting them talk, and then quietly teaching them the truth. We spend so much time shouting that we do not listen, and it is time we all listened, even to those we do not agree with.

I have learned much over the course of my lifetime, some good and some bad, but the one thing I have learned is that when we learn to hate (and we all learn this lesson), no matter what our beliefs, we learn to stop listening. Just watch someone like Glenn Beck in action (I know this is tough). He never let's anyone who disagrees with him finish a sentence. The same is true of the Limbaughs, the Cantors, the Clintons. They do not let you disagree because they know that if they do, they will lose the argument to reason, patience, and logical words.

I cannot offer solutions to people, nor would I actually try to, but I can offer them the opportunity to come up with them themselves. In order to take back Christianity (the real, New Testament teachings of Christ type) and Patriotism (the original, American support of flag and country type), we need to go back to what we do best as individuals - listen and reach out to those with whom we disagree. That is what my journey will be about, and that is where we start to find solutions and answers to the questions posed. Please join me.
Let Freedom Ring.Community

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The confused right wing are demanding an audience with God.

In reading about the philosophy of religions in these comments, how does any of it explain miracles?

Existence cannot be logically explained yet by Religion, Science nor Psychology. So, is existence a delusion too? Sell those meds, sell those meds! Three birds with one stone. What will the name of these disorders be? Sci-phobia for the far right fundamentalists? Miracle avoidance behavior on the side of the so-called Atheists? PsyOps ADD? All in the names of remote medicine, disguised as health care.

Jesus said, “God is Spirit and you must worship God in Spirit”. The original reference to God was The One. The first woman was Lilith, not Eve. The angel Gabriel was female. Jesus spent his childhood in Egypt.

Spirituality is denied by all of these fundamentalists who do not practice what they preach and also by those Atheistic psychiatrists, who are taught that denial of spirit is sanity. Also, what about dreams? What are those all about? Revelations was a dream.

Meanwhile the Buddhists, now repackaged as Communist China, acting as a collective dictatorship, is enslaving the world as an industrial mob, while consuming its resources.

Buddha abandoned his wife and children and wandered off to be with himself and God and obtain a following. Jesus did the same thing. So did Mohammed. So did Moses. All of these men changed the World and what they all had in common were miracles attributed to their lives. There was obviously something spectacular about them and they all achieved great power from low circumstances.

At the heart of Atheism is the denial of miracles, now often referred to as unexplained supernatural phenomena. Existence itself is a miracle, so is molecular life according to scientific proof of Creationism by a molecular biologist, and so is outer space. No-one can begin to explain how something occurred from nothing out there in the vastness of the stars. Nothing is a concept that cannot exist if something is here to contemplate it, like our minds.

The “rainbow of religions” and beliefs which make up life history referred to by Sister Lauren, shows the fallacy of only seeing 2 sides to any equation, equality itself being incorrect. Scientifically, if there were equality there would be no movement. This requires a movement of extra electrons. In the lost book of Thomas, Jesus when asked; “What is the Nature of God?”, Jesus responded, “Movement and Rest”. How amazingly scientific! The parable of the 10 Talents was clearly not about equality.

The Armageddonists are trying to gain World power, they are conquerors and enslavers with a Worldwide domination agenda. They are demanding an audience with God, trying to challenge God to show them a miracle by stopping them from destroying the World. Oh, and they have a timeframe, referring to ancient numerical theories of 2012.

The worst part is, they are not making their own decisions, they are indoctrinated into the mind control cult begun by Reverend Sun Myong Mun for an East versus West, Men versus Women, Rich versus Poor, Shamanist agenda. This is not by religious means but by communications technology means. Perhaps his mothers’ Shaman spirit will argue with God to save her own sons’ victims from Hell on Earth.

What ever happened to the Constitution? Remember that? It does not fare well in the last battle of the minds. No person does well in Virtual Confinement. Long live AutoLaw!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

You imply that people should make a choice about their religious beliefs based on the current political climate. Most people adopt or don't adopt religious beliefs based on their personality, experience and upbringing, not because of politics or current social events. I'm not going to be persuaded to become religious because you argue that it's a better political strategy than being an agnostic or an atheist any more than I was persuaded into being an atheist by politics or social events. I don't believe simply because it's not reasonable or plausible to me. It's that simple and I have no desire to "use" my philosophical view for personal or political gain. It simply is. While the right has made it political, politics was never the catalyst for my point of view and I'm sure the same is true for most people who are religious.
All I see from this is the evangelist in you using a more clever strategy and liberal argument for promoting faith over lack of faith and I am tired of anybody who is compelled to evangelize their personal perspective, religious or not. Just let it be and fight only to keep any religious doctrine out of the hands of power and law so that everyone may be free to believe what they want.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Dear Mr. Schaefer:
One of the good things about the internet is that so many people can express their opinions. This is also one of the bad things about it. I must say that your missive almost took my breath away, but I have had experience with this from dealing with the public sector. I think that your viewpoint is invalid & your true devotion is to the common secular religion who views the Anointed One in the WH as the Second Coming. Perhaps you need to take a sabbatical & just get your head straight for a change.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

This story is very informative and very well written by Blackpool Hotels.

britannia hotel
hotels in blackpool
Britannia Hotels
norbreck castle hotel
britannia hotels

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Meanwhile the Buddhists, now repackaged as Communist China, acting as a collective dictatorship, is enslaving the world as an industrial mob, while consuming its resources.

Buddha abandoned his wife and children and wandered off to be with himself and God and obtain a following. Jesus did the same thing. So did Mohammed. So did Moses. All of these men changed the World and what they all had in common were miracles attributed to their lives. There was obviously something spectacular about them and they all achieved great power from low circumstances.

At the heart of Atheism is the denial of miracles, now often referred to as unexplained supernatural phenomena. Existence itself is a miracle, so is molecular life according to scientific proof of Creationism by a molecular biologist, and so is outer space. No-one can begin to explain how something desperate housewives s06e03 subtitles великий сфикс гизы остров гонконг seropol5 occurred from nothing out there in the vastness of the stars. Nothing is a concept that cannot exist if something is here to contemplate it, like our minds.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Natural Male Enhancement Pills
Do Male Enhancement Pills Work
How to Increase Sexual Stamina
Best Male Enhancement Pills

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]